web analytics

MICHAEL O’LEARY IS RIGHT

By Pete Moore On February 22nd, 2020

You don’t look for a dog in a cattery.

Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary has been criticised for saying Muslim men should be profiled at airports.

The chief executive told the Times that “males of a Muslim persuasion” who are single and travelling alone pose the largest terror threat to airlines.

Note the typical BBC spin. It often doesn’t report what was first said or done but the reaction to it. It does this when it wants the audience to adopt the same reaction. “Michael O’Leary is a bad man and muslims are good and it would be unfair to profile them” is the actual message. It is a common method of BBC propaganda.

But the message is wrong and Michael O’Leary is right. It’s a measure of his self-confidence that he said something so obviously correct it’s guaranteed to have the left spitting mad. Which it did. Muslim men should be profiled at airports (and wherever young Western girls are).

141 Responses to “MICHAEL O’LEARY IS RIGHT”

  1. But I feel so safe after waiting with all the other terrorists at “airport security “ while they frisk search that white 90 year old woman sitting in a wheelchair, or frisking 9 year old little white girls.

  2. And Michéal O’Leary is right.

    The Irish put up with it years ago.

    Perhaps this is what is needed for Islam to clean up its act from within, because nothing else has worked so far.

  3. Profiling of Muslim men by airlines increases the chances of a terrorist attack against airlines, not diminishing it. Employing methods that single out a group are more likely to lead to the alienation and radicalisation of that group. They will also then nurture a sense of (legitimate) grievance against the airline making that airline a bigger target to that group.

    So O’Leary’s comments were not right.

  4. El Al profiles, And they don’t mince words about it

    Despite the fact that they are the number one target of every bad guy on the face of the earth, they had a pretty good record in recent decades

  5. Phantom.

    Correct.

    And AFAIK, El Al have never had a single incident.

  6. “And AFAIK, El Al have never had a single incident.”

    Neither have most airlines. And they have largely rolled back their racial profiling, and have been warned about their conduct by the Israeli Supreme Court. Now all passengers, regardless of background, are subject to full vetting by El Al.

  7. O’Leary is right about this. But what amuses me is that certainly at Heathrow. We employ young Muslim men in airport security to protect us from other young Muslim men. What would O’Leary make of that.

  8. Israelis are Pretty smart

    I will imagine that they continue to profile.

    The know what AQ Hamas and BDS has in mind for all of them

    So please continue to fantasize

    //

    I do agree that every passenger without exception should be treated as a potential terrorist though. For reasons that I have given many times on these pages

  9. Every good police officer, every good detective who has ever lived, profiles

    Everyone reading this profiles.

    Anyone who for a minute says otherwise is a complete liar

  10. “Every good police officer, every good detective who has ever lived, profiles”

    And so does every bad one. And those who base it all on those assumptions let genuine criminals go free and terrorise and brutalise innocent people because they “know” they are guilty.

  11. Do you profile?

    Save you the trouble yes you do

    Who said that a cop who profiles is basing everything on the Things that are apart from the evidence?

    You’re making many errors here

  12. Define profiling.

    If a police officer decides that a black guy is more likely to have committed the crime and thus only pays attention to the black guys then not only is he profiling but he’s a bad cop.

  13. You really detest BDS Phantom don’t you?

  14. “Define profiling”

    Airing “Crime Watch” on BBC seven nights a week.

  15. O’Leary is an obnoxious gobshite. But he makes a fair point.

    And all Muslim converts should be put on watch-lists, no exceptions. Yesterday yet another one was convicted of serious terrorist offences:

    “Muslim-convert who became Britain’s ‘first female suicide bomb plotter’, 36, admits ISIS-inspired plan to blow up St Paul’s Cathedral and a London hotel in bid to ‘kill as many as possible’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8028763/Female-ISIS-supporter-36-admits-terror-bomb-plot-St-Pauls.html

  16. “Muslim-convert who became Britain’s ‘first female suicide bomb plotter’, 36, admits ISIS-inspired plan to blow up St Paul’s Cathedral and a London hotel in bid to ‘kill as many as possible’

    Yes Peter.

    But in all fairness to the halfwit, she is citing mental illness as a defence.

    She does appear on the face of it to possess the IQ of a cabbage.

    No 72 year old virgin waiting in Valhalla waiting for her after all.

  17. Muslim-convert who became Britain’s ‘first female suicide bomb plotter’, 36, admits ISIS-inspired plan to blow up St Paul’s Cathedral and a London hotel in bid to ‘kill as many as possible’

    Peace, love, and tolerance?

    These low-life halfwitted useful Islamic oafs simply must be reading a completely different version of the Koran than many, many of their Muslim brothers & sisters.

    Just how stupid are they?

  18. *useful idiot

  19. Do you profile potential threats to you in any way as you walk around Belfast or London?

    Everyone knows the true answers but the ones given and the ones to come are amusing.

  20. I think that the urge to be a jihadist comes before the urge to convert to the ROP. That’s why so many converts become terrorists, it’s a means to an end.

  21. O’Leary is obnoxious.

    But he is one of the best businessmen of his generation, who has done much good to all European travelers and to his shareholders.

  22. Peter

    Thats why there was a noted surge to the religion of Mohammad Atta after 9/11

  23. Yes, but let’s not forget that the biggest terrorist attack this year was by a German right wing fanatic who killed nine muslims on Wednesday:

    “HANAU, Germany — In the German town of Hanau, a longtime immigrant destination with decades of coexistence between people of different origins, residents were left with the fear Thursday that their community was targeted after a gunman shot and killed nine people of foreign background.”

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/germanys-immigrant-community-hanau-reeling-attack-69107250

  24. “Do you profile potential threats to you in any way as you walk around Belfast or London?”

    I don’t have a gun. I don’t have handcuffs. I don’t have the authority to detain people. Thus what I do is actually irrelevant. But when people who do have guns, do have handcuffs, do have the authority to detain people, and use that to abuse innocent people who have done nothing wrong but have the wrong religion or the wrong skin colour then it increases the chances that the community that said person comes from will become disenchanted with the law, disenchanted with society etc… And when they do society becomes less safe.

  25. You profile and so do I .

    And so does everyone that you know.

  26. but have the wrong religion or the wrong skin colour then it increases the chances that the community that said person comes from will become disenchanted with the law, disenchanted with society etc… And when they do society becomes less safe.

    What are the demographics of stabbings in London?

  27. Seamus has a tip that a yardie grime gang is planning on knifing their rivals n ting innit blud.

    He checks out the local Women’s Institute first. It might be them!

  28. //Phantom, on February 22nd, 2020 at 8:52 PM Said:

    You profile and so do I .
    And so does everyone that you know.//

    Some of the Irish on ATW don’t appear to have any problems or qualms profiling the “Brits”?

  29. Yes and he thinks that a four retired women walking out of a reunion lunch are an equal threat to any other group of four people

    To think otherwise would be so “wicked”

  30. And racist.

    Yawn…

  31. He is a smart guy

    Way smarter than he has been letting on with this subject.

  32. Seamus, on February 22nd, 2020 at 7:47 PM Said:
    “As Noel says, when in doubt, blame the Brits!”
    To be fair normally not that far wrong.

    No profiling there then?

    Isn’t that a tad racist?

    What a bigot.

  33. “As Noel says, when in doubt, blame the Brits!”

    As an Irishman with nothing but love and admiration for our astonishingly fabulous British neighbours, I find this typical Irish bigotry embarrassing.

  34. As an Englishman I am seriously proud of the never ending benevolence and kind hearted abundance of generosity in bailing out our Irish neighbours when they were in the shit in 2010.

    Don’t mention it Paddies, you’re welcome.

  35. You bailed out your banks…

  36. //Phantom, on February 22nd, 2020 at 9:11 PM Said:

    He is a smart guy
    Way smarter than he has been letting on with this subject./;

    And you phantom, at times, are just too kind.

  37. Phantom, on February 22nd, 2020 at 9:32 PM Said:
    You bailed out your banks…

    Our banks yes, not the German banks. to the tune of 200 billion.

    But the Irish coughed up anyway.

    And so will the next three generations of Irish.

    Well done Leo.

    Take your well deserved place at the Brussels trough.

  38. he’s been brainwashed by an army of latte sipping trendoid professors

    There is hope for him yet.

  39. “And so does everyone that you know.”

    As I said I don’t have a gun. I don’t have handcuffs. I don’t have the authority to detain people. Thus what I do is actually irrelevant. But when people who do have guns, do have handcuffs, do have the authority to detain people, and use that to abuse innocent people who have done nothing wrong but have the wrong religion or the wrong skin colour then it increases the chances that the community that said person comes from will become disenchanted with the law, disenchanted with society etc… And when they do society becomes less safe.

    If I make incorrect assumptions it doesn’t harm anyone, thus doesn’t lead to collapse in support for law and order in minority communities. When police officers do it becomes more problematic.

    “What are the demographics of stabbings in London?”

    Why don’t you tell us?

    “Seamus has a tip that a yardie grime gang is planning on knifing their rivals n ting innit blud.

    He checks out the local Women’s Institute first. It might be them!”

    Following intelligence is not profiling. It is following intelligence. However thinking every black guy is a murderer in waiting, and every brown guy is a terrorist in waiting, will not make anyone safer.

    “Yes and he thinks that a four retired women walking out of a reunion lunch are an equal threat to any other group of four people”

    I think these sorts of attitudes caused the murderers of Stephen Lawrence to get away with murder for nearly 20 years. Because the “institutionally racist” Metropolitan Police Service had “an unthinking assumption that all young black people are potential criminals”.

    “he’s been brainwashed by an army of latte sipping trendoid professors”

    Name one of them.

  40. What are the demographics of stabbings in London?”
    Why don’t you tell us?

    Blacks.

  41. “Blacks.”

    All of them?

  42. What are the demographics of stabbings in London?”
    Why don’t you tell us?

    Seamus.

    Do you agree?

    Why don’t you tell us?

  43. Seamus.

    Vast majority..yes.

    Absolutely.

  44. Who said that you have a gun

    We said that when you walk down the streets of Belfast, Dublin, or London at night that you quietly profile every stranger that crosses your path.

    And you do.

    Anyone that did not do that would be a bit of an idiot, not long for this earth.

  45. “Vast majority..yes.”

    What percentage?

    “Who said that you have a gun”

    You are comparing my actions with that of a police officer, or another form of law enforcement. The two cannot be comparable due to the reasons I listed.

  46. Seamus.

    I would say over two thirds.

    Why so shy now reciting percentages?

  47. So we agree that you profile but that you are not a police officer.

    Well, we are begrudgingly getting there, an inch a century.

  48. Seamus ha no issues profiling Brits?

  49. “You profile and so do I .
    And so does everyone that you know.”

    People do a lot of stupid things, especially when they are scared, and this is one of them.

    When you profile, you create an easy route through security, by definition. Creating an easy route through security is stupid. That’s why we don’t do that. Everyone’s bags go through the scanner. Yes even the little old lady’s.

    You’re not going to be killed by a terrorist or any stranger anyway. You’ll much more likely die of heart disease or cancer or assembling furniture. You’d be better off profiling the food on your plate, or get some exercise.

  50. What is meant in practice by profiling ?

    Is it the habit of automatically fully searching all individuals of a certain colour, faith or national origin, or is it the use of numerous layers of experience to identify individuals of any colour or background whose behaviour and movements trigger concerns. The former is a blunt weapon, the latter a precise instrument.

  51. “I would say over two thirds.”

    According to a freedom of information request it is 48% black, 24% white, 10% Asian, and 18% mixed or unknown. Victims are 43% black, 35% white, 11% Asian, and 10% mixed or unknown.

    “So we agree that you profile but that you are not a police officer.”

    I don’t brutalise blacks. I don’t brutalise Muslims. So unintentional prejudices are irrelevant unless they are able to be put into action. And if one has unintentional prejudices the right thing to do is fight back against them. Not just surrender to internal base racism.

  52. In this paper, we show that since CAPS uses profiles to select passengers for increased scrutiny, it is actually less secure than systems that employ random searches. In particular, we present an algorithm called Carnival Booth that demonstrates how a terrorist cell can defeat the CAPS system.

    https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Carnival-Booth%3A-An-Algorithm-for-Defeating-the-Chakrabarti-Strauss/75f3cfed9c34555f631a89d2b2eca67cc409282a

  53. It is a ” prejudice ” to see more of a threat from a 19 year male street tough than from a 60 year old woman walking her dog?

    What have they done to you

  54. Does ‘profiling’ mean that others that don’t fit the rofile are subject to less stringet security checks?

    Surely such a policy is a recipe for disaster?

  55. “It is a ” prejudice ” to see more of a threat from a 19 year male street tough than from a 60 year old woman walking her dog?”

    Nope. It is prejudice to assume that the 19 year old is a threat and to arrest them, or search them, just for that reason. It is prejudice to assume every black guy is just another nigger with a knife.

  56. Such racist language.

    How edgy.

  57. No one said to arrest anyone for no reason.

    You’ve been programmed to think that this is what profilers do, or what they think like.

  58. “Such racist language.”

    Too close to home? Or is that another thing I’ve been “brainwashed” with “by an army of latte sipping trendoid professors”.

    Better latte sipping professors than the Klan.

  59. It is prejudice to assume every black guy is just another nigger with a knife.

    If there’s a few of them and they’re giving off aggressive signals through their dress and and actions then it’s not prejudice but a fair and reasonable assumption.

    People who conform to a stereotype must expect others to react to that stereotype.

  60. Sorry, Allan. Not OK.

    The trendoids would be happier if Giuliani / Bloomberg had allowed large numbers of murders to continue unabated every year rather than correct it, as they actually did do.

    The only think that Bloomberg did wrong was to apologize for stop and frisk.

  61. Stop and frisk was ended years ago. And the murder numbers stayed low. Would suggest that stop and frisk didn’t work in the first place.

  62. “If there’s a few of them and they’re giving off aggressive signals through their dress and and actions then it’s not prejudice but a fair and reasonable assumption.”

    So every black guy with a hoodie is now a criminal? Or even a majority? Or even anything more than a tiny proportion?

  63. “Sorry, Allan. Not OK.”

    You are the one channeling Allan on this thread. I find his racist bigotry is unacceptable. I find your racist bigotry unacceptable as well.

  64. So every black guy with a hoodie is now a criminal?

    What is this red herring?

    A lone black boy in a hoodie is a loner looking for a gang because he never had a father and needs male camaraderie.

    If there’s a few of them and they’re giving off aggressive signals through their dress and actions then it’s not prejudice but a fair and reasonable assumption … that you need to cross the road.

  65. The Guiliani/Bratton/Bloomberg methods broke the back of crime here.

    I saw it up close – before, during and after it had been accomplished.

    It didn’t happen in a day. And those accomplishments aren’t permanent, either.

  66. What aggressive signals does their dress or actions give off?

  67. “And those accomplishments aren’t permanent, either.”

    And yet when stop and frisk was ended crime numbers didn’t skyrocket back to previous levels. In fact they continued to drop. Because stop and frisk was a counter productive measure that harmed relationships between the community and the police.

    See the relationship between the NYPD and black communities? Is it good or is it bad? And if it is bad do you think that harms the ability to successfully police black areas?

  68. Who said that it would skyrocket in a day?

    You are hysterical and on script on all of this.

    The number of murders went up in 2018 and went up a lot — 8.7% — in 2019.

    That’s not OK

  69. “Who said that it would skyrocket in a day?”

    It hasn’t been a day. It’s been nearly 7 years. How much lag is there going to be?

    “The number of murders went up in 2018 and went up a lot — 8.7% — in 2019.”

    It went down in 2018. 289 murders, down from 292 in 2017. And yes it went up in 2019. Still lower than any year of Mike Bloomberg’s mayoralty. And much lower than any year of Guiliani’s. Bloomberg’s best was 332. Guiliani’s best 633. 2019’s was 311.

    In Bloomberg’s best term as mayor there were 1,795 murders in New York City. In Guiliani’s second term (his best murder wise) there were 2,626 murders (excluding 9/11).

    For all his faults in Bill de Blasio’s first term there were 1,307 murders. Murders have gone up 2 years in his 6 years as Mayor. Bloomberg saw murders go up 4 years out of 12. Same ratio.

    So by what metric (other than his not hating black guys – which seems to be your major disagreement with him) has Bill de Blasio failed where Guiliani and Bloomberg succeeded?

  70. My personal opinion, I really don’t think Muslims should be singled out, because that’s just going to cause division and hatred.
    Why not do thorough security checks on everyone.

    You guys do realise that most Muslims are not actually bad people don’t you?
    I’ve worked with Muslims in Leicester, Bradford in Bolton extensively, and the vast majority of them are just as disgusted with the more extreme element as you are.

  71. Seamus, on February 22nd, 2020 at 10:20 PM Said:

    “I would say over two thirds.”

    According to a freedom of information request it is 48% black, 24% white, 10% Asian, and 18% mixed or unknown. Victims are 43% black, 35% white, 11% Asian, and 10% mixed or unknown.

    What was the date of that FOI?

    Have you got a link.

  72. Paul,

    “ Does ‘profiling’ mean that others that don’t fit the rofile are subject to less stringet security checks?”

    Yup. It can mean nothing else.

    “Surely such a policy is a recipe for disaster?”

    Yup.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line

  73. Why not do thorough security checks on everyone.

    That happens. Profiling doesn’t mean that other groups have less thorough checks. It simply means applied procedures based on known traits and characteristics. People are profiled without knowing it, all the time.

    I spent years as a teenager and young man in the 80s and early 90s going to away football matches. I was profiled every week because I had the same profile as a lot of hooligans. No problem.

  74. It would be terrible if one day Young Muslim males had an inordinate amount of alienated terrorists among them.

    Someone whispers in ear.

    Oh yeah, they already do.

  75. The opponents of “profiling” think it is the exclusive tactic, it isnt. No one is suggesting profile only and exclude all others.

  76. The opponents of “profiling” think it is the exclusive tactic, it isnt. No one is suggesting profile only and exclude all others

    What exactly does it mean Mahons? I find it a very ambiguous term.

    If for example all are subjected to ‘profiling’ then what’s the fuss? If no singular group aren’ signalled out for special treatmeant doesn’t profiling then become just a non contentious security tactic?

  77. Words have meaning. Profiling everyone to “profiling” isn’t profiling. It is suicide in the service of political correctness.

  78. A bit of a word salad there without actually explaining what profiling is.

  79. As Frank pointed out (with evidence) profiling reduces effectiveness of security, not to mention making radicalisation easier by engendering a legitimate sense of grievance in people who are victimised by it.

    So not profiling is not “suicide in the service of political correctness”. Profiling is suicide in the service of casual racism.

  80. Profiling is suicide in the service of casual racism.

    Islam isn’t a race. This week a British convert stabbed someone in a mosque while another was convicted of planning to detonate herself in St Paul’s Cathedral.

    The common denominator is Islam, not race. If a British convert was getting on my flight then yes, I want security to have an extra good look at him first.

    A Tommy Robinson supporter was in the Question Time audience this week. Of course the left was outraged that profiling didn’t weed her out first. I suspect that some of those who are opposed to profiling for Islamic terrorists at airports would be happy for profiling to keep ideological opponents off the airwaves and social media.

  81. “Islam isn’t a race.”

    It isn’t. So in terms of Islam replace racist with xenophobia or sectarianism. All largely the same thing if you want to play the semantic games.

  82. Pete Moore,

    That happens. Profiling doesn’t mean that other groups have less thorough checks. It simply means applied procedures based on known traits and characteristics. People are profiled without knowing it, all the time.

    You’re wrong to claim profiling doesn’t necessarily mean other groups have less thorough security checks. I was reading an article in the guardian last week that was talking about increased profiling at airports, alienating certain religious and ethnic groups because of increased security checks on those groups alone.

    I spent years as a teenager and young man in the 80s and early 90s going to away football matches. I was profiled every week because I had the same profile as a lot of hooligans. No problem.

    So if you actually knew you were getting profiled, that goes against the point you’re making which is the profiling is done in secret.

    I’m more than happy for them to do as many secret checks on me or anybody else as they want.

  83. I suspect that some of those who are opposed to profiling for Islamic terrorists at airports would be happy for profiling to keep ideological opponents off the airwaves and social media.

    Once again, I don’t know any of the so called liberals or lefties or whatever you want to call them on ATW, who would support keeping anybody off the airwaves or social media whatever their political view.

  84. I’m more than happy for them to do as many secret checks on me or anybody else as they want

    I can’t remember a singular time travelling through Britain on connecting flights to other places when I wasn’t stopped and questioned for differing periods of time. As long as it didn’t interfere with the travel plans it was very much a minor hassle.

    I don’t know any of the so called liberals or lefties or whatever you want to call them on ATW, who would support keeping anybody off the airwaves or social media whatever their political view.

    Dave, the extreme right love to play the persecuted victim.

  85. Pete,

    “Profiling doesn’t mean that other groups have less thorough checks.”

    Tell that to Michael O’Leary then. As according to him, it does mean that. I guess you need to update your post headline.

    And it clearly does mean that anyway. We all know it and we can even read the profiling fans saying it. What are you “profiling” for if not to do additional checks on the ones who fit the profile, and therefore less checks on those that don’t?

  86. Same as a doctor, pay attention to the people with symptoms.

  87. Frank O’Dwyer –

    And it clearly does mean that anyway.

    Of course it doesn’t mean that. Security checks are not a zero-sum thing. Enhanced checks on some do not necessarily mean fewer checks on others. No authorities would countenance that.

    Dave Alton –

    That some groups (muslims) might be alienated is neither here nor there. Such concerns can and should be ignored. This is the thinking that led to tens of thousands of British girls being jihad-raped. Yes it is.

    The idea that the religionists which produce an inordinate amount of terrorists and terrorist sypathisers should be treated exactly the same as everyone else is drivel. The idea that they should be treated exactly the same as everyone else because they might not like it is drivel. The idea that their horrible ideas, and Islam is a horrible set of ideas, should be treated no differently, is drivel.

  88. If you are as concerned with a pit bull as a pekingese perhaps you are asking for it.

  89. Seamus and Frank think that three Muslims from Palestine represent an identical threat potential as three ladies from the bath England knitting society

    Their minds are made up, there is no reasoning with them on this. It’s like talking to Patrick on the economy under Obama

    There should be rigorous security to all travelers. Every passenger should be seen as a potential terrorist, even an infant in the stroller, For reasons that I’ve stated here 1 million times

    A doctor or a dentist now typically regards every patient As a potential carrier of a contagious disease, the security at the airport should have a similar view

    But all police profile. All People profile. Anyone who says that he does not profile strangers is a complete liar. And there isn’t anything wrong with that

  90. Phantom, on February 23rd, 2020 at 2:48 PM Said:
    Seamus and Frank think that three Muslims from Palestine represent an identical threat potential as three ladies from the bath England knitting society

    If the profiling was targeted primarily at little old white ladies instead of Muslims, Seamus and Frank would absolutely have no issues with that. in fact they might even possibly encourage it.

    Especially if those little old white ladies were British.

  91. Pete,

    “ Enhanced checks on some do not necessarily mean fewer checks on others”

    It obviously does since it means they are not getting the enhanced checks.

    Others not getting the enhanced checks means they get fewer, less stringent checks.

    Tap dance around it any way you like, even in Wellington boots as you are now, it means creating an easier path through security. And that is not secure.

  92. Tell It to the Israelis

    They profile all the time, Whether you’re aware of it or not

  93. Sufficient security for all, enhanced security for the more probable.

  94. Harri, on February 23rd, 2020 at 8:13 AM Said:

    Seamus, on February 22nd, 2020 at 10:20 PM Said:

    “I would say over two thirds.”

    According to a freedom of information request it is 48% black, 24% white, 10% Asian, and 18% mixed or unknown. Victims are 43% black, 35% white, 11% Asian, and 10% mixed or unknown.

    What was the date of that FOI?
    Have you got a link.

  95. Yes

    Unlike Seamus and Frank, some of us live in the real world

  96. Notice that these are the two guys here who support replacing all your lower wage workers with starvation wage workers From strange lands, actually believing that this would be good for your peoples

    Keep that position of theirs in mind when they proffer an opinion on any other matter

  97. All the same, there must be something gratifying in being “profiled”.

    Imagine if, say, Israel started profiling Irishmen at airports (which they may already do). I don’t know any Irishman who wouldn’t feel a bit pleased at that distiction when travelling.

  98. Are a majority of youth knife offenders minority ethnic?

    22nd Nov 2018

    Claim

    Two thirds of knife offenders under 25 were black or minority ethnic.
    Conclusion

    In England and Wales 38% of knife possession offenders under 25s were non-white in 2017. It was two thirds in London.

    “Two thirds of knife offenders under 25 were black or minority ethnic”

    David Dimbleby, 8 November 2018

    The claim seems to refer to data on knife crime in London only, not the country as a whole. In 2017 two thirds of knife crime offenders under 25 in London were black or minority ethnic, according to the Mayor of London’s Office for Policing and Crime.

    Correction 4 December 2018
    We originally said the claim was incorrect because it referred to data for London only, without specifying that fact. On reflection we feel the discussion was focused on crime in London so it was unfair to say the claim was incorrect. We have changed the conclusion accordingly.

    https://fullfact.org/crime/are-majority-youth-knife-offenders-minority-ethnic/

  99. Notice that these are the two guys here who support replacing all your lower wage workers with starvation wage workers From strange lands, actually believing that this would be good for your peoples

    Nice bit of supping from the Aberdeen cup there.

    Even thought they’re more than able to think for themselves IIRC both Frank and Seamus believe in controlled immigration like everyone else here.

  100. *though

  101. Mahons,

    “Sufficient security for all, enhanced security for the more probable.”

    Sufficient security is sufficient. After all, words have meanings, as you say.

    Your “enhanced” security is just another way of saying “reduced security for others”. And that remains stupid.

  102. Frank – stupid is ignoring the obvious because your more worried about offending people than preventing terrorism.

  103. Pete Moore

    That some groups (muslims) might be alienated is neither here nor there. Such concerns can and should be ignored. This is the thinking that led to tens of thousands of British girls being jihad-raped. Yes it is.

    Wrong. The opposite actually happened were Pakistani rape gangs are concerned.
    The police decided to give them preferential treatment and not investigate for whatever reason. This actually strengthens my argument against positive or negative treatment of particular groups.

    The idea that the religionists which produce an inordinate amount of terrorists and terrorist sypathisers should be treated exactly the same as everyone else is drivel.

    I never said they should be treated exactly the same as everybody else. I agree that profiling and monitoring of elements within certain groups is necessary.

    The idea that they should be treated exactly the same as everyone else because they might not like it is drivel.

    Just because you can understand it doesn’t make it drivel. As I have repeatedly said, The vast majority of Muslims do not support terrorists. Alienating a whole group of people is not the way to achieve their support and will in fact to make matters worse in the long run. If you can’t understand this then I don’t know what I can say.

    The idea that their horrible ideas, and Islam is a horrible set of ideas, should be treated no differently, is drivel.

    Islam is no worse in terms of what’s written in their holy book than the Bible. it’s how people interpret those books that’s the problem, and the vast majority of Muslims ignore the nasty bits in their book, just like the Christians and Jews do. Are Muslims as benign as the Christians have become in the last few decades? No, but Muslims in the West are getting better. And singling them out in an us against them confrontation is not going to help matters.

  104. // Alienating a whole group of people is not the way to achieve their support and will in fact to make matters worse in the long run. //

    But does profiling really alienate people who are law-abiding and feel friendship towards Britain?
    Not too long ago, there by a bombing campaign in Britain by some of our deranged countrymen. The resulting profiling (if it meant young fellows being briefly separated from the crowd at Holyhead and airports and asked a few questions) didn’t bother anyone, except maybe the very few who like to feel bothered by such things.

    This is all a non-issue. Being subject to greater scruitiny should be no big deal for any reasonable person. (with the exception, perhaps, of blacks in the US, as they’re in their own country and have justified memories of centuries of discrimination, to put it mildly).

    There are too many other injustices in our societies to be concerned about.

  105. Noel

    Being subject to greater scruitiny should be no big deal for any reasonable person. (with the exception, perhaps, of blacks in the US, as they’re in their own country and have justified memories of centuries of discrimination, to put it mildly).

    You just destroyed your own argument there Noel.

  106. Being subject to greater scruitiny should be no big deal for any reasonable person.

    Has anyone actually asked any Muslims if they have a problem with being subject to greater security?

    Or is the just the righteous virtue signalling liberals getting outraged and taking offence on someone else’s behalf again?

  107. Has anyone actually asked any Muslims if they have a problem with being subject to greater security?

    Yes. Multiple articles have said that some Muslims, (and this also applies to any other religious, or racial group), would have a problem with being singled out. They wouldn’t have a problem with increased security for everybody.

  108. //You just destroyed your own argument there Noel//

    I did???? And there was me, feeling so constructive today 🙁

    (BTW, I hope you don’t think that the experience of Muslims in Britain is in any way similar to that of blacks in the US)

    //Muslims in the West are getting better. //

    Not only in the West. From what I hear, there’s been a big increase in secularism and religious scepticism in many parts of the ME over the past decade. Don’t be irritated by Jihadist idiots, who are really driven by social and psychological factors and for whom Islam ist just a warhorse. They are a small minority; Islam – and even Arabic culture in general – is losing its grip on many people.
    I believe the problem areas will soon be more in Muslim Asia than Arabia.

  109. Being singled out?

    Dave.

    I really think not only in Great Britain, but across the whole ,e of Europe, apart from Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and The Czech. Islam has not got a leg to stand on when it comes to being singled out.

    Just how high has the death toll got to reach?

    How many more atrocities?

  110. Noel

    (BTW, I hope you don’t think that the experience of Muslims in Britain is in any way similar to that of blacks in the US)

    No I don’t. I think the Muslims in Britain have been treated pretty fairly up to now.

    And I completely agree with the rest of your post.

  111. Well, it seems like Germany has started ‘profiling’:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51586283

    Feelings on the ground Noel?

  112. Harri,

    Just how high has the death toll got to reach?

    How many more atrocities?

    That’s called in appeal to emotion Harri, and it makes as much sense as saying how many more people including children have to die in car accidents before we ban cars?

    As I have repeatedly said, in the west, the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists and do not support terrorists. Alienating those who are already on our side is not a good move. It’s going to make things harder, not easier.
    What I do support is a reduction in immigration from those countries that support terrorism, such as Pakistan, and closer monitoring of terrorist suspects in the UK.
    The police should also do their f****** job when it comes to Pakistani rape gangs.
    But I don’t agree with victimising those whose only ‘crime’ is to be Muslim.

  113. A measured and correct response Dave. It should also be noted that fanatical Islam has killed more Muslims than it has Christians.

  114. So what

  115. You’re only concerned about some murdered then?

    Fair enough. Some more supping from the Aberdeen cup.

  116. “Muslims in the west are getting better” and letting thousands of young white girls be raped is a price worth paying to allow virtue-signalling by those who signal their virtue.
    Yes – a bigotted remark, worse than rape or murder by a paqui of any British girl.

  117. They don’t get any good Guy credit because they’ve killed more of their own

    What a completely silly thing to say

  118. What muslims do in muslim countries is no concern of mine, and all infidel military should be withdrawn. Muslims committing rape and murder of my people in the countries of my people is of my concern, as it should be. Repatriation of muslims to dar-al-islam would be good for all European countries.

  119. If Isis Kills 10,000 people in Syria and 1000 people in Europe, Paul thinks that the situation is balanced and wonderful

  120. //Feelings on the ground Noel?//

    I’m the only person I know who even mentioned it. (but I don’t get out much)

    At any rate, it’s really bad that any people should feel threatened and at risk when enjoying themselves.

    What is pathetic, however, is how the media and a row of mainstream politicians immediately launched broadsides against AfD, practically accusing them of inspiring this murder.

    Normally no problem, except that these are the very people who, when some Islamists kills as many people, at once shout down anyone who links islamist terrorism to immigration, accusing them of “instrumentalising” the “tragedy” while the “the blood is still wet on the streets” etc.

    The very same people who are now trying to make political capital out of it. Believe me.

    Dave, how did I destroy my own argument at 4:27?

  121. They don’t get any good Guy credit because they’ve killed more of their own

    They’re not getting any good guy credit for anything, the murdering bastards. Unlike you however I don’t judge their murders on the religion or ethnicity, it’s still murder.

    If Isis Kills 10,000 people in Syria and 1000 people in Europe, Paul thinks that the situation is balanced and wonderful

    Stop being a dick. It’s amusing when your Mr middle of the road mask slips to reveal your true bias.

  122. The very same people who are now trying to make political capital out of it. Believe me.

    Isn’t political capital made of all murders that are politically oriented? I think the murder of 10 people was mentioned twice on ATW. It would be interesting to see what the ATW response would have been had the killer / victims role been reversed.

    I’m sure some guys around here would have been shouting from the rooftops.

  123. Noel

    Dave, how did I destroy my own argument at 4:27?

    Because you said it would be ok to treat Muslims differently, but not blacks.
    A bit like saying you support free speech, but with exceptions.

  124. But I gave my reasons why profiling of blacks IN THE USA should be an exception.

    I was guessing that it was that that you meant, hence I asked you to compare the history of blacks in the US with that of Muslims in the UK.
    I’m surprised that you can’t see that blacks would naturally have particular sensitivies about that kind of thing, and that they have been in the US since year 1.

    As I said, no young Irish guy I know was upset by being rigorously “profiled” at British ports in the 70s and 80s. We were aware that people of our background and age etc were planting bombs in England.

    Do you think we should have been upset?

    // A bit like saying you support free speech, but with exceptions.//

    Destroying own arguments? 🙂 There always have to be exceptions to free speech.

    //I think the murder of 10 people was mentioned twice on ATW. //

    Paul, I wasn’t talking of a blog read by 20 or so people and where wise words appear alongside the words of complete fools. I was talking of the state media, which has a vast reach and is generally respected, and which is funded directly by all householders.

  125. Dave.

    It’s all a tad ironic really?

    Extra checks at airports especially for Muslims? when you have Mama Merkel inviting over a million unchecked Arabs ( and many other assorted unchecked “refugees “) into Europe?

  126. Fair enough Noel.

    I was referring in local terms to your comment about political advantage being made of the murders.

  127. Noel,

    But I gave my reasons why profiling of blacks IN THE USA should be an exception.

    I understand your reasons Noel. I don’t necessarily disagree with your points.
    However, I think the people, regardless of class, wealth, race, religion or location, should be treated as equally as possible. No victimisation and no favoritism. That’s how divisions in society occur. you should try to avoid a them and situation as much as possible.

    Do you think we should have been upset?

    Wheather it upset you or not, is down to your personal opinion. But many Irish were upset by the way they were singled out. I know this personally, because I’ve got and have had, lots of Irish work colleagues, friends and family. And as I’ve already stated, the way some of the Irish were treated in the UK, alienated many towards the English, and increased sympathy and support for the IRA. That’s a fact mate.

    Destroying own arguments? 🙂 There always have to be exceptions to free speech.

    Groan. My opinion on free speech is not hypocritical and it’s been stated many times on here. My point still stands mate. ☺️

  128. Harri,

    Extra checks at airports especially for Muslims? when you have Mama Merkel inviting over a million unchecked Arabs ( and many other assorted unchecked “refugees “) into Europe?

    Couldn’t put it better myself Harri. Thousands of illegals enter the UK every year and don’t even get checked.

  129. Notice that Phantom here believes that brown bread makes you gay, that JFK committed suicide, and that fluoridation of the water supply has caused his IQ to drop below 70.

    Keep these positions of his in mind when he proffers an opinion on any other matter

  130. Frank ODwyer,

    Notice that Phantom here believes that brown bread makes you gay, that JFK committed suicide, and that fluoridation of the water supply has caused his IQ to drop below 70. IQ to drop below 70.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong but, I would be extremely surprised to find out that phantom believes any of those things.
    I only eat brown bread and whole wheat products, and have done for the past 30 years. I should be a raving puffter by by now.

  131. Everybody knows that JFK was killed by Rafael Cruz; the president told us this and all his followers believe it that so I must believe it too

    I am eating this brand of bread this week, Which is just exceptional. Paul thinks that there is no good bread in America, he is wrong yet again

    https://www.foodforlife.com/about_us/ezekiel-49

  132. Paul thinks that there is no good bread in America, he is wrong yet again

    Another thing I didn’t say or think. IIRC I spoke about the average, supermarket, industrial stuff? I’m also very seldom wrong and when I am I tend to admit it.

    You really need to stop making this kind of shit up. You’re turning into one of those Trump fake news guys that you love speaking about.

  133. Dave,

    “ I’m not saying you’re wrong but, I would be extremely surprised to find out that phantom believes any of those things.”

    Yes just as Paul, Seamus and myself (and others I’m sure) would be surprised to find out that we believe the things Phantom constantly claims we do.

  134. You seem to forget that your previous comments are still up here

    The average bread and beer on discount in the supermarket in Ireland and England is pretty bogus too.

  135. Frank

    Do you know longer think that a female English retiree Represents an identical threat to the flying public as does a Palestinian 25-year-old male?

    That represents significant intellectual growth

    No please go convince Seamus

  136. You seem to forget that your previous comments are still up here

    No I don’t. I also remember that I spoke specifically about the average, supermarket, industrial stuff.

    You really should stop making shit up. It does your credibility no good whatsoever.

  137. No longer

  138. Phantom,

    Do you know(sic) longer argue with intellectual honesty?

    You seem to forget that your comments are still up there.

  139. Frank.

    It does disappoint me that there is a common trend on ATW to accuse people of saying, or thinking things they never did.

  140. Paul said what I mocked him for saying. I Addressed him for that at the time. He has twice made comments that American food and beer are not good. He is a provincial Spaniard
    without any knowledge on the subject

  141. I questioned you attributing thoughts to me which aren’t true. You’ve already done it twice on this thread.

    He is a provincial Spaniard
    without any knowledge on the subject

    And you’re being a dick trying to get a rise with more untruths.