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“THE STATE WILL SAVE US!”

By Pete Moore On March 26th, 2020

Do I really regard the state as incompetent? Do I really think that government is a perennial disaster? Read on.

The government says a communications mix-up meant it missed the deadline to join an EU scheme to get extra ventilators for the coronavirus crisis.

Ministers were earlier accused of putting Brexit before public health when Downing Street said the UK had decided to pursue its own scheme.

But No 10 now says officials did not get emails inviting the UK to join and it could join future schemes.

Thanks to copious imports of Chinese Disease people are struggling to breathe. So we can join a scheme to get more ventilators. (Whether or not it’s wise to do so is entirely irrelevant here. The scheme exists and there’s access to it.)

But the UK didn’t join the scheme, because someone didn’t get an email.

Let that sink in.

122 Responses to ““THE STATE WILL SAVE US!””

  1. What will save all us plebs is a New World Order.

    A One World Government in fact..

    Gordon Brown calls for global government to tackle coronavirus
    Ex-PM at centre of 2008 banks rescue suggests taskforce of leaders and health experts

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/26/gordon-brown-calls-for-global-government-to-tackle-coronavirus

    The utter, utter bastards.

    Temporary my arse.

  2. The state’s incompetent because it failed to join international state sponsered ventilator scheme?

    Funny.

  3. Paul.

    No, the State is incompetent because it’s spent God knows how many years pissing our cash up against a wall employing useless and pointless NHS Diversity Officers, instead of investing in more medical equipment.

  4. Harri there’s no correlation between the comparisons.

    Pete’s saying that the state’s incompetent because it didn’t join a programme organised by a bloc of states not because the NHS didn’t buy enough ventilators.

    BTW, I think that while the NHS may not have sufficient ventilators it certainly has more than it would have were Pete to have his way.

  5. Why hasn’t Tesco fixed this already

    I am losing all faith in Pete.

  6. Paul.

    After all said and done, at the end of the day, the NHS didn’t really ‘need’ thousands of diversity officers on 50k + (minimum) after all.

    What it really needed was medical equipment.

    Give all NHS Diversity Officers a choice with immediate effect, retrain as something actually useful to the National Health Service… or find another career.

    Surplus to requirements, and all that.

  7. After all said and done, at the end of the day, the NHS didn’t really ‘need’ thousands of diversity officers on 50k + (minimum) after all.

    But that’s not the point of the post Harri. The point of the post is that the state is incompetent because it didn’t join a programme organised by other states just like it.

    If pete had his way there’d be no diversity officers, no nurses, no doctors, no medical equipment, no ventilators etc at all in the NHS.

  8. Paul

    The private company I work for, and a very successful one at that, as far as I know, employs no diversity officers, yes, some dopey Human Resources officers who are actually living on another planet.

    We employ over 150,000 people worldwide, we seem to get by okay without the need for diversity officers.

    Why does the NHS ‘need’ them?

    They don’t, is the simple answer. No one actually needs them.

    What the NHS actually needed was more medical equipment.

  9. I don’t know why Harri and I think that the money would be better spent somewhere else.

    The fact of the matter is that Pete’s post criticises the state as incompetent because it didn’t avail of a scheme organised by other states. Do you not see the illogicality of such a position or do you simply wish to ignore it and attempt to shift the discussion elsewhere?

    If the state is incompetent whay are those states that organised the ventilator scheme also not incompetent?

    As for the NHS, I’d rather have the imperfect NHS, diversity officers and all, than Pete’s no NHS whatsoever.

  10. The Spanish Health Service says it will refuse to pay for the tens of thousands of testing kits packs it ordered from China.

    The kits have been found to have a batch sample accuracy of just 30%.

  11. Djaym.

    Yep.

    As the Czechs have just found out to their cost.

  12. 40% false positives and 20 false negatives

    completely useless

  13. Actually the Chinese test kits failed quality controls.

    Doctors hade been warning about the accuracy of Chinese kits since last month.

  14. Yes Paul

    But they still managed to sell them to the Czechs, and now the Spanish.

    Just how stupid are our governments?

  15. Paul McMahon, on March 26th, 2020 at 8:57 PM Said:
    Actually the Chinese test kits failed quality controls.
    Doctors hade been warning about the accuracy of Chinese kits since last month.

    Did they, like the Czechs all test positive?

    Maybe they need to order some more from the Chinese, to ensure they don’t have the Chinese virus, which started in China, by the Chinese.

  16. Thay hardly sold them if they’re not being paid for them H.

  17. Paul.

    The Chinese don’t expect nothing for nothing.

    Look at how much American debt they own.

    There is a price to pay, there is no free ride.

  18. Actually the Chinese test kits failed quality controls.

    But the nuclear power station they’re building here, that’ll work.

  19. Paul.

    Let’s just hope the Chinese don’t gift the rest of the world a fifth or is it a sixth dangerous virus..

    “If history teaches us anything, is that we learn nothing from history “

    Fuck the Chinese.

  20. Yep production and purchase of Ventilators really needs another layer of smothering EU bureaucracy. This foolishness will cost lives. Boris whether intentionally or not has done exactly the right thing in my opinion.

  21. Was the communication mix-up incompetence or the Brexit mentality at work? This is a serious issue that will cost lives. An investigation is warranted.

  22. Incredibly generous of the EU to allow the UK to participate in the scheme.

    Bravo.

    Solidarity in action.

  23. Can’t say fairer than that?

    Old Holborn ✘
    @Holbornlolz
    The best way to help the NHS is not stand on your balcony clapping.

    The best way is sit on the sofa for a fortnight (and then fire all the procurement managers / diversity coordinators / art directors / gender reassignment therapists

  24. Myths and facts and tinfoil hats
    Posted on March 27, 2020 by legiron
    1
    Lots of wild information about at the moment. Very little of it is sensible.

    First, it is likely that chloroquine will prove to be an effective treatment for Kung Flu. I mean pharmaceutical grade chloroquine, not the stuff in fishtank cleaner that’s mixed with a lot of other chemicals, many of them toxic and corrosive. Unless you have a chemistry lab on hand that’s capable of isolating and purifying the chloroquine, fishtank cleaner is likely to kill you.

    It is true that bleach kills the virus. Bleach kills pretty much anything, which is why you should never let it get into a septic tank. It works because the free chlorine wrecks protein structures. It’s indiscriminate, it destroys any protein. You are made of protein. Your throat is made of protein. It is true that bleach will kill the virus but if you drink it, it will kill you too. With much more certainty than any viral infection. You think Ebola’s 50% kill rate is pretty high? Bleach: Pfft. Amateur.

    Drinking hot drinks will not work. Yes, heat will kill the virus but the story circulating that it will die at 27C is clearly utter bollocks. Human body temperature is 37C so if it died at ten degrees below your body temperature, nobody would ever get infected. It is killed in a 60C wash and if you add a little bit of Dettol to the fabric softener tray, that will make damn sure. Forget the hot drinks. Cold, especially ice cream, will soothe your sore throat. It won’t kill anything but it feels good.

    You do not need antibacterial handwash. Soap works by disrupting the lipid layer of the virus outer coat. Basically, it falls apart. Its attachment proteins will still stick to your cells but they have no virus, no RNA to inject. So it cannot infect. Any soap will do the same thing. Including laundry soap. And cheap bar soap.

    Much is made of the death rate compared to flu. That is not what matters. What matters is the ‘cold’ period where someone could be infecting others for up to 14 days before they even know they have it. That is what could cause a massive spike in infections and that is what could overwhelm the hospitals. About 20% of cases need hospitalisation. 20% of a thousand cases is 200. No problem. 20% of a hundred thousand cases… big problem. You will soon get to the situation in Italy and Spain where doctors are having to decide who to treat and who to watch die.

    We have stayed mostly at home for almost two weeks since we came back from Wales. Laundry is of little concern, we haven’t even bothered getting dressed most days. We don’t go out much at this time of year anyway, it’s cold and unpleasant out there. We have gone out to visit friends and family in the past – especially the granddaughter – but not since we came back from Wales.

    We have no symptoms but we did have to stop at a lot of service stations on the way back. All of which were busy. It was a Sunday – I never realised a family day out could be taking the kids to MacDonald’s at a service station, but a lot seemed to be doing that. So we weren’t planning to visit anyone for two weeks anyway, and now we can’t.

    So many people don’t take this disease seriously. It’s not the kill rate of Flu Manchu you have to worry about. It’s that potential massive spike in infections. Let’s say we weren’t both utterly antisocail swines here and we actually visited the neighbours. We don’t have any symptoms but it has not yet been a full two weeks since visiting all those service stations, so we cannot be sure. If we were sociable we could have infected hundreds by now. And most of them wouldn’t know for a week or two. How many could they have infected? Who also wouldn’t know for a week or two…

    Everyone is so worked up about this new virus they forget that all the other diseases have not gone away. If hospitals are overwhelmed with Flu Manchu, what happens if you have a stroke or heart attack? You can’t get in. There are no beds. They don’t want you in hospital in case you get infected too and in your lowered health state, you’re likely to get a bad case.

    What if you break an arm or a leg, or end up impaled on railings after a car crash? There are no doctors to spare, no ambulances to collect you, no beds, no treatment… it goes so very far beyond this ‘just the flu’ narrative.

    And if you really want a good reason to take it seriously, consider this. If you die of this disease, you die alone. If your mother or father die of it, they die alone. No visitors. No saying goodbye. No last hand-hold before the forever sleep. You will die among masked strangers who dare not touch you. Alone. You will pass from this world with no family nor friends around you. If it’s your parent or child, the last you will see of them is when they are loaded into the ambulance. You might not even be allowed to have a funeral. You just get a box of ashes from a mass cremation.

    Just imagine that for a moment and consider whether you still want to have a mass prayer session in the street. You are not going to get special treatment in this one, guys. You know who you are.

    It’s happening in China and beginning in Italy and Spain now. Even in the UK, if you are in hospital for any reason – no visitors. None. Whatever you are in for. If you die of anything in there now, you die alone. Because of this virus. Still want to fob it off as ‘just the flu’?

    There are those taking advantage. Tiny Blur and the Brown Gorgon are demanding their wet dream of One World Government be implemented right now. The antidrinkers are demanding booze controls. The antismokers/antivapers are pretending (on zero evidence and in spite of evidence to the contrary) that smokers and vapers will suffer more. All utter bollocks but they can’t let a crisis go to waste.

    Tha Climatologists have claimed from day one that it is all due to climate change. If it was getting warmer, how is a heat-sensitive virus plaguing the world? It is killed, as with most microbes, by UV light so a warmer sunnier world is not the best place for it.

    Anti-Brexit morons have claimed we must stop Brexit because being in the EU makes us safer. Yeah, ask Italy about that. They asked the EU for help. The EU imposed a fine that increased by 80,000 euros a day on Italy, and sent no help. They have sent a few million to help Iran though. They have also done nothing to help Greece, faced with a migrant army on its border. The EU is an utter waste of money. There must be no delay, in fact we’d be better off out of it now.

    The tinfoil hatters (who have turned out to be right a lot of the time lately) say that Bill Gates wants to impose a chip on us so that we can be certified free of this virus and thereby be allowed to travel. I would scoff, but Bill Gates has actually said it himself. He has also said that ‘we can cut the world population by ten percent through the use of vaccines’. Direct quote from his TED talk.

    CStM and I were in Aldi and Tesco tonight. No toilet roll, tinned beans or tomatoes or flour and little pasta but most of the rest was there. What was striking though was not the shelves. It was the people.

    They are terrified. Not of the virus. Of each other. I felt like the Dark Lord of The Horrible Thing walking through there and watching them all shy away. It was fun but also scary.

    When Billy Gates Gruff offers his vaccine with an added chip so you can be scanned as ‘safe’, do you think he will have to force people to get it? You can’t travel without it, and it marks you as safe to interact with.

    They will fight to be first, won’t they? And they will never ask that important question about the implanted chip.

    What else does it do

    https://underdogsbiteupwards.wordpress.com/

  25. Ticking lots of reactionary right wing boxes in that article eh ?

  26. And no one will be sacked or face disciplinary action. Where as, in the private world, they would as no company can afford such incompetence.

  27. And no one will be sacked or face disciplinary action.

    For what?

    Ticking lots of reactionary right wing boxes in that article eh ?

    Harri previously posted one of his articles where he wrote a lengthy rant about limited equipment in the NHS followed by a completey unrelated paragraph about ‘lefties’ complaining about the virus being called Chinese flu.

    As I said to H, even bacteriologists can have far right political prejudices.

    Expect ‘Flu Manchu’ & ‘Kung Flu’ to be extensively used in far right argot from now.

  28. Paul

    He probably added that to wind up the left.

    It’s working.

    😏

  29. Paul.

    Anyone who labels those that disagree with their political views as “far right” are it appears to be from the “far left”

    So it really doesn’t mean much to be honest.

  30. Just being reported on the news that Boris Johnson has tested positive for the virus !

  31. Harri, the guy wrote a rant about limited equipment in the NHS and in the same article complained about ‘leftie’ terminology. Where’s the interrelation between the two?

    Also bearing in mind the frequency which you bandy the adjectives ‘liberals’ and ‘progressives’ into most comments you make here what would using your standard above make you?

  32. Again, politicians are at a particular risk

    They are always shaking hands with strangers, This guy didn’t stop that practice Until recently.

    As Pete Moore had said repeatedly, the UK wasn’t being serious about this virus, This will help properly educate the Prime Minister.

  33. Also bearing in mind the frequency which you bandy the adjectives ‘liberals’ and ‘progressives’ into most comments you make here what would using your standard above make you?

    What it doesn’t make us is “far right”

    That is just hyperbolic bollocks used by the far left.

  34. Paul

    I think we can agree, there is no shortage in the NHS of diversity officers, interpreters, and other assorted pointless politically correct non jobs, sucking the life blood cash out of the NHS.

    What the NHS actually needs, and is now found to be wanting is front line medical staff, and medical equipment.

    As posted earlier, we don’t need to stand on balconies clapping our NHS staff, (my wife is one of them) we need to sit on our sofas for two weeks, then fire all NHS diversity officers, inclusion officers and gender realignment operatives.

    Let’s get back to some sort of reality, forget what those liberal progressives want or desires, they no longer matter.

  35. Boris Johnson just tested +ve for coronavirus , wish him a speedy recovery

  36. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones Harri?

    You excessive use of ‘liberal’ and ‘progressive’ in seemingly almost every conversation you’ve previously had here means that the words have lost any meaning.

    Someone bemoaning the lack of equipment in the NHS in an article commenting on ‘leftie’ terminology?

    Hyperbolic bollocks is right.

  37. Harri, please not ‘diversity officers’ again:

    Paul McMahon, on March 26th, 2020 at 8:47 PM Said:

    I don’t know why Harri and I think that the money would be better spent somewhere else.

    The fact of the matter is that Pete’s post criticises the state as incompetent because it didn’t avail of a scheme organised by other states. Do you not see the illogicality of such a position or do you simply wish to ignore it and attempt to shift the discussion elsewhere?

    If the state is incompetent whay are those states that organised the ventilator scheme also not incompetent?

    As for the NHS, I’d rather have the imperfect NHS, diversity officers and all, than Pete’s no NHS whatsoever.

  38. They are always shaking hands with strangers, This guy didn’t stop that practice Until recently.

    If there really is a God, or karma, I truly hope he shook hands with President Xi Jinping.

  39. Yes the words liberal and leftist on this site have no meaning at all

    Those who use those terms the most don’t have the slightest idea what they mean

    There is a powerful case to be made against say Democrats and labour, but Those who don’t know what words mean aren’t capable of showing up for that fight

  40. Harri

    !!!

  41. Paul McMahon, on March 26th, 2020 at 8:47 PM Said:
    I don’t know why Harri and I think that the money would be better spent somewhere else.

    Precisely Paul.

    But apparently, the NHS are still so “desperate “ for diversity officers.

    They are still advertising for them, on salaries which to be honest, resemble minor lottery wins?

    Why?

  42. Phantom, on March 27th, 2020 at 12:18 PM Said:
    Yes the words liberal and leftist on this site have no meaning at all

    You missed out “far right”?

    It’s probably just an oversight?

  43. You excessive use of ‘liberal’ and ‘progressive’ in seemingly almost every conversation you’ve previously had here means that the words have lost any meaning.

    Paul

    “Far right”?

    Pot, kettle, black..

    ?

  44. Harri

    I have repeatedly criticize the use of words like the far right to deal with those who want to properly control the border

    Controlling borders and crushing illegal immigration is a centrist position in Shared by all decent people

  45. Harri, there’s a shortage of ventilators in the NHS because the UK missed a deadline to join a multi state EU programme, not because of ‘diversity officers’

    I don’t know why and certainly don’t care ATM because it’s irrelevant to the current situation.

  46. kurt, on March 27th, 2020 at 12:13 PM Said:
    Boris Johnson just tested +ve for coronavirus , wish him a speedy recovery

    Agree Kurt.

    Can you imagine for even one nano second having a Corbyn, or Dianne Abbot in charge?

    Jesus H Chris.

    The very thought is more terrifying than any pathogen the Chinese can throw at us..

    Shudder…

  47. Christ

  48. Pot, kettle, black..

    Yes Harri, precisely what your 11.20 above is.

    Phantom. ‘Kung flu’ and ‘Flu Manchu’ has bothing to do with immigration.

  49. *nothing

  50. Hiring diversity officeris is a very wrong thing, but it’s not particularly relevant to this discussion

    Every one of those worthless bastards should be shown the door, even if they weren’t paid any salary at all. But They don’t cost very much money in the context of the NHS budget

    The NHS is underfunded. And the UK, just like the US, was on the back foot on this entire issue. We’ve all been warned about the dangers of pandemics, over the years, and none of our western countries has done enough to prepare for them.It is moronic to frame any of this in terms of left or right

  51. Paul

    Kung flu’ and ‘Flu Manchu’ winds up the left.

    It’s working.

    It’s Chinese flu by the way.

  52. Are those terms widely used over there? This is the first time I’ve heard of them

  53. Phantom.

    Only by those with a sense of humour.

    So by the left in general?

    No, not a chance.

  54. Phantom

    No they are not widely used. Th vast majority of sensible people arent using this crisis to make political or social digs. People are using the terms Coronavirus not stupid idiotic nicknames for it.

  55. No they are not widely used. Th vast majority of sensible people arent using this crisis to make political or social digs.

    Colm.

    You obviously have not been listening to a single word the Labour Party have been ranting on about?

  56. So you are now praising the labour party for their sense of humor?

  57. Phantom,
    //Yes the words liberal and leftist on this site have no meaning at all

    Those who use those terms the most don’t have the slightest idea what they mean//

    I totally agree Phantom. They just meaningless labels attached to people who don’t agree with the opinions and the politics of those using them. They have no real value.

  58. The difference between me and you Harri is that I don’t care which side of the political side people are on, I am not interested in left or right at the moment. You however continue to see this crisis Asan opportunity to continue uninterrupted your relentless anti ‘Liberal’ ‘lefties’ crusade. You just trivialise it into the routine partisan tribal bashing which to me just doesn’t fit the mood of the moment.

  59. Kung flu’ and ‘Flu Manchu’ winds up the left

    I don’t know if it does H. I don’t think ‘the left’ are going to read an obscure blog to be wound up. Commenting that such terminology will now likely become casually used isn’t being wound up either.

  60. Those terms wouldn’t be particularly clever.

    But whatever.

  61. Phantom,

    Are those terms widely used over there? This is the first time I’ve heard of them

    Not that I know of. It’s the first time I’ve heard them.
    I have had people called the coronavirus Chinese flu though.

  62. The correct term all along would have been wuhan something

    But I’d stay away from the new ” funny ” ways to connect this with China

  63. Perhaps if we do all start calling it Kung Flu or Flu Manchu that will help save lives. I’ve yet to hear of a more sensible suggestion from Harri !

  64. Those flu names did make me laugh though.

  65. Incidentally, on the subject itself, I wonder is the ‘communications breakdown’ just cover?

    Lib Dem MP Layla Moran:

    I first wrote to the health secretary Matt Hancock to raise this issue last week, urging the government to put ideology to one side and urgently opt into the initiative before the deadline passed. Every day we are seeing more stories of NHS staff facing chronic shortage of protective equipment and ventilators. It seemed like a no-brainer that the UK should participate.

    My request was initially met with a deafening silence. Then the government then claimed it wouldn’t be taking part because we’re no longer members of the EU. But that simply didn’t wash. The EU has confirmed repeatedly that the UK was eligible to join. And when we’re facing a crisis like Coronavirus, people don’t care about political dogma. They rightly just want to see the government do whatever it takes to get the lifesaving equipment our NHS needs

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/layla-moran-on-coronavirus-eu-ventilator-scheme-1-6581800

  66. Ah the wonderful Brexit

  67. Myths and facts and tinfoil hats

    Harri, you keep quoting this microbiologist. Do you know anything about him, apart from the fact that he is a microbiologist?

    Well, I do. He is an expert in the gut flora (the microorganisms inside the intestines) of cows, pigs and other farm animals. He has a doctorate, but by no stretch of the imagination is he an eminent academic. He has had a respectable career as a middle-ranking academic at second and third tier educational institutions but is now an independent consultant.

    He is not a virologist, nor is he an epidemiologist. He has published plenty of papers about gas fermentation in the guts of sheep, but not one about viruses. He knows more than you or me about viruses, no question, but he also knows a hell of a lot less than any of the actual experts from major universities who are currently working on the coronavirus problem.

    Specifically, his assessment that ‘it is likely that chloroquine will prove to be an effective treatment for Kung Flu’ is purely speculative. Actually the first trial data (yes, I’ve read it) looked promising, but it was riddled with flaws which have only recently been pointed out. There is, and I can say this unambiguously, at present *no good evidence* one way or the other. It is under active investigation, but it is quite simply impossible to say at present that it is ‘likely’ to prove an effective treatment.

    Executive summary: his views are worth more than those of some bloke down the pub, but there is *far* more reliable information to be had elsewhere.

  68. The correct term all along would have been wuhan something

    But I’d stay away from the new ” funny ” ways to connect this with China

    I disagree here, Phantom. Pretty much any scientific discipline has international conventions. There are internationally-agreed methods of naming new molecules, new elements, new drugs. This obviously makes sense: it would be a bit silly for every country to give a new drug (say) a different name and hope that theirs sticks.

    Similarly, there is an international naming convention for new human pathogens. This task falls to the WHO as part of its responsibility for the International Classification of Diseases, which it has superintended since 1948. They’ve been doing it for 72 years!

    In 2015 the WHO updated its guidelines, ‘with the aim to minimize unnecessary negative impact of disease names on trade, travel, tourism or animal welfare, and avoid causing offence to any cultural, social, national, regional, professional or ethnic groups.’

    You may disagree with those guidelines, but they were approved by WHO delegates five years ago and have been in force ever since. It would, I think, be very wrong to disregard an internationally agreed naming convention just so that certain elements could indulge their need to stigmatise an entire nation.

    If a new pathogen were to emerge in, say, Florida (not impossible), I dare say many of the Trump fanboys might feel rather differently about this.

  69. Noted.

  70. Masterson, you really are an asset to informed common sense.

  71. ditto boys , top man masterson, or Son of the Master 🙂

  72. Colm, on March 27th, 2020 at 1:08 PM Said:
    Perhaps if we do all start calling it Kung Flu or Flu Manchu that will help save lives. I’ve yet to hear of a more sensible suggestion from Harri !

    Nope.

    Harri, on March 27th, 2020 at 8:00 AM Said:

    Can’t say fairer than that?

    Old Holborn ✘
    @Holbornlolz
    The best way to help the NHS is not stand on your balcony clapping.
    The best way is sit on the sofa for a fortnight (and then fire all the procurement managers / diversity coordinators / art directors / gender reassignment therapists

  73. *Nope.

    There a far better suggestion made earlier actually..

    Old Holborn ✘
    @Holbornlolz
    The best way to help the NHS is not stand on your balcony clapping.
    The best way is sit on the sofa for a fortnight (and then fire all the procurement managers / diversity coordinators / art directors / gender reassignment therapists

    There, that’s better.

  74. Phantom, on March 27th, 2020 at 12:48 PM Said:
    So you are now praising the labour party for their sense of humor?

    ????

  75. At times like these, there’s more need than ever for truthfulness, sanity and a bit of charity and tolerance.

    We still don’t know much about this virus, so there’s little point stumbling from one theory to another. Listen to the people who’ve dedicated most time and effort into trying to understand these things.

    It’s interesting that in times of crises people look – very sensibly – to the state for assistance and organisation and to science for information and solutions.

    A lot of the pet dogmas, whether political or religious, are soon recognised as luxuries for the good times.

  76. Old Holborn ✘
    @Holbornlolz
    The best way to help the NHS is not stand on your balcony clapping.
    The best way is sit on the sofa for a fortnight (and then fire all the procurement managers / diversity coordinators / art directors / gender reassignment therapists

    Indeed. Joining the EU’s ventilator programme would have been a good idea as well.

  77. PaulL

    Not really, all they needed to do was fire every pointless politically correct non job waste of recsources in the NHS

    And spent the cash on medical equipment instead..

    Or nurses.

  78. Not really a good idea to join the EU ventilator scheme?????

    Harri, read this from Pete’s link:

    The government says a communications mix-up meant it missed the deadline to join an EU scheme to get extra ventilators for the coronavirus crisis.

    It wasn’t because of ‘diversity officers’ that there’s a scarcity of ventilators. Why is there a scarcity? I hear you ask:

    I first wrote to the health secretary Matt Hancock to raise this issue last week, urging the government to put ideology to one side and urgently opt into the initiative before the deadline passed. Every day we are seeing more stories of NHS staff facing chronic shortage of protective equipment and ventilators. It seemed like a no-brainer that the UK should participate.

    My request was initially met with a deafening silence. Then the government then claimed it wouldn’t be taking part because we’re no longer members of the EU. But that simply didn’t wash. The EU has confirmed repeatedly that the UK was eligible to join. And when we’re facing a crisis like Coronavirus, people don’t care about political dogma. They rightly just want to see the government do whatever it takes to get the lifesaving equipment our NHS needs

  79. Paul

    We’re Italy part of the EU ventilators scheme?

    I’m only asking because a) the EU in a time of a worldwide crisis fined Italy 8 million euros, with 80,000 euros a day interest, (that’s a lot of ventilators) and b) Italy are being aided by Cuba and Russia in their hour of much need.

    Not the EU.

    I have desperately tried to keep my utter contempt for the EU out of this worldwide pandemic distaste.

    So, just for clarification, I didn’t mention the EU first.

    😏

    While the EU has been mentioned, I see the Brussels MEP’s are showing much solidarity with the ordinary everyday EU citizen, and whinging and whining for there 300 Euro a day “attendance “ cash keep flowing into their bank accounts, even though they are not attending bugger all.

  80. I first wrote to the health secretary Matt Hancock to raise this issue last week

    Wow!

    Impressive, Layla really has her finger on the pulse?

    Last week?

    Why not years ago?

    She’s not stating the bleeding obvious is she? (A shortage of medical equipment) after 5he event.

    Paul.

    Have you got a link to Layla Moran complaining about a lack of ventilators prior to the Covid breakout.

  81. The EU Is Abandoning Italy in Its Hour of Need
    In a shameful abdication of responsibility, fellow countries in the European Union have failed to give medical assistance and supplies to Italy during an outbreak. China is filling the void.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/14/coronavirus-eu-abandoning-italy-china-aid/

    If only those Italians had signed up to the EU ventilators scheme.

  82. Impressive, Layla really has her finger on the pulse?

    Last week?

    Yeah, before the expiry date of the programme.

    Paul.

    Have you got a link to Layla Moran complaining about a lack of ventilators prior to the Covid breakout.

    No. Why?

  83. Paul…in particular.

    Did the Brussels satellite state of NI bother to sign up for the EU ventilators, something or other scheme?

    I’m only asking…because..

    All nations are short of ventilators but Northern Ireland is particularly short, which is very concerning

    https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/all-nations-are-short-ventilators-northern-ireland-particularly-short-which-very-concerning-2517735

  84. No. Why?

    Because a monkey with enough typewriters could have penned the exact same leer given enough time, after the event.

    Layla Moran?

    Paul.

    Honestly, you truly believe Layla Moran is somehow a tower of intellectual brilliance?

    Jesus H Christ, I truly hope not, I have a new found respect for you, let’s not ruin it all now by being silly.

  85. *letter

  86. Did the Brussels satellite state of NI bother to sign up for the EU ventilators, something or other scheme?

    I’m only asking…because..

    You do realise that the NI state is part of the UK whose government refused to sign up to the programme? yeah?

    Because a monkey with enough typewriters could have penned the exact same leer given enough time, after the event.

    It wasn’t after the event. She wrote to the government prior to the expiry date of the programme.

    Paul.

    Honestly, you truly believe Layla Moran is somehow a tower of intellectual brilliance?

    No. But I do believe that she reminded the government to sign up to the programme before its deadline and the government put politics above public health.

  87. Paul

    “All countries are short of ventilators “

    Anyway…

    Paul
    We’re Italy part of the EU ventilators scheme?
    I’m only asking because a) the EU in a time of a worldwide crisis fined Italy 8 million euros, with 80,000 euros a day interest, (that’s a lot of ventilators) and b) Italy are being aided by Cuba and Russia in their hour of much need.
    Not the EU.

    As for the wonderful super intellectual Layla Moran..

    Even allowing her to mow your lawn would be risky.

  88. Harri, you seem to have missed the point somewhat.

    The EU-wide procurement scheme for medical supplies (including ventilators) had a deadline, which expired last week.

    Before that deadline expired, Layla Moran wrote to the government asking whether it would sign up to the scheme, and if not, why not. She never received a reply.

    The government is now claiming that they did not join the scheme because they were never asked to and never received warning that there was a deadline.

    Layla Moran, by producing the letter she wrote last week, has shown that claim to be false.

    As Paul points out, NI could only be part of this scheme if the Westminster government signed up to it. Which it failed to do.

    In summary: the government could have mitigated the lack of ventilators by signing up to this scheme. If they had taken any notice of Layla Moran’s letter they might have done. Having failed to do so, they have now lied about the reasons why they didn’t.

  89. No. But I do believe that she reminded the government to sign up to the programme before its deadline and the government put politics above public health.

    But did Layla Moran the peer we should as you do, look up to as a tower of strength, warn the government before the event?

    If not, why not?

    It’s her job.

  90. Masterson.

    There should be no deadline in the process of procurement of medical supplies to a tax payer funded national health industry.

    It’s quite plainly obvious, any national health service requires excess amounts of medical equipment.

    What it doesn’t “need” is excess amounts of politically correct bullshit non jobs of actual use to no one.

  91. In summary: the government could have mitigated the lack of ventilators by signing up to this scheme. If they had taken any notice of Layla Moran’s letter they might have done. Having failed to do so, they have now lied about the reasons why they didn’t.

    In summary.

    They are politicians, they lie for a living, it’s what they do, day in and day out, from dawn to dusk. And they are very, very good at it.

    Lying is a prerequisite for the job.

    Shock…horror.!

  92. To all

    Please remember Harri gets these obsessions which last a day or two in which he will flood every comment he posts with his latest fixation. The other day it was Bat Soup, today it’s this Layla Moran, and soon it will be something or someone else and there is no deflection. But all things must pass 😉

  93. As Paul points out, NI could only be part of this scheme if the Westminster government signed up to it. Which it failed to do.

    Did Italy sign up for it?

    And why are the Italians receiving medical and urgent assistance from the Cubans and Russia, not Brussels?

    Brussels have added to the woes of Italy by ‘fining’ the poor souls 8 million Euros with 80,000 euros a day added interest.

    The EU is just so good..

  94. Did Layla Moran the peer we should as you do, look up to as a tower of strength, warn the government before the event?

    If not, why not?

    It’s her job.

    It’s not her job. She’s an MP

    She warned the government that they would miss the ventilator scheme deadline as the event was unfolding and the government put politics over public health.

  95. Colm, on March 27th, 2020 at 5:10 PM Said:
    To all
    Please remember Harri gets these obsessions which last a day or two in which he will flood every comment he posts with his latest fixation. The other day it was Bat Soup, today it’s this Layla Moran, and soon it will be something or someone else and there is no deflection. But all things must pass 😉

    All but wilful ignorance it seems?

    😏

  96. There should be no deadline in the process of procurement of medical supplies to a tax payer funded national health industry.

    It’s a procurement process, Harri. It involves negotiations and contracts, suppliers and customers. It’s not some free-for-all in the playground. It doesn’t matter whether you’re buying cruise missiles, bridges or paperclips; if you’re trying to negotiate as a consortium you need to know who’s in that consortium, and how many units you’re trying to procure, before you start work. Of course there’s going to be a deadline.

    And the government has absolutely no excuse. They knew what the deadline was, and failed to do anything about it.

  97. It’s not her job. She’s an MP

    ?

  98. Masterson.

    There should be no deadline in the process of procurement of medical supplies to a tax payer funded national health industry.

    But there was and your government put politics above public health by ignoring it.

  99. An MP’s job is to represent their constituents by raising issues and voting in Parliment, not tell the government what to do.

  100. They are politicians, they lie for a living, it’s what they do, day in and day out, from dawn to dusk. And they are very, very good at it.

    When I hear people saying this sort of thing I want to weep, because it isn’t true.

    If you have only contempt for your elected representatives, that’s all you deserve from them in return. They are giving you more than that, Harri, much more. Your cynicism is ill deserved and does you no credit.

  101. Paul

    Why does a British government, or any government come to think of it, need to sign up to some EU something or other to purchase any medical equipment?

    We pay the money.

    Just buy the stuff.

    It’s not rocket science.

    Again.

    Did Italy sign up to the EU deadline agreement?

  102. All kinds of purchasing arrangements have deadlines, including sales of London Pride beer at Tesco

    The idea of this EU scheme was to organize as a group to make one huge purchase at the best price

    If there was no deadline how would anyone now how big the order was

  103. Masterson believes politicians don’t lie?

    They are proven pathological liars. It’s in their characters.

    Masterson, your misguided childlike faith in politicians does you no credit.

  104. All kinds of purchasing arrangements have deadlines, including sales of London Pride beer at Tesco

    The idea of this EU scheme was to organize as a group to make one huge purchase at the best price

    If there was no deadline how would anyone now how big the order was

    Yup, Phantom puts it more succinctly than I was about to.

    There are huge benefits both in cost and efficiency to purchasing as a group rather than individually.

  105. Why does a British government, or any government come to think of it, need to sign up to some EU something or other to purchase any medical equipment?

    Presumably because of those negotiations, contracts and deadlines that Masterson & Phantom alude to above.

    Did Italy sign up to the EU deadline agreement?

    I don’t know but I do know that the UK gov ignored the deadline despite being reminded of it.

  106. Yup, Phantom puts it more succinctly than I was about to.
    There are huge benefits both in cost and efficiency to purchasing as a group rather than individually.

    Who cares.

    If the NHS can afford to employ an army of diversity officers, inclusion officers, and gender realignment something or other earning vast salaries, then they are obviously not short of money.

    Fire the lot of them, actually do something useful, buy an ample supply of medical equipment. You don’t need or require the permission of some EU deadline for that, Then employ more frontline staff.

    Real frontline staff.

  107. The idea was to use bulk purchasing power to better ensure guaranteed supply and to keep the price down. The plan was and is a smart one

  108. Colm,

    “there is no deflection”

    Well almost – usually he has about 3 of these on the go, sometimes as many as six. He can, with difficulty, be diverted from one to any of the others.

    At the moment it’s Layla Moran, NHS diversity officers and … not sure what the other one is but I think the EU is hoving into view. Or maybe it’s nurses are angels. But it would be quite easy to get him to rant about liberals or Phantom or China or whatever.

    What cannot be done is to stem the flood. There’ll be a comment at 17.29, 17.30, 17.32, 17.33….it’s like the speaking clock, if it was drunk.

  109. Frank

    Yawn.

    Zzzzz

  110. Who cares.

    The idea was to by ventilators in bulk at the best price. Normally you’re anomg the first to decry the NHS squandering money.

  111. It’s fun to be against everything, to be a perpetual critic.

    You’re always right!

  112. What cannot be done is to stem the flood. There’ll be a comment at 17.29, 17.30, 17.32, 17.33….it’s like the speaking clock, if it was drunk.

    Jesus..Franks not bored then?

    😏

  113. I’ve got a similar friend back home in Belfast Phantom. Perpetually malconted with politics and criticism, criticism, criticism, never solutions.

    It’s political nihilism and the easiest thing in the world.

  114. It’s fun to be against everything, to be a perpetual critic.
    You’re always right!

    Particularly if it involves President Trump.

    😀

  115. Who cares.

    Holy cow, it’s like trying to reason with a toddler. I’ve heard more coherent arguments from a four-year-old.

  116. Paul McMahon, on March 27th, 2020 at 5:42 PM Said:
    I’ve got a similar friend back home in Belfast Phantom. Perpetually malconted with politics and criticism, criticism, criticism, never solutions.

    My personal solution with respect the NHS, is fire all non job pointless politically correct diversity officers, inclusion officers, and gender realignment ‘specialists’ and many other useless and pointless NHS employees, with immediate effect.

    Spend our hard earned cash poured into the NHS wisely instead.

    How’s that for a starter for ten on solutions?

  117. Holy cow, it’s like trying to reason with a toddler. I’ve heard more coherent arguments from a four-year-old.

    Holy cow…says a four year old.

    😏

  118. Old Holborn ✘
    @Holbornlolz
    The best way to help the NHS is not stand on your balcony clapping.
    The best way is sit on the sofa for a fortnight (and then fire all the procurement managers / diversity coordinators / art directors / gender reassignment therapists

    But, but, but…

  119. Long live Phil Rizzuto

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i99IIPdn-9c

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwGNDC1w1xU

  120. Who cares?

    You missed this part..

    Who cares.
    If the NHS can afford to employ an army of diversity officers, inclusion officers, and gender realignment something or other earning vast salaries, then they are obviously not short of money.

    Why?

  121. How’s that for a starter for ten on solutions?

    It’s reasonable but it’s counteracted by you seemingly not caring that the NHS has to pay more for ventilators by not buying in bulk with others.

  122. Paul

    It’s not reasonable.

    It’s a necessity.

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