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JUST THE 969 DEAD IN ITALY TODAY

By Pete Moore On March 27th, 2020

Italy has recorded 969 new coronavirus deaths, its highest daily figure in the outbreak so far.

It means 9,134 people have now died from the virus in the country […]

Spain – Europe’s second worst-hit country – has seen a sharp rise in the number of deaths but the rate of new infections was stabilising, officials said […]

In 24 hours, 769 people died, a daily record, taking the total to 4,858. The Spanish government has extended the state of emergency until at least 12 April.

UK deaths hit 181 today. It’s a significant increase. There is no prospect of any easing of restrictions. I suspect they might be tightened further in the UK.

83 Responses to “JUST THE 969 DEAD IN ITALY TODAY”

  1. The stampede continues and one feature of a stampede is that whilst stampeding, one cannot read and assess, so hopefully the regulars at ATW may take a moment:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/swiss-doctor-covid-19/5707642

    According to the latest data of the Italian National Health Institute ISS, the average age of the positively-tested deceased in Italy is currently about 81 years. 10% of the deceased are over 90 years old. 90% of the deceased are over 70 years old.

    80% of the deceased had suffered from two or more chronic diseases. 50% of the deceased had suffered from three or more chronic diseases. The chronic diseases include in particular cardiovascular problems, diabetes, respiratory problems and cancer.

    Less than 1% of the deceased were healthy persons, i.e. persons without pre-existing chronic diseases. Only about 30% of the deceased are women.

    Embedded link

    https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/sars-cov-2-decessi-italia

    2. Dati demografici

    L’età media dei pazienti deceduti e positivi a COVID-19 è 78 anni (mediana 79, range 30-100, Range InterQuartile – IQR 73-85). Le donne sono 2012 (29,6%). L’età mediana dei pazienti deceduti positivi a COVID-19 è più alta di oltre 15 anni rispetto a quella dei pazienti che hanno contratto l’infezione (età mediane: pazienti deceduti 79 anni – pazienti con infezione 63 anni). Il grafico mostra il numero dei decessi per fascia di età. Le donne decedute dopo aver contratto infezione da COVID-19 hanno un’età più alta rispetto agli uomini (età mediane: donne 82 – uomini 78).

    And…

    The Italian Institute of Health moreover distinguishes between those who died from the coronavirus and those who died with the coronavirus. In many cases it is not yet clear whether the persons died from the virus or from their pre-existing chronic diseases or from a combination of both.

    The two Italians deceased under 40 years of age (both 39 years old) were a cancer patient and a diabetes patient with additional complications. In these cases, too, the exact cause of death was not yet clear (i.e. if from the virus or from their pre-existing diseases).

    Bizarrely given how much it has fed the panic, a report in the BBC reveals the idiocy behind the current policy:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

    Every year more than 500,000 people die in England and Wales – factor in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the figure is around 600,000.

    The coronavirus deaths will not be in addition to these, as statistician Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, an expert in public understanding of risk at the University of Cambridge, explains.

    “There will be substantial overlap in these two groups — many people who die of Covid [the disease caused by coronavirus] would have died anyway within a short period.”

    It’s the very old and the unhealthy, such as the obese, who would be helped on their way by corona if it is an effective virus.

    The flu comparison

    In contrast, the figures put forward for flu – 8,000 deaths a year – is different.

    It is actually the number of deaths over and above what you would expect to happen in any given year.

    In fact, it is perhaps a little low. Public Health England uses a figure of 17,000, based on recent winters.

    Many more actually die with flu, but this figure gives you an indication of how many more die because of flu.

    An admission that flu causes death whilst corona would be an accelerant. So no apocalypse, unless you want to destroy the real economy – High Street / Main Street

    The economic hit is something University of Bristol researchers have now looked at. Their conclusion? Trashing the economy costs lives.

    They found the benefit of a long-term lockdown in reducing premature deaths is outweighed by the cost in terms of lost life expectancy from a prolonged economic dip.

    Trump is right – get back to work

  2. Ann Coulter provides a reality check for the panic-faction:

    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2020-03-25.html

    The scientists also disagreed in the 1980s, when the media and government went into overdrive to scare us all about AIDS. (1985 Life magazine cover: “NOW, NO ONE IS SAFE FROM AIDS.”)

    Surgeon General C. Everett Koop — as revered by the media then as Anthony Fauci is today — lied about the disease, insisting that “[h]eterosexual persons are increasingly at risk.”

    Speaking of which, here’s liberal sex symbol Fauci on AIDS back in 1983, when he was with the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, but not yet its director: “As the months go by, we see more and more groups. AIDS is creeping out of well-defined epidemiological confines.” (It didn’t.)

    In 1987, Fauci warned that French kissing might transmit the AIDS virus, saying, “Health officials have to presume that it is possible to transmit the virus by exchange of saliva in deep kissing. That presumption is made to be extra safe.”

    By 1992, after a decade-long epidemic with more than a million infections, the Centers for Disease Control could find only 2,391 cases of AIDS transmission by white heterosexuals — and that included hemophiliacs and blood transfusion patients. (“White” because AIDS cases among Haitian and African immigrants had a variety of causes.)

    Playwright Arthur Miller once told a story about a geologist who remarked that life was possible even in the vast American desert. All you needed was water, he said, and the largest reservoir on the globe was located right under the Rockies.

    But how would he get it?

    Simple — drop a couple of atomic bombs.

    But what about the fallout?

    “Oh,” said the geologist, “that’s not my field.”

    Today, the epidemiologists are prepared to nuke the entire American economy to kill a virus.

    What about the jobs, the suicides, the heart attacks, the lost careers, the destruction of America’s wealth?

    Oh, that’s not my field.

  3. It’s the very old and the unhealthy, such as the obese, who would be helped on their way by corona if it is an effective virus.

    So it’s really a blessing in disguise which will rid us of the untermenschen.

    Spoken like a true Nazi.

  4. Just had a short friendly buy distanced chat with my neighbor who is closer to 80 than he is to 70

    I want him to remain with us for a long time Allan

  5. But

  6. It’s the very old and the unhealthy, such as the obese,, who would be helped on their way

    There’s nothing more can really be added to that.

  7. A large percentage of the population in the UK, and more so in America Would be old, obese, or both,

    So I guess this guy wants many of his neighbors dead. Wow.

  8. Just had a short friendly buy distanced chat with my neighbor who is closer to 80 than he is to 70

    I want him to remain with us for a long time Allan

    I know a few oldies myself who are in good shape and won’t be going anywhere soon – but the fact is, and I don’t like to break bad news to people but, the fact is that we and they shall die some day and illness takes out the older folks on a strongly preferential basis.

    I note that every single comment is emotional, but none have disputed the assertions of the first two posts so stop the crocodile tears and address the central point as to why this virus of all seasonal illnesses has its own ‘death-meters’ in every country when the deaths by flu in every country exceed those from corona-virus? More people shall die from the consequences of this gross over-reaction than from the virus itself.

    As Ann coulter wrote:

    We’ll get no BREAKING NEWS alerts for the regular flu deaths (so far this season, more than 23,000, compared to 533 from the coronavirus).

    Nor for the more than 3,000 people who die every day of heart disease or cancer. No alerts for the hundreds who die each day from car accidents, illegal aliens and suicide.

    A country is more than an economy, but it’s also more than a virus.

    So Trump is right

  9. I note that every single comment is emotional

    No, just caring about our fellow human-beings. You might even say Christian. Unlike born-again Darwinist Nazis like you and Coulter. This virus is exposing the Nazis in our society, or maybe just encouraging them to expose themselves. Their friend in the White House is on record as calling them “good people” and is nailing his re-election chances on their approach.

    Coulter and other “Conservatives” want Fauci fired and I’ve no doubt that will happen soon. Then we will see their “herd immunity” strategy tested to destruction by a sociopath POTUS and his many acolytes. No death toll will be too high a price if it gets their man a second term.

  10. I’ve stayed off this thread but that comment even without reading the rest needs to be responded tooo

    Unlike born-again Darwinist Nazis like you and Coulter. This virus is exposing the Nazis in our society, or maybe just encouraging them to expose themselves. Their friend in the White House is on record as calling them “good people” and is nailing his re-election chances on their approach.

    You take an out of context quote that’s been propagandized to feed the insanity of TDS gits like you to Paint Trump and his supporters as NAZI’s…. well pound sand Peter

    This NAZI LOVER that is in charge of our country at this moment has acted decisively and saved millions of lives in this country and when all this is over while your fabulas leaders are trying to explain to you why your countries economies are crap and why all those people DIED in your fabulous healthcare system the United State will have a booming economy and less than 2% deathrate while the rest of will still be looking where to put the dead.

    Country, Deaths, Deaths/1M pop, New Deaths, Confirmed Cases, Confirmed Case Fatality Rate

    Italy 9,134 151.1 +919 86,498 10.56%
    Spain 5,138 110.0 +773 65,719 7.82%
    Iran 2,378 29.1 +144 32,332 7.35%
    Netherlands 546 31.7 +112 8,603 6.35%
    France 1,995 29.8 +299 32,964 6.05%
    United Kingdom 759 11.4 +181 14,543 5.22%
    China* 3,295 2.4 +3 81,394 4.05%
    Belgium 289 25.3 +69 7,284 3.97%
    United States 1,693 5.2 +398 103,729 1.63%
    Germany 351 4.2 +84 50,871 0.69%

    The only country doing better is Germany and that won’t last……..

    nazi bullshit

  11. sorry….. I’m just sick of that were NAZI’s crap

  12. Patrick

    Allan is a self-confessed Nazi, right? So I’m not accusing him of anything.

  13. true….

  14. Patrick

    Out of interest, how many virus deaths are you expecting in the USA this year? Is it a few thousand or a few hundred thousand or a few million? Your guy was predicting a few hundred as recently as this month.

    What are they saying on Fox? Has Tucker spoken? And will it be Obama’s fault? Or maybe Hillary’s? Because we sure as hell know it won’t be Trump that’s to blame.

  15. like I said sorry didn’t mean to go off.

  16. Tucker is the voice of doom on that…. no one will say and give hard estimates.

    If it stay’s at the rate it’s going my personal guess is less than 100,000.

    If it explodes over a million, I really don’t think it’s going to explode.

  17. I think people are getting the wrong end of the stick. What this guy Spiegelhalter is saying is that these people would have died anyway within a year. I referenced him before myself, here he is on the BBC’s (excellent) “More Or Less” programme, explaining it:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p087n42r

    So he’s saying that what appears to be happening is that we are getting a years worth of deaths that we would have got anyway. But we are getting them compressed into something like a few weeks. And he’s also saying that’s a catastrophe.

    It’s not just the old either, nor those with pre-existing conditions (or at least not obvious ones). But then we all know of young people that have checked out way ahead of their time for no apparent reason.

    I’m a little sceptical of this “would have happened anyway” theory though. The guy is a great statistician but statistics without physical understanding can be misleading. It seems at first glance that this thing puts a lot of people in hospital and ICU, and specifically on ventilators because a lot of them develop respiratory illness, in particular pneumonia. Is it really true that somebody – especially a younger person with no obvious underlying conditions, but with a pneumonia they wouldn’t have had otherwise – is dying “with” the virus and “with” pneumonia? Well maybe, but that’s not obvious to me anyway.

    As far as the economic impacts go, these could only be justified if a lot of deaths would be avoided, or the measures will be in place only for a short time. Both of those seem very plausible here. And lots is still unknown about the disease anyway. We are buying some time to figure it out.

  18. You can also read an explanation from the guy himself here:

    https://medium.com/wintoncentre/how-much-normal-risk-does-covid-represent-4539118e1196

  19. This is how viruses work. They infect and kill not all their hosts but just those too weak to put up a defence. This is nature’s way of weeding out the weak. A harsh form of words I grant you but, undeniable. When most, if not all, the weak have succumbed the virus abates. So like Spanish Flu, it comes suddenly, kills, and then disappears as quick.

    One cannot help think that this media induced mass hysteria over something that ‘just happens’ has a darker purpose ?

  20. Sack her….

    University Labour Party Chair Celebrates Prime Minister’s Corona Diagnosis

    https://nationalfile.com/amp/university-labour-party-chair-celebrates-prime-ministers-corona-diagnosis/?__twitter_impression=true

  21. One cannot help think that this media induced mass hysteria over something that ‘just happens’ has a darker purpose ?

    We will find out soon enough when hopefully this passes. Every single draconian lockdown law should be lifted, if not?

  22. Mark B

    From what I have read the Spanish Influenza epidemic actually disproportionately affecting young and healthy males with a higher death rate as it caused their strong immunity systems to overreact in response and killing huge numbers of them. It isn’t true to casually claim viruses only exist to kill of the weak and damaged.

  23. One cannot help think that this media induced mass hysteria over something that ‘just happens’ has a darker purpose ?

    Would someone who thinks that this is the case like to lay out what this ‘darker purpose’ is rather than ‘jast asking questions’ and leaving it in the air as conspiratorial specualation?

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JAQing%20off

  24. Mark B,

    This is how viruses work. They infect and kill not all their hosts but just those too weak to put up a defence. This is nature’s way of weeding out the weak.

    That’s not true at all. Different viruses and strains of virus react in different ways. And some viruses can kill more young people than old people.

  25. Frank ODwyer, on March 28th, 2020 at 6:41 AM Said:

    I think people are getting the wrong end of the stick. What this guy Spiegelhalter is saying is that these people would have died anyway within a year

    More important is…..

    Every year more than 500,000 people die in England and Wales – factor in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the figure is around 600,000.

    The coronavirus deaths will not be in addition to these, as statistician Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, an expert in public understanding of risk at the University of Cambridge, explains.

    This means that over the year there shall be no ADDITIONAL deaths attributable to Corona – I assume that should be ‘of statistical significance’. It’s not easy to make this point to people whose emotions are shot-to-pieces, Peter suffering terribly in this respect, and he needs sympathy…..and support.

    Peter – we’re here for you

    And now from academics at Stanford University – that’s a prestigious institute in the US…..

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-professors-claim-more-data-needed-to-know-mortality-rate

    Two professors of medicine at Stanford University published an opinion article Tuesday in the Wall Street Journal, suggesting there is little evidence that the coronavirus would kill millions of people without shelter-in-place orders and quarantines.

    The professors cited data from Iceland, China, the United States, and Italy, which is arguably the hardest-hit region when it comes to the coronavirus.

    “On March 6, all 3,300 people of Vò were tested, and 90 were positive, a prevalence of 2.7%,” the professors said. “Applying that prevalence to the whole province (population 955,000), which had 198 reported cases, suggests there were actually 26,000 infections at that time. That’s more than 130-fold the number of actual reported cases. Since Italy’s case fatality rate of 8% is estimated using the confirmed cases, the real fatality rate could in fact be closer to 0.06%.”

    Figures from the WHO to which I linked yesterday show flu as having a fatality rate of 0.1%

    I wonder how many shall die as a result of this lockdown?

  26. The professors cited data from Iceland, China, the United States, and Italy, which is arguably the hardest-hit region when it comes to the coronavirus.
    “On March 6, all 3,300 people of Vò were tested, and 90 were positive, a prevalence of 2.7%,” the professors said. “Applying that prevalence to the whole province (population 955,000), which had 198 reported cases, suggests there were actually 26,000 infections at that time. That’s more than 130-fold the number of actual reported cases. Since Italy’s case fatality rate of 8% is estimated using the confirmed cases, the real fatality rate could in fact be closer to 0.06%.”

    Masterson, the all knowing oracle.

    Are the professors wrong?

    Please, do us plebs a favour and do let us all know.

  27. One cannot help think that this media induced mass hysteria over something that ‘just happens’ has a darker purpose ?

    Let’s look at what is happening:

    1. small businesses are shut down and may not re-open. Within walking distance, two privately-owned coffee shops are closed and, if they fail to re-open, Costa Coffee’s place gains because the corporate-coffee shall survive, and then thrive

    2. people and business are loading up with debt, and loads of money has just been printed for that debt. The banks, as always, gain.

    3. cash is now viewed as dirty, electronic as clean. The drive to abolish cash has gained strength and once cash disappears, it’s total-control

    See 0.55 onwards “total control”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gwcQjDhZtI

    and it takes really stupid people to go along with it……

    https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/swedish-people-are-getting-chip-implants-to-replace-cash-credit-cards/

    4. Fear – create and promulgate fear, through total lock-step of corporate media, and just take a look at what the media are putting out.

    The origin of the virus cannot yet be ascertained – but the origins of ‘lockdowns’ are directly traceable, and certain people made money out of advanced knowledge of it

  28. The origin of the virus cannot yet be ascertained – but the origins of ‘lockdowns’ are directly traceable, and certain people made money out of advanced knowledge of it

    Which does appear as rather strange?

    The Americans, with their power and spying organisations, seem to know when someone has a shit.

    Yet now…nothing?

    They haven’t got a clue..apparently?

  29. Let’s look at what is happening:

    Do you also agree that what is happening could be the reaction to an absolutely randomly occurring incident? In this case a highly contagious virus?

  30. I worry for the small businesses near me. I think that a large number will never reopen. Many have no idea how slim the margins are for many restaurants, etc.

    There are a many coffee shops here, way more than there were even a couple of years ago. The big majority of them are independents, who are kicking Starbucks’ ass. They’re comfortable places for students to study and for adults to take a break. All but one remain open, but all will be earning less money for some time to come. I can make a perfectly good coffee at home, but I make a point to get my morning joe from one of them.

  31. Are the professors wrong?

    Please, do us plebs a favour and do let us all know.

    Yes, they are, Harri. As many actual experts have already pointed out, their numbers are completely wrong, and their conclusions garbage. The death rate in Lombardy from COVID-19 alone amounts to 0.05% of the entire population of that area – not just of those infected. Even if nobody else in the whole of Lombardy were to die for the rest of 2020, it would still disprove their statistical analysis. Since deaths from COVID-19 in Lombardy are still increasing exponentially, their figures are wildly incorrect.

    It is worth noting, incidentally, that the two professors are not epidemiologists or virologists. Though medically qualified they are economists of healthcare. Relevant expertise matters a great deal.

  32. It is worth noting, incidentally, that the two professors are not epidemiologists or virologists.

    And neither are you.

  33. As many actual experts have already pointed out, their numbers are completely wrong, and their conclusions garbage.

    Have you link to that?

    I will give it a good read, and make my own mind up from there.

    Many thanks.

  34. Do you also agree that what is happening could be the reaction to an absolutely randomly occurring incident? In this case a highly contagious virus?

    Yes, but it’s unlikely for no big events are random

    “World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, whether it is to do with national issues or commerce; and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings.”

    ― Denis Healey

  35. Many big events are random.

    The world weary thought that ” everything happens for a reason “ is dumb.

  36. It is worth noting, incidentally, that the two professors are not epidemiologists or virologists.

    And neither are you.

    It is difficult to work out what the hell you’re arguing about, Harri. On the one hand you agree that the virus is a serious threat to life, but then up you pop with some crap that Allan has posted and demand to know why it’s wrong. It’s almost as if there’s some part of your brain that isn’t satisfied by the truth. Can we at least agree that it’s a new virus, that it’s serious and more dangerous than flu? I don’t see any point in picking fights over it.

  37. Masterson.

    Harri, on March 28th, 2020 at 7:15 PM Said:

    As many actual experts have already pointed out, their numbers are completely wrong, and their conclusions garbage.
    Have you link to that?
    I will give it a good read, and make my own mind up from there.
    Many thanks.

    Many thanks..

  38. The dancing boy looks up to Allan as a father figure.

    Expect much more of such comments.

  39. Masterson.

    Who are these experts who have pointed out those professors are wrong?

    I’m open to persuasion here.

    Please, post the links you obtained that information from, I will take the time out and give it a good read, and make a further judgment from there.

  40. Phantom, on March 28th, 2020 at 7:27 PM Said:
    The dancing boy looks up to Allan as a father figure.

    Yawn..Zzzzzzzzzz

    The robot is awake..

  41. As shown recently, here are the numbers from the WHO

    That’s an album – The Who: By Numbers

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=ohO8eAwi_po&feature=emb_logo

    WHO numbers for Corona fatality are 3.4% versus 0.1% for seasonal flu.

    However, the COV mortality rate was calculated using deaths/confirmed cases (3.4%) whereas the flu mortality rate was calculated using deaths/estimated cases (0.1%). Obviously the ‘estimated cases’ is far greater than confirmed cases. When deaths/confirmed cases is used for flu, the mortality figure is 10% and these are from WHO figures

    Anyway, here’s a virologist who should meet masterson’s strict criteria

    https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/

    Dr Joel Kettner s professor of Community Health Sciences and Surgery at Manitoba University, former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba province and Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases.

    What he says:

    I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.

    OK – unqualified: not a ‘virologist’

    Dr John Ioannidis Professor of Medicine, of Health Research and Policy and of Biomedical Data Science, at Stanford University School of Medicine and a Professor of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. He is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Center, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS).

    What he says

    If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average.

    OK – unqualified: not a virologist

    Dr Yoram Lass is an Israeli physician, politician and former Director General of the Health Ministry. He also worked as Associate Dean of the Tel Aviv University Medical School and during the 1980s presented the science-based television show Tatzpit.

    What he says:

    Italy is known for its enormous morbidity in respiratory problems, more than three times any other European country. In the US about 40,000 people die in a regular flu season and so far 40-50 people have died of the coronavirus, most of them in a nursing home in Kirkland, Washington.

    […]

    In every country, more people die from regular flu compared with those who die from the coronavirus.

    OK – unqualified: not a virologist

    Dr Pietro Vernazza is a Swiss physician specialising Infectious Diseases at the Cantonal Hospital St. Gallen and Professor of Health Policy.

    What he says:

    We have reliable figures from Italy and a work by epidemiologists, which has been published in the renowned science journal ‹Science›, which examined the spread in China. This makes it clear that around 85 percent of all infections have occurred without anyone noticing the infection. 90 percent of the deceased patients are verifiably over 70 years old, 50 percent over 80 years.

    […]

    In Italy, one in ten people diagnosed die, according to the findings of the Science publication, that is statistically one of every 1,000 people infected. Each individual case is tragic, but often – similar to the flu season – it affects people who are at the end of their lives.

    […]

    If we close the schools, we will prevent the children from quickly becoming immune.

    OK – unqualified: not a virologist

    Prof. Hendrik Streeck is a German HIV researcher, epidemiologist and clinical trialist. He is professor of virology, and the director of the Institute of Virology and HIV Research, at Bonn University.

    What he says:

    The new pathogen is not that dangerous, it is even less dangerous than Sars-1. The special thing is that Sars-CoV-2 replicates in the upper throat area and is therefore much more infectious because the virus jumps from throat to throat, so to speak. But that is also an advantage: Because Sars-1 replicates in the deep lungs, it is not so infectious, but it definitely gets on the lungs, which makes it more dangerous.

    […]

    You also have to take into account that the Sars-CoV-2 deaths in Germany were exclusively old people. In Heinsberg, for example, a 78-year-old man with previous illnesses died of heart failure, and that without Sars-2 lung involvement. Since he was infected, he naturally appears in the Covid 19 statistics. But the question is whether he would not have died anyway, even without Sars-2.

    I’VE FOUND HIM – AN EPIDEMIOLOGIST!!!!

    I’ll give mysteron his jew – he does plough his furrow

  42. However, the COV mortality rate was calculated using deaths/confirmed cases (3.4%) whereas the flu mortality rate was calculated using deaths/estimated cases (0.1%). Obviously the ‘estimated cases’ is far greater than confirmed cases. When deaths/confirmed cases is used for flu, the mortality figure is 10% and these are from WHO figures
    Anyway, here’s a virologist who should meet masterson’s strict criteria

    But not Phantoms criteria probably.

    Phantoms wilful ignorance knows no bounds.

    Phantom. Laughing boy, are these figures incorrect?

  43. Phantom. Laughing boy, are these figures incorrect?

    And before you at least weakly attempt to engage your already weakened excuse for a brain…

    Please, don’t mention Alex Jones, or Trump.

    You’re boring enough as it is.

  44. Yes, but it’s unlikely for no big events are random

    Rubbish.

  45. Phantom.

    One more thing.

    Judging the way, New York finds itself in, with the horrendous spread of Covid-19.

    Do you still think (putting your self righteous virtue signalling) to one side for a nano second, showing solidarity and visiting local restaurants was really such a grand idea after all?

    You might be immortal, but normal people are not so lucky.

  46. Masterson.

    Any luck with those links?

    Harri, on March 28th, 2020 at 7:30 PM Said:

    Masterson.

    Who are these experts who have pointed out those professors are wrong?
    I’m open to persuasion here.
    Please, post the links you obtained that information from, I will take the time out and give it a good read, and make a further judgment from there.

  47. Marc Lipsitch – Harvard professor of epidemiology, who is both an epidemiologist and a microbiologist, describes the article as drivel.

    I was going to answer in more detail, Harri, but I refuse to piss away my Saturday night arguing with the Harri/Allan tag team. Every time one of you posts a new piece of crap and I debunk it you come back with more. It’s exhausting.

  48. Correct

    The conspiracy guys have nothing better to do.

    This is one of the downsides of the modern internet, these idiots find one another so easily now, and they confirm one another’s statements against gravity and the world being round, etc.

  49. Judging the way, New York finds itself in, with the horrendous spread of Covid-19.

    Harri, you seem incapable of making your mind up whether this disease is a disaster or its effects have been wildly overestimated. Take a break from your computer and have a drink and watch some TV. You’re picking fights with everybody, and for absolutely no reason.

  50. Masterson.

    I don’t need a link to one professor with his credentials.

    Or a pointless a twitter feed link.

    You stated “experts”

    Not one expert.

    Well? Who are they?

    Waste your Saturday night on trying to wriggle out of that one oh great misguided, misinformed oracle.

  51. Masterson.

    How are getting on on with finding any posts “it’s just the flu again crap” I have posted?

    Precisely.

    Once again, you are talking bollocks.

  52. Phantom, on March 28th, 2020 at 7:54 PM Said:
    Correct
    The conspiracy guys have nothing better to do.

    Says the bloke who spends most of his life on the internet.

    😏

  53. I was going to answer in more detail, Harri, but I refuse to piss away my Saturday night arguing with the Harri/Allan tag team. Every time one of you posts a new piece of crap and I debunk it you come back with more. It’s exhausting.

    Oh, poor you.

    It must be exhausting being all self righteous, and right all the time..

    My heart bleeds.

  54. Some threads can go on a bit.

  55. Masterson.

    It’s all in your tiny mind.

    You have never, ever, debunked…fuck all.

  56. Yes Pete.

    But they are fun..

  57. Let’s get this out into the open instead of all this pedantry:

    Harri, have you compared the virus to flu?

  58. Trying to pin Harri down is like trying to nail jelly to a wall 😉

  59. Colm

    So why bother trying?

    You know you will come off worse.

    I did say, stop trying to be all clever..and stuff, it doesn’t suit you.

    Know your capabilities.

  60. Harri, have you compared the virus to flu?

    Have you?

    I have never, no matter what masterson bullshits about, ever compared Covid-19 to flu.

  61. Have you?

    No. I haven’t.

    I have never, no matter what masterson bullshits about, ever compared Covid-19 to flu.

    Okay. Then how about stop posting post after post after post about links?

  62. Colm, on March 28th, 2020 at 8:12 PM Said:
    Trying to pin Harri down is like trying to nail jelly to a wall 😉

    Colm.

    Talking about nailing jelly to a wall?

    How are you getting on posting evidence that London is as safe as Suffolk?

    Precisely.

  63. Okay. Then how about stop posting post after post after post about links?

    Because masterson the all knowing oracle was bullshitting.

    I asked for links to these “experts”.

    And finally after many requests, got some link to one expert which showed his credentials, and a Twitter feed account. It most certainly didn’t Answer the original question by any means, not even close.

    Paul.

    What’s you view on Twitter feed links?

    I do know by the way.

  64. Okay. Then how about stop posting post after post after post about links?

    Why?

    Are you being forced to read them?

    Until it’s your decision, I will post whatever I please.

    Thanks.

  65. Okay, we’ve established that you’ve never compared Corona to flu. Now Masterson can either refute that or not.

    What’s you view on Twitter feed links?

    It depends on the links. If they come from reputable sources with verifiable credentials they can be useful if they come from guys deliberately making stuff up or presenting opinion as fact, not so much.

  66. Are you being forced to read them?

    Until it’s your decision, I will post whatever I please

    Fair enough. Maybe now you’ll stop accusing others of allegedly repeating this ad nauseam then?

  67. *things ad nauseam

  68. Paul McMahon, on March 28th, 2020 at 8:29 PM Said:
    Okay, we’ve established that you’ve never compared Corona to flu.

    Thanks Paul.

    Much appreciated.

    Mores the pity masterson wasn’t as honest.

  69. I’ll give mysteron his jew – he does plough his furrow

    Lol!

    😀

  70. Harri, have you compared the virus to flu?

    I can’t speak for Harri, but I certainly did and do. Oh look – somebody else is doing so too in a very back-tracking style, probably getting his blame-avoidance plan in place before the SHTF

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

    – On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%.4 In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.2

    Who wrote this article?

    Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted
    List of authors.

    Anthony S. Fauci, M.D., H. Clifford Lane, M.D., and Robert R. Redfield, M.D.

    Anthony Fauci – who’s he?

    Oh yes – he’s the only man that certain idiots will believe, so they’ll have to believe that “the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza ”

    And this is why the US economy has been shut down

  71. “ may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza”

    May.

    Or it may not. Mortality may turn out to be about 1%, which is the central estimate that keeps coming up.

    Or the figure may be worse than that.

    We don’t know yet, is the point.

    That and the hospitalisation rate (which also appears to be at higher rate than flu) are some of the things that make it a risk.

  72. Frank – indeed, we can’t take the chance. Every year, let’s shut down the economy.

    I read that the film Contagion was shown on idiot-TV and the twitterati were saying that it shouldn’t have been shown as it was ‘insensitive’. I say that it should be shown to everybody because the penny will drop: people are not dying on the streets, or anywhere else other than where would be intended – hospital or home

  73. Mark B posted:

    When most, if not all, the weak have succumbed the virus abates. So like Spanish Flu, it comes suddenly, kills, and then disappears as quick.

    Spanish Flu killed more young and middle-aged adults than the old and weak. So quit with the ignorant neo-Darwinist bullshit.

    “The pandemic mostly killed young adults. In 1918–1919, 99% of pandemic influenza deaths in the U.S. occurred in people under 65, and nearly half of deaths were in young adults 20 to 40 years old. In 1920, the mortality rate among people under 65 had decreased sixfold to half the mortality rate of people over 65, but 92% of deaths still occurred in people under 65.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Patterns_of_fatality

  74. https://www.healio.com/infectious-disease/emerging-diseases/news/online/%7B85a3f9c0-ed0a-4be8-9ca2-8854b2be7d13%7D/fauci-no-doubt-trump-will-face-surprise-infectious-disease-outbreak

    Anthony S. Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said there is “no doubt” Donald J. Trump will be confronted with a surprise infectious disease outbreak during his presidency.

    Highly-talented soothsayer is Dr Fauci

  75. So technocrat elitist scientist (hiss) Fauci “predicted” this in January 2017? Time to fire that guy and put him on the stand. Where is Ann Coulter?

    What a shame he has no Jewish ancestry, that would have made a perfect conspiracy theory. But I’ll bet that the Daily Stormer is still on it.

  76. Oh I really and truly see a new conspiracy yarn was taking shape now

    This could make the name 11 tall tales look like nothing!

  77. 9/11

  78. what does the infowar crowd say………

  79. See Allan1125

    He’s got a blame Dr Fauci for the virus!

    Please Allan I’m begging you

  80. ahhh

    so I see said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw……

  81. The wheels are spinning in that Scottish head

    He wants to come out and say it he really does…

  82. Phantom – Dr Fauci has already written that corona is looking no worse than bad flu. You, of course, believe it to be a ‘pandemic’ – a pandemic!! Shut down the country!! Stay indoors!!

    Is this what you want to happen every year? There’s flu almost every year so what do you suggest?

    Given the outcome from the corona fiasco, I’m better qualified than Fauci. I got it right.

  83. “I’m better qualified than Fauci. ”

    Stand back everyone, Allan’s about to go supernova.

    We are privy to a great becoming.

    Before me, you are a slug in the sun. You are privy to a great becoming, but you recognize nothing. You are an ant in the afterbirth. It is in your nature to do one thing correctly: Tremble. But fear is not what you owe me. No, Lounds… you and the others — you owe me awe!