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WE GOTTA GET OUT OF THIS PLACE

By Pete Moore On March 28th, 2020

While scientists speculate that the coronavirus could be with us for months to come, Dr Jenny Harries, Deputy Chief Medical Officer for England, has said cases could peak over Easter and then begin to fall if the public follows social distancing measures.

Easter weekend is in two weeks. The UK peak was originally estimated for the end of May. So we’ve brought it forward. Let’s assume a peak in a fortnight. What then? We have to leave hibernation at some point. If most people have not been infected and have no defence, back comes the epidemic. We can’t keep on shutting down and opening up the economy, but we can’t stay at home until a vaccine is available.

So how do we get out of it?

83 Responses to “WE GOTTA GET OUT OF THIS PLACE”

  1. So how do we get out of it?

    We just stop playing along with the exercise. Fauci is writing that covid-19 is no worse that a bad influenza, but I’ll wager that it isn’t even ‘bad’: it’s just the flu.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

    Anthony S. Fauci, M.D., H. Clifford Lane, M.D., and Robert R. Redfield, M.D.

    This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%)

    nejm – that’s New England Journal of Medicine, and I wasn’t aware that Dr Fauci is a virologist.

    What’s that? Oh – he isn’t a virologist. But, BUT surely only virologists are allowed by Phantom and mysteron to write anything on Corona?

    Phantom says – that doesn’t implicate Fauci at all. There were two others who overruled his advice to close down the entire world until this flu deadly murderous virus is contained

  2. “ Fauci is writing that covid-19 is no worse that a bad influenza”

    No he isn’t. Reading comprehension fail from Allan.

  3. Pete,

    “So how do we get out of it?”

    Every passing week brings more information.

    In two weeks we should have a better picture what we are dealing with and if the measures are working.

    The antibody tests also if they work and scale up should be a ticket out.

  4. Allan

    Believe that you are arguing with yourself and you’re saying that I have said things that I have not said

    Just another typical day right?

  5. Frank –

    I seems that the when and how of coming out of “lockdown” is as critical as when to go into it. The peak in a fortnight is very soon. In a perverse way I hope enough of us have built an immunity soon after.

  6. Fauci is getting his way out prepared so as to leave Trump with the blame for this huge big nothing.

    On whose advice did Trump order the shutdowns?

    “ Fauci is writing that covid-19 is no worse that a bad influenza”

    No he isn’t. Reading comprehension fail from Allan.

    I know that. After all, I showed so on another thread at ATW. Here’s what Fauci et al wrote

    This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%)

    And now the dispute between me and all others at ATW (I said ‘flu’ from the outset, as perhaps did Patrick – all others are in the stampede though Harri has stopped) now comes down to a question of ‘is’ versus ‘may ultimately be’. It’s still FLU

  7. here you go Pete….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJVpihgwE18

  8. A cadre of right-wing news sites pulled from the fringes in recent years through repeated mention by President Trump is now taking aim at Anthony S. Fauci, the ­nation’s top infectious diseases ­expert, who has given interviews in which he has tempered praise for the president with doubts about his pronouncements.

    Although both men are seeking to tamp down the appearance of tension — “Great job,” Trump commended the doctor during the White House’s briefing on Tuesday — the president is increasingly chafing against medical consensus. He has found support from a chorus of conservative commentators who have cheered his promise to get the U.S. economy going again as well as his decision to tout possible coronavirus treatments not yet approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

    “The president was right, and frankly Fauci was wrong,” Lou Dobbs said Monday on his show on the Fox Business Network, referring to the use of experimental medicine.

    WP

    The doctors and scientists- why listen to them, when you can take the advice of Lou Dobbs?

  9. Who’s.. Lou Dobbs?

  10. Sort of ” conservative ” TV news guy

    Was on CNN, now on Fox Business Channel

  11. Phantom.

    Oh…how …..interesting..

    😏

  12. WP….. leftist propaganda central

  13. nice link phantom
    we had an attack on “experts” over here during brexit, and on climate change
    some folks don’t like them scientists, i mean what to they know eh .. lmao
    so predictable by that bunch on monkeys over at FOX, made my night that
    sheer lunacy on display ..

  14. Pat only likes state media – Fox News, OAN, Limbaugh, Levin.

    For the foreigners here, OAN is a right wing challenger to Fox News

    They can do conspiracy theories. Perhaps they will be on Aberdeen TV some day

    https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/pro-trump-oan-pushes-wild-conspiracy-theory-novel-coronavirus-was-created

    https://www.oann.com/

  15. Allan@Aberdeen, on March 21st, 2020 at 11:10 PM Said:

    Oh – it’s exceptional beyond doubt. Governments and corporations are exceptionalising their reactions and power-grabs, yet the virus refuses to affect more than a high-end flu. It’s Wuhan flu. Flu can be a killer for over-80s but anything can be a killer for over-80s. Being over-80 is a health risk

    Dr Fauci, on March 26th said

    This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%)

  16. he accuses me of promotting propaganda and state media and then links to the most bias corrupt political site on the net…. you can’t write comedy that good….. lol

  17. Global cases
    Updated Mar 28 at 6:13 PM local

    Confirmed 657,434
    +69,476

    Deaths 30,420
    +3,511

    Recovered 141,419
    +8,979

    Global Deathrate still 30,000 LESS THAN the amount of people killed this year by the flu.

  18. the president is increasingly chafing against medical consensus

    Phantom – what is this ‘medical consensus’ to which you refer?

  19. For the foreigners here, OAN is a right wing challenger to Fox News

    OAN is great. It was bang on right about the Chinese Disease in January, two months before the Democrats and left wing media were still downplaying it and telling everyone to ignore “coronavirus misinformation”.

    Real conservatives and libertarians are natural watchers on the walls, the first to notice that the sea has gone out.

    Left-liberals are complacent, self-obsessed slobs.

  20. Fauci is getting his way out prepared so as to leave Trump with the blame for this huge big nothing.

    Allan

    I assume that you have checked out Fauci’s ancestry and have nothing to report?

  21. Peter – I’ll assume that he’s Italian.

    Remember – stay calm and don’t panic. It’s only flu

  22. When Fauci gets the chop we can be sure that Trump will do it in the most vindictive and humiliating way possible. Because we know he’s that kinda guy.

    Heck, he might even do it on a live news conference from the White House, just like on The Apprentice: “You’re fired!” and they will lap it up on Fox as always.

  23. Remember – stay calm and don’t panic. It’s only flu

    For the 115th time, its fatality rate is ten times that of seasonal flu and its infection rate is about three times. Stop telling lies.

  24. Peter

    Yes, and the usual suspects here will all applaud

    They will all say that Trump Knows more about the virus then Fauci does

  25. I was wondering how such a big exercise could be run because it needed hundreds of millions to go along with the premise, and then I recalled Edward Bernays:

    https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/481391-propaganda

    The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. …We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.

    Here’s Prince Charles getting put in his place by such a man that you don’t recognise:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2b23a7f5a738214c78c88d154612e7f79a8cc0dfc9a204389c46d2fdf8ba28ae.jpg

  26. For the 115th time, its fatality rate is ten times that of seasonal flu and its infection rate is about three times. Stop telling lies.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

    Anthony S. Fauci, M.D., H. Clifford Lane, M.D., and Robert R. Redfield, M.D.

    This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%)

    Peter – I can’t stop you being a very silly man, that’s for you to do. So please, stop being a very silly man.

  27. oh and here is a new great site for news

    https://justthenews.com/

  28. Peter – I can’t stop you being a very silly man

    Your own link suggests that this is potentially ten times as lethal as flu and much more infectious:

    “On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%.4 In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%)..

    The current study indicates an estimated basic reproduction number (R0) of 2.2, which means that, on average, each infected person spreads the infection to an additional two persons. As the authors note, until this number falls below 1.0, it is likely that the outbreak will continue to spread. Recent reports of high titers of virus in the oropharynx early in the course of disease arouse concern about increased infectivity during the period of minimal symptoms…”

  29. oh and here is a new great site for news

    LOL

    Fox has a right-wing competitor!

  30. Fox has a right-wing competitor!

    Let’s hope so. It’s long been an irony that the right has only had one monolithic broadcaster while the left has hundreds of the competing buggers.

  31. It’s long been an irony that the right has only had one monolithic broadcaster while the left has hundreds of the competing buggers.

    LOL

    The blogosphere is totally dominated by Rightards of all hues, from moderate like this one to the Alt-Right Jew-hating tendency which Allan invariably links to.

  32. Peter – the mortality rate of Corona is grossly overstated:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohO8eAwi_po

    WHO numbers for Corona fatality are 3.4% versus 0.1% for seasonal flu.

    However, the COV mortality rate was calculated using deaths/confirmed cases (3.4%) whereas the flu mortality rate was calculated using deaths/estimated cases (0.1%). Obviously the ‘estimated cases’ is far greater than confirmed cases. When deaths/confirmed cases is used for flu, the mortality figure is 10% and these are from WHO figures

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

    Every year more than 500,000 people die in England and Wales – factor in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the figure is around 600,000.

    The coronavirus deaths will not be in addition to these, as statistician Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, an expert in public understanding of risk at the University of Cambridge, explains.

  33. Alt-Right Jew-hating tendency which Allan invariably links to.

    Peter those are Leftists…… NAZI’S were Leftists/Socialists

  34. And the Klan? Are they leftists as well? Because Allan and Bannon and Trump have a real soft spot for the halloween costume brigade, “good people” and all that. Trump’s father was one of them.

  35. Oh for Christ’s sake, that hoary old rubbish again.

    Pat, Shepard’s Pie doesn’t contain shepards and The Deocratic Republic of North Korea isn’t all that democratic either.

  36. Peter – if….

    Every year more than 500,000 people die in England and Wales – factor in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the figure is around 600,000.

    The coronavirus deaths will not be in addition to these

    Then how fatal is your corona virus?

  37. Patrick

    Alt-Right Jew-hating tendency which Allan invariably links to.

    Peter those are Leftists…… NAZI’S were Leftists/Socialists

    Calling yourself the National German Socialist Workers Party, does not automatically make your politics socialist. As an authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, anti-egalitarian and extreme fascist ideology, Nazism falls on the extreme far-right end of the political spectrum;

  38. Allan@Aberdeen,

    Then how fatal is your corona virus?

    How is this Peter’s coronavirus?
    As I said from the beginning, so far it appears that the coronavirus isn’t that much more fatal than other forms of flu. But we won’t know the real figures until all of this has blown over.

  39. here ya go Dave….. I prefered his brothers writing, but this is a good piece.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8163587/PETER-HITCHENS-Great-Panic-foolish-freedom-broken-economy-crippled.html

  40. Of course the truth is there is little practical differences between far left and far right ideologies. What they have in common is the strong desire to use the State to guide all areas of public and private life. The only differences is in what reason they use such power. For the left it is largely the practise of controlling the command of the economy with the aim of creating a socialist utopia. For the Right it is largely to protect and promote society according to racial/National identity with the aim of creating tribal utopia for the chosen population group(s).

  41. LOL.
    Great minds Patrick. I’ve actually just finished reading that piece.
    Like yourself I was more of her Christopher, than Peter Hitchens fan.
    But to be fair, he does make some good points in that piece.

  42. Good point Colm.

    To quote Ferris Bueller
    “Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism’s in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, “I don’t believe in Beatles, I just believe in me.” “

  43. The trouble with the premise behind Peter Hitchens article is that we can’t really compare he outcomes of radically different methods of dealing with this crisis because most countries are following the strict social distancing/lockdown policies. No significant country with the virus already largely present is intentionally taking a different position which we could measure against the lockdown orthodoxy. Sweden s the nearest I can think of which hasn’t gone down the isolationist route strongly but it is moving in that directions and will probably join other European states soon.

  44. lol

  45. That’s a fair summary Colm.

    Tell me this, can someone tell me what all this contrary Corona medical opinion is all about?

    Is it to show that we’re all sheep, that the government is lying, that others that see it are more intelligent than we, that someone somwhere has some undefined abstract plan for the future that is is some unexplained part of etc ?

    What exactly is the point being made?

  46. Here is something to ponder……

    For those that want to submit to the Climate Change Policies of the New Green Deal.

    The current crisis in the U.S. economy is, in miniature but concentrated form, precisely what the Left has in mind in response to climate change: shutting down large sectors of the domestic and global economies through official writ, social pressure, and indirect means, in response to a crisis with potentially devastating and wide-ranging consequences for human life and human flourishing.

    What is under way right now in response to the epidemic is in substance much like the Green New Deal and lesser versions of the same climate-change agenda: massive new government spending, political control of critical industries, emergency protocols modeled on wartime practice, etc.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/goodbye-green-new-deal/

  47. What industries are being asked to shut down due to a Green New Deal?

  48. Paul

    I think it is simply that some people always think events are not as portrayed. They think the authorities/Government/Elite are always plotting mendacious and always sinister plans and so they simply won’t accept that the efforts being made to minimise the spread of this new virus could be honest and well intentioned. They won’t ever be convinced otherwise.

  49. Seamus, on March 29th, 2020 at 3:18 PM Said:
    What industries are being asked to shut down due to a Green New Deal?

    Oil, Coal, Plastics, All auto manufacturers that don’t make electric cars, and over a third of the worlds Electric Power Plants just to name a few…….

  50. “Oil, Coal, Plastics, All auto manufacturers that don’t make electric cars, and over a third of the worlds Electric Power Plants just to name a few…….”

    Plastics will still exist. They just won’t be oil based, or those that are will have to be offset by carbon capture technologies or carbon sinks. Oil and coal? So what? Industries die all the time. Most people would not be impacted if the replacements are put in place properly. Electric power plants have a natural shelf life anyway (they have to be replaced or shut down). Plus natural gas power plants may still exist, but transferred to burning hydrogen or biogas instead of natural gas.

    Plus there are huge, huge numbers of jobs in green technology.

  51. Seamus if you shut off the Oil the world dies….. well not the world just all the people living on it.

    Which is the goal of the climate cult.

    The conditions we are living in now are a party compared to how it would be.

  52. Biogas has the same carbon foot print as natural gas I think. Burning hydrogen is cleaner, but you must expend energy to make the hydrogen in the first place.

  53. Paul McMahon,

    //Tell me this, can someone tell me what all this contrary Corona medical opinion is all about?//

    I hope you’re not including me in that country medical opinion group Paul.

  54. Dave,

    “As I said from the beginning, so far it appears that the coronavirus isn’t that much more fatal than other forms of flu. But we won’t know the real figures until all of this has blown over.”

    So far it appears maybe 10x more fatal and that it might crash the healthcare system. It has also put much of the world’s population in lockdown or quarantine and paused the global economy.

    So that seems a bit different than “other forms of flu” (*)

    (*) it’s not even a form of flu.

  55. Some might even go so far as to call it “novel”

  56. “Biogas has the same carbon foot print as natural gas I think. Burning hydrogen is cleaner, but you must expend energy to make the hydrogen in the first place.”

    Which is were excess intermittent electricity generation comes into play. At peak wind you generate more wind energy that you need. Currently, in order to balance the system, you have to turn off generators at that point in time. It is why on some very windy days you will see wind turbines turned off (which seems counter intuitive). The goal will be to use the excess (ie don’t turn the turbines off) to generate hydrogen through electrolysis.

    “Biogas has the same carbon foot print as natural gas I think.”

    It doesn’t because the production of the primary bio-resources used to create biogas takes as much carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere (through growing plants etc…) as it puts into the air when you burn it.

    “Seamus if you shut off the Oil the world dies….. well not the world just all the people living on it.”

    The world, especially the developed world, is becoming increasingly less dependent on oil. And that is the goal of the green industrial revolution. Not to end oil use now. But to transition the world and the economy to one where oil is not needed because we create the same products without oil, the same energy without oil etc… As things stand there is not a single thing that can be done with oil that cannot be done without oil.

    It will be difficult. It will be expensive. It will require the redesigning of a huge range of things. But it can be done. And, like the response to this crisis, it needs to be done.

  57. very straight forward
    the graph has yet to peak
    see the yellow curve , bottom right
    here:
    https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

    that’s a bell curve allan, it doesn’t tell porky pies unlike your lame attempts
    down the other side it will slide down after peak
    that is a point to consider relaxation, but as frank and petem pointed out
    if we go too quick the graph can start up again
    wuhan seem to be doing ok ,slowly but surely
    so we need to focus all eyes on the peak and the bell curve

    bell-end statements and hyperlinks don’t help us at all
    or arguing about the name, is it a virus, no
    we know almost precisely how this will behave
    ~ofc vulnerable cities like NY, London are having a very steep curve
    due entirely to pop density and transport systems

    summary:
    observer the bell-curve, don’t jabber like a bell-end
    Kurt virologist 🙂
    nah just know my poisson distribution from A’level and uni maths
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisson_distribution

  58. Flu or not – and for what it’s worth – I heard a pneumologist today say that there are different degrees of infection that greatly influence the victim’s chances of falling seriously ill or dying. It isn’t just a matter of being infected or not infected. Your system will be better able to handle a more minor load and adapt to it before it develops into a full-blown infection.
    This is related to inhalation of the virus thru the nose or the mouth, where the former will reduce the impact on the lungs more than direct inhalation thru the mouth.

    Perhaps worth considering by those who’s job requires them to move about. (also another reason for some fools here to keep their mouths shut), and seems to suggest that those masks benefit the wearer after all.

    Also: infected people have a kind of “aura” (I forget the medical term he used) of infection around them, again strength depending on the degree of their infection. Thus the 6-ft distance rule: the infected person doesn’t have to sneeze or cough to transmit the virus.

  59. I read something along those lines today too Noel. A suggestion that if an individual is infected with a small amount of the virus and avoids further infection their body can process and fend it off fairly well. Almost an invitation to attempt a form of cautious natural immunisation !

  60. Charles

    Gov Cuomo today made the same point that you made a couple of days ago – that the stay at home rules in some states Should not be referred to as “shelter in place “

  61. Phantom

    That shows how Cuomo is on his toes when it comes to “words have meaning.”

  62. Phantom

    That shows how Cuomo is on his toes when it comes to “words have meaning.”

  63. Yep

  64. CNN is interviewing nurses who work at the Washington State nursing home which saw the first cluster

    They all say that they saw redeye in patients who had coronavirus

    Red eye they say is not listed as a symptom on the CDC website

  65. I hope you’re not including me in that contrary medical opinion group Paul.

    I haven’t read every single comment Dave but I was immediately thinking of Pat & Allan.

  66. Noel,

    “infected people have a kind of “aura” (I forget the medical term he used) of infection around them, again strength depending on the degree of their infection. Thus the 6-ft distance rule: the infected person doesn’t have to sneeze or cough to transmit the virus.”

    I went for a cycle today down the seafront, up ahead in the distance was a vaper. You could literally see the 6 ft rule in operation although I am no longer sure 6 feet is enough!

  67. Three members of the NYPD have now died From the virus ; and hundreds are infected

  68. Frank ODwyer,

    //So far it appears maybe 10x more fatal and that it might crash the healthcare system. It has also put much of the world’s population in lockdown or quarantine and paused the global economy.//

    Not everyone with medical expertise agrees with the 10 times figure Frank.
    It’s too early to say. If by the end of the first year we have a worldwide death toll of 5 million then yes, it would be 10 times worse the normal flu.

    I don’t know why you’re quoting the fact that it could crash the healthcare system to me Frank, because I’ve already agreed with that multiple times in multiple posts.

  69. I wonder if the statistics being released by various medical authorities around the world concerning deaths are based on all individuals who have died testing positive for Covid 19 or deaths where they have judged it was the Coronavirus that caused the mortality ?

  70. That’s a good question Colm.

  71. Dave,

    “Not everyone with medical expertise agrees with the 10 times figure Frank.”

    That’s why i said maybe. There’s a lot of uncertainty.

    But at this point nobody can say it is anything like normal flu with a straight face.

    There is nothing normal about this.

  72. Phantom, on March 29th, 2020 at 7:23 PM Said:
    Three members of the NYPD have now died From the virus ; and hundreds are infected

    over 700

  73. Not good

  74. Frank ODwyer,

    But at this point nobody can say it is anything like normal flu with a straight face.

    There is nothing normal about this.

    I never said this is like normal Flu Frank.

  75. I checked the death figures for the US before I took my nap. They increased by 200 while I was asleep to 2300 and change. This thing is starting to really get going.

  76. I would be quite concerned about Louisiana and Mississippi in that general area especially…

  77. Colm –

    That’s the question. Dying of Covid 19 is not the same as dying with it. The eggheads will be pouring over that data for years.

  78. Would you be able to have coronavirus and the normal flu at the same time?

    I would certainly imagine so?

  79. Tip if the hat to DV..

    Crucial reading…

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think

  80. Phantom,

    I guess so but the chances of having both would be slim, just based on the maths of it.

    Eg if it were a 1 in a 1000 chance of having flu & the same of having coronavirus, then it’s a one in million chance of having both (as long as the chances of getting either are independent)

  81. So far it appears maybe 10x more fatal and that it might crash the healthcare system. It has also put much of the world’s population in lockdown or quarantine and paused the global economy.

    No Frank – governments put much of the world’s population in lockdown. Nobody is dying in the streets and most of those who are dying in hospital were already in hospital for underlying conditions – over-80’s, on palliative care, chemo-therapy etc.

    https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/28/10-more-experts-criticising-the-coronavirus-panic/

    Dr Pablo Goldschmidt is an Argentine-French virologist specializing in tropical diseases, and Professor of Molecular Pharmacology at the Université Pierre et Marie Curie in Paris. He is a graduate of the Faculty of Pharmacy and Biochemistry of the University of Buenos Aires and Faculty of Medicine of the Hospital Center of Pitié-Salpetrière, Paris.

    What he says:

    “The ill-founded opinions expressed by international experts, replicated by the media and social networks repeat the unnecessary panic that we have previously experienced. The coronavirus identified in China in 2019 caused nothing less than a strong cold or flu, with no difference so far with cold or flu as we know , ”

    Dr Richard Schabas is the former Chief Medical Officer of Ontario, Medical Officer of Hastings and Prince Edward Public Health and Chief of Staff at York Central Hospital.

    What he says:

    Quarantine belongs back in the Middle Ages. Save your masks for robbing banks. Stay calm and carry on. Let’s not make our attempted cures worse than the disease.

    – “Strictly by the numbers, the coronavirus does not register as a dire global crisis”, Globe and Mail, 11th March 2020

    This is a useful record of the development of the reality-check

    https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

    According to Italian Professor Walter Ricciardi, „only 12% of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus“, whereas in public reports „all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus“. This means that Italian death figures reported by the media have to be reduced by at least a factor of 8 to obtain actual deaths caused by the virus. Thus one ends up with at most a few dozen deaths per day, compared to an overall daily mortality of 1800 deaths and up to 20,000 flu deaths per year.

    Ok – as is becoming ever clearer, the corona-pandemic is a hoax yet it’s a hoax which is being driven. Check corporate media outlets for the total uniformity of ‘the message’ and look at it against what independent experts are stating.

  82. Frank ODwyer,

    Eg if it were a 1 in a 1000 chance of having flu & the same of having coronavirus, then it’s a one in million chance of having both (as long as the chances of getting either are independent)

    Sounds like you’re making these figures up as you go along Frank.

  83. Dave,

    Obviously those numbers are just to show the point. If the chances were 1 in 3 for each, the chances of having both would be 1 in 9.

    Call the probabilities A and B if you prefer. The probability of having both is A multiplied by B (again, if independent). Whatever A and B are, they are less than 1…so A multiplied by B is even lower.