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Orange Lives Matter

By Mahons On June 2nd, 2020

Our national circus continues with the Clown-in-Chief using the US Military to remove protesters from the street so he could have a photo opportunity holding a Bible he doesnt read in front of a Church he’s never attended. Apparently his bone spurs did not prevent him from walking a block or two from the White House. At a time of racial unrest he posed with a carefully picked group of exclusively white people. The message, clumsy as it was, could not have been clearer.
At this juncture it is unclear exactly how we can restore our international standing and domestic tranquility, but voting this carnival creature out is clearly a critical step. I have no thought that Joe Biden would be anything other than a mediocre President, but that would be such a step up that I’ll vote for him without enthusiasm but with absolute certainty.
The issues that roil this nation existed before Trump and will exist after him. But he is unquestionably the most poisonous toxin we’ve ever experienced. He can be relied upon to make every crisis worse, to make every division wider, and to do more harm to this country than its enemies could ever hope to achieve.

72 Responses to “Orange Lives Matter”

  1. Someone posted a link showing RFK speaking to a group of mainly blacks on the occasion of the MLK assassination. The contrast, in terms of content, oratory, honesty and humanity, to the current infantile egomanic, and more generally to political culture in the USA today, is really shocking.

    (Could someone post the RFK link again please?)

  2. I have no thought that Joe Biden would be anything other than a mediocre President, but that would be such a step up that I’ll vote for him without enthusiasm but with absolute certainty.

    That’s a solid observation Mahons. Biden might be a man in a grey suit but surely even that in itself must be a better choice than an obnoxious, deliberately abrasive, intentionally discordant toxin as a president?

  3. I think its only fair to point out that it was right at last for Trump to act as President and give a specific address to the nation on this matter but he just doesn’t seem to be able – or maybe not even willing to find the tone needed to address the concerns of all citizens. Of course he can and should condemn the mindless violence looting and destruction, but to pivot his speech effectively into implying that was all its about now and not really respecting or focusing enough of his speech on the anger and sense of injustice that started this whole thing off, was the wrong call.

    It would have also been a lot more powerful and genuinely courageous if he had walked over to the protesters and spoke to them rather than just having them forceably cleared out of his way so he could ‘bravely’ walk to the damaged church building for that photo op.

  4. Biden is not a good choice, and he gets grayer by the day. It is possible that he will make a terrible choice for Vice President.

    Trump does not have it in him to make a good speech on this. He doesn’t have it in him.

  5. Historic St. John’s Church is the first church built in the city of Richmond. It was the parish church of Henrico Parish, and was established in 1611 at Dutch Gap. In 1741 the church and burial ground were established on the present site. For decades the church was known, variously, as the Henrico Parish Church, the New Church, the Old Church, the Richmond Church and the Church on the Hill. The earliest reference to St. John’s Church dates to 1829.

    As tensions grew between the colonies and Great Britain in the 1770s, Virginia held a series of meetings to organize its protests against the mother country. In March of 1775, the Second Virginia Convention was held here at Henrico Parish Church. Patrick Henry, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Peyton Randolph and other prominent Virginians were delegates to the convention. Here, Patrick Henry embodied the spirit of the Revolution on March 23, 1775, with his words,

    “Give me liberty…or give me death!”

    And Democrat RIOTERS LIT IT ON FIRE….. and Tried to burn it down out of pure hate.

    But the President going to Stand in Front of it holding up a Bible to remind these Animals what they are trying to destroy……. “It’s a Photo op”

    The message could not have been clearer……

    Mahons and his ilk… The Democrats of America. Want to Destroy what America is and always has been. They want to BURN our Churches and destroy our system.

    A very gross post Mahons

  6. Different St John’s Church, but don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.

    The President of the United States had the police and the military attack a peaceful crowd of protestors. They attacked them with potentially lethal weapons, and chemical weapons. So the President could get his photo taken. And you have no problem with that.

  7. Just even on a general understanding of geography did you seriously think that the President of the United States walked from the White House to Richmond?

  8. The St Johns Church in DC is a branch of that church, set up in 1815.

  9. just more American History YOU don’t know.

  10. It is not a branch of it though. Just admit in your rush to make the Democrats the enemy of everything you made an error. It isn’t difficult to do.

  11. I do appreciate you spinning my spin though. It just emphasizes many things, and not my lack of Historical or geographical inaccuracy.

  12. They were not ” Democrat rioters ” and mahons does not want to destroy anything.

    You are throwing a molotov into this conversation.

  13. It is also worth noting that St John’s Church in Richmond, where Patrick Henry spoke, wasn’t called St John’s Church at the time. In fact the name of St John’s Church in Washington predates the name of the St John’s Church in Richmond, as the latter was known by a variety of names until 1829.

    The two churches are in no way shape or form linked, other than they share a name and are both Anglican.

  14. The Parish of St John’s Church was set up by the members of the St John Church in Richmond because of the original church’s significant political power and influence. Construction of the White House after a decade had finally finished. The Church’s establishment in DC was facilitated by then vice President Thomas Jefferson. Who had a great love and attachment to the one in Virginia.

    but never allow facts to get in the way of distracting from any point you’re trying to derail.

  15. The St Johns Church in DC is a branch of that church, set up in 1815.

    You’re just making stuff up now, Patrick.

    As Seamus points out, the coincidence that they are named after the same saint means nothing. The only sense in which one is a ‘branch’ of the other is that they are both Episcopalian, like ~7000 other churches in the US. For somebody who loves lecturing others on American history you’re remarkably ignorant about the basics.

  16. “The Parish of St John’s Church was set up by the members of the St John Church in Richmond because of the original church’s significant political power and influence.”

    No it wasn’t. It was set up by former Episcopalians from Maryland who were now without a Church following the succession of Washington DC from Maryland. If it was set up by members of the Richmond Church why was it called St John’s Church, when the Richmond Church wasn’t called St John’s Church at that time in history?

    The St John’s Church in Washington DC set up by Thomas Jefferson was the St John’s Church in Georgetown, not the one in Lafayette Square.

    Again it is no problem admitting you were wrong. You seem to do this. You make and error and instead of holding your hand up and saying oops, you double down and make the most insanely stupid comments.

  17. Seamus is 100% correct.

    Sidenote: the architect of St John’s, Lafayette Square, Benjamin Latrobe, was born in Yorkshire and trained in London.

  18. Since it’s establishment Pew 54 has always been reserved for the President of the United State irregardless of their religious affiliation.

    A little History of the church that was burned.

    History

    From our organization as a parish in 1815 until today, St. John’s Church has been a powerful symbol of faith in the heart of our nation’s capital. St. John’s was designed by noted architect Benjamin Henry Latrobe to serve Episcopalians in a growing residential community in the neighborhoods in the western end of Washington.

    The cornerstone of St. John’s was set on September 14, 1815. St. John’s first service was held on October 27, 1816, and the church was consecrated on December 27, 1816. Beginning with James Madison, until the present, every person who has held the office of President of the United States has attended a service at St. John’s. Several early Presidents were communicants, as were more recent ones. Thus, St. John’s is known as “the Church of the Presidents” and is registered as a National Historic Landmark. Pew 54 is the President’s Pew, and is reserved for the President’s use when in attendance at the church.

    The architect of the Church Benjamin Henry Latrobe was also hired by Jefferson in 1803 to fill the position of “Surveyor of Public Buildings,” with the principal responsibility of constructing the Capitol’s south wing. He was also responsible for work at the President’s House and the Navy Yard. After the south wing was completed in 1807 Latrobe began reconstructing the interior of the north wing.

    but no the two Churches are in no way connected….. completely separate.

  19. “but no the two Churches are in no way connected….. completely separate.”

    Correct.

  20. Patrick, you really are impossible.

    Your original statement was

    The St Johns Church in DC is a branch of that church, set up in 1815.

    That was incorrect, as has been pointed out by at least two of us. Instead of retract, you doubled down by stating that

    The Parish of St John’s Church was set up by the members of the St John Church in Richmond because of the original church’s significant political power and influence.

    That was just as untrue as your first statement, and Seamus even demonstrated that you were confusing two churches which happen to have the same name.

    You have now reached the point where you are claiming that the fact that Jefferson appointed the architect of St John’s Lafayette Square to a completely unrelated position in some way vindicates you. Note that nothing in what you have just copy/pasted makes no mention whatever of Jefferson in connection with the church.

    You have been wrong throughout this entire conversation. Why don’t you grow a pair and admit it for once in your life.

  21. You people dismiss and just miss the connection of the Churches with the Founding Fathers.

    All the episcopal churches were connected, all the hierarchy is connected. The St Johns Church that was BURNED by Democrat Rioters was the Pet project of Jefferson.

  22. “The St Johns Church that was BURNED by Democrat Rioters was the Pet project of Jefferson.”

    No it wasn’t. Firstly they weren’t democrat rioters. Secondly. the church that Jefferson contributed to was the St John’s Church in Georgetown, not Lafayette Square.

  23. Is there any other US president apart from Kennedy and Trump who wasn’t a Protestant?

  24. You want to correct me on things that you have no knowledge of. Have you read the collective works of Jefferson ? I have, and there is a whole section on this Church.

    Jefferson would be labelled a religious fanatic in these times, but he was a man of his time, and the importance of God and The Church were paramount to him.

  25. Kennedy was NOT a Protestant……. but I’m inaccurate…..

  26. About the St. John’s Church in Lafayette Square, as opposed to the St. John’s Church in Georgetown?

  27. Patrick, I said “apart from Kennedy and Trump”

  28. All the episcopal churches were connected, all the hierarchy is connected.

    Not the same thing as literally claiming it is the same church as the one in Richmond, is it?

    FFS Patrick, it is impossible to respect somebody too proud to admit a mistake.

  29. In times of trouble at least Patrick’s ability to misidentify the Church and then obnoxiously continue to insist he was correct provides comic relief. That he is then repeatedly corrected by Europeans on American history and geography is icing on the cake.

  30. “Jefferson would be labelled a religious fanatic in these times, but he was a man of his time, and the importance of God and The Church were paramount to him.”

    Thomas Jefferson notably rejected Christianity, and while he did donate some money to the building of new churches he tended to hate organised religion.

    “Is there any other US president apart from Kennedy and Trump who wasn’t a Protestant?”

    Arguably Jefferson wasn’t a Christian, never mind any particular branch of Christianity. Though he was raised Episcopalian. Abraham Lincoln was born a Baptist but was probably an atheist. Andrew Johnson didn’t have a specific denomination of Christianity, occasionally attending both Protestant and Catholic services.

  31. Is there any other US president apart from Kennedy and Trump who wasn’t a Protestant?

    Noel, some have been Unitarians (notably both John Adams and John Quincy Adams), and therefore not Protestant. Kennedy is the only Catholic to date.

  32. Great thread here morphing into a detailed discussion about the history and provenances of specific America church buildings, but sorry Patrick, I will take Seamus’s postings as evidence of factual reality over yours yes even on American history. You remain still wedded to pushing every American ‘fact’ through the filter of your Conservation/Republican ‘truth’.

  33. I am not confused over which branch of the church is which you are….. this is the website of St. John’s Church, Lafayette Square

    https://stjohns-dc.org/welcome-to-saint-johns-church/history/

  34. “I am not confused over which branch of the church is which you are….. this is the website of St. John’s Church, Lafayette Square”

    Which doesn’t mention Thomas Jefferson. How ungrateful. He founded the Church (in Patrick’s mind) and they can’t even have the decency to have that fictional reality featured on their website.

  35. Jefferson and Lincoln had no particular affiliation as I recall.

  36. Jefferson’s religious beliefs provided a crucial foundation for his political views. Jefferson believed not only that God created man, and gave humans certain rights, but that the right to think freely for oneself—free from the restraints of ministers, dogma, and government—was central to people’s humanity. He argued that neither religion nor free government could flourish if members could not think for themselves. Forced belief was an oxymoron for Jefferson. For these reasons, freedom of thought, including the separation of church and state, was essential both for a true religion and for a functioning republic. This is why it was so essential to Jefferson that what he referred to as “freedom of opinion” be guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.

    As a result of both his religious views and his understanding of the essential role of free opinion in a republic, Jefferson became a strong advocate for religious freedom and the separation of church and state. During the American Revolution (1775–1783), with the assistance of James Madison and evangelicals who dissented from the established church, he helped lead the fight in Virginia for disestablishment of the Anglican Church—which he referred to in his autobiography as “the severest contests in which I have ever been engaged.” His Notes on the State ofVirginia, first printed in France in 1784, also urges a clear distinction between government and church responsibilities. Insisting that religious opinion was a private matter, exempt from government supervision, he wrote that “it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg”—an assertion that came back to haunt him politically. Jefferson also drafted the Virginia Statute for Establishing Religious Freedom, enacted in 1786, which he saw as one of his crowning achievements, asking that the Declaration of Independence, the University of Virginia, and the statute be the only things remembered on his memorial. When the United States Constitution was drafted, Jefferson was among the most vocal in insisting that a Bill of Rights, particularly protection for religious freedom, was needed.

    but Jefferson wasn’t religious he despised christianity….. lmao When writing the Declaration of Independence Franklin had Jefferson change it because it was to “Heavy Handed with the Almighty” …. never mind the truth. He hated Christianity, he raped slaves, he owned slaves, this man would never be involved in the establishment of Churches especially the one commissioned while he was VP…….

  37. Which doesn’t mention Thomas Jefferson.

    Funnily enough Richard F. Grimmett’s book St. John’s Church, Lafayette Square: The History and Heritage of the Church of the Presidents, Washington, DC also fails to make any mention of Jefferson’s role in founding the church.

    It does, however, reveal that the architect Benjamin Henry Latrobe lived in Pittsburgh between 1813 and 1815, working for the inventor Robert Fulton, and that it was President Madison who summoned him back to Washington in 1815 to assist with the reconstruction of the Capitol. His association with Jefferson ended long before St John’s was even thought of.

  38. People! People! People! You are entirely missing the point

    The Karen in Chief got her selfie and that is the important bit!

  39. //Abraham Lincoln was born a Baptist but was probably an atheist.//

    Wow, that’s something new. I would have thought he of all people would be the most pious Protestant.

  40. //”Jefferson’s religious beliefs provided a crucial foundation for his political views. Jefferson believed not only that God created man, and gave humans certain rights, but that the right to think freely for oneself—free from the restraints of ministers, dogma, and government—was central to people’s humanity.”//

    Actually, Patrick, that start is so badly written that a sane person should also doubt the content of the piece.

  41. Lincoln tended to deflect questioning about his religion. He was well versed in Biblical phrases and tone. He wrote about God privately but it seems he was at least skeptical. He certainly was uninterested in organized religion and would never have pandered.

  42. well Noel complain about the writing here…….

    https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Jefferson_Thomas_and_Religion#start_entry

  43. Jefferson was a theist, alough he was accused of atheism during his life and after. He was also not one who would feign pious devotion for public relations reasons.

  44. Whether Jefferson had anything to do with this church; whether he laid every brick or not; whether he attended this particular church every single day, or not – none of this has anything to do with the facts, which are:

    Democrats did not burn it down, criminals did

    and

    Trump had peaceful protestors tear-gassed off the streets in order for him to get a photo opportunity, and there are people on here, some who claim to know their American history and law, who have no issue with that.

  45. Nebraska Republican senator Ben Sasse issued a statement on Tuesday morning criticizing President Trump’s visit to St. John’s Church Monday night as a “photo op that treats the Word of God as a political prop.”

    “There is no right to riot, no right to destroy others’ property, and no right to throw rocks at police. But there is a fundamental — a Constitutional — right to protest, and I’m against clearing out a peaceful protest for a photo op that treats the Word of God as a political prop,” Sasse said. “Every public servant in America should be lowering the temperature and that means saying two basic truths over and over: (1) police injustice — like the evil murder of George Floyd — is repugnant and merits peaceful protest aimed at change; (2) riots are abhorrent acts of violence that hurt the innocent. Say both things loudly and repeatedly, as Americans work to end the violence and injustice.”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/sasse-slams-clearing-of-protesters-for-trumps-church-photo-opportunity/

    There are some Republicans who have spine. You can find them in Utah and Nebraska.

  46. you’re going to hold up Ben Sasse…. lol

    that’s rich

  47. All Republicans don’t take a knee before Trump.

    Some have steel in their spine, even now.

  48. Democrats did not burn it down, criminals did

    They weren’t Republicans, not a single Republican is Rioting. Everyone of these animal that bother to vote are Democrats.

    Democrats are funding these Riots, Joe Biden who in his speech today condemned the President for photo op never has condemned the violence. 20 members of his Campaign Staff have donated money to bail out the rioters.

    Your ignorance abounds.

  49. Patrick

    What bits of what Mr Sasse said do you disagree with ?

  50. Ben Sasse is an opportunist Colm.

    He’s one of those politicians that holds his finger up to see how the winds blowing and then that’s how he goes.

    He has taken manny stands that I agree with, and just as many that I disagree with.

    Sasse has no spine.

  51. I feel so much better seeing him hold the Bible. Now I know he is a moral man driven by family values and a strict set of personal ethics, Stormy Daniels told me.

    This changes everything

  52. And he fell out of lockstep here.

    Can’t have that.

    Follow the leader, no matter what.

  53. Colm, on June 2nd, 2020 at 6:43 PM Said:
    Patrick
    What bits of what Mr Sasse said do you disagree with ?

    See..

    Colm, is just wonderful at asking questions.

    But absolutely shit (and I mean really shit) at answering them, apart from the all so predictable boring childlike schoolyard unfunny moronic replies.

    You see how this all works now Colm?

    Colm.

    How many evidence based links,, have you ever posted to back up your shit opinions?

    Precisely.

    And you think Allan@ is the one wearing a tin-foil hat?

  54. Paul McMahon, on June 2nd, 2020 at 6:56 PM Said:
    I feel so much better seeing him hold the Bible.

    It worked for George Bush junior.

    It’s America.

  55. Harri

    I post my opinions, because they are opinions. You may not understand what that word means but I can’t help you otherwise.

  56. Colm.

    And unless you can prove otherwise .

    They will remain opinions.

    And you have the cheek and arrogance to “inform” Allan@ he is wrong?

    As I said, yes, you do have loads of opinions, you might at seriously rare times, even have an idea..

    What you don’t possess..is a clue.

  57. The Democrats are not funding the riots. Joe Biden has condemned the riots and violence and destruction. You can’t just make stuff up.

  58. Can you post the registration papers or whatever which prove your assertion that “not a single Republican is Rioting” please?

  59. Patrick’s contribution to this entire thread has consisted of nothing but false statements and unsubstantiated ones. He refuses to retract the false ones, or provide any evidence to support the unsubstantiated ones. The truth doesn’t matter any more.

  60. How is Ben Sasse any sort of opportunist?

  61. He criticised Trump. That makes him an unprincipled opportunistic in Patrick’s eyes.

  62. NYT ““I find it baffling and reprehensible that any Catholic facility would allow itself to be so egregiously misused and manipulated in a fashion that violates our religious principles, which call us to defend the rights of all people, even those with whom we might disagree,” Archbishop Wilton Gregory of Washington wrote in a statement. He said that the shrine’s dedicatee, John Paul II, “certainly would not condone the use of tear gas and other deterrents to silence, scatter or intimidate them for a photo opportunity in front of place of worship and peace.”

    Bravo for Archbishop Gregory.

    By using churches for photo ops Trump is debasing religion. Churches should not be backdrops for sinful reality stars.

  63. The Episcopal ( Anglican ) and Catholic clergy have condemned Trump’s abuse of their building and images by the president this week.

    He did not show up to pray, or to give or to receive comfort. He showed up to do campaign photos, yes, that is correct.

  64. and when Bill Clinton did the exact same thing holding up a bible in front of the same church for just a photo op your complaints are recorded where ?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZjLhWWUwAYYgQo?format=jpg&name=medium

  65. or their complaint either….. nope can’t find it

  66. consistency phantom consistency. If you condemn one for it you must condemn them all. Not just the ones you don’t like.

    You’re going to have to do a lot of thinking on just that my friend. Fair and Balanced application of the Rule of Law.

    It’s applicable to politicians as well you know. But especially to the dirty cops that do their bidding.

  67. I believe that Clinton was exiting a religious service that he attended.

    Trump went to the churches yesterday only as a grim photo op

  68. Did Clinton teargas protestors for that photo op?

  69. Of course its a daft comparison, and Patrick knows it. The circumstances and instructions given to the police which enabled this Trump photo op to take place are the issue here, and once again when Patrick says he supports free speech and the right to peaceful protest and when he claims he would hold Trump to the same standards he would any other President, it is so easily proved that isn’t the case. There is absolutely no way that Patrick would have supported a similar scenario where for example a group of Conservative protesters demonstrating peacefully against him had been violently removed just so President Obama could walk outside the white house to have a photo taken.

    If Trump had wanted to be a real leader and show personal bravery he would have walked over to the protesters and spoken to them explaining why he wanted to go to and support the church that had been attacked. Instead, having hundreds of police deployed to attack and move the crowd just so he could stand and pose with the bible without even speaking was just a pointless and pathetic gimmick.

  70. Is the ‘deep state’ a ‘failed state’?

  71. I love the idea of the ‘deep state’ – its like Narnia, I want to find he cupboard that has the secret partition you can open up , walk through and discover the magical wonders of the DEEP STATE.. 🙂

  72. Hey-ho..

    The last tool in the toolbox when all else fails.

    https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1267823160482643970