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Luddites

By Patrick Van Roy On June 16th, 2020

30 Responses to “Luddites”

  1. I would not call them Luddites. A Luddite is one who opposes new technology.

    These people would have a great deal in common with the Khmer Rouge or French revolutionaries. They want to force the world to start at the year zero, with no history not written by themselves.

  2. True

  3. no-one got murdered, lynched, or shot in the back

  4. irrelevent kurt. Its fanatic, yobbish threatening behaviour and criminal damage. Just because it wasn’t a murder doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be condemned. Your argument is like a woman having her purse snatched by a man and being told “Oh well at least he didn’t rape you”

  5. Its fanatic, yobbish threatening behaviour and criminal damage

    I generally agree but think this ‘historical year zero’ ‘erasing history’ ‘burning books and churches next’ is sensationalist, hyperbole. That Churchill statue in Parliament Square has been defaced and vandalised by almost every concentration of people that have ever gathered there and yet everyone is still aware of his wartime leadership. The Edward Colston statue was toppled and rolled into Bristol harbour yet people are ironically even more aware of his historical significance.

    I mean, does no one write history down? Are statues the sole vehicles of historical record?

    And no, this isn’t in defence of those who want to tear down statues but the language of emotional exaggeration does nothing for discussion but inflame it.

  6. colm
    what i wrote is an addendum, written to give perspective and should not be read as an endorsement of criminal damage

  7. Luddites is the wrong word Patrick, but I agree this is a disgusting after vandalism.

  8. I do agree the ‘topple the statues’ movement isn’t the precursor to a Khmer Rhouge style takeover of Britain. These toytown revolutionaries don’t at all have that power. But it is a pointless gimmicky distraction and I would bet my bottom dollar if you hade done a survey a couple of months ago involving a huge range of ethnic minorites and disadvantaged groups asking them to list the factors in society that upset or ‘oppress’ them or things that need changing I bet probably not even one person in the survery would have mentioned having to walk past a statue of some local minor 300 year old figure from history. Students in the debating chambers have the luxury of comtemplating ‘oppresive public symbols” – most ordinary people have far more other pressing concerns that need addressing.

  9. It is coordinated vandalism, with many of those excusing it actually advocating it. And many of those advocating it pushing for expansion of it. Statues, place names, holidays, school curriculum are actually all being targeted.

  10. Mahons

    All these things can and should be discussed as part of debate – but such unilateral actions by any one side are not justified.

  11. They are completely unjustified.

    But there are organized political vandals in America and the UK who don’t care about any of our polite discussion here, Who completely disrespect the law, police, And the authority of elected officials.

    The Question is how should these organized criminals be stopped from committing more crimes against the public.

  12. The best comment I read, by might have been by keir starmer, is there is a democratic process to be used to review things like statues.
    That serves to put a brake on rioters hellbent on criminal damage,( even though they don’t see it as that -IT IS ) whilst keeping the door open to change; but a change set with boundaries and criteria involving consultation.
    Of course for many they’re swept up in the rage, and need to be told they’re being heard !
    This approach by starmer and many others is a good way to proceed.

    I think there is a genuine anger that says:
    “Oh another review is it we’re having..
    well we’ve had umpteen reviews, commissions and reports into xyz
    and nothing has changed ”
    I think you’d be stiff-necked not to have at least some sympathy with that frustration !

  13. Nothing has changed is of course untrue. And if the democratic process does not provide undemocratic vandals with the instant gratification they seek, too bad.

  14. The Question is how should these organized criminals be stopped from committing more crimes against the public.

    Hmnn phantom I think you’re wanting to run around with a sledge hammer to crack a nut
    not dissimilar to the rioters. same energy , same anger , not that focused either

    we have a way , the answer to your question is better intel and law enforcement
    laws which already exist !
    But as paul has pointed out its a something of a fantasy to suggest antifa are an organised criminal network . Its much more likely to be the IRA model, local cells of activists from different hues and backgrounds that respond to different scenarios, depending on how much they drank the night before and if they can be bothered to get out of bed and journey to the place of the next smash site ..

  15. kurt

    What do you think actually needs to be changed here in the UK – Not America. ?

  16. less than the states colm, we’re not getting lynches and murders of black people are we ?
    cops don’t have guns here..
    but to be precise: these

    35 specific limit recommendations in the Lammy review. Implement them. There are 110 recommendations in the Angiolini review into deaths into police custody. Implement them. There are 30 recommendations in the Home Office review into the Windrush scandal. Implement them. There are 26 in Baroness McGregor-Smith’s review into workplace discrimination. Implement them.

    yes?

  17. The Museum of Natural History in NYC has a statue of Teddy Roosevelt at the entrance.

    A small number of criminals have expressed their intention of taking the statue down,. they were on local TV ( NY 1 ) this morning bragging about it

    Therefore, there is an NYPD squad car in front of the museum now 24/7 that would not normally be there. Diverting resources from crime fighting elsewhere.

    That’s where we are, in NYC and the US.

  18. kurt

    I wold need to read them all before agreeing. I would however differentiate between official independent review reocmmendations where the govt. has asked a group to investigate a problem and make proposals, and groups set up by special interest groups who then make demands to implement an already concluded and biased outcome.

  19. that’s has most things are changed though colm in fairness in our wee country
    reviews: challenged in courts, or special interest groups, public interest etc
    oh i haven’t read any of them either, but i know its them ones as google told me 😉

  20. Paul,

    ‘The Edward Colston statue was toppled and rolled into Bristol harbour yet people are ironically even more aware of his historical significance.”

    Yes but you have to wonder at why it was taking so long to remove by democratic means, and who was opposing its removal by democratic means in the first place. And why, ffs? Apparently among them, this charming numpty:

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/09/edward-colston-was-hero-says-golliwog-loving-bristol-councillor-12827969/

    Which clears it up a little.

    Otherwise, the statues seem to be a proxy for a culture war that pretty much nobody actually demanded and with mostly very confused participants. On the one hand some are toppling statues of abolitionists and in Nuneaton they’re guarding a statue of George Eliot.

    (are they “patriots” or is it an “Antifa stunt”, I leave that question to the experts that we’ve had enough of)

  21. The Question is how should these organized criminals be stopped from committing more crimes against the public.

    The way that they are in other jurisdictions. If they are committing a crime at the time they should be arrested where possible and charged if appropriate. If they can’t be arrested at the time then identification technology should be employed in order to make arrests later. Intelligence led policing and arrest tactics should be employed too.

    A small number of criminals have expressed their intention of taking the statue down

    Just on a lingustic and legal point of reality here. There is no criminal without a crime and there is no crime until one has been committed.

  22. good link frank, and good comment paul , aka felon-setting

  23. Yes but you have to wonder at why it was taking so long to remove by democratic means, and who was opposing its removal by democratic means in the first place. And why, ffs?

    I don’t know why Frank. As I commented to djyam recently, I have a colleague who’s a ‘true Bristolian’ and he told me that the Colston statue had been a source of division and controversy for decades.

  24. the Colston statue had been a source of division and controversy for decades.

    Probably among activists and student groups debating history but I doubt if ordinary Bristolians black or white ever walked past that statue thinking “oh I feel so oppressed and hurt having to pass this tormenting edifice” 🙂

  25. Paul

    It looks like ‘antifa’ or ‘blackbloc’ were active even in 14th Century Spain 🙂

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/16/suspected-14th-century-statue-fished-out-of-river-in-spain

  26. The guy I’m referring to is neither a student nor activist Colm.

    This from six years ago:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bristol-torn-apart-over-statue-of-edward-colston-but-is-this-a-figure-of-shame-or-a-necessary-9555333.html

  27. It looks like ‘antifa’ or ‘blackbloc’ were active even in 14th Century Spain

    Jesus’ sake don’t start him Colm!

  28. The guy I’m referring to is neither a student nor activist Colm.

    This from six years ago:

    Snowflakes – the lot of them 🙂

  29. Jesus’ sake don’t start him Colm!

    Its a bit too early for Harri. He gets so stressed out each evening here on ATW it takes him most of the next day for his angry headache to fade. Don’t worry he will soon be back banging on about Chinese bats, and Trump Derangement Syndrome, and those 2 Mew York sisters and mentally deranged liberals… and antifa of course.

    Have I missed anything out ? 🙂

  30. was wondering if their might be some creams or deodorant brands coming out of these words
    blackbloc , antifa , channel the profits into buying bespoke bulldozers and cranes for running up and down the country hoisting statues into local rivers. lol ( he jests )

    disclaimer: This post in no way endorses the wanton destruction of state property or coca-cola machines .