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Just a little fun

By Patrick Van Roy On June 27th, 2020

Def Fuhrer Joe has said if Elected President he will make wearing masks mandatory.

Lancaster, Pennsylvania, Biden warned that “no miracles are coming” and slammed Trump’s handling of the virus.  “Amazingly, he hasn’t grasped the most basic fact of this crisis: To fix the economy we have to get control over the virus,” Biden said. “He’s like a child who can’t believe this has happened to him. His whining and self-pity.”

Biden’s team has organized small events and enforced social distancing. Trump has refused to wear a mask in public, and his campaign says Biden is using a cautious approach to hide the fact that he can’t draw large, enthusiastic crowds.

“I know, as Americans, it’s not something we’re used to. But it matters,” Biden said of wearing a mask, noting he wears one “everywhere I go.”

The former vice president went further during an interview with KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh, suggesting he would use executive action or other means to leverage federal power and mandate wearing masks in public.

“I would do everything possible to make it required that people had to wear masks in public,” he said..

Will the Mask have to have an R or a D on them…… how about a Jewish Star Joe, or a Crucifix?

 

Posted in America, American moonbats, ATW |

66 Responses to “Just a little fun”

  1. masterson, on June 27th, 2020 at 1:24 PM Said:

    Will the Mask have to have an R or a D on them…… how about a Jewish Star Joe, or a Crucifix?

    Was a Holocaust joke really necessary, Patrick? Face masks are a public health measure, pure and simple. The Trump cult appear determined to turn them into some sort of badge of political affiliation. I do not have the words to express the contempt I feel for these people. Viruses and science know no political boundaries.

  2. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 1:36 PM Said:

    American moonbats – Very apt tag !

  3. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 1:51 PM Said:

    I do not have the words to express the contempt I feel for these people. Viruses and science know no political boundaries.

    Hmmmmm…

    Elderly people could wear RIBBONS to show they are social distancing when lockdown measures are eased further, SAGE scientist says
    Elderly people may wear ribbons to indicate they are social distancing in future

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445717/Sage-adviser-suggests-elderly-people-wear-ribbons-indicate-social-distancing.html

    Would they be yellow ribbons?

  4. Dave Alton, on June 27th, 2020 at 1:58 PM Said:

    Will the Mask have to have an R or a D on them…… how about a Jewish Star Joe, or a Crucifix?

    That comment is low, even by your standards Patrick.

  5. Mahons, on June 27th, 2020 at 2:00 PM Said:

    Trivialize the Holocaust. Patrick from Aberdeen?

  6. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 2:17 PM Said:

    Will the Mask have to have an R or a D on them…… how about a Jewish Star Joe, or a Crucifix?

    Unless it’s an N95 or full on SAS mask.

    A surgical mask you say?

    You might as well be wearing a sieve on your face.

    Dave.

    I thought you were into science?

  7. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 2:20 PM Said:

    Face masks do not protect you from COVID-19. It is much more important to wash your hands properly and avoid touching your face and eyes. Specific types of face masks can protect health professionals looking after people with the virus.

    https://www.bsuh.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/09/Cancer-Patients-FAQs-for-website-COVID-19-1.pdf#:~:text=Face%20masks%20do%20not%20protect,people%20with%20the%20virus.

  8. Phantom, on June 27th, 2020 at 4:14 PM Said:

    Harri still has no idea why the general public is being asked to wear masks in normal situations

    Hint : it’s not to protect the wearer

  9. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 4:18 PM Said:

    Trivialize the Holocaust. Patrick from Aberdeen?

    Are those Nazi linked words Patrick’s or this guy Ryan Fournier’s ?

  10. Mahons, on June 27th, 2020 at 4:36 PM Said:

    Well they are spelled correctly so it is more likely by Fournier.

  11. Phantom, on June 27th, 2020 at 4:43 PM Said:

    Patrick is a Virus Truther.

    He is here seeking Allan’s approval. The smiling nod from Aberdeen is being considered.

    Allan is the king of all Truthers, Pat is the apprentice.

  12. Phantom, on June 27th, 2020 at 4:47 PM Said:

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/26/us/face-mask-exemption-cards-doj-fraudulent-trnd/index.html

    The Latest Trumper Truther Product. Step right up, boys, cheaper by the dozen.

    (CNN)The US Department of Justice is warning Americans about fraudulent cards distributed on Facebook by a group encouraging people to not wear masks during the Covid-19 pandemic.

    The laminated cards feature an image of an eagle and say “Face Mask Exempt Card” in bold letters across the top. They appear to be geared toward people trying to skirt state and business requirements to wear face masks in public, or to receive service. The card also references the DOJ and the Americans with Disabilities Act.
    But Freedom to Breathe Agency, the group that posted them on its website and distributed the cards, isn’t a federal or state agency. It’s a Facebook group that says on its website it’s trying to stop face mask orders “from spreading nationwide and globally.”

    Why face mask guidance has changed so much — and how wearing masks can protect the economy
    Why face mask guidance has changed so much — and how wearing masks can protect the economy
    Its founder, Lenka Koloma, told CNN it wasn’t making any recommendations to anyone and the group’s mission is “freedom and personal liberty.” But she went on to say that people should only wear masks, “whenever they wish to be silenced and muzzled.”

  13. Petr Tarasov, on June 27th, 2020 at 5:06 PM Said:

    There are a tiny band of Covid Truthers in Ireland and they take all their talking points directly from their US counterparts. They tried to bring a case to the high court,arguing that Covid-19 emergency powers were unconstitutional, which got thrown out, and they have been slapped with all parties’ costs:likely to run into many tens of thousands of Euro. Good.

    They are led by two wingnuts called Gemma O’Doherty and John Waters.

  14. Phantom, on June 27th, 2020 at 5:11 PM Said:

    https://medicalfuturist.com/debunking-covid-19-theories/

    In case one of the local Covid Truthers hasn’t heard all of the tall tales, this I believe captures them.

    Allan, Patrick, harri please feel free to share conspiracies among yourselves.

  15. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 5:15 PM Said:

    Phantom

    I don’t see Patrick as a “Virus Truther” and he would never seek Allan’s validation on anything. Patrick’s issue is that he is fanatically party political. He has a deep loathing of Democrats and this leads him to make sometimes wildly ridiculous claims about them , hence his promoting this absurd ‘Nazi’ Joe Biden meme in his passionate eagerness to ensure Trump stays in office.

  16. Phantom, on June 27th, 2020 at 5:18 PM Said:

    He has said that the virus is the flu and that it’s nothing unusual

    How in the world is not not Covid Trutherism?

    The doctors and epidemiologists of this world certainly have a completely different opinion

  17. masterson, on June 27th, 2020 at 5:43 PM Said:

    There are a tiny band of Covid Truthers in Ireland and they take all their talking points directly from their US counterparts.

    Another prominent member of that inglorious group is Dolores Cahill, UCD professor and chair of the Irish Freedom Party. I fear that David Vance (who has retweeted her nonsense approvingly) is rapidly turning into one of the virus ‘truthers’. He has said that he will not wear a mask, and has been tweeting conspiracist boll*cks about Bill Gates and the vaccine. I often disagree with his views, but I never expected him to turn into a full-blown antivaxxer.

  18. Allan@Aberdeen, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:14 PM Said:

    Wow – COVID-denierism 🙂

    I suppose that it really had to happen. Whenever a Big Lie is put out and it gets called out as a Big Lie, anybody who points out the Big Lie is immediately labelled a ‘denier’ even though the evidence of the Big Lie is is readily available from those pushing the Big Lie.

    I looked at Phantom’s link at 5.11pm and it presents false narratives as claims etc. but one thing that it doesn’t do is discuss mortality rates and who the victims are are. These are available:

    https://www.studyfinds.org/study-initial-u-s-covid-19-infection-rate-may-be-80-times-greater-than-believed/

    UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. — It’s already widely speculated by medical professionals and pundits alike that the initial U.S. coronavirus infection rate was grossly undercounted. Now, a new study concludes that the country’s infection rate early on may have been over 80 times greater than originally reported. Moreover, infections across the U.S. likely doubled almost twice as fast as initially estimated.

    How did this happen? In all likelihood there isn’t one main culprit, researchers believe. Instead, a combination of a lack of tests, asymptomatic carriers, and people not recognizing their own symptoms may be to blame.

    If the number of infections is 80 times higher than currently reported, the mortality is 80-times less.

    And as data from Italy show, the mortality rate is around that of flu whilst the average age of death is 80-plus.

  19. Allan@Aberdeen, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:20 PM Said:

    Another prominent member of that inglorious group is Dolores Cahill, UCD professor and chair of the Irish Freedom Party.

    Dolores Cahill – and I’m sure that (((masterson))) shall confirm these to be one and the same

    Professor Cahill / Background

    Professor Dolores Cahill has degree is in molecular genetics and her PhD is in immunology where she was using antibodies and making libraries to try and improve the outcomes in cancer. She also spent eight years in the Max Planck Institute for Molecular Genetics in Berlin, where she led a group and developed technology that could look the specificity of antibodies and different diagnostic assays to diagnose autoimmune diseases. And, for example, with virus patients look at whether they were exposed to a virus or not.

    Her team back in the 90s looked at published antibodies and found that a lot of what was published was not necessarily correct. They were involved in correcting a lot of published research. Her research was quite disruptive at the time, and she quickly got awards from the German Minister for science and then was on the German Advisory Science Council, advising funding agencies the BAE and AF and still does 20 years later, and on the Advisory Science Council here for the Strategy for Science Technology and Innovation (Ireland).

    She was nominated to represent Ireland on the Scientific Committee for the Innovative Medicines Initiative in the European Union and since 2016 became vice chair. She was also involved in developing the meningitis B vaccine for Africa. She also worked in a class 4 bio lab. She has been working with a doctor who is advising the White House particularly on protocols for prevention and treatment such as hydroxychloroquine.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8381847/Now-know-coronavirus-not-random-killer-one-size-fits-lockdown-come-end.html

    Thanks to definitive figures released yesterday by Public Health England, we know that Covid-19 is not a random killer, but one that targets specific groups – namely the old and those with pre-existing conditions such as diabetes or dementia.

    The statistics are astounding: those aged over 80 are fully 70 times more likely to die of the disease than those under 40, while being morbidly obese increases your risk of dying by two and a half times. And fortunately the death rate among children is very low.

    and here’s the purpose of the hoax…..

    And when it is all over, we must do our best not to emerge into a ‘New Normal’ – in that dismal cliched phrase that suggests a dull, constrained future – but an ‘Old Normal’, as we seize back our former lives.

    Unfortunately, Karel Sikora is just a minor medic in a minor job with a minor CV…..

    Professor Karol Sikora is consultant oncologist and professor of medicine, University of Buckingham Medical School.

    All that matters is whether Dolores Cahill and Karel Sikora are correct. The evidence before us all is that they are correct. Nobody around us or near us is dying of Covid-19 beyond any ordinary mortality rate

  20. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:21 PM Said:

    Another prominent member of that inglorious group is Dolores Cahill, UCD professor and chair of the Irish Freedom Party. I fear that David Vance (who has retweeted her nonsense approvingly) is rapidly turning into one of the virus ‘truthers’. He has said that he will not wear a mask, and has been tweeting conspiracist boll*cks about Bill Gates and the vaccine. I often disagree with his views, but I never expected him to turn into a full-blown antivaxxer.

    Shooting the messenger again?

    Oh dear..

  21. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:24 PM Said:

    Allan, Patrick, harri please feel free to share conspiracies among yourselves.

    Wow!

    Phantoms benevolence is only matched by his childlike naivety.

    Well, shucks, gee…thanks Phantom.

  22. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:26 PM Said:

    Phantom, on June 27th, 2020 at 4:14 PM Said:
    Harri still has no idea why the general public is being asked to wear masks in normal situations
    Hint : it’s not to protect the wearer

    Less haste, more reading required Phantom.

    Will the Mask have to have an R or a D on them…… how about a Jewish Star Joe, or a Crucifix?
    Unless it’s an N95 or full on SAS mask.
    A surgical mask you say?
    You might as well be wearing a sieve on your face.

    Poor, poor Phantom.

  23. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:27 PM Said:

    Harri

    Please have more respect for yourself than to be Allan’s faithful pom pom waving cheerleader.

  24. masterson, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:29 PM Said:

    Harri has mainly demonstrated over the last 48 hrs that he doesn’t understand the meaning of the term ‘shooting the messenger’.

  25. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:30 PM Said:

    Colm

    Huh?

    Please…explain yourself.

  26. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:33 PM Said:

    I think my meaning is quiet clear, Harri.

  27. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:34 PM Said:

    Masterson.

    You have mainly demonstrated over far more than the last 48 hours, that shooting the messenger is all you do.

    By the way. How did you get on with explaining to LI on just how wrong he is one everything,and just why?

    I have been keeping tabs, but you appear to have not grown a set of balls yet to back up your shooting the messenger waffle here n ATW.

  28. masterson, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:38 PM Said:

    Nobody around us or near us is dying of Covid-19 beyond any ordinary mortality rate

    It’s almost as if anecdotal evidence isn’t as reliable as objective data, isn’t it?

    You have been proved wrong so many times, and still you come back insisting you were right all along. Deranged.

  29. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:39 PM Said:

    Allan ignores the increasing evidence of younger people who although not dying of the disease are left with chronic debilitating conditions and potentially permanent lung damage after experiencing and ‘recovering’ from the disease. People in their 30s and younger who were fully fit and now 13/14 weeks after being ill are still struggling to function although they are not dying of the virus. That doesn’t happen with flu. This is not flu.

  30. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:39 PM Said:

    Colm.

    Is it?

    Please, explain it again?

    Do you mean if Allan@spends two minutes on ATW, I have to wait a certain amount of time before I can comment?

    Or, does it mean, I can be just like you, when several other lefties comment, I can or can’t join in the fun..?

    Just like you do.

    You have already apparently “ put me on the spot” and asked what I believe Allan@ says it true, I replied possibly much to your utter dismay, emphatically “ all of it”

    What did you want me to say, or, what part of that do you not quite understand?

    Maybe, the cavalry will be along to dig you out of that hole soon?

    Well Colm.

    Explain yourself?

  31. masterson, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:40 PM Said:

    How did you get on with explaining to LI on just how wrong he is one everything,and just why?

    Harri, you are the one obsessed with a stranger on the internet, not me. Every time you demand I go and have an argument with him you sound even more unhinged.

  32. masterson, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:42 PM Said:

    Oh I see Harri’s on the way to another meltdown. I’ll be elsewhere till he has finished acting like a toddler.

  33. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:48 PM Said:

    masterson, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:42 PM Said:
    Oh I see Harri’s on the way to another meltdown. I’ll be elsewhere till he has finished acting like a toddler.

    Blah, blah.,,,boring blah..

    How did you get on anyway?

    Meltdown?

    Swing and misses?

    😉

    Masterson, “have an argument with him?”

    No need, just explain and debate with him, on just how wrong he is, and why?

    See you over at underdog bites upwards.

  34. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:49 PM Said:

    masterson, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:42 PM Said:
    Oh I see Harri’s on the way to another meltdown. I’ll be elsewhere till he has finished acting like a toddler.

    Yes, that’s right.

    Run away.

    😉

  35. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:05 PM Said:

    Colm.

    Even by your own admission, you don’t post any evidence or links to back up your theories whatsoever.

    You only post “opinions”

    Allan@ posts with enough evidence and links to sink a battleship .

    So, who should I trust?

    You’re opinions.

    Or link based evidence?

  36. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:11 PM Said:

    Harri, you are the one obsessed with a stranger on the internet, not me. Every time you demand I go and have an argument with him you sound even more unhinged.

    Masterson.

    I’m not a liberal, I’m not demanding anything.

    I’m simply inviting you.

    You constantly do nothing, or add nothing of any value, but attempt to shoot the messenger.

    I’m simply inviting you to grow some actual balls, and shoot the messenger directly.

    Well?

    Wow!

    Some meltdown this is..

    😉

  37. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:39 PM Said:

    Masterson.

    I cordially invite you, without any demands whatsoever, to join me here..

    https://underdogsbiteupwards.wordpress.com/

    You can as one Doctor of Philosophy to another Doctor of Philosophy explain in all detail just where the mistakes are?

    Or, and as I fully suspect.

    You are full of shit?

    Correct?

  38. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:40 PM Said:

    Harri

    There you go again. 4 comments in a row. You have already admitted that you believe everything Allan posts so why get annoyed when I accuse you of being his cheerleader, that’s exactly what you are. Be proud of it !

  39. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:41 PM Said:

    I spoke too soon. 5 comments in a row 🙂

  40. Dave Alton, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:49 PM Said:

    Allan

    //Nobody around us or near us is dying of Covid-19 beyond any ordinary mortality rate//

    Allan, it’s demonstrably provable, (and I posted links previously, which you haven’t addressed), that the mortality rate in many countries affected by the coronavirus is far higher than it would be for the last 5 months. Which shows your statement above to be completely false. Why do you keep making this claim?

  41. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:54 PM Said:

    Colm.

    I am.

    Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 6:39 PM Said:
    Colm.
    Is it?
    Please, explain it again?
    Do you mean if Allan@spends two minutes on ATW, I have to wait a certain amount of time before I can comment?
    Or, does it mean, I can be just like you, when several other lefties comment, I can or can’t join in the fun..?
    Just like you do.
    You have already apparently “ put me on the spot” and asked what I believe Allan@ says it true, I replied possibly much to your utter dismay, emphatically “ all of it”
    What did you want me to say, or, what part of that do you not quite understand?
    Maybe, the cavalry will be along to dig you out of that hole soon?
    Well Colm.
    Explain yourself?

    I mean..explain.

    Not your usual waffle.

  42. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:55 PM Said:

    There you go again. 4 comments in a row.

    Oh… the horror!

    😉

  43. Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:58 PM Said:

    I have explained Harri, but if you can’t understand plain English, I can’t help that.

  44. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 8:07 PM Said:

    Colm.

    No you haven’t.

    Try again..you fruitcake.

    😉

  45. Harri, on June 27th, 2020 at 8:09 PM Said:

    Colm, on June 27th, 2020 at 7:58 PM Said:
    I have explained Harri,

    Where?

    Colm.

    You have an opinion, even by your own admissions.

    So, should I take your warped opinions as factual evidence?

    Or actual links based evidence?

    Colm, you really are a loon.

    😉

  46. Allan@Aberdeen, on June 27th, 2020 at 11:37 PM Said:

    Allan, it’s demonstrably provable, (and I posted links previously, which you haven’t addressed), that the mortality rate in many countries affected by the coronavirus is far higher than it would be for the last 5 months.

    No Dave – Covid-19 is insufficiently severe to cause increased mortality rates in the wider public which is why it affects the elderly (80-years plus) and those with underlying conditions as statistics and practitioners from Italy make absolutely clear:

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/18/over-99-of-coronavirus-patients-in-italy-who-died-had-other-illnesses/

    More than 99% of coronavirus patients who died in Italy suffered from other, pre-existing health issues, according to a study by the country’s health officials.

    The new research from the National Institutes of Health released Tuesday evaluated 355 of the country’s fatalities and found that only three patients had no prior medical conditions.

    Nearly half the COVID-19 victims suffered from at least one of the following conditions: high blood pressure, diabetes or heart disease.

    More than 75% reported high blood pressure, while 35% had diabetes and 33% had heart disease, according to the study.

    The average age of the victims was 79.5, and the number of deaths in the country surpassed 2,500 this week.

    However the LOCKDOWN has severely detrimental effects on the wider public, especially when all functions of the NHS are ‘locked-down’ including cancer checks, coronary units etc

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/06/26/covid-the-strange-the-inexplicable-and-the-weird/

    It is fascinating that some countries showed a sharp rise in mortality, and some showed nothing. For example, Austria, Denmark, Finland and Germany – nothing. France, Belgium, Spain, the Netherlands, England – major spikes. Thirteen countries spiked, twelve did not.

    Then, and here we get to the really weird part, is the data that was tucked away in a sub-section. A massive rise in mortality that was seen in only one country out of the twenty-five, and nowhere else. And a spike in the age group 15 to 44… one of age groups least vulnerable to COVID -19… and in England alone. Not in Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales. It lasted five weeks and then disappeared.

    Frustratingly, the figures on causes of death are not available – some types of death can take a long time to be recorded e.g. deaths from accidents, or suicides. So, were all the excess deaths from COVID, it seems unlikely as the total number of recorded deaths in this age group has been less than five hundred since the start of the epidemic and that is not going to create such a spike.

    Might lockdown have, in some way, have caused it? Might the loneliness of it have caused a rise in suicides? Or a surge in drug overdoses? Or other reckless behaviour?

  47. Petr Tarasov, on June 27th, 2020 at 11:48 PM Said:

    Compared to the baseline average of deaths from 2009-19, the flu seasons of 2017, 2018 and 2019 were all unusually lethal. But the covid-19 pandemic, which arrived much later in the year, has already reached a higher peak—and would have been far more damaging without social-distancing measures. EuroMOMO’s figures suggest that there were about 170,000 excess deaths between March 16th and May 31st.

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

  48. Dave Alton, on June 27th, 2020 at 11:56 PM Said:

    No Dave – Covid-19 is insufficiently severe to cause increased mortality rates in the wider public which is why it affects the elderly (80-years plus) and those with underlying conditions

    You appear to be ignoring the evidence again Allan.
    Coronavirus has caused an increase in the expected number of deaths in the population.
    That’s demonstrably provable Allan. Where do these people are elderly or have health issues is beside the point. The point being that there are excess deaths.

    https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

  49. Allan@Aberdeen, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:08 AM Said:

    Petr – any excess in deaths is because of the lockdown, and not because of the mild seasonal virus termed Covid-19. Moreover, those who have died are those who were already vulnerable to such a pathogen, these being the very old (over -80) and the chronically ill (obese, diabetic) through self-inflicted idiocy. Moreover, specifically on death certs, Covid-19 is the new superstar:

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/05/31/covid-deaths-how-accurate-are-the-statistics/

    As a doctor working in the midst of the COVID chaos, I’ve seen people die and be listed as a victim of coronavirus without ever being tested for it. But unless we have accurate data, we won’t know which has killed more: the disease or the lockdown

    I suppose most people would be somewhat surprised to know that the cause of death, as written on death certificates, is often little more than an educated guess. Most people die when they are old, often over eighty. A post-mortem is very rarely carried out.

    I do know that other doctors put down COVID on anyone who died from early March onwards. I didn’t. What can be made of the statistics created from data like these? And does it matter?

    It matters greatly for two main reasons. First, if we vastly overestimate deaths from COVID, we will greatly underestimate the harm caused by the lockdown. This issue was looked at in a recent article published in the BMJ, The British Medical Journal. It stated: “Only a third of the excess deaths seen in the community in England and Wales can be explained by COVID-19.

    “…David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said that COVID-19 did not explain the high number of deaths taking place in the community.

    “At a briefing hosted by the Science Media Centre on 12 May he explained that, over the past five weeks, care homes and other community settings had had to deal with a “staggering burden” of 30 000 more deaths than would normally be expected, as patients were moved out of hospitals that were anticipating high demand for beds.

    “Of those 30 000, only 10 000 have had COVID-19 specified on the death certificate. While Spiegelhalter acknowledged that some of these ‘excess deaths’ might be the result of underdiagnosis, ‘the huge number of unexplained extra deaths in homes and care homes is extraordinary. When we look back . . . this rise in non-COVID extra deaths outside the hospital is something I hope will be given really severe attention.’

    He added that many of these deaths would be among people ‘who may well have lived longer if they had managed to get to hospital.’”

    What Speigelhalter is saying here is that people may well be dying ‘because of’ COVID, or rather, because of the lockdown. Because they are not going to hospital to be treated for conditions other than COVID. We know that A&E attendances have fallen by over fifty per-cent since lockdown. Admissions with chest pain have dropped by over fifty per-cent. Did these people just die at home?

    So the spike in deaths is because of the lockdown, and not because of the mild respiratory virus which has little or no effect on anybody healthy

  50. Frank ODwyer, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:18 AM Said:

    Spiegelhalter doesn’t say what Allan says he does.

    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2020/05/22/1590156197000/Spiegelhalter-says-vast-majority-of-Covid-deaths-would-not-have-occurred-in-coming-year-/

  51. Dave Alton, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:21 AM Said:

    So the spike in deaths is because of the lockdown, and not because of the mild respiratory virus which has little or no effect on anybody healthy

    The spike in deaths is because of the lock down! Jesus Allan, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
    And for a virus that has little or no effect on anybody healthy, if put my extremely healthy brother in hospital for 4 days.

  52. Dave Alton, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:22 AM Said:

    Frank ODwyer,

    Spiegelhalter doesn’t say what Allan says he does.

    That’s actually true for most of the evidence Allan presents.

  53. Patrick Van Roy, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:29 AM Said:

    The only comment I’ll respond to

    Was a Holocaust joke really necessary, Patrick? Face masks are a public health measure, pure and simple.

    YES!

    Wearing a mask will not prevent you from catching anything. Masks are designed to keep YOU the person wearing the mask from spreading YOUR GERMS VIRUS & BACTERIA.

    Any GERMS VIRUS & BACTERIA that someone else sneezes into the AIR enters through the EYES. Why you blink 15-20 times per minute. That’s up to 1,200 times per hour 28,800 times in a day. Infection through the lungs is the least way a person passes germs. Touch is the number one way GERMS VIRUS & BACTERIA are transmitted.

    Are you wearing goggles ? Are you wearing Gloves ? NO….. you’re going to get infected with whatever GERMS VIRUS & BACTERIA that are prevalent in whatever region you are in.

    The FACE MASK is a symbol of CONTROL, nothing else.

    but don’t let the science of immunology on how GERMS VIRUS & BACTERIA are spread dictate anything. Just do as your told put on your mask and shut up….. that’s why I compared it to preholocost it is a labeling.

  54. Dave Alton, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:33 AM Said:

    Wearing a mask will not prevent you from catching anything. Masks are designed to keep YOU the person wearing the mask from spreading YOUR GERMS VIRUS & BACTERIA.

    That’s demonstrably wrong Patrick. A surgical mask or cloth mask, will also provide some protection to the person who wears it. Certainly not to the degree of a biological mask, but it will still be better than not wearing anything at all.

  55. Allan@Aberdeen, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:34 AM Said:

    Dave – the virus is estimated to be 80 times more widespread than reported:

    https://www.studyfinds.org/study-initial-u-s-covid-19-infection-rate-may-be-80-times-greater-than-believed/

    UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. — It’s already widely speculated by medical professionals and pundits alike that the initial U.S. coronavirus infection rate was grossly undercounted. Now, a new study concludes that the country’s infection rate early on may have been over 80 times greater than originally reported. Moreover, infections across the U.S. likely doubled almost twice as fast as initially estimated.

    How did this happen? In all likelihood there isn’t one main culprit, researchers believe. Instead, a combination of a lack of tests, asymptomatic carriers, and people not recognizing their own symptoms may be to blame.

    This means that it is 80-times less fatal than reported, even with inflated numbers of attributed deaths.

    quadranomical
    3d
    The greater the number of cases, the lower the mortality rate, which is beginning to look minuscule. When you subtract the nursing home deaths, comorbidity, the fatality numbers were lower than the average flu season.

    Be ready for the ‘second wave’

  56. Frank ODwyer, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:35 AM Said:

    “Masks are designed to keep YOU the person wearing the mask from spreading YOUR GERMS VIRUS & BACTERIA.”

    Sounds handy in a pandemic, then.

  57. Dave Alton, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:41 AM Said:

    Allan

    As I pointed out many times mate, you’re evading the point I’m making.
    Which is this you’ve claimed that there are no increased deaths due to coronavirus when they’re quite clearly are. Although it does seem you now agree that there are over you’re blaming the lockdown. I hope you got those goalposts on wheels mate because you don’t have move them quite a lot. I remember your earliest posts on coronavirus strongly suggested that the virus didn’t actually exist.

    I agree, the virus is probably a lot more widespread than we know. I don’t want to blow my own trumpet here, but yet again, what I said at the beginning has been proven correct. I argued with many people and ATW, when I pointed out that the coronavirus is probably only two to three percent worse than normal flu. but here’s the thing Allan, it is worse than normal flu and it has killed more people than normal flu.

  58. Patrick Van Roy, on June 28th, 2020 at 12:54 AM Said:

    So Dave you disagree with the science.

    The FACTS about how GERMS VIRUS & BACTERIA are spread are irrelevant….. ok

    you also believe man effects the Climate so your at least consistently wrong. It’s a consensus…. masks good.

    I can’t express in words how funny that is. It amazes me that mankind has survived this long with the level of ignorance among the masses.

    Science is not a consensus.

  59. Allan@Aberdeen, on June 28th, 2020 at 1:11 AM Said:

    but here’s the thing Allan, it is worse than normal flu and it has killed more people than normal flu.

    Dave – I disagree. Every year, there are ‘excess’ deaths caused by the seasonal respiratory virus, and this year those ‘excess’ deaths are caused by the seasonal respiratory virus termed Covid-19. There are no excess deaths above the normal ‘excess’ deaths except for those specifically caused by the lockdown, and these are going to get worse as the effects of missed cancers and heart ailments come through. Moreover, how are the figures being skewed? Here’s an interesting look at the numbers of deaths:

    https://hectordrummond.com/2020/06/26/this-is-what-we-screwed-the-world-for/

    So I have taken the ONS’s annual death figures for England and Wales and graphed them all the way back to the turn of the twentieth century. Then I thought: what if we presumed that the death toll for 2020 is the five-year average plus the Covid-19 numbers? This is likely to be a high estimate, as probably many of the people who died from Covid-19 would have died this year anyway, so the real annual total is not likely to be that high. But I thought, let’s see what that number would look like anyway.

    So: no gigantic, bowel-emptying spike in 2020. No jaw-dropping upwards vertical spike to match those jaw-dropping downward vertical spikes we saw with the economic data. Nothing much at all, really. Ask someone in the future who was unacquainted with the era to point to where the once-in-a-century medical disaster was, and they would have no chance of picking it out.

    For God’s sake, it’s not even as many as 1993, or 1989, 1986, 1985, 1983, 1982, and numerous other years.

  60. Dave Alton, on June 28th, 2020 at 1:17 AM Said:

    So Dave you disagree with the science.

    Where does ‘the science’, say wearing a face mask has no effect on the transmission of the coronavirus? And I’m not talking about an opinion piece or blog Patrick, I’m talking about peer-reviewed, scientific experimentation.

    you also believe man effects the Climate so your at least consistently wrong.

    That’s not my belief Patrick, that’s my acceptance of ‘the science.’
    And that’s peer reviewed, demonstrable and repeatable experimentation that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that mankind is having an effect on the world’s climate.
    To be honest mate, you don’t believe our atmosphere has any effect on our climate, which is monumentally stupid to say the least. So you criticising mankind as being ignorant is quite laughable really.

    Science is not a consensus.

    And despite the repeatedly stating this, I’ve never once claimed it is.

  61. Peter, on June 28th, 2020 at 1:26 AM Said:

    Well done Dave, all comments.

    Patrick and Allan are both Creationists, so it’s a waste of time arguing anything scientific with them. They are fundamentally anti-science as part of their culture war.

  62. Patrick Van Roy, on June 28th, 2020 at 3:23 AM Said:

    Where does ‘the science’, say wearing a face mask has no effect on the transmission of the coronavirus? And I’m not talking about an opinion piece or blog Patrick, I’m talking about peer-reviewed, scientific experimentation.

    Every peer reviewed paper on epidemics that exists states that the primary method of disease transmission is touch. Please present one just one where an epidemic was transmitted through the Lungs. Let me know when you find it, because I’ve checked.

    That’s not my belief Patrick, that’s my acceptance of ‘the science.’

    That’s an admission that you’re not a person of median intellect let alone high intellect. You honestly believe that “Climate Science” is science. I would feel bad for you but I just can’t. It’s to funny.

    Science is precise mathematical equations that give you the same answer every time you run them. That’s how we split the atom, that’s how we’ve put robots and people on the moon and mars (no people yet there). Science is not the consensus of belief that man and animals are killing the planet.

    Your supposed to work with computers in some manner if I recall properly. So I’ll ASSUME you’ll understand this.

    My god I can’t believe this needs to be explained.

    If, then, or else… the basic first law cause and effect. It creates a chain that can be followed link by link. For every question there is a set of variables.

    What are the variables in controlling the climate. Well how do the variables interact? Can you or any “Climate Scientist” list those variables in precise numbers?

    It’s 9pm est at this second what is the exact amount of each gas and particle in the atmosphere at this moment argon, helium, krypton, hydrogyn, neon, carbon dioxide are the permanent exotics Nitrogen and Oxygen are the permanent bulk gases. Find me a list with EXACT amounts. Not parts per million est or percent by volume but exact measurable amounts. In Litre’s.

    Then give me the exact amount of water vapour and dust particles. liter’s and metric tons.

    Do you have those numbers? No

    Does anyone have those numbers ? No

    Does man have the tools available to him to get these exact numbers? No

    But you believe that if we change the amount of one just one of the minor gasses we can TILT the whole system.

    Water and co2 only exist in the troposphere the first 8-18 km from the surface the atmosphere is 40-50km thick. By removing co2 from just the first 8-18 km what will the effect be on the other 40-50km ?

    This year a giant hole opened in the Ozone Layer it covered the entire continent of Antarctica. The climate community went nuts….. the dire predictions started immediately.

    3 weeks after the hole appeared it disappeared. Poof like it was never there. The “Climate Scientists” had no explanation. Not for why it appeared and why it suddenly disappeared neither…..

    Now not being able to answer any of those basic questions that doesn’t bother you? Not being able to answer why a hole suddenly appeared and disappeared that doesn’t bother you?

    These people who can’t answer these questions though have reached the consensus that mans existence adding to the co2 is throwing this perfectly balanced formulae off balance even though they can’t tell you what that balanced formulae is.

    Where does the Earth get it’s heat? The Sun.

    At 9pm est what is the exact level of Solar radiation hitting the atmosphere?

    Is the Solar Radiation a constant? No

    What causes the Suns radiation to fluctuate?

    Is the earths orbit around the Sun a fluctuating orbit or non fluctuating?

    What effect does the moon orbiting the Earth have on it’s rotation around the Sun?

    What effect does the moon orbiting the Earth have on the amount water vapor in the atmosphere?

    Now when you get all those numbers for 6/27/20 9pm EST put them in a model that gives you the exact temperature in London, NYC, Rio, Honolulu, Anchorage, McMyrtle Station, Manilla, Moscow, Tokyo, and Sydney at 9pm EST. That matches the actual temperatures in the center of each of those locations at that time.

    THEN you have a place to start.

    Until you can get a model that can crunch those variables and give you those temperatures ACCURATELY you can’t even begin to calculate what effect changing one variable in that equation will have on the whole.

    That is science, not a list of what ifs.

    But your going to call what a group of wackjobs that place one of the main problems of man killing this balanced formulae that they can’t list is domestic cow flatulence SCIENCE ?

    Wear your mask Dave…… whatever you got might be contagious. At least that’s the consensus…

  63. Patrick Van Roy, on June 28th, 2020 at 3:28 AM Said:

    Peter you have no Idea what I am.

    God does not play dice with the Universe. God is a mathematician crunching numbers we don’t even know how to read……

  64. Petr Tarasov, on June 28th, 2020 at 11:35 AM Said:

    Allan@Aberdeen, on June 28th, 2020 at 1:11 AM Said:

    Dave – I disagree. Every year, there are ‘excess’ deaths caused by the seasonal respiratory virus

    Excess deaths refers to the number of deaths above and beyond what we would expect to see under normal conditions. Therefore deaths from seasonal flu, which occur every winter, are by definition not excess. They are in fact the norm because they occur each year. Allan lad, this is ABC stuff. You need to grasp the basics if you aspire to be taken seriously, as you seem to.

  65. Patrick Van Roy, on June 28th, 2020 at 11:19 PM Said:

    no response Dave….. Peter ?

  66. Petr Tarasov, on June 29th, 2020 at 9:31 AM Said:

    No Response… Allan?


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