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A Cultural War

By Patrick Van Roy On July 7th, 2020

I have been doing my best for 20yrs now trying to provide an alternative view of events in the U.S. that you just don’t get from the MSM. The information that you do get is a one sided view delivered from an American Liberal perspective. That alone is a problem add to that the fact that Conservative and Liberal mean different things on each side of the Pond.

I am a voice of one, there is no one here on this site, or any site on that side of the Pond that you will get the American Conservative view. What you get is the Democrat Party view of America. A party that no longer supports either America or American Values.

I have been called a Liar and Delusional and those are the nice things.

Right now America is involved in a Civil War. The shooting has only begun on one side though. The Democrat Party is Rioting, Burning Cities and tearing down statues. They have Labeled ALL of the Founders of the Country Tyrant White Supremacists Slave owners and have continued their campaign of erasing American History.

This weekend the NYTs (lol) put out a 3 page article on changing our economy to Marxism and paying Reparations to black people for “our sins”. The American left has fully dropped any pretense of Support for their country and the opportunity that this Nation has provided for them.

The Flag bearers and number one money raiser of the Democrat Party have become BLM

#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

BLM has donated $119 Million to Joe Biden for President and on 4th of July weekend he put out a commercial attacking our fore Fathers. (it’s in the clip below)

I am putting this video clip up because I am NOT the only person saying these things, I’m just the only person that YOU are hearing it from, but these views are shared by Millions of Americans. The clip is 14 minutes long. It is well worth your time to view it.

463 Responses to “A Cultural War”

  1. Actually Colm it was said above that kneeling was more respectful.

  2. colm ,

    Phantom – Nobody here said that.

    half-truths and lies, its from the playbook of so many like petem
    its a signal , a warning sign , a danger sign when someone starts losing their shit
    It never ends well .. It just gets worse.
    Mahons you should take him out for a beer! and have a lil chat mate

  3. You want to make the comparison of rightworld violence vs left world violence.

    We have not seen rightworld violence in the US since the Civil War.

    The left as part of their party playbook have always used riots and violence. I can point to 100s of Democrat endorsed and as is the case NOW with both BLM and Antifa democrat Organized & financed Violence.

    The right for the past 150yrs have not. We implicitly hold the threat of violence as an arrow in our quiver but it is never used.

    Now you’re going to point to McVeigh and other rightwing loons but they are outliers not supported by the Right as a whole. Just as Susan Lisa Rosenberg a person that planted bombs and killed cops is also an outlier, and actions were not endorsed by the whole.

    What is happening now is BLM/Antifa is being funded by the democrat machine to riot to advance the Democrat Party Political Agenda. For an equivalent on the right you would have to have the NRA leading riots. And that has never and will never happen.

    What the right will do is VOTE and try and change the system by the rules.

    But understand the one thing that every American knows and understands, the RIGHT do own all the LEGAL guns. That fact is our wall.

    That fact is the line that no one will breach. They can dance around playing with the second amendment but they will never remove it, they will never attempt a confiscation.

    Now when I say this Seamus and others will say I am making a threat, but I’m not. I am stating self defense.

    For the Right to act with violence it will only be in self defense. It will be organized and done as a reaction not an action. The left will cross a line that starts it we won’t, but we will finish it.

    That would be the worst day in American history.

    The Democrat Party has engaged in a campaign of violence and intimidation as their election strategy. I believe it will fail. The Polls all say different so we shall see won’t we.

    But the RNC is not funding and organizing any violence, the DNC is.

  4. The rioting and vandalism is not by a few. And the goals of the BLM and affiliated entities extend well beyond police reform.

  5. Paul -yes. When we are talking about violence related to the rioting that is where I think the focus of the discussion should be.

  6. Kaepernick was only being respectful,

    Sometimes it’s okay to not be “respectful.” MLK was not “respectful”, despite the revisionism. Nor was X.

  7. McVeigh was a right wing terrorist.

    Se we have seen right wing terrorism. More than that also.

    And the armed protesters in Michigan and other places are clearly right wing oriented terrorists, who will shoot innocent people if they don’t get their way.

  8. And of course Patrick can be counted on to introduce absurd claims to the discussion.

  9. King actually was respectful.

    Militant, confrontational, but respectful.

    And hugely disciplined, and nonviolent, which made him 100 times more effective.

  10. I don’t think he is intentionally anti-Semitic. But a lot of the people he listens to, a lot of the people he parrots etc… are anti-Semitic.

    Name them please……

    Considering that if you are going to accuse me of parroting anti-semites the two number one shows that I listen to almost everyday are Limbaugh and Levin….. one happens to be Jew, and not a self hating one.

    So please name my anti-semitic sources.

  11. an absurd claim Mahons is that I’m an anti-semite.

  12. I see no anti semitism in him, intentional or not.

    The accusations are entirely bogus.

  13. “So please name my anti-semitic sources.”

    Are you saying you didn’t put a thread up here on ATW, with a tweet from a guy saying:

    that a Jewish man who worked for Bernie Sanders (another Jewish man), paid money to fund riots, money that he got from George Soros (another Jewish man), in order to establish a New World Order (an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory about a single global government run by Jews).

    Are you saying you don’t parrot the Cultural Marxist anti-Semitic conspiracy theory?

  14. No one is challenging CK’s right to be disrespectful on his own dime. King became a national icon by insisting that the nation live up to its ideals and recognizing the strategy of advocating accordingly. Malcolm X was a two bit pimp who many people confuse with Denzel Washington.

  15. And the armed protesters in Michigan and other places are clearly right wing oriented terrorists, who will shoot innocent people if they don’t get their way.

    Who did they shoot?

    What businesses did they Burn?

    What businesses did they loot?

  16. Seamus the FACT that a man who worked for bernie sanders was funneling money to rioters is True.

    The only person to bring in the JEW angle is you and Allan…. (good company)

  17. Are you saying the tweet didn’t also include references to George Soros and the NWO?

  18. Patrick is a bull (shitter) in a China Shop, evoking the most ludicrous claims of several right wing media folks as regards politics. He can be oafish, unnecessarily antagonistic, and unwilling to acknowledge plain factual error. But he is not an antisemite by any stretch of the imagination.

  19. “But he is not an antisemite by any stretch of the imagination.”

    But a lot of his fellow travelers are.

  20. You are becoming a good little democrat drone Seamus.

    When you have no facts to stand on call the person a racist… goodboy

  21. Thank you Mahons.

    and I mean that.

  22. As far as my memory serves he is the only right winger on this site to challenge Allan’s antisemitism. The others don’t comment (disgracefuuly) or enable Aberdeen’s Quisling.

  23. If you don’t want to be called anti-Semitic then don’t post anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

  24. Seamus,

    //But a lot of his fellow travelers are.//

    Seamus, what point are you actually trying to make here?

    Patrick can agree with some of the political views of other people, but not their anti-semitism.

  25. Mahons

    In all accuracy two separate things were said about the ‘respectability’ of Kapaernick’s gesture. One, made by myself and some others was that we thought going down on one knee looked to us visually like a respectful gesture – and two the point made by Seamus was that someone else had advised Mr Kapaernick that sitting down was more disrespectful than the kneeling gesture so it was a matter of how disrespectful he wanted to be. Nobody here said that he took the knee with the intention of being respectful.

  26. That if he posts those anti-Semitic conspiracy theories on ATW then he is open to criticism on them, even if they come from other people.

  27. Gentlemen who is the first to get a post up on the supreme courts decision

    Supreme Court rules Trump must turn over tax records to New York prosecutors

    On Thursday, the Supreme Court upheld a subpoena issued by New York prosecutors to access President Trump’s tax records. In doing so, the decision rejects Trump’s assertion that sitting presidents should be exempt from criminal investigations while in office. Both of Trump’s SCOTUS appointees, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch, ruled against him.

    He’s having a meltdown on twitter ( quelle suprise !)
    mistakenly saying no other president has had this happen to him
    He forgot about Nixon

    Full blown berserk meltdown going on .. rage machine in overdrive .. insane !

  28. Colm- it was argued above that it was more respectful than standing. Incidently, he did all this after no longer being a starting player. When he was a starter he didn’t do this, and as far as I recall didn’t mention the subject.

  29. Patrick has named some individuals who he believes are funding insurrectionst activities who happen to also be Jewish. That is different from specifically naming people and stating they are involved in nefarious activities BECAUSE they are Jewish which is what Allan does.

    BTW – Patrick. There is no such thing as a self-hating Jew.

  30. I don’t believe he posted antisemitic conspiracy theories with the intent to be antisenitic. Certainly one can point out the issues with utilizing those references.

  31. Colm- it was argued above that it was more respectful than standing.

    No it wasn’t.

  32. Actually Colm it was said above that kneeling was more respectful

    Actually it wasn’t. An explanation was given as to how kneeling for the NA could be seen to be more respectful than standing for it.

    When we are talking about violence related to the rioting that is where I think the focus of the discussion should be.

    Do you? Well, I don’t. I think that if you’re going to talk about violence then all violence needs to be included in the discussion. Particularly when the violence is being blamed on one group when in fact the majority of violence originates from another group.

  33. “Patrick has named some individuals who he believes are funding insurrectionst activities who happen to also be Jewish.”

    And also that they are doing it in support of the New World Order. Now unless he means the WCW wrestling stable then he means the anti-Semitic conspiracy theory of a one world global Jewish government.

  34. “I don’t believe he posted antisemitic conspiracy theories with the intent to be antisenitic. Certainly one can point out the issues with utilizing those references.”

    I agree. As I said I’m not saying Patrick is anti-Semitic. But a lot of his fellow travellers are.

  35. Seamus,

    That if he posts those anti-Semitic conspiracy theories on ATW then he is open to criticism on them, even if they come from other people.

    Did Patrick actually post anti-semitic conspiracy theories, or did he post conspiracy theories from people who are anti-semitic?

  36. But we are talking about violence as it relates to the protests. If you want to expand the discussion beyond the discussion no one can stop you.
    No explanation was given. An excuse that kneeling could be seen as more respectful. By whom? Are you under the impression CK wanted to be more respectful. It is directly contrary to his words.

  37. Good point Dave.

  38. “Did Patrick actually post anti-semitic conspiracy theories, or did he post conspiracy theories from people who are anti-semitic?”

    He posted a tweet as a post here from another person where that person used an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.

  39. Com – if that is the case we’d agree that CK wasn’t trying to assume the most respectful option. Can we eliminate that from the discussion and agree his action was intended to be disrepectful? Can we take him at his own word?

  40. But we are talking about violence as it relates to the protests

    I know. As I’ve repeatedly said above, you are talking about selective violence abd ignoring other more major forms of violence.

    If you want to expand the discussion beyond the discussion no one can stop you.

    Which is what I’ve been doing.

    No explanation was given. An excuse that kneeling could be seen as more respectful

    It was, above regarding being told that bowing a knee is submissive.

  41. He completely despises the country itself, it’s government, it’s history.

    As backed up by his own words and actions.

    But the too cute by half people pretend not to know that, and go into a rage when it’s brought up.

    This is very much like Allan pretending that there was no intentional holocaust.

    Multiple people here are at war with the facts.

    I have much less of a problem with Kappy than I do with those who are fakes phonies and frauds around the issue. He is far more honest than any of them are, even if his position is wrong.

  42. I posted a tweet…. and not a tweet I wrote.

    If Seamus wants to try and sell that I’m an anti-semite or that I believe in any Jews run the world conspiracy…… lol go right ahead.

    How that washes with me supposedly supporting Terrorists because I don’t condemn the actions the jews took at the founding of Israel I would love to hear him reconcile.

    The claim of me being an anti-semite makes you look foolish Seamus.

    I’ve had to defend the fact that I am not a jew because of my full support for Israel, so I think the accusation is funny or a sign that Seamus has had a complete mental break.

  43. Yes Mahons. Of course he intended it to be disrespectful.Nobody is suggesting otherwise. My only argument is that to me it fails in its intention. Going down on one knee looks respectful even deferential, though I know perfectly well that’s not the message he was aiming to show. I suppose its a matter of how individuals view it.

  44. https://www.pinterest.ch/pin/292522938269535523/

    Kaepernick and his parents

  45. “The claim of me being an anti-semite makes you look foolish Seamus.”

    I’m not saying that you are an anti-Semite. But a lot of your fellow far-right are.

  46. Colm – so it only depends on how individuals view it and isn’t objectively disrepectful? How coy.

  47. Patrick

    Seamus does have a point though. If a tweet mentioning Jewish individuals is intended to promote a specific anti-semitic conspiracy you shouldn’t give it publicity by sharing it elsewhere. If you write a post yourself simply mentioning accurately the same names of financial contributors to campaigns you condemn that’s different.

  48. But the too cute by half people pretend not to know that, and go into a rage when it’s brought up.

    Judging by the hubris and venom in that comment above the only person going into a rage about this is you.

    This is very much like Allan pretending that there was no intentional holocaust.

    Jesus fucking Christ, talk about exaggeration.

  49. Seamus and a lot of the people you have repeated are IRA terrorists.

    Does that make you one? They are YOUR fellow travelers…….

  50. I only say that you guys and Allan are at war with the truth on things that you support.

    It’s all a big funny game to you guys.

  51. He completely despises the country itself, it’s government, it’s history.

    Trump tweets exactly the same thing, word for word .. someone has lost the plot

  52. “Seamus and a lot of the people you have repeated are IRA terrorists.”

    You maybe want to rethink that one.

  53. A stopped clock is right twice a day.

    You don’t think that your Kappy despises the US and it’s history?

    You entirely sure about that?

  54. Anyway CK now has a deal with Nike, Disney and ESPN. So whatever he thinks of the red white and blue he at least has the solace of green.

  55. Mahons

    What a daft thing to say. Of course it was objectively disrespectful. But it also serves to have a visual impact which individuals will see differently and speaking for myself I just think going down on one knee doesn’t look effective as a disrespectful image. Heck, the same gesture has now been adopted at protests around the world to be a mark of respect for Black lives.

    Everything in the world of political persuasion depends on how individuals view it. that is not coy, its just a fact of life. One person’s ‘offensive gesture’ is another person’s ‘brave stance’ and another person’s ‘not fussed either way’

  56. Phantom, let me be crystal clear on this, IMO American Football is a shitty game and I don’t know and care even less what some ‘Superbowl’ or whatever the fuck it’s called player did or didn’t do. All I’m saying is what I interpret the gesture to be and that I’d have no problem with a GAA player doing it.

    Kaepernick was disrespectful to the flag or the anthem or something? Alright, shoot him or electrocute him or whatever for all I care.

    Satisfied?

    As one of the most dishonest commentators on this entire site you’d need to be careful about who you accuse of being untruthful.

  57. Trump accused all the witness in the impeachment of hating their country
    its a playbook.
    Vinderman resigned yesterday after all the bullying .. someone has lost the plot !

  58. When Phantom is reduced to making silly digs like “your kappy” -that’s when it shows he has lost the argument and is resorting to barrel scraping.

  59. Well now we’re getting somewhere, after pulling all the wisdom teeth without anasthesia.

    So if some rotten no good bum does something that is objectively disrespectful to the audience as part of a TV broadcast, which will be a major focus of that broadcast ( it absolutely was ), then why should fans be expected to watch it anyway?

  60. “So if some rotten no good bum does something that is objectively disrespectful to the audience as part of a TV broadcast, which will be a major focus of that broadcast ( it absolutely was ), then why should fans be expected to watch it anyway?”

    No one here thinks fans should be expected to watch it. You are the one complaining about people boycotting content they don’t want to buy because of the political actions and opinions of those featured.

  61. some rotten no good bum

    the mask slips

  62. Why should fans be expected to watch it anyway?

    Who here ever suggested anything to the contrary?

  63. Phantom

    Just so you know – failing to 100% agree with you and Patrick and Mahon’s views on Kapaernick, his gesture, and the responses to it doesn’t make us worshipful adoring fans of the man. That sort of narrow juvenile attitude is bad enough among the stupid naive twitter war mobs – we can have a more adult and respectful recognition of differing viewpoints here.

  64. some rotten no good bum

    But that’s Phantom’s narrow view in a nutshell. You either have to view Kapaernick exactly as that or else you must see him as a great American hero and worship the ground he walks (kneels) on. There is no middle ground.

  65. Seamus

    I don’t think that I’ve ever criticized those who choose not to watch / buy something because of a disagreement.

    I’ve given strong criticism of those who try to get others fired, of those who try to scare families of those they have a beef with by demonstrating in front of a family home, of those who try to deny any platform to others.

    And I don’t think that you can say any of those things.

  66. “I’ve given strong criticism of those who try to get others fired, of those who try to scare families of those they have a beef with by demonstrating in front of a family home, of those who try to deny any platform to others.”

    Except the decision to not watch the NFL because of the kneeling is a message to the NFL that if they allow kneeling etc… then you will not watch. As such they should take action against the kneelers to keep your business. So you are effectively, with your boycott, trying to get people fired.

  67. And if I was to communicate with a company, and make it clear that as long as Racist A, or Bigot B, were their spokespeople that I would not buy their content or their product and they subsequently fired Racist A and Bigot B would that be me getting them fired?

  68. Utter imbecility.

  69. So Phantom is allowed to cancel what he wants and the rest of us aren’t. Or you are allowed to cancel stuff that Phantom disagrees with, but not allowed to cancel the stuff he agrees with.

  70. No, Allan

    As I’ve said a thousand times, you should watch what you wish to watch and not watch what you don’t feel like watching.

    This is an easy concept for most.

  71. “As I’ve said a thousand times, you should watch what you wish to watch and not watch what you don’t feel like watching.”

    So why are you gurning about “cancel culture”?

  72. Phantom has objected to to the concept of boycotts before here on ATW. I guess refusing to watch a football match for political reasons isn’t a boycott or Phantom is a hypocrite.

  73. He also seems a bit confused. He thinks Séamus is Allan and yesterday he was under the illusion that I was Pat.

  74. It would seem that patriotism to Mom’s apple pie has canceled out the logical faculties of some here.

  75. He is being cute, and deserves a slap around the head 🙂

  76. Alex Jones has a new member , we’re commie filth / imbeciles , and Biden is writing huge cheques to BLM to fund the killing of cops – way to go phantom ; just missing the #MAGA

  77. Phantom is upset because he spent hours baking a perfect patriotic 4th of July all American apple pie…. and then Colin Kapaernick came along and stuck his knee into it 🙂

  78. good line for the trump tax return thread

    SCOTUS has the POTUS by the SCROTUM 😉

  79. Colm

    I am a little disappointed in you. I expect better.

    I have never once said that people should not do what they want to do.

    I have also not said that there should not ever be boycotts.

    I have strongly condemned those who wish to compel others to boycott, another thing entirely, or those who use pressure to deny a livelihood to those who disagree with them on a matter.

    These discussions have taken place in some detail over many years here. How can there be any confusion at this point?

    I don’t stop talking to or even being friends with those with whom I have the strongest political disputes, I don’t try to hurt them in any way. But in the wider world, people are ghosting others for political reasons all the time, and they are trying to hurt those that they disagree with.

    In the US, we’ve come a long way from the time when Reagan and O’Neill were genuine friends, despite being opponents on political matters.

  80. Phantom

    And my original specific and detailed point which I stand by and you refute is that refusing to watch televised football purely because you disagree with a football player not standing during the anthem as oppose to a game related reason is albeit in a very small way contributing to the cancel culture. You are perfectly entitled to do it, but it is the same principle as the growing intolerance that leads people to stop buying books records, etc. from artists for political reasons unrelated to the work they produce.

  81. PS – No need to be disappointing with me because I disagree with you on a topic. I am not disappointed with any disagreements with anyone here – its what the discussion blog is all about.

  82. But it was related

    The kneeling was part of the broadcast, It received as much or more media attention as anything that happened in the game itself

  83. You’re only disappointed in Colm? What, did you expect nothing more nor less from the rest of us?

  84. needs some cheering up this thread
    today BLM got painted right in front of Trump Tower
    its looks great doesn’t it ?

  85. I think that every business owner in NYC will see that hostile, targeted government approved act and wonder why they need the aggravation of being here.

  86. It is the same principle as the growing intolerance that leads people to stop buying books records, etc. from artists for political reasons unrelated to the work they produce.

    Indeed. I can’t remember all this fuss when the Dixie Chicks got ‘cancel cultured’ for their stance against the Iraq War and comments about GWB

    You’re only disappointed in Colm?

    Yep. I’m disappointed that he’s not disappointed in me too.

  87. The Phantom, on July 26th, 2008 at 4:06 PM Said:
    I don’t think that Rodney Carrington is going into the music or comedy hall of fame any time soon.

    While I disagree with the Dixie Chicks on a number of things, I think that they are incredibly great musicians. They’re perhaps the best of the big country groups as respects musicianship and respect for tradition.

    Lets see more of the Chicks, not less. Leave censorship with the left, which is its natural home.

    http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=5289#comments

  88. fuss[ fuhs ]
    noun
    an excessive display of anxious attention or activity; needless or useless bustle

    comment[ kom-ent ]
    noun
    a remark, observation, or criticism:

  89. I think that every business owner in NYC will see that hostile, targeted government approved act and wonder why they need the aggravation of being here.

    No they won’t they’ll be proud to be in a city like New York

    your nasty bigoted comment means really its you who needs to move out

  90. Colm- CK says it is indented to be disrespectful.
    Paul – you might very well be in the group of Irish people who would view a disrespectful gesture to the Irish NA or flag as ok. But I doubt the majority of Irish people would.

  91. How is it bigoted to disapprove of a taxpayer financed mural that is intended to escalate tensions?

  92. It is a targeted insult to a major employer who invested big in NYC when NYC had problems

    And it is a targeted insult to the guy whose cooperation is needed when the city seeks to recover

    Dumbest most mean spirted move ever. Bad move from any angle.

  93. How is it bigoted to disapprove of a taxpayer financed mural that is intended to escalate tensions?

    That’s an interpretation which is your right to express
    mine is that the BLM is going to reduce tensions , people get to smile
    now you can’t be angry and smile at the same time

    the real hostility is Trumps divisiveness on race-baiting and the murder of George Floyd
    but hey in your mind and phantom the poor racist Trump gets the sympathy
    That’s why its nasty and bigoted to side with him . In view of what has happened to get us to this point in time .
    Its fucking magic the painting, with the mayor present – you just can’t see it !
    Shame

  94. Paul – you might very well be in the group of Irish people who would view a disrespectful gesture to the Irish NA or flag as ok. But I doubt the majority of Irish people would

    I wouldn’t see it as disrespectful Mahons, that’s the difference.

    I don’t know what the majority of Irish people would think but if we take the comments regarding the issue from the Irish people here as a sample it seems they wouldn’t be that fussed either.

  95. Mahons

    I give up. I surrender. You win. Your ability to read what is clearly in front of you is noted,. So I might as well concede.

  96. if you are black tonite in America you are going to feel so proud of your country you are going to love your country esp if you live in New York City, and you’re going to love your Mayor.
    If you’re a white racist in America tonite you are going to hate your country.
    “quod erat demonstrandum”

  97. Like I said last night, I don’t think Irish people would view an Irish sports personality going down on one knee during the national anthem, in protest at the shooting of another Irish person, as disrespectful. And I doubt if they would vow never to watch that sport again because of that.

  98. I think the real culture war here is in the different perception we have, from opposite sides of the Atlantic, as to what is and isn’t important/respectful.
    And I think some of the worst of that difference in perception is seeping through in some of the snarky, nasty little snipey comments coming from certain individuals.
    Different people have different views on different things. Let’s leave it at that, eh?

  99. Was that mural not painted weeks ago?

  100. Well said Seimi. One of the big differences is we don’t indoctrinate schoolkids with pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth every day.

  101. Seimi

    I think you might be thinking of the road mural in Washington which was the original one.

  102. Mahons and Phantom have come across particularly intolerant on this topic, accusing several of us repeatedly of things we haven’t said and even ignoring things we clearly said.

  103. ‘I think you might be thinking of the road mural in Washington which was the original one.’

    Ah yeah, you’re right.

    Yeah, Colm. It seemed to make them both quite angry. Perhaps it’s best if we all moved on to another topic.

  104. Yeah, there seems to be a fair bit of anger as well as accusation and taunting in some of the comments above.

    Not a nice thread.

  105. Colm – isn’t that merely your perspective?

    Kurt – black protesters hate The Mayor.

  106. The Northern Irish contingent, not the Republic of Ireland contingent.

  107. The Northern Irish contingent, not the Republic of Ireland contingent.

    ? Context?

  108. As far as I am aware no one here (except maybe Peter) is Northern Irish.

  109. I stand corrected I thought Paul and Seimi where for NI originally.

  110. Northern Irish is an identity, not a description of where you are born. I was born and lived pretty much my entire life in Belfast. I am Irish. I am not Northern Irish.

  111. We are, and we’re Irish, not Northern Irish.

  112. I see that the taunting I mention above still hasn’t subsided?

    ‘Northern Irish’ is a contrived ‘nationality’. Weak

  113. You can identify how you wish. But there is a difference in outlooks.

  114. And what might that be?

  115. Mahons got a link to where blank people hate the major? Or just your perspective ?

  116. Turns out to be false his approval rating amongst black voters is much higher than whites. I guess the tale of two cities speech wasn’t you cup of tea mahons ?
    What a nasty thread indeed
    New Yorkers showing their worst side

  117. I haven’t read through the thread, but acc. to the last few comments, Irish people wouldn’t feel bad about someone in Ireland mocking the flag or national anthem. (if I understood the argument right)

    I don’t agree. If anyone publically mocked the flag in, say, Dublin or Cork in a gesture of hatred towards the state, it wouldn’t raise only anger but also boots and fists.

    It all depends on the context; people aren’t angry to see our flag abused and burned on Loyalist bonfires in the North, simply because that’s what Loyalists do and in a way it’s satisfying to see how such bigots are annoyed by us so much.
    Maybe Nationalists in the North have become immune to the symbols of Ireland being disrespected more than people in the South have.

    But isn’t this all just too tedious and silly. In the US, beset with huge problems re. Corona, the economy, the growth of China and above all the lunatic in the White House, there seems to be little going on apart from moral grandstanding on pointless issues, destruction of symbols and public monuments and an endless and stupid debate about the constitution and the “founding fathers” etc. All this in the last few months of an election campaign which, if it goes wrong, could turn out to be one of the most fateful in American history.

    It’s hard to see which is worse: those who start this revision campaign or those who oppose it but let it dictate political discourse. Somehow many of them probably need each other.

  118. Irish people wouldn’t feel bad about someone in Ireland mocking the flag or national anthem. (if I understood the argument right)

    You haven’t understood the argument right, Noel. The issue was whether Irish people would consider kneeling for the NA or flag or whatever mocking or insulting to it. I personally wouldn’t and it seems like Kaepernick and his colleague Eric Reid didn’t either:

    After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

    It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

    But there is a difference in outlooks

    What is it with Americans and the ‘it’s my opinion’ clause? When opinions, outlooks etc are contrary to cold fact they may still be your opinions but they are your incorrect opinions.

  119. If anyone publically mocked the flag in, say, Dublin or Cork in a gesture of hatred towards the state, it wouldn’t raise only anger but also boots and fists.

    And the same would be true here, Noel, but that wasn’t the issue. The issue was, if, like Colin Kaepernick in the US, an Irish sports personality were to ‘take the knee’ during the national anthem rather than stand, in protest at an Irish man being shot (and his killer released without charge), would that be seen as a sign of disrespect towards the Irish national anthem – spitting on it and its associated memories, as was alluded to by a couple of the Americans. And furthermore, would that single action – one person kneeling, during the national anthem, at the side of the pitch, before the game started – (and, by a player we have since been told, who wouldn’t have even started the game) be enough to cause spectators and fans to vow never to watch that particular sport – in any form, live or on TV – again.

    The ‘Northern Irish Contingent’, as we have since been labelled, are of the opinion that this would not be seen as disrespectful, nor warrant the decision to stop watching the sport.
    Other than yourself, we have yet to hear from the ‘Republic of Ireland Contingent,’ as you will be known hence, apparently.

    people aren’t angry to see our flag abused and burned on Loyalist bonfires in the North, simply because that’s what Loyalists do and in a way it’s satisfying to see how such bigots are annoyed by us so much.

    Not quite true. I do get annoyed at seeing the flag of Ireland being disrespected – by anyone. It is amusing though, to see Loyalists mistakenly burn the flags of the Ivory Coast and Mexico etc on their bonfires.

    Maybe Nationalists in the North have become immune to the symbols of Ireland being disrespected more than people in the South have.

    After 51 years here, I still get annoyed at it, so no, I wouldn’t agree with you there.

    …which includes the right to speak out in protest.

    Only if that protest is in line with what others believe, apparently.

  120. Interesting perspective in that NY Times article Paul about the discussions that took place, however I don’t think that will at all mollify our American contingent here, who really have taken an “Anthem Taliban” attitude to this whole discussion 🙂

  121. lol colm
    I’m pretty shocked to be honest, I did not expect to read this level of intolerence
    I always thought it was the Right in USA who are permanently offended , as we have in the UK
    But now its not so clear .

    I’ve read comments from lefties in USA here that get terribly offended over Immigration, Islam, Asylum, Protests, Sports Protests, Police Reform, Confed Statues, BLM signs on roads

    scratch a USA guy and you’ll find a Trumper hiding or eager to get out , maybe he’ll win again in Nov, maybe America deserves another 4 years of the guy !
    After all many of his polices are liked by the Left, and though they may despise the man, they certainly agree with a huge amount he’s been saying on my list above from Immigration to BLM signs on the road .

    Good grief ! sobering

  122. You haven’t understood the argument right, Noel. The issue was whether Irish people would consider kneeling for the NA or flag or whatever mocking or insulting to it.

    I feel it’s only a matter of time before somebody does this. Remember, every Americanism must be adopted, however silly it is in the Irish context!

  123. On the issue of flag burning. I was on a Palestine solidarity march years ago in Dublin when someone pulled out an Israeli flag and burned it. A few people cheered but did not approve. My guess is the most Irish people would be fairly averse to flag burning of any kind.

  124. Most people would definitely see flag burning as far more disrespectful and offensive than going down steadily on one knee during the playing of any national anthem.

  125. One of the most bizarre instances of flag burning I ever saw was just around the corner from my house. On St. Patrick’s Day , at around 11PM, some idiots decided to steal a car and burn it on the main road. We walked round when we heard sirens. The car was burning in the middle of the road, surrounded by a group of drunken youths. Facing them was a fire engine. The fire crew were standing, watching the youths who, probably mesmerised by the flashing lights, would occasionally throw stones at the big red flashing vehicle. I asked one of the fire crew if they were going to extinguish the fire, and he responded by saying they would have to wait for police support, as they couldn’t go near the car while the youths were stoning them.
    The police duly arrived, by which time, the fire crew had decided the fire was now so low, that just letting it burn out was the best option, and asked the police could they use their armoured jeep to push it to the side of the road. They agreed, and proceeded to move the youths on.
    One of the youths then pulled a Tricolour from his pocket, dangled it over the fire to set it alight, and jeered at the police, calling them sectarian names. As he burned an Irish Tricolour. On St. Patrick’s Day. In West Belfast.
    The cops just stood there, shaking their heads. I asked one of them if he was going to deal with it.
    “How do you deal with that!?” he asked. “No clue. That young fella just has no clue whatsoever!”

  126. Kurt – BLM in New York has called for Diblasio to resign, he was jeered and denounced at a George Floyd memorial service, and hundreds of his own staffers signed a letter and marched to City Hall against him.

  127. That is the same insanity going on in most major cities over here right now Seimi.

  128. Mahons, hi

    According to an April Quinnipiac University poll, 42 percent of New Yorkers approve of the job de Blasio is doing as mayor, and 44 percent disapprove. But when you break it down by race, the numbers tell a different story: De Blasio’s approval rating is 31-58 percent among white voters, 33-44 percent among Asian voters, 40-40 percent among Hispanic voters, and 66-23 percent among black voters. In other words, de Blasio does poorly among white New York voters. Among voters of color, it’s a different story.

    Yes, he has slipped in the last year but I was going on that poll, I’d say he’s popular now amongst blacks after the road painting. Or do you evidence to the contrary ?
    but

  129. really deserves a thread of it own , its a phenomena that’s growing

    Black Lives Matter: From social media post to global movement

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53273381

    don’t know if you can see that from USA , might be behind a firewall

    Its good news as with all growing movements its has to up its game and anything untoward like lootings, burnings it can’t be seen alongside , due to its increased exposure

    I think all would welcome that yes ?

  130. Kurt – I wrote black protestors hate the Mayor, and pointed out that BLM in New York has called for his resignation. He has been roundly jeered by black protestors.

  131. you did indeed mahons but you didn’t say when

  132. CK equates the US flag with slavery. He successfully pressured his business enabler Nike to remove the American Flag from a sneaker line. He equates police officers with pigs. You see in the US we know all he has said and done.

  133. He made a point of exercising on the field wearing socks with cops as pigs on them.

  134. you’re still struggling, because my point ins not really about de Blasio
    its about the wider movement BLM, its future , its respectability
    you should recognise its global, its growing, it will become an icon of the future in the same way the green movement has become, or indeed greenpeace, can’t you be generous at all ?

  135. “You can identify how you wish. But there is a difference in outlooks.”

    What difference in outlook would that be?

  136. On June 2 2020 the leader of BLM of Greater New York, Mr. H Newsome called for DeBlasio’s resignation. So if you don’t agree with that call Kurt you must be anti-BLM and a Trump supporter.

  137. I think Irish people from NI are more inclined than people in the Republic to give a pass to radical protests.

  138. “I think Irish people from NI are more inclined than people in the Republic to give a pass to radical protests.”

    Based on what?

  139. Kurt you specifically wrote about DeBlasio and how he should be loved. But now that he’s been denounced by BLM (despite pandering to them) you are dropping him like a rock.

  140. Seamus – based on my observations. Feel free to disagree.

  141. “Seamus – based on my observations. Feel free to disagree.”

    Based on your observations of what? Or observations of whom?

  142. Mahons, pay attention , he’s not my focal point
    I can point to polls where he’s popular then he isn’t , now he is, now he’s not
    this gets us nowhere except you making it a personalthing.

    I’m inviting you to a wider sphere, where you may feel uncomfortable
    perhaps you don’t want to go there now, and that’s fine too 🙂

  143. I can appreciate some of BLM’s arguments without having to accept their agenda lock stock and barrel.
    I accept that Czar is Russia need reforms, but I never had to accept the Communists had all the answers.

  144. “I can point to polls where he’s popular then he isn’t , now he is, now he’s not”

    Kurt, your point and Mahon’s point are not mutually exclusive. De Blasio can be both unpopular with Black Lives Matter protestors while at the same time being popular with black people in general.

  145. Kurt – why not get the Angels to intervene? Surely they could sort this out instantly. Though it would be too late for 8 year old Secoria Turner, shot dead by black activists at their roadblock in Atlanta. Has Colin commented on that death?

  146. CK equates the US flag with slavery. He successfully pressured his business enabler Nike to remove the American Flag from a sneaker line. He equates police officers with pigs. You see in the US we know all he has said and done.

    He made a point of exercising on the field wearing socks with cops as pigs on them.

    So now it’s no longer just about him taking the knee during the national anthem? Now it’s about these other things as well?

  147. Since the shooting wasn’t by the police, who cares they say

  148. Who are ‘they?’

  149. The racist BLM cult

  150. I can appreciate some of BLM’s arguments without having to accept their agenda lock stock and barrel.

    same here, same as you would with the greenpeace movement, climate change movement
    and all doing so without losing the plot like here:

    The racist BLM cult

  151. Mahons, on July 10th, 2020 at 1:53 PM Said:
    I think Irish people from NI are more inclined than people in the Republic to give a pass to radical protests.

    Radical means to get to the root of something. Radical protests are positive if they seek to get to the root of a problem or an injustice.

    If some people from the North of Ireland are more inclined to support emancipatory movements than others, I think this might be due to some very recent history.

  152. In certain American eyes, radical protest is a bad thing, it seems.

  153. Seimi- the other things are part of the total picture. Maybe you prefer only to see part of it.
    Petr – and radical can also be bad.

  154. Seimi – it depends upon the nature of the protest.

  155. https://www.ktvu.com/news/police-association-asks-palo-alto-to-remove-convicted-cop-killer-from-blm-mural

    BLM is a cop killer friendly movement.

    There have been chants in favor of killing cops at their marches.

    If you want to support it, that’s between you and your conscience.

  156. Seimi- the other things are part of the total picture. Maybe you prefer only to see part of it.

    390+ comments in and ‘the other things are part of the total picture.’ How come they weren’t brought up before? It was all about the ‘political hi-jinks’ of taking a knee up until 1.44PM today. More goalpost shifting?

    Seimi – it depends upon the nature of the protest.

    You mean it all depends on whether you agree with it or not?

  157. Seimi – I’m adding to simple comments not writing a manifesto. I guess I could just repeat the same comment over like some.
    Don’t be stupid. It doesn’t depend on whether I agree with it or not. Protestor have gone to homes of legislators here in NYC to intimidate them, bang on their home doors, throw paint on their homes. That is beyond the pale

  158. In the middle of a pandemic they’ve often flaunted health guidelines. In some places the distinction between protest and criminality has blurred. That shouldn’t be allowed.

  159. The intimidation protests in front of the homes of politicians or other are always wrong and should be illegal.

    I’ve written about it before, including when they appeared in front of Tucker Carlson’s home at night, when his young children were trying to sleep.

  160. But the thing that was getting you and Phantom and, to a lesser extent, PaTroll all riled up for the last 36 hours or more, was that CK took a knee during the NA, and that was disrespectful. None of the other stuff.

    I guess I could just repeat the same comment over like some.

    You did.

    Protestor have gone to homes of legislators here in NYC to intimidate them, bang on their home doors, throw paint on their homes. That is beyond the pale

    It’s also beyond protesting. Those are acts of intimidation, violence and damage to property. Attacks on individual’s or their private property are wrong, and anyone engaged in them should be arrested and charged accordingly.

  161. Bill O’Reilly used to constantly threaten to go to people’s houses. Some of these shock jocks are getting a taste of their own medicine, and I say that as someone who is against protesting at people’s homes in almost every circumstance.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/bill-oreilly/oreilly-caller-defending-media-matters-other-nuts-we-should-go-their-house-i-can-get

  162. I didn’t know that O’Reilly said that, but he’s only one guy, and he’s small beer now anyway.

    I dislike many public figures but would never ever endorse this sort of extremely dangerous intimidation against them and their families.

    When this subject came up before, Patrick actually defended the idea of protesting at people’s homes. Patrick, can you stand up straight and try to defend that position.

  163. To be fair to him, I think what he said was that it was fine to protest, as long as you didn’t set foot on the person’s property, or else – BLAM!

  164. I loathe Trump, but one of the reasons that I oppose the idiotic sign on Fifth Avenue, is that they placed it in front of one of his homes.

    This too, is a clear attempt at intimidation.

    ” We know where you and your family live. Shame if anything happened to them ” is the unhid message behind all such home protests.

  165. and he’s small beer now anyway.

    Yes, he has a podcast that nobody listens to.

  166. He was a big star, I thought that he’d be hard to replace, but they replaced him in a minute with Tucker Carlson without losing a viewer.

    The platform of Fox News is more valuable than any of the individual opinion people on it. The medium is the message as the man said.

    Even Hannity could be replaced by someone and in a few months, none of the audience would remember who Hannity was.

  167. Yes, it’s incredible really. The conventional wisdom was that O’Reilly was unfirable because she was such a ratings draw. As you say, that turned out to be very wide of the mark.

  168. I loathe Trump, but one of the reasons that I oppose the idiotic sign on Fifth Avenue, is that they placed it in front of one of his homes.This too, is a clear attempt at intimidation.

    Karl popper: to keep the tolerant safe we have to be intolerant to the intolerant

    Its loud, its in your face, but you’d only be intimidated by it if you thought black lives didn’t matter. If he was a great leader he’d tweet ” I love it, we need more of that, everywhere to make sure the message gets heard and is NOT forgotten ”

    I think you’re confused about standing up to bullies, they only respect a kind of force, in your face , i hope he is confronted by it and intimidated into shutting his dirty mouth up.

    that’s +ve intimidation , -ve intimidation is going after people personally , which is wrong.

  169. Seimi

    Going back to your story about the sttrange flag burning. Is it the case that these were nationalist youths burning the tricolour ?

  170. kurt

    Why is it that many acivists and those on the left get offended by the use of the phrase “All Lives Matter” ?

  171. Colm
    Yes! It was the most bizarre sight! Like I said, the PSNI officer couldn’t understand it either. There’s a young man, holding a burning Irish Tricolour, shouting, “Yeeeeoooowww! Come on, ye Orange bastards!” On St. Patrick’s Day!

    To quote PaTroll and Bugs – what a maroon! 🙂

  172. Colm

    people who use the phrase All Lives Matter, are saying it as a counter to Black Lives Matter. It’s, perhaps wilfully, misinterpreting Black Lives Matter as Only BLM, or BLM more than others. What it is actually closest to is Black Lives Matter as well.
    It comes as no huge surprise that a certain absent gentleman of this parish used All Lives Matter quite a bit… 🙂

  173. That absent gent seemed as though he was having some kind of breakdown. Genuinely hope he gets the help he needs.

  174. Seimi- I disagree with CK’s acts, and am free to expand upon them in order to educate the unknowing.
    As for the imtimidation of people in their homes there is a significant cross over of people engaged in the peaceful protests and those engaged in the intimidation and violence.

  175. Yes, Petr. Some issues there, I think.

  176. One isn’t permitted to say All Lives Matter without being accused of racism. Cause the BLM crowd is all about their speech and less about others. Or they would get past the semantics.

  177. I disagree with CK’s acts, and am free to expand upon them in order to educate the unknowing.

    Of course you are, as you were yesterday, and the day before etc.

    …there is a significant cross over of people engaged in the peaceful protests and those engaged in the intimidation and violence.

    Correct, which is why I wrote

    It’s also beyond protesting. Those are acts of intimidation, violence and damage to property. Attacks on individual’s or their private property are wrong, and anyone engaged in them should be arrested and charged accordingly.

  178. Mahons

    You and Phantom were also educated by us Euroweenies on the nuances and detail of the CK protest yesterday 🙂

  179. Just bumping this up to annoy Seimi 🙂

  180. Why you little…! 🙂

  181. The other day I heard an interview with Dwight Gooden on WFAN sports radio.

    He’s a black former baseball pitcher. At one time, he was probably the best pitcher in baseball. There was a six story painting of him on a building exterior in Manhattan.

    Has had had many personal problems with drugs and alcohol that he continues to struggle with. We in New York root for him in his continued fight against his demons. I think that he’s a good guy. I once met him outside Yankee Stadium, he was nice to us.

    The interviewer asked him about the BLM protests, since every conversation in the world has to get into that.

    He said that ” all lives matter ” and went into some detail about his thoughts on how most police were good, but that there was a big problem.

    I am sure that someone will reach out to him and tell him that saying ” all lives matter “ is in anyway dismissive of black lives.

    It isn’t, but as any political advisor will tell you, you can never deviate from the talking points.

  182. but lame that ending

    you can never deviate from the talking points.

    suggested we’re all drones, which we ‘re not

    Its set , setting and intention. That black guy Dwight made a fine point
    The Gammon in England waving his “All lives Matter” is a different species

    Its obvious all lives matter, it doesn’t need to be said, (all life matters), but right now were in a period of history where enough is enough, its as simple as that.
    Black Lives Matter is the focus , “Right matters” came up time and time again in the Impeachment .

    Peeps need to rise above their petty prejudices and get with the program, see the bigger picture , or don’t
    and instead remain offended ,smug, flatulent, condescending and anal 😉
    your choice !

  183. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-IV_gYKZPw

  184. Nobody has said that ‘all lives matter’ is dismissive of black people. That’s silly, but as someone likes to say around here, “It’s fun to say silly things.”
    The misperception doesn’t come from the BLM side, it comes from the side who are trying to say that BLM means Only BLM or BLM More.
    But hey – your anecdote and Mahons’ statement about ‘One must not…’ have convinced me!

  185. “get with the program”

    Sounds a bit like dictatorial indoctrination kurt !

  186. PS – Kurt

    You’re an Englishman. It’s Programme 🙂

  187. Seimi- We are constantly advised here that All Lives Matter is dismissive of black people.

  188. Yes

    I have heard that many times on radio and TV

    The cult gets enraged is you say All Lives Matter

  189. This is a moment in history, a powerful one, the clock is never going back on this one
    Just a pity two guys both actually residents of New York have completely missed its significance and importance. Selah ..

  190. Perhaps, instead of just listening to what other people are constantly telling you, you should read up on what ALM & BLM actually signify?

  191. Seimi

    What does that mean ? Surely it depends on what reading you choose .

  192. Colm
    That’s true, actually. The things I have read about ALM/BLM have lead me to my explanation of it earlier, whereas the Americans have been told that it means ‘to be racist.’ I disagree with their understanding of it, and they disagree with mine.
    I suppose the difficulty here is that many Americans believe BLM to be a racist organisation, but to say ALM marks them as racist. But if they don’t support BLM, then they are also seen as racist!

  193. Seimi

    My original question to kurt was based on a news report here in the Uk which mentioned an American city where a Black Lives Matter mural painted on a road had been changed overnight by some ‘vandals’ into All Lives Matter. The news report focused on local activists and black residents who were appalled by the alteration decrying it as a ‘”hateful racist attack” and expressing their pain and hurt over the alteration which I regarded as a ludicrous and fake complaint.

  194. Also funny part is BLM complaining about vandalism to “artwork”.

  195. cynicism rules in the mahonian world, oh ye of little faith 🙁

  196. I would agree, Colm. It does appear to be fake complaining.
    Did the original artists have to get permission to paint it? If so, then presumably, the people who changed it did so without permission, and possibly a case could be made for changing an approved piece of art without approval or something? But I don’t think the people who altered it are vandals. They are activists/protestor, the same as the people who painted the original piece.
    I actually do think it’s artwork. Not very good artwork; artwork that is blunt and lacking any subtlety. But artwork, nonetheless.

  197. yeah colm I haven’t got time for cry – babies, its ludicrous you’re right
    This thing this phenomena is so much bigger than signs and stickers, its an evolutionary thrust , and its not going back in its box.~

    Ok so we deplore the loss of that 8yr old in Atlanta, we deplore violence , much like we deplored IRA bombings , but we see a future, we hold onto the dream like Martin Luther had and we go forward united and strong. That is exactly what Biden is doing , for example ..

  198. Sorry kurt but Biden is no saviour. He is a decrepit old loser . The worst candidate the Dems could put up against Trump. If he wins it will be purely because of Trump’s unpopularity. The Democrats should be ashamed they couldn’t find anyone else who could have actually inspired a positive and fresh change for the future. Trump is easy to beat but by God are they making it hard with the insipid blundering Biden.

  199. Biden is the best of who could have won the primary. A low bar but true.

  200. Mahons

    Don’t you think that Pete Buttigieg guy could have been a refreshing moderate candidate, Yes I know he is gay but surely he would have been more vigorous and inspiring than Biden.

  201. Mayor Pete or Amy Klobachar would be looking pretty good right about now.

    The others would have been a divisive waste in my opinion

    Trump is an arch incompetent who completely screwed up the Covid thing, but I swear to you he can win. His ace in the hole is the Democrat base the BLM movement the rioters and statue topplers.

  202. I agree with you Phantom. A quiet silent majority may not be willing to vote for Trump but they may stay at home unwilling to endorse Biden if they feel he is lead by the radical BLM and ‘street fighting’ leftist fascists.

  203. Both parties are I think completely hated by huge numbers of Americans. This has never happened before.

    The Republicans have a complete criminal and incompetent at the top, much of the base of the Democrats are looters, vandals, race baiters, who are ascendent, and legions of milksop drones who won’t criticize them.

  204. lmao and biden is a million miles from that base, but the gullible will believe anything
    put up or shut up !
    list the endorsements of Biden and what your worried about as regards BLM
    the speeches , the quotes, c’mon show us what ya got.
    pats got claims that 119 million dollars is Dems funding BLM
    take a stand .. true or false pats claim ?

  205. WASHINGTON — Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has “lost touch” with her native Baltimore after she refused to condemn the toppling of a statue in the city over the weekend.

    In a Thursday evening tweet, the Republican governor blasted Pelosi’s indifference to the destruction of a statue of Christopher Columbus on July 4 by activists, telling reporters, “People will do what they do.”

    “It’s disappointing that Speaker Pelosi has lost touch with the Baltimore community that her family served,” Hogan wrote on Twitter.

    Pelosi’s father, Thomas D’Alesandro Jr., served as mayor of Baltimore from 1947 to 1959, followed by her brother Thomas L. J. D’Alesandro III, who held the job from 1967 to 1971.

    “While efforts towards peaceful change are welcome, there is no place in Maryland for lawlessness, vandalism, and destruction of public property,” Hogan continued.

    “Our state and nation need room for more constructive dialogue, not destruction. We will not let mobs ‘do what they do.’ They do not represent Baltimore,” he added, referring to Pelosi’s remarks.

    ( NY Post )

    A very senior politician in your party, Kurt, won’t criticize the statue vandals. Now, that’s leadership.

  206. kurt is lost in the the fog of a radical bubble – he cannot see the real world beyond it !

  207. Lol that cute colm but alas untrue
    The people that are lost are those who don’t appreciate the times were in and the lasting significance of that public anger on our institutions. . Nanci gets it .

  208. Ms Pelosi is as fossilised as Mr Biden. Drain out the old blood, pump in some new blood 😉

  209. nah, she’s pure class, surprising comment colm
    she hold the key to checks and balances , Trump hates her

    but lets see how this plays out

    BLM could progress into something special for change, obama-like
    or it could just get like black version of KKK
    or white racists could spark a race war
    we don’t now – these are unknown

  210. perhaps leave the last word to Rumsfield 😉

    “But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns

    Its actually gained some respectability that phrase ..

  211. Colm – I don’t think Pete was electable. The goal is to defeat Trump, which requires a more centrist candidate. Hopefully Biden remembers that need.
    Nancy Pelosi was so weak on the vandalism of that statue, it was embarrassing for her.

  212. kurt

    If BLM widens into a more comprehensive empowering movement prepared to look at ways of working with the police and authorities to improve relationships and police behaviour and also prepared to address other issues like the appalling levels of black on black crimes and killings in urban areas then it can become the force for good it intends to be. If it stays as just a radical street agitating anti-police movement it won’t.

  213. Chink of light there Colm . There’s pressure groups all over like NRA . BLM can do good things . we’ll see .