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Stone Immaculate…..

By Patrick Van Roy On July 11th, 2020

138 Responses to “Stone Immaculate…..”

  1. I’m shocked that a corrupt POTUS should bail out his corrupt pal. Totally shocked.

    Another gift to Biden to campaign on. Along with Trump’s missing tax returns, you know, the ones he promised to publish years ago. They must contain some really bad shit, given the lengths he has gone to in order to keep them from the voters. How many pay-offs to prostitutes and how much tax-dodging could they show? We can only wonder.

  2. Remember when extremely foolish people thought that this guy would drain the swamp?

  3. Stone has plenty of dirt on Trump including the proof of engagement with Trump’s campaign. Trump had to commute Stone or Stone would speak to the investigators. Stone must have really important stuff on Trump because this looks very negative months before an election. How will Republicans react? I don’t expect anything but mild disapproval, if even that. But voters wil take note.

  4. Again Roger stone is very close to Alex Jones

    He used to do a streaming radio show on infowars

    I will keep an eye out to see if he does one again

    He’s an exceptionally interesting guy. Corrupt as the day is long but interesting.

  5. Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.”

  6. What is the point of the rule of law when a person can have a trial, be convicted by a jury and sentenced properly after due process only for a politician to be allowed to just free the person and mock the law. There ought to be a constitutional amendment removing this totally corrupt power that a President has. I say this regardless of the merit of any case or who the President is.

  7. esp as in stone’s case, he had info on the POTUS … needs a new law
    Impeached presidents can’t pardon or commute , that would be just .
    Its a joke this and looks like Trunk has all but given up on a 2nd term
    this action he took is to cover his own ass from future prosecution ..

  8. kurt

    Nothing to do with Impeachment – No President should have this power. The application of justice should be separate from the executive power of politicians.

  9. Clinton and Trump have subverted the pardon power for purely corrupt purposes, Trump more blatantly

    There might be bipartisan support to have it go now

    But removal would require a constitutional amendment, which is very difficult bar to clear

  10. I’m not against pardons or sentence commutation s per se, but this was obviously an abuse.

  11. Perhaps one compromise could be that if the power is retained it cannot be used for any political offences or for individuals the President has a connection or relationship with. I still don’t agree with it but to reduce corruption perhaps an independent panel could be set up which could examine nationwide criminal cases where strong suggestions of unfair sentencing or other mitigating circumstances meriting some remedial action by the President or a Governor (do Governors have these powers ?) – but the President could only deal with cases recommended to him.

  12. I used to support this power

    I believe that it has often been used for acts of genuine mercy, when used by presidents or governors

    But Bill Clinton sort of ruined it for me with his pardon for the fugitive criminal Mark Rich, and his pardon of Puerto Rican terrorists

    This act by Trump is the last straw. It is pure racketeering, pure subversion of justice, for a lifelong crony.

  13. Roger Stone is almost 80, he lied under oath and lied to Congress.

    He was found Guilty by a Jury that was led by a Clinton Operative who they have documented bias against both him and Trump. Which is why he is appealing his conviction.

    They want to send an 80yr old man to Jail to die because he did the same exact action that FBI Director Andrew McCabe did. Lied under Oath, and Lied to Congress, yet to this date has not been charged.

    A two tier Justice System one for Democrats and Government officials and one for everyone else.

    Trump did NOT Pardon him, he is still guilty and still going through the appeal process, but you all just want the man to die because he has the nerve to support Trump.

    You all need to reevaluate your personal morality.

  14. So I take it you support releasing all old men from prison?

  15. He supports releasing all Republicans from prison

    Two standards of justice, with justice for none

    Exactly what he supports

  16. Absolute nonsense Patrick. Trump has commuted the sentence passed by a court of law on a friend and ally and effectively allowed him to face no consequences for his crime. It is an act of Political corruption and you support it which makes a mockery of your long standing claim to be a defender of the rule of law. Speaking for myself in my original comment here I made no mention of the merits of the case. My opposition to this corruption is nothing to do with Trump. I don’t believe any politician should have this power.

    However even if your allegation is true about McCabe not being charged for a crime that is irrelevent to the Stone case. That’s like saying because Mr Smith got off with beating his neighbour Mr Jones should get off with raping his.

  17. No I support equal application of the Law…… try it sometime.

  18. Ps Patrick – Nobody here says Trump has pardoned him – and nobody here said they want him to die for supporting Trump, so why level those baseless accusations at other commenters here.

  19. Patrick supports amending the constitution to introduce term limits.

    Patrick also opposes removing the presidential powers of pardon and commutation, because that would involve amending the constitution.

    Go figure.

  20. Patrick

    You don’t support equal application of the law. You support corrupt Presidential power to protect criminal friends and allies and subvert justice. Although I concede you may well be perfectly content to allow such abuses to be equally applied by all Presidents Dem and Rep.

  21. Look I have no problem with Stone going to jail, F him, but if he has to go to jail then everyone that has been proven to have lied under oath and to Congress must go to jail also.

    That includes the Majority of the Obama Administration’s Justice Dept, plus Clapper and Brennan.

    Stone is a nobody and you want him locked up while you support Government Officials whose very job is the fair and balanced application of the Law who have committed the exact same crimes to go free.

    The fact that you all support him going to jail while they walk free….. is a lack of morality.

  22. Colm he did NOT Pardon him.

    Stone is still guilty and has a recorded conviction.

  23. Patrick

    We know that. I have already stated that nobody here says Trump pardoned him so why do you keep implying commenters here have ?

  24. “Stone is a nobody and you want him locked up while you support Government Officials whose very job is the fair and balanced application of the Law who have committed the exact same crimes to go free.”

    How many of them have had those accusations proven beyond any and all reasonable doubts in a court of law?

  25. Patrick

    You 1:25pm comment is both correct in part and fake in part . Can you guess which ?

  26. because you all are acting like he’s been pardoned.

    Not one of you complained about the 1750 commutations that Obama issued.

  27. How many of them have had those accusations proven beyond any and all reasonable doubts in a court of law?

    Andrew McCabe

  28. Where was it proven beyond any and all reasonable doubts in a court of law, that Andrew McCabe lied under oath and lied to Congress?

  29. Andrew McCabe was not convicted in a court of law. That is false.

  30. Patrick

    I have complained whenever the issue of Presidential pardons/commutations is mentioned. I have always opposed it. I believe Politicians should not have the authority to interfere in individual criminal cases convictions or sentences. My opposition is not based on any remote partisan imperative.

  31. He was Fired for Lying Under Oath and Lying to Congress. The DOJ just like in the Flynn case dropped the criminal charges when ordered by a Judge to either proceed with prosecution or drop the criminal charges.

    McCabe admitted he LIED, but an admission even by the subject of his guilt means nothing, just another double standard.

    Flynn must get life because he pled guilty, well so did McCabe. Two of the same exact crimes committed by McCabe and nothing, but the two Trump supporters must go to jail for life.

    Judge tells DOJ to file charges against McCabe or end …

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/judge-tells-doj
    A federal judge has given the Department of Justice an ultimatum regarding former acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe: file charges or drop their probe of whether McCabe …

    Author: Ronn Blitzer

  32. I disagreed with clemency for Manning and the Puerto Rican terrorist as I recall. Most of Obama’s clemency acts were for non violent drug offenders. I have no objections to those. I can’t recall him granting clemency it a personal politically motivated situation such as what was done here.

  33. My argument is not with you Colm

  34. Your link is broken. Stop just copy and pasting from where you got it because it isn’t copying the full link.

    “Flynn must get life because he pled guilty, well so did McCabe. Two of the same exact crimes committed by McCabe and nothing, but the two Trump supporters must go to jail for life.”

    No one is calling for a life sentence, and they will not recieve life sentences. If going to prison while older is now a life sentence then I suppose you support releasing every elderly prisoner?

    “He was Fired for Lying Under Oath and Lying to Congress. The DOJ just like in the Flynn case dropped the criminal charges when ordered by a Judge to either proceed with prosecution or drop the criminal charges.”

    So you are now admitting that it has never been proven beyond reasonable doubt in a court?

  35. Sorry Patrick – you said he was convicted in a court of law. That was untrue and you can’t dance away from it now.

  36. He was clearly convicted in a court of law. All 800,000 jurors found him guilty.

  37. “The DOJ just like in the Flynn case dropped the criminal charges when ordered by a Judge to either proceed with prosecution or drop the criminal charges.”

    That is also a lie. The DOJ took the McCabe case to a grand jury and the grand jury told them to fuck away off. The DOJ went to the grand jury to indict McCabe, and despite the fact that a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich, the grand jury refused to indict. The Judge didn’t tell them to drop criminal charges. The DOJ were blocking the release of materials because it “could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings”. The Judge told them to charge him or he would release the documents. He didn’t say charge him or drop the case.

  38. Once again Seamus shows he is unrivalled as ATW’s master of fact checking 🙂

  39. I’m not dancing away from nothing, you’re spinning to justify your support for a two tier justice system Mahons.

  40. Semus if you can’t do a google search which we all know you can I’m not going to write out everything sorry.

    If you don’t like the way I do my posts or comment, then don’t comment.

    You certainly won’t dictate how I present information.

  41. Since Seamus is to hung over to use a computer

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/judge-tells-doj-to-file-charges-against-mccabe-or-end-investigation

  42. “Since Seamus is to hung over to use a computer”

    That would be “too” and “hung-over”.

  43. You wrote he was convicted in a court of law. He wasnt. Why do you constantly think people here will not catch you out?

  44. Stone is not aged 80, he is 67.

    He received commutation rather than pardon because with commutation you can take the fifth amendment in testimony before congress and with pardon you cannot.

    Stone knows the specifics of the collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign. That is why Trump gave him the commutation. Had he spoken honestly to Mueller the outcome of Mueller’s investigation would have been very different. This is probably the final chapter on how Trump gets away with becoming president because the Russians made him president.

  45. New Yorker

    Very interesting

    It’s good to hear from somebody who knows something about a subject

  46. Patrick

    Why did you say that he was 80 years old?

    Every media report that I see reported his correct page; you chose to write the wrong age.

    Is this a Fox News type “ mistake “?

  47. Age

  48. Roger Stone did nothing wrong. A great injustice, brought on him by crooked people, has been righted.

  49. What a shocker. I really did not expect Pete to take that view 🙂

  50. See that petem comment above . I argue that that stupidity and willful disregard of the rule of law is far more dangerous to the fabric of society than a few statues being torn down. Do you agree ?
    That question is to Colm mahons and phantom who have pilloried me over ambivalence towards BLM actions

  51. We – well certainly I – haven’t pilloried you. Just expressed a different opinion than you.

    BTW – Criticizing one thing (judicial political corruption) doesn’t mean you can’t also be critical of something (mob vandalism of statues).

  52. Do any Trump supporters Have any regard for the rule of law whatsoever?

  53. ..something else

  54. Do any Trump supporters Have any regard for the rule of law whatsoever?

    Probably more so than Robert Mueller. There was literally no crime here. Stone has probably committed a ton of crimes in his life, but Mueller had him framed in this case.

  55. So it’s proper that this president commutes sentences for his personal allies and pulls strings to,aid other buddies ( Flynn )?

    This is what draining the swamp means, yes?

  56. I would say that Charles has a regard for the rule of law.

    The swamp isn’t being drained, but by the time Trump is done, it’ll be overflowing.

  57. Flynn and Stone are innocent of the charges laid against them. For all the posts you put up about these men you never substantiate the charges.

    PVR had it right when he described them as process crimes. Flynn and Stone were pressured to spill whatever beans they had about Trump and Russia. Flynn’s son was threatened unless Flynn admitted to a lie he never made. Stone admitted nothing because there was nothing to admit. So all Mueller could come up with was BS “process crimes” but nothing about Russian collusion. The entire ride has been a journey of bullshit.

    Roger Stone and General Flynn are men who deserve to sleep in their own beds. Robert Mueller does not.

  58. “For all the posts you put up about these men you never substantiate the charges.”

    Flynn plead guilty, and Stone was convicted (proved beyond any reasonable doubt).

  59. Seamus –

    Flynn pleaded guilty to a crime he didn’t commit because Mueller was threatening his son.

    Stone was convicted way beyond reasonable doubt. The charges were bullshit and the jury foreperson (in heavily Democrat and strongly anti-Trump DC) was an anti-Trump activist. This passage is absolutely correct:

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/506876-why-this-roger-stone-commutation-is-not-as-controversial-as-some-think

    “The biggest problem is that the foreperson of Stone’s trial jury was a Democratic activist and an outspoken critic of Trump and his associates who even wrote publicly about Stone’s case; despite multiple opportunities to do so, she never disclosed her prior statements and actions, which would have demonstrated her bias. Trial Judge Amy Berman Jackson shrugged off all that, however, and refused to grant Stone a new trial — denying him the most basic protection afforded in our system.”

    The charges were a sham, the jury selection was a sham, the trial as a sham. At the very least, if people like you and Phantom claim to support the rule of law, you must say that Stone ought to have had a retrial because he was denied his constitutional rights.

  60. “Flynn pleaded guilty to a crime he didn’t commit because Mueller was threatening his son.”

    If his son hadn’t done anything wrong then that threat would be meaningless. Flynn Jr was up to his neck in his father’s crimes. This would be like a mafia don taking a deal in exchange for them not charging his mafioso son.

    “Stone was convicted way beyond reasonable doubt. The charges were bullshit and the jury foreperson (in heavily Democrat and strongly anti-Trump DC) was an anti-Trump activist.”

    And? The judge, in February, dismissed that argument. There would have been an extensive voir dire, the Stone team would have had the opportunity to question and even remove Tomeka Hart. Other jurors have also come forward to defend Hart, saying she was impartial (and made the most pro-Stone comments in the jury room).

    “The charges were a sham, the jury selection was a sham, the trial as a sham. At the very least, if people like you and Phantom claim to support the rule of law, you must say that Stone ought to have had a retrial because he was denied his constitutional rights.”

    That is, in the interest of the rule of law, for a judge to decide. And a judge has already ruled on it. The Donald and his minions didn’t get the decision they were looking for and so have subverted the process.

  61. The Supreme Court found in McDonough Power Equipment, Inc. v. Greenwood:

    We hold that to obtain a new trial in such a situation, a party must first demonstrate that a juror failed to answer honestly a material question on voir dire, and then further show that a correct response would have provided a valid basis for a challenge for cause.

    So in order for Stone to get a retrial he would have to prove that Hart lied on the voir dire, and then show that said lie would have provided the defence team with grounds for a challenge. All of these “revelations” about Tomeka Hart were admitted to during voir dire. They aren’t “revelations”. The Stone team knew about them. Roger Stone himself knew about (he was sitting there). So unless there is new information to suggest that Hart lied on voir dire then there is no jury misconduct, no impartiality problems with the jury, and the verdict stands. Which is what the judge found in February of this year when Stone tried this bullshit line of argument.

  62. Stone’s defence team knew that she was familiar with the Mueller investigation, that she was familiar with Stone, they knew she was a Democratic activist and had ran for Congress, the Court specifically asked about political bias, and then Stone’s team still didn’t challenge her.

  63. You said it Seamus –

    Stone’s defence team knew that she was familiar with the Mueller investigation, that she was familiar with Stone, they knew she was a Democratic activist and had ran for Congress ..

    .. and the judge shrugged it off. The president didn’t expunge Stone’s conviction but at least he’s ensured that an innocent isn’t in prison.

  64. “.. and the judge shrugged it off.”

    Why did Stone’s defence team not challenge her? They had no problem with her being on the jury. They knew all of those things before the trial. And did nothing to challenge her place on it. So they can’t cry foul after the fact. The Supreme Court are clear about that.

    “The president didn’t expunge Stone’s conviction but at least he’s ensured that an innocent isn’t in prison.”

    He was found guilty by a fair jury.

  65. “Flynn pleaded guilty to a crime he didn’t commit because Mueller was threatening his son.”

    If his son hadn’t done anything wrong then that threat would be meaningless. Flynn Jr was up to his neck in his father’s crimes. This would be like a mafia don taking a deal in exchange for them not charging his mafioso son.

    What crimes did his father commit that he was upto his neck in….. ?

    He was under investigation by the FBI/NSA and all they could do was frame/blackmail him, so I ask what crimes was he involved in that his son was upto his neck in ?

  66. Flynn broke no laws and they destroyed his life, he lost his job, his retirement, and his home, he has been bankrupted defending himself when he had done nothing.

    They then said you plead guilty or we bring your son in.

    They destroyed Flynns life with no crimes, but yeah his son had nothing to worry about if he hadn’t done anything either…….

  67. Stone’s team did challenge her. The judge bizarrely “rejected Stone’s lawyers claims that any anti-Trump remarks by the juror are implicitly anti-Stone, as the two men are longtime associates.” Yes, bizarre.

    The judge wrote that “linking them together in a sentence does not make them one and the same; there is zero evidence of ‘explicit bias’ against Stone, and defendant’s attempts to gain a new trial based on implied or inferred bias fail.”

    The point of the prosecution was that Stone was an associate of the president. The US was once able to accuse Third World countries of this kind of injustice. Thanks to the Dems and left wing method that ends always justify means, the country cannot legitimately do that any more.

  68. Flynn Jr was Flynn Sr’s Chief of Staff and helped run his “lobbying” firm. Was up to his neck in the dealings with the Russians, with RT, with the Putin regime, with the Erdoğan regime. Flynn Jr was holding his father’s bag at meetings with Vladimir Putin in 2015. The Flynn’s only registered this work after the fact, in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

  69. Lol they’ll lie about Democrats being guilty and Republicans being innocent. ATW’s daily bread.

  70. “Stone’s team did challenge her. The judge bizarrely “rejected Stone’s lawyers claims that any anti-Trump remarks by the juror are implicitly anti-Stone, as the two men are longtime associates.” Yes, bizarre.”

    No they didn’t. You can’t just make shit up.

    https://www.scribd.com/document/446913716/Roger-Stone-jury-selection-transcript-Nov-5-2019

    THE COURT (Judge Amy Jackson): Mr. Buschel, you have a motion?

    MR. BUSCHEL (Robert Buschel, Stone’s attorney): No.

  71. They charged Flynn with Lying about a phone call, nothing to do with the Russians, with RT, with the Putin regime, with the Erdoğan regime.

    So he was doing crime there and the FBI/NSA missed It ? Oh I know they didn’t look…… he was doing all these crimes and all the 2 greatest investigative agencies could charge him with was a phone cal…… lmao… wanna buy a Bridge ?

  72. If Flynn Jr did nothing wrong, and committed no crimes, why would threatening to charge him have any impact on Flynn Sr?

  73. Seamus –

    I lined to it! Jeez.

    https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/2020/04/16/unmoored-from-the-facts-judge-amy-berman-jackson-rejects-roger-stones-bid-for-new-trial/

    “Jackson said Stone’s claims that his jury’s foreperson was biased due to social media posts did not hold up under the law”

  74. ““Jackson said Stone’s claims that his jury’s foreperson was biased due to social media posts did not hold up under the law””

    Which is true. If the Stone team wanted to challenge her they had to do it during Jury selection. They didn’t. They had all the information on her then. And they didn’t remove her, even though they could have.

    So they, after the trial was over, after they got a verdict they didn’t like, tried to claim she was biased. If she was biased they should have removed her before the trial.

    The Supreme Court is clear on that issue. Unless the juror lied about her potential bias (which she did not) then it is not grounds for a retrial.

  75. I’ve looked down this thread and I’m none-the-wiser as to what Stone’s crime was and who were the victims

  76. Amy Berman Jackson is an excellent judge. Stone had a fair trial and was convicted. Judge Jackson ordered him to report to prison next Tuesday. Stone has information that would likely incriminate Trump and ruin his reputation. Trump knew the commutation would be politically damaging a few months before an election, yet he still freed Stone. Trump had to assure Stone’s silence and it had to be done before next Tuesday. Trump tampered with a key witness to save himself. A first and a low in the history of the presidency.

  77. petem pat don’t believe in the rule of law, its a simple as that
    because you keyboard clowns don’t get to pick who is and who is not guilty ,
    that’s a jury’s job – absolute muppets the pair of you .
    end of story.

  78. colm
    brighton had a BLM march 2000 showed, I was at work or would have gone
    sorry to disappoint but they cleared their own litter up
    I know you don’t want to hear things like that, but I’m gonna let you know anyway !
    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18576646.recap-brighton-black-lives-matter-protest-updates/

  79. I read the story earlier kurt. Why would I be dissapointed ?

  80. https://twitter.com/Woj_Pawelczyk/status/1282043258483482627

  81. Your mother called you Sunny didn’t she…… cause you’re so bright.

    Seamus, on July 11th, 2020 at 9:05 PM Said: Edit Comment
    If Flynn Jr did nothing wrong, and committed no crimes, why would threatening to charge him have any impact on Flynn Sr?

    So they destroy his life without having him ever having committed a crime, but the threat of destroying his son’s life he shouldn’t worry about because his son had committed no crimes either…. lmao

    ok skippy

  82. How could they destroy his life if he didn’t do anything? If they charge Flynn Jr and Flynn Jr is innocent then that would be easy to show in court. If Flynn Jr did nothing wrong then threatening to charge Flynn Jr would be an empty threat.

  83. The prospect of facing the full might of the federal government in court would frighten anyone

    The federal government has unlimited resources, no average person does

    But I would think that Flynn and his son are guilty as sin

    Flynn was a top level combat officer

    But somethings snapped in him

    Just the fact that he chose to be associated with the Putin controlled RT TV station Should have set off every red flag in the world

  84. “The federal government has unlimited resources, no average person does”

    And there are rules in place, procedures in place, rights in place, to counter balance those resources. The idea that a truly innocent person could be just set up by the government is kind of farcical. Not incorrectly charged and convicted of a crime committed by someone else, but where the government just made up everything.

  85. colm
    cos it doesn’t fit your narrative that BLM are scum , or was that phantom i forget

  86. Take your meds

  87. And there are rules in place, procedures in place, rights in place, to counter balance those resources. The idea that a truly innocent person could be just set up by the government is kind of farcical. Not incorrectly charged and convicted of a crime committed by someone else, but where the government just made up everything.

    Which is exactly what the Obama Administration did.

    Obama and the Clintons used the FBI/NSA/CIA to setup Donald Trump. It started with the Steele Dossier and Crossfire Hurricane.

    The EVIDENCE shows that every piece of the EVIDENCE used by for the FISA warrants were faked and the whole purpose was to frame Trump with a Russian Conspiracy.

    A Special Prosecutor, Secret Black Box Secret Testimony Hearings in the House, and an Impeachment no President has ever been the subject of such high level prosecution.

    And not one F’ing charge, not one crime because the EVIDENCE falsified by the Obama Administration was just that false.

    and sooner or later people will be going to jail, but it sure as shit won’t be Trump, Flynn, or Stone.

  88. Kurt

    You find the comment where I said BLM are scum and I will concede you are right. If you can’t then hopefully you will your error.

  89. so 99% of blm protests are peaceful, but you guys want to snipe from the sidelines
    do you even want a better world ? or is activism just sitting behind a keyboard being all smart ? and incorrect .. who are the head-bangers i wonder .. ? hey ho

  90. “Which is exactly what the Obama Administration did.”

    If that was the case how did multiple judges, and multiple juries, not throw out the cases?

    “The EVIDENCE shows that every piece of the EVIDENCE used by for the FISA warrants were faked and the whole purpose was to frame Trump with a Russian Conspiracy.”

    There is no evidence to show that any of the evidence for the FISA warrants was faked. You keep repeating this lie. Just because you are so shameful that you lie all the time doesn’t stop your lies being lies.

  91. colm hi
    on a moral equivalence which is worse toppling a few statues or commuting the sentence of Stone , who lets remind ourselves is a convicted felon on 7 charges

    https://meidastouch.com/exclusive-new-video-meidastouch-presents-pardon-me-trump/

  92. “on a moral equivalence which is worse toppling a few statues or commuting the sentence of Stone , who lets remind ourselves is a convicted felon on 7 charges”

    Ok even in the best cases for the toppling of statues (the toppling of statues of the likes of Colston) the actions were at best ethically ambigious (the statue should be removed but should have been done lawfully) and were definately legally wrong. In the worst cases for it (the attacks on the Lincoln Memorial) the actions were ethically wrong and legally wrong.

    In the case of the commutation for Stone, Trump is ethically wrong, but legally correct (he has the absolute legal power to do this).

    There is also no need to drag yet another thread down with this bullshit. If you want to argue that go back to the original thread and have a go.

  93. kurt is demonstrating an element of intolerant ‘liberal fascism’ which is exactly the thing that recent famous letter by various writers/artists sought to protest against. You must not criticize any element of the BLM movement or the behaviour of the protesters, otherwise you will be falsely accused of being a hateful racist who calls black people scum.

  94. “otherwise you will be falsely accused of being a hateful racist who calls black people scum.”
    that’s just lies colm i haven’t said anyone of those things, you’re doing that false thing of putting words in peoples mouths

    1) have i called you a hateful rascist ? NO
    2) have i accused you of saying blacks are scum ? NO

    if you’re going to play the game of moral equivalence you’re going to get pulled up on it .

    I asked which was more dangerous to the fabric of society yesterday?
    It was ducked , as you’re going off on your own trumpet.

    Not blowing it very well either 😉

    try the Shofar

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shofar

  95. kurt

    You falsely said I would be disappointing that the demonstrators in Brighton were well behaved and picked up their litter. You also suggested I considered the BLM movement to be scum. Both false claims. You may not like the fact that I don’t absolutely agree with everything you believe about this issue but that’s no excuse to peddle lies.

  96. colm i found a picture of you defending the status quo and worshipping at the alter of moral equivalence . lol you can’t unsee this.
    Have a good day mate

  97. ah well at least you’re changing the goal posts and retracting , keep going

    how bout answering the question , which is more dangerous to societies fabric
    pat and petem lunancy and immoral defence of stone or a few statues ?
    which undermines more ?
    maybe i can find a place to accept we disagree, but what do you say ?

  98. What is the purpose of this trying to start fights?

  99. to end them phantom

  100. we only have the law to guide us in our difficulties with morality as to whether it is relative or absolute .
    If people are found guilty that’s the guidelines, whether it be all of Trumps felons or any protestors breaking the law, both undermine our moral foundations.

  101. kurt is behaving like a certain person who recently left this site. Its a game I won’t play. I pointed out kurt’s lies about me and I will leave it at that.

  102. Colm.

    When people make up their own facts, everybody can see their making up their own facts. When people lie about others, everybody can see they’re lying about others.
    These people might think they’ve ‘won the argument’, but all they’ve done is make themselves look stupid, foolish and/or dishonest.

  103. Noted Dave – thanks.

    On a happier note, may I recommend viewing the video I put a link to on the Joy of Dance thread. Its a half hour documentary but really fascinating I thought.

  104. Colm.

    I haven’t had a chance to watch most of videos on that thread but they on my to-do list. Cheers.

  105. Dave

    It’s not a music video or about dance.. it’s about spitfires and a schoolgirl… but no it’s not dodgy, it’s on bbc I player 😉

  106. Kurt, being sympathetic towards the central premise of BLM, the high incidence of police brutality against ethnic minorities, while criticising some of their protests are not mutually exclusive positions. I’ve been critical of some BLM actions but it doesn’t equate to me thinking BLM are ‘scum’ and I don’t think Colm thinks it either.

    Turn the heat and emotion down a bit mucker and just accept criticism where it’s warranted. It’s much more nuanced than an either/or position.

    Meanwhile, speaking of violence at protests here’s a video of Dublin yesterday where violent far right extremists attacked an absolutely peaceful counter demonstration:

    https://twitter.com/RobertBohan/status/1281982639600046081

    I’m sure that there will be some here who will be absolutely OUTRAGED at this violent attack of freedom of speech on the streets of Dublin.

  107. Colm,

    //It’s not a music video or about dance.. it’s about spitfires and a schoolgirl… but no it’s not dodgy, it’s on bbc I player 😉 //

    I might have a problem mate, I can’t watch stuff on iPlayer.

  108. Paul that’s a nuanced reply thanks
    Strikes the right note .
    No point throwing the baby out with the bathwater
    Most of these demos are fine .
    That’s my focus .it’s the right sense of proportion

  109. Seamus, on July 12th, 2020 at 10:13 AM Said: Edit Comment
    “Which is exactly what the Obama Administration did.”

    If that was the case how did multiple judges, and multiple juries, not throw out the cases?

    “The EVIDENCE shows that every piece of the EVIDENCE used by for the FISA warrants were faked and the whole purpose was to frame Trump with a Russian Conspiracy.”

    There is no evidence to show that any of the evidence for the FISA warrants was faked. You keep repeating this lie. Just because you are so shameful that you lie all the time doesn’t stop your lies being lies.

    I could start this with a quip, but I’ll be nice.

    If that was the case how did multiple judges, and multiple juries, not throw out the cases?
    What multiple Judges ? Do you really not understand what happened that badly ?

    I’m going to go through this again, maybe you’ll get it maybe you won’t.

    back somewhere in Obama’s second Term probably about 2014 the motions to set Hillary up as the next President began. She had earned her spot and other Sanders had no competition.

    Dealing with the Usual suspects on the Republican side would be easy. You already have a ton of built in dirt on all the Republican candidates. The top 3 being Jeb, Rubio, and Cruz.

    The only civilian in the race was Trump. They had to dig up dirt on Trump. Both the Obama Administration and the Clinton Campaign had to create a file on Trump. Obama opened up Crossfire Hurricane and Hillary engaged the services of Fusion GPS.

    Both groups soul purpose was to find dirt on Trump. It should have been easy. Trump is Trump he’s always been insane, and more importantly he was in Construction in NYC and world wide. There is a lot of mafia controlled segments of the major construction industry and with his colorful character this should have been easy. That was crossfire hurricanes initial objective, but as we know from what is now 6 yrs of investigation there is no corruption in the Trump Business Empire.

    At the same time Fusion GPS was digging into Social Connections and Foreign connections.

    Somehow as sure as everyone was no real dirt could be found by either group, so the manufacturing of dirt begun.

    Enter FGPS with the Steele dossier and your little russian Lawyer etc etc both Steele and Rosabimbo can’t think of here name both contracted by FGPS. While the Obama Administration started running CIA/NSA assets at the Trump campaign, enter the Honey trap with the Australian Ambassador.

    That’s when the false evidence trail was created. Taking that false Evidence they went to ONE COURT FISA a secret court that was designed to hunt terrorists by avoiding Due Process, but still be under the color of Law.

    That is the only court that matters. All other charges, hearings and convictions are the fruit of that poisonous tree. Stone Flynn Manafort and Cohan were all a result of the illegal surveillance.

    Manafort and Cohen were both prosecuted on charges totally unrelated to Trump and the Trump campaign.

    Stone and Flynn were prosecuted for process crimes. A process crime is a crime you commit by how you deal with the Feds. Stone was easy, he’s crazy and always has been his general nature makes a process crime easy. He was charged with lying to Congress, witness tampering and obstruction. The case was placed with a Judge friendly to the administration and the Jury was stacked including making a Democrat Activist the Jury Foreman. And Stone was found Guilty to no one’s shock.

    The Russians Mueller had indicted have all had their day in court and they all have had their charges dismissed for lack of evidence.

    When Trump won they had to eliminate Flynn. The General knows the intelligence community well enough to be considered one of a group of about ten or less people in the US who knows how everyone of our intelligence agencies work. The position he was going to fill in the Trump administration once transition was complete Flynn would uncover crossfire hurricane. That could not be allowed to happen so they went about looking to find leverage on him.

    Inspite of Phantoms insistence that doing business with russian companies like RT it’s not a crime. It’s called capitalism. Using his logic Phantom and his colleagues are guilty of crimes also since they do major business in Russia with Russian Companies.

    But as I said unless doing business with russian companies that aren’t on the sanction list such business is not a crime. If it is Phantoms company is guilty of the same crimes.

    Flynn they thought at the suggestion of JOE BIDEN might be able to be nailed on the Logan Act. They had all the tapes of every phone call he made as part of the transition team. Examination of those tapes showed no crimes. FBI agents were still sent to entrap him and that was their purpose to entrap him. The agents sent illegally to question Flynn and it was illegal. The head of the FBI told Flynn flatout he did not need a lawyer and they avoided running the meeting through the WH Counsel’s office. If they could get him to give even the slightest difference of what was on the tapes he’d be guilty of lying to the FBI.

    The Original 302s of that interview found no lies and no reason to go forward. At that point in time it should have been dropped, but instead it was turned over to Comey and his crew to tell Flynn they were going to prosecute him for lying to the FBI.

    Flynn fought, and fought like hell. His mistake was he hired a Law Firm that had as a Sr Partner Eric Holder. Flynns “Legal Team” then engaged in a backdoor negotiation with the FBI. Hiding information from their client. Including exonerating evidence while at the sametime billing him thousands of dollars an hour bankrupting him and causing him to lose his home. Flynn kept fighting even until he was totally bankrupt. At the point of total bankruptcy he was given an ultimatum. You plead guilty or we start this whole process with your son, we’ve already bankrupt you, would you like us to do the same to your son?

    As a good father he fell on the sword, but even the Judge that is now trying to prosecute Flynn on his own told him your attorneys are not representing you he initially refused to accept his plea. At that point Flynn was convinced to change attorneys. At which point he began to try to withdraw his guilty plea, but the same Judge that told him his Lawyers weren’t representing his interest all of a sudden called him in open court a traitor and refused to allow the withdraw of the plea. Then the DOJ dropped the charges and the Judge still refused to dismiss the case even though no one was prosecuting Flynn and decided to prosecute him himself, even now after being ordered by a an Appeals Judge to drop it, he refuses and is demanding a hearing before the ENTIRE appeals court.

    All the convictions and all the charges have an origin in the Poisonous Tree of the FISA court and the falsified evidence. Everything is based on a Phoney Dossier and a FGPS/FBI/NSA pair of honey traps and fake evidence reports of those traps.

    The Mueller investigation proved all this stuff was false. They found NO EVIDENCE of Collusion, no evidence of ANY CRIMES.

    Manafort was convicted of things he did while working with the Podesta Brothers and the Democrats, Cohan was convicted of corruption of unrelated acts in NY, ALL CHARGES against the Russians have been dismissed, and both Flynn and Stone are charged with process crimes, and the Process originated from the Poisonous Tree.

    Obama and the Beast created the worst scandal in American History. They used Russian Disinformation and spies to frame a candidate for the Presidency and after that failed to destroy his Presidency.

    This is the worst crime and greatest threat to our Republic since it was founded. A Sitting President and Secretary of State engaged in a criminal conspiracy to assure that the Secretary of State would be the next President, but it failed miserably. Instead of cutting their losses they continued the operation and shifted it into a unprecedented special prosecution of Sitting President without a crime. That failed and the operation still continued it now was moved to the House where a False Impeachment was setup which also failed.

    All these investigations and hearings have failed because all the original evidence was faked and instead of as they hoped that these investigations would find some crime ANY CRIME they have all found none.

    Yet to you fools Trump stole the Election from Hillary with help of the Russians, and Flynn and Stone are traitors to their country. Lack of Evidence be damned…..

    Baaa Baaa ya pack of ignorant sheep.

  110. “What multiple Judges ? Do you really not understand what happened that badly ?”

    The multiple judges overseeing the multiple of cases. Flynn had a judge. Stone had a judge. Michael Cohen had a judge. Paul Manafort had a judge. George Papadopoulos had a judge. If it was all faked then why did none of the judges dismiss the cases? Are they all deep state too?

    “Manafort and Cohen were both prosecuted on charges totally unrelated to Trump and the Trump campaign.”

    Cohen was convicted of campaign finance violations. How is someone who was convicted of campaign finance violations unrelated to the campaign?

    “The case was placed with a Judge friendly to the administration and the Jury was stacked including making a Democrat Activist the Jury Foreman. And Stone was found Guilty to no one’s shock.”

    Why did Stone’s defence team not file a motion to dismiss Tomeka Hart? Are you really that much of a tinfoil hat type that they were able to rig a secret ballot from 12 jurors to make sure that Hart was the foreman? Was it Jews again?

    “The Original 302s of that interview found no lies and no reason to go forward.”

    Which is a lie. The Judge reviewed the 302s and found that the draft 302, and the final 302, are “both consistent and clear that Mr. Flynn made false statements to the FBI”. You can’t just keep making shit up. You lie and lie and lie and lie. And someone proves your lies wrong. And yet you still lie and lie and lie and lie. You have no argument. You have no facts. You have nothing but lies.

    ” You plead guilty or we start this whole process with your son, we’ve already bankrupt you, would you like us to do the same to your son?”

    If is son did nothing wrong why would that be a fight. If it was all based on nothing then even a public defender would be able to defend Flynn Jr.

    “All the convictions and all the charges have an origin in the Poisonous Tree of the FISA court and the falsified evidence. Everything is based on a Phoney Dossier and a FGPS/FBI/NSA pair of honey traps and fake evidence reports of those traps.”

    There is no evidence to prove that the Steele Dossier is false. In order for fruit of the poisonous tree to be invoked you need to prove they were false. The onus is on the one bringing the action (ie Flynn). It isn’t up to the FBI to prove that Steele is true, it is up to Flynn to prove that it isn’t. And absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Unless Flynn can prove that it is made up then fruit of the poisonous tree doesn’t apply.

    He would then have to prove that the FBI and DOJ knew it was false. And then he has to prove that if the information was false, and the FBI knew it was false, that if you remove that information that judge wouldn’t have issued a warrant.

    So prove the Steele Dossier was false. Actually false. Not unverified. False. Then prove the DOJ knew it was false, or had a reckless disregard for the truth. Prove those things. Then prove that the investigation wouldn’t have occurred without the Steele Dossier.

    If you can’t do that then fruit of the poisonous tree does not apply and your allegations are bogus.

  111. The Russians indicted by Mueller had their day in Court and had their cases dismissed due to lack of evidence? What would compel you to make such a claim? I’m fascinated by your process of putting forth claims that are so obviously incorrect. Do you actually think people won’t figure it out, or do you just think you’ve sunk so low already that it doesn’t matter?

  112. Your little russian Lawyer etc etc

    Pat, did Donnie Jr and Jared think they were meeting a Russian to get electoral dirt on Clinton?

  113. Justice Department Moves To Drop Charges Against Russian …
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/justice-department
    Concord was charged by Mueller in the special counsel’s first major indictments of Kremlin-linked individuals and groups. The two companies were accused of engaging in “‘information warfare against the United States of America’ ― a systematic effort to sow political discord and influence the outcome of the 2016” presidential election.

    Prosecutors Drop Mueller Charges Against Russian Firm …
    https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/2020/03/16/
    Mar 16, 2020 · Federal prosecutors in Washington on Monday moved to dismiss charges against a Russian company charged by the special counsel’s office …

    you were saying Mahons….. ?

  114. Pat, did Donnie Jr and Jared think they were meeting a Russian to get electoral dirt on Clinton?

    Yes and meeting with anyone to get campaign dirt on your opponent is not illegal even if that person is a Foreigner, or do you believe everyone that had contact with the Steele Dossier is guilty of something also ? He was a British Spy, not an American.

    Using your logic the Hillary campaign and the Justice dept are guilty of the same crime.

  115. Well, I’m glad that at long last Patrick agrees that the Trump people colluded with hostile foreigners in the campaign

    Good lad.

  116. Yes and meeting with anyone to get campaign dirt on your opponent is not illegal even if that person is a Foreigner

    Who said anything about illegal or crime?

    The fact is that senior members of the Trump administration met with foreign representatives thinking that they were going to get dirt to use against their political rival.

    There’s your Russian collusion. You admit it yourself.

  117. “What multiple Judges ? Do you really not understand what happened that badly ?”

    The multiple judges overseeing the multiple of cases. Flynn had a judge. Stone had a judge. Michael Cohen had a judge. Paul Manafort had a judge. George Papadopoulos had a judge. If it was all faked then why did none of the judges dismiss the cases? Are they all deep state too?

    They’re charges were all fruit of the Poisonous Tree and therefore should all be thrown out on that basis. They didn’t know this, nor did they care, Manafort and Cohan even though they are guilty of the crimes they committed a case for dismissal will be made after the charges against the Justice Dept are delivered by Durham. Not because they aren’t guilty. but because of the tainted evidence trail of these prosecutions. The evidence against Papadopoulos was a Honey trap that involved the Australian Ambassador who also donated 100,000 to the Clinton Campaign and an NSA asset.

    I notice you didn’t mention Carter Page who was also set up and exculpatory evidence that he was on the CIA payroll was withheld and the evidence against him came from a CIA asset.

    The Charges against Cohen

    The charges against Michael Cohen are as follows:

    5 counts of evasion of assessment of income tax liability.
    1 count false statements to a bank.
    1 count causing an unlawful corporate contribution.
    1 count excessive campaign contribution.

    The campaign finance charge weren’t even political contributions. They called paying hookers Hush money as Campaign Finance”

    In entering the plea, Cohen did not name the two women or even Trump, recounting instead that he worked with an “unnamed candidate.”

    But the amounts and the dates all lined up with the $130,000 paid to Daniels and the $150,000 that went to Playboy Playmate Karen McDougal to buy their silence in the weeks and months leading up to the 2016 White House election. Both women claimed to have had affairs with Trump, which he denies.

    If he wasn’t dead guilty of being a pos swindling cab companies that charge could have been fought and dismissed, but to limit his time in jail for his real crimes he pled guilty to all.

    “The Original 302s of that interview found no lies and no reason to go forward.”

    Which is a lie. The Judge reviewed the 302s and found that the draft 302, and the final 302, are “both consistent and clear that Mr. Flynn made false statements to the FBI”. You can’t just keep making shit up. You lie and lie and lie and lie. And someone proves your lies wrong. And yet you still lie and lie and lie and lie. You have no argument. You have no facts. You have nothing but lies.

    Funny that a Judge reviewed 302s that weren’t even found until after the guilty plea. The original 302s the real ones weren’t “found” by the justice dept until last month. I guess the Judge is also a psychic and was remote viewing missing evidence that was being held and buried by Flynns original team of lawyers. So wrong Seamus.

    ” You plead guilty or we start this whole process with your son, we’ve already bankrupt you, would you like us to do the same to your son?”

    If is son did nothing wrong why would that be a fight. If it was all based on nothing then even a public defender would be able to defend Flynn Jr.

    I know you’re not stupid but your insistence that after someone has been bankrupted and destroyed by the FBI without ever commiting a crime the threat of them doing the exact same thing to his son would have no effect on his decision is stupid.

    Ahhh now the Cuedegrass

    “All the convictions and all the charges have an origin in the Poisonous Tree of the FISA court and the falsified evidence. Everything is based on a Phoney Dossier and a FGPS/FBI/NSA pair of honey traps and fake evidence reports of those traps.”

    There is no evidence to prove that the Steele Dossier is false. In order for fruit of the poisonous tree to be invoked you need to prove they were false. The onus is on the one bringing the action (ie Flynn). It isn’t up to the FBI to prove that Steele is true, it is up to Flynn to prove that it isn’t. And absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Unless Flynn can prove that it is made up then fruit of the poisonous tree doesn’t apply.

    He would then have to prove that the FBI and DOJ knew it was false. And then he has to prove that if the information was false, and the FBI knew it was false, that if you remove that information that judge wouldn’t have issued a warrant.

    So prove the Steele Dossier was false. Actually false. Not unverified. False. Then prove the DOJ knew it was false, or had a reckless disregard for the truth. Prove those things. Then prove that the investigation wouldn’t have occurred without the Steele Dossier.

    If you can’t do that then fruit of the poisonous tree does not apply and your allegations are bogus.

    Let me refer you to a post that I’m sure you refused to read because it contradicts your entire stupidity…….

    from YESTERDAY…….
    http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=84291

    The never ending web of corruption by the Obama Administration gets bigger and stickier than ever.

    New Steele evidence strengthens Durham prosecution as frustration over inaction grows
    A British court decision unmasks new evidence of FBI abuses in the Russia collusion probe.
    https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/new-steele-evidence-strengthens-durham-prosecution

    It was in London that the whole Russia collusion caper began four years ago, so it seems only fitting that as the discredited probe enters its final phase that damning new evidence of the FBI’s failures would emerge back in England.

    This week when a British judge ruled against the former FBI human source Christopher Steele, the decision delivered more than an order for the former spy’s company to pay damages to two Russian businessmen maligned by his dossier.

    It also introduced new incontrovertible evidence that bolsters Attorney General William Barr’s and U.S. Attorney John Durham’s probe into whether the FBI engaged in misconduct and criminally deceived the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to win permission to spy on the Trump campaign.

    Buried in Justice Mark Warby’s ruling were several new pieces of evidence that answer long lingering questions about just what the FBI knew, and when it knew it.

    Warby’s lengthy ruling unearthed a gem of new evidence to answer the question: Steele kept his own notes of what he told FBI agents the first time he met them on July 5, 2016 in London to discuss his anti-Trump Russia research.

    And, Warby revealed, the notes make clear that Steele told his FBI handlers from the get-go that the dossier’s “ultimate client were (sic) the leadership of the Clinton presidential campaign.”

    So the FBI knew immediately that the dossier it used to justify a FISA warrant targeting the Trump campaign was a political opposition research product designed to help Clinton defeat her Republican opponent and did not divulge the connection.

    and there is more.

    The British evidence continues, noting that Steele openly admitted he was leaking to the news media while working for the FBI.

    “Mr Steele admits briefing journalists about Orbis’ work, and the documentary evidence and cross-examination make it clear that, in and after late September 2016 he was heavily and enthusiastically involved in doing so,” the judge wrote.

    Remarkably, one of the media outlets that Steele talked with was used by the FBI in the FISA warrant as independent corroboration for his dossier when in fact it was circular reporting.

    Finally, Steele admitted in the court proceedings that he did little to verify information he got from sources and gave to the FBI unfiltered and unvetted. In fact, the court dissected just one of the many memos that made up Steele’s dossier and found five factually inaccurate, unverified statements.

    So there it is admitted to, and proven FACT that the Steele Dossier was not only FAKE disinformation acquired by Steele from the Russian’s, but proof that the FBI knew the information was fake and presented it as evidence to the FISA Court.

    That was a post I did yesterday…… It’s on the front page. The Steele Dossier is a FAKE admitted to being a fake an adjudicated in a British Court of Law as being FAKE……

    But FACTS don’t matter to you Seamus do they ?

  118. Who said anything about illegal or crime? Seamus did.

    The fact is that senior members of the Trump administration met with foreign representatives thinking that they were going to get dirt to use against their political rival.

    There’s your Russian collusion. You admit it yourself.

    Please show me a crime here Paul.

    Meeting with foreigners for dirt is not a Crime, and there is no such Crime as “Collusion”.

  119. No one has said “ crime “ here

    You’ve been befuddled on this matter for years here

    There was collusion by Trump and by his goons with Russians. We all appear to agree on that.

  120. “The campaign finance charge weren’t even political contributions. They called paying hookers Hush money as Campaign Finance””

    To avoid an embarrassing news story during a political campaign. Thus it was campaign spending. And he broke the law on that campaign spending. Thus it was illegality associated with the Trump campaign.

    “Funny that a Judge reviewed 302s that weren’t even found until after the guilty plea. The original 302s the real ones weren’t “found” by the justice dept until last month. I guess the Judge is also a psychic and was remote viewing missing evidence that was being held and buried by Flynns original team of lawyers.”

    Can you show where new “original” 302s were “found” by the DOJ last month?

    “Let me refer you to a post that I’m sure you refused to read because it contradicts your entire stupidity…….”

    I did read it. In fact I commented on it and you didn’t respond. It doesn’t say what you think it says.

    “So there it is admitted to, and proven FACT that the Steele Dossier was not only FAKE disinformation acquired by Steele from the Russian’s, but proof that the FBI knew the information was fake and presented it as evidence to the FISA Court.”

    Words have meaning. Unverified doesn’t mean fake. It means unverified. Prove that it was fake, and that the FBI knew it was fake. Not that it was unverified. That it was fake.

    “But FACTS don’t matter to you Seamus do they ?”

    Not to you clearly. Made up bullshit matters to you. At least you have avoided the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories this time and have stuck to just generic conspiracy theories.

  121. you say collusion as if it was something nefarious or illegal.

    It is neither, if it was bothsides are guilty.

    Wear a crime comes in is when you do so and use what you get in an illegal manner.

    The Trump team got nothing from the russian meeting, so they had nothing to use illegally or legally.

    The Clinton team got false information and used it both as Legal evidence funneled through FGPS to the FBI which used Falsified evidence to get warrants, and illegally leaking not just information to the press, but FALSE information…..

    but to someone who has TDS the Trump team is Guilty while the Clinton team is shiney and good.

  122. This guy has been playing stupid on this since forever

    No point in detailed rebuttals which will not be understood, or read,

  123. Nunes: Original FBI 302 Report Used to Brief Congress …
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/nunes
    May 10, 2020 · Congressman Nunes told Maria Bartiromo on Sunday that the original Flynn FBI 302 report used to brief Congress is still ‘missing.’ Advertisement – story continues below It was revealed in October former FBI lawyer Lisa Page EDITED General Mike Flynn’s 302 report, then lied …

    DOJ Claims “They Don’t Have” Original Flynn 302 After …
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/09/doj
    Sep 10, 2019 · The DOJ claimed they don’t have the original Flynn 302. “They say they don’t have it, but it would certainly be in the FBI’s computer system. Things don’t disappear like that. So that still needs to be produced,” Sidney Powell argued to the Court.

    Please note the date of those stories…. long after the whole Plea business started the Original 302s were still missing.

    So how did a Judge before they were found review them ?

  124. Please show me a crime here Paul

    I repeat again Pat, who has said anything about crime or illegality?

    Senior members of the Trump administration colluded with foreign agents thinking they would get dirt to us against a political rival. There’s your Russian collusion, you admit it yourself.

  125. Words have meaning. Unverified doesn’t mean fake. It means unverified. Prove that it was fake, and that the FBI knew it was fake. Not that it was unverified. That it was fake.

    Words have meaning…… you mean like the words that appear on a FISA Court Evidence admission form that states the EVIDENCE is factual and VERIFIED….. and signed UNDER OATH that is factual and verified?

    Words like that ?

    The Steele Dossier was not Factual and it was NEVER VERIFIED by your own admission.

    But those words sworn to 4 times by corrupt FBI directors that the information presented to the court was Factual and Verified…. those words don’t count. The only ones that do are the ones you choose.

    Only idiots and you Seamus still believe the Steele Dossier was anything other than Russian disinformation.

  126. Senior members of the Trump administration colluded with foreign agents thinking they would get dirt to us against a political rival. There’s your Russian collusion, you admit it yourself.

    So what?

    Explain in your words what that means and why it matters.

  127. It means that senior members of the Trump administration colluded with foreign agents thinking that they would get dirt to use against a political rival and that that’s the Russian collusion by the Trump administration which you have consistently denied until now.

    We now all agree that the Trump administration colluded with Russian agents in order to influence the election.

  128. no we don’t.

    Even if “collusion” meant anything to collude there must be an exchange or cooperation of some kind.

    The Trump campaign received nothing, gave, nothing, and no cooperation of anykind ever took place.

    Even Mueller said that, so if you want to keep believing false things like your partner Seamus go right ahead.

    There was NO Collusion and the Steele Dossier which was Russian/British Collusion by the Democrats was fake unverified russian disinformation.

    But you two believe what you want. The courts have moved on.

  129. No we don’t

    You’ve just admitted it above. Too late to backtrack now.

    Even if “collusion” meant anything to collude there must be an exchange or cooperation of some kind

    No there doesn’t. The very meeting between the Russian agents and Trump administration was an act of collusion, regardless of the meeting’s outcome.

  130. Patrick – you wrote all the Russians indicted had their day in court (false) and that all the charges against them were dismissed for lack of evidence (false). You just make stuff up, You know it. Everyone here knows it.

  131. “Words have meaning…… you mean like the words that appear on a FISA Court Evidence admission form that states the EVIDENCE is factual and VERIFIED….. and signed UNDER OATH that is factual and verified?”

    The FISA application was verified. You can keep repeating lies until you are blue in the face. But they are still lies. The Steele dossier was not independently verified, which was described in the Horowitz report as “not unusual in the FISA context”. Verification does not mean that every pieced of intelligence provided by a source has been independently corroborated. Verification refers to the process laid out in Woods procedures which require Justice Department officials to verify that representations made in a submission to the Court match the information in the FBI’s investigative files. If the FBI could independently verify the intelligence, rather than the procedures, then they wouldn’t need a warrant. They would move straight to arrest. If everything was done to the standard that you moronically think it should be then there would never be another warrant issued ever. You are suggesting that in order to get a search warrant that you have to prove the suspect is guilty. If they could do that why would they get a search warrant?

    The FISA application by the FBI said they received this intelligence from Steele. They then confirmed that Steele had history with the FBI, and that his findings had been shown to be trustworthy. It is those facts that were then independently verified.

    You are simply lying. Again you have no argument. No facts. Just lies and conspiracy theories.

  132. Are these not typical Trumper responses to any and all accusations?
    1. Deny
    2. Deny more
    3 Keep denying
    4. When forced to admit the truth, say, “Yeah, okay. But so what?”
    5. Start denying again.
    6. Repeat steps 1 – 5

  133. Nº 4 struck me immediately above Seimi.

  134. Mueller speaks out

    “The Russia investigation was of paramount importance. Stone was prosecuted and convicted because he committed federal crimes. He remains a convicted felon, and rightly so,” he wrote.

    He said that finding evidence of Russian interference was a complex task that took “two years and substantial effort” and resulted in a number of charges and prosecutions. Stone’s obstruction may have impeded efforts to find the truth and hold wrongdoers accountable, he added.

    “We made every decision in Stone’s case, as in all our cases, based solely on the facts and the law and in accordance with the rule of law,” he concluded. “The women and men who conducted these investigations and prosecutions acted with the highest integrity. Claims to the contrary are false.”

    Mr Mueller rarely makes public statements about the investigation, and the article is the first since he gave testimony in Congress in July 2019.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53379593

  135. Seimi
    you missed one

    7 Blame Obama

  136. And no 8 the big catch all daddy excuse

    FAKE NEWS !

  137. PVR

    “The Trump campaign received nothing, gave, nothing, and no cooperation of anykind ever took place.” Stone’s information says the opposite. That is why Trump had to commute his prison sentence. Stone keeps silent on the specifics of the Russian collusion and Trump frees him from prison. Or, maybe you think Trump did it because he is 80 years old!

    This is far from over. Never before has a US president commuted a sentence to save his own skin.

    BTW, how was the rally in New Hampshire last night? Hope you did not get too wet in the tropical storm in New England.

  138. EP & Colm

    D’oh!