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WHOEVER COULD THEY MEAN?

By Pete Moore On July 31st, 2020

One word, two syllables, begins with a “w”? Imagine spending thousands of bucks on a degree, and you end up writing this for a living. You’re cancelling women. Just say women. Lefty loons – they’re called women.

Individuals with a cervix are now recommended to start cervical cancers screening at 25 and continue through age 65, with HPV testing every five years as the preferred method of testing, according to a new guideline released by the American Cancer Society

152 Responses to “WHOEVER COULD THEY MEAN?”

  1. Yes indeed. The word “woman” seems to be hate-filled (almost as bad as nigger) and “triggering” for the Trans Taliban. So they have banned it and their fellow-travellers are scrambling to get aboard the Trans Taliban Express. Including Network Rail, who have removed an advert from one of their stations because it supports the hate-filled JK Rowling:

    “I ❤ JK Rowling. There, now I’m a hate-monger, too. A digital advert reading just that — ‘I ❤ JK Rowling’ — has been removed from Edinburgh Waverley station, the city’s main rail terminus. The ad was taken out by Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, a women’s rights campaigner better known as Posie Parker, who paid for a billboard in Liverpool during the 2018 Labour Party conference which read ‘woman: adult human female’. That was removed, too. Her latest display doesn’t quote anything as wildly controversial as the Oxford English Dictionary. It simply expresses affection for the Harry Potter author. So why has it been removed?

    A Network Rail source has told the Times the ad was deemed ‘likely to cause offence’ because of Rowling’s belief that women are a sex class with legal rights rather than a gender identity that can be opted into. The left-wing author — you know, proper left-wing: wants to change more than just pronouns — has been routinely assailed for stating a view that until recently was almost universally accepted, and in the process has been hung out to dry by middling actors who would be teaching drama at their local comp right now if it weren’t for her…”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/network-rail-s-cowardly-decision-to-remove-a-jk-rowling-poster

  2. Does Network Rail allow political advertising?

    “The word “woman” seems to be hate-filled”

    The word woman is not hate-filled. The exclusion of trans women from the term women is. Not complicated.

  3. Yes, if you read the linked article you will see that they allow LGBT propaganda in all their stations. Or maybe you think that’s not political?

  4. “Yes, if you read the linked article you will see that they allow LGBT propaganda in all their stations. Or maybe you think that’s not political?”

    I seem to remember Network Rail banning political advertising in the past. If you have examples of LGBT “propaganda” then please show it and I can judge from that as to whether or not it is political.

  5. Also the Pride banners linked to in the news story are not advertising. They are Network Rail’s own banners.

  6. Seamus,

    “The word woman is not hate-filled. The exclusion of trans women from the term women is. Not complicated.”

    Not complicated and not true. I don’t agree with all of it but what has JKR said that is “hate filled”? These people don’t give any appearance at all of being “hate filled”. Regardless where you stand on the issue, all these old school feminists and lesbians have probably not become raving bigots overnight.

    People who claim otherwise are not only claiming access to a level of mind reading that is laughable, they are also flying in the face of a fair bit of evidence to the contrary.

  7. “I don’t agree with all of it but what has JKR said that is “hate filled”?”

    You don’t think referring to trans-women as “men in dresses” isn’t prejudiced and hate-filled?

  8. seamus i’m uncomfortable, not with trans people themselves ofc not
    but with the riding on the coat-tails of feminism
    woman have fought damned hard for their voting rights, their equality ( still far behind )
    and just cos some confuded hairy legged male with a dick and a set of swingers decides he’s a woman, why should woman have to accommodate him
    “welcome home sister , come and have a pee in our cloakroom”
    why should they ? and if they don’t are they bigots ?
    I just don’t like it .

    trangender toilets , along side mens and womens cloakrooms only solution
    and the transgender toilet is to be used by either male to female or female to male
    lets these freaks piss in their own cubicle , leave us , ( us meaning man and women the fuck alone )
    ahh , better out than in
    am i a bigot seamus ?

  9. “Regardless where you stand on the issue, all these old school feminists and lesbians have probably not become raving bigots overnight.”

    No the probably haven’t. However, similar to anti-racists who opposed all racism except their own anti-semitism for example, a person can be generally opposed to bigotry while at the same time espousing bigotry against an individual group of people.

  10. “and just cos some confuded hairy legged male with a dick and a set of swingers decides he’s a woman, why should woman have to accommodate him”

    Anyone who actually thinks that trans women just decide they are a woman is not only a bigot but a fool.

  11. “lets these freaks piss in their own cubicle”

    “am i a bigot seamus ?”

    Yes. You quite clearly are.

  12. right seamus how many trans do you know ?
    well , quite well, would you say friends, gone out on the piss with

    I don’t know any like that
    2 experiences
    I have met two people , the most fucked up people ever
    1) a girl born who every 6 months went the other way Becky to Ben, Ben to Becky lives on max DLA spends his/her time obsessing about herself, never does a days work, life is a mess, drink drugs sleeping around , full of STD’s , has painful vaginal itch
    2) this guy was at our church, would come in sunday ( make up on dressed like a whore )
    s/he would not stop seeking attention causing havoc with the leaders, a real pain in the ass, its was all ME, ME ,ME – the most self centred selfish cunt I’ve ever met

    Now you were saying , lets hear it
    and don’t fucking have a go at me , like i’m dumb ok

  13. ahh you didn’t answer the point of substance which is
    why should woman have to accommodate him ?
    why the fuck should they have that burden ?
    Just that , specific please, nothing else

  14. “right seamus how many trans do you know ?
    well , quite well, would you say friends, gone out on the piss with”

    Two.

    “why should woman have to accommodate him ?”

    Firstly trans-women are women. The idea that other women have to accommodate trans-women would be like asking why should white women have to accommodate black women.

    Secondly, it isn’t an accommodation. Simply put outside of extreme situations, such as potentially domestic abuse refuges (where the site of someone who has the outward appearance of a man could be traumatic), there is no situation where a trans-woman using women’s spaces causes harm.

  15. There is a genuine issue with aspects of the transidentity movement which it is not bigoted to question. The idea that gender is a mind construct and that someone with an entirely male body and no desire to change it can identify as female and must be respected and treated as such according to the Trans identity activists. There are legitimate reason why in certain circumstances this will be controversial and uncomfortable for women and shouldn’t be dismissed as bigotry.

    However, referring to any person as a freak because of their gender status is bigotry and I don’t know why you felt the need to say that kurt especially as in your opening sentence on that comment you said you had no discomfort towrads trans people.

  16. Seamus

    I would ignore kurt tonight. he is clearly not in a right frame of mind to have respectful debate with.

  17. Firstly trans-women are women.

    If that’s your firstly then you’ll always be wrong. Sex is a biological fact, not a preference.

  18. “If that’s your firstly then you’ll always be wrong. Sex is a biological fact, not a preference.”

    Yes. Trans-women are male. They are still women. Sex is a biological fact. Gender not so much.

  19. Also the Pride banners linked to in the news story are not advertising. They are Network Rail’s own banners.

    LOL

    It’s still advertising. The clue is in the words “Pride banners”.

  20. “It’s still advertising. The clue is in the words “Pride banners”.”

    Except it isn’t. Because they are Network Rail’s banners.

  21. a person can be generally opposed to bigotry while at the same time espousing bigotry against an individual group of people.

    Yes indeed. As your anti-feminist Trans Taliban bigotry handily demonstrates.

  22. “Yes indeed. As your anti-feminist Trans Taliban bigotry handily demonstrates.”

    Expanding women’s rights to all women is not anti-feminist.

  23. Because they are Network Rail’s banners.

    Duh

    Network Rail is endorsing LGBT but censoring JK Rowling. Most (but obviously not Trans Taliban like you) would say that’s a blatant double-standard.

  24. Seamus

    Do you think a fully biological male who has no desire to change his body or even dress as a woman but says they identify as a woman is a woman ?

  25. “Network Rail is endorsing LGBT but censoring JK Rowling. Most (but obviously not Trans Taliban like you) would say that’s a blatant double-standard.”

    Can you engage in a debate without throwing out childish insults? Or do I have to call you a cunt again?

    Network Rail are endorsing LGBT rights. They also aren’t censoring JK Rowling. They are censoring Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, who put the poster up. Network Rail, when the sell advertising, have a ban on political advertising. So that censoring is perfectly in line with their stated policies.

  26. Expanding women’s rights to all women is not anti-feminist

    Weasel words. Humans with penises and testicles are not women. Just as humans with vaginas are not men.

    It’s not difficult until you start disappearing up your own arse with “how many angels can dance on a pinhead” arguments. Pursued with dogmatic intransigence as usual.

  27. Can you engage in a debate without throwing out childish insults? Or do I have to call you a cunt again?

    Really?

  28. “Do you think a fully biological male who has no desire to change his body or even dress as a woman but says they identify as a woman is a woman ?”

    I have no idea. Most likely no. All of these things should depend on the individual circumstances.

    But then I’ve never met a person who is like that, and I would wager never have most people.

  29. Peter

    I disagree with their stance on the JK Rowling poster but it isn’t a double standard. The JK Rowling was clearly specifically paid for to support her in the midst of the political controversy she is involved in. The Pride banners are not part of a political battle, just a recognition of part of the community and some of Network Rail’s workforce.

  30. “Weasel words.”

    They aren’t weasel words just because you disagree with them. You may feel that trans-women are not women. You are entitled to that view. I am entitled to believe you to be a bigot for that view.

    What is your definition of a woman?

    “Really?”

    Yes. See you throw out childish insults. I throw out insults that are not so childish. The key is to maybe not throw insults out in the first instance.

  31. I would ignore kurt tonight. he is clearly not in a right frame of mind to have respectful debate with.

    you know me too well 😉

    seriously though women are more uncomfortable then men, as JK Rowling gives voice to
    Its easy for a man to dictate, like seamus how women should feel and what should they accept
    after all irish men have been telling women what to do/think/feel for centuries, so no change there then

  32. But Seamus, regardless of how many people identify in that way, that remains the stance of the Transidentity movement and they are intolerant of anyone who disagrees with their theory. Your gender is whatever you choose it to be however you physically manifest yourself and nobody must question it. A fully male person must be allowed to use female only changing and toilet facilities in public if they identify as a woman. JK Rowling’s concerns about this are not bigotry and she is not a transphobe.

  33. What is your definition of a woman?

    A human being with a vagina capable of giving birth. See, it’s not difficult.

  34. See you throw out childish insults. I throw out insults that are not so childish. The key is to maybe not throw insults out in the first instance.

    LOL

    I hope that’s not a childish insult. Because it’s meant to be an adult one.

  35. PS – I do think Transwomen are women but I don’t think its unreasonable to have wider discussions about what a Transperson’s gender identity can be.

  36. “You don’t think referring to trans-women as “men in dresses” isn’t prejudiced and hate-filled?”

    I don’t think that’s anything JKR said, despite the quotation marks. It’s not even a full sentence. Also the “referring to trans-women” is perhaps you jumping to conclusions. (Some might take it to be evidence of your own bigotry, prejudice and being full of hate, since the bar is seemingly very low!)

    “Anyone who actually thinks that trans women just decide they are a woman is not only a bigot but a fool.”

    I don’t think they do but do you think it’s possible that some men could just lie about being trans if it suited them? Particularly if all they had to do was say so and anyone who was sceptical was deemed a bigot. I believe men have been known to lie in the past.

  37. women will be nice, sweet, accepting compassionate when a man feel like he’s a women
    but i tell you for a fact when they’re getting made-up, going out of the piss, on the pull
    they don’t want him/her around . Its kills the party, and that is fact
    they really want the trans to just fuck off someplace else .. anyone get that
    I do know cos my sister is same age as me almost and told me ! and she ain’t no bigot
    seamus you’re talking outa yer big hairy ass man ..lol 😉
    you don’t know how it is at all dude !!!

  38. “A human being with a vagina capable of giving birth. See, it’s not difficult.”

    So women who undergoe a hysterectomy are no longer women? Women who have gone through menopause are no longer women? Women who are infertile are not women? Because none of them have a vagina capable of giving birth.

    “JK Rowling’s concerns about this are not bigotry and she is not a transphobe.”

    Except her concerns are unfounded. And her opposition are either based on stupidity (by believing unfounded concerns) or based on opposition to trans people. So yes she may be a bigot. She may just be thick.

  39. There was a case recently of a man who identified as a women and was permitted to serve his sentence in a womens’ prison. They had to move him shortly afterwards as he had sexually assaulted and I believe even raped female inmates in that prison.

  40. A fully male person must be allowed to use female only changing and toilet facilities in public if they identify as a woman. JK Rowling’s concerns about this are not bigotry and she is not a transphobe.

    Yes Colm, but Seamus and his Trans Taliban fellow-travellers like the CNN Trans sock-puppet at the start of this post would have her cancelled 100% if they could. Because anyone who does not endorse the Trans religion 100% is a Transphobe hate-filled bigot. This is the Spanish Inquisition 400 years later.

  41. Seamus

    You lose your argument with ridiculous claims that JK Rowling is bigoted or thick. You are usually very well informed but on this topic you are not and your emotions are getting the better of your intellect.

  42. So women who undergoe a hysterectomy are no longer women? Women who have gone through menopause are no longer women? Women who are infertile are not women? Because none of them have a vagina capable of giving birth.

    LOL. You missed the Spanish Inquisition pal. You shoulda been born in Madrid about 1580.

  43. So yes she may be a bigot. She may just be thick.

    LOL

    That describes the Trans Taliban to a tee. Self-recognition is the start pal.

  44. Peter

    I am somewhat on your side on this, but not with your definition of a woman. Genuine Transwomen who were born male and never comfortable with it who have undergone the surgery and huge effort they need to male their physical body match their genuine female identity are women and should be recognised as such even though they dont have natural vaginas and cannot give birth. The political ‘gender is a construct’ movement I don’t agree with.

  45. I almost burst out laughing with that JK Rowling comment.

    That should be saved in a Hall of Fame of bloggerisms. Bravo!

  46. they need to make their physical body match their genuine female identity..

  47. “I don’t think that’s anything JKR said, despite the quotation marks.”

    You are correct she didn’t say it. However she ‘liked’ a tweet from an anti-trans activist that used the phrase. One of the perils of social media I’m sure but still indicative in my opinion.

    “I don’t think they do but do you think it’s possible that some men could just lie about being trans if it suited them?”

    I think it is possible but truthfully I’ve not seen any evidence to suggest it is an issue. Self-declaration has been passed in many different countries, including Denmark, Belgium, Norway, etc… It was passed in the south a few years ago. Despite these things passing in those countries several years ago there has been no reports of a rise in attacks on women in women-only spaces.

    Not least because men who want to attack women don’t really need to go to such extraordinary lengths to do so.

    In fact there is some evidence to suggest that when places go in the other direction it increases harrasment not just of trans-women but other women as well. If a woman is not a stereotypical woman, if she is butch, if she is more masculine, then there is evidence from the likes of North Carolina of an increase in harrassment of those people.

  48. There was a case recently of a man who identified as a women and was permitted to serve his sentence in a womens’ prison. They had to move him shortly afterwards as he had sexually assaulted and I believe even raped female inmates in that prison.

    which totally destroys seamus claim that apart from some other trauma, trans people are not a threat to other woman. trans are the most insecure people on the planet , and are a danger .
    If we castrated them , guaranteed tomorrow you have 99% less . Its a mind game its about power and control. They want the power and the control and are swinging the lead so to speak

  49. Phantom

    What JK Rowling comment ? If you mean the ‘men in dresses’ one. She didn’t say that.

  50. “You lose your argument with ridiculous claims that JK Rowling is bigoted or thick. You are usually very well informed but on this topic you are not and your emotions are getting the better of your intellect.”

    I’m not emotional. I’m calling a spade a spade.

    JK Rowling is either basing her comments on fallacies or a general dislike of trans people. Hence stupidity or bigotry. And she’s a smart woman. So I think we all know which of the two it is.

    “LOL. You missed the Spanish Inquisition pal. You shoulda been born in Madrid about 1580.”

    You excluded any woman who cannot give birth from being a woman. So are those people women or is your definition wrong?

  51. Seamus speculating that she may be a bigot, or even more silly, that she may be thick. ( which is passive-aggressive speak for ” she is a thick bigot and I am so not those things, la dee dah ”

    I think that you get an award for saying such things.

    Even if she was a bigot, which she is not, she is very intelligent, and all would know that.

  52. draq queens, now you’re safe with them, they know exactly who they are .
    they’re magic, dressed up to the nines, party people, best of, met a few
    but they know come sunday morning, yep it a todger between their legs and some bollocks
    and they just get on with it , no fuss no bother, no drama , they have a good fun night out
    period !

  53. “There was a case recently of a man who identified as a women and was permitted to serve his sentence in a womens’ prison. They had to move him shortly afterwards as he had sexually assaulted and I believe even raped female inmates in that prison.”

    And? Karen White was undergoing gender reassignment treatment. So it was not a bloke pretending to be a woman to get access to victims. This was a woman who raped other women. It has also been shown that mistakes were made in that particular case, and that the case was not followed up with the rigour that it should have been.

  54. Genuine Transwomen who were born male and never comfortable with it who have undergone the surgery and huge effort they need to male their physical body match their genuine female identity are women and should be recognised as such even though they dont have natural vaginas and cannot give birth. The political ‘gender is a construct’ movement I don’t agree with.

    Yes Colm

    If someone gets the surgery done that’s different. Its the self-identification that I cannot accept. It leads to women’s spaces being invaded by biological men who “self-identify” as women. As such it is totally anti-feminist, but of course the Trans Taliban is totally anti-feminist. That’s why they unleash hate-filled onslaughts against true feminists like JK Rowling. In their eyes she is either “thick or a bigot” as Trans Taliban Seamus posted above.

  55. kurt

    Yeesh

  56. This was a woman who raped other women.

    You mean a woman with a penis who raped other women with that penis. Have you any idea how deluded you are? You must be either totally thick or a total bigot. Which is it?

  57. “If someone gets the surgery done that’s different. Its the self-identification that I cannot accept. It leads to women’s spaces being invaded by biological men who “self-identify” as women. As such it is totally anti-feminist, but of course the Trans Taliban is totally anti-feminist. That’s why they unleash hate-filled onslaughts against true feminists like JK Rowling. In their eyes she is either “thick or a bigot” as Trans Taliban Seamus posted above.”

    Surgery takes time. Years even. First you have to be refered. Then you have to be on hormone treatment for several years. Then you have to go on an NHS waiting list unless you can afford to go private. All of this takes a long, long time.

    So the idea that people going through that process have to be dehumanised, abused and degraded just to appease bigoted cunts like Peter is horrific.

  58. seamus hates women he’s a bigot, thinks he has the right as a man to tell woman where and when they can feel safe and who with . what a load of crap ! busted ..

  59. “You mean a woman with a penis who raped other women with that penis. Have you any idea how deluded you are?”

    You are the one who thinks that women who have had hysterectomies, who have gone through menapause or are otherwise infertile aren’t women. So how deluded are you?

  60. Kurt

    The final word of your 10:45pm comment is rather apt really in the context of the discussion 😉

  61. So the idea that people going through that process have to be dehumanised, abused and degraded just to appease bigoted cunts like Peter is horrific.

    You are the gift that keeps giving. You besmirch every cause you claim to support with your boorish name calling.

  62. You are the one who thinks that women who have had hysterectomies, who have gone through menapause or are otherwise infertile aren’t women. So how deluded are you?

    No, I never thought that my mother ceased to be a woman.

  63. Seamus is letting himself down tonight. So different to the excellent and informed manner with which he Debates party or electoral politics.

  64. So the idea that people going through that process have to be dehumanised, abused and degraded just to appease bigoted cunts like Peter is horrific.

    poor me , pour me a drink
    this is invented, no-one has said anything like they should be mis-treated, and they should not be mistreated or discriminated against . BUT to protect everybody until they’re fully the other side, they must use their own toilets during transition.
    That will stop all the bother very quickly ..

  65. Every time Peter throws out an insult I throw one back. I’m personally feed up with his petty behaviour. So every time he throws out “Trans Taliban” type bollocks or “neo-liberal” type bollocks he gets called a cunt.

    “No, I never thought that my mother ceased to be a woman.”

    But she couldn’t give birth. Which by your definition means she isn’t a woman.

  66. Not sure where the rage comes from. And boy is there a lot of it. Keeping talking, Seamus.

    Peter is one of the more thoughtful people here on any issue that he cares to speak on.

  67. fair does colm , goodness sake I’m old enough to know a bit about sexuality
    and am very broad-minded, trans-gender is an illness of the mind, its a treatable medical psychosis. Ofc you try telling seamus that he cannot accept it , will start creaming at you and calling you a c*nt

  68. “Peter is one of the more thoughtful people here on any issue that he cares to speak on.”

    Until he starts throwing out insults. Which is most of the time he is challenged on anything he says. He can’t actually debate. Any time I have an argument with him he argues for a post or two and then descends into childish, petty insults when he runs out of arguments.

  69. So every time he throws out “Trans Taliban” type bollocks or “neo-liberal” type bollocks he gets called a cunt.

    I won’t descend into the gutter with you pal. You’re on your own there, as I think we can all see.

    But she couldn’t give birth. Which by your definition means she isn’t a woman.

    No, you are reverting to your Spanish Inquisition tendency and twisting my words to get a conviction in your small little mind. How pathetic and childish you are.

  70. “I won’t descend into the gutter with you pal. You’re on your own there, as I think we can all see.”

    You start all this. I just call you out on it.

    “No, you are reverting to your Spanish Inquisition tendency and twisting my words to get a conviction in your small little mind. How pathetic and childish you are.”

    So if your definition was imprecise do you want to take another swing at it? Because you clearly said a woman was a “human being with a vagina capable of giving birth”. So if someone is unable to give birth they are not a woman by that definition. Now even you have started to accept that defintion is wrong. So would like to amend it?

  71. Seamus

    I’d lay off words like that. It makes one sound uneducated, it is unfair to someone like you, the speaker, who is educated, and who is smart.

    Or use it once every couple of years, where its rarity will make for very great effect.

  72. “Or use it once every couple of years, where its rarity will make for very great effect.”

    I use it in three situations. Racists, people who insult me first, and New Yorker (just can’t stand the guy).

  73. Any time I have an argument with him he argues for a post or two and then descends into childish, petty insults when he runs out of arguments.

    LOL

    You just have to have the last word every time. Your tactic is simply to keep posting increasingly abusive nonsense until normal people give up. So don’t take the fact that I don’t continue the rallies to the 150th comment as evidence of surrender. It’s just exhaustion and a desire to move on.

    I could just about put up with your dogmatism but your foul language name-calling is totally out of order. And you inevitably revert to it when you are continually challenged. You should cut that crap out if you want to be taken seriously here. Or don’t, whatever.

  74. “You just have to have the last word every time.”

    You keep saying that. Am I supposed to stop commenting because you disagree with me. If you want the last word then have the last word. You just need to be able to back up your arguments. If you say something I can’t argue with I will hold my hand up and admit it. You just have never been able to.

    “I could just about put up with your dogmatism but your foul language name-calling is totally out of order.”

    If you don’t insult me then I won’t insult you. Deal?

  75. There exists significant difference between the mean score of pre-operative and post-operative transsexual individuals’ mental health and happiness

    That’s interesting that study
    It means get it done if you have to , surround yourself with understanding friends
    but for the rest of us pls use your the toilet of your current gender until you’ve transitioned
    A man who is trans-gendering to a woman should not have a problem continuing to use a urinal
    after all , his sexual body part is suitable for a urinal not a sit-down loo .. correct ?
    you get to be with the girls when you are a girl, not a half-way something or other
    fair’s fair

  76. Am I supposed to stop commenting because you disagree with me

    No, but don’t claim victory just because you happened to post the last comment in a ding-dong.

    If you don’t insult me then I won’t insult you.

    You are the one using foul language. You should cut that out, it’s very childish.

  77. I use it in three situations. Racists, people who insult me first, and New Yorker (just can’t stand the guy).

    Not true,
    I shined the light of the gospel into your confused little world of moral relativism
    and you responded with the c-word
    I was not racist, not insulting you ,and am not NewYorker
    sometimes you just show that you are in fact only a 19 yr old on a site with older people
    BUT YOU THINK YOU KNOW IT ALL KIDDO and you fucking don’t

  78. “No, but don’t claim victory just because you happened to post the last comment in a ding-dong.”

    I’d have to check but I don’t think I’ve ever claimed victory here.

    “You are the one using foul language. You should cut that out, it’s very childish.”

    So is that a “No. You won’t stop insulting me”? I make a sincere offer. If you don’t insult me then I won’t insult you. Is that acceptable? Or are you trying to suggest it is acceptable for you to insult me in your chosen manner but not acceptable for me to insult you in my chosen manner?

    “I shined the light of the gospel into your confused little world of moral relativism
    and you responded with the c-word”

    Where?

  79. Is that the you being a sanctimonious cunt bit? You were being condensending, sanctimonious and insulting.

  80. I agree with much of what kurt says here.
    People can call themselves whatever gender they like, and I’ll even play along with them out of courtesy, eg using their ‘pronouns’, so long as their rights aren’t impinging on mine in a personal way.

  81. Seamus keeps digging, spraying ad-hominems like machine gun bullets.

    It’s fun to watch.

  82. “Seamus keeps digging, spraying ad-hominems like machine gun bullets.”

    If you don’t insult me then I won’t insult you. Is that acceptable? Simple yes or no.

  83. Yes brex, but if you happen to be a woman (no apology for using that hate word) in jail, would you be comfortable sharing your cell with a “self-identified” woman with testicles? Because Seamus says if you wouldn’t be then you are a hate-filled Transphobe like JK Rowling.

    Just wondering.

  84. that was the plank in your own eye seamus, that caused you to react the way you did
    you didn’t like what what being said and made that false accusation, it was your best effort to silence and shut the convo down ; which ofc it did as it was rude uncalled for and was the pettiness that plays so rough . it was the cry of a banshee/demon meeting the light of day 🙂

    https://missionsbox.org/essays/scandal-of-the-gospel/

    It is difficult to understand how something that tastes sweeter than honey to one person can taste bitter to another or how that which is a sweet perfume for many can smell putrid to many others. Yet, if we are to understand the Gospel and it effects, we must come to grips with the reality that the scandal of the Gospel is not about taste buds and olfactory senses but, rather, about the response of individual souls when their own self-righteousness is confronted by Christ’s.

  85. “you didn’t like what what being said and made that false accusation, it was your best effort to silence and shut the convo down”

    Nope. Was calling it as it was. Your insult was an attempt to shut down conversation. You had no interest in trying to debate the points I had raised and instead trying to dismiss them simply by saying I couldn’t understand the issue because it was “too much of a paradigm shift for” me.

  86. Peter, no I wouldn’t, and that’s what I meant by “infringe a personal way” (although I was thinking more along the lines of being put in a “Crying Game” situation, or something like that).

  87. Seamus

    Insults are fine but foul language name-calling is not. I suggest you spend an hour or so reviewing the comments here over the past week or so and you will see how we debate. Quite often there are heated comments but a degree of civility is mostly maintained. That civility excludes the word cunt.

    I’ve pointed this out to you before.

  88. Cheers brex

    We are on the same page, for once 🙂

  89. “Insults are fine but foul language name-calling is not.”

    Why?

    “Quite often there are heated comments but a degree of civility is mostly maintained. That civility excludes the word cunt.”

    Insulting people, even without choice language is not civil. So if you are going to insult me I will insult you back. Grow the fuck up.

  90. Insulting people, even without choice language is not civil.

    Are you looking for a “safe space” by any chance? If so, you won’t find it here.

  91. “Are you looking for a “safe space” by any chance? If so, you won’t find it here.”

    I’m not looking for one. I have no problem with continuing to insult you should you continue to insult me. You are the one with the problem with the situation. I offered a solution. You don’t want it. So if you insult me I will insult you back, in whatever manner I see fit.

  92. I have no problem with continuing to insult you should you continue to insult me.

    So you see debate in terms of an exchange of insults? If so, you are the big winner hereabouts. Well done.

  93. II wasn’t going to comment on this post, but Seamus has ploughed a lonely furrow here, and the west Belfast in me kicked in!
    Peter, I always find your comments to be well thought out and measured. I don’t always agree with them, but they’re well written, and it’s clear that you honestly believe in what you write. Your comments, especially on climate change, are only rivaled here by Dave Alton’s, in their scientific base and clearness of thought.

    Seamus, your lengthy, informative political posts are a joy to read, on a blog which usually flounders in a sea of political ignorance. Your knowledge of the political systems in the UK and the USA is encyclopedic, and I know I have learned a lot from reading your researched comments. Again, I don’t always agree with everything you write, but it would be foolish to deny the detail in your work.
    It’s a pity you seem to clash with each other so much, and I’m sometimes guilty of putting that down to your age difference. By guilty, I mean that I have made the assumption that you, Peter, are of early retirement age, ie mid-to-late 60s, and that you, Seamus are in your early 20s? If I’ve got either of your age ranges wrong, I apologise. I’m basing it on things I’ve picked up over the years.

    I wasn’t going to say anything about the use of the word cunt, but then I thought – it’s Friday night, so why not? I use it myself, probably a lot more than I should, but usually as a term of ‘manly’ endearment. For example, I know Paul McMahon is a cunt, and I love him dearly for it. But I would never use the same term for herself, as she would kill me. I think its usage is a skill: used properly, it will either nail an opponent to the wall, metaphorically of course, instantly demolishing their argument/political beliefs/confidence. Used too often however, as in in every sentence, and it loses all power, and is relegated to the lowly levels of ‘bloody’ and ‘flippin’. As Obi Wan Kenobi said, “Use the ‘C’ word, Luke.”

    I find myself quite torn on the whole transgender issue, but ultimately, I believe in a person’s right to be whatever they choose to be. And before any pedants jump on me for that statement, that does not mean that I automatically accept that any man who says he is a woman IS a woman. That’s nonsense. But there are people in our society who have never been comfortable or happy in their own skins, who have always felt that they are different to what their physical bodies – and society – say they are.
    Kurt said they have a mental illness, a ‘treatable medical psychosis.’ Quite a cold, dismissive turn of phrase from someone who apparently works in the field of caring for people. But if he we take his phrase, the key word isn’t ‘psychosis’, or even ‘medical’. It’s ‘treatable’, and if it is treatable, then perhaps the ‘treatment’ – the ‘cure’ – is to help these people achieve what it is they so desire: changing their bodies to become the person they believe themselves to be. And, give them the support they so desperately need in order to do that, rather than labeling them as ‘men in dresses.’ Let’s not forget that, within living memory (for some, obviously not me 😉 ), homosexuality wasn’t just a sin – it was a crime round these parts. Today? It’s accepted by most. Not all, but it’s achieving normalcy. And that is a good, good thing. Why? Because more human beings on this planet feel less ostracised, less demonised, less victimised. Less alone.
    People are getting angry about who uses what toilet, when – again, in living memory for some – swimming pools, drinking fountains, bus seats and basic rights were divvied up according to skin colour. The toilet issue is a piss-poor argument, used by people who aren’t seeing the bigger picture. Focusing on who uses what toilet, takes away from the central issue of a person’s rights. Rather than start a fight, where both sides ‘know’ they’re right, why not start a dialogue, where both sides know they have a chance to fix things?
    Yes, there may be individuals who will try to abuse this. Guess what? That happens everywhere, and it’s usually straight men who do it, not homosexuals or Transgender people.
    Honestly? If someone is doing something, or wants to be something, or says something, or whatever – as long as that thing doesn’t cause physical, mental or emotional harm to another person – what’s the problem?
    If the problem with it is that you just don’t like it, then you may well be the problem yourself.

  94. Seamus

    “I use it in three situations. Racists, people who insult me first, and New Yorker (just can’t stand the guy).” Thanks for the mention. I have to keep my eye on you all the time.

    What is behind the strident advocacy of transgenderism? Are you a cross dresser as well as a fact checker?

  95. Can you get two more contrasting comments in a row ? Seimi’s long but thoughtful and considerate contribution and New Yorker’s childish stupid and false quip.

  96. seimi
    great comment
    yeah i looked it up
    i was wrong its not described as a mental illness, but obv though that are can and do experience trauma
    NHS calls its Gender dysphoria

    “Dysphoria” is a feeling of dissatisfaction, anxiety, and restlessness. With gender dysphoria, the discomfort with your male or female body can be so intense that it can interfere with your normal life, for instance at school or work or during social activities.

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/
    there’s an informative video at the bottom in that link .
    Its good to hear positive stories like that, reinforces that many do find happiness after a full transition.

    I was at pains to say no-one should be mistreated for whatever their situation is .
    The only person I think its ok to thrown bananas at is Jim Jordan 😉

  97. Mornng kurt.

    OK I looked up Jim Jordan. What a fine upstanding decent political leader. Why would anyone want to throw bananas at this noble gentleman ? 🙂

  98. lol colm ofc he’s a whacko’s whacko – see him here with Fauci, swinging and missing
    https://twitter.com/i/events/1289235020620500992

    He’s strong evidence for evolution though
    possibly genetically 50% + cro-magnum or Neanderthal with homo sapien added on 😉

    to be fait , pat with receding forehead would def be a case for 80% Neanderthal ..lol

  99. Kurt

    lets these freaks piss in their own cubicle

    That one sentence tells you everything you need to know about Kurt opinion of transgender people.

  100. DaveA u should have read my 8:38 Dave you old curmudgeon 😉

  101. nothing is fixed unless it repeated, that’s what a debate is for to learn , emote and share ideas. Its not as tight as a snare drum here DaveA, observe colms gentle humour as a guide to how to be .. i could suggest a certain fruit for you to shove up yer wotsit, but I’m not in a rude mood this morning, unless you cherry picking
    how bout just say what you want to say about the issue and don’t think its good enough just to point fingers at others comment .
    what do you think about the subject DaveA — this is how it works here on ATW fella

  102. kurt

    That is exactly what Dave is doing. Reading your comments and responding to them. That is what debate is. When you call Trans people freaks and say they are mentally disturbed and tell them to “piss in their own cubicles” you will get negative responses calling you out on it. No need to be a snowflake about it !

  103. he needs to get on the field and say what he thinks of the issues
    easy to cherry pick , scores nil point, unimpressive and whiney are the finger pointers
    can do better .. its an interesting subject , worthy of a better input
    he hasn’t contributed to the subject matter has he ?

  104. Go raibh mile maith agat a Shéimi.

    In terms of the issue with Peter I find that when we debate most issues (not all issues – we agree on a majority, certainly on as you pointed out his comments on climate change) he devolves into insults. I felt Peter and I were broadly able to discuss the Brexit issue without problems. However on issues of economics, immigration, Greece bizarrely, a debate generally becomes an insult very quickly when he runs out of things to say (or if he is believed above simply wants to drop the issue and stop talking about it).

    I’m a little older than you think. I’m 32. Though I did start on ATW when I was 18 or 19.

    In terms of the wider issue, for me there is probably no zealot like a convert. Despite New Yorker’s comment I am neither trans not a cross dresser. It is also at this time worth pointing out that the two are distinct. To repeat the phrase from earlier ‘Men in dresses’ would actually be a cross-dresser, not a trans-woman.

    I used to be firmly in the “Y chromosone = man, no Y chromosone = woman” camp. It was simple, it was elegant. That it was contrary to the lived experiences of people I hadn’t met was irrelevant because I didn’t know them. I could be comforted in those beliefs without ever seeing the human cost of beliefs like that.

    And then I met them. I became close personal friends with two different trans people (a trans-man and a trans-woman). My beliefs were simple, and comforting. But only reasonable if I ignored these two human beings, and their lived experiences. Or pretended to myself that my two close friends were mentally ill. Or pretended that it was a phase. Or pretended a dozen other things to simply ignore them. And I couldn’t do that. So I reassessed my beliefs. If your belief is proved wrong then change the belief. And I am of the opinion that the lived experiences of these two human beings proved my prior beliefs wrong.

    In terms of trans-women in women only spaces as I said above there are only a few situations where that is going to be of harm. Despite self-certification passing in several countries over the last few years there has been no reports of a rise in attacks on women in women-only spaces. There have been no reports of swarms of men pretending to be women to gain access to potential victims. Not least because men who want to attack women don’t really need to go to such extraordinary lengths to do so. The Victims’ Commissioner for England and Wales, Vera Baird, has stated that decisions by the CPS have pretty much, in most circumstances, decriminalised rape.

    In those situations where there may be harm for trans-women to be in women-only spaces there needs to be solutions found. But that harm needs to be established with evidence. Domestic abuse refuges, the placing of previously sexually violent trans-women in women’s prisons (though simply placing those people in men’s prisons could be problematic as trans-women are far more likely to suffer abuse in men’s prisons). Solutions to these issues need to be found, rather than simply saying all trans-women should be kept out of women-only spaces.

    In terms of the use of the word cunt I probably do use it more regularly than should. As I said I use it in three situations – racists, people who insult me first, and New Yorker. Beyond that it would almost certainly be a rarity. And even the New Yorker one is only when he is in peak New Yorker mode (and normally peak New Yorker mode is a combination of anti-Irish racism and insults so he kind of fits the previous two – I just felt he deserved his own special little category). One would hope that those three situations would be rare, though sadly not so much here (though I have been calling people a cunt a lot less since Harri dialed things down).

  105. Well said, Séamus. I think our views on transgender people are pretty much identical.
    And apologies for getting the age wrong: in my head, people don’t age on this site! 😊
    I don’t get the tank attitude to the word cunt. I’m pretty síre i could call you it without causing offence! It’s all in the context 😂

  106. I knew a lad from Navan who exclusively used the c word as a term of endearment.

  107. Exactly. I think language is used in different ways by different peoples and different cultures. I remember when I lived in England there was a male politician (I can’t even remember who it was) who was being a tad sneaky in his actions. And I remarked to my friends that he was a “cute hoor”. And the looks on their faces was hilarious as I very quickly realised that phrase had not sufficiently crossed the Irish Sea.

    “And apologies for getting the age wrong: in my head, people don’t age on this site! 😊”

    I’m like that all the time. A few months ago my mother said my cousin had moved in with her boyfriend. And, despite knowing that she is not, my initial mental reaction was “Is she not 9 or 10?” as opposed to her real age of 19.

  108. Bit late to the party here but I’m pretty torn on transgender issue. I agree that sex is biological but gender is a societal construction. Generally my personal rule of thumb is that if it doesn’t negatively affect the rights of others, walt away.

    I’ve commented here before on how I don’t understand whypvparticularly Americans find the word cunt so offensive. I’ve no problem whatsoever using it and when I do it’s 999% of the time as a term of endearment.

  109. Phew!!!

    That was a long and dare I say it, interesting read.
    Passions certainly became very high. Seamus, I recommend some soothing music and a cup of mint tea mate. 😁

    Transgenderism is an issue that seems to really divide some people.
    I can genuinely see the argument from both sides on certain points.
    My personal opinion is that it must be a terrible struggle for somebody to be trapped in a body they genuinely feel it’s the wrong sex. In these cases I feel as much help and support should be given to those people as possible. I certainly don’t see them as freaks or mentally ill. The question of is this normal is a difficult one. What is normal? Is homosexuality normal? Normality is really defined by society not by nature.

  110. Paul

    Better late than never you cunt, and as usual I totally agree with you. 😋

  111. NewYorker isn’t anti-Irish. In fact, he very much supports Ireland in many ways, its economic prosperity and culture etc. He’s anti-Republican and probably anti- a lot of other things. But to say he’s anti-Irish is like Patrick saying Americans with certain political opinions are anti-American.

    I dislike the use of vulgar sex-words in writing and speech (unless in an occasional outburst of justified anger), which in my eyes points at shortcomings in education. Those stupid and overused expressions are ugly, aggressive and seem to be just attempts to shout someone down. People should be able to express their emotions in normal English.
    Irish people especially have a standard to live up to 🙂

  112. When someone constantly uses vulgarity, I don’t think that people think that this is how he chooses to express himself

    They think “ he doesn’t know any other way to,speak “

    And they’re correct.

  113. 2 things.

    Normal is essentially a meaningless word. What exactly does it mean. Natural or the majority. Is it individual or based on popularity. If you dont like bananas eating them would not be a normal activity for you and if the majority of people like bananas does that make there eating of them normal and the no eaters abnormal, or perhaps it is normal for all people to either eat bananas or not according to thei individual likes and dislikes.

    Secondly, the word cunt is not just offensive to Americans as Paul seems to insinuate. It is I would say universally recognised in the English speaking world as the strongest swear word. You will hear it spoken on TV for example far less than you ever hear the word fuck. I would not seek to proscribe anyone using it here, we are all adults and aren’t going to faint when seeing it in print, but I do think when someone feels the need to use it in comment here, they have lost the argument and it adds nothing but to cheapen the debate and a creates a nasty atmosphere which i think ATW regulars should strive to avoid.

  114. Colm.

    Normal is essentially a meaningless word.

    Spot on Colm. The meaning of normal has changed repeatedly throughout history.

    I disagree with you on the severity of the word cunt, Paul is correct. When I worked in London in some parts it was used almost as a term of endearment. But here in the northwest it’s seen as a really bad swear word.

  115. “NewYorker isn’t anti-Irish. In fact, he very much supports Ireland in many ways, its economic prosperity and culture etc. He’s anti-Republican and probably anti- a lot of other things. But to say he’s anti-Irish is like Patrick saying Americans with certain political opinions are anti-American.”

    I think comments suggesting that smart Irish people got out of Ireland during the Famine and that all that were left behind were stupid Irish people, and that their descendants are stupid as a result, could reasonably be considered as anti-Irish.

    “I would not seek to proscribe anyone using it here, we are all adults and aren’t going to faint when seeing it in print, but I do think when someone feels the need to use it in comment here, they have lost the argument and it adds nothing but to cheapen the debate and a creates a nasty atmosphere which i think ATW regulars should strive to avoid.”

    All I would say in my defence is that I offered Peter the opportunity for us to stop insulting each other and to debate issues without insults. And Peter doesn’t want that.

  116. Dave

    Paul is not correct. You are not correct. Seamus is not correct. I am, and you cunts need to remember that always 🙂

  117. You’re a cunt! But that’s OK, I like cunts.

    Frankie Boyle

  118. Better late than never you cunt, and as usual I totally agree with you.

    Flattery will get you everywhere Alton, you silver tongued divil you.

    NewYorker isn’t anti-Irish

    I don’t know if he’s ‘anti Irish’ but he’s certainly a unionist and absolutely holds a superiority complex of at least a sizeable quantity of Irish people whose views he disagrees with.

    I would say universally recognised in the English speaking world as the strongest swear word.

    In terms of strength I agree that it has a high rating but I’ve never been able to understand why, particularly when references to the male genitalia like ‘dick’ are considered pretty mild. I also find in the majority of times it’s used more of a term of endearment rather than an insult, (See Dave’s franternal use above). My reference to Americans finding it particularly offensive is that in my expereience USers almost faint when it’s used and find it offensive in a way European English speakers don’t.

    Which in my eyes points at shortcomings in education.

    I absolutely don’t think that’s the case, Noel.

  119. Colm,

    Dave

    Paul is not correct. You are not correct. Seamus is not correct. I am, and you cunts need to remember that always 🙂

    ‘ere, you watch your lip you slag. Or me and the lads and Mr Stanley, all make sure you’ll be smiling for the rest of your f****** life.

  120. In the US cunt as a curse word is mostly directed at women by men who disrespect women so that probably adds to why it is viewed as offensive here.

  121. In the US cunt as a curse word is mostly directed at women by men who disrespect women

    Certainly not my experience of the word and an absolutely disgusting use of it.

  122. It has a different usage here than in Europe.

  123. It’s rarely used here, among any part of society.

    I don’t think that I’ve heard it used here in a decade or two.

    Again, it would reflect much more on the user, than on who was speaking about.

  124. Than on who he was speaking about

    It would be only a male who uses it

  125. Just my personal opinion, but swear words of any flavour have never bothered me in the slightest. Perhaps Because I went to a tough Liverpool comprehensive for half my time at school

  126. I agree with Mahons here (!). The C word is the strongest, most vile curse word in the US lexicon. Directed towards a woman it will result in a nuclear reaction.

  127. Nor me Dave, they are a perfectly accepted use of vocabulary in working class West Belfast where I and others here come from. I also completely disagree with the opinion that use of swear words in speech portray a lack of education. IMO such a view smacks of snobbery / classism.

  128. Except in the fraternal as used above latterly it’s a violent word . Quite horrific it shares the same meaning as a female vagina in that context of loss of self control. It’s vicious and has no moral weight even if used in outrage .

  129. West Belfast motto – I’d rather be called a cunt than a snob.

  130. //Again, it would reflect much more on the user, than on who was speaking about.//

    Yes, they do say something about the person using them, and as such shouldn’t be discouraged or censored.
    The c- word is for me probably the ugliest in the swear repertoire. Maybe I’m wrong, but I can’t imagine anyone with a natural attitude to women, or even to sex with women, using it.

    So appropriate perhaps that it’s heard in threads about this gender and trans- stuff.

  131. Quite horrific it shares the same meaning as a female vagina in that context of loss of self control. It’s vicious and has no moral weight even if used in outrage

    No, I disagree. Not where I come from it isn’t.

    Why is cunt seen as so grievous while it’s male equivalent dick is mild?

  132. West Belfast motto – I’d rather be called a cunt than a snob

    Closer to the truth than you realise, Mahons 🙂

  133. Paul, Calling a woman a cunt would be like calling her a fucking whore. Would that be acceptable in WB?

  134. Yes, Charles, it’s that, and worse.

    Dick is not any “ male equivalent “ . There is no male equivalent, or remotely close to it, at all.

    There isn’t always an equivalent to a word in a language.

    Language is a complex matter, the thoughts behind words are part of the words.

  135. Location, location location. Cunt in WB is not that big an issue. It is used differently in the US as noted above.

  136. Charles, insofar as I understand Mahons has said that’s exclusively how it’s used by Uers. That is absolutely not my experience of the word in WB, where 99% of the time it’s used as a term of endearment.

    I don’t think insulting a woman with any swear word is acceptable anywhere.

  137. Dick is not any “ male equivalent “ . There is no male equivalent, or remotely close to it, at all.

    Of course it’s the male equivalent. Dick is a slang term for the male reproductive organ as cunt is for the female one.

    Language is a complex matter, the thoughts behind words are part of the words.

    I know that language is a complex mateer, I speak a few different ones, I also know that the object and intent behind words matter. That’s why we’re debating the use of the word cunt and its meanings in different places.

  138. On a lighter note, we in the US say “I beg your pardon” a lot for “excuse me.” I hear that in the British Isles I beg your pardon is reserved for I’m sorry, but I just farted. True or false? 🙂

  139. In the British Isles

    Cunt isn’t the only offensive term then 🙂

    To my knowledge false, Charles.

  140. //Dick is a slang term for the male reproductive organ as cunt is for the female one.//

    That still doesn’t make them counterparts, Paul. Even if they were both slang words for the same object, there’d still be no equivalence. Words have different senses, associations, etc.

    “Dick” is in any case only an (ugly) Americanism.

  141. It’s not the male equivalent

    Cunt has meanings of gross promiscuity and maybe even disease

    Dick has connotations of meanness, thoughtlessness, utter disregard for the other.

    Promiscuity in males often not seen as a bad thing in the first place

    Not close to equivalents, any more than a topless male bather is the same as a topless woman

  142. Paul

    //Why is cunt seen as so grievous while it’s male equivalent dick is mild?//

    Absolutely correct Paul. Words only have the strong meanings that we attribute to them. And that’s a personal thing. One man’s meat is another man’s poison. or should that be: one man’s c**t is another man’s dick.

  143. It’s not the male equivalent

    It may not be the male equivalent in your interpretation of lewdness, hence my question, but the two nouns are the exact male / female equivalent in slang vocabulary.

    I have never, ever, ever heard the word cunt used to refer to promiscuity much less disease. Perhaps the US needs to take a look at itself if it holds the female reproductive organ in such disgusting terms.

  144. Charles in Texas,

    On a lighter note, we in the US say “I beg your pardon” a lot for “excuse me.” I hear that in the British Isles I beg your pardon is reserved for I’m sorry, but I just farted. True or false? 🙂

    I’ve never really heard anybody say I beg your pardon in any context.
    However on television people have said I beg your pardon in an indignant way when somebody does something offensive, such as fact.

    In my own experience when people break wind, polite people will usually say excuse me.
    My mates would usually say: ‘better out than in’, or ‘sow a button on that!’
    Some of my mates ask me to pull their finger. Don’t ask.

  145. As my aul granny used to say, ‘You can’t hold what you haven’t got in your hands’

  146. //Words only have the strong meanings that we attribute to them. And that’s a personal thing. One man’s meat is another man’s poison//

    There’s still a fundamental consensus within a language group on meanings and associations. Otherwise communication through language wouldn’t be possible.

  147. There’s still a fundamental consensus within a language group on meanings and associations.

    Yes, that’s why cunt is seen as grossly offensive in the US, lesser offensive in Ireland & Britain and a term of endearment in places like WB.

  148. Noel

    I totally agree Noel but that’s not the point I’m making.
    In terms of swear words, different people view the offensiveness of them, (if offence is taken), to different degrees. Does that make it clearer?

  149. Noel,

    “I dislike the use of vulgar sex-words in writing and speech (unless in an occasional outburst of justified anger), which in my eyes points at shortcomings in education. Those stupid and overused expressions are ugly, aggressive and seem to be just attempts to shout someone down. People should be able to express their emotions in normal English. Irish people especially have a standard to live up to ”

    Irish swearing in particular is often the opposite of aggressive, just part of the rhythm and music of the language. It’s punctuation. Tommy Tiernan says in some routine “I’m trying to communicate with you. The English language is a wall….and ‘fuck’ is my chisel.”. Saying it is uneducated to me sounds like those who think there is something illiterate or offence worthy about text speak (which there isn’t unless you have shares in a keyboard company or just like wasting people’s time).

    As for the c-word, Fascinating Aida have a Christmas song with the punchline “Try not to be a cunt at Christmas” and Jarvis Cocker has a song called “Cunts are still running the world”. Neither of these would work without the word and there is nothing misogynistic or offensive in either.

    It does seem a bit OTT on a blog like this and maybe overused of late too. But anyway people can write what they like.

  150. Seamus,

    “You are correct she didn’t say it. However she ‘liked’ a tweet from an anti-trans activist that used the phrase. One of the perils of social media I’m sure but still indicative in my opinion.”

    I saw Goody Proctor liking a tweet by the “anti-trans activist”

    Come off it.

    I’d be surprised if JKR hasn’t received death threats because of this. Do you think she has made any?

    Or try a thought experiment – imagine a room filled with trans women, TRAs, and JKR. A machine gun is on the table. Which of these people has reason to be afraid of being shot and why is it JKR?

    And she is supposed to be the one filled with hate?

    “I think it is possible but truthfully I’ve not seen any evidence to suggest it is an issue.”

    Some would defenestrate you as a hate filled transphobic bigot merely for agreeing it is possible and this (not trans rights) is the problem IMO. I mostly agree with you regarding self-id and bathroom stuff. But a position that is based on “it’s not a problem” needs to say what is the move when it is. For example self-ID could be the default but maybe it could be called into question if there was evidence that somebody (almost certainly some bloke) was abusing that.

    There are issues around FGM, abortion rights, medical trials and sex aggregated data that will never be an issue for trans women and which, ironically enough, could be for trans men. Meanwhile TRAs have everyone involved in a verbal game of twister that affects all of our language, law, culture and seemingly has reason itself in ruins. To some of these people a lesbian can be a homophobe if she doesn’t want anything to do with a trans woman’s penis and if man feels the same then he’s a misogynist. These people simply aren’t helping anybody.

  151. Well said Frank.

  152. “I’d be surprised if JKR hasn’t received death threats because of this. Do you think she has made any?”

    I don’t think she has made any and I would be surprised if she hasn’t received death threats (and likely all sorts of other threats) over this. Frankly at times social media is a sewer. If anyone voices any sort of opinion (controversial or otherwise) and they will be met with abuse, threats etc… and if that person happens to also be a woman that abuse and threats tends to be about 10x worse.

    “For example self-ID could be the default but maybe it could be called into question if there was evidence that somebody (almost certainly some bloke) was abusing that.”

    I would broadly agree but I’d wonder what the practical implications of that would be, and how it could be called into question, the process of calling it into question.

    It is also worth pointing out that most, if not all, of the actions that a person (as you say almost certainly a man) could abuse this system for are already illegal. It is already illegal to harass people, to attack them, to take intimate pictures of them without their consent etc…