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ATW OPEN THREAD

By Pete Moore On August 8th, 2020

Watching the cricket highlights on the TV then the garden, a wireless speaker and some beers call on another balmy evening. Have yourselves an Open Thread then. This one comes decorated with Julio Iglesias tucking into a Spanish omelette, a KFC bucket and a Chateau Lafite Rothschild.

Tell us what you know –

82 Responses to “ATW OPEN THREAD”

  1. Does anyone here use a GoPro camera

  2. Does anyone have an idea of how this will work without French cooperation?

    Questions have been raised about why people are not sent back to France once they arrive in the UK.

    Ministers said they will press French authorities to crack down on migrants attempting to cross the Channe

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53704809

  3. https://www.mediaite.com/news/hillary-clinton-leads-epic-roast-of-nyt-and-maureen-dowd-maureen-had-too-much-pot-brownie/

    Meow

    Trump hates NYT

    But if anything the Clintons hate it more

  4. Epic test match at Old Trafford. What a shame there were no fans.

  5. good win peter i listened to some of it in the afternoon

    this is what concerns me today :

    Democrats Decry “Sabotage” After “Friday Night Massacre” at Postal Service

    Rep. Gerry Connolly says
    Postmaster General DeJoy is calling this a “modified organizational structure.” It’s really a Trojan Horse.

    Deliberate sabotage to disrupt mail service on the eve of the election — an election that hinges on mail-in ballots.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/democrats-sabotage-usps-friday-night-massacre-postal-service.html

    This is the meaning of mail-in voter fraud in 2020, its Trump defrauding the election

  6. Charles

    I imagine that you’ve seen that Ireland appears about to implement a ban on tourism from the US ( because of the continuing high number of new cases In the US )

  7. Popeyes is much better than KFC.

  8. And so it begins.
    Even though it’s not supposed to start until Monday i think?

    Person in shop -‘Sorry sir you can’t come in without a mask
    Me – ‘I’m exempt’
    Person in shop – ‘Why’
    Me – ‘Medical condition’
    Person in shop – ‘What medical condition is that’
    Me – ‘One that makes me exempt’
    Person in shop – ‘Yes, but we have to ask what your medical condition is’.
    Me – ‘No actually you don’t but if you must know i have Gonorrhoea’

    This is going to be fun.

  9. P.S. I don’t actually have Gonorrhoea…obviously.

  10. But why would you be so unhelpful in the shop assistant determining your medical condition and then being dishonest about having gonorrhoea?

    Such a mindset isn’t a million miles away from this:

    https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/08/07/spains-malaga-airport-on-the-costa-del-sol-has-to-call-for-police-reinforcements/

  11. Shop Assistants have no right whatsoever to ask what your medical condition is.
    Not their fault as they should be trained properly.
    Simply stating that you are exempt is all they need. Nothing further than that is necessary or required under the current regulations.

  12. So why did you tell the shop assistant you had gonorrhoea?

  13. Pure mischievous in me Paul.
    But why i said that isn’t really the point?
    Unless she was a Doctor she wouldn’t have understood anyway.

  14. The point as I see it is that unless you have a medical problem exempting wearing a mask then you should wear one. If you have a medical condition then tell the assistant that you’re exempt and if you’re uncomfortable about saying what the condition is tell them it’s personal information.

  15. You can play these inane argumentative games

    Or you can beat back the virus

    You can’t do both

    Exhibit A as to why the UK performance has been so terrible on this

    The shop should ban you for life

  16. So Phantom you know better than my Doctor then who has strongly advised that i should not wear a mask as it may exacerbate my medical condition?
    When did you get your Medical qualifications then?

  17. One of the exceptions to general mask wearing is for those for whom it would do more harm than good as indicated by their physicians. If you have such a medical condition it is ok not to wear the mask and to advise someone at the store in general terms without going into the details as to why you aren’t wearing one. There is no need to reveal personal medical details and also no need to be a smart ass to working people trying to protect their customers and fellow staff.

  18. I am guilty as charged for being a bit of a smart ass yes.
    But the point is –
    They have no right to ask in the first place.
    You have no obligation to tell anyone the intimate details of your medical condition.
    Simply saying you are exempt is enough.
    If staff aren’t trained properly to understand that then that is the problem.

  19. Both Pete and JM have smarted off or expressed intent to hassle store employees about mask policies.

    There have been many such incidents in the UK, US and Australia

    Wonder why the UK has performed so poorly? Ask Pete and JM

    Everything a big joke to these guys.

  20. I am guilty as charged for being a bit of a smart ass yes.
    But the point is –

    ….that the shop assistant would have been within their rights not to serve you for being a smartarse?

  21. These guys decide to hassle modestly paid store employees, who are serving the public in a time of pandemic.

    Excellent.

    How do you look at yourselves in the mirror.

  22. Back to Pete’s text, and this is Julio Iglesias with the song Fragile, by Sting. It is, beyond doubt, the most compelling version as Sting concedes by his own participation:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ8g9rZOX_I

  23. Anti maskers harass store employees in separate incidents in NY and NC

    In both incidents, on video, they mock the store employees status and pay

    https://www.tmz.com/2020/08/09/long-island-anti-masker-supermarket-employee/

  24. Phantom, I have not seen that about the Irish ban on Americans. I’ll have to do some research. Shit!

  25. I dont think there is a ban so much as there is a sentiment that American tourists may not be observing the rules, and many are now being asked when they arrived to make sure they are following protocols.

  26. Both Pete and JM have smarted off or expressed intent to hassle store employees about mask policies.

    I said no such thing. Feel free to take that back.

  27. No change yet, but talk of a change soon

    I hope that I am wrong

    https://www.irishpost.com/news/government-set-to-ban-all-non-essential-travel-from-us-and-other-covid-19-hotspots-190565

    THE IRISH government looks set to ban non-essential travel from countries like the US and Brazil with high rates of Covid-19.

    New proposals being put forward by the Department of Heatlh, would see visitors from coronavirus hotspots around the world put on a special “red list”.

    Speaking to the Sunday Independent, a spokesperson for the Minister for Health said Stephen Donnelly is proposing the change, which would not impact the current green list system in place.

    The comments come a day after the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) reiterated its recommendation for the introduction of a mandatory quarantine for all passengers arriving in Ireland from overseas.

    In the letter, published by The Irish Times, the State’s public health team urged the Government to consider the implementation of a ban on non-essential travel from countries with high rates of Covid-19.

    It said: “While this remains NPHET’s preferred recommendation, if this is deemed unworkable or disproportionate, the NPHET again recommends that consideration is given to the introduction of a travel ban on non-essential travel for those countries with particularly high incidence rates.”

    Ireland currently has no travel bans in place.

    However, there have been growing calls for tighter restrictions following reports of US tourists flouting Ireland’s two-week quarantine rules in place for anyone arriving into the country.

    Last month, American tourists were reported in some of Ireland’s most popular tourist spots– several of which have said they did not self-isolate upon arrival.

    Irish restauranteur JP McMahon wrote on Twitter that staff in his Galway restaurant Cava Bodega were left feeling “very uncomfortable” after a group of people from Texas dined in their restaurant.

    “We have no way of knowing if they just arrived and should be self-quarantining,” he wrote.

    “We need a decision on this, particularly if people are coming from places with high cases.”

    Another popular Galway bar and restaurant, The King’s Head, which usually welcomes tourists with open arms, said “we refused a group of Americans yesterday who admitted that they had just flown in”.

  28. Phantom, where did you hear about a possible travel ban? I can’t find anything on the web. Do you have a link? Thanks!

  29. Cheers Phantom! If it happens, it happens I guess. Thanks for the heads up!

  30. Pete Moore, on May 12th, 2020 at 7:06 PM Said:
    Pete
    Will you wear a mask if it is a condition of entering a store ?
    Maybe, or I might try to reason the owner out of such measures. Face masks are ugly and aesthetics are as important as life itself

    Pete

    Than me very much

    The manager doesn’t need every customer whining about a policy that he likely didn’t set in the first place. They don’t need to be hassled about this.

  31. https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/us-among-covid-19-hotspots-on-travel-red-list-39434368.html

  32. Charles

    a little leprechaun told me they are only planning to ban US tourists who are Trump supporters. It’s a good job you are Biden through and through 😉

  33. I read the article you posted Phantom, and it’s because the fooking Americans there now are not self isolating like we are prepared to do. And they’re from TEXAS! Bastards.

  34. I read the article you posted Phantom, and it’s because the fooking Americans there now are not self isolating like we are prepared to do. And they’re from TEXAS! Bastards.

  35. Phantom –

    Reasoning with someone is not an “intent to hassle store employees”.

    Feel free to take it back.

  36. You said owner.

    You will never meet the “ owner “ of Tesco.

    It doesn’t have a human owner. It’s owned by mutual funds and by very many other shareholders

    If you talk to the manager to try to get him or her to change the policy, there is 100% chance that they’ll think you’re hassling a very busy person.

    If you’re saying now that you won’t try to dissuade store managers from implementing the policies of their companies, then I withdraw the comment

  37. I’d rather you didn’t try to promote your virtue by attributing to me something I did not say.

  38. I have no virtue

    But I condemn the anti maskers, who now fight one of the more stupid causes in recent years

    They’re setting our countries back. They’re harming the economy. They’re ultimately killing people. They’re hassling store employees all over the place ( more videos on request ) . All for no good reason at all, other than stupid people’s idea of convenience, or liberty, a word that none of them understand

  39. They’re setting our countries back. They’re harming the economy. They’re ultimately killing people.

    No – the lockdown, including masks, is what’s doing all these bad things:

    https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/29/lokin-20-the-lockdown-regime-causes-increasing-health-concerns/

    The symptoms of C19 are very hard to distinguish from symptoms of other respiratory infections, such as influenza and the common cold. Diagnoses from symptoms alone seems even more unreliable than the RT-PCR test. Yet the ONS confirmed this is how C19 can be identified as a cause of death:

    A doctor can certify the involvement of COVID-19 based on symptoms and clinical findings – a positive test result is not required.”

    This is a consequence of the State’s advice to doctors which informs them:

    if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID 19 infection….it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death.”

    And, as this suicide reported by The Guardian shows, they go beyond anything reasonable:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/pick-up-the-phone-to-loved-ones-urges-man-after-grandfathers-suicide

    Warning over ‘hidden effect of coronavirus’ after grandfather’s suicide

    A grandson is urging people to “pick up the phone” and speak to loved ones and vulnerable people in self-isolation after his 82-year-old grandfather killed himself during the coronavirus pandemic.

    This is absurd – it was not the virus that caused this elderly man’s death but it was the idiotic lockdown

  40. I wouldn’t worry actually, from what I’ve seen several times this week there’s no need to harrass anyone, shops want your custom far more than they want arguments and hassle.

  41. Allan

    The argumentative minority that you are part of has prolonged all lockdowns and may bring about new ones

    The Japanese, Taiwanese and Korean societies are more open than the US and UK are now because they have better leaders and have people who have more respect for other people than the anti maskers have for others.

  42. Phantom – there is no deadly virus, and that is the bottom line. You can posture and virtue-signal all that you like, but there is no deadly virus.

    I watched a discussion between a jew and a black (Mark Levin and Thomas Sowell) which was interesting so I dug a little and found……

    “It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” -Thomas Sowell

    That pretty much explains why we are where we are – in the entire Anglosphere

  43. Canada has also had much better result than the US or UK

    Very many of their restaurant dining rooms are open

    But then they tend to just get on with things, rather than whine, argue and litigate about everything

  44. Another Corona death…….

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/rape-suspect-released-jail-due-covid-kills-woman-who-accused-him

    In what is a perfect display of the efficiency of governments in dealing with the coronavirus outbreak, a Virginia rape suspect who was released from jail due to Covid concerns turned right around and killed the woman who accused him as soon as he was let out.

    That really is a deadly virus

  45. USA guys I need to understand why certain states in USA are solid republican
    It can’t be a white /black thing
    Here’s my map for 2020, pat can have a good laugh 😉
    but why are the red areas so darned red ? if you have time –
    explain it to me like i’m in kindergarten
    Kurts 2020 map prediction

  46. I don’t know Phantom my province is having the worst spike ever in the whole pandemic

    Out of a population of 1.3 million people we had the highest level of new daily cases at 45

    There are 4 people in intensive care

    And we have had a total number of cases of 547

  47. EP

    Have people let down their guard

    Canada as measured by cases or deaths per 100,000 does much worse than the Asians, but much better than the US or UK if I see correctly.

    https://theconversation.com/how-canada-compares-to-other-countries-on-covid-19-cases-and-deaths-142632

    Again, these remain early days…

  48. Phantom

    Nice to see that not only are you now a Doctor but that you have developed some sort of mind reading capability.

    Until a few days ago i have commented on anything here for months.
    So perhaps you could use your new found ability to direct me to something of mine which states that i intend to hassle shop workers over the mask issue?
    To date i’ve made no comments whatsoever on any topic with reference to the Covid situation so good luck with that one.

  49. haven’t

  50. Phantom we had 0 new cases for about 17 days but then a few people brought it back from travelling so we are keeping a lid on things

    It will be interesting to see what happens at Sturgis

    PS the high mortality rate is related to the fact that early on it got into the old folks homes in Quebec and Ontario and was very deadly

  51. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/10/nyregion/defund-police-nyc-council.html#click=https://t.co/IYjiXJJjxZ

    Interesting…

  52. Black working class strivers are those most victimized by street crime in urban America.

    Very many of them I would think want no part of idiotic proposals such as ” defunding ” or dismantling the police.

    A defunded or dismantled police department will mean more violence against their families, courtesy by unchecked gangs.

  53. Phantom, Petr,

    Right, I read a poll that said that 85% of blacks in this country wanted police funding to stay the same or actually increase, for reasons that Phantom has cited. It’s the silly white liberals on Dem city councils that are pushing this crazy defund stuff at the behest of BLM and others.

  54. Defunding the police in an arbitrary manner is suicide.

  55. I have to agree lads, ‘defund the police’ smells strongly of middle-class white anarchist.

  56. Some people think defund the police means the same thing as disband the police, it doesn’t.

    It means fund other agencies, like mental health, and let the police get back to their core services

  57. EP — It depends who you ask. Yes, it can mean just as you say, but in other contexts it means literally wipe out police budgets.

    It means fund other agencies, like mental health, and let the police get back to their core services

    You can do this without cutting police budgets which will in fact hinder their ability to provide core services.

  58. Well siad EP.

    Nuance means nothing when shouting sensationalist soundbites:

    https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html

  59. Paul — When you need to explain your slogan you’re losing.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund?s=t

    They need to find a new slogan. Words have meanings.

  60. Those who speak of defunding tend to be deeply hostile to police and policing.

  61. Paul — When you need to explain your slogan you’re losing

    Indeed Petr, defund has a different meaning as to what some are trying to interpret it as:

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abolish?s=t

    Those who speak of defunding tend to be deeply hostile to police and policing.

    Yes, a completely unbiased, non partisan, nuanced opinion there.

  62. Paul – it is an accurate statement here. Not only do they want to define the police they want to take the money and give it to various social justice organizations whose accounting practices are, how do I say this….irregular.

  63. Read the article Mahons. It states that the core concept of ‘defund the police’ is reducing often astronomical police budgets and redirecting some ot them to many of the causes of crime, addiction services, mental health, homelessness, youth services etc. Critics of this policy want to interpret defund the police’ as ‘abolish the police’ as seen above,

    Lengthy article explaining the objectives of ‘defund the police’ and the rationale behind it.

    Phantom – Those who speak of defunding tend to be deeply hostile to police and policing

  64. We already pour money into various cause of crime programs. We had a pretty good run on reducing crime in NYC by effective policing that was well funded. It benefitted all New Yorkers. It is now being dismantled by officials and charlatans.

  65. NYC’S annual police budget is $6 billion which is more than it spends on health, homeless services, youth development, and workforce development combined. ‘Defund the Police’ advocates have proposed cutting the NYPD budget by $1 billion over the next four years. That seems like reduction as opposed to dismanteling.

    One thing’s for sure, there’s something wrong in a country with such a high prison population and I for one would be open to other approaches in attempting to lower crime rates.

  66. I don’t think there’s anywhere else to put this:

    Trump says Spanish Flu of 1918 ended WWII – a conflict that didn’t start until two decades later

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-spanish-flu-world-war-2-white-house-press-briefing-video-a9664171.html

    Jesus Christ, this buffoon occupies the most powerful political office on the planet. And they say Biden has memory problems?

  67. we are perhaps hours — away from learning whether Trump thinks Biden’s VP is attractive 😉

    but seriously , Out of all the incredible choices he has from the vetting process, he could assemble one of the best, most productive teams in history

  68. If the advocates of more thoughtfully planned recalibration of budgets wish to capture better and wider public support perhaps they should abandon the ‘defund the police’ simplistic slogan and perhaps replace it with a better slogan like ‘fund other solutions’ or ‘refocus public funding’. They may not be as snappy and confrontational as the DTP one but they would be more likely to be practically effective.

  69. like it colm, remember in ireland way back was called “restorative justice “- a term which s now mainstream in UK ..

  70. Colm.

    The thing is that the people saying DTP mean what they say. They literally want to abolish the police. Now the Dems like Biden are trying to dress it up in politico speak like “reimagining” the police department, which could mean anything. Last night the chief of the Seattle PD resigned when they cut the police budget by a few million.

  71. I used to work in a Community Restorative Justice programme in West Belfast, Kurt but I don’t think that’s what ‘defund the police’ is about.

    Colm, the problem isn’t the slogan the problem is that those who are opposed to directing a % of police funding into other crime prevention strategies deliberately missrepresent it as ‘abolish the police’

  72. AOC herself has said of the $1 billion cut from NYPD, that it’s not enough. “Defund means defund” she said. I take her at her word.

  73. AOC is one Dem politician with her own opinions Charles. The POTUS said ingesting disinfectant could be useful in combatting Corona do I now assume that you as a Trump supporting republican agree that that’s correct?

  74. No, of course not Paul. Your point is well taken. Politicians say stupid things from time to time, The point with the defund movement, however, is that it is actually starting to happen in some Dem cities.

  75. The concept of what ‘defund the police’ means is explained very well in the article above.

    As an Irishman living in Spain I know what the objectives are and think that any American that thinks it means abolish the police either can’t be bothered their arses to read up o it or are willfully missrepresenting what it means.

    To think much less suggest that any society can function without a resourced police force is supreme lunacy.

  76. Paul, do you think that they’re people in my country, a minority to be sure, that want to defund/abolish the police?

  77. To change the topic, I’ve been reading in the Irish Times that the locals in Ireland are afraid of/tired of American tourists this year due to the virus, and not knowing if they have quarantined or not. As I have said on these pages, we were ready to quarantine in Dublin for a fortnight next month, but an announcement is coming this week to ban Americans. We are quite disappointed, and are wondering if we could travel through Belfast and stay within the law. We’ll have to see, or hold off a year or two.

  78. They both mean different things Charles. I wouildn’t be surprised if there are a minority of unthinking idiots caught up in the excitement of being ‘radical’ chanting soundbites who actually want policing abolished.

    They are the other end of the spectrum of those who are ultra pro police and think that ‘defund the police’ means abolish the police and those police unions who deliberately distort it to mean that in order to protect the resources spent on their members. Perhaps if both points of the pole informed themselves of what the objectives of ‘defund the police’ were and actually thought about it some consensus could be reached in the middle.

  79. Charles

    It appears that the UK ( incl NI ) rules remain that you would have to quarantine for the first 14 days and then go as you please after that

    Everything of course subject to change

    If the ROI does go for a ban on tourists, I don’t know if that means that you could or could not continue to fly into Dublin and then immediately proceed to Northern Ireland. Of course the distance is not great.

    And I don’t know if you could, after quarantining hypothetically in NI, then proceed to travel legally in the ROI at the back end of your trip.

    You may want to have a conversation with the airline and or with the Irish Tourist Board

    I’d think that if anything the Irish Tourist Board would have the best information

    https://www.ireland.com/about-ireland/travel-information/traveller-health/

    https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control

  80. Charles we have PCSO’s now in UK , they don’t have the power to arrest, but are a prescense and can call for back-up. It works well in a community setting, they intervene in hot-spots and know the tough areas and where local policing is needed. Means the resources are better spent, and communitues themsleves organise locally and make connections about how to deal with gangs and drugs and so on . Its 21st century .
    ofc the shrill on here, that tend to ride on hysteria more than logic find that difficult to grasp and therefore see the benefits, they must have a very narrow view of policing and crime and the associated underlying reasons like poverty / health / opportunity.
    Its not soft on crime,its just doing things better.
    Broken window theory for example
    reactionaries by and large don’t think , its all heat to them and no light
    That’s because they’re being led by fear and not reason 😉

  81. Thanks Phantom. We were hoping to fly LHR to Belfast and drive to Dublin to quarantine if that was legal. The rub would be if the Dublin hotel would accept Americans that were non-essential. I’ll have to wait for the new directive to come out this week to see. It may just be too much trouble and the land of a hundred thousand welcomes would be a hundred thousand problems!

  82. Biden’s gone with Kamala Harris !

    Thoughts anyone ?