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THE NFL IS BACK

By Pete Moore On September 13th, 2020

Cancel it.

A woman in America suffered a violent rape. The New Orleans Saints honoured the rapist by plastering his name across their kit. Who do they think they’re kidding?

146 Responses to “THE NFL IS BACK”

  1. Not in my house.

  2. It’s early, and this is an unusual year, but the NFL first game TV ratings were low.

    I suspect that the ratings for this weekend and the season will be low as well

    The players and the league are openly disrespecting their most loyal fans with these racist hijinks.

    NBA ratings, which had already been going down in past years , continue to decline this year

    https://www.deseret.com/2020/9/11/21432326/the-sky-isnt-falling-but-interest-in-the-nba-is

    Spectator Sports aren’t important. Any balanced person can live fine without them

  3. A woman in America suffered a violent rape. The New Orleans Saints honoured the rapist by plastering his name across their kit.

    No they didn’t. Stop making things up. Blake was charged with sexual assault and domestic assault, but the New Orleans Saints did not put his name on their helmets because of that. To say they did is a deliberate lie.

    I don’t think they should have put his name on their helmets at all, nor do I think the charges against him should be ignored. However, shooting him seven times in the back, from point blank range, when there were ample opportunities to apprehend him using non-potentially-lethal force, is still excessive, unnecessary and should not go unpunished.

    Not in my house.

    The players and the league are openly disrespecting their most loyal fans with these racist hijinks.

    But neither of you are refusing to watch the NFL because this guy’s name was printed on the this particular team’s helmets: you are both boycotting this entire sport because one player got down on one knee during your National Anthem.

  4. I’m not boycotting anything, and I’m not asking anyone else to boycott.

    I’m not going out of my way to watch the NFL or NBA though. The product is poor. It’s made worse by in your face racial politics.

    I’ve always been a casual NFL fan at best. I’ve never watched an entire game on television, and I have no interest in attending games live. With all the TV timeouts, the live experience is very poor. No continuous play

  5. you are both boycotting this entire sport because one player got down on one knee during your National Anthem.

    CALLING FOR COPS TO BE MURDERED!

    That’s what Kaepernick was protesting for and now the League has joined him.

    I’ll never watch another game again PERIOD.

  6. I’m not boycotting anything, and I’m not asking anyone else to boycott.

    That’s a very different stand from your previous one, when you said you wouldn’t watch it again, because of such political ‘hi-jinks.’

    I’ve always been a casual NFL fan at best. I’ve never watched an entire game on television, and I have no interest in attending games live.

    Nobody said you were a die-hard fan. But you did say you wouldn’t be watching it again, for the reason given above. We discussed this at length.

    you are both boycotting this entire sport because one player got down on one knee during your National Anthem.

    CALLING FOR COPS TO BE MURDERED!

    Umm, no, not for that reason. Not at all.

    That’s what Kaepernick was protesting for and now the League has joined him.

    That isn’t what he was protesting for. Making things up doesn’t bolster your argument.

    I’ll never watch another game again PERIOD.

    You have said so before and that is fine. But your reason for doing so has changed. Kaepernick did not call for anyone to be murdered.

  7. On the subject of tough ball games and those who play them, Zach Tuohy — Irish professional AFL player — has just reached the 200 appearances milestone. A great achievement in a bone crunchingly tough game.

    https://www.the42.ie/zach-tuohy-afl-laois-geelong-5196894-Sep2020/

  8. Ultimately individuals are able to choose what entertainment they want to consume, what products they want to use etc… and if the political comments or stances of the producer or their employees alienates some people then those people are perfectly within their rights to not want to give that company their business. It is a perfectly acceptable course of events.

    If Patrick and Phantom don’t want to watch the NFL because of social activism by players then they are within their rights to do so.

    I just won’t be accepting lectures on cancel culture from them.

  9. This isn’t it watching or not watching events because of the performers views or their “ activism “

    Performers have been politically engaged since forever. But you didn’t typically get political message by the actor in the middle of the film

    What is seen here is agitprop, now, in the middle of the entire sports event. You can’t watch an NBA game without seeing “ BLM “ painted on the court itself, in Pete’s photo above, the propaganda is right on the NFL player’s helmet.

    You physically cannot watch the game even for a few minutes without being on the receiving end of a political and racial lecture. Maybe you can listen on the radio, without the lecture.

    So, no to boycotts, but you’re pretty naive to think that this won’t turn away fans. The appeal of sporting events is the athleticism, the strategy, the competition, the spectacle. Now, all that is overshadowed by racial badgering during the entire event

    I Imagine that damage has been done to the leagues. We will see.

  10. “What is seen here is agitprop, now, in the middle of the entire sports event.”

    All of the NFL stuff seems to be before the game, not in the middle of it.

    “in Pete’s photo above, the propaganda is right on the NFL player’s helmet.”

    In practice, not in the actual game. There is nothing on the helmets in the actual game.

    “You physically cannot watch the game even for a few minutes without being on the receiving end of a political and racial lecture.”

    I watched an entire NFL game from start to finish last night. With the exception of the pre-game events there was none of that.

    “So, no to boycotts, but you’re pretty naive to think that this won’t turn away fans.”

    Fans not watching it because of the social activism is the definition of a boycott.

  11. Cancel culture is refusing to associate / defriending people with opposing views, and or seeking to deny jobs or platforms to those one disagrees with.

    Can you show me where I’ve engaged in any of that

    Cancel culture is almost entirely a leftist intolerance thing

    A large percentage of my personal friends have opposing views to my own, some are more right, or are Trump supporters, or more typically , here in NYC, are significantly to the left of me.

  12. “Cancel culture is refusing to associate / defriending people with opposing views, and or seeking to deny jobs or platforms to those one disagrees with.”

    You are seeking to deny jobs or platforms. At least be honest about it. You are refusing to buy or engage with a product because the NFL is unwilling to deny their players a platform. The idea being that if the NFL didn’t allow this, and or punished players who engaged in it, you would be more willing to watch.

    “Cancel culture is almost entirely a leftist intolerance thing”

    And here you have a anti-anti-racism (there is a word for that but it may annoy you) intolerance thing.

    “A large percentage of my personal friends have opposing views to my own, some are more right, or are Trump supporters, or more typically , here in NYC, are significantly to the left of me.”

    Is that the political version of some of my best friends are black?

  13. I don’t deny the NFL any platform

    They can play all the football matches that they like, anywhere they wish

    You are really grasping now.

  14. “I don’t deny the NFL any platform”

    You do. You deny them your platform.

    And you are saying to them that if they don’t deny their players a platform then they will lose your business. Thus you are attempt to get them to deny their players a platform.

    “You are really grasping now.”

    No simply pointing out your hypocrisy. You want cancel culture when you agree with it, and oppose it when you disagree. Which is perfectly acceptable, but lets stop pretending you have some sort of moral or principled opposition to cancel culture.

  15. I watched some of the Patriots game yesterday

    Long live Belichick

  16. Starting with their season opener Monday night against the New York Giants at MetLife Stadium, their helmets will bear the name of Antwon Rose Jr. on the white plastic bar at the back of each player’s helmet. Rose, a Black 17-year-old, died in June 2018 after being shot in the back by a White East Pittsburgh police officer as he fled the scene when a car in which he was riding was pulled over during in investigation into a drive-by shooting. ( WP )

    Propaganda every minute, every play, in a real game, on ESPN national TV.

    Running from the police when pulled over in an investigation of a drive-by shooting. This is what it takes for you to be honored by one of the country’s major sports teams these days.

    Interesting times we live in.

  17. Running from the police when pulled over in an investigation of a drive-by shooting. This is what it takes for you to be honored by one of the country’s major sports teams these days.

    They are not bearing his name to ‘honour’ him. Be honest about it. They are bearing his name to highlight what happened to him. The crime he appears to have been involved in (and from the evidence, it certainly appears that he was involved) is not the case either. It is the fact that he was shot three times in the back, causing his death. It is the fact that he was unarmed at the time he was shot. It is the fact that the officer who fired the shots was acquitted after a four-day trial, despite there being discrepancies in his testimony of the incident. This was not the first time the officer, Michael Rosfeld, had such an issue, as he had left his job as a police officer at the University of Pittsburgh, “after discrepancies were found between one of his sworn statements and evidence in an arrest.“

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Antwon_Rose_Jr.

    Interesting times we live in.

    They can be just as interesting, and enlightening, when we actually look at the incident in a truthful, honest manner, don’t you agree?

    Here’s an interesting piece about your pal, ‘Kappy’, and other American sports personalities who engage in ‘propaganda’ and ‘political and racial lecturing.’ They must all be lying though, because they all appear to take part in this ‘agitprop’ before the game, rather than ‘every minute, every play, in a real game’ as we all know happens. How do we know? Some guy on the internet told us.

  18. Propaganda?.

    Highlighting a cop shooting a kid three times in the back as he was running away is ‘propaganda?’

  19. “Propaganda every minute, every play, in a real game, on ESPN national TV.”

    Here is the NFL page for the Steelers Giants game. It has highlights of the game.

    https://www.nfl.com/games/steelers-at-giants-2020-reg-1

    Going through those highlights please show how many times you can read Antwon Rose Jr.’s name on the back of the helmets?

    Because unless you have x-ray vision, and pause the game repeatedly, then likelihood is you can’t read his name on the back of the helmet. So ultimately it in no way shape or form impacts on your ability to enjoy the game, unless you go out of your way to want it to impact on your ability to enjoy the game.

    You want to be annoyed by them, so you are trying to find reasons, however ludicrous, to be annoyed. So much so that the name of a child murdered by police in Pittsburgh, a name you can’t even read, annoys you so much.

  20. It’s not their Job to point out anything, to call attention to anything. Their job is to play Football nothing else.

    The NFL, NBA, MLB have lost millions and will lose Billions. They have lost over 1/2 their fans, and 2/3 of their viewers.

    You people really don’t get it.

  21. “The NFL, NBA, MLB have lost millions and will lose Billions. They have lost over 1/2 their fans, and 2/3 of their viewers.”

    No they haven’t. Viewership is down on last year, but not substantially. About 12% in the season opener. So far from 2/3rds. You don’t bolster your argument by telling lies.

    “It’s not their Job to point out anything, to call attention to anything. Their job is to play Football nothing else.”

    It isn’t their job. It also isn’t their job to stand for the US national anthem. It is their job to play football. Yet you still lost your shit when they didn’t stand for the US national anthem.

    So you seem to want them to engage in politics, just politics you support.

  22. 30% down from last years Monday night opener, and last year was down by 30% that’s a 60% loss in viewers.

    Seamus this is one of those cultural issues where you really have no clue as to the anger in the country simply because you are not here and the reporting on the issue is one sided and not honest.

  23. https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2020/09/14/nbcs-sunday-night-football-ratings-crash-nearly-30-for-woke-opening-weekend/

  24. Near me is a bar That had big screen TVs ou frint last night for the New York Giants Monday night football opener, against the Steelers, a big time opponent

    It was the best weather night of the year. Under normal circumstances, you would expect to see a big crowd out there.

    But there were much fewer than you would expect…many available seats, when normally there would be none

    The sports leagues have done damage to themselves, without advancing any cause.

    You don’t insult your customer. The leagues forgot that basic rule.

  25. “30% down from last years Monday night opener, and last year was down by 30% that’s a 60% loss in viewers.”

    Well it isn’t. You need to learn basic mathematics. Two years of 30% reduction would be about 50% reduction, not 60% reduction.

    Secondly, Monday Night Football ratings have not been released so you are talking out your hole.

    NFL ratings from week one (MNF haven’t been released yet) are a mixed bag. The New Orleans Saints and Tampa Bay Buccaneers game drew a 4 year high audience, and was a 2% increase on last year’s equivalent game.

    The opening night match last Thursday is down about 12% from last year, but is higher than it was in 2018. So the 30% followed by 30% is yet another one of you pulling numbers from the middle of no where (I’m sure you will pretend they were a joke later on). SNF figures are down by 20% but they are missing the West Coast numbers. Considering that SNF was the Los Angeles Rams vs the Dallas Cowboys then I imagine that when one adds in West Coast numbers (there being a high profile West Coast team involved) that those numbers won’t appear as bad.

    Additionally, for all the talk of gloom, NFL Merchandising set a week 1 record. They sold more merchandising in the last week than in any week 1 in the history of the NFL. Does the NFL have challenges? Yes. Are they in terminal decline? You wish but no.

  26. But there were much fewer than you would expect…many available seats, when normally there would be none

    And this was all because people noticed ‘Kappy’ kneeling four years ago? It took fans four years to get pissed off at a player who isn’t even playing!? I mean, his actions four years ago are why you and Troll said you wouldn’t watch NFL anymore, aren’t they?
    Or could there be some other reason for the crowds at this bar being smaller. Something like, oh I don’t know, a global pandemic and advice to limit visits to bars etc?

    You people really don’t get it.

    I think we do. You’re a bunch of over-emotional crybabies, who wet their panties over anyone taking a stand 🙂

  27. You people really don’t get it

    I think we get it fine.

    It’s not their Job to point out anything, to call attention to anything. Their job is to play Football nothing else

    They’re doing their job and practising freedom of expression while doing it. I thought that kind of thing was sacred to you fellas?

  28. No one has the right to say whatever the hell they wish when on the job

    There are no freedom of speech issues here

    They can prance around with their cop killer banners on their own time

    You can’t force the fans to wash that

  29. They can prance around with their cop killer banners on their own time

    I must have missed that one. Which American sportsperson(s) ‘pranced around with their cop killer banner(s)’?

  30. “No one has the right to say whatever the hell they wish when on the job”

    No one is saying they do.

    “They can prance around with their cop killer banners on their own time”

    So the name of a child lynched by police is now a “cop killer banner”?

    “You can’t force the fans to wash that”

    No one is saying they have to watch it. I would disagree that they aren’t watching. Viewership is down, but the majority of fans still watched.

  31. No one has the right to say whatever the hell they wish when on the job

    I also must have missed the part when the Americans here became American football team owners?

    You can’t force the fans to wash that

    Isn’t fans not watching it a boycott?

  32. BLM is a pro cop killer movement.

    The teams and league support BLM.

    The dog whistle message has been received.

  33. “BLM is a pro cop killer movement.”

    You can keep saying it over and over again. It doesn’t make it true.

    “The dog whistle message has been received.”

    You hate these people, really seem to hate them, for wearing the name of a child lynched by cops. You really can’t complain about dog whistles.

  34. The drive by shooting guy that was shot?

    He is now a ” child ”

    Drive by shootings are good now it seems. It’s wrong to stop drive by shootings! Yay!

  35. “Drive by shootings are good now it seems. It’s wrong to stop drive by shootings! Yay!”

    They didn’t stop it though. They extra-judicially executed a suspect, a suspect who happened to be a kid.

  36. BLM is a pro cop killer movement

    It’s not true and it’s never been true.

    The dog whistle message has been received.

    That the cops shot a seventeen year old kid in the back is now a ‘dog whistle?’

    Are you saying that fans shouldn’t watch NFL because of this?

  37. I’m not giving anyone any advice. It’s a free country.

    The fans should do what they wish to do.

  38. But in principle as you disagree with boycotts you would disagree with the fans boycotting watching the NFL?

    And I know fans can do what they wish. I’m asking you your opinion should they boycott it.

    Drive by shootings are good now it seems. It’s wrong to stop drive by shootings! Yay!

    That’s a straw man invention.

  39. Drive by shootings are good now it seems. It’s wrong to stop drive by shootings! Yay!

    When the 17 year-old was shot 3 times in the back, he was only a suspect in a drive-by shooting. Nothing was confirmed.

    Shooting suspects in the back is good now it seems. It’s wrong to stop cops shooting suspects multiple times in the back! Yay!

    The fans should do what they wish to do.

    But if it was up to you, you wouldn’t employ someone who you knew held these beliefs.

  40. When the 17 year-old was shot 3 times in the back, he was only a suspect in a drive-by shooting.

    It should also be noted that he posed no threat to the cop who shot him.

  41. I wouldn’t hire someone who gave political statements to my customers on the job when I was paying him to do something else.

    Our opinions don’t ” matter “.

    Let the customer speak. He will vote with his feet, or his eyeballs.

  42. Our opinions don’t ” matter “.

    That sounds suspiciously like a cop out. Do you think an NFL boycott is justified in this case?

  43. I generally don’t support boycotts. Sure, a boycott is more than warranted, but I won’t be part of it.

    Let the fans do what they wish.

    If they open the stadiums to fans, they can start selling ” pigs in a blanket ” at the concession stand. I guarantee that it will a real big hit with the BLM crowd. Buy a dozen, get a free pair of Kaepernick socks.

  44. Let the fans do what they wish

    We are in ageement on this. It’s also noted for future boycott subjects.

    If they open the stadiums to fans, they can start selling ” pigs in a blanket ” at the concession stand. I guarantee that it will a real big hit with the BLM crowd. Buy a dozen, get a free pair of Kaepernick socks

    I get it. Because ‘pigs’ is a derogatory slang term for cops in the US if footbal stadiums start selling a sausage based savoury which incorporates ‘pigs’ in its name obviously those who disagree with police wanton violence and heavy handedness would buy them at matches.

    Not exactly Bill Hicks.

  45. The mostly peaceful BLM supporters have repeatedly chanted “ pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon “cop killer chants

    From coast to coast they’ve changed this for years

    The “ I hope that they die “ quotes by BLM in California were not out of line in any way with what has been going on

  46. I’ve been trying my hardest not to say it, but you need to hear it at least directly once.

    You really don’t understand what is going on in my country. The past four years have been a pressure cooker. The first 3 were all directed at Trump with only an underlying attack of those on the right. That pressure has built continuously over the first 3, but this last year right at the moment of total failure on destroying Trump the pandemic hit, and following the standard democrat playbook that no disaster should ever go to waste they took advantage of people DYING. They totally overstepped their authority.

    They made 2 mistakes. 1) they punished EVERYONE no matter Party, Race, or Class. If you weren’t a Federal Worker or an elected official you got stomped on and ordered to stay home. 2) They let the animals out and have rioted, looted, and burned…… and did NOTHING to stop it.

    You underestimate the patience of the American public, we are very patient and everyone is holding their breath till the election.

    And I’ll say this now if Trump loses on election day, he loses. If however he wins and they try to steal the election as they plan to do….. Pray for us, because the insanity of the last 3 months have been the preshow to what could happen if this all goes to shit.

    I don’t believe that will happen. I believe this election is going to be the largest one sided sweep in American History, and it’s not going to break left.

    Football is a sidebar, nothing more. They’ve destroyed their brand.

  47. You really don’t understand what is going on in my country.

    Pat, I don’t know where you get this oft trotted out assumprion from. As if you being born in the US gives you some kind of special analytical dispensation over someone who isn’t.

    Time after time after time Europeans have continuoulsy demonstrated here that the perfectly understand what’s going on in your country.

    The mostly peaceful BLM supporters have repeatedly chanted “ pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon “cop killer chants

    Have they? Where?

    And yes, having 93% violence free protest is indeed very much mostly peaceful.

  48. Paul

    It is no use to pretend to be that completely uninformed.

    If you really don’t know about that chant, why are you talking about BLM? It’s been discussed here and video of it has been linked to here a number of times.

  49. Oh I know about the chant alright. It seemed to be very much a short, unrepresentative one off.

    It’s you coast to coast allusion I’m referring to.

  50. BLM is the fry em like bacon. It is who they are. They care nothing about the thousands of black lives killed in our cities by each other even the babies.

    They exist to attack the police PERIOD.

  51. They care nothing about the thousands of black lives killed in our cities by each other even the babies.

    No Pat, that’s crime and there’s billions of $s, mountains of resources and armies of people devoted to combatting it each year.

    Heavy handed cop gunslinging violence? Not so much.

  52. Paul you don’t have clue, sorry but it’s true.

    Who handles their money ? Susan Rosenberg…. she also help set up their network through her old friends which were responsible for the deaths of over 20 police officers.

    Susan Lisa Rosenberg (born 5 October 1955)[1] is an American activist, writer, and advocate for social justice and prisoners’ rights. From the late 1970s into the mid-1980s, Rosenberg was active in the far-left revolutionary terrorist May 19th Communist Organization (“M19CO”), which according to a contemporaneous FBI report “openly advocate[d] the overthrow of the U.S. Government through armed struggle and the use of violence”.[2] M19CO provided support to an offshoot of the Black Liberation Army, including in armored truck robberies, and later engaged in bombings of government buildings.[3]

    After living as a fugitive for two years, Rosenberg was arrested in 1984 while in possession of a large cache of explosives and firearms. She had also been sought as an accomplice in the 1979 prison escape of Assata Shakur and in the 1981 Brink’s robbery that resulted in the deaths of two police and a guard[4], although she was never charged in either case.

    Rosenberg was sentenced to 58 years’ imprisonment on the weapons and explosives charges. She spent 16 years in prison, during which she became a poet, author, and AIDS activist. Her sentence was commuted to time served by President Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001,[5] his final day in office.[6][7]

    You really don’t have a clue, they can put up all the nice faces they want, but the people behind the scenes are terrorists and have always been terrorists.

  53. Paul you don’t have clue, sorry but it’s true

    Much like your ‘ BLM are terrorists’ you keep saying that and it still doesn’t make it true. Time after time after time Europeans have continuoulsy demonstrated here that the perfectly understand what’s going on in your country.

    I’m perfectly aware who Susan Rosenberg is. I also believe that according to your system she paid her debt to society for her activities and that she is associated with BLM.

  54. I think that all that is true, but you need to show the source.

    But I think that our European friends have their eyes and ears glued shut on this one.

    You’ll get twenty questions from here until the end of time.

  55. She has served her time but she remains a monster.

  56. If Charles Manson had been freed from jail, they’d be fine if he set up a social justice movement.

    Because he wouldn’t be in jail anymore, therefore he would be just another member of the public.

  57. she didn’t serve her time…… the corrupt Clintons let her out.

  58. …correct

  59. But I think that our European friends have their eyes and ears glued shut on this one.

    I know you do whereas the Euros and some USers can see that the Euros see it differently from you, explain the logic & rationale of why they see it differently and that you can’t accept that.

    You’ll get twenty questions from here until the end of time

    Another jolly quip, invented straw man.

    If Charles Manson had been freed from jail, they’d be fine if he set up a social justice movement.

    Because he wouldn’t be in jail anymore, therefore he would be just another member of the public.

    And yet another. You really can’t help it, can you?

    She has served her time but she remains a monster

    She has paid her debt to your society according to your system?

  60. “But I think that our European friends have their eyes and ears glued shut on this one.”

    Or are willing to look into it, and have in the past looked at his claims around Rosenberg, and have shown that Patrick’s assertions are bullshit. But like everything else even proving Patrick wrong doesn’t stop him lying in the future.

  61. Phantom, on September 15th, 2020 at 7:06 PM Said:
    She has served her time but she remains a monster.

    Patrick Van Roy, on September 15th, 2020 at 7:08 PM Said:
    she didn’t serve her time…… the corrupt Clintons let her out.

    Phantom, on September 15th, 2020 at 7:09 PM Said:
    …correct

    Make your mind up. She either served her time or she didn’t. Or is this one of those cases where you aren’t aware of all the facts, but continue talking as if you are? Like when you kept talking about the shooting of Jacob Blake as a ‘racist murder’, even though he hadn’t (and still hasn’t) died?

  62. Patrick made a correction.

    We all thank him for the positive contribution.

    Boy you guys can’t get enough of that BLM!

  63. Patrick made a correction.

    So he corrected you. You thought she had served her time after 16 years, but he corrected you by pointing out that she was sentenced to 58 years, but was released under ‘Time Served’ by Clinton? That’s some margin of error!

    We all thank him for the positive contribution.

    Well, you certainly do, because it’s pretty clear you didn’t know much about the case!

    Boy you guys can’t get enough of that BLM!

    Why do you say that? Is it because we don’t buy into the bullshit mantra that you and Troll are trying to spread that BLM were set up to kill police officers?

  64. Boy you guys can’t get enough of that BLM!

    You really should try to converse with facts rather than cheap jibes. I see your

    The mostly peaceful BLM supporters have repeatedly chanted “ pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon “cop killer chants

    From coast to coast they’ve changed this for years

    Were quietly brushed under the carpet.

  65. I’ve never said or implied that BLM was set up to kill cops.

    I said that they call for the killing of cops, and that they take delight when cops are shot ( see a few days ago in Los Angeles )

    Anyone at this point who says otherwise is willfully blind at best.

    Pigs in a blanket, yes.

  66. it really doesn’t bother you that BOTH Phantom and I are on the same page on this ?

    How often do Phantom and I agree ? It happens but only on things that are undisputable, and this is one.

    BLM is a terrorist organization that’s primary goal is to destroy policing in the US.

    Any other description is a Lie, period.

  67. Viewership for the Dallas Cowboy’s opening game was down 30% from last year. I didn’t watch it either. Something has certainly pissed off the fans. I would say it’s the constant in your face anti-racism preaching.

  68. Anti-racism preaching by a bunch of racists

    Someone needs to make a comedy movie about this movement

  69. When you think about it, ‘ pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon’ is a pretty lame ‘cop killer’ chant. Wouldn’t ‘Kill all cops’ or ‘Death to all cops’ or something be a bit more catchy?

    I know that the usual suspects here will misinterpret this as me saying that I think all cops should be killed, but it’s really not that, so stop being silly, no matter how much fun it might be to say silly things.

    But if you want a large group of people to chant one, memorable slogan, don’t make the slogan too difficult. ‘Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon’ is too clumsy, as well as being ambiguous.

  70. no according to the irish we’re wrong Charles.

    Any fear from the Hurricane?

  71. Pigs in a blanket, yes

    ‘Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon’ was the original claim?

    Oh I know about the chant alright. It seemed to be very much a short, unrepresentative one off.

    It’s you coast to coast allusion I’m referring to

    BLM is a terrorist organization that’s primary goal is to destroy policing in the US

    Your repetition of that still doesn’t make it true.

  72. It’s not ambiguous

    BLM knows what it means

  73. BLM is a terrorist organization that’s primary goal is to destroy policing in the US.

    No, it isn’t.

    it really doesn’t bother you that BOTH Phantom and I are on the same page on this ?

    Does it bother any of us that you’re both wrong? No, not at all.

    Something has certainly pissed off the fans. I would say it’s the constant in your face anti-racism preaching.

    So are NFL fans such snowflakes that they will stop watching their favourite sport just because some players kneel down before a ball is even kicked/thrown/fumbled/whatever you do with it?

  74. It’s not ambiguous

    BLM knows what it means

    My point is that it’s not a catchy slogan, no matter what it means.

  75. You folks, so far from the US, seem to care about this subject so much.

    It’s really quite touching.

  76. BLM knows what it means

    What’s that you’re referring to? The ‘pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon’ claim?

    Do you concede it wasn’t ‘chanted from coast to coast’ as you claimed and was very much a short, unrepresentative one off?

    You folks, so far from the US, seem to care about this subject so much.

    It’s really quite touching

    Perhaps we just shouldn’t coment on a politics blog and instead allow you to comment on every subject you have an opinion on? Alternatively, you could discuss with facts like an adult instead of fuckwittery?

  77. Seimi, football fans, IMHO, see themselves as Americans first and fans second. If players are disrespectful to their country, yes, fans will ditch them. Also, in the States, politics and sports don’t mix. Patriotism and sports do mix however.

  78. Paul what you think about it is fine. You’re welcome to your beliefs. Facts are facts all members of blm that can be identified are, and it’s not due to their political popularity.

    They are a subversive network of criminals burning, looting, and rioting in every major city in the country with ties to people with a history going back to the 70s of targeting and killing cops.

    So you paint all the little pretty pictures you want about them, but it doesn’t change the leopards spots.

    You mistake political manipulation as support. The black community do not support these people nor do they represent them.

  79. I’d have no interest in any sport that has right left or other wing political slogans at it

    Where would the fun be?

    These guys would be belching another tune if there were pro Trump or UKIP politics plastered all over the sports that they liked. They only like this because it’s a cause that they like. Anything BLM does is fine by them.

  80. You folks, so far from the US, seem to care about this subject so much.

    It’s really quite touching.

    I know. I mean, you haven’t once commented on the Troubles, or Brexit or anything like that.

    Multiple police forces in the US have been in the international news in recent years, for having killed mainly black men, due to excessive physical force or over-zealous use of firearms. The Europeans (and Canadian) express extreme concern for this. The US response? “It’s the fault of the organisation set up after the first few of these well publicised killings.”

  81. They are a subversive network of criminals burning, looting, and rioting in every major city in the country with ties to people with a history going back to the 70s of targeting and killing cops

    Those aren’t the facts that you speak of.

    Anything BLM does is fine by them.

    Yet another invented untruth.

  82. Americans have had completely different takes on say the Troubles or even somewhat different takes on Brexit

    You guys are a consistent, lockstep and monochromatic excuse machine for BLM.

    I don’t think that any of the Americans here agrees with your take on it. You love them, and love is a many splendored thing

  83. Seimi, football fans, IMHO, see themselves as Americans first and fans second. If players are disrespectful to their country, yes, fans will ditch them. Also, in the States, politics and sports don’t mix. Patriotism and sports do mix however.

    I’d have no interest in any sport that has right left or other wing political slogans at it

    Charles, I take it you, Phantom and troll all refuse to watch the Olympics then?

    These guys would be belching another tune if there were pro Trump or UKIP politics plastered all over the sports that they liked. They only like this because it’s a cause that they like. Anything BLM does is fine by them.

    Seriously, if you can’t make a good point, telling lies to cover your ass does you no favours at all.

  84. You love them

    No, stop telling lies.

    You guys are a consistent, lockstep and monochromatic excuse machine for BLM.

    Your reputation for commenting without knowing all the facts is growing by the day.

  85. Americans have had completely different takes on say the Troubles or even somewhat different takes on Brexit

    So why in your world do you allow Yanks to comment on such things yet come off with ‘touching’ wankery when Euros return the serve?

    You guys are a consistent, lockstep and monochromatic excuse machine for BLM

    If citing opinion based on demonstrable facts makes me an excuse machine for BLM, then yeah.

  86. Those aren’t the facts that you speak of.

    they are the ONLY facts that I speak of and have spoken of since Kaepernick took the first knee in support of BLM because that’s why he did it to support a group calling for the death of cops.

    oh and Seimi I don’t talk on posts about the troubles, haven’t in a long time. The reason I don’t is because of the sensitivity of the subject to those on this site that were personally caught up in it and because of their first hand knowledge of it.

    I can’t argue it with them because they can not be objective, and can only view the situation from the view of someone on the ground THERE & THEN.

    Yet you can’t grasp the fact that WE are HERE & NOW and just as you have what you BELIEVE is the correct and only view of the Troubles that matters because you were there…. yet you can’t understand how we can say the same thing.

    Now do you believe your view of the Troubles is more accurate than mine?, but my view of the burning, looting, and rioting taking place in my city or Phantom in his YOU know more about it……

    As I said, I will always be the brightest in the room 🙂

  87. Seimi, from what I remember of 1968, those athletes were roundly condemned at the time, a chara.

  88. They are the ONLY facts that I speak of and have spoken of since Kaepernick took the first knee in support of BLM because that’s why he did it to support a group calling for the death of cops.

    Pat, with the utmost respect you have a habit of presenting unsupported opinion and citing it as fact. It’s not and neither is what you claim above.

  89. I may be the only one here who has seen BLM events in person in the US ( Foreign trend-setter events may be disregarded ) ‘

    I’ve seen three in Brooklyn.

    One very organized by Prospect Park. Organized chants, well done, no trouble.

    Another at the same area, all earnest white people with nice signs. They were so pleased with themselves

    Another near me, where they came to disrupt someone else’s event, start trouble and set fires, which is what they did do ( all on film )

    So my personally witnessed events were mostly peaceful. They’re so good.

  90. PaTroll

    It was Phantom, in his condescending, smartarsey way, who first brought up people outside the US commenting on US affairs. My response was to him mainly. I know you don’t comment much on the Troubles – when you do, you’re usually wrong, but you are honest about it.
    The point, which was clumsily made, is that, as a blog site, we are all free to comment – or not – on any post which is published. We all have opinions, we all have our own thoughts on a myriad of subjects.
    Personally, I found Phantom’s “You folks, so far from the US, seem to care about this subject so much. It’s really quite touching” comment to be proof that he has no argument at all, and is falling back on a ‘you’re not from here, you don’t know’ position.
    This is a perfectly valid comment to make, usually, as – usually – it is an indication that the person making it has personal proof, evidence or experience which will add to their debate. However, when the comment is made in this smarmy, glib way, it makes for a very poor rebuttal to the points it is somehow meant to counter.
    You have all made the point that we, as non-Americans, cannot understand what the playing of your national anthem means to you. Are you all trying to imply that we don’t understand patriotism? We are immensely proud of our national anthem, and stand for it whenever it is played. But our point (or at least, my point) is – and has always been – that we would not see it as disrespectful, if a sportsperson went down on one knee, in protest at police shooting a fellow citizen seven times in the back from point blank range, or in protest at a police officer kneeling on a man’s neck until he died, ignoring repeated pleas that he couldn’t breathe, or any one of the far too many cases of police heavy-handedness leading to death of an Irish citizen. In fact, we would support them, and you could find that a large number of spectators might join in kneeling in solidarity.
    The police are not accountable to any one party, or to the government, or to one side, colour or religion of the people. They are accountable to the law, and the law should be blind to all these things.
    Coming from a family of cops, you should agree with that. Instead, you have tried, on almost every occasion, to justify the action of the officer, and find fault in the victim, same as Phantom.
    You can call BLM a terrorist organisation, but they’re not. You can say they were set up to ‘disorganise’ the cops, but they weren’t.
    BLM are a product of years – not four years, but decades – of perceived and actual wrongdoings, by multiple police forces against – mainly – the African-American population. I don’t believe you can deny that. Not every member of BLM is a good guy, in the same way that not every member of every police force is a good guy. The ‘a few bad apples’ excuse works both ways. What both organisations need to do – what any organisation of any kind needs to do – is to weed out those bad apples, get rid of them, and adopt a zero-tolerance policy towards any ‘bad apples’ in the future.
    It’s not that BLM shouldn’t exist – they shouldn’t need to exist. But they do, and they do for a reason. remove the reason, you remove their reason for being. Nothing else will work. What you, Phantom and others are doing, is attempting to demonise them, which will only end in driving them underground, and that won’t work.
    Making stupid statements like ‘you guys love them’ doesn’t work either. In this respect perhaps we do understand something about your country that you don’t – we understand why BLM exist. You don’t.
    You have said repeatedly here that every person in the US has the same opportunity as everyone else to succeed, and that in the cases where they don’t succeed, it is down to the individual and the choices they made. This is patently untrue, and perhaps is one of the reasons why you can’t seem to grasp why BLM would ever exist.
    You say that everyone, no matter their class, colour or religion, can achieve anything they want in the USA. But you say that as a white man, not a black man. Ask young black men in the poorest areas of New York, Philly, Chicago, Los Angeles – anywhere in the USA – do they feel they can achieve anything in their country? The deck is stacked against them from the day of their birth. There are people on this site who remember the civil rights movement in the States. Do you honestly believe that so much has changed in such a short time?
    Slavery was abolished in your country in 1865, but you’re still dealing with the legacy of it! How can you have gone from civil rights in the late 60s to equality for all in a mere 50 years?
    Individuals like you can, and are, non-racist. But as a nation, racism is still a problem. It’s still a problem in the UK as well, and in many European countries. But at least in many of these countries, they recognise that it’s a problem. They don’t try and deny it. If you deny the problem exists, how can you ever fix it?

  91. Police brutality is a real issue.

    Over-incarceration is a real issue.

    A bad drugs war is a real issue.

    These three issues are connected. I’ve addressed all of these, with varying degrees of feedback here.

    You don’t fix these with a racist, sometimes violent, more times violence threatening, cop-killer supporting movement.

    BLM makes existing problems worse, and does nothing else.

  92. Seimi, from what I remember of 1968, those athletes were roundly condemned at the time, a chara.

    They were booed as they left the stadium, mate. Did that mean they were wrong for doing what they did?

    I may be the only one here who has seen BLM events in person in the US ( Foreign trend-setter events may be disregarded )

    Brilliant! So, people protesting about police heavy-handedness, brutality etc, anywhere else in the world, can be disregarded, if they do it in support of BLM? I take it all the memorials for 9/11 around the world can also be safely binned as well?

    So my personally witnessed events were mostly peaceful. They’re so good.

    You are becoming the Yank Pete Moore. And that’s not a good thing, because you don’t have his taste in music or football teams.

  93. BLM makes existing problems worse, and does nothing else.

    You’re gonna shit yourself the next time you visit the UK. There are BLM posters, banners and murals all over the place, and players in different sports here are still kneeling in many cases. I guess all these people are just more stupid than a few, enlightened, privileged white people in the US (if Harri was still here, he would be accusing me of hating ‘old whitey’!)
    And that is partly because in the UK and Ireland, we recognise and admit that there is a racism problem, and there is a problem with racism in the police, here and abroad. We don’t hide our heads in the sand and try to blame the problem on an organisation set up to counter the problem!

  94. Seimi very well written and from the heart.

    But regardless of Phantom said didn’t say or how he said it…. you my friend are wrong on multiple fronts.

    Do I take the side of the Cop over an animal…. Yes I do.

    I do so not because of my personal bias, which I most certainly have, but because my eye is objective and trained. I look at a situation involving the police from a totally different point of view than any of you, I was taught, and not taught that the cops are always right but how to evaluate a police interaction between them and the public whether it’s just communication or an arrest and if it’s an arrest the rules of engagement.

    The streets of cities like Philly, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, and a few others are combat zones that make the troubles look like a Sunday picnic. 3,637 people died during the troubles. The Troubles is usually dated from the riots of 1968 through the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. That’s 30 years less than 4000 dead….

    In 2018 there were 16,214 Murders, 667 under age 11, 2886 age 12-17 those are just the deaths in one year Skippy so cry me a river. You don’t know what violence is. I grew up in a city that has been in the top 5 most violent cities in the country every year since they started counting. It avg 400 homicides a year over 5000 shootings.

    So please when you whine about the troubles or police brutality I’m sorry I have to laugh.

    You lack perspective as to what violence is, and you have absolutely no understanding of Police work.

    As for your righteous black anger. When I was born Jim Crow was the Law in the South and Philadelphia which was the end destination of the underground railroad before the civil war was still the place black americans fled to. I watched the civil rights movement right outside my window, my family provided protection for MLK when he was in Philly and they volunteered.

    In my lifetime I’ve seen seperate water fountains, seating and entrances turn into a Black Man being elected President. I’ve also watched Kings dream be hijacked by the race pimps and now terrorists in BLM.

    Your view of race in America is as misinformed and reeking of ignorance as much if not more than your pathetic perspective on violence.

    I play nice to keep the peace, but you my friend come up so wanting on this thread I had to be blunt.

  95. Interesting.

    I’ve never seen the separate water fountains.

    There was plenty of overt racism in the northeast and midwest a few decades ago but that I never saw, other than on black and white TV

  96. PaTroll

    Do I take the side of the Cop over an animal…. Yes I do.

    And… you lost me, right at the start.

    In many of the very well publicised cases, broadcast around the world, it only became apparent after the fact – and by fact, I mean death, or serious injuring – of the victim, that they were actually guilty, or suspected,.of anything at all. of anything! So you are openly admitting that you would side with the officer, before knowing any of the mitigating factors leading up to the assault/killing of a suspect/victim? It’s no wonder you’re not a cop yourself.

    I wrote respectfully to you. I didn’t insult you. I acknowledged your family background, your non-racist stance.
    Yet you can’t seem to help yourself. My name is not ‘Skippy.’ I’m not some ignorant, silly little boy, so don’t apply some twee American name to me, as if you’re trying to explain something slightly complicated to me.

    I also didn’t ‘whine’ about the Troubles. I used my own experience to talk about the situation in the States. You don’t need to throw those stats at me. I personally knew some of those numbers, as do most of the ‘NI contingent’ here, just as I know that you knew some of the numbers on your ‘side.’
    I also know that our ‘numbers’ (dead people) don’t compare to yours. Thank god. We didn’t even kill 4,000 people on our tiny little island. You have killed hundreds of thousands on your own. What a competition to win. You must feel great.

    You lack perspective as to what violence is…

    This must be one of the most ignorant, ill-informed statements ever to appear on ATW. For such a small island, Ireland and the Troubles have been a subject of debate for decades, not just as a study of a religious/colonial war; a petty, nasty, vindictive little war; a horrible example of the evils of men do, but as a blueprint for peace. The Troubles caused ripples around the world. The Peace Process caused huge waves.
    The figure you mentioned above came from a conflict which had been ongoing for centuries, culminating in a struggle for civil rights. As regrettable as each death may have been, of course they pale into insignificance when compared to the death rates of such a well-developed nation as the USA!
    The numbers you mentioned above in regard to the USA in just one year are for domestic crime, yet for some reason, you seem to be boasting about them!? This is crime for no other reason than personal gain, marital problems, suicide or – the closest you’ll get to what we endured – turf wars.
    You have no idea, literally no clue, what it feels like to grow up in a divided state. Where your government is your enemy. Where you can be denied employment because you are different from someone else. Where an occupying army can break down the door of your house in the middle of the night, drag you all out into the street, beat you father to the ground and then destroy your house, only to come back and do it again a few nights later.
    Now THAT is ‘whining’ about the Troubles!
    You say you lived through Jim Crow etc. We lived through a Unionist-controlled state, where my parents were threatened with jail for opening a school; where my Da was lifted on a regular basis by police and army; where my surname guaranteed I would be shot if the wrong person heard it.
    You may have lived through that time, but you didn’t experience it. You may have thought, “Hey! This seems wrong, what’s happening to those other guys!” But you were never the one on the receiving end. You were never the one on the butt-end of a rifle, or even worse – staring down the barrel, while some nervous, cocky prick from Bolton called you a Paddy Bastard.
    Our experiences are different, but I had thought our beliefs were quite similar. I however, don’t automatically assume that the person with the badge and the gun is right. I have openly admitted that many of the IRA’s actions were wrong. I have called them out for the murder that they were. You haven’t done this with US cops. The closest you got was when you condemned the cop who killed George Floyd, and even then, after a few days, you reeled that in, and started bringing up his previous convictions, as if to justify his killing.
    So, like I said, you lost me right at the start. And, like I said a long time ago to you – I won’t be lectured to on killing by the likes of you.

    Your view of race in America is as misinformed and reeking of ignorance as much if not more than your pathetic perspective on violence.

    my view of race in America has been formed by reading about it, learning about it and speaking to black and white Americans, from both sides.

    I play nice to keep the peace, but you my friend come up so wanting on this thread I had to be blunt.

    Don’t act as if you are some all-knowing racism-guru. If you want to have a proper debate about this, then go for it. You can start by responding to what I have written here, giving examples of when you experienced state-sponsored violence, police collusion with paramilitaries, institutional sectarianism and A) what you did in each situation and B) what your solution is to the whole problem.
    Over to you.

  97. Seimi.

    I salute you sir. That was one of the best responses I’ve ever read on ATW.
    So good, I read through it a couple of times.

  98. Patrick has openly condemned at least one other police shooting, a couple of years ago.

  99. Patrick has openly condemned at least one other police shooting, a couple of years ago.

    Oh, well in that case, forget everything I wrote. Holy fuck.
    As bad as he is, you are worse. ‘Patrick’ as you now like to call him, is at least honest enough to try and defend his position. Why don’t you? And I don’t mean with, “I personally know…” anecdotes, which sound lovely but mean nothing. But with actual arguments: facts, data; evidence: anything which might actually bolster your argument, rather than weaken it.

    Any chance?

  100. Dave

    Thanks, mate. I’m annoyed, but hopefully articulate.

  101. You may wish to read what’s been written, not just tonight’s comment either.

    You pretend not to know more than you might know.

    No point to add to a dialogue of the deaf and oh so enraged.

    Tell us what we should call PVR that may meet with your approval.

  102. Why don’t you just stop writing cryptic rubbish and say what you want to say?

    You pretend not to know more than you might know.

    What does this mean??

    Why don’t you write something coherent enough to warrant a response?

  103. Seimi….. No

    First off “skippy” that bothered you? I did myt best to not call you stupid, because I know you are not in spite of the stupidity you’ve written on this post.

    What you want to compare scars? I saw my first killing at 14 watched a friend of mine get shot in the head. I’ve been shot at, and I’ve been stabbed. So what?

    Did you suffer oppression, yes. All the Irish on your little Island did. You suffered that first hand your right I didn’t. My Ancestors both Irish and Italian left the old world for the new and we’re treated with contempt. Both families had a choice between crime or the Law both chose the Law.

    You say you didn’t insult me…. yes you did. You may not have thought you were insulting, but your view of the police I take grave insult from it, and I take great insult being lectured to about the plight of american blacks by someone that sides with those that commit violence in the name of being black. Those are not the black people I know, that I grew up with. That I went to school with, served in the military with or whose sisters I dated.

    If my referring to america’s criminal element as animals offends… oh well. An animal or a convict has NO race, NO gender, they have a rap sheet. When you commit crimes you lose things, the first is your humanity. Like an animal you prey on your fellow man. So if my terminology disturbs you to bad.

    And the root of my issue with the “Irish” of the Isle of Ireland is you embarrassed everyone of Irish decent even more than the mafia are an embarrassment to the Italians. They were at least honest criminals.

    I watched the Civil Rights movement everyday growing up, my family supported King in a time that it was not popular to do so, but as my daddy said “It’s because he’s doing it right son, we will stand with him and protect him” . Doing it right….. I watched black americans who did it right achieve everything they wanted, cross every bridge and jump every hurtle.

    But the people you support suffered no more and much less than black america, yet they turned to violence. Sorry there is no excuse, no justification for it. And if as a FULL people the Isle of Ireland even just the northern half really wanted independence you declare war. You do it publicly in the open you put your names faces and asses on the line. You clowns donned masks and targeted civilians…. no that’s an embarrassment the fact that you don’t get that is the core of your problem.

    You believe their action justified even if you don’t support it. This pattern follows your thinking everywhere. It’s why you support the Palestinians, BLM and any other victim that strikes out with violence.

    Sorry that is just not how I’m wired. I respect you Seimi I really do, whether I think you are right or wrong I respect your honesty, openness, sharp wit and even some of your choices in music.

    Your view of right and wrong is skewed, your view of America is just wrong.

    Call me whatever you want, you can’t offend me. Feel about me whatever you choose there is nothing I can do about that cause I’m not going to change and neither are you. We are who we are. It also won’t stop me from caring about you, or printing anything you write.

  104. I think the basic divide here boils down to the fact that Patrick gives the police the benefit of the doubt, being from a police family. Seimi, whose family suffered at the hands of the RUC and the British Army, does not.

    One thing that Seimi said and wrote that resonated with me is that he and his family was actually on the receiving end of the violence in Northern Ireland, whereas in white America, the rest of us were just onlookers. (Patrick may have been closer to the violence than I suggest.) Seimi is a better man than I, in that if I had gone through what he had, I would not be non-sectarian like he is. That he has grown up to be non-sectarian in Belfast is a testament to his late parents, IMHO.

  105. And the root of my issue with the “Irish” of the Isle of Ireland is you embarrassed everyone of Irish decent even more than the mafia are an embarrassment to the Italians.

    You are an American with tenuous Irish historical connections Pat. You’ve no need and certainly no right to vicariously feel ’embarrassed’ for the actions of the result of something that you’ve never experienced in somewhere you’ve never been and don’t know how you would react yourself.

    You do it publicly in the open you put your names faces and asses on the line.

    That’s absolute, schmaltzy emotional bullshit.

    You clowns donned masks and targeted civilians….

    The overwhelming, vast majority of IRA civilian cuasualties were a result of recklessness as opposed to intention, I believe you guys have a term for it – ‘collateral damage’ or something? and the microscopic number of times the IRA deliberately targetted civilians was an absolute bloody disgrace to the high heavens and sullied the cause of Irish Republicanism.

    Besides,

    People get killed, shit happens

    Who said that?

  106. I guess Patrick thinks the French and Polish resistance were in the wrong for not telling the Nazis their names.

  107. You clowns donned masks and targeted civilians….

    Patrick has previously advocated extreme revenge attacks against innocent civilians.

    “If they kill 10 or ours, we kill 1000 of theirs.” (paraphrase). He clarified that yes, that meant women and children.

    Not to mention the post hoping that SF voters would be the next to die in a car bomb.

  108. Not Sinn Féin voters. Their children. He hoped that their children would die in car bombs.

  109. That’s just Pat talking through his arse.

  110. I stand corrected Seamus, though I always have to agree with Charles. I don’t think Patrick believes this stuff in his heart.

  111. I agree he doesn’t believe it. But he still should come out and say he doesn’t believe it.

  112. //I also know that our ‘numbers’ (dead people) don’t compare to yours. //

    I once met in Dublin two intelligent Americans who were at the end of a tour of Ireland, north and south. They said that when they first came they were interested in seeing something of the Troubles in Ireland. The people in Dublin told them, Ah, No, ye’d have to go to the North to see that.
    So they took a car and drove north. Somewhere in Down, someone said: Ah, it’s Belfast you’d have to visit, that’s where it’s worst. Later in the centre of that city someone told them that they’d have to go to West Belfast to see the Troubles. Heading there, they were told to concentrate on the Falls Road…..

    It’s pointless comparing violence in “Ireland”, or even NI, with violence anywhere else. The violence in the North was very local, and so was the reaction to it. IRA groups sprung up in different places at different times and in different ways, relatively independently of each other, but always in response to the local situation. As it happens, Seimi spent his youth in one of the worst places for violence (though perhaps one of the best for other things), and (while Seimi merely said he could have been shot) people like him and Paul for years had to live with the risk of being abducted from the street where he lived, tortured for days before having his throat cut, all simply because of his name or religion and by people who lived just a few streets away.

    Above all, they had nobody in the all-powerful state to fall back on – the police and army saw them and were seen by them as their enemies, and very often colluded with the very men who tortured and murdered them. There was simply no place in the US where a white American was subject to the same risks and the same tensions day-in, day-out for decades.

    //he and his family was actually on the receiving end of the violence in Northern Ireland, whereas in white America, the rest of us were just onlookers.//

    Yes. For a time, I used to try to imagine how others on this site would have reacted if they’d lived, say, on the Falls in 1969 and the following years.

    But then when you think of the mountain of hypocrisy they so easily climb, I gave it up.

  113. Noel

    Very well said mate. As Seimi, and my wife and I sat in his car in front of his family home, listening to stories of how they were treated by the RUC and the British Army, I couldn’t help but think “how would I have faired?” Seimi’s parents were so brave for sticking it out in Belfast with a family under such terrible conditions. I’m afraid I wouldn’t have been as brave.

    My trip to Belfast has totally changed my view on Irish Republicanism and the reclaiming of human rights, dignity, and equality for Catholics in N.I.

  114. First off “skippy” that bothered you? I did myt best to not call you stupid, because I know you are not in spite of the stupidity you’ve written on this post.

    Yes, it does bother me. It’s condescending. Please don’t use it.

    What you want to compare scars?

    No, I don’t. I was trying to explain why my thoughts are shaped as they are. I don’t consider this some pissing contest, even if you do.

    My Ancestors both Irish and Italian left the old world for the new and we’re treated with contempt.

    Jesus. This isn’t some Hallmark Channel movie. You’re not Fievel the Mouse in an American Tail!

    You say you didn’t insult me…. yes you did. You may not have thought you were insulting, but your view of the police I take grave insult from it…

    Well, they say that offence is in the eye of the offended (or something), so if you feel offended by what I wrote, I can’t stop you. I will, however, point out that I didn’t, in fact, attack the police, unless you believe that stating facts about the police is the same as attacking them. If that is the case, then perhaps you need to examine how the police behave.

    …and I take great insult being lectured to about the plight of american blacks by someone that sides with those that commit violence in the name of being black.

    I ‘side’ with people who are being treated unfairly by the authorities who should be looking after them and protecting them. That is called injustice, and I stand against it. You should try it sometime.

    If my referring to america’s criminal element as animals offends… oh well. An animal or a convict has NO race, NO gender, they have a rap sheet. When you commit crimes you lose things, the first is your humanity. Like an animal you prey on your fellow man. So if my terminology disturbs you to bad.

    I had to actually read back on my earlier comment, because I couldn’t remember mentioning anywhere that your use of the term ‘animal’ in reference to a suspect had offended me. It doesn’t now and, having checked, it didn’t then. I am used to you using insulting terms like this to describe anyone who doesn’t agree with you. I thought you might be confused because I block-quoted the comment right at the start of my own comment, but the following paragraph makes it clear that I was referring to your admission that you would take the side of the police over the suspect. I made no mention of the term you used or how it did or didn’t make me feel.

    And the root of my issue with the “Irish” of the Isle of Ireland is you embarrassed everyone of Irish decent even more than the mafia are an embarrassment to the Italians. They were at least honest criminals.

    That’s fine and dandy, but I didn’t ask what your problem with Irish people anywhere was. I don’t know why you brought this up, except possibly as a distraction.

    I watched black americans who did it right achieve everything they wanted, cross every bridge and jump every hurtle.

    Look, that’s great, but it doesn’t in any way address the point I was making. The USA has a racism problem. So does the UK and other countries. Bringing up personal anecdotes about black Americans who ‘made it’ does not negate the fact that many more black Americans do not ‘make it.’ They remain in poverty, with no hope of ever ‘making it.’ I don’t understand why you keep repeating this falsehood about everybody in the USA having equal opportunities to achieve success. It’s simply not true.

    But the people you support …

    You’re back to this again? Look, you don’t need to get all defensive, just because I voice my opinion or state facts about your country. You don’t need to counter everything I write with, ‘Yeah, but whatabout you and the IRA?’

    You believe their action justified even if you don’t support it. This pattern follows your thinking everywhere. It’s why you support the Palestinians, BLM and any other victim that strikes out with violence.

    As I stated above, I am against injustice, not for violence. That is why I support Palestine and BLM. I can support a cause, but not all the actions carried out by that cause. This is a major difference between you and I. I am more than happy to call some actions wrong, while still supporting that cause. I have repeatedly condemned some of the actions carried out by the IRA, for example.
    You, on the other hand, will and have excuse any and all actions carried out by the causes you support, right up to murder.

    Your view of right and wrong is skewed, your view of America is just wrong.

    My view of right and wrong is not the view that is skewed. I don’t excuse murder, nor do I advocate violent death as a means of maintaining peace. You cannot say the same.

    Call me whatever you want, you can’t offend me.

    Again, I had to check back over what I wrote, because I didn’t believe I called you anything. I hadn’t, so I’m not sure why you inferred that I did.

    We are who we are.

    We are indeed.

    I think the basic divide here boils down to the fact that Patrick gives the police the benefit of the doubt, being from a police family. Seimi, whose family suffered at the hands of the RUC and the British Army, does not.

    Charles, I believe that to be a very diplomatic way of putting things 🙂
    PaTroll gives blanket endorsement and full support to any and all actions carried out by the police ( except apparently for one police shooting, a couple of years ago). And it isn’t that I don’t give the police the benefit of the doubt. I really do. I support the police, or rather, I support an effective, impartial police force. When I see a police force protect its own in the face of all evidence of wrongdoing, I can’t support that, or give it the benefit of doubt.

    One thing that Seimi said and wrote that resonated with me is that he and his family was actually on the receiving end of the violence in Northern Ireland, whereas in white America, the rest of us were just onlookers.

    Charles gets it. I don’t mean the part about me and mine. White America, that’s it. Ask Black America how protected it feels by and from the police!

    Not Sinn Féin voters. Their children. He hoped that their children would die in car bombs.

    Seamus, if you’re going to bring things like that up, at least show the full picture. He has broadened his horizons a bit since making that statement, and now supports shooting US citizens engaging in the First Amendment Right of Freedom of Assembly, in order to facilitate his president getting a photo opportunity.

    PaTroll constantly talks about how people he doesn’t agree with are ‘un-Constitutional’, yet he advocated the use of real bullets against a crowd exercising their Constitutional Rights.

  115. Seimi spent his youth in one of the worst places for violence (though perhaps one of the best for other things), and (while Seimi merely said he could have been shot) people like him and Paul for years had to live with the risk of being abducted from the street where he lived, tortured for days before having his throat cut, all simply because of his name or religion and by people who lived just a few streets away.

    Noel

    a mutual friend of mine and Paul’s, whose name I won’t mention here, but who Paul (I believe) christened ‘Quantum Drip’, escaped this possibly happening to him. As it was, he was lucky to escape, having only been shot five(?) times. He says that, as he lay hiding in a garden while two gunmen searched for him, the thought uppermost in his mind was the absolute humiliation he would feel when the nurses at the hospital would see that he had defecated in his trousers.

    My trip to Belfast has totally changed my view on Irish Republicanism and the reclaiming of human rights, dignity, and equality for Catholics in N.I.

    Charles, I would love for you to expand on this. Perhaps a wee post from Texas? 🙂

  116. Charles, I would love for you to expand on this. Perhaps a wee post from Texas? 🙂

    Seimi, perhaps when I get back to El Paso and am not jet lagged, that would make make a good post that could be debated. It would be better than a recount of my holiday where I bore everyone with “I went here, then went there” kind of thing. I’ll put my thinking cap on!

  117. Seamus, if you’re going to bring things like that up, at least show the full picture. He has broadened his horizons a bit since making that statement, and now supports shooting US citizens engaging in the First Amendment Right of Freedom of Assembly, in order to facilitate his president getting a photo opportunity.

    PaTroll constantly talks about how people he doesn’t agree with are ‘un-Constitutional’, yet he advocated the use of real bullets against a crowd exercising their Constitutional Rights.

    lol BULLSHIT!

    What I said was If you support people that have killed children then your children should die the same way You reap what you sow.

    And violent Protesters are NOT exercising their 1st Amendment rights, they are rioters, violence is not speech it’s violence. They threw frozen bottles of water at him, which is the same as throwing bricks. Barr’s security detail should have dropped them on the spot.

    My reference to my terminology is do to the very first bit in your comment…

    Do I take the side of the Cop over an animal…. Yes I do.

    And… you lost me, right at the start.

    How and why did I lose you from the beginning if it wasn’t the Animal part of that Statement? The fact that I give the cop the benefit of the doubt before the criminal ? Gee lets see the cops job is to respond to calls for the police to deal with someone engaged in a criminal action. So I should give the benefit of doubt to the Criminal?

    No that’s stinkin thinkin on your part.

    Look, that’s great, but it doesn’t in any way address the point I was making. The USA has a racism problem. So does the UK and other countries. Bringing up personal anecdotes about black Americans who ‘made it’ does not negate the fact that many more black Americans do not ‘make it.’ They remain in poverty, with no hope of ever ‘making it.’ I don’t understand why you keep repeating this falsehood about everybody in the USA having equal opportunities to achieve success. It’s simply not true.

    Right their Seimi reemphasizes your basic delusion. Blacks in America are not oppressed and the majority of by far never have any involvement in criminal activity.

    In 2019 US Census Bureau estimated 48,221,139 African Americans in the United States which is 14.7% of the total American population of 328.2 Million.

    Black household income is rising across the United States

    Last week’s headlines around the release of new Census Bureau data spotlighted a continued rise in income inequality. The Gini index—a statistical measure of income inequality—rose to its highest recorded level in 50 years, signaling that the distribution of income in the United States is the most uneven it’s been since the Bureau began tracking it in 1967.

    That disturbing trend, however, masks the economic progress Black households have made in recent years. In 2018, their median household income (the level at which half of households have higher incomes, and half lower) reached $41,511. While that level only slightly exceeded that (and was statistically unchanged) from 2017, it continued to top 2007’s pre-recession peak for Black median household income of $41,134.

    This is the rest.

    How much money average Americans make?
    Full-time workers in the U.S. earn a median income of $908 per week, or $47,216 per year . But income can vary greatly depending on how old you are. Women hit their peak earning age at 44, while men achieve their highest earnings 11 years later at 55, a recent PayScale report found.

    Not much difference is there?

    Just as the FACTS show that out of police involved killings in the process of arrest 2 whites die for every black that dies, but don’t let facts like these ever get in the way of your delusion.

    There is the narrative and then there are the facts.

    The narrative blacks are oppressed, but the make the same avg income as the entire rest of the country. The narrative the cops kill black people yet the number of whites killed by the police beat black deaths by a greater than 2 to 1 ratio.

    The FACTS don’t match your fantasy of repression and righteous violence. And as I’ve said in my life time it has gone from seperate water fountains to a black man as President.

    So yeah in 60yrs that much has improved.

    As for this assinine remark…… PaTroll constantly talks about how people he doesn’t agree with are ‘un-Constitutional’, oh bullshit, if I say it’s unconstitutional it’s because it’s unconstitutional period based on the facts, not my personal feeling.

  118. There are disagreements on what is constitutional on various things.

    The constitution doesn’t mention pandemics, aviation or the internet.

    Honest people can reach different opinions on all these things.

    The Constitution is whatever the Supreme Court says, as the man said, for better and worse.

  119. Then a Supreme Court decision would never be reversed like Dred Scott.

  120. “Then a Supreme Court decision would never be reversed like Dred Scott.”

    It can be reversed. But only by another Supreme Court decision or a change to either legislation or the constitutional source document.

  121. Just as the FACTS show that out of police involved killings in the process of arrest 2 whites die for every black that dies, but don’t let facts like these ever get in the way of your delusion.”

    Patrick playing his raw numbers not proportionate numbers game again.

  122. They threw frozen bottles of water at him, which is the same as throwing bricks.

    Not according to this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/02/trump-washington-walk-to-the-church-photo-op

    Or this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_photo_op_at_St._John%27s_Church

    Or this:

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/02/867705160/he-did-not-pray-fallout-grows-from-trump-s-photo-op-at-st-john-s-church

    Or this:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/06/08/timeline-trump-church-photo-op/?arc404=true

    Or this:

    https://news.artnet.com/opinion/trump-photo-op-attacks-journalists-photographers-1878630

    Or this, which actually says that Barr walked up to the police line to observe the protesters, yet somehow missed all the bottles of frozen water being thrown at him:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/trump-st-johns-church-bible.html

    Or this:

    https://time.com/5846449/trump-church-protests/

    Want me to continue? That’s only the first page of a quick Google search, but not a single article on that first page makes a mention of Barr being attacked, or the protesters being violent or riotous. The closest any of them get to that is to say the protest was ‘mostly peaceful’, but gives no indication of what that might mean. You would think that the Attorney General being attacked by a mob would get at least a mention in one of these articles, but no. The only mention he gets is the one I mentioned above, about him walking to the edge of the police line to observe the protesters.

    But this is exactly what I meant with my

    Do I take the side of the Cop over an animal…. Yes I do.

    And… you lost me, right at the start.

    It is a completely alien concept to you that a police officer might be in the wrong. Charles said you give them ‘the benefit of the doubt’, but that isn’t true. There is no doubt whatsoever in your mind that, no matter what action the police take, it is the correct action, even if that action ends with the death of the suspect.
    Like above – the evidence is there, clear as day, from multiple sources, that AG Barr WAS NOT attacked by ANYONE. But you insist that he was, and say that his security detail “should have dropped them on the spot.”

    You advocated, from almost your very first comment on this subject, that peaceful protesters should have been shot, and you have spent the rest of the time attempting to justify an unjustifiable position.

    No amount of ‘that’s just the way I am’ bullshit will take that away, or lessen it. You believe that fellow US citizens, practising the rights apparently given to them by a supreme being, should be shot for doing so.

    The rest of your comment isn’t worth responding to, given the seriousness of this one point. If you won’t be honest in the face of overwhelming evidence regarding this, why would you be honest about anything else?

  123. Proportionate numbers by race if they are to mean anything have to take into account the numbers of authentic encounters blacks and whites have with the police in the first place.

    –Not– random stops of any kind, but where the police have interacted with the person for legitimate reasons – ie a crime has been committed, it is suspected that a crime has been committed, there is a mental health episode.

    Looking at raw numbers is simplistic and doesn’t say anything.

    The number of Asian Americans who are shot by police or who are arrested by them is very low. I’ve never heard of a Chinese person here being shot by the cops, but I am sure that it has happened. So low that there is no reason to look it up. This does not mean that the police are unfairly lenient to Chinese Americans.

  124. Of course that wouldn’t give a complete picture either, as it assumes that all police interactions are proportional. If blacks are stopped more often by cops (even for legitimate reasons) that whites (who would have given cops the same legitimate reasons) then even a racially proportionate level of violence by police would be skewed towards more violence against blacks.

  125. That doesn’t make sense.

    I’m not talking about any random stops

    Let’s just talk about drive-by shooting incidents

    If there are proportionately more blacks stopped by the police because more are involved in such incidents than are say the Amish, How is that racist

  126. “How is that racist”

    It isn’t. However are you suggesting that whites are as likely as blacks to say be stopped in New York for quality of life crimes?

    And are you suggesting that lethal force is only use in the arrest of serious crimes?

  127. I support the minimal use of effective force in all situations, and no force whenever possible to do.

    I agree that police training and tactics and the selection of police officers needs to be closely reviewed. I’ve said that many times.

    In some of these cases, I think that police are on trial for doing what they were trained to do.

    In many of these cases, the ” victims ” did one or two wrong things that created the initial situation, or that escalated the situation in the first place.

    I’d put a great many things on the table in discussing the larger problem. I don’t think that this place is the forum for a much larger discussion, certainly not now.

  128. “In many of these cases, the ” victims ” did one or two wrong things that created the initial situation, or that escalated the situation in the first place.”

    You have regularly put forward the argument that the cause of riots is rioters. If people didn’t riot then there would be no riots. Which is true. It ignores all of the other aspects of it, about escalation, provocation etc… but it is true. Riots are caused by rioters. Police shootings are caused by police officers shooting people. If police officers didn’t shoot people there would be no police shootings.

    You can’t have it both ways. You can’t ignore provocation and escalation and blame it all on the primary actor in one situation, while granting absolution to the primary actor in another situation due to provocation and escalation by others.

  129. “In some of these cases, I think that police are on trial for doing what they were trained to do.”

    And you’ll find it is those more supportive of the police advancing the bad apples argument. And so that is why movements like Black Lives Matter are needed. Because in many of these awful, should-be criminal situations, police are doing what they were trained to do. Thus the issue isn’t a few racist bad apple cops. The problem is a systemic problem throughout the entire police force.

  130. A mutual friend of mine and Paul’s, whose name I won’t mention here, but who Paul (I believe) christened ‘Quantum Drip’, escaped this possibly happening to him.

    An absolute gentleman and literally a scholar.

    Above doesn’t even begin to expalain the horror of what happened Seimi.

    The person in question was a bit tiddly and got a ‘black hack’ ,the communal taxi service which opeartes in working class Republican & loyalist areas of Belfast, late one winter’s evening on the Falls Road. He climbed into the back of the taxi, which is designed to take five passangers and is seperated by a perspex partition from the driver and a driver in the front, which was empty except him. In the front were a driver and further passanger and the taxi took off up the Falls rd.

    About approximately a mile into the journey the black taxi veered a sharp left into Broadway Road, the stretch of road for half a mile or so which separates the Falls from the hard line loyalist ‘Village’ area and our friend immediately sobered very quickly when he realised that his taxi journey was in fact a kidnap. He jumped from the seat and as he did the front passanger turned around and shot him five times in the face through the partition.

    Despite being gravely wounded our friend somehow managed to open the back door of the taxi and fling himself from the moving vehicle, run a short distance and hide in a garden. The taxi carried on for a short distance, did a U turn and came back to the spot where our friend had escaped from, stopped, and the two men got out and began searching for him. As the assassins were searching for him our friend could hear them talking as they searched until after a short while the shooter said to the driver, ‘forget it. I put five in the bastard’s face. He’s going nowhere’ and they got back into the taxi and left. One of the entrances to the Royal Hospital, a world excellence centre in trauma treatment, is on Broadway Road and our friend waited for half an hour until he was sure they had left and amazingly made his way to the hospital where he was immediately taken for surgery to rebuild his face.

    A few years later the IRA executed Lenny ‘the Master Butcher’ Murphy, leader of the notoriously barbaric ‘Shankill Butchers’ loyalist sectarian death squad:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers

    When his photo was shown on television our friend recognised him as the passanger of the taxi who shot him in the face five times.

    I defy anyone here to live with such savage violence and say it wouldn’t have an effect on them.

    My trip to Belfast has totally changed my view on Irish Republicanism and the reclaiming of human rights, dignity, and equality for Catholics in N.I.

    Maybe next time you could also invite Pat to give him an insight in order that he might actually know what he’s talking about when he refers to the Irish conflict, Charles.

  131. In some of these cases, I think that police are on trial for doing what they were trained to do.

    Yes, that’ll be the ‘warrior policing’ concept, rife withing police departments which I have raised here a few times and which has repeatedly been ignored by those who think the police can do no wrong.

  132. Been away a few days and just read through this. I have nothing to add here except to say what an amazing thread. A bit like a Picasso painting, somehow ugly and chaotic but beautifully magnificent at the same time:)

  133. lol

    The American Police are the greatest trained in the world and have more practice at actual violent engagement as any in the world.

    If you look back through the many threads on this repetitive subject you will find the HARD NUMBERS which are to much for some of you to handle because they aren’t spun to prove imaginary racism exists as a systemic problem.

    The clash of views playing out here are just different perspectives of reality. Someone once said on certain subjects how smart you are depends on what part of the country your standing in… this also applies to the world. You do not gain this knowledge through headlines.

    Just as I could never understand what seimi paul and all those in that area and that time went through from the written word, neither can you about now and here.

    Your simply just not part of it, as I was never part of your sh**.

    The majority of my family is in police work, the do it in 4 major cities in the united states. Right now everyone of them has bullseye and a bounty on their head as well as threats to each and every member of their families.

    What is their crime….. their crime is they put on a badge to protect and serve their fellow citizens from the animals. Risk comes with the job, police work in the US is more dangerous than active duty in the military anywhere in the world. That risk is accepted.

    I’ve got nieces and nephews that have had to be sent from their home to stay elsewhere because antifa/blm/animals found out where their police officer parent lived and attacked the house.

    And you know what….. nobody from my family is tracking these animals on a personal hunt for a little “righteous justice” for attacking the family. No they took evidence at the scene, filled the reports and moved the family. When the animals are caught they will be prosecuted, and then they will be Convict…. because that’s the RIGHT WAY to do it.

    I am done on this thread. Kiss my ass or kiss my ring either one doesn’t matter on this topic I’m right, you’re wrong no debate needed.

  134. The American Police are the greatest trained in the world and have more practice at actual violent engagement as any in the world

    As comparitively shown to you numerous times the first clause of that sentence is simply false. The second clause is open to debate.

    You’ve got a huge pro police bias which is alright as long as you’re honest at coming at situations where you admit that you will always give the police a huge benefit of the doubt and excuse their wrong doing every time.

  135. Patrick

    Isn’t kiss my ass or kiss my ring the same thing ? I wouldn’t want to place my lips on the wrong article if invited 🙂

  136. As good Catholics we’ve all kissed the Bishop’s ring.

  137. ..or tried to touch his staff 🙂

  138. Quickly reading through what you wrote, PaTroll, 99% of it was completely irrelevant to the topic in hand.
    You seem to be deliberately misunderstanding what has been written here, by myself and others.
    And stop with the over-dramatic ‘every one of them has a target and a bounty on their heads…’ No they don’t. A bounty? Have we gone from a Hallmark movie to a Western movie now?
    If you’re done with this thread, that’s fine. We can take your departure as an admission that your argument has been defeated. Toodle pip 😊

  139. Seimi nice try…….. you couldn’t defeat my arguments on your best day and this thread was far from that.

    You laugh at the fact that my family members have been attacked in their home….. but we are to feel anguish and rage that you and yours were attacked in theirs.

    Thank you for showing just how far up your ass your head is.

    I shared those private bits of fact in regard to my family to point out to you that cops AND THEIR FAMILIES right now are being targeted in their homes as you have opined and whined about it happening to yours.

    But do you catch that? NO you accuse me of writing a western. It’s reason to commit terror by you and yours but it’s funny because it’s happening to cops…..

    such a fool skippy

  140. O/T El Paso Catholic Cathedral vandalized and statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus pulled down and destroyed.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/sacred-heart-of-jesus-statue-destroyed-in-texas-cathedral

  141. You laugh at the fact that my family members have been attacked in their home

    No I don’t. Stop making things up.

    but we are to feel anguish and rage that you and yours were attacked in theirs.

    I haven’t asked you or anyone else to feel anguish for me. Stop making things up.

    Thank you for showing just how far up your ass your head is.

    I didn’t show that. Stop making things up.

    I shared those private bits of fact in regard to my family to point out to you that cops AND THEIR FAMILIES right now are being targeted in their homes as you have opined and whined about it happening to yours.

    I haven’t opined or whined about anything. Stop making things up.

    But do you catch that? NO you accuse me of writing a western.

    No I didn’t. I compared your over-dramatic statement that members of your family have bounties on their heads to something akin a Western. Stop making things up.

    It’s reason to commit terror by you and yours but it’s funny because it’s happening to cops…..

    I have not ‘committed terror’ anywhere, nor are attacks on police funny. Stop making things up.

    And finally:

    I am done on this thread.

    Stop making things up.

  142. damn a Jesus statue in Texas…… that wasn’t done by a local legal or illegal…

    Hey Charles do you still have my email?

    If not say so I’ll send it to you, whenever you write your piece on your visit send it I’ll put up with any pics if you choose also.

  143. No I didn’t. I compared your over-dramatic statement that members of your family have bounties on their heads to something akin a Western. Stop making things up.

    You don’t believe that right now BLM have bounties on the heads of Cops?

    You say that me exposing my families privacy to try to get you to relate and understand that what you went through my family is going through right now. Is a Lie.

    They attacked the house with women and children in it. The children are living at their grandmothers and the mrs has shotguns staged around the house when my cousin is on duty…..

    But I’m lying, and so what they’re cops

    we’re done.

    for real.

  144. I didn’t say – anywhere – that you were lying about members of your family being attacked.

    You don’t believe that right now BLM have bounties on the heads of Cops?

    No, I don’t believe that. Can you provide any evidence – any at all – to show that BLM have bounties on any police officers? And not anecdotal evidence – actual, rock-solid evidence. If you do, I will condemn them. But I don’t believe they have bounties out on anybody.

    You say that me exposing my families privacy to try to get you to relate and understand that what you went through my family is going through right now. Is a Lie.

    No, I don’t say that. Where do you think I said that? And I’m not asking you to relate to what we went through. I wrote about some of my experiences to show what it was like to live with a government and police force who were our enemies. I didn’t write any of it to gain your sympathy or rubbish or dismiss anything you may have gone through. I think you are grasping the wrong ends of so many sticks here.

    But I’m lying, and so what they’re cops

    Are you reading a different blog from me? I didn’t say anything of the sort. Seriously – stop making things up! I haven’t accused you of lying about the attacks on members of your family. In my previous post, I asked you repeatedly to stop making things up, because you were clearly reading what I wrote and attributing your own meaning to everything I said. But I didn’t, at any stage, say you were lying about something as serious as that. So please – stop making things up!

    we’re done.

    for real.

    For real for real? Does that mean we’re not going to the Prom together? Well that’s fine, because George McFly asked me to go with him, and maybe now I will!

    Seriously though: if we’re ‘done’, and it’s ‘for real’, then it’s for a bunch of made up, incorrect reasons.

  145. Patrick, I checked for your e-mail and I still have it. Thanks for the reminder!

  146. no problem

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