web analytics

Tick Tock

By Patrick Van Roy On September 24th, 2020

Former CIA Director John Brennan personally edited a crucial section of the intelligence report on Russian interference in the 2016 election and assigned a political ally to take a lead role in writing it after career analysts disputed Brennan’s take that Russian leader Vladimir Putin intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump clinch the White House, according to two senior U.S. intelligence officials who have seen classified materials detailing Brennan’s role in drafting the document. 

The explosive conclusion Brennan inserted into the report was used to help justify continuing the Trump-Russia “collusion” investigation, which had been launched by the FBI in 2016. It was picked up after the election by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who in the end found no proof that Trump or his campaign conspired with Moscow.

The Obama administration publicly released a declassified version of the report — known as the “Intelligence Community Assessment on Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent Elections (ICA)” — just two weeks before Trump took office, casting a cloud of suspicion over his presidency. Democrats and national media have cited the report to suggest Russia influenced the 2016 outcome and warn that Putin is likely meddling again to reelect Trump.

The ICA is a key focus of U.S. Attorney John Durham’s ongoing investigation into the origins of the “collusion” probe. He wants to know if the intelligence findings were juiced for political purposes.

100 Responses to “Tick Tock”

  1. So lemme get this Patrick. Russia hacked the DNC emails because they thought it would help Hillary to win? And that’s also why Trump urged them to “Hack some more”?

  2. Russia didn’t hack the emails Peter.

  3. LOL

    “A self-styled hacker going by the moniker “Guccifer 2.0” claimed to be the source of the leaks;[44][45] WikiLeaks did not reveal its source.[24] Cybersecurity experts and firms, including CrowdStrike, Fidelis Cybersecurity, Mandiant, SecureWorks, and ThreatConnect, and the editor for Ars Technica, stated the leak was part of a series of cyberattacks on the DNC committed by two Russian intelligence groups.[46][47][48][49][50][51] U.S. intelligence agencies also stated (with “high confidence”[52]) that the Russian government was behind the theft of emails and documents from the DNC, according to reports in The New York Times and The Washington Post.[52][5

    On October 7, 2016, the United States Department of Homeland Security and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence stated that the US intelligence community was confident that the Russian government directed the breaches and the release of the obtained or allegedly obtained material in an attempt to “… interfere with the US election process.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak#Perpetrators

  4. Pat’s so cute when he keeps flogging this dead rhinocerous.

  5. Want to bet this offer had strings attached? As in no pardon if Assange named a Russian source for the leaks:

    “President Trump offered to pardon Julian Assange if the WikiLeaks founder would provide the source for the hacking of Democratic National Committee emails before the 2016 presidential election, a London court was told on Friday.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/watch/trump-offered-to-pardon-assange-in-exchange-for-dnc-2016-email-hack-source-lawyer-says/vp-BB19bnnQ

  6. We have one guilty plea that invalidates all 4 FISA warrants, we now have evidence of in the public domain that one of the frames main architechs Brennen falsified intelligence reports used in the frame…..

    but it’s dead horse because no one is leaking anything to the NYTs.

    Barrack Obama tried to frame Donald Trump with fake russian collusion while destroying evidence of Hillary Clintons crimes.

    They used the FBI/DOJ/NSA/CIA to frame an innocent man while covering for a guilty woman.

    This Horse hasn’t left the gate yet and is very far from dead.

  7. Peter Assange your spy hero has said from day one of their publication that the emails did not come from Russia or any government source….. but don’t let even what the scumbag himself says. You know even better than him where he got them…..

  8. OT

    The cheating begins……

    Several military ballots cast for President Donald Trump have been recovered after federal authorities opened an unspecified investigation regarding mail-in ballots in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania.

    The U.S. Attorney’s Office Middle District of Pennsylvania said in a Thursday statement:
    On Monday, September 21, 2020, at the request of Luzerne County District Attorney Stefanie Salavantis, the Office of the United States Attorney along with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Scranton Resident Office, began an inquiry into reports of potential issues with a small number of mail-in ballots at the Luzerne County Board of Elections.

    Since Monday, FBI personnel working together with the Pennsylvania State Police have conducted numerous interviews and recovered and reviewed certain physical evidence. Election officials in Luzerne County have been cooperative. At this point we can confirm that a small number of military ballots were discarded. Investigators have recovered nine ballots at this time. Some of those ballots can be attributed to specific voters and some cannot. All nine ballots were cast for presidential candidate Donald Trump.

    It is presently unclear how many ballots were discarded.

    The development comes as U.S. Postal Service officials are investigating trails of mail discovered in a ditch in Greenville, Wisconsin, on Tuesday. In a statement, the Outagamie County Sheriff’s Office said the three trays were found in a at 8 a.m. near the Appleton International Airport. A USPS spokesman confirmed to FOX 11 that the mail included absentee ballots.

    “The United States Postal Inspection Service immediately began investigating and we reserve further comment on this matter until that is complete,” USPS spokesman Bob Sheehan said.

  9. Peter Assange your spy hero has said from day one of their publication that the emails did not come from Russia or any government source….. but don’t let even what the scumbag himself says. You know even better than him where he got them…..

    Patrick

    And you believe Assange? A few years back you were calling for his assassination when he skipped bail in England. I know the DNC email hack was from Russia. US intelligence agencies know it. If you know different please enlighten me from my darkness. And post evidence. Was it China? Was it France?

  10. Anyway Patrick, it’s good to see that the GOP will accept the result on 3 November, even if Trump won’t. I’m just wondering whose side you will be on if there’s a party split on 4 November? Becuse it’s nailed on that Trump will not concede whatever the result and there will be plenty in his party who will back him to the hilt, maybe even a majority of GOP senators and congress members. McConnell could regret this statement when the tumbrils roll in November:

    “Republican leader Mitch McConnell has said there will be an “orderly” post-election transition after the president questioned the process’s integrity. The top US senator said that, regardless of who wins the 3 November presidential election, there will be a peaceful inauguration on 20 January. A day earlier, President Donald Trump refused to commit to this, saying “we’ll have to see what happens”…

    Every losing presidential candidate has conceded. If Mr Trump were to refuse to accept the result of the election, it would take the country into uncharted territory. Mr Biden has suggested that should this happen, the military could remove Mr Trump from the White House…”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54285869

  11. No Peter I don’t believe Assange, but you do….. you believe his bullshit and you believe he’s not a spy. You believe everything he says EXCEPT that he didn’t get the emails from the Russians.

    What I believe is Assange is long overdue for a snipers bullet and still believe no matter what that will be how he ends.

  12. As for the election…. there are times when I seriously think you do have a mental deficiency Peter.

    The Democrats have spent 4yrs refusing to accept the last election. They have already put in place a plan to steal the election through mail in fraud. Watch Pa and Mich on Nov 3rd that’s where it will take place.

    I will tell you this and Trump has nothing to do with it…. If Trump Loses on Nov 3rd he loses, IF he wins on Nov 3rd and they use mail in ballots to say Biden won… lock your windows and bar the doors because Civil War will break out in the US.

    And the people who will be riled up won’t be throwing rocks, frozen bottles, or lighting fires and looting……

  13. Silly talk. Patrick. There will be no civil war in the USA. There may be many numerous low level protests and grumbling around the election but the US will remain intact, the new POTUS will be sworn in in January and everything will go on largely as normal.

  14. //There may be many numerous low level protests and grumbling around the election but the US will remain intact,//

    It could be more than that. A loon or two with a SLR letting off steam at some “liberal” venue, which includes places like the local McDonalds. There are enough crazies in the Trump camp, and in the US crazies are more likely to be heavily armed than the sane majority.

  15. I will tell you this and Trump has nothing to do with it…. If Trump Loses on Nov 3rd he loses, IF he wins on Nov 3rd and they use mail in ballots to say Biden won

    So mail-in ballots shouldn’t be counted? It’s quite likely that Trump will “win” on 3 November but if all the mail-ins aren’t counted until a couple of days after that are you saying that Trump should be declared the winner on the night of 3 November and all counting of mail-ins shoule be stopped?

    I assume that’s your line, because it’s certainly Trump’s line and I’ve never known you two to disagree about anything.

  16. Trump’s team have already war-gamed an appeal to the SCOTUS which is no doubt another reason for the indecent haste to get another GOP judge in place.

    The scenario is this:
    1. Trump is ahead in the college when the count of ballots cast on 3 November winds up.
    2. When all mail-ins uncounted on 3 November get counted in the next few days, Biden wins in the college. Biden also wins the popular vote by five million.
    3. Trump appeals to the SCOTUS and Clarence and beer-boy the rest of the gang decide that there is nothing about mail-ins in the constitution and declare Trump the winner by 6-3.

    It’s by no means an improbable scenario and I have no doubt that Patrick and most of the GOP base will be totally content if that’s how it plays out.

  17. Noel

    I count mass shooting events as “low level grumbling”. After all, they are so common in the USA they barely register as anything to write home about 🙂

  18. Colm, Tom Friedman, of the New York Times, talked of open Civil War on CNN the other night if Trump refuses to go. I think he’s off the mark, but Patrick is not alone in his assertions.

  19. Trump does not have the country’s interests in mind.

    He will have an extremely hard time accepting defeat, one based on his poor performance on the job, after Obama served two terms and remains popular nationally.

    He is providing dog whistles to the gun toting skells, and will choose to take the country down with him if he can.

  20. Even if Trump refuses to go, what does that mean ? He will simply be made to look foolish and power and authority will just leave him. The US isn’t a banana republic. He won’t have sections of the military willing to put tanks on the white house lawns for him. He will leave if he loses, maybe sulkily, but he will go and there will be no civil war regardless of who wins and how closely.

  21. He has high potential to be universally regarded as the worst president in history.

    He’s very close to that already.

  22. Phantom

    Do you agree with my 9.32?

    I really think that’s the game plan. Trump knows that the mail-ins are about 70:30 in favour of the Dems so the strategy will be to get them disallowed if they haven’t been counted by 9 am on 4 November. And a GOP SCOTUS will be happy to help.

  23. We’ll see Phantom. This election is fast becoming a referendum on Democratic misrule of our cities and states, IMO, and less about Trump.

  24. Phantom

    He would regard that as an achievement. he doesn’t do mediocre. If he’s gonna go down in history as a bad president he would have to be number one in that chart. Third worst president wouldn’t do at all 🙂

  25. Trump has been constantly attacking mail in votes for a long time now.

    Yes Peter he would do that

    I can’t say what the Supreme Court will do – Thomas is a dime store mute dummy, I don’t know about Kavanaugh – but Trump absolutely would take the country down with him rather than admit legitimate defeat.

    His legacy will be failure on a level not seen in our lifetime, and he can’t possibly admit that.

    If the Dems didn’t have their own major moral and competence problems, I could have seen Trump losing un losable states like Texas. As it stands now I see a major electoral defeat for Trump at this point, with him refusing to accept the verdict of the voters.

    More people will vote by mail in a Covid year. It’s no conspiracy.

    I personally know people who are voting by mail this year for the first time, in three states.

  26. Peter

    I think you may be on to something, but a legal challenge that goes to SCOTUS would have to be narrowly defined, as in Bush v Gore. I have no doubt that we won’t have a winner on Nov. 4th.

    Another aspect is that mail in ballots are in mostly heavily Dem states anyway. The only ones that are going to be challenged are swing states like Michigan or Penn.

  27. BTW, TX Gov. Abbott has extended early voting by one week this year. Hardly voter suppression by a Republican!

  28. Jake Corman is the Republican majority leader in the Pennsylvania state Senate.

    On the 60 minutes tv program this past Sunday, he said that the PA system for mail in system works properly.

    “I’m not going to speak for the president. That’s — that’s you know — that’s his job,” Corman said. “My job is to make sure the Pennsylvania system works. I think we are doing that. We have done that.”

    I think that people should vote in person if they’re comfortable doing that – it makes the count much easier – but the campaign against mail voting is a bag of lies and bullshit as promulgated by a conspiracy Alex Jones president

    https://www.centredaily.com/news/politics-government/election/article245896015.html

  29. BTW, TX Gov. Abbott has extended early voting by one week this year. Hardly voter suppression by a Republican!

    Republican Governor gives Texans unfair, one week advantage in electoral race! 🙂

  30. Another aspect is that mail in ballots are in mostly heavily Dem states anyway. The only ones that are going to be challenged are swing states like Michigan or Penn.

    Yes Charles. It will be a re-run of Florida in 2000 but this time maybe six states will be involved.

    Trump has led an administration of chaos, so a few weeks of chaos in November will be a suitable if appalling conclusion. But I fear that if he gets his case to SCOTUS they will find a way to give it to him.

  31. Yes Seimi, the obvious solution is for mail-ins to vote early. But even that might not work if their votes aren’t counted until 3 November. Trump will claim that any mail-ins not couned by early 4 November should be disregarded, no matter when they were received.

  32. People should vote in person if they can.

    The encouraging of more voting by mail is exceptionally bad policy.

    The chain of custody of the physical ballot is vastly better when the ballot cast in a designated location.

    And if there is no paper ballot, that’s another big problem.

  33. I think that if Trump were to lose, but refused to accept the decision, would make great TV and could ultimately be what he preferred to do anyway, if only for the publicity.

    Imagine the scene: Crowds protesting outside the White House; inside, Trump and his most trusted lackeys advisers sit, in silence. A small nerve twitches randomly below the ex-president’s eye, and one hand fidgets with the Stars and Stripes badge on his lapel, while the other hovers over the switch…
    Outside, the roar of the noisy, but still peaceful crowd, grows in volume, and the ex-president’s nerves crack. As his trembling finger stabs down on the switch, he utters the dreaded words,
    “That’s it! I’m switching off the lights! Everyone into the cellar! Barr, is there anything we can do about these protesters? Can we shoot them!?”
    AG Barr nervously sips at his iced water…

    Oh wait, that already happened, didn’t it? 🙂

  34. I think that if Trump were to lose, but refused to accept the decision, would make great TV and could ultimately be what he preferred to do anyway, if only for the publicity.

    No Seimi, this is a deadly serious game. If Trump gets the election result overturned by SCOTUS, which is a definite possibility, the world’s oldest democracy will have fallen to a judicial coup d’etat. Other authoritarians who lead democracies will note the result and act accordingly. I’m thinking Hungary and Poland for starters, but also other authoritarian wannabes like Salvini in Italy and Le Pen in France. I’m leaving out non-democracies like Turkey and Russia and Belarus (authoritarian oligarchies) and of course the UK (undemocratic voting system).

  35. Trump, like all authoritarians, accuses others of what he himself is guilty of.

    So, yes.

  36. Peter

    I do know just how serious it could be and, although I’m being a bit flippant above, I could see it playing out like that, with Trump refusing to stand down. If it did come to it, and SCOTUS did rule in his favour, how well would that go down with the average American?
    PaTroll has already hinted that if it goes the other way and Trump loses because of a ‘rigged’ postal system, that they will take to the streets, and it won’t be with bottles of frozen water etc (like the ones not thrown at AG Barr)

  37. I love they way all you euroweenies have Trump as the one who will not accept the results of the election. You and the dems stated the same bullshit last election because he said the exact same words.

    The Democrats have set up an unconstitutional scam of universal mail in ballots. They’ve hired 600 Attorneys rented office space and put a team in every state and every territory of the United States to FIGHT THE ELECTION RESULTS.

    For 4 years the Democrats have refused to accept the result of the LAST ELECTION. They tried to frame him with phony Russian Collusion (a made up crime to begin with) and they even did an Impeachment over a perfectly fine phone call….. all of which have failed.

    How has Trump done as President…. Well according to Phantom and all of you well he just sucks and is the worst President in American History.

    Now I didn’t want Trump for President I wanted Cruz, but he came in second. So I voted for Trump because the choice was him or the beast. So did 64 million others. Enough to give him an electoral Landslide.

    As President however there is only one President in the past 100 years that even comes close to having served better in the Job and that’s Ronald Reagan.

    Trump has put 2 Constitutionalists on the Supreme court. He has put 216 Constitutional Judges on the Federal Bench, He has reestablished America’s International Economic Superiority, He has spent 3 Trillion Dollars restoring the American Military from the destruction of Barack Obama, He has negotiated peace between Israel and more Arab Nations than any world leader in History, and he has brought us to the point of being the Worlds number one producer of both Oil and LNG.

    As for not leaving if he loses, if he loses unlike the Democrats he will walk away and it will be over. However…….. If he wins and then the Dems try to STEAL the Election with millions of “Mail in Ballots” it’s not Trump you have to worry about. It’s middle class America that you have to worry about.

    If the Election is attempted to be stolen the threat to the Government will be real and it won’t be the urban business centers where you will see the violence. It will be in every State Capital, and every Government Building in every state.

    This is not a threat….. this is fact.

    The riots and bullshit you’ve seen for the last 4 months have been the cartoon before the movie. The Working Middle Class left and right are the heaviest armed group of people in the world and have held their powder dry over the last 6 months IF and I say IF Trump wins Nov 3rd and the democrats implement their plan to steal it with mail in ballots… the Nation will erupt in violence.

    It’ll start slow but will escalate and get out of hand. We honestly could have a second civil war.

    If you care about the US, which most of you really don’t you will pray that one of these candidates wins in a landslide on the 3rd.

  38. He didn’t win any electoral landslide.

    But keep repeating that.

  39. You are hopeless morons.

    An undeniable coup has just been made public (which you hoped would succeed) and all you can say is that the greatest ever jobs president is the worst president?

    Look at yourselves!

  40. Just announced Ron Paul has had a stroke.

    It was also just Confirmed that Amy Coney Barret will be the next Supreme Court Justice.

  41. 304-227….. that’s a Landslide.

  42. I am sorry to hear that about Mr. Paul.

    I disagree with him on political things, but he’s honest and by all accounts was a good doctor.

    Hope that he recovers.

  43. Biden has a team of over 600 lawyers at the ready. If he prevails in the courts, will it be considered a judicial coup d’etat? Whoever wins, the other side is going to say that “we waz robbed!”

  44. They say he’s doing well Phantom, but a stroke at 80…. I don’t like the guy, but I don’t want to see him suffer.

  45. Whoever wins, the other side is going to say that “we waz robbed!”

    you got that right Charles

  46. Cross posted with Pat about Biden’s 600 lawyers. Great minds and all that! 🙂

  47. I actually do like him!

    Ron Paul back in the day

    You get better, Mr Paul

  48. The Democrats have set up an unconstitutional scam of universal mail in ballots.

    Thanks Patrick, you have confirmed my theory 100%. Mail-in ballots will be disregarded, because they are not in the constitition. That will be Trump’s case and as I guessed you are 100% on board.

  49. Peter

    The Constitution is the ONLY thing that matters.

  50. I think Pat’s important distinction here is “universal” mail in ballot, like in Nevada. They just mail them out willy-nilly.

  51. Biden has a team of over 600 lawyers at the ready. If he prevails in the courts, will it be considered a judicial coup d’etat? Whoever wins, the other side is going to say that “we waz robbed!”

    Charles

    There is a simple answer to this non-problem. Count all the valid votes in each state and declare the true winner in each state and let the college vote to elect the president.

    That’s how it was always done in the past and that’s how the constitution (which Patrick claims to revere) says it should be done. But now he seems to be saying that mail-in votes shouldn’t count. Am I right Patrick?

  52. The Constitution is the ONLY thing that matters.

    Really Patrick? You seem to be saying that mail-in votes are illegitimate, but maybe you only mean mail-in votes for Biden?

  53. We agree Peter count all VALID ballots.

    There are only 2 types of VALID Ballots In Person, and Absentee…. Mail in unverified without an ID and a MATCHED signature (how you get an absentee ballot) is not valid.

  54. Peter

    You’ve hit the nail on the head. What constitutes a valid vote? It seems to vary from state to state and county to county. That’s what the 600 lawyers are for. Getting local judges to keep certain polls open longer, counting certain ballots, but not others (as in Bush v Gore) etc.
    The devil is in the details.

  55. We agree Peter count all VALID ballots.

    Without time limit Patrick? Trump will be demanding a count deadline on 4 November even for ballots received well before polling day and I guess you will support that?

  56. Charles

    I really fear for US democracy. There is no guarantee that the elected winner will be accepted by the losing side. The grounds of dispute are already clear. Trump will probably be ahead on the night and will claim victory. The valid mail-in votes (if they all get counted) will very likely give a win to Biden within two or three days. And Trump will then go to a GOP SCOTUS to get the result overturned, and may well succeed. At that point the US will cease to be a democracy.

  57. Don’t soldiers etc posted overseas get mail-in votes? Are they part of this scam as well?

    Look, Whether you believe Trump is the 2nd greatest president ever, or whatever, you shouldn’t get so annoyed when other people post their opinions on him. I would say that a sizable majority across Europe view him in a similar fashion: Loud, crude, un-statesmanlike, dishonest, untrustworthy, divisive etc etc.
    But none of that should matter to you, because none of us can vote for or against him. All we have is our opinions, and in Pete Moore’s case, a bit of a man-crush.
    Let’s face it – he wasn’t even your first choice!
    This is a nasty, spiteful presidential campaign, just like last time. The Tweets are personal, the attacks relentless. It’s also being held at the worst possible time. I agree with Charles, that whoever loses will cry ‘Foul!’, but that doesn’t matter. Everyone kinda expected that, and by everyone, I mean the entire world, and by crying ‘Foul!’ we all mean Trump, because he is so childish and spoilt, that it’s the sort of thing everyone (the whole world again) expects from him. From his early insistence that his hands were ‘normal-sized’, to his claims about the crowd at his inauguration being bigger than Obama’s, right through to his ‘Stable Genius’, ‘some way of getting that disinfectant into the body…’ and his tear-gassing of peaceful protestors so he could have a photo taken, people expect nothing but the worst from him.
    People are genuinely worried that he might get in for another four years.
    You talk about his achievements at home – bringing jobs back, setting up arms trade deals with the funders of 9/11 Saudi Arabia etc. Some of these things may well, in your eyes, make him a good president, but how good is a president who divides his country so starkly? There is no talk of bringing the other side in, of making peace with them, of supporting them and listening to their needs. It has been three and a half years of attack as a form of defence, and that’s just against his own citizens!
    Honestly, your blind worshipping, subservience and defending of the man and the mess he makes is unnecessary, demeaning and a bit cringy.

  58. Well said Seimi, but you are pissing in the wind if you expect Patrick to budge one millimeter in his Trump-worship.

  59. Seimi, on September 26th, 2020 at 12:23 AM Said: Edit Comment
    Don’t soldiers etc posted overseas get mail-in votes? Are they part of this scam as well?

    They get Absentee Ballots issued to the individual with a valid military ID and they sign for it wath a matching Signature.

  60. Patrick

    Can you reply to my 12.15? Should there be a time limit for counting validated mail-in votes received by polling day?

  61. What constitutes a valid vote? It seems to vary from state to state and county to county. That’s what the 600 lawyers are for. Getting local judges to keep certain polls open longer, counting certain ballots, but not others (as in Bush v Gore) etc.

    Charles, if that’s the way ‘the greatest country on Earth’ runs its elections, then there should be 6000 lawyers looking at this! State to state and county to county!? For a national vote?? Why doesn’t the same rule apply across all 50 states for voting? That is madness, and you have set yourselves up for legal mayhem.

    I’ve said before – the next president, whoever he might be, should make it an immediate, first year priority, to fix all the multiple things that are wrong with your voting system. Postal votes, disenfranchised citizens, the lot.
    The only other places you seem to see this much shit around an election is in war-torn African countries and similarly run countries in South America.

  62. They get Absentee Ballots issued to the individual with a valid military ID and they sign for it wath a matching Signature.

    And, I just want to be clear here – you do know that we are currently in the middle of a global situation here? One where many people can’t get out to vote? You know that, right?

    Why should some soldier, sitting in a foxhole 15,000 miles from home, be guaranteed the right to vote for the person who will send him on his next tour, but Joe Sixpack from Philly, who can’t get to the polling station because his legs won’t allow him to, have his identical postal form to the soldier rejected, because it has a US postmark on it? Are we going to have to add ‘anti-democratic process’ to your long list of ‘antis’? Your extended family of antis just keeps growing!

  63. But Seimi as a NON-American what any of you think, feel, or incline is irrelevant you are totally correct. And what any person or country outside of the United States “worries about” is also just as irrelevant.

    but how good is a president who divides his country so starkly? There is no talk of bringing the other side in, of making peace with them, of supporting them and listening to their needs. It has been three and a half years of attack as a form of defence, and that’s just against his own citizens!

    That is the perfect description of the Obama Presidency.

    He set black and white relations back 60yrs.

    He used the IRS to attack American Citizens engaged in Political Speech he didn’t Like.

    He seized control of one sixth of the american economy the healthcare system and locked the doors and changed the locks so that the Republicans could not participate in this seizure of wealth and power and we were told “We have to Pass it before you can see it”

    You are the perfect example of how propaganda can make you believe white is black…..

  64. And, I just want to be clear here – you do know that we are currently in the middle of a global situation here? One where many people can’t get out to vote? You know that, right?

    If you can riot you can vote.

    Why should some soldier, sitting in a foxhole 15,000 miles from home, be guaranteed the right to vote for the person who will send him on his next tour, but Joe Sixpack from Philly, who can’t get to the polling station because his legs won’t allow him to, have his identical postal form to the soldier rejected, because it has a US postmark on it? Are we going to have to add ‘anti-democratic process’ to your long list of ‘antis’? Your extended family of antis just keeps growing!

    Because that “Soldier” sitting anywhere in the world has earned that perk because they are a soldier and we thank them for volunteering… it’s a small perk for putting your life where your patriotism is.

  65. Patrick

    Can you reply to my 12.15? Should there be a time limit for counting validated mail-in votes received by polling day?

    Second request.

  66. But Seimi as a NON-American what any of you think, feel, or incline is irrelevant you are totally correct. And what any person or country outside of the United States “worries about” is also just as irrelevant.

    In that case, why get so annoyed? Although, people around the world being worried about him getting a second term has to do with the possibility of him somehow doing damage to their country, so that part is relevant.

    That is the perfect description of the Obama Presidency.

    No, that is just your opinion. Worldwide opinion of Obama appears to be generally favourable, much more so than that of Trump. In this respect he is a truly global president: he is disliked globally.

    He set black and white relations back 60trs.

    I’m just straight out gonna call bullshit on that one. You’re gonna need a full post on its own to try and prove that. 60 years? No. Way.
    Prove it. Seriously. Prove it. With actual facts and evidence.

    He used the IRS to attack American Citizens engaged in Political Speech he didn’t Like.

    He seized control of one sixth of the american economy the healthcare system and locked the doors and changed the locks so that the Republicans could not participate in this seizure of wealth and power and we were told “We have to Pass it before you can see it”

    These are ‘internal’, national issues, which I am not qualified to comment on. However, based on what you have written so far, I would factor in a substantial margin of error in regards to the veracity of the statements, until shown otherwise.

    You are the perfect example of how propaganda can make you believe white is black…..

    Ah, so now we’re dipping our toes in the waters of personal digs. I am the perfect example of a devilishly handsome, witty, well-read and beloved Irishman. That is all. I can even read for myself, and from what I have read, I have yet to find a more divisive, unlikeable, untrustworthy president than the current incumbent.

  67. 3 days and only because of the pandemic. In a normal election counting the votes takes 3hrs.

    (speaking as someone who has actually counted the votes)

  68. If you can riot you can vote.

    How about you respond to what I wrote, instead of cutting and pasting some soundbite?

    Because that “Soldier” sitting anywhere in the world has earned that perk because they are a soldier and we thank them for volunteering… it’s a small perk for putting your life where your patriotism is.

    I thought America was the land of the free? Somebody used that as the title of a post here, recently…

    There’s a big lady up there in New York. You can’t miss her, she’s wearing a sheet and holding an ice-cream in her hand. Written below her feet are these words:

    “give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free”
    Should we ammend that, and include the words, “…except when it comes to voting, because you might vote for the wrong person, and we can’t be having that. So if you’re tired, huddling or yearning for whatever – fuck you.” ?

  69. 3 days and only because of the pandemic. In a normal election counting the votes takes 3hrs.

    So for the record Patrick, you will not support Trump if he claims victory on the night of 3 November, but if Biden is ahead by 6 November you will accept that your guy has lost?

    I’m not expecting an unequivecal yes.

  70. In that case, why get so annoyed?

    because you’re bad mouthing the President of the United States.

    No, that is just your opinion. Worldwide opinion of Obama appears to be generally favourable, much more so than that of Trump. In this respect he is a truly global president: he is disliked globally.

    No what I wrote were facts and the second part about the rest of the world is irrelevant.

    I’m just straight out gonna call bullshit on that one. You’re gonna need a full post on its own to try and prove that. 60 years? No. Way.
    Prove it. Seriously. Prove it. With actual facts and evidence.

    Hands up don’t shoot…. & if I had a son he would have looked just like him, etc etc etc I could do a post on how he and eric holder destroyed race relations across the entire country, but what purpose would it serve?

    These are ‘internal’, national issues, which I am not qualified to comment on. However, based on what you have written so far, I would factor in a substantial margin of error in regards to the veracity of the statements, until shown otherwise.

    No you’re as good a researcher as I am, you could very easily verify any claim I made. As for the IRS scandal just type in Lois Lerner.

    Ah, so now we’re dipping our toes in the waters of personal digs.

    It wasn’t a personal dig. All you outside the US have that convoluted view, and it’s directly from propaganda.

  71. So for the record Patrick, you will not support Trump if he claims victory on the night of 3 November, but if Biden is ahead by 6 November you will accept that your guy has lost?

    NO

    It ALL depends on the vote count on the 3rd. If it’s close then I’ll wait, but if not and they try to use those 3 days to flip states like Pa Fla and Mich…. then I’ll be screaming fraud.

  72. because you’re bad mouthing the President of the United States.

    Oh bullshit. I think the guy is a prick. So what? Nothing you have ever written here has changed my mind about that, even a little bit, but then again, nothing I have ever written about him has changed your mind, again, not even a little bit. But you’re annoyed because you think I’m badmouthing your second choice for president?

    No what I wrote were facts and the second part about the rest of the world is irrelevant.

    No, you wrote down your opinion, based on your interpretation of the available facts.
    I just want to check – the second part, where I said that Trump is disliked globally, is irrelevant, but when you thought I was badmouthing him, you got annoyed? Do you care so much about what I think? 🙂

    Hands up don’t shoot…. & if I had a son he would have looked just like him, etc etc etc I could do a post on how he and eric holder destroyed race relations across the entire country, but what purpose would it serve?

    I’m not asking you to do a post on him and Eric Holder, but I would really like to see an in-depth post, with facts, evidence, links etc, which would bolster your assertion that Obama set race relations – and I take it you mean only in the USA – back 60 years. It’s a very precise number of years, so I will look forward to a like-for-like comparison between race relations then and race relations now, how they improved in the 60 years up to the end of his second term, and how Barak Obama is responsible for ‘re-setting the clock’ vis-a-vis race relations to 1957. Normally, I would expect a person who made such a claim to need some time to prepare such a detailed, insightful post but, you have made the claim several times recently, that no-one here can hold a candle to you in terms of research, so I’m sure you must have done quite a lot of research on this subject for you to have made such a statement in the first place. Would three days be enough time to pull all that data together?

    No you’re as good a researcher as I am, you could very easily verify any claim I made. As for the IRS scandal just type in Lois Lerner.

    But wait! What’s this? I’m as good a researcher as you are!? When did that happen? I thought I was waaay back in the field, destined to be noted, at best, as an ‘also ran.’ Just the other day, you put that young upstart Seamus in his place regarding his researching! You said something like, he was only the second-best researcher on the site – the intimation being that you were the best (I picked up on that subtle nuance!) – but you didn’t say, ” You, Seamus, would be regarded as the second best researcher on the site, but! In reality, you are third best, for above you stand two giants of research; two behemoths of Google and other non-affiliated search engines. Yes! There are two! I, of course, am one of them. The other? None other than the person you would least suspect! The devilishly-handsome, witty, urbane – Séimí!”
    You didn’t say anything like that. I actually feel a bit hurt.

    By the way, that Lois Lerner one – is she still goin’ out with Superman?

    It wasn’t a personal dig. All you outside the US have that convoluted view, and it’s directly from propaganda

    As you can (hopefully!) see, I’m not taking it personally. I will say this though: I don’t believe any non-Americans here are duped by propaganda. We all read a variety of news sites and sources, and we all have our own opinions. Only two of us here know each other personally for any length of time, yet we all have come to the same conclusions regarding Trump. Propaganda, coincidence, or maybe a basic understanding of the English language and global politics?

  73. NO

    It ALL depends on the vote count on the 3rd.

    That is patently unfair and wrong. It depends on the vote count in total, not by a certain date. It doesn’t matter if Trump wins by a landslide on the 3rd: the election isn’t official until the last vote has been counted and confirmed. Trump could be 5 million in front on the 3rd, but what if 6 million legitimate votes come in by post, all for Biden, but they’re not counted until the 7th? Do they not count then? Does democracy have a ‘use by’ date in the USA now?

  74. lol…. try to compliment a guy….

  75. It ALL depends on the vote count on the 3rd. If it’s close then I’ll wait, but if not and they try to use those 3 days to flip states like Pa Fla and Mich…. then I’ll be screaming fraud.

    Why does it matter if it’s close on the night Patrick? Why not allow enough time for all validated votes to be counted? Isn’t that what a democracy does? Even if it takes a few days, and that’s only because some states refuse to allow postal votes to be counted as and when they arrive in, which can be weeks ahead of polling day.

    You seem to be saying that any vote not counted by midnight on 3 November should be disregarded. I don’t think this has ever happened before, but it’s sure as hell what Trump wants this time. And you appear to be fully on board. I’m struggling to think of a single Trump issue in the past four years which you weren’t on board with. I think it must be because there aren’t any. And if it comes to stealing the election by not counting millions of valid postal votes you will be on board with that too.

    Please tell me I’m wrong.

  76. Anyways, Roe v Wade is toast next year. Trump has leaked his SCOTUS pick before Ginsberg’s funeral as someone hereabouts (can’t remember who) predicted. This one ticks all the boxes:

    “Who is Amy Coney Barrett? She is described as a devout Catholic who, according to a 2013 magazine article, said that “life begins at conception”. This makes her a favourite among religious conservatives keen to overturn the landmark 1973 decision that legalised abortion nationwide. She has also voted in favour of President Trump’s hardline immigration policies and expressed views in favour of expansive gun rights.

    Nominated by Mr Trump to the Chicago-based 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, she was confirmed by Senate in a 55-43 vote in October 2017 after a tough process. She was one of the names the president considered to replace Justice Anthony Kennedy in 2017. After graduating from Notre Dame University Law School in Indiana, she clerked for late Justice Antonin Scalia, who died in 2016. She served as a legal scholar at Notre Dame for around 15 years. Born in New Orleans, she is married to a former federal prosecutor in South Bend, Indiana, and together they have seven children.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54303942

  77. Because Peter they commit fraud with the mail in ballots in every election. Every election there is some district where this corruption takes place. I could fill pages with just listing the arrests for mail in ballots.

    If the race is close at the close of election night….. then the mail in ballots actually count. They are never more than 3% of the vote and 90% are military. This year there will be about 5% of the vote that are legitimate mail ins.

    They’ve already found boxes of military ballots thrown in a ditch on the side of the road in Pa, and Military Ballots in the Trash at a state counting office.

    The machine (in person) count never takes more than a hour, mail in usually takes less. The polls close at 8pm, 4 hours is more than enough time. The 3 days is more than generous allowing for the chicom flu.

  78. Amy Coney Barrett is on paper and with her rulings the perfect choice.

  79. Just because your system is so bad that it can’t stop people bending or breaking it, does not excuse you for having such a system!
    If you are going to allow a flawed voting system like this exist in your country, year after year. then don’t claim to be the ‘greatest country ever…’ in anything, unless it’s in, ‘…being shite at holding elections.’ or ‘…electing the worst feckin’ head-the-ball ever as our feckin’ president!’

  80. Patrick

    Why bother with the pretense of a vote and count if you are going to reject it if your guy loses? Because you have decided that any votes counted after three days won’t count and your guys have made damn sure that there will be millions of those. And you know you will have SCOTUS in your pocket if you need it. I guess that Clarence has already drafted his verdict and circulated it to beer boy and the other three and they will forward it to whatshername “every sperm is sacred” as soon as she gets the gig next week. That will guarantee a 6-3 win for Trump.

    Done deal, four more years in the bag, well done, civilisation saved.

  81. Seimi,

    We really don’t have a “national” election for president. We have 50 state elections. And each state election is held at the county level. County A may be a rich county that has high tech voting, whereas county B may be poor and still use punch card voting. I think I’m correct here. You’re right, it’s a real mess, but it would take a constitutional amendment to get everyone on the same standard. (because that which is not specifically enumerated to the Federal Gov. is left to the States).

    Maybe this election will be so bad as to force us to bring about long needed changes to our outdated voting system.

  82. Charles
    Even if this election, by some fluke, turns out to be the best run election ever, your system needs to change.
    If you’re voting for one person to lead your entire country, then the same standard should apply everywhere, From the smallest town to the largest city, regardless of population, wealth, whatever. Its crazy that it wasn’t included at the start, and its even more crazy that it hasn’t been corrected since.
    I think if a presidential candidate were to promise to fix this system as one of his campaign pledges, he would get more votes – and ‘happier’ votes – than the current system, which appears to be nothing more than showing that, if nothing else, your opponent is more useless than you!

  83. “You’re right, it’s a real mess, but it would take a constitutional amendment to get everyone on the same standard. (because that which is not specifically enumerated to the Federal Gov. is left to the States).”

    Not entirely certain that is the case. The constitution states:

    The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

    Thus the manner of elections is for each State Legislature, but Congress may at any time make or alter such regulations. Thus Congress could (if it wishes) impose national standards on at least House of Representatives elections (and unless states then chose to have two separate elections on the same day – one for House elections and one for everything else – then those standards would also be present for pretty much all other elections held on the same day as House elections).

  84. //to promise to fix this system as one of his campaign pledges,//

    Any problems with the actual voting system are trivial compared to the huge problem in American political structures in the first place. The system is old and broken and has led, inter alia, to the current polarisation of the country and all the insanity that comes with it, part of which you can see here every day. It won’t change whether Trump or Biden is elected.

    It’s so bad that you almost don’t want to get involved in it too much for the sake of your own mental hygiene.

    Certainly nobody from outside the US should give it any serious consideration, never mind respect.

  85. I think the chances of a disputed election (an actual disputed election – Biden could win all 50 states and there will be some who will liked to pretend he didn’t) are a lot lower than people probably think.

    Firstly Trump has a chance of winning. He would not be the favourite but this election is certainly not a done deal. The election is probably a case of 3 separate scenarios, each with about 1/3rd of a chance of happening.

    The first 1/3rd is that Trump wins. No shenanigans need by the Trump regime and his mob attorneys.

    The second 1/3rd is that Biden thumps him. In that scenario you are probably seeing him not only win a comfortable electoral college win but a humiliating one for the Republicans (Dems taking Texas, Georgia – and likely speaking the Senate and the House).

    The third 1/3rd is where things get interesting. No even in that 1/3rd the chances of an actually disputed election are still low. It can be close but decisive. I think people are over-estimating both the role of postal ballots and any Democratic advantage they may have. The election could be close but postal ballots may not be decisive. It can be close but not close enough to trigger reasonable challenge. Likely speaking you would have to have the decisive state or states decided by less than half a percentage point, and even then it would probably have to be lower than that.

    Of course the Trump team are war gaming scenarios. You can beat every penny you have that the Biden team are doing the same. It is prudent frankly. But the chances of them coming into play are quite low.

  86. A major problem with the hotchpotch of rules is the treatment of late arriving mail ballots. In four potentially key states the rules are very different.

    In Pennsylvania if a ballot has a postmark of election day or before election day (3rd November), then the ballot can arrive and be counted up to the 6th November.

    In Michigan if a ballot was posted before election day (so on or before the 2nd November), then it can be counted up to the 17th November.

    In Wisconsin if a ballot has a postmark of election day or before election day (3rd November), then the ballot can arrive and be counted up to the 9th November.

    And in North Carolin (subject to judicial sign-off following a court settlement recently), if a ballot has a postmark of election day or before election day (3rd November), then the ballot can arrive and be counted up to the 12th November.

    Now again all of this only matters if those states are tight (less than 0.5% of the vote between Trump and Biden) and the election as a whole is tight (one or more of those states matter). But Patrick’s assertion that it can all be done by the 6th November is nonsense. They will still be accepting ballots in some potentially important states by as far as the 17th November.

  87. What an absolute shambles of a system.

    (Cue indignant assertions that it, like their healthcare system, is ‘the best in the world.’)

  88. Wow. Fair play to Seamus for all of that knowledge of American elections state by state!

    Seimi, see what I mean about the variation? We absolutely need a national standard, at least for federal elections to restore faith in the system.

  89. I think you need a national electoral authority that would have full responsibility for deciding the rules of eligibility and organising the practical infrastructure the methods of voting and counting of ballots for all Nationwide elections, House, Senate and Presidency, with no interference from State governments or Federal politicians. The States can have the freedoms to decide how they organise their own Statewide or local elections but a single entire process should control General elections.

  90. We need a national standard but I don’t predict that we will have one anytime soon.

  91. Can’t have a Federal Standard. It would make sense to have one but it violates the States Rights. To do so we would have to Amend the Constitution.

  92. There already is a federal standard

    The 26th amendment to the constitution, passed in 1971, established an 18 year old voting age across the nation

    The only question here is if we wish to have a more comprehensive standard

    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendment/amendment-xxvi

  93. There is also the national standard that women have the right to vote

    Etc etc

    There are many national standards for voting in state and federal elections

  94. Article I of the constitution gives Congress the power to override the states with regards to House of Representatives elections. It would not require a constitutional amendment.

  95. good luck, you’re wrong but I’m not in the mood to explain Federalism to you.

  96. “good luck, you’re wrong but I’m not in the mood to explain Federalism to you.”

    Otherwise known as you can’t actually explain why what I said isn’t true.

    I posted the quote above:

    The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

    So regulation of House elections is for the states but Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations. So set by the states but Congress may overrule them.

  97. no in otherwords I woke up feeling like crap….. I’m in pain, there are days where my body reminds me that I am still sick. It’s both depressing and draining, makes it hard to focus and concentrate. sorry

  98. Fair enough. But if that is the case then leave it at that. Just say I’m not in the mood to argue etc… Not “you’re wrong” and I’m not in the mood to argue.

  99. fair enough

  100. I hope you feel better.