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The Enron President

By Phantom On September 28th, 2020

The recent NYT revelations show us that the man who claims to be immensely wealthy has been telling the IRS that he’s losing money.

Won’t get into the weeds on this, but we are told of some highly questionable deductions from income, etc

It will be interesting to compare what he told the IRS to what he told his financiers.

I’ve long questioned how rich he really is. On the top line, he brings in a lot of income, but it’s the bottom line that counts. Was the bottom line arrived at via a path of fraud?

Lying to the IRS can send you to prison, so can bank fraud, so can money laundering.

Trump has long accused others of the things that he himself is guilty of. He has often accused the Clintons of financial crimes.

For years, Enron was a widely admired corporation. Until it was shown that the profits were illusory, that much of the company’s apparent success was based in fraud, on fake numbers. That’s the kind of thing we’re been dealing with here.

98 Responses to “The Enron President”

  1. Thanks for kicking it off phantom,
    lets avoid the weeds, distractions, whataboutery

    Just this simple focused starter does it for me

    If you claim massive losses to avoid paying federal income taxes but inflate your revenues and assets on bank documents for loan purposes, wouldn’t that constitute fraud?

    you cant have it both ways, its seems Trump has been engaged in widespread fraud, the roots of which are summed up simply ” robbing Peter to pay Paul “

  2. Trumps rap-sheet
    Pat ” He’s committed no crime ”
    LMAO !!! Tick Tock 5 weeks out
    colm you’ll be delighted to hear I’ve done another U -turn
    Biden 400+ Electoral College Votes 🙂

  3. He has committed no crimes, but the NYTs and the Biden Campaign have.

    If and I say IF the tax returns that the NYTs have they were Illegally leaked. Phantom publish your Tax Forms on here I’d like to review your itemized deductions….

    It’s no coincidence that the Biden campaign started running adds with the same exact info that’s in the NYTs story the exact same day…. so the Biden Campaign had preknowledge of the story, probably because some nice federal union member stole a copy of Trumps taxes from the IRS and gave it to the Biden Campaign who then coordinated with the NYTs to violate Trumps 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment Rights.

    But none of you care about the Law if breaking it might damage someone whose politics you dislike.

    Speaks volumes to your character.

  4. Trump promised in 2015 to publish his tax returns.

    He lied then, he lies now, he lies always.

    He was such a fool to run for president, such a fool to carry on the way he has done.

    Anyone whose fortune was based on fraud abuse and racketeering, anyone with so many sworn enemies, including from inside his own family, may have wished to keep a lower profile, to be a bit diplomatic once in a while.

    His financial status may be dire. Few want to stay at a Trump hotel, few are staying at any hotels now, thanks to the pandemic that he messed up, few want to buy a Trump condo now. The restaurants at Trump Tower are doing no business at all.

    And the finances were bad before the pandemic.

    He may have ran for president only as a publicity stunt. But the starstruck minority actually voted him in!

  5. Imagine the noise from the Trump devotees if Clinton or Obama or anyone from another party was claiming to be so wealthy while refusing for years to publish his tax returns. They’d be screaming their indignation from the rooftops.

    But with Trump it’s all ok. Even if this claim is proven to his supporters, including people who are working their asses off to raise a family while paying all kind of taxes along the way, then it will be “well, good luck to him” etc.

  6. bullshit…… and I would say the same for Biden’s tax info, even the Clintons tax info.

    NO ONE has the right to see anyone else PRIVATE PERSONAL RECORDS.

    Fourth Amendment – U.S. Constitution – FindLaw
    https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment4.htm
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

  7. Why doesn’t your president want to disclose them himself, like he promised?

    He had a big giggle when the Dem emails were disclosed and so did you.

    Why aren’t you giggling now?

  8. LOL at the thought Trump supporters would care he is a tax fraud. Good one. That’s possibly his most redeeming feature ;p

  9. They all know that he’s a criminal.

    ” He’s a thief but he’s our thief ” is what they are all thinking.

  10. “Biden Campaign who then coordinated with the NYTs to violate Trumps 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment Rights.”

    Are you now pretending that the Fourth amendment gives protections against private actions?

    The Fourth Amendment protects against government action. Neither the New York Times or the Joe Biden for President campaign are government actors. Thus the protections granted under the Fourth amendment, or anywhere else in the constitution, do not provide protection from action from those groups.

  11. The man is not a criminal. They criminally investigated him for four years if you actually believe he had done anything criminal they wouldn’t have found it and ran it as frontpage headlines until he was locked up I got a whole slew of Bridges for sale for you.

  12. Seamus a crime was committed. Unless the NYTs is now the IRS the very possession of his Tax records is a Felony, and someone committed a Felony in leaking his info.

    You as usual justify criminal acts against those whose politics you disagree with.

    Nice moral values.

  13. lol Pat’s in denial, wonder how long that will last ?
    there’s a growing chance Trump maybe escorted from the WH in an orange jumpsuit
    the prospect of which is enough to any malfeasance excuing loyal cut supporter crazy
    we do understand , a lot of hankies will be wet as the crocodile tears flow

    remeber this , its very important as regards repentance

    “Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.” Cor 7:10

    means genuine repentance sets you up again , you can learn from your mistakes, out things right after holding up your hand
    self-pitying, self justifying apologies do the opposite, they keep you wallowing making excuses, and your soul rots away

    which one is Trump ?

  14. Monstrous hypocrites for all the ages of man

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-wikileaks-campaign-speeches-julian-assange-2017-11

    They loved this, but they hate the NYT leaks.

  15. “Seamus a crime was committed. Unless the NYTs is now the IRS the very possession of his Tax records is a Felony, and someone committed a Felony in leaking his info.”

    Not necessarily. Federal law makes it illegal for an IRS employee to leak the returns. An employee of Trump’s accountants would have an ethical duty not to leak them but wouldn’t be subject to criminal action for doing so.

    And it would only be illegal for the New York Times to print them if a) the leak was illegal and b) they knew the leak was illegal. If an anonymous source mailed them to them then they are fine.

    “You as usual justify criminal acts against those whose politics you disagree with.”

    Nope. I contend this was either not criminal or if it was criminal then it shouldn’t be criminal.

  16. Everyone in the Trump family, every employee of his should be a suspect. He has probably cheated all of them.

    Patrick, please hire Inspector Cluseau to get to the bottom of this.

  17. there’s zero shame phantom, but they still try damage limitation which proves deep down they know they’ve screwed up badly.
    Trump is not masculine, masculine takes responsibility, serve in military, pay taxes, don’t call people who serve in the forces or pay tax : losers and suckers
    he’s more a slut, a harlot, a shameless hussy , in biblical terms a whore of babylon !
    evidence for that is his crying all the time how everyone is so unfair to him.
    Its the cry of a banshee, most people see right through it, ofc the bewitched are deceived, but by the deception in their own souls .. read james letter in NT on that , he’s very erudite.

  18. Phantom…… what has my position been on Julian Assange from day one ?

  19. What has Trump’s position been on Wikileaks since the campaign started?

    That’s the more important question.

    The vast majority of Trump supporters loved what Wikileaks did. He mentioned the leaks repeatedly at rallies, where the supporters cheered the leaks.

    Live by the sword, die by the sword.

  20. Wow! Trump’s an alleged tax fraud? Who would’ve thought that a man who embezzeled $2 million from charitable foundations for his own personal benefit would ever dream of defrauding the IRS too?. I have to say, Pat inventing some phantom crime to give Trump the mantle of victimhood while ignoring the alleged fraud is pretty amusing too.

    I read that in response he said that his finances were still being audited, he’d need to fire the auditors in what must be the longest audit in history.

  21. paul a hilarious aside is he owes $1.1 billion , and apparently that qualifies you to say you’re a billionaire .. perfectly Trumpian

    pat spotted you shooting the messenger there above and hanging on any lines that help to distract by picking up wikileaks .. watching how you work mr spider 😉

  22. “You as usual justify criminal acts against those whose politics you disagree with.”

    Nope. I contend this was either not criminal or if it was criminal then it shouldn’t be criminal.

    Please read the following completely

    Fourth Amendment – U.S. Constitution – FindLaw
    https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment4.htm
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Now I know english is a challenge to you people… so let me translate for the foreigners.

    no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    That means you can’t even as a court or an arm of the Law just demand someone’s Tax Records so you can SEE if the committed a crime. That’s called FISHING.

    To LEGALLY gain access to that information you must FIRST have a crime and you have to specify specifically what the crime is and what information from the documents you are looking for.

    Even if you are looking for fraud and have a valid warrant, if while looking at the specific documents you don’t find evidence of the crime you are looking for, but you find blatant evidence of a DIFFERENT crime you have to go back to the court and get a second warrant.

    You people have no rights so you do not understand how OUR PROTECTIONS work.

  23. This is a conversion that like the hit piece has no value except to stir up the phanatics as it has here.

    Trump has committed no crimes, he would already have been prosecuted after four years and a 45 million dollar investigation of him for anything criminal.

    The US tax code is written so that people of wealth pay no taxes, they can bypass taxes through deductions, depreciation, losses etc etc etc…. it’s not a crime it’s perfectly legal and how the code is designed.

    However those who hate don’t care about fact or the Law and the gullible….. (all you above) can be easily spun.

  24. That means you can’t even as a court or an arm of the Law just demand someone’s Tax Records so you can SEE if the committed a crime. That’s called FISHING.

    To LEGALLY gain access to that information you must FIRST have a crime and you have to specify specifically what the crime is and what information from the documents you are looking for

    Looks like the pinnacle of law in your country disagreed:

    https://www.ft.com/content/2f249f8c-3aaa-4c41-bbe0-e78fd577b2ab

    But hey, what would they know?

    The judicial system of your country will decide if he’s created a crime, not anyone on ATW.

  25. If I could read the article you linked to I would point out how you’re being spun a lie, but it’s behind a pay wall…. how convenient

  26. ot and better topic one that’s real and a BIG problem for all the Euro Nations…..

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-launches-new-search-for-nuclear-waste-storage-site/ar-BB19uVBa?ocid=uxbndlbing

  27. Individual income tax returns are public information in Norway!

    https://theculturetrip.com/europe/norway/articles/norway-country-public-tax-returns/

  28. Pat, here’s one not behind a paywall:

    Trump tax returns: Supreme Court rules president must hand over financial documents to prosecutor

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-tax-returns-supreme-court-congress-financial-documents-business-a9610511.html

    Are you suggesting that that ruling wasn’t made by the SC?

  29. The US tax code is written so that people of wealth pay no taxes, they can bypass taxes through deductions, depreciation, losses etc etc etc…. it’s not a crime it’s perfectly legal and how the code is designed.

    not so fast,
    The problem with that, and I’m sure you are right about how the wealthy pay no tax, its left to the suckers/voters to pay America’s bills

    but , but but

    if you’re applying for loans, and you inflate your assets that’s a crime

    my comment at the beginning of the thread shows how you can’t do both
    simply fact is if you’re that broke that you avoid tax, there no way you can raise loans
    unless you lie ,or have wealthy Russian mobsters who bankroll you

    I think we’ll find when it all comes out that is why Trump has cozied up to Putin,
    Trump is broke, Putin and his Oligarch friends are thieves killers and mobsters
    the perfect partners for Trump to do illegal business with , esp with a corrupt AG Billy bob Barr oiling the wheels ..
    when you’re that busted, you become an easy targets for foreign states to manipulate with offers of cash , Trump is a traitor to the US of A
    game , set match , the record will show
    courtesy of Deutcshe Bank no less !!

    stay tuned, this one is the big one

  30. “Now I know english is a challenge to you people… so let me translate for the foreigners.”

    And, given your difficulty with the English language let me again ask:

    Are you now pretending that the Fourth amendment gives protections against private actions?

  31. It is not impossible that Trump, the male Leona Helmsley, will serve a prison sentence, just as his fellow tax cheat did.

    The walls are closing in.

    And no one can say that they’re surprised to hear what the NYT has reported.

  32. I read that his golf resorts in Ireland & Scotland are hemorrhaging money hand over fist and am glad that the Irish have played a small part in this.

  33. “It is not impossible that Trump, the male Leona Helmsley, will serve a prison sentence.”

    One one hand he almost certainly deserves a prison sentence. On the other hand, even in the worst case scenario for Trump in November, then still over 40% of the population will have voted for him. Joe Biden, if he wins, will have to bring the United States together after four years of division and misrule. I’m not sure putting the individual supported by 40% of the population in prison serves that purpose (however merited the case maybe on an individual basis).

  34. Can’t argue with that.

    He could receive a pardon as did Nixon

  35. not on state charges , only on federal charges can you pardon
    someone explain the diff please 🙂
    seamus ? can you help us

  36. If he was to be convicted on state bank fraud or tax evasion charges, the only one who could grant a pardon would be Cuomo

  37. As soon as I saw this last night, I knew PaTroll would go into full defensive mode.

    “Now I know english is a challenge to you people… so let me translate for the foreigners.”

    The irony of spelling English with a lower-case ‘E’ is lost on him 🙂

    “If I could read the article you linked to I would point out how you’re being spun a lie, but it’s behind a pay wall…. how convenient”

    Why would anyone purposely post links for your benefit that you couldn’t open? And why is your default position to immediately think they are trying to dupe you?

  38. A federal pardon in the United States is the action of the President of the United States that completely sets aside the punishment for a federal crime. The authority to take such action is granted to the president by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution. Under the Constitution, the president’s clemency power extends to federal criminal offenses.[1] All requests for executive clemency for federal offenses are directed to the Office of the Pardon Attorney in the U.S. Department of Justice for investigation and review. The pardon does not take effect if the beneficiary of the pardon does not accept it.[2]

    The president’s pardon power is limited to federal offenses because the Constitution only grants the president the power to pardon “[o]ffenses against the United States.”[3] An offense that violates state law, but not federal law, is an offense against the state rather than an offense against the United States.[3]

    correct phantom, Cuomo can pardon on state charges – I guess as Donald has been nice to him ( NOT ) you might expect Cuomo to return the favour .

    Mart Trump says he hates being called Donald , so that’s an opener for Biden to use tomorrow 🙂

  39. Very much of what he has done in his businesses was done in NY State.

    And the NY AG and Governor are not his friends, will not do him any favors.

  40. seimi
    poor pat so brain addled over this story, he might as well claim
    Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein should have been jailed for exposing Watergate
    – attack the whistleblower/messenger – yeah that’ll kill the story right there huh !

  41. I think that the recent news will be devastating as respects any independents

    The dead enders don’t care, they never did, but there were people who struggled esp as Biden/Harris is such a miserable, soul destroying alternative.

    No one did this to Trump. He did it to himself, he did it to the country.

    If there had been a President Rubio or Jeb Bush, you might be walking into a sure GOP victory now.

  42. Ultimately it isn’t just the news. The news would be problematic enough for Trump. But what will really hurt is the simple headline. Often these things can be complicated, and so trying to get people to read the fine print will be difficult. But if you can sum up what has happened in a few words then it will be more effective. So “Trump pays $750 dollars in tax” will be an effective headline, and will hurt far more than a detailed, forensic look at his accounts.

    “not on state charges , only on federal charges can you pardon”

    Correct. As Phantom points out only the Governor of New York could pardon him on New York charges, and the Governor of Florida on Florida charges etc… That being said if Trump is firmly in the rear-view mirror then Joe Biden should lift the phone and ask Andrew Cuomo to pardon him.

  43. Why would anyone purposely post links for your benefit that you couldn’t open? And why is your default position to immediately think they are trying to dupe you?

    The FT article wasn’t initially behind a paywall although when I opened it a second time it was. However, the second link makes exactly the same point, the USSC mandated the disclosure of Trump’s tax returns. So, where does that ruling fit into Pat’s claims block quoted in my 3.40? As I say above, Pat is contriving a situation in order to try to portray Trump as the victim here while casually ignoring the claims of tax fraud avoidance. I suspect his silence is him trawling Trump moon howling sites in order to try to construct some sort of defence.

    BTW, I don’t think that this will make one iota of difference to the true believers even if proven 150% to be correct. The cultists will lap this up and laugh about it.

  44. “Perfectly Legal For Me To Be POTUS From Prison!” Trump Tweets, Adopting New Tact
    With his indictment and a possible arrest appearing imminent, President Donald Trump has abandoned any pretense of innocence and now contends that he can remain in office even while serving a prison term

    On Sunday the president tweeted: “Spoke to Rudy, AG Whitaker, and Hannity —all say it is PERFECTLY LEGAL for me to be POTUS from prison! No impact on my ability to lead!”
    His attorney, former NYC Mayor Rudy Giuiani followed shortly after with a tweet of his own: “Even if Donald Trump were to be arrested and incarcerated, we find no legal precedent for a sitting president to be stripped of his power just because he’s sitting in a jail cell. FAKE NEWS!”

    one helluva ride , can this really be happening ? Yes I’m afraid it can and is happening

    looking forward to petem’s masterclass in ballet dancing on later threads , pirouette skills – and colm saying Yeah but he’s only pretending 😉

  45. Paul I didn’t think you linked to something I couldn’t read on purpose I was letting you know the link was dead and busting your balls…..

  46. Look what part of this don’t you all get….. no one believes the press on either side. It’s no longer necessary. No one can hide from the cameras, everything is recorded and freely dispersed.

    There’s no one in this country who doesn’t know exactly who each one of these men are. This is ritual nothing more, pure and simple. Everyone has already decided how they are going to vote, and unless a nuclear bomb goes off somewhere that ain’t gonna change….. and I see no bombs going of real or metaphorically.

    This is pure performance at this stage, pure visuals who comes out looking the best when it’s just the two of them. That’s the only time either of them can hurt the other or gain momentum for themselves.

    The press can write what it wants…. nobodies buying.

  47. NP Pat, I didn’t think you were but was just explaining the context of the link.

    Anyhow, the Independent link makes exactly the point the FT was making, that the Trump financial records disclosure was ordered by the USSC.

    The press can write what it wants…. nobodies buying

    That’s nothing more than a variation of Trump’s hoary ‘fake news’ whine.

  48. yeah, doesn’t mean it’s not true

  49. Pat the wheels of Justice grind slowly, Law matters , its the only thing we have on planet Earth to reward the good and punish the guilty
    character matters to as you’ll find out in a Biden landslide
    millions of Republicans are going to vote for Biden because of Trumps character
    Gonna be a huge shock for you, you’ll have your “nuclear bomb” on Nov 3rd
    and you’ll be forced to admit “character matters” most to your fellow countryman even if doesn’t to you !
    that’s my mini-nuke for the day , right there heat-seeking F&F as my jet just passes over your home and delivers a pay-load 😉

  50. Perhaps but as usual,

    quod grātīs asseritur, grātīs negātur

    An argment ad ignorantium isn’t evidence of anything other than personal opinion.

  51. pat’s way off the money here, whereas phantom knows from real-life how news of no tax paid for 10 of 15 years, and only $750 last few years will play amongst the independents: badly

    I’m staked well for Trump to get under 40% votes , its still 14/1 which is amazing odds
    That’s the base of 40% and Biden with 60%, if he picks up most independents its the quirk of USA politics. Neither side rarely ever goes below 40%
    stick £7 on that bet and win £100 if say 39.5% for Trump , if lose its only £7

  52. Trump is the new Leona Helmsley, who like Donald Trump was a widely hated NY real estate type who engaged in tax fraud.

  53. Kurt, I wouldn’t be so confident. Anyone influenced by the despicable character of this troglodyte, the coarseness, lies, rudeness, incompetence etc will have made up their minds months ago.

    This is far from a foregone conclusion and this won’t make a blind bit of difference either way.

  54. i’m a betting man paul only on political bets
    14/1 is very low confidence, a 7% chance, but worth a punt
    it would come up s,elling of roses if a sizeable portion of Trumps base desert him

    evidence from that article earlier on 11% swing from the Christians to Biden
    helps predict these things
    put it this way, there is no stats showing Trump adding any votes at all, anywhere

  55. I will agree with Pat here. People have already made up their minds, and an “October Surprise” in the NYT is not going to change many minds, IMO. It doesn’t change my vote. I know who and what Trump is. I’m not going to change my vote to the loons on the Harris/Biden ticket over creative accounting, which for all I know, may be legit.

  56. sorry charles but that’s not true
    you’re speaking for yourself, only
    the base is 40% + on either side
    which leaves the 20% independents
    in this election as every election , they decide the winner
    and they are swung by scandals.
    all you’re saying is you are NOT
    which we knew anyway !

  57. The base of either party won’t decide anything.

    The base of each major party needs to be quiet. The base of each party is why the country is in the trouble that it’s in.

    The decision will be made by true independents, by Republicans who will vote Biden this time, by Democrats who voted Trump four years ago who might not do so this year. But it’s not a good decision.

    No one from Honolulu to Portland Maine will be happy with this choice. It will be hold your nose, and vote against, not for.

    The country will remain troubled.

  58. Kurt

    There is some truth to that. If I was an independent, I think I would say a pox on both their houses. Biden doesn’t have clean hands either with his son’s financial dealings, which to me is more problematic. That’s b/c Biden used his influence as V.P. to enrich his family. This isn’t whataboutery on my part, just the facts. Trump was in private life at the time.

  59. that’s ok though phantom, as a temp measure
    prolly right they’re not voting for Biden as much as voting against Trump.
    It means we see the back of him and rebuild, as GOP will have to restart

  60. Trump was buying the influence of politicians with money.

    He has openly admitted to it.

    That’s not better than anything that Hunter Biden did – its the same thing or worse.

  61. oh charles how can you be so mis-informed man, Trump has spent his entire presidency enriching his kids, using them for tax breaks by giving them consultancy fees
    Biden has been investigated over and over , no crime
    so on the one hand you have real evidence of Trumps corruption as regards his Empire
    and on the other hand a fantasy variation on Hunter Biden , who has ben cleared
    and you choose to go with the fantasy !!

  62. i don’t think that that’s the case at all, Charles. I think that Biden Jr was offered the job, (and took it), because of his surname and as an attempt to curry favour. There’s no evidence whatsoever that Biden Snr was involved of that favour was curried. If anything Biden Jr is guilty of opportunism and nothing more.

    I find this just as if not more sleazy:

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-paid-ivanka-700000-plus-for-consulting-times-investigation-says-2020-9

    Is there anything further from ‘draining the swamp?’

  63. the Senate Report on Biden is getting zero air time by the “Biden protection zone” aka the US Press. And Joe Biden is on tape bragging how he got the prosecutor fired that was to investigate Burisma.

    Hunter Biden has not been cleared!

  64. Joe Biden is on tape bragging how he got the prosecutor fired that was to investigate Burisma

    Which was executing US, UK, EU & IMF policy against Ukrainian corruption at the time?

    Charles, this has been dealt with here multiple times. Besides, if you think this about Biden Jr how can you not level the same standard against Trump and the allegations of him paying Ivanka for something she was already responsible for and then using the ‘consultancy fees’ for tax deductions?

  65. “Biden doesn’t have clean hands either with his son’s financial dealings, which to me is more problematic. That’s b/c Biden used his influence as V.P. to enrich his family. This isn’t whataboutery on my part, just the facts.”

    Are they facts? Is there a single shred of evidence to suggest that Joe Biden was in any way, shape or form involved in Hunter Biden’s dealings in Ukraine or elsewhere. Even a single piece of evidence?

    “Hunter Biden has not been cleared!”

    Last time I checked Hunter Biden is not running for President. And as a smart man said “the children … should be off limits anyway”.

  66. Is there a single shred of evidence to suggest that Joe Biden was in any way, shape or form involved in Hunter Biden’s dealings in Ukraine or elsewhere.

    Yes, a Senate committee accused Joe Biden of going easy on Ukrainian corruption, in particular on the man in charge at Burisma Holdings (which was paying Hunter Biden mega-sums of money at the time.

    https://nypost.com/2020/09/23/gop-senators-release-explosive-report-on-hunter-biden-burisma/

  67. “Yes, a Senate committee accused Joe Biden of going easy on Ukrainian corruption, in particular on the man in charge at Burisma Holdings (which was paying Hunter Biden mega-sums of money at the time.”

    That isn’t evidence. That is a group of Republican Senators making accusations. Again have you any evidence?

  68. ‘Senate Republicans’

    Aye, a non partisan, impartial ‘Senate Committee’ they were, too.

  69. Adult children who trade on the family name are most certainly not off limits.

    That means you, Hunter, Ivanka, Donald Jr and Eric.

  70. I’m sure you could squeeze Jared in there too.

  71. sorry to say but at least pat is more honest
    he knows Trumps is a sleaze-bag of moral putrefication
    and that’s how he likes his GOP Presidents – the dirtier the better
    make him and the followers look a lil cleaner, cos Trump has such a darkness in his soul – that’s what they’re attracted to, not the light as there is none
    pls don’t give Trump any clothes of respectability charles
    you’re voting for a schmuck and you know he’s a schmuck – that’s the deal
    with that in mind how you sleep at night has never been a problem for a pharmacist with his paws in the medicine cabinet , unless you get caught with said paws in the cookie jar 😉

  72. Though Jared now had done some good with the UAE and Bahrain / Israel deals.

    His stock has gone up.

  73. the smartest women in the USA knows a thing or two aand its real stuff
    99% will miss the implications though, as it requires carrying a thought, and holding it
    and asking the question: what is the danger to usa of this exposure

    “Pelosi said it was crucial that the American people know to whom Trump owes money because those parties could have leverage over the US president.

    “For me, this is a national security question,” Pelosi said. “The public has a right to know” the details of Trump’s debt obligations, the Democratic speaker added.

    for every forensic cop or FBI agent, this is their bread and butter training in the first term . Its the science of how blackmail and extortion works !!

  74. Though Jared now had done some good with the UAE and Bahrain / Israel deals

    I don’t think that consolidating a de facto schism and further polarising an already fractured ME into two main power blocks is going to auger well for ‘peace’ in the region in the long run.

  75. It’s a hugely incomplete thing, not peace in the ME by any means.

  76. I didn’t say it was ‘peace’ I implied it would be ominous for peace in the region.

  77. there will never be peace in the ME until the jews and arabs meet and say to each other

    1) hey what happened to you jew? you killed your messiah
    2) hey waht happened to you arab, you invented a man made prophet and built a religion around him

    3) Oh shit , yeah we both fucked up, the messiah came his name is Jeshua

    4) we’re both long lost brothers you know,
    Direct sons of Abraham, Ishmael the muslim lineage, Isaac the jewish lineage

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael

    5) hugs

    6) well we better to go mass then

    7) Agreed , lets go

    This will happen, one day 🙂

  78. I see it as a small and interesting step forward. No more.

  79. not sure myself, its a temp stabilizer, anyone making friends with israel in that area is welcome, but i do believe theses are pawn moves only
    sunni’s esp in smaller states want to gravitate around USA/Saudi/Israel coalition, so that when the shit hits the fan ( as they see it ) and USA attacks Iran ( shia ) , they want to be seen as the good muslims .
    If the price to pay for seeing the shia destroyed, being a lil nice to Israel is worth paying

    Thats how it looks from sussex the southern state of the uk bible belt 😉

  80. there will never be peace in the ME until the jews and arabs meet and say to each other

    Let’s stop believing in fairy tales that create division and tribalism amongst people.

  81. you can’t avoid it DaveA, its in the historical record
    Abraham existed and had 2 sons, they separated and this gave rise to the two traditions
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs
    mate you seem to spend alot of time banging your head against proven facts
    after which they’ll still be there, while you have a sore head 😉

    If you really want to get into this
    lets take King David for example
    do you want to argue he didn’t exist ? be foolish but you’re welcome
    and at point do you say and with what authority

    ok everyone prior to king david didn’t exist
    then they find evidence and you say
    ok up to Saul, the rest didn’t exist
    see the problem , its a vain hope you’re pining your hopes on

    what you can do is unite the strands into one family , that is a maybe

  82. mate you seem to spend alot of time banging your head against proven facts

    I’m a big supporter of proven facts Kurt. Like the fact that it’s impossible to build a wooden boat the size of Noah’s ark without it breaking apart.

  83. now believe in the Ark or not, but if you go by the dimensions and instruction of the biblical text it certainly will float and be stable. Several replicas have been made including one to scale.

    https://arkencounter.com/about/

  84. …but if you go by the dimensions and instruction of the biblical text it certainly will float and be stable.

    Have they tried floating that thing? It’s just a big wooden structure, built on land. When you say it will float, do you mean that most of the individual bits will float?
    And as for stable, well you guys regard Trump as a stable genius, so no thanks.

    Abraham existed and had 2 sons, they separated and this gave rise to the two traditions

    These people may well have existed historically, but that doesn’t mean that they did the things you claim they did, any more than their existence proves the existence of god.
    Stories are exaggerated in the re-telling. I’ll give you an example:

    Here in Belfast, we’re quite proud of the fact that we had a highwayman, who hid out on the Black Mountain, which overlooks the city.

    Originally from Kells, near modern-day Ballymena (if Ballymena can be called modern!), Naoise Ó hEocháin (or Ness O’Haughan, for all you Brit-speakers) was the eldest of four brothers. Having been driven off their land by the Redcoats (Boo!), they travelled to the Black Mountain and set up camp, becoming highwaymen.
    Now, at this point, had this story only been told a few decades ago, we would all regard the Ó hEocháin boys as nothing more than robbers and thieves. But, given that this happened a few hundred years ago – at the beginning of the 18th Century – they have achieved a more romanticised veneer. Much like Robin Hood, they apparently robbed the rich, but quite generously gave to the poor.
    Naoise’s exploits involve sparing the man who betrayed them (his three brothers were captured and hanged) because, when he went to his house to kill him, he found him at prayer, and could not kill a man who was conversing with god, as well as robbing every merchant going to and coming back from a Lammas Fair in Carrickfergus – the treasure is still hidden somewhere on the mountain, apparently.
    Naoise himself evaded capture by joining the very army who were trying to capture him, but initially escaped from them by running from the summit of the mountain, down what is now the Whiterock Road, across the Bog meadows and then jumping across the Lagan River. For anyone unfamiliar with this area, this is a distance of quite a few miles, down a steep slope, across treacherous, marshy, boggy ground, ending with a jump of 30-40 feet at its narrowest.
    Anyone can see that this can’t possibly be true, but that is the story as told, and that is the mythology which surrounds someone who died only 300 years ago (this year, actually. He was caught and hanged at the Three Sisters Tree, the gallows tree in Carrickfergus).
    Someone who is historically and spiritually important, like King David, who died how many thousands of years ago? Their story will be embellished and exaggerated even more – their deeds and feats will be blown up a thousand-fold.
    What if Noah turned out to be a simple farmer who, when a flood occurred, put two of every animal he owned on a boat in order to save them? What if he happened to be a rich farmer, who had more animals and happened to have a boat? Maybe he saved 20, 30, 60 animals, but in the re-telling of the story, that number grew and grew, until somebody told a version where it was two of every animal on Earth? Then later on – centuries later – Christianity comes along, hears the story, sees how popular it is, and performs its own version of Cultural Appropriation, by adding god to the equation?
    It wouldn’t be the first time. Some of Ireland’s greatest mythological sagas and tales have been ruined and sanitised for children by adding Christianity to them, so why not the old stories of the Middle East and Turkey?

    None of this is meant to insult the Christians on the site. I respect your views and beliefs. But they are some of the questions I have asked others – and myself – over the years, and the answers I get from Christians all seem to revolve around the basic, “You just have to have faith” reply, which just isn’t good enough. Sorry.

  85. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O8wGjwyS7o&ab_channel=AnchorStones

  86. in 1977 Jimmy Cater paid zero taxes was he a criminal….. look it up.

  87. That’s not a boat Patrick. That’s a timber framed building, sitting on concrete supports with a partial concrete structure clad in wood. Even Ken Ham admits it’s not a boat, it’s a museum.
    And as was proven in Kurt’s ark posting previously, a totally wooden vessel that large would not be capable of floating without breaking up. That’s not an opinion Patrick, it’s structural engineering fact, based on the material strength and flexibility of wood.

  88. When The President Paid No Taxes — No, Not That President
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2017/04/

    Apr 19, 2017 · Trump is not the first chief executive to wrestle with the optics of being a non-payer. In 1977 Jimmy Carter paid exactly nothing to the federal treasury.

    Author: Joseph Thorndike

  89. Dave from an engineering standpoint the ark would float, it’s been debated and studied for decades.

  90. The Anchor Stones theory is just that: a theory. You would have thought that god, in his ultimate wisdom and very precise instructions regarding cubits, would also have said to Noah – who had never built a boat before and therefore knew NOTHING about anchor stones – “Oh, and before I forget: them waves can be a bit of a bastard out there, so don’t forget to tie a load of heavy stones to the bottom of your boat. Also, don’t forget to cut them loose at convenient intervals on the way back.”

  91. I never said it wouldn’t float Patrick, it’s wood, I said it wouldn’t be sea worthy, it would break up even in the lightest of swells.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_(schooner)#:~:text=Wyoming%20was%20a%20wooden%20six,known%20wooden%20ship%20ever%20built

  92. Obama paid more tax in his first year than Reagan, Bush, Clinton, GWB and Trump paid combined in each of their first years

    Glad we had one real American in there

  93. WASHINGTON, June 24 — President Carter offered today to make a voluntary payment of $6,000 to the Government after his 1976 income tax return showed that, because of investment credits and deductions, he owed no tax on a gross income of almost $55,000 for that year.

    In a letter to John W. Henderson, district director of the Internal Revenue Service in Atlanta, Mr. Carter asked him to accept the $6,000, which is slightly more than 15 percent of Mr. Carter’s net taxable income of $39,366.

    The President said that he was taking the step “because of my strong feeling that a person should pay some tax on his income.

    The White House press secretary, Jody Powell, told reporters that one reason for offering to make the payment was that “we deal in this world with appearances as well as reality.”

    NYT 1977

    Carter shared his return and voluntarily paid 15% of his fairly modest income. You’re barking up the wrong tree

  94. Construction
    The original Noah’s Ark was supposedly 300 cubits long, 50 wide and 30 high (139m x 23m x 13m in the metric system). That’s big, especially for a boat made of wood. So big in fact that it would be impossible. To clarify; it would be possible to build, it just wouldn’t function as a boat, due to being incredibly fragile thanks to the Euler-Bernoulli beam theory and other physics. Basically, the bigger something is, the more fragile it is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2013/oct/29/noahs-ark-modern-science

  95. its a boat that floated , its just doesn’t float your boat daveA
    – boom boom

    in fact mate you’re as anti biblical records like kings and patriarchs
    as pat is with being anti science on climate change

    2 sides same coin , not impressed by either of your records I’m afraid

    both living in “de nile” clinging to dogmas and afraid that you might be wrong

    wake up and smell the coffee

    there’s recent evidence come out that the earliest language was in fact hebrew

    now you’re really up shit creek 😉

    I’m not going to convince you of anything, but i am allowed to laugh and chuckle to myself
    when you go off on your anti-biblical historical rants

    they amuse me no end ..lol

    DaveA that religion is a fairy story is just a fairy story you tell yourself every night – you have huge faith in the opposite ..

  96. gentleman it’s a myth which means it is based on something but no physical evidence of it has ever been found….. yet and maybe never.

    To those who believe it’s a matter of faith. Faith is believing in something without proof.

    The ship could be made and could float and that’s based on the mythological dimensions, but you think in two dimensional terms.

    We really don’t know the timescale of humans on the planet. We do know that at one point in the earths history it suffered a catastrophe that tilted it on it’s axis causing what was once under water to be be surface and vice versa.

    90% of the planets archeology of life is under water, the Ark could be a tale of this cataclysm just as Atlantis could be.

    We know a lot less than you think about the planet, man, and nature. Until we are capable of archeological digs under the ocean we will never know the real history of the planet.

    Even now in the modern world we only have 2000 years of history, beyond that we can’t decipher the languages. We know on the surface we can date mankind back 200,000yrs yet we only have a history we can understand for 10% of that……

    Nothing is greater than what we don’t know.

  97. DaveA I think you’d like John’s Gospel , he’s the mystical one , all cosmological and transcendent. “In the beginning was the word …
    good place to start 🙂
    the faith has survived and grown in 2000 yrs, 2 world wars, hitler, science with its fairytale and sci-fi language of dark matter , dark energy which they can’t find becomes articles of faith at the macro and micro levels .
    seek and ye shall find

  98. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/running-for-president-was-the-worst-business-decision-trump-ever-made/2020/09/28/d0bad886-01c7-11eb-b7ed-141dd88560ea_story.html

    If the numbers weren’t so complicated to parse, voters might be more interested in learning that his businesses aren’t so profitable — something Trump would surely never admit. Indeed, he sold himself as a top-notch manager with a Midas touch: not some useless politician, but an actual businessman, someone who knew how to make things happen in the real world.

    The Times report paints a different picture — one of a bad businessman who successfully played a good one on television. Some of his early real estate investments are still making him money, and there’s considerable income from his minority interest in property managed by someone else. But over the past 20 years, most of his profits, more than $400 million, came from “The Apprentice” or licensing deals. That income, however, was almost completely absorbed by gargantuan losses at the actual businesses where he had to make things happen in the real world

    .

    He’s never been a competent manager or investor overall. If it weren’t for “ The Apprentice “ reality show, its likely that he would have gone bust ages ago.

    I see two very good moves, both early in his career- the Hyatt Hotel deal and the Trump Tower development. After that, for decades, branding deals and catastrophic moves ( Atlantic City and other casinos, Plaza Hotel, an airline, golf courses )