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SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE CANCELLED

By Pete Moore On September 30th, 2020

A Christian street preacher who  once awarded £2,500 for wrongful arrest and the confiscation of his Bible, has lost his appeal against conviction for ranting: “All Muslims are going to hell.”

No, no no no no no. This is a proclamation of straightforward, orthodox Christian theology. All religions are exclusionary and, by definition, teach that the unbeliever is doomed. Christians must have the right to believe Muslims are going to hell and to say so. Muslims must have the right to believe Christians are going to hell and to say so (in their own countries, of course). Atheists must have the right to tell both of them that they are nuts.

Left-liberal bigotry has long been the gravest threat to our fundamental freedoms, such as the freedom to speak freely.

78 Responses to “SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE CANCELLED”

  1. Stupid decision. If the preacher’s works could have incited violence, it could only have been violence against himself by some Muslim listeners. Socially, his words were harmless.

    When I was in school we were told that Protestants and Jews etc aren’t going to get into heaven.

    The weird thing is, the teachers and books were right when they told us that.

  2. I doubt if petem will be seen focusing on the Tories to change the law
    easier to bash the lib/left – whatever than means in this context !

  3. Christian Oluwole Ilesanmi

    What happened to ‘import third world, get third world?’

    A stupid decision. He should never have been arrested in the first place.

    The weird thing is, the teachers and books were right when they told us that

    Absolutely. I have no great love for Mother Church but it’s clear that Catholicism is the one true religion and that Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists & all denominations of Protestantism etc are heretics who are going to hell.

  4. i would have liked to read more about the case, his actual words
    if he was simply on an anti-muslim rant, fuck him
    but if he was nuanced and suggested ALL who do not repent and believe are damned
    then that is the bibles teaching and he should be free to preach the message
    part a) being the bad news = Hell
    part b) good news – Jesus came to save you – that is the way out .

    I suspect this guy was a ne’er do well
    most independent preachers have a bee in their bonnet about gays or Muslims
    and take to the street to voice a hateful message, rather than the whole thing
    which includes a loving message ..

  5. //ALL who do not repent and believe are damned
    then that is the bibles teaching //

    What does it mean, all who do not believe are damned?

  6. I’ve seen ( anti white ) hate preachers on the streets of NYC, the Black Israelites

    No one arrested them. But they were heckled pretty good.

    You don’t always need to fine or arrest someone who does something bad.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBdk5hDadYE

  7. Noel,

    What does it mean, all who do not believe are damned?

    Yes. Under Christianity you have to believe before you can repent.

  8. Well, I find myself agreeing with Pete twice in as many days.

    I remember a Christian preacher in Manchester, preaching that all homosexuals were going to hell during the Manchester pride festival being threatened with arrest. Despite him being obnoxious twat, and completely disagreeing with what he said, I was disgusted that his right to free speech was being taken away.

  9. actually no its the right way round DaveA
    John the baptist came to foreshadow the saviour with a message to repent
    then jesus came asking that you believe in Him
    later on John said whilst being in prison , ”
    “He must become greater; I must become less.” John 3:30

    Its hard to argue with you when you’ve not read the book !

  10. So this guy is a “good immigrant” Pete? Because he damns the islamists to perdition, of course, he must be. Your general view is that all “third world” immigration to white countries has been a total disaster, so I’m not quite sure how you square this one. Maybe it’s a sky-god thing?

  11. kurt,

    Its hard to argue with you when you’ve not read the book

    I’ve told you several times Kurt that I have read the old and New testament more than once. Which part of that do you not understand?

    Noel’s question, in response to your statement was:

    What does it mean, all who do not believe are damned?

    He is asking, (correct me if I’m wrong Noel), that if you repent of your sins but do not believe are you still damned?
    To which I replied:

    Yes. Under Christianity you have to believe before you can repent.

    Which is what it says in the Bible. Repenting your sins is not enough, you also have to believe. Under Christianity. You could have been a mass murderer and still get into heaven as long as you believe.

  12. Yes you can repent at the last hour of life supposedly

  13. But you also have to believe Phantom.

  14. It’s not helpful just to throw out the word believe
    It can mean anything you want it to be
    Belief that follows repentance is the belief that your sins can be forgiven by Christ
    Jews for example repent but don’t believe in the redeeming power of the blood
    Same with Muslims so their repentance has no value according to Christianity .

    Their are what’s called carnal Christians who profess to believe but have never and do not repent .
    They’re absurd

  15. It’s not helpful just to throw out the word believe
    It can mean anything you want it to be

    I’m quite clearly using the word believe in context here Kurt, to mean belief in the Christian God.

  16. Perfect example that all euros are really totalitarian communists.

  17. kurt, if all who do not believe in Christ are damned, that means that all those unfortunate Jewish mothers who held their young children close as they huddled naked in the gas chambers, they were all damned yet again as soon as their ordeal was over, going directly from one hell to another. And all because of the religion they were born into.

    You are putting God firmly on the same side as Hitler.

  18. hi DaveA
    I’m being more specific, a belief in God is still too vague, many people believe in “A”God or “many” Gods
    Its the belief in the cross, as substitution , as penalty paid for mans since once and for all
    which you’ll know all about as St.Paul covered it in every letter in the New Testament.

    Its the only context that makes any sense in that one would repent = acknowledge wrong as sin, all have fallen short of the high standard, and that moves onto believing in the redemeeming power of christs death and resurrection .

    Noel,

    Not so fast huckleberry 😉
    St.Paul covered this in Romans

    ““Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved” (vv. 25-26a).

    – Romans 11:25-27

    God foresaw the whole thing , being omnisicient, that the jews would harden they’re hearts against the Messiah, but that would open the door to the gentiles, and paul says he was divinely appointed to preach to the gentiles, not the jews.

    Its fair game as the jews were the one race completely and utterly socially engineered throughout history, they get a free pass, all of them .

    all this focus on hell is the wrong way round
    God is willing that all should be saved
    God doesn’t send anyone to Hell
    The invitation is to everyone , rich poor old young black white
    If you accept Jesus you will be saved , and its a free gift

    This praecher gives the faith a bad name, there he is arguing with the police pointing finger, waving his hand in their face,
    the fruit of the spirit is self-control and patience
    he displayed none , so is a he bad ambassador .

    When I go out alone, or meeting others on the steet, its the opposite
    I might pray for people , ask them first.
    I might ask if someone is in pain and try to heal via the holy spirit
    If someone gets into a dialogue
    the soundbite given is split into parts
    1) you’re fucked 2) the good news is Christ has dealt with all of it , so you’re no longer fucked

    ( i don’t use the word fucked ofc )

    Jesus is gracious, he doesn’t bully his way in, but stands ready to hear to those who knock

    the famous painting The Light of the World

    https://dantisamor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/hunt-light-of-the-world1.jpeg

    The Light of the World (1851–1853) is an allegorical painting by the English Pre-Raphaelite artist William Holman Hunt (1827–1910) representing the figure of Jesus preparing to knock on an overgrown and long-unopened door, illustrating Revelation 3:20: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me”. According to Hunt: “I painted the picture with what I thought, unworthy though I was, to be by Divine command, and not simply as a good Subject.”[1] The door in the painting has no handle, and can therefore be opened only from the inside, representing “the obstinately shut mind”.[2] Hunt, 50 years after painting it, felt he had to explain the symbolism.[3]

  19. //Its fair game as the jews were the one race completely and utterly socially engineered throughout history, they get a free pass, all of them//

    Kurt, now you’re being like Patrick. Of all the people in the world, Jews and only Jews will always get a free pass doing the same actions for which anyone else would be damned.

    That’s the most insane theological interpretation I have ever heard, and, boy, that’s saying something. Even if it were true, which it cannot be, it deserves nothing but contempt and ridicule.

    BTW, that painting was on the cover of our book of Christian Knowledge in school.

  20. Noel, the context is this though

    24For if you were cut from a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into one that is cultivated, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.…

    That is very specific, “esp until the full number of gentiles has come in ”

    later on The Ingrafting of the Gentiles

    …13I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

    But on your objection, I don’t agree that’s what he or I is saying
    no-one gets a free pass for any action , perhaps I didn’t make that clear.

    All jews will be saved, but that gateway and the only entrance for jews and gentiles alike
    is through the way of Christ

    But the long term plan is God is going to soften the hearts of the jews so that they will repent and accept the saviour – its already happening the messianic jew fellowship is going way up in numbers .. Its great

    Nice, on your book at at school , wonderful
    I stumbled upon it as to why the door-knob wasn’t present on some random youtube adventure 😉

  21. Dig a little deeper into the case and all may not be as first appeared. As was argued by the prosecutor, Oluwole Ilesanmi had crossed the line between legitimate freedom of expression and being threat to public order. He was not arrested or prosecuted for preaching, or even for saying “Muslims are going to Hell”. He was however arrested and prosecuted for turning his attention to specific individual. He went from saying “Muslims are going to Hell” to saying that a specific person was going to Hell. He wasn’t preaching. He was having an argument with another person. He got in that person’s face and screamed that that person was going to Hell.

    He got in the face of another person and screamed at him, that that person was going to Hell. Thus it went from preaching, a protected act, to religiously aggravated harassment, which is not a protected act.

    And for an American comparison (given Patrick’s holier-than-thou now attitude), as was found in Virginia v. Black:

    And, just as one cannot burn down someone’s house to make a political point and then seek refuge in the First Amendment, those who hate cannot terrorize and intimidate to make their point

    One can preach, in the public square, and is legally protected in doing so. However, you cannot use those protections to harass or intimidate other people. Mr Ilesanmi was not preaching. He was harrassing. As such the protections on speech, particularly the protections on religious speech, do not apply.

  22. But the long term plan is God is going to soften the hearts of the jews so that they will repent

    The Jews have no need to “ soften their hearts “ or to “repent” because they don’t follow your ideas

    Their hearts are fine the way it is

  23. “All jews will be saved, but that gateway and the only entrance for jews and gentiles alike
    is through the way of Christ”

    Any Heaven that has Ian Paisley but doesn’t have Mahatma Gandhi is a Heaven I don’t want to go to. I can’t speak for your God. But my God is a God of peace and tolerance. A God of turning the other cheek. The idea that God could be so utterly petty that He would condemn someone to an eternity of suffering for not believing in him is almost offensive. I think God is bigger than that.

  24. that is an accurate summary of the facts seamus ,
    and this thread on topic is a perfect example of how a lazy headline
    is completely misleading

    lol seamus you threw your peace and tolerance out the window there attacking God
    hey ho , I guess ya missed the clear discrepancy.

    Now once again you got your facts wrong
    The God of the bible is willing that all shall be saved
    people self-exclude from the free gift and benefits that lead to eternal life
    its man who is bloody and arrogant ,prideful , boastful not the Almighty
    He offers the Olive branch via Jesus and yes its a condition of Entry, as it should be
    it has to be the leveller, or they’d be riots in heaven !

    Now as regards Ghandi , the Great White Throne in Revelations is the Final Judgement ( second death )
    That’s the place where all who have died and not believed face Him
    It will all be clear whos is who, and I’m confident Ghandi and others like him will sail through. as they will then accept Christ.

    but there’s a consequence not not accepting him on Earth
    he will have missed the first resurrection, due to unbelief, the 1000 years rule and the return of the Lamb of God.

    proof:

    “Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. Rev 20:6

    One of the infuriating things about Catholicism is you’re not taught to read the book
    just listen to a mass on a sunday, the other side are wayy ahead as they dive into it and explore it as you should do every day for wisdom, and direction , comfort in troubled times

    so its No wonder in these debates you all come completely unarmed with a whole bunch of superstitions and nonsense, but I’m happy to be of service and debunk it, get you back on the right track 🙂

    But I won’t be thanked as the old adage “no good deed goes unpunished” takes primacy here !

  25. Their hearts are fine the way it is

    They’re not they’re hardened against the Messiah

  26. “One of the infuriating things about Catholicism is you’re not taught to read the book”

    The Bible is not infallible. It includes things that are clearly not true. This it should be used as guide, not the end all and be all.

  27. “lol seamus you threw your peace and tolerance out the window there attacking God”

    I didn’t attack God. I defending Him against those who would have us believe that God is a spoilt, petty child.

  28. They don’t believe in the Meeaiah

    That doesn’t mean that they’re hearts are hard

    Unless you say that others hearts are hardened against the tooth fairy and Santa Claus because they don’t believe in Them

    Even the most secular Jews, of whom there are many, take exceptional offense at you guys talking like that and trying to delegitimize them or to change them

    Cultivate your own garden

  29. phantom you’re talking foolishly , this convo is not human wisdom which is all you have to offer , its based on divine utterings, transmitted to us through several sources
    jesus himself, the prophets, st.paul and john of the revelations

    you want to argue with God’s word, go right ahead, see how that works out for ya

    here’s a scripture for you

    “Proverbs 14:12: There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death”

  30. //take exceptional offense at you guys talking like that and trying to delegitimize them or to change them//

    Exactly, let them be. There’s almost always at least some intolerance and bigotry in fundamental religious beliefs – whether Christian, Muslim or Jewish.
    The good news is that there are probably too few fundamental Christians around to cause mischief.

    //This it should be used as guide, not the end all and be all.//

    Yes, there’s something attractive in the Catholic notion that the faith is the product of a long tradition and human experience and development.

  31. I didn’t attack God. I defending Him against those who would have us believe that God is a spoilt, petty child.

    that’s not true, you have accused God of being petty minded and vindictive
    because there is passages in the bible you don’t like
    He ahs proven he is a God of turning the other Jesus, by sending his Son to die a gruesome
    death on a cross .

    You weigh Tolerance in your own earthy mind/ways , and its not the Mind of Christ

    Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”

  32. “that’s not true, you have accused God of being petty minded and vindictive”

    No I didn’t. I pointed out that He is not those things, despite your attempts to portray Him as such.

  33. There’s almost always at least some intolerance and bigotry

    that’s the usual trope you get from those who don’t wish to understand at a deeper level
    self-satisfied , smug displaying ignorance and only human understanding.

    God is way above your ways and mine Noel , but your mind is closed to how to understand his ways and so you just throw out insults at your opponents, it doesn’t wash with me mate .

    everything claim I make I back it up from the Word of God

    Nothing you say is backed up, its just your own carnal flesh getting in the way of what is Truth, be good to go on a retreat and cast down some of these foolish imaginations and have your mind renewed in Christ ..

  34. sorry seamus but you have , by characterizing certain verses that you don’t like you accuse God of being petty and vindictive, so you’re doing the attacking not the defending
    I’m defending his Word, you’re attacking his Word

    you’ve misinterpreted his word, via human imaginations, its that simple and why you feel the need to throw out accusations on those that believe his word !

    check it out

  35. “everything claim I make I back it up from the Word of God”

    God didn’t write the Bible. Christ didn’t write the Bible. It is the story of God as told by man, not the Word of God.

  36. “I’m defending his Word, you’re attacking his Word”

    Not His word. Man’s word about Him.

    “sorry seamus but you have , by characterizing certain verses that you don’t like you accuse God of being petty and vindictive, so you’re doing the attacking not the defending”

    The God you describe is petty and vindictive. My God is not.

  37. Any Heaven that has Ian Paisley but doesn’t have Mahatma Gandhi is a Heaven I don’t want to go to.

    Any heaven that has Mahatma Gandhi is a heaven I don’t want to go to. 😁

  38. guys all you’re doing is stoning to death st.paul and st.john by attacking Gods Word
    like a gang of OT zealots who did the same to Jesus, because the word is sharper than a two-edged sword causes such anger in mens hearts . They tear their robes.

    we all killed him
    the difference is I have stopped, I suggest you do the same and get to know HIS ways and not YOUR ways, and you only find out about HIS ways by diving into the Word Of God

    not throwing stones and rocks at Him on a silly right wing blog

  39. Reading through the comments provides a perfect example of why different religions, or even people within the same religion can never get along.

  40. Neither St. Paul or St. John were stoned to death.

    And it isn’t God’s word. It is man’s words about God. There is a difference.

  41. No one, Jew or Gentile, needs to respond to Christian prosletizing.

    Many from our lands who were raised in Christian families drift away from it without necessarily rejecting it.

    Doesn’t mean that the hearts of these are in any way hard. Many of these would be good, open, giving and kind people, and a number are quite spiritual.

  42. Patrick

    Perfect example that all euros are really totalitarian communists.

    What is?

  43. Phantom,

    No one, Jew or Gentile, needs to respond to Christian prosletizing

    Spot on Phantom.
    Let’s not forget in the old testament many believe the Jews, (by descent from the Israelites), are god’s chosen people.
    They get special treatment. 😁

  44. Very many of the world’s problems have been caused by supremicists who wish to convert all men to supposedly universal religions – Christianity, Islam, Communism, whatever.

    If you want to believe this stuff, go right ahead. Leave me alone.

    One of the many things I admire about Judaism is that they don’t generally prosletize at all. Some will try to bring a wayward Jew back into the fold, but you won’t see them try to convert a gentile. That to me shows greater respect to others than you see from a universal belief system spreader trying to get others to see ” the light “, the light being his own beliefs, which the other supposedly ignorant guy hasn’t been smart enough to learn yet.

  45. //or even people within the same religion can never get along.//

    Especially they.
    There’s an interesting and amusing (and I’m sure true) account in The God Delusion of how the authorities in the early United States were able to push through the idea of separation of state and religion in a society that was very religious at the time. They said for example, “Yes, Mr Methodist, we could incorporate some of your beliefs in our laws, and then we’re going to have to do the same for the Quakers and the Catholics and Presbyterians”. They changed the options according to who they were speaking to.

    The result was that everyone supported separation as they all preferred to have a neutral state than one that also pandered to their hated rivals in the other church down the road. The authorities took advantage of mutual Schadenfreude and it worked wonderfully.

  46. All of the objections raised are dealt with here
    In straightforward ways

    https://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestudies/articles/evangelism/tcw-2000-002-7.62.html

    Hope you find break through gentlemen
    Maybe if some of you took a few steps you’d find the love joy peace that you all refuse to talk about
    In other words the good news of promise kept promise fulfilled

  47. Because the Bible is God’s Word and God cannot lie (Isaiah 55:10-11; John 17:17; Titus 1:2; Hebrews 4:12), it’s totally trustworthy, free from any error. God’s Word is described as “the word of truth” (2 Corinthians 6:7; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:15; James 1:18). Inerrancy isn’t a theory about the Bible; it’s the teaching of the Bible itself.

    What most people claim as errors in the Bible aren’t errors but difficulties.

    Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod and during the governorship of Quirinius. So says the Bible. Herod died in 4BC, and Quirinius wasn’t appointed as Legate until 6AD. So Jesus had to have been born before 4BC but couldn’t have been born until after 6AD. So either the Bible has an error or Jesus was born in a DeLorean.

  48. still in the trenches I see seamus, smh

    “The LORD your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.

    have you got any favourite verses that move you ?

  49. So either the Bible has an error or Jesus was born in a DeLorean.

    Whist I’m turning the water into wine, you get this baby up to 88 miles an hour…😁

  50. lol that’s funny
    but heck it don’t matter about dates , as long as you get to know him
    loads of ways open to people to do that
    Alpha Courses, reading the gospels, hymns, psalms, worship music , pilgrimages, retreats, Gregorian chants even lol

    DaveA got any favourite verses that stir you still – Old Testament or New ?
    something that can be accessed on a spiritual level , aside from strictures or belief even ?

  51. “still in the trenches I see seamus, smh”

    Any answer as to how Jesus could only have been born before 4BC but had to have been born after 6AD?

    “have you got any favourite verses that move you ?”

    And He said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

    35,526 verses in the Bible. But if you learn those 3 then you will be a better man and a better Christian than if you learn the other 35,523.

  52. I get the bit about the neighbour, but if God exists, it’s a very abstract thing beyond human ken (which partly explains why there are so many totally different versions of God’s true nature all over the world, such that people are prepared to kill and die for theirs), and I have a hard job understanding how any person can, genuinely, “love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind”. How can you love anything that you do not know and have very little indication of its nature, or even that it exists?

    That to me smacks of loving something just for the sake of loving it.

  53. One’s perception of God, whether one believes in God, or gods, or whether one doesn’t believe in God, is a purely personal thing. We don’t ‘know’ God’s nature but each of us individually can feel what God means to us on an individual level. So it is possible love God even if you don’t know His nature, because, at least on an individual level, you can feel His nature.

    For me loving God is about genuinely trying to do your best. Trying to be a good person. Now some of that will be encompassed by the love your neighbour part. But a lot of it will not. There is plenty of good that one can do just by yourself, for yourself (not in a selfish way but in being the best you that you can be).

    I’ve long believed that there is a lot of crossover between certainly my perception of faith and other branches of philosophy. So the one that springs to mind is Maslow. The whole concept of self-actualisation. To be the best you possibly can be.

    So to love God is to seek to be the best that you possibly can be. And to love your neighbour is to help them become the best they possibly can be.

  54. We don’t ‘know’ God’s nature

    But we do though seamus , he came down as a baby in mary’s womb , and led a ministry for 3 years that ended in crucifixion , resurrection and ascension , and the helper the holy spirit came upon the disciples at pentecost which gave them the wisdom to go out and spread the message

    Jesus replied, “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been with you all this time? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

  55. That is a belief. It is a question of faith, not knowledge.

  56. knowledge is horizontal, wisdom is vertical
    ofc its faith, that’s what we’re talking about .

    I’m staggered you got through four paragraphs at 9:02
    and could not bring yourself a mention of father son or holy ghost

    I didn’t realise you were playing with an empty hand

    even jesus said if you don’t believe in me, believe in the works I do

    and it was religion he came to destroy , as all his rows were with the Pharisees
    the false teachers of religion. He made all things knew
    I can’t believe you have missed the whole thing , and you call that knowledge

    still time to get to know Him,
    the Trinity is 3 persons in 1 , all equal

  57. “and could not bring yourself a mention of father son or holy ghost”

    I did. I believe I mentioned God 7 times. So I mentioned the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit 7 times.

    “I can’t believe you have missed the whole thing , and you call that knowledge”

    There is no knowledge when it comes to faith. If you had knowledge then you wouldn’t need faith. Faith is believing something when one possesses a lack of knowledge about the answer. You cannot have both faith in something and knowledge of it. The later renders the former obsolete.

  58. balderdash entirely mate

    the bible is full of wisdom and knowledge its just a knowing ( knowledge ) that is not primarily intellectual and materially based, at its essence its the knowledge of God
    The highest form of knowledge and spiritual understanding

    one of my favourite quotes: foretelling Jesus

    Isaiah 11:2
    And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.

    here’s a 100 more or so

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/knowledge

    if you don’t get out of your head and into your heart/soul/spirit the whole thing will always be gibberish to that man

    the bible has to be spiritually discerned

    here’s some on faith

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/faith_in_god

    Hebrews 11:1
    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

    For we walk by faith, not by sight.

  59. Seamus

    There is no knowledge when it comes to faith. If you had knowledge then you wouldn’t need faith. Faith is believing something when one possesses a lack of knowledge about the answer. You cannot have both faith in something and knowledge of it. The later renders the former obsolete.

    Absolutely spot-on.

  60. No it isn’t Dave a faith is a lifestyle
    You guys haven’t got a clue
    But thank you for your comments

  61. //You guys haven’t got a clue//

    Thus speaks the Bible expert: I am right and the rest of you haven’t a clue.

    kurt, loosen up, be a bit tolerant. As another prophet said: “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken”.

  62. Noel
    Its a misleading statement to weigh faith and knowledge
    They’re not opposites , but these 2 wise-guys think they are
    and sneer at faith, thinking they’re wise, that’s pride, the deadliest
    bible is full of proverbs that show the foolishness of such an approach

    here’s one for ya
    There’s 2 trees in the bible of importance
    the tree of knowledge and the tree of life

    mans condition is fallen because he ate from the tree of knowledge
    which sets up mans wisdom versus gods wisdom

    the tree of life , appears in the garden of Eden and then at the end in revelations
    Its a sacred thing to eat of that, the promise is you live forever, which is why adam and eve were expelled and an angel with a flaming sword protected the way back !

    The translation is (esp these days)
    mans boast and pride seeks after the tree of knowledge and poohs poohs the tree of life.
    its a fatal mistake , but these jokers seamus and DaveA have made their choice

    I’ve shown adding knowledge is horizontal but wisdom is vertical
    I’ve shown many things, but the foolish mock the wisdom of God
    and wide are the gates that leads to death , narrow is the path that leads to life.

    I’ve been on the journey where these guys are , i was a fully fledged tree of knowledge man, but made the journey across that river into the promised land, it wasn’t easy but its a better place to be – the tree of life is wonderful .

    outside are lost, and they don’t even know it .

    Yes it saddens me and fucks me up , as it has consequences mate and unusually for me is not a subject where levity is possible, its a serious thing what fruit you’re eating , what is your daily bread .

    I’m sure we’ll return to it again and again .

    Let them be wise in their own conceit , that’s what knowledge does to you it puffs you up

    But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 1 cor 8:1

    Not an expert just read the book and alot about the book, dived into it
    though none go with me, i still will follow, no turning back no turning back
    you realize one day its the most important thing,

    but you can’t share it much, as each comes to it when they’ve come to the end of themselves.

  63. but these 2 wise-guys think they are
    and sneer at faith, thinking they’re wise,

    Kurt, for the umpteenth time of asking, STOP F****** LYING.
    I am not sneering at faith. I have no problem with people having a personal belief.
    Criticism of religion is not sneering at faith.

  64. ooh a nerve there daveA
    I disagree
    knowledge sets itself up and puffeth up , that hit would explain your puffed up outburst,
    on many occasions you reveal your rage is just below the surface, same with your buddy seamus.
    Bring it out lad , and on the next thread be great ( see below)

    but I tell you what if pat will let me
    I’ll do a thread on

    The Tree of Life versus the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
    and we’ll see how you fare on that one ,
    you and seamus are going to have to decide who is the head and who is the arse
    of your panto horse comedy routine , should be a blast !
    stay tooned

  65. ooh a nerve there daveA

    Yes Kurt, when you repeatedly tell lies about me it does touch a nerve.
    This is your last warning Kurt, knock it off.

  66. Any religous based post called the “Tree of knowledge” can only be FAKE NEWS 🙂

  67. // these 2 wise-guys think they are
    and sneer at faith, thinking they’re wise, that’s pride, the deadliest//

    Kurt, imagine one day you land in the Amazon jungle or the Celebes or some remote place. Imagine you then meet people there who tell you that they worship a big otter that came up out of a river. This otter then turned into a young white virgin with green hair, she spoke to them, telling them that if everyone dived into the river they’d become pure and white like her. She then touched some of them and their hair all turned green (unfortunately they have long since died, leaving no trace), before herself turning into a cloud shaped like a big blowpipe and floating off, etc.

    We all know that all of us, including you, would in such a case exercise our rational judgement and be very skeptical of these tales. We would point out that an otter can’t turn into a girl, and a girl into a cloud. We would pity the people and try to convince them that they are wrong. We certainly wouldn’t accept that faith, and would, at least privately laugh at such bizarre beliefs.

    But even if we only questioned it – you, kurt, and the rest of us – would that not make us all guilty of pride, the most deadly of all vices, and expose us to the same condescending criticism you are now giving us?

  68. DaveA I’m happy to leave you stewing in your own juices , I did not LIE
    you whole outlook on life is based upon a LIE, and that’s why you lose it when pricked !

    But we shall settle matters on the tree of life/knowledge thread

    in Truth Noel, I haven’t noticed any good questions, just mild insults condescension and disbelief from those clinging to the poisoned fruit of the tree of knowledge .

    its a very old worn-out, lifeless script , that can’t get beyond itself

    The jews were just like that in the desert for 40 years before entering , even as they were given miracles , water form rocks, mans hardening is nothing knew under the sun .

    I’ll cook up a good dinner on next thread and do some slicing and dicing , in a very professional manner, that’s the challenge I accept .

    There’ll be foul language and rage, as the cowboys get stirred up, but not from me 😉

  69. It isn’t evidence of any hard heart to not accept a particular faith.

    I’d think that many of the most kind, loving, giving, curious, open minded people that all of us know aren’t believers in Christianity, or in any other faith.

  70. im afraid you’re missing the point bro phantom
    its about cleanliness inside

    There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. Pro:30:12
    This is NOT the almighty mucking about and wasting his time .
    There is a decision to be made in each heart , do you accept Christ yes or no ?

    Its not rocket science, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God

    therefore, ipso facto if you refuse that gift its because your heart is hardened against the gospel message .

    No in between , this is what your struggle is
    you want an in between and it isn’t available I’m afraid
    its for or against

  71. That’s sectarian supremacy

    No thanks

  72. im afraid you’re missing the point bro phantom
    its about cleanliness inside

    Oh no kurt, you’re not about to start promoting Trump’s bleach injection theories are you ? 🙂

  73. There’s a lot of talk of hard hearts in this thread, but the only one I can see is yours, Kurt.
    Dave is making fair points, and Seamus has a different – and, it must be said, more tolerant – interpretation of God and the Bible than you, but all you can do is argue against both of them. Just because they disagree with you does not make them wrong.
    If your faith is so strong, it shouldn’t matter in the slightest what either of them believe or don’t believe – it’s your own faith that matters, not theirs.

    Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod and during the governorship of Quirinius. So says the Bible. Herod died in 4BC, and Quirinius wasn’t appointed as Legate until 6AD. So Jesus had to have been born before 4BC but couldn’t have been born until after 6AD. So either the Bible has an error or Jesus was born in a DeLorean.

    This made me laugh. Jesus had to be born before 4BC or after 6AD – so he had to be born just before 4 years before he was born, or born just before 6 years after he was born?

    And the worst thing about this is that there are people here who, rather than accept that this is absurd, will insist it’s true and accurate, and when asked how they know this?
    Faith.

  74. There are two images that made such a laughing stock of Christianity that I honestly don’t think the religion will ever be the same again.

    One was this

    https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/565/5c8/5e4627443c3abec9eb35dfaa7cf1c3e01c-trump-with-bible-dc-protests.rhorizontal.w700.jpg

  75. But of course nothing, absolutely nothing, beats this

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/president-donald-trump-and-faith-leaders-pray-in-the-oval-office-at-picture-id841599608?s=2048×2048

  76. Phantom,

    I’d think that many of the most kind, loving, giving, curious, open minded people that all of us know aren’t believers in Christianity, or in any other faith.

    God bless you Phantom, that comment touched my heart. 😁

  77. Noel

    Who is the token peroxide bimbo with the lovely pearl necklace ? 🙂

  78. phantom you’re truly lost bro because all the good stuff you refer to is there already
    no-one is arguing about that, except you by setting up a false claim that that virtue list is in opposition to Christianity. completely false

    It’s at the heart of it

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    clear enough ?

    does that touch your heart DaveA
    or not ? because its written in the bible ?