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Persecution

By Patrick Van Roy On October 11th, 2020

As of Oct. 7, worship services are prohibited or currently subject to unequal treatment (compared to nonreligious activities) in six states (California, Nevada, Virginia, Maine, New Jersey, and Connecticut).

Another 13 states and Washington, D.C., have restrictions that limit churches’ ability to gather for worship or other religious activities but that are facially equal to the restrictions on comparable secular activities.

Despite obvious violations of First Amendment protections, earlier this week New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo once again threatened to shut down churches and synagogues if they do not follow the state’s regulations on capacity limitations, mask-wearing, and social distancing.

Unfortunately, Cuomo is just another in a long string of governors and mayors that have used the pandemic to restrict religious liberty and provide unnecessary barriers to those who wish to freely practice their faith.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom has been doing this for some time and Gov. Steve Sisolak of Nevada has shown preferential treatment to casinos for months and continues to do so even after being taken to the Supreme Court by Calvary Chapel Dayton Valley to challenge his mandates.

75 Responses to “Persecution”

  1. Worse than the Nazis.

  2. so if their not being rounded up and thrown in ovens it’s not persecution….. so the Irish Catholics were never persecuted then…. got it.

  3. They’re being prevented from gathering to collectively practise religion, not from practising religion. Irish Catholice were jailed, killed and genocided on account of both their their religion and / or nationality.

    What you are suggesting is hyperbolic exaggeration. These Christians are not being ‘persecuted’ they are having physical gathering restricted if they don’t follow state regulations on preventing transmitting Covid.

  4. Nice answer Pat. I read somewhere where a church got around the law by holding a service in a casino!

  5. Nice answer Paul. Totally correct too.

  6. Paul, that is persecution. “Where two or more gather in my name, there I shall be.” When people are allowed to go to a casino, but not to a church, that is discrimination. Is that a better word for it?

  7. Nice answer Pat.

    ?

    It’s a ridiculous comparison, Charles

  8. Catholics and Jews are being jailed here Paul.

    They haven’t started busting down their front doors yet, but in NYC it’s getting close to that.

    you really don’t know what you are talking about…. persecution can only be defined by how the Irish were persecuted in Ireland, you even equate your persecution to that of the Jews in Germany and Poland.

    You over exaggerate your personal situation while dismissing others.

  9. All so called Christian leaders who complain about public health rules that prevent crowd gatherings are charlatans whose real annoyance is the restrictions that hamper their ability to fleece their flock of onsite cash collections.

  10. You really don’t know what you are talking about

    Oh, I think I do.

    You even equate your persecution to that of the Jews in Germany and Poland

    Really? I don’t think I ever have, at all.

    Catholics and Jews are being jailed here Paul.

    For what? Is it only Catholics & Jews are being ‘persecuted?’ If Protestants, Muslims, Hindus etc are also having their gatherings restricted wouldn’t in be somewhat sectarian not to include them in the ‘persecuted’ hyperbole too?

  11. so 400 people can be in a Costco (Supermarket) but only 10 can be in a church or synagogue….

    I guess the virus only likes to feed on church people not shoppers…….

  12. Catholics and Jews are not being jailed for their faith. If anyone is over exaggerating it is you Patrick. There is absolutely no persecution on religious grounds in the USA.

  13. It’s the unequal treatment that bothers me. Yes 400 in Walmart good, 40 in church bad, 400 in a casino good, 40 in church bad. If the state collected taxes in church, it would be a whole different ballgame, I assure you. Follow the tax revenue.

  14. Paul just stepped out micolene o’flynn just stepped in…….lol

    all religions except muslims are being treated like this in 7 democrat states. so far the majority of arrests have been jews, but catholics, and protestants have been locked up all over the country for attending church.

    you don’t know what you are talking about, it’s not an insult, it’s just fact.

  15. It’s the unequal treatment that bothers me.

    You agree that while it might be unequal treatment it’s not religious ‘persecution?’

    Are people being restricted from socialising in bars or dining in restaurants also being ‘persecuted?’

    You don’t know what you are talking about, it’s not an insult, it’s just fact.

    As aomeone who as experienced actual violence on account of percieved religious affiliation let me assure you I do know what I’m talking about, Pat.

  16. Patrick

    Do you have any evidence that people have been jailed for attending church or synagogue, or that rules have allowed crowds to attend mosques but not other religious buildings .?

  17. As I said Paul, discrimination might be a better word for what’s happening here.

  18. when you single out religious groups it IS religious persecution

  19. They’re not being “ singled out “ here

    Sports events, concerts, etc are also shut down

  20. Patrick

    Can you post any State regulation that says restrictions are based on what God you worship?

  21. you’re going to equate the shutting of sporting events with what’s going on with the jews in your city….. I know you’ve been critical of the hasidic behavior and some of it rightly so, but you can’t compare sporting cathedrals with worship ones no matter how much sports is your religion…..

  22. Are people being restricted from socialising in bars or dining in restaurants also being ‘persecuted?’

    So?

    All religions except muslims are being treated like this in 7 democrat states.

    I’ll look forward to you proving that, Pat:

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/stay-at-home-policies-treat-mosques-same-as-churches/

    But you can’t compare sporting cathedrals with worship ones

    Why? Does Covid stop at the doors of temples?

  23. As was previously stated, what’s the rational for letting 400 people in a Walmart, and 10 in a church. And don’t say b/c people need food. Man does not live by bread alone.

  24. They’re not being singled out

    And most Jews here are very unhappy with the conduct of the Hasidic lawbreakers

  25. As was previously stated, what’s the rational for letting 400 people in a Walmart, and 10 in a church.

    I don’t know but why can’t the same argument be made against Walmart and bars, restaurants, cinemas, swimming pools etc?

  26. People do buy food in Walmart, yes you are right

    You can pray at home but you can’t grow your own food

  27. the rational is religious persecution.

    Just because here in america the persecution doesn’t take the form of violence doesn’t change the fact that it’s persecution.

    A different standard is being applied to one group in comparison to others. That is both persecution and discrimination, and is something abhorrent in the american culture.

  28. You can pray at home but you can’t grow your own food

    tell that to my million amish neighbors

  29. The rational is religious persecution

    It’s not. People are not being prevented from practising their religion.

    A different standard is being applied to one group in comparison to others.

    See my point above re restaurant diners, bar drinkers, cinema goers, swimmers etc.

  30. I say treat all venues the same. Mask, 6 feet distance, whether a sports stadium, cathedral, casino, bar. etc.

  31. Here’s the thing…. you can say there is no persecution, but when a solid bloc of democrat voters (the hasidicJews) is protesting in the middle of NYC waving Trump flags….. I think they feel the’re being persecuted…..

  32. I say treat all venues the same.

    Yes, so do I but for whatever reason that’s not the case and couldn’t the same ‘persecution’ argument be made by restaurant diners, bar drinkers, cinema goers, swimmers etc?

    I think they feel the’re being persecuted…..

    What you think and what they speculatively feel doesn’t correspond with the reality of the situation.

  33. The ultra orthodox Jews openly disrespect the law in New York City, and upstate New York, and in Israel

    In New York City, the only areas with bad virus rates are in the Orthodox neighborhoods. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-10-07/israeli-police-clash-with-ultra-orthodox-over-virus-rules

  34. I think we’re hung up on the word persecution. To me, persecution implies suffering of the persecuted. I don’t think what we have here rises to that level. It is however religious discrimination, at least in the six states listed that treats venues differently.

  35. It is however religious discrimination

    But is it really, Charles? Are those other groups mentioned above and any other group being restricted from gathering not being discriminated against too?

  36. You could make the case that they are Paul, under freedom of assembly I suppose. That’s why I say treat all venues the same. As many have said here, rights are not absolute, when the State can show good cause for restricting them, ie. war, riots, pandemics, natural disasters ect.

  37. That’s precisely the point I’m making. It shows the ‘religious persecution / discrimination’ allegation to be the hyperbole that it is, unless there is a feeling that religious grouping should have special dispensation not available to other groups having their gatherings restricted?

    So, in those terms it’s not persecution / discrimination.

  38. The usual bullshit from the stoopid party, frantically trying to fight a culture war when they’ve lost every other.

    Are there any Republican governors and mayors issuing orders for such restrictions? Of course there are.

    Meanwhile, another Republican falsehood, and once more a fully one:

    A new Trump campaign ad quotes Dr Fauci saying he “can’t imagine that anybody could be doing more” to fight Covid-19. The ad quotes it as an endorsement of Trump’s handling of the pandemic.

    But Fauci is an intelligent man and so doesn’t support this administration. In the quote he was speaking about himself and his team’s work, and has called for the ad to be corrected or dropped.

  39. the post is complete nonsense
    places of worship are being asked to socially distance like everywhere else.

    40 is a reasonable number in an average size church
    ministers/priests can and do have several worship events on the same day to adapt

    Huge, massive walmarts can accommodate 400 people each practicing social distance

    e.g in my local waitrose the system works by queuing outside and security guards on both entrance and exit lets people in on the basis of keeping strictly to the 100 capacity in the store that has been assessed as a safe number .

  40. ” That’s why I say treat all venues the same. As many have said here, rights are not absolute, when the State can show good cause for restricting them, ie. war, riots, pandemics, natural disasters ect.”

    And the Supreme Court have already ruled on it. It is not just the number of people but the length of time each of them will be in close proximity to other people. Shopping at Walmart with 400 people does not involve you standing close beside one of them for an hour or two. Close contact, if it happens, will be brief. That is the distinction between it and a church. Churches involve mass gathering for prolonged periods of time. Similarly secular gatherings that have prolonged contact, such as for example concerts, are subject to similar or even greater restrictions.

    You aren’t comparing apples with apples here.

  41. aye seamus
    we’re hearing the cry of the fake afflicted, a manufactured victim oppression when there is nothing to see. They have something to cry about, even though its unreal, they like the crying game. Plus it looks like their Game Plan now is to beat Hilary with the emails and re-run the 2016 campaign.
    Its almost unimaginable how ridiculous is this strategy !
    It hasn’t got a hope in hell. Hilary must be laughing her head off as she’s not even standing
    so if they go after here its a complete swing and a miss .
    Be like FF going after Adams in the next election in Ireland
    He’s not even the leader of the party .. !!

  42. In churches, the congregations – especially evangelical, I’m told – are also given to emptying their lungs in hymns and pious ejaculations of worship.

    Which begs the question: Why aren’t Trump rallies also being shut down?

  43. There is of course no religious persecution and what those who claim there is are arguing for is special arrangements to be conferred on some religious groups which ordinary citizens don’t have – which is discrimination in itself.

    What is interesting here is that the article suggests that only Christians & Jews are being discriminated against, which is a pretty sectarian premise.

  44. Noel, last mass I was singing at ( 2 weeks ago tenor- choir ) , the congregation weren’t singing , they had masks on throughout ..
    on a broader point i don’t see piety in worship, its a sacrifice of praise and a joyful expression of thanksgiving, i think you got a few mixed metaphors in there surrounding the word ejaculation , which doesn’t really fit , even at a stretch mon ami

    i’m guessing you’d like more a free flow style, than often quite wooden hymns and rituals
    here’s kevin , the celtic free spirit fella, usa answer to van the man perhaps
    would you like to be in the room for this 20 mins ? might the music calm thy breast uplifting ?

  45. Kurt, you do me wrong. The only non-pious ejaculation in church I know of involved Fr Fortune (or another of those Wexford priests) at the altar.

    But that music link is really good. But it isn’t church music to my ears; reminds me very much of She Moved Through the Fair.
    I can’t imagine you singing in a choir. Where was that mass?

    When I go for church music I got for the real spiritual thing: spiritual born of suffering and despair, relieved if at all by some nebulous hope.

    Here’s my favourite piece. The great Gretchaninoff Creed. … And let my cry come unto thee.

    One of the most moving stories from WW2 IMO is that Stalin opened the churches in Moscow and Leningrad for Christmas in 1941 when the people of those cities were facing imminent annihilation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGTaL229LZE

    And of course the Miserere Mei by Allegri, sung by the Oxford choir, when I’m feeling a bit Catholic. It’s become a bit of tradition in our house that this is played every Ash Wednesday. May the judgement not be too heavy upon us.

  46. O/T

    Noel, mooncat bint Gemmental O’Doherty claims that the entire conflict in the North

    ‘could have been a staged event set up by this cabal’

    John Waters seems to agree.

    https://twitter.com/brengun66/status/1314590792221110278

    Sandy Hook and the Boston Marathon bombing on a whole different scale.

  47. Wow. 30 years of staged events involving all sides and a cast of 10s of thousands.

    1) phew, what a relief. So all those dead, maimed, bereaved people were actors after all.

    2) This “cabal” is amazing. How do I buy shares in them?

  48. Paddy Fox, Reg:

    I wish they hadn’t staged the murder of my parents I could have done without that

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/uvf-murder-of-husband-and-wife-was-part-of-cesspit-of-collusion-31326014.html

  49. Some local Catholics are saying that capacity at religious services should be increased.

    But as far as I can tell, nobody Is challenging the government’s authority to Regulate capacity.

    And I am not hearing any of them, Congregation members, or clergy, Use completely silly words like persecution

    Capacity at all buildings whee people assemble has been regulated all along, by the fire department. There’s a maximum crowd certificate posted in every public building, churches included. And no one says that the FDNY is persecuting anyone.

    https://www1.nyc.gov/site/buildings/business/place-of-assembly.page

  50. hi Noel
    There’s a whole evenings conversation in that reply , i can’t possibly do Justice to it
    are you likely ever to be in the UK , post Biden landslide ?

    that song is the same tune as Belfast Child ( simple minds ) – its great

    Yeah its a new development for me singing in a anglo-catholic high church choir , involving 15th Tudor anthems, lots of latin , Glorias, Sanctus, Agnes Dei

    On one level its a free music lesson with a choirmaster you’d pay £50 per/hr otherwise.
    On another level its pretty majestic, and the church building reflects some of that.

    Church services and song in a wooden hut is not quite the same.

    I’m not opposed to catholicism per se , but there’s 3 strands
    tradition, scripture, holy spirit
    I feel the Catholics have the triangle upside down
    The right way is Holy Spirit on top ( apex )
    tradition and scripture side by side on the bottom of the pyramid

    so its more a case of what’s missing in a catholic service , rather than what is present .

    And God said shall these bones live? Ezk 37:3

    juxtaposed with the church music as born of “suffering and despair” as you say, there is also the joy of the lord , and if we’re not providing that uplift we’re missing the best part .
    which is relationship not religion .

    we’re so hung up on religion, whereas Jesus came to abolish religion, and establish that the basis of the new covenant is relationship with God through Christ, aided by the Holy Spirit 🙂

    But in our stubborn , unyielding hearts we go back to the OT , feeling safer with unredeemable law and its concomitant judgements, rather than pursue the free gift of “righteousness by faith” which leads to all the good stuff: namely freedom , joy , peace, and holiness !!

    we’re like republicans still fighting the 2016 election
    except we go back 2000 years , crying we don’t want Jesus we want Moses and the Law

    May the Judgement be not to heavy upon us – Indeed

    ( Ash Weds – Thomas Stearns Eliot – old possum to his friends )

  51. That song is the same tune as Belfast Child

    Which is a rip off of She Moved Through The Fair:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWIaP0NnEOQ&ab_channel=kieranowens

  52. Which is a rip off of She Moved Through The Fair:

    I think calling it a rip-off is a bit harsh.

  53. Calling the stopping of people gathering in large groups for religious services discrimination, is like calling the shutting of pubs discrimination against people who like a drink. That’s just nonsense. No one is taking away people’s freedom of religion in the US.

  54. Charles

    Paul, that is persecution. “Where two or more gather in my name, there I shall be.”

    Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.

  55. Well played Dave!

  56. Charles.
    My fiance was religious, but she kept a religion very private. The only times she really went to church were Christmas, Easter and and for the poppy service.
    I used to occasionally see her praying in the bedroom, when I was checking the back door in the conservatory, (with the lights off), before going to bed so she didn’t see me watching. I actually found it incredibly moving.

  57. I think calling it a rip-off is a bit harsh

    Alright, fair enough, inspired / influenced by. It’s said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    Is like calling the shutting of pubs discrimination against people who like a drink.

    The argumant could also be made that as publicans and restauranteurs are actually losing their livelihoods as a result of restrictions on gathering they are being discriminated against most of all.

  58. Dave
    It sounds like she was a very special person. Bless.

  59. Jaysus, Paul, Mother Ireland’s still producing them.

    Where do they get that shower? Since his days at the IT, I always knew John Waters was a bit loopy, but he seems to be gone off the rails altogether now

    //we’re like republicans still fighting the 2016 election//

    Well, in Ireland until recently they were still fighting the 1918 election 🙂

    kurt, actually I probably will be in the England in the near future, COVID permitting. But I don’t trust you to remember these things. The last time we were vaguely planning the Camino de Santiago and then you disappeared from ATW. There you were – gone!

    //Church services and song in a wooden hut is not quite the same.//

    But I thought Jesus is supposed to be behind the humblest bush? A few years ago they held a mass up on a mass rock near my house outside Virginia (Cavan), like in the Penal days. That and the St Ciaran “pattern” at Castlekeeran outside Kells (which was described by Oscar Wilde’s dad as the most beautiful holy well in Ireland) were really moving for the humility of the rite and the people and to feel how our ancestors lived and worshipped in bygone days. I’d hate to see patterns die out completely in Ireland.

    Somethings like religious rituals and tea are always best enjoyed in the open air.
    Now of course with Corona there’s an added benefit.

  60. Paul

    Alright, fair enough, inspired / influenced by. It’s said that imitation is thesincerest form of flattery.

    I remember when Belfast child first came out and reached number one, Jim Kurr actually said on top of the pops that the song was influenced by an old Irish tune.
    I’ve got to say, fair play to him.
    You wouldn’t believe the number of songs that are influenced by all sorts of music, from Black soul music to classical music. Just type; ‘music rip offs’, into YouTube’s search bar.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GWMvCXdsG4

    The argumant could also be made that as publicans and restauranteurs are actually losing their livelihoods as a result of restrictions on gathering they are being discriminated against most of all.

    Well said. I’m not arguing that religious gatherings in the US have not been curtailed against more than other gatherings, but to call this religious persecution, or removal of your first amendment rights is quite clearly wrong.

  61. Very, very poignant, Dave. I hope she got comfort from that in the end.

    One of the most moving things when religious people die, I find, is that they so firmly believe that they’ll be meeting up with the rest of us again in just a little while. I know some people who died cheerfully with that reassurance.

  62. I remember when Belfast child first came out and reached number one, Jim Kurr actually said on top of the pops that the song was influenced by an old Irish tune.

    Belfast Child’s a smashing song.

    Well said. I’m not arguing that religious gatherings in the US have not been curtailed against more than other gatherings, but to call this religious persecution, or removal of your first amendment rights is quite clearly wrong

    Yep, I agree. It’s was Pat’s ‘religious persecution’ I was making the point against.

    Noel, I think that brings comfort to many but having said that, I’ve met some complete bastards in my life too who I hope never to see again 😉

    BTW, on the subject of death and music, my children have been instructed that this version of this song is to be played at my funeral:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1se8_-fcxZs&ab_channel=VitoLikavec

  63. Wild OTT and constant overstatement undermines the legitimate arguments that are to be made in favor of more social opening.

    The mask-shirking and the explaining away of it doesn’t help either.

    At the end of the day, the mask-shirkers are harming the economy and society more than anyone else is in this situation. They’re the reason that the UK and US has not reopened more.

  64. Noel,

    Very, very poignant, Dave. I hope she got comfort from that in the end.

    She died suddenly and unexpectedly mate, which in my opinion is even better, (for her), than getting comfort in your final hours. Maybe not too good for those who loved you, who never got a chance to say goodbye.

    One of the most moving things when religious people die, I find, is that they so firmly believe that they’ll be meeting up with the rest of us again in just a little while. I know some people who died cheerfully with that reassurance.

    This is an interesting one I’ve thought about many times myself. I often wonder how many religious people actually truly believe. I’ve met some religious people who truly believe, like a lady my fiance used to care for, who definitely got comfort in her final days from her beief.
    On the flip side people say atheists must be terrified t die. Again maybe some are but I’m certainly not. I wouldn’t want to suffer in pain, but the thought of death doesn’t bother me at all. Even when I was in an ambulance when they thought I’d had a stroke 10 years ago I was actually quite relaxed. the only thing that bothered me was the effect my death would have on those closest to me. As has been proven time and time again the old ‘atheists in foxholes’ claim is rubbish.
    I think what I’m trying to say is whatever works for you. 😁

  65. Paul

    BTW, on the subject of death and music, my children have been instructed that this version of this song is to be played at my funeral:

    That’s a beautiful song Paul, it’s gone straight in the music library.
    I particularly liked the lines;

    And all the sweethearts that e’er I’ve had
    they would wish me one more day to stay

  66. The thought of death doesn’t bother me at all

    I think it’s the thought of the unknown which frightens people, Dave. Surely i an’t be the only one who views death with a sense of curiosity?

    As I’ve said here many times like my views on God my views on the afterlife are agnostic in the sense that I’d like to believe but I’ve never seen any evdence to convince me although I will tell you a strange thing that happened to me.

    My father and I were very, very close and every Saturday he would come to my house for dinner and after a snooze he and I would head into town for a few pints. He died suddenly in 1999 and about two weeks after the funeral on a Saturday afternoon I was in my living room with my wife and then infant children. Now, when you’re very close to someone you can recognise them from an individual, personal smell and I smelled my father. I sat there for ten minutes and said nothing and my wife turned to me and asked ‘do you smell something?’ I said yes and she asked ‘Do You smell your father? I went out and checked the coat hangers in the hall to see if any of his coats were there and they weren’t.

    Now, I can’t explain how both my wife & I smelled the same thing without previously acknowledging it but we did and it gave me a sense of comfort.

  67. I think it’s the thought of the unknown which frightens people, Dave. Surely i an’t be the only one who views death with a sense of curiosity?

    I never said I wasn’t curious about death Paul. Just that I’m not frightened of it.
    That’s not to say I don’t want to live as long as possible, especially as I believe that there is nothing after death. But at the end of the day, nobody knows.
    I think it was Seamus or possibly Seimi who said everybody is a little bit spiritual, which I think is probably true. At heart I’d like to believe that there’s some form of reincarnation, and your essence or soul or spirit or whatever you want to call it, comes back as something new. I’m not sure I like the idea of an eternity in heaven.

    Your story is an interesting and moving one and I’ve heard similar stories from many people. In fact, I can tell you a few similar stories from personal experience. But at the end of the day, my strict, logical brain this dismisses these things without evidence.

  68. I like coincidences, as they make you the perfect sceptic, i.e. even sceptical about your own scepticism.

    Sometimes I go through periods where the weirdest coincidences all come in a bunch. Like you suddenly think of for the first time a song you knew in your youth and then it comes on the radio.

    One of the only times I saw a fox in nature (if you want to call it that in this case) was last year on a narrow grimy street close to the centre of Glasgow. I was having a stroll before turning in and I passed this building site, where there was some refuse, when suddenly a fox came out of it right in front of me. It had obviously been foraging in the waste.
    I couldn’t believe it. I think only the 2nd time I’d seen a fox in my life; and then so close and in the middle of a city! – I hurried to the end of the street to read the name plate so I could tell my host what I’d seen – it was “Fox Street”. I swear.

  69. https://www.streetlist.co.uk/g/g1/g1-4/fox-street

  70. Coincidences are weird. Our daughter was born in the Summer with Down Syndrome. It was only later we found out my wife’s birthday is on World Down Syndrome Day.

    Funny your point about foxes, Noel. Growing up in the country I only saw them sporadically but where I live in Dublin they are everywhere. Very often when I go for a run or walk after dark I will see them slinking around the streets.

  71. Yes, and apparently a lot of foxes are now moving into and breeding in cities across the UK.

    https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=35957&p=0

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52892194

  72. Smart animals can adapt to the urban landscape very well.

    We don’t AFAIK have foxes in NYC but we now have coyotes.

    They used to be just out west, but they’re all over North America now, cities definitely included.

    https://nypost.com/2019/06/29/coyote-sightings-in-nyc-are-surging-and-mostly-in-manhattan/

  73. I know that area of Glasgow well. One of the worst hotels I ever stayed in, 30 years ago now, was just around the corner from Fox Street on Union Street, called Duncan’s Hotel. There was a fossilised s*** in the wardrobe, and that was one of its good points.

    When I first moved into the house I live in now, I used to see a lot of foxes around the area, especially late at night. But after a few years of living here, I didn’t see them anymore which I thought was strange. Then one of my name is pointed out the foxes disappeared at the same time we made the switch from black bin bags to wheelie bins.

  74. //Coincidences are weird. Our daughter was born in the Summer with Down Syndrome. It was only later we found out my wife’s birthday is on World Down Syndrome Day.//

    And what county is Mourne in?

    Another weird one was what triggered a murder investigation into the absolutely bizarre case of Graham Dwyer.

    What ruined his chances of the disappearance of his victim remaining unsolved forever was when certain sex paraphenalia (sp?) were found in a reservoir in Wicklow after the water had dropped to extremely low levels due to the long hot summer. Even then the evidence was found only by a complete fluke.

    The body of his victim was discovered somewhere far away on the very same day, over a year after her murder.

    And on that same day, when all these discoveries were being made, both Dywer and his wife were out celebrating as they both had a birthday on the same day.
    And, yes, the day in question was Friday 13th.

  75. Noel,
    Outdoors is great, a old tin hut not so great, but on point you’re right
    Its not the place, its what’s going on .
    Iraqi’s and Chinese and in other places Christians have to meet to avoid persecution in basements. We don’t know how lucky we are in comparison .

    according to this wonderful documentary the last reformation is when the church goes to the streets

    The Last Reformation – The Beginning (2016) – FULL MOVIE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zka4DUYeJ5g

    DaveA/seamus with your love of good docs I recommend it 🙂

    ooh i just noticed a sequel

    I will remember if you’re coming over – to england

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