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LOCKDOWNS KILL

By Pete Moore On October 19th, 2020

While the BBC reinforces fear on its front page we must dig into the “Health” section for the real news. It’s both heartbreaking and scandalous.

Deaths at home: More than 26,000 extra this year, ONS finds

More men than normal are dying at home from heart disease in England and Wales, and more women are dying from dementia and Alzheimer’s, figures show.

More than 26,000 extra deaths occurred in private homes this year, an analysis by the Office for National Statistics found.

In contrast, deaths in hospitals from these causes have been lower than usual.

The Covid epidemic may have led to fewer people being treated in hospital.

Gee, I wonder if there’s a link to the NHS becoming the National Covid Service for most of the year. You still can’t see a GP. The vets are open so your dog is in luck but if grandad needs a doctor he needn’t bother lifting the phone.

Deaths at home due to heart disease, cancers, respiratory illnesses, dementia and Alzheimers are all hugely above the five year average for the period. We know this. We know that tens of thousands of people have been dying because they have been receiving the attention they need and have paid for. So it’s 26,000 and counting and it’s a toll which will go up for years. Yet still the lockdown addicts demand more and greater lockdowns. The virus is mild to asymptomatic for the vast majority of people who become infected, so we are now at the point of zealotry with these people. Nothing will make them see sense. The Prime Minister, last week, accused people opposed to lockdowns of wanting to let the virus “rip though the country”. What he has done is let all the other diseases and illnesses rip through the country instead.

39 Responses to “LOCKDOWNS KILL”

  1. Fair comments.

    I suppose the question is: is the treatment worse than the disease?

  2. Maybe those who refused to wear masks should issue an apology to the British public.

    They cry about the lockdown that they themselves are the cause of.

    Brass neck squared.

  3. we don’t have enough beds , this virus is testing our NHS resources to the max
    Its the same in every country, ,that’s why its called a pandemic. It kills
    and what’s you’re talking about is secondary deaths petem, no less important.

    easing lockdown will just incapacitate the hospitals at an even faster rate
    which means more deaths, that’s the logic of where you’re going.

    if you had enough sense to even follow your own thoughts to conclusion, you’d see that,
    but ya don’t as your attention span like all facists and fakers is less than that of a gnat

  4. Phantom –

    Not wearing a mask increases the risks of cancer, dementia and heart disease?

    How does that work?

  5. You guys are part of a movement that has encouraged non compliance among the ignoranti about wearing masks which led to wider spread which is a direct cause of this lockdown.

    The mask wearing Asians are open.

    How many times must this be said.

  6. No one should wear masks.

    There should be no lockdowns nor restrictions on gatherings.

    All departments of all hospitals should be open and working normally.

    Give Pete something to really complain about in his utopia and once the mortality rate spins enormously out of control Pete will find some way to blame it on the commie NHS.

  7. Pete Moore,

    Phantom –

    Not wearing a mask increases the risks of cancer, dementia and heart disease?

    How does that work?

    Then he goes and spoils it, all by saying something stupid, like he always does.

  8. Tesco will give followup cancer care for £19.99 and will throw in a four pack of London Pride if you have the coupon

  9. “the NHS becoming the National Covid Service”

    While with Pete’s approach the NHS would be soon overwhelmed and wouldn’t even be that. It would also do barely any of the other things it still does. The virus is the root cause. It’s like complaining about the problems caused by the blackout during the blitz, while failing to notice that the Luftwaffe are the real issue.

    “The virus is mild to asymptomatic for the vast majority of people who become infected”

    Why should i blackout – my house hasn’t been bombed

    On top of which many of those who wouldn’t be dying at home with dementia or alzheimers would instead be dying at home of covid. Because nobody’s yet explained how “shielding the vulnerable” would actually work, especially in a health service with ill workers and no way to treat vulnerable people who are shielding.

    But reality and nuance matters little to lockdown “sceptics”. Ideology is all. They are just conclusion shopping.

  10. they’re all taking dives now tom, disappearing deeper and deeper into the abyss
    this virus has really shown up their brain-dead rhetoric

    Trump is literally on twitter having a meltdown over Fauci as we speak
    today he rung a radio station referring to ” disaster Fauci” and all the idiot scientists
    moronic would be complementary at this point.

    we sent a man to the moon 50 years ago via science, who’d have thunk 50 yrs later the leader of the free world would be attacking science and scientists , with 2 weeks left in an election campaign.
    No wonder his campaign managers are all in jail, under arrest, or in mental facilities

  11. This thread is indicative of ATW these days.
    Most people on here seem to have an extreme opinion one way or the other, and won’t entertain any criticism of their position.

    it seems reasonable discussions are no longer viable on ATW.

  12. They are just conclusion shopping

    Bloody magnificent turn of phrase there, Frank.

  13. Trump is a deranged imbecile.

    He is wrong on the facts – no point on addressing what he said – his lashing out at an world expert who has enormous support among the American public, is a dagger in the heart of the Trump campaign and is nothing else.

    I await some true Fauci bashing on these pages by the usual toadies, sycophants and lackeys.

  14. Frank.

    But reality and nuance matters little to lockdown “sceptics”. Ideology is all. They are just conclusion shopping.

    So Pete’s points about the NHS not treating other conditions is invalid?

  15. Most people on here seem to have an extreme opinion one way or the other, and won’t entertain any criticism of their position

    With a few exceptions I don’t thin that’s the case, Dave. I’ll argue my position ferociously but if there’s demonstrable holes in it I’ll gladly take it on the chin.

  16. With a few exceptions I don’t thin that’s the case, Dave. I’ll argue my position ferociously but if there’s demonstrable holes in it I’ll gladly take it on the chin.

    I rest my case.

  17. You still can’t see a GP.

    Is this true

    What non Covid care is up and running now and what will be up for the rest of the year

  18. I rest my case.

    Unless you wish to explain what your case is I don’t think it’s rested at all.

    I have strong opinions on various things. I don’t think my opinions are extreme in any way

    So Pete’s points about the NHS not treating other conditions is invalid?

    No but his hostility to measures trying to prevent the contagion which could overrun the NHS do make them somewhat contradictory.

  19. Dave,

    “So Pete’s points about the NHS not treating other conditions is invalid?”

    It is in so far as the alternative is an overwhelmed NHS unable to treat anything adequately (including covid).

    The clue is in the phrase “above the five year average” in the post up there. The alternative where covid is let rip would plausibly make the five year average look like a nostalgic dot in the rear view mirror.

    It’s reasonable to compare the two but do it honestly. Any reasonable accounting would i think put a sizeable proportion, possibly most, of the excess deaths down to the virus, even with lockdown in place. Not that we’ve had a national lockdown in place for some time, by the way. Rightly or wrongly, people don’t want to go to hospital and add covid to their list of conditions. Nothing about lockdown is forcing people to stay away, there is no mandate from anybody not to treat those conditions nor is there any not to seek care for them. The fact is that the NHS has been coming under stress even with the light measures we’ve had in place.

    It’s the virus.

  20. Phantom
    surgeries have adapted, I just got my flu jab on saturday, I’ve spoken to nurses, had call backs from doctors all throughout the last 6 months, and particularly not a week goes by when I’m not talking to various depts like podiatry and dermatology for my parents needs
    Pete don’t know jack shit about what he’s talking about, ofc that’s not a surprise at all .

    99% threads/post headers on ATW are complete Bull-Shit .
    courtesy of PM and PVR
    almost certain I’ll be offski after the election , correcting idiots has grown to be tiresome
    there’s no upside anymore ..

    if this site ran like twitter or facebook
    99% of posts by the chuckle bros would be banned for spreading disinformation – Fact !

  21. NYC/NYS is cracking down on isolated spikes with localized closures, but the doctors and dentists offices and the hospitals are all up and running normally.

    They are actually running ads on TV asking people to make appointments for care that may have been delayed earlier this year.

    No one is staying at home all the time, or damned few anyway. Pat’n’Pete are singing from the same bogus hymnal.

  22. Frank

    Rightly or wrongly, people don’t want to go to hospital and add covid to their list of conditions. Nothing about lockdown is forcing people to stay away, there is no mandate from anybody not to treat those conditions nor is there any not to seek care for them

    Here are the facts.
    The NHS HAVE been cancelling operations and treatments, and doctors appointments since corvid. My own important cancer check-ups have been put on hold. I know of many people who have had important operations and treatments cancelled. Including chemotherapy. My own nephew and his partner who both work for the NHS have seen this first hand. This is not just about people being afraid to go to hospital.

  23. Paul

    Unless you wish to explain what your case is I don’t think it’s rested at all.

    It’s okay Paul, my point appears to be just beyond your grasp.

    I have strong opinions on various things. I don’t think my opinions are extreme in any way

    People here take an extreme, (one sided), position Paul, That’s what I meant. Perhaps extreme might have been the wrong word, (in your case), perhaps entrenched or immutable would be better.

    No but his hostility to measures trying to prevent the contagion which could overrun the NHS do make them somewhat contradictory.

    Which is a point I make myself if you read through the thread.

    The thing is, Pete is making valid points.
    Just because he talks crap at other times, doesn’t make his arguments invalid.

  24. Dave,

    I didn’t say that was all of it. Read what I wrote not what you think I wrote/

    Do you think all that stuff would be going ahead as per “the five year average” if this pandemic was just let run its course with just light measures or no measures at all? Because we’ve just tried that and the result was Liverpool was at 95% capacity days ago.

    What do you suppose happens when it exceeds 100%? How do you think immunocompromised people on chemotherapy will do when they are “shielded” from covid via some fantasy plan nobody has yet offered?

    I don’t think there is any option available where the NHS goes on as usual.

  25. “So it’s 26,000 and counting”

    Except it isn’t. Because the number of people dying in hospital is lower than one would expect. So a certain amount of those 26,000 are people who died in home who ordinarily would have died in hospital.

  26. Ah ha.

    That makes sense

  27. frank

    Because we’ve just tried that and the result was Liverpool was at 95% capacity days ago.

    In winter, as was reported in the media, Liverpool usually runs at 85%+ capacity.
    Perhaps the NHS should be funded better.

    What do you suppose happens when it exceeds 100%? How do you think immunocompromised people on chemotherapy will do when they are “shielded” from covid via some fantasy plan nobody has yet offered?

    I don’t know Frank. I’m honest enough to admit that. But here’s the thing, I don’t think pretty much stopping all other treatments and consultations is the right way to go either. Otherwise we’re going to lose just as many people, (or more), to conditions other than Covid in the medium to long term.

    I don’t think there is any option available where the NHS goes on as usual.

    No and I, (and most others on here) have never said there is. But compromise is possible and in my opinion, necessary.

  28. People here take an extreme, (one sided), position Paul, That’s what I meant.

    I think that it’s okay to have firmly held views as long as your able to credibly explain your position. Indeed, I’ve seen you do it yourself with global warming etc.

    To use a quote attributed to Maynard Keynes:

    When the facts change, I change my mind

    I don’t think there’s anything entrenched aout such a position.

    Just because he talks crap at other times, doesn’t make his arguments invalid.

    No one’s saying that suspension of treatment in order to stop the NHS being overrun is invalid. What is invalid is arguing such points while criticising preventative measures attempting to limit them and thus overwhelming the NHS completely.

    Dave, the main anti maskers, contagion downplayers etc here are driven by political ideaology, from anything to knock the NHS, to ignoring health concerns to get the economy going again for electoral reasons to claiming that billionaires want to enslave the world, not health concerns

  29. Perhaps the NHS should be funded better.

    A leading anti masker here wants the NHS defunded entirely.

    I don’t think that any of them have supported giving it more appropriate funding.

  30. Frank –

    The clue is in the phrase “above the five year average” in the post up there. The alternative where covid is let rip …

    Who is suggesting that the virus (I’m not sure how Covid is let rip) be let rip? It was dishonest of the Prime Minister to to imply that the choice is lockdown vs let rip, and that anyone opposing lockdown is in favour of the latter.

    There are middle ways. The World Health Organisation advises against lockdowns. Some of the world’s pre-eminent scientists and clinicians suggest other ways.

    The NHS is not near being overwhelmed now.It came through way higher hospitalisations in the spring and early summer. If ICUs are being stretched it’s more a reflection of how long the UK’s ICU capacity compared to other countries. The Nightingales are still on standby, treatments for Covid are way ahead of where they were and the NHS remains in a better position to get through it now compared to seven months ago.

    Some might say it’s understandable that the NHS closed down so much, given all that was unknown and feared about the virus. That reasoning is no longer valid.

  31. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Nightingale_Hospitals

    The NHS Nightingale Hospitals are seven critical care temporary hospitals established by NHS England as part of the response to the COVID-19 pandemic in England.

  32. Paul

    I think that it’s okay to have firmly held views as long as your able to credibly explain your position. Indeed, I’ve seen you do it yourself with global warming etc.

    Once again, your not getting the point I’m making.
    To put it simply, many people on ATW seem to hold a view, (sometimes influenced by their political position), that they just won’t budge an inch on. Such as blindly supporting, (or indeed blindly vilifying), the NHS to give one example. There never seems to be any middle ground these days.

    And as for global warming Paul, you’re being disingenuous clamming I ‘do it myself’ with my views on this. I’ve only ever stated the undeniable fact that mankind through greenhouse gas pollution is affecting the climate. I’m open to debate on everything else. My position certainly isn’t entrenched.

    Dave, the main anti maskers, contagion downplayers etc here are driven by political ideaology, from anything to knock the NHS, to ignoring health concerns to get the economy going again for electoral reasons to claiming that billionaires want to enslave the world, not health concerns

    Yep. Two sides of the same coin Paul.
    Have a look at yours, and Phantom’s responses for instance, when the ‘other side’, brings up legitimate points.

    Kurt and Patrick are the best, (or should that be worst) example of the point I’m making.

  33. Have a look at yours, and Phantom’s responses for instance, when the ‘other side’, brings up legitimate points.

    Don’t quite understand what is being referred to

  34. Have a look at yours, and Phantom’s responses for instance, when the ‘other side’, brings up legitimate points.

    Like what I said on Mike’s blog about possible alternatives to a lockdown?

    Paul McMahon, on October 18th, 2020 at 3:29 PM Said:

    Indeed, a fair bit of what is said in this blog is sensible advice. Lockdowns are used as a scorched earth measure of last resort and it’s dismissal and mockery of preventative measures and seriousness of Covid which lead to them.

    http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=85929#comments

    Yep. Two sides of the same coin Paul

    I don’t see how you draw that conclusion at all.

    I’ve only ever stated the undeniable fact that mankind through greenhouse gas pollution is affecting the climate.

    Yes, and you’ve argued it robustly, as I’ve argued robustly my positions on conclusions I’ve drawn from facts. I don’t think either is ‘extreme’

    Such as blindly supporting, (or indeed blindly vilifying), the NHS to give one example.

    The NHS can certainly be criticised but I will always, always support the concept of a tax funded public health system in the absence of a viable, better alternative.

  35. The idea that the government has no legitimate role in healthcare is about as extremist a position that one will ever hear.

    But people say silly things like that here.

  36. Good to know that the BBC is still keeping it up without my funding, Pete Moore. That was good advice you gave me several weeks ago. Gives me a kind of cleansing feeling in the soul actually.

  37. When facts undermine the opinions of many of ATW’s participants, the facts can go to Hell. It is now known that nobody is dying of Covid: nobody here knows anybody who is dying of Covid – it’s just NOT happening. The statistics are created by testing which uses a method absolutely not suited for diagnosis, and the virus hasn’t even been identified.

    https://drtomcowan.com/only-poisoned-monkey-kidney-cells-grew-the-virus/

    – This week, my colleague and friend Sally Fallon Morell brought to my attention an amazing article put out by the CDC. The link to the article is here, and it was published in June 2020. The purpose of the article was for a group of about 20 virologists to describe the state of the science of the isolation, purification and biological characteristics of the new SARS-CoV-2 virus, and to share this information with other scientists for their own research. A thorough and careful reading of this important paper reveals some shocking findings.

    – First, in the section titled “Whole Genome Sequencing,” we find that rather than having isolated the virus and sequencing the genome from end to end, they found 37 base pairs from unpurified samples using PCR probes This means they actually looked at 37 out of the approximately 30,000 of the base pairs that are claimed to be the genome of the intact virus. They then took these 37 segments and put them into a computer program, which filled in the rest of the base pairs.

    – To me, this computer-generation step constitutes scientific fraud. Here is an equivalency: A group of researchers claim to have found a unicorn because they found a piece of a hoof, a hair from a tail, and a snippet of a horn. They then add that information into a computer and program it to re-create the unicorn, and they then claim this computer re-creation is the real unicorn. Of course, they had never actually seen a unicorn so could not possibly have examined its genetic makeup to compare their samples with the actual unicorn’s hair, hooves and horn…….

    – My friends, read this again and again. These virologists, published by the CDC, performed a clear proof, on their terms, showing that the SARS-CoV- 2 virus is harmless to human beings. That is the only possible conclusion, but, unfortunately, this result is not even mentioned in their conclusion. They simply say they can provide virus stocks cultured only on monkey Vero cells, thanks for coming.

    – If people really understood how this “science” was done, I would hope they would storm the gates and demand honesty, transparency and truth.

    I disagree with that last statement. If ATWers really could understand the fraud of this ‘science’, they would immediately revert to their opinions BEFORE the revelation of the fraud. Such people cannot be reached, so let them take their vaccines

  38. Kurt and Patrick are the best, (or should that be worst) example of the point I’m making.

    ooh, bit harsh
    Pat is wrong about everything and I’m right about everything , way it is 😉
    and we’ll have proof of that in 2 weeks !

  39. Well Kurt. Like Patrick you’ve got a 50/50 chance of being right.
    Anyone who claims they know for sure the outcome of the presidential election is talking out of their backside.