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I’M WARMING TO THE FRENCH

By Pete Moore On November 23rd, 2020

I’m so old I remember the commentariat trampling each other to hail Macron as the strongman of liberalism against Europe’s nativist far-right. They never did understand that the left-right thing at home doesn’t directly play out the same way in France..

France’s Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin has said that French law will soon condemn those who speak out against caricatures deemed insulting to Islam. Foreigners who do so will also be subject to deportation, he underlined.

Speaking on the French channel Europe 1, Darmanin said that “if parents go to a teacher to tell him to stop teaching caricatures in the course on free speech, tomorrow it will be a criminal offense.”

He added: “And a judge will be able to say, if you are foreigners and you are condemned to this offense, you will leave the national territory.”

Very sensible, even if they are starting from a very bad place. The modern history of mass immigration unarguably demonstrates that mass immigration is suicidal and that being highly choosy about who you allow into your territory is the only sane policy. Poland and Hungary, under considerable pressure from Paris and Berlin to be suicidal, have no need of measures such as this. But as it stands I have no problem with such a measure. If you don’t like the local climate then pack your bags.

24 Responses to “I’M WARMING TO THE FRENCH”

  1. Wait, am I getting this right: in the name of free speech they are curtailing the free speech of those who speak out against those who speak out against Islam? The world is getting very complicated.

    Of course everyone should be able to say what they want, both the teacher and the bigoted parent of the teacher’s pupil. But I have a feeling this has little to do with free speech as such, and a lot to do with heating up the ideological waters that many of the mass murderers in France swim in.

  2. actually you’re conflating two ideas here petem
    immigration and free speech,they’re separate
    slipping in one under the coat-tails of another is a perfidious petem hallmark ..lol

  3. F the French

  4. can you do something useful pat an put up an open election thread
    won’t hurt too much would it ?
    the F the French is now just as boring as it always was dude
    oh sent you a mail too 🙂

  5. Of course this is wrong. Criminalising people for expressing opinions. Demanding adherence to a specific ideology under threat of deportation. I want to accuse Pete of being hypocritical but I know really what he is doing here.

  6. And a judge will be able to say, if you are foreigners and you are condemned to this offense, you will leave the national territory

    That’s an interesting one. As most of France’s Muslims are French citizens from former French colonies it’ll be interesting to see how that one plays out.

    Incidentally, while on the subject of religion and sectarianism I’m somewhat surprised ATW didn’t pick up on this:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54958353

  7. //Incidentally, while on the subject of religion and sectarianism I’m somewhat surprised ATW didn’t pick up on this://

    Paul, my eldest was in Israel about 2 years ago. In Jerusalem, he found himself beside some kind of shrine that’s supposed to mark the spot where Our Lady ascended into heaven. It was also near one of those fundamentalist Jewish schools (cheddar, or something).

    There was a guy selling drinks and my son took a break and sat down to talk to him. Just then he noticed several girls emerging from the school. As they passed the shrine, each one of them casually turned and spat towards it. Not with venom or in any passion, but just casually as a matter of course, like some old geezer clearing his throat during chesty weather in winter.

    The drinks vendor, who was also Jewish, apologised for the girls and said he was deeply ashamed of this regular ritual.

  8. I’m busy kurt

  9. Just then he noticed several girls emerging from the school. As they passed the shrine, each one of them casually turned and spat towards it. Not with venom or in any passion, but just casually as a matter of course, like some old geezer clearing his throat during chesty weather in winter.

    I get the impression that this type of thing is common there.

    I wonder if the American ” evangelical ” supporters of Israel are aware of this?

  10. the F the French is now just as boring as it always was dude

    If he Fancies the French let him off.

  11. I get the impression that this type of thing is common there.

    If that’s the case I can’t understand the mentality behind it. While I may have my disagreements with religion I would never be so deliberately offensive to someone’s faith.

    Why would young schoolgirls who know nothing about life be so casually insulting to a religious belief?

  12. Can you do something useful pat an put up an open election thread
    won’t hurt too much would it ?
    the F the French is now just as boring as it always was dude
    oh sent you a mail too 🙂

    That’ll be that ‘no longer engaging’ then 😉

  13. Why would young schoolgirls who know nothing about life be so casually insulting to a religious belief?

    Because they learn it from the parents from the beginning.

    The same as bigotry is learned in other places.

    This isn’t the first time I’ve heard of such things there.

  14. Because they learn it from the parents from the beginning.

    Yes, I’d gathered that but what I’m saying is I can’t understand the mentality of why someone would do such a thing.

    To be so gratuitously insulting as that medic and those schoolgirls were.

  15. // I can’t understand the mentality of why someone would do such a thing. //

    Paul, you should understand it as you come from Belfast. You must have seen or heard of people being disrespectful to the Catholic religion.

    I presume it’s them saying that this is THEIR city and those of a minority religion don’t belong there.

    If they’re like that with Christians in Jerusalem, you can imagine how the Palestinians get treated by the settlers. Of course if the Palestinians resist they are terrorists and get shot.

    Here are some more examples (hope this opens)

    https://www.haaretz.com/1.4715226

  16. I’ll bet that the medic has a new job in hand already.

  17. You must have seen or heard of people being disrespectful to the Catholic religion.

    I’m speaking from the experience of someone who has seen it, heard it and been physically and verbally subjected to it, Noel.

    I still don’t understand it.

    If they’re like that with Christians in Jerusalem, you can imagine how the Palestinians get treated by the settlers

    I was thinking along the same lines.

    Here are some more examples (hope this opens)

    It did although it’s behind a paywall.

    I have a Hungarian female work colleague who lived in Tel Aviv for two years and she told me that when Israeli men learned she wasn’t Israeli they would automatically proposition her for sex.

  18. I’m busy kurt

    yeah just the biggest most important news in the last 4 years
    but lets not talk about it .. got it pat, this the new ATW is it ?

  19. The accelerated rollout of some of the President-elect’s team show a dependence on calm, seasoned, effective & extremely competent public servants. No drama, no reality show atmospherics…just “we’ve got lots to do, let’s get to work.” Something to be thankful for this week.

    give me a thread and i won’t have to post here, phantom FFS
    daphne asked you for a bit of give and take , you did one , great , that was fantastic, can’t do another can you ?

  20. //It did although it’s behind a paywall. //

    Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them

    A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem’s Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face.

    The clergyman prefered not to lodge a complaint with the police and told an acquaintance that he was used to being spat at by Jews. Many Jerusalem clergy have been subjected to abuse of this kind. For the most part, they ignore it but sometimes they cannot.

    On Sunday, a fracas developed when a yeshiva student spat at the cross being carried by the Armenian Archbishop during a procession near the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City. The archbishop’s 17th-century cross was broken during the brawl and he slapped the yeshiva student.

    Both were questioned by police and the yeshiva student will be brought to trial. The Jerusalem District Court has meanwhile banned the student from approaching the Old City for 75 days.

    But the Armenians are far from satisfied by the police action and say this sort of thing has been going on for years. Archbishop Nourhan Manougian says he expects the education minister to say something.

    “When there is an attack against Jews anywhere in the world, the Israeli government is incensed, so why when our religion and pride are hurt, don’t they take harsher measures?” he asks.

    According to Daniel Rossing, former adviser to the Religious Affairs Ministry on Christian affairs and director of a Jerusalem center for Christian-Jewish dialogue, there has been an increase in the number of such incidents recently, “as part of a general atmosphere of lack of tolerance in the country.”

    Rossing says there are certain common characeristics from the point of view of time and location to the incidents. He points to the fact that there are more incidents in areas where Jews and Christians mingle, such as the Jewish and Armenian quarters of the Old City and the Jaffa Gate.

    There are an increased number at certain times of year, such as during the Purim holiday.”I know Christians who lock themselves indoors during the entire Purim holiday,” he says.

    Former adviser to the mayor on Christian affairs, Shmuel Evyatar, describes the situation as “a huge disgrace.” He says most of the instigators are yeshiva students studying in the Old City who view the Christian religion with disdain.

    “I’m sure the phenomenon would end as soon as rabbis and well-known educators denounce it. In practice, rabbis of yeshivas ignore or even encourage it,” he says.
    Evyatar says he himself was spat at while walking with a Serbian bishop in the Jewish quarter, near his home. “A group of yeshiva students spat at us and their teacher just stood by and watched.”

    The comments below the article are also interesting. It should also be said that this article is from Haaretz, a liberal Jewish Israeli paper.

  21. Cheers for that, Noel.

    Obscene.

    It should also be said that this article is from Haaretz, a liberal Jewish Israeli paper.

    Yes, I’ve read Haaretz in the past and found it pretty tolerant.

  22. Ah yes, that loving, forgiving, understanding religious belief.

    I miss my wing man Harri on this.

  23. He’s out looking for bat soup

  24. He should have stayed on ATW then. It’s batshit crazy on here these days.