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The Transition Begins

By Phantom On November 23rd, 2020

Reports are that the transition between administrations has formally begun. It should have started a long time ago, but I’ll take it.

Trump did a major disservice to the country with all the talk of imaginary election fraud. Talk that has not ended. Putin Xi and the Iranians will be repeating that libel made against the United States system for years.

It was noted that Giuliani and them never made assertions of fraud in front of judges – because there are major consequences for lying to a judge.

I don’t know where Trump will be on the evening of January 20, but Mr. Biden will be spending the night at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Good luck to him.

195 Responses to “The Transition Begins”

  1. appreciate the thread phantom , thanks
    yes this is correct
    after certification in Philadelphia, which is a step closer to PA certifying stateswide and Michigan certifying today Biden is over the 270 needed .
    Its official , de facto, though let them that wish to hang on to the hope of a de jure Trunk, its time to let it go .
    Nation of Laws and all that

    congratulations to Biden , he got 80 million
    Trump did better than 2016, but Biden just did that much better where it mattered
    cook has a good report i linked on another thread, which explains how GOP failed to extend their vote enough to capture the WH

    Transition ?

    Trump administration GSA Emily Murphy grants permission to begin the transition process to President-elect Joe Biden
    In a letter to President-elect Joe Biden on Sunday, the head of General Services Administration Emily Murphy announced that the Trump administration is ready to begin the formal transition process and make post-election resources available.

    The move comes after Democrats called on Murphy to testify in the House about not ascertaining Joe Biden’s victory. President Donald Trump says he is “recommending that Emily and her team do what needs to be done with regard to initial protocols, and have told my team to do the same.”

    here’s the new team :

    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1330967606585593857

    I count three women, three men
    and of the women , one latino, one black, one white
    of the men a golden oldie Kerry, and Blinken who was alot of fun on sesame street 🙂

  2. Whether Biden becomes President or not the insanity of declaring the blatant fraud that took place is imaginary isn’t assinine it’s stupid.

    and I’m not setting up an “Oh the election was stolen defense” If Biden becomes President then he won, history can sort out the rest.

    What I’m talking about, and you better talk about, and tom dick and harry as well as Rasheeda, Chickeeta, Mohomed, Quan, and Daphne need to talk about is the lack of confidence they just created in the voting system. Real or imagined don’t matter.

    Every nation that loses it’s confidence in it’s fair elections winds up suffering armed revolts…. without confidence in our elections that is where we are heading and both sides have heavily armed kooks. Without confidence in elections you provide justification in the mind of the crazies and like it or not look around you there are crazies on both sides except in this nation their armed on all sides.

    It’s a place I don’t want to live, but if you think the people actually believe there was No Fraud….. then when the shit hits the fan Phantom you won’t see it coming…

  3. No one has ever said that there has been no fraud.

    When there are more than 100 million votes, there will be some fraud. There is always some fraud.

    In 2020, There has been no evidence of systemic and or significant fraud.

    You guys like it when you win a close election, against the wishes of most voters.

    But you don’t like it when you lose a close election, in accordance with the wishes of most voters.

    Whatever loss of confidence exists has largely been created by a president who has been rejected by most Americans, the same exact voters who elected a lot of Republican House members.

    Your oarty,did reasonably well. But the shiftless, erratic leader was rejected.

  4. Again most of the provable voter fraud in this election has been by republicans, they tried to steal an election and failed

  5. Trump was the closest The US has come to having a dictator. To deny that isn’t assinine it’s stupid.

    Trump is the one that has caused the doubt in the US election process, all because his vain ego couldn’t take the loss and he threw a strop.

    God bless America. And it WILL be blessed with that clown out of office. Is Joe the best person for the job, no. And that’s a failure of American politics.

  6. pat thinks holding press conferences and coming up with bat-shit crazy conspiracies that even Trunk realized were so off the wall that he fired the creature from hell sydney powell, constitutes fraud and undermines confidence .

    USA is a nation of laws, someone said and accusations are NOT evidence.

    Its very basic this, hard to begin to explain, you’d have to start with the definition of a Court. Its a building where lawyers argue cases pat, we have them in UK too, and they’re also found in Ireland .. would you believe it? They contest cases and present evidence ( or NOT )
    as the case maybe . Google “Lawyer” and “Courts” that should help ya ..lol

    for a definition of “bat-shit crazy” , just look at your own twitter feed 😉

  7. paul see I do engage directly, with pat, but the difference is
    I don’t expect anything in return except BS and spin and nonsense.

    that’s what differentiates me noel and phantom from you, seamus and DaveA
    your mistake is to argue with a fool
    we don’t .. now don’t take it too badly a chara
    slainte

  8. Patrick Van Roy, on November 24th, 2020 at 4:57 AM Said:
    Whether Biden becomes President or not…

    Poor Patrick.

  9. “Trump and his gang have been making many of us lose sleep about the breakdown of the rule of law. Now it’s time for them to lose sleep about its return!”

    Garry Kasparov, arguably the best chess player of the 20th Century

    that’s who i follow Pat,
    hows the view from James Woods and Jon Voight on your follower list ..lmao

    Petr
    pat doesn’t know how lucky he his having us here, he get free education classes every day ;can’t put a price on that , can you ?

  10. kurt

    You can argue back against Patrick without being unnecessarily rude. Same with everyone here (yes including Patrick) , and no that’s not me ‘sucking up’ just reading this thread and seeing uncalled for disrespect.

  11. Colm — Agreed. It is almost the season of goodwill, afterall.

  12. “What I’m talking about, and you better talk about, and tom dick and harry as well as Rasheeda, Chickeeta, Mohomed, Quan, and Daphne need to talk about is the lack of confidence they just created in the voting system. Real or imagined don’t matter.”

    That lack of confidence has been created by Republicans being unable to accept that they lost a fair and free election, and so decided to make up and give air time to conspiracy theories, and give crackpot theories the official seal of the President. Joe Biden won – fairly. The only way to restore confidence in the system would be for Republicans to admit that.

  13. I don’t expect anything in return except BS and spin and nonsense.

    And what gives you the ridiculous notion that I expect anything other? As I’ve said previously, just because you don’t get answers to ridiculous claims doesn’t mean ridiculous claims shouldn’t be challenged.

    We don’t .. now don’t take it too badly a chara

    Not all all, it’s a discussion blog. Although your self declared superiority regarding your engaging non engagement is amusing to watch.

    Is Joe the best person for the job, no. And that’s a failure of American politics.

    Biden isn’t ideal but he is much, much better than what came before. Of course the game being played here is ‘we were just following legal procedure’ when Biden is inagurated which will then later morph into ‘the POTUS appointed by Judges’

    Any lack of confidence in the US electoral system lies squarely at the feet of the Trump camp.

  14. This site has been around for quite a while.

    Before Mr. Trump descended the escalator in Trump Tower, I don’t believe that I read any concerned comments from any of the Republicans here about electoral fraud.

    But now it’s all that they talk about.

    Massive, coordinated fraud from coast to coast brought upon us by the inner cities, corrupt Republicans, and an undead Hugo Chavez.

  15. Yeah, the electoral fraud claims are fun to watch.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-north-carolina-idUSKCN1QG2FS

    https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55009950

  16. Chris Christie’s comments, strong and exactly correct.

    “And what’s happened here is, quite frankly, the content of the president’s legal team has been a national embarrassment. [Trump attorney] Sidney Powell accusing Governor Brian Kemp [a Georgia Republican] of a crime on television, yet being unwilling to go on TV and defend and lay out the evidence that she supposedly has,” Christie told ABC News’ This Week on Sunday morning

    The prominent Republican described Powell’s conduct as “outrageous.” He pointed out that she and other lawyers for Trump won’t make the same claims in court when they are under oath. “Notice they won’t do it inside the courtroom,” Christie said

    Newsweek

    The Trump lawyers inflame the mob with tales of imaginary fraud, but say no such things when speaking to judges.

  17. The funniest one is the batshit crazy suggestion that the Democrats only won the Maryland 7th because of voter fraud. The Maryland 7th being Baltimore and Elijah Cummings old seat where the Democrats win by an average of about 60%.

    But it was definitely voter fraud that won it this time. The Republicans had clearly overturned a 50% difference since the special election in April, only for those nasty Democrats to steal it back (while padding their lead by 45%).

  18. Look if we are honest these legal games by the Trump teams and other assorted supporting groups are absolutely nothing to do with exposing or rooting out fraud wherever it may be. They are fishing exercises, trying to scope only the regions and counties in States that narrowly went for Biden with the aim of using the legal process selectively to cancel enough Biden heavy batches of ballots to reverse those States back to being a Trump ‘win’. That is all this is about. That is the real fraud.

  19. Kurt

    paul see I do engage directly, with pat, but the difference is
    I don’t expect anything in return except BS and spin and nonsense.

    Which directly contradicts what you said on the Satan Speaks thread. When you repeatedly agreed with Noel’s suggestion to not interact with Patrick at all and criticised us for doing so. I hope those goal posts aren’t too heavy Kurt.

    Kurt
    no cos the site is fucked
    you and the boys just stroke pat and petems ego every time you play into their horseshit threads !!

    Paul
    And yet you’re commenting on one of the horseshit threads.

  20. Trump is asking the rubes to contribute to a new recount fund.

    But only 25% of the funds collected will go towards this cause

    The other 75% will go to a Trump post elected office slush fund

    Everything, without exception, is a scam with this guy.

  21. Colm, on November 24th, 2020 at 12:22 PM

    I tend to disagree with this. If there were indeed irregularities in bundles of ballots certified for Biden such that correcting this would change the result (or might), then it would be entirely legitimate for the Trump campaign to pursue legal challenges.

    But this not what Trump is doing. He is saying to won the election without a shred of evidence. He is denying the accuracy of outcomes even after full re-counts done by hand. This demeans him and his robotic apologists.

  22. Charles has said several times now (on other threads) that he called this election wrong, and that he is unhappy. But if things go the Republican’s way in the run-offs in January, then surely that would be the perfect result for true Republicans, as opposed to Trump supporters?

    The Dems win the presidency, but fail to take any actual power. Plus, the GOP get rid of the embarrassing figurehead. As supporters of the Republican party and democrats (as in people who believe in democracy), the cult of personality shouldn’t come in to it at all. Save the hero-worship and fanboy stuff for those who are impressed by men wearing fake tan and talking loudly, like Pete Moore etc.

    As I’ve said before, now, at the beginning of a new president’s term, is the time to overhaul the ridiculously complicated and (allegedly) fraud-riddled system of voting. Replace it with one, national system; spend a few years making the online/postal vote as secure as possible (why not take a trillion or two out of the defence budget or Israel’s brown envelope to cover it?); make photographic ID mandatory and, as you have a lower age limit (35) in order to run, introduce an upper age limit. Currently, retirement age in the US is 66 years and 2 months, with this due to rise to 67 years, so how have two men in their 70s made it to the final vote? Make it 59, so that a possible second term-end coincides with their legal retirement.

    Now is the time to do it, right at the start. It shows leadership, displays a maturity that has been lacking recently, and goes a long way to ensuring there is no repeat of the mortifying embarrassment of Trump’s refusal to accept defeat.

  23. Trump is asking the rubes to contribute to a new recount fund

    Is it a charity? Trump likes using other people’s money for self enrichment.

  24. I am reaching out to one of the professors from Trump University for an opinion

  25. don’t AGREE daveA, i offered clarification today as paul called me on it yesterday
    see no contradiction , i do respond , but don’t interact on a back/forth

    colm quote the rude lines please i wrote , be specific not sure what you mean

  26. paul see I do engage directly, with pat, but the difference is
    I don’t expect anything in return except BS and spin and nonsense.

    that’s what differentiates me noel and phantom from you, seamus and DaveA
    your mistake is to argue with a fool

    There you go kurt.

  27. oh tough titty colm me ol mucker
    your age old problem is dividing lines, seeking to please all
    a fool is a fool , its a definition , and its not calling someone a liar
    if you had some lead in the pencil i think it’d help you differentiate
    sometimes you got to say things as they are, risk offense
    you have to make the call buddy !
    the ALTERNATIVE is to be soggy, drippy, luke-warm
    fool is actually a mild rebuke and given the language on the site
    No its not rude

    wonder how many agree with you and how many agree with me about the term “fool”
    what dya think colm ?

  28. Kurt, if you regard someone as completely beyond the pale, it’s better to ignore them, in my opinion. This is what 99% of people on ATW do with Allan. You make that mistake once, and realise you’ll never get that time back.

  29. Kurt: Show me where I was rude.

    Colm: shows kurt where he was rude.

    Kurt: Tough titty.

    How very Trumpesque/Trollesque of you, kurt.

  30. no colm you haven’t established rudeness
    what your offering here s a matter of taste
    your own brand of manners and feelings / sense of offense

    you have not proved your case at all
    you put it up , so i ask you to prove it

    lets say 50% here disagree with you
    what with you then think about that ?

    Petr is is rude to refer to pat as a fool ?
    ot simply an accurate characterization of the man
    who supports bat-shit crazy conspiracies etc etc

  31. Kurt, I think it’s probably not to refer to other commenters that way, but it’s just my opinion old chum.

  32. OK kurt, lets not dwell on this. I’m Just trying to keep debates to the topics, where we can and should fiercely take apart the substance of what people are claiming rather than insulting the individuals.

    Now lets get back to talking about the “Stolen Election” 🙂

  33. It’s a conspiracy.

  34. you’d think the last 2 weeks would have been a lesson in manners……

  35. pat you said you don’t object to any term except “liar”
    are you changing the goal posts ?

  36. colm the lesson of the last 10 years is doing just that
    fiercely arguing your case and taking apart the substance doesn’t work with pat
    perhaps you just haven’t been paying attention at all

  37. Phantom, on November 24th, 2020 at 1:02 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Trump is asking the rubes to contribute to a new recount fund.

    But only 25% of the funds collected will go towards this cause

    The other 75% will go to a Trump post elected office slush fund

    Everything, without exception, is a scam with this guy.

    Just a question…. where is your condemnation of this ?

    Tax filings reveal Biden cancer charity spent millions on salaries, zero on research

    A cancer charity started by Joe Biden gave out no money to research, and spent most of its contributions on staff salaries, federal filings show.

    The Biden Cancer Initiative was founded in 2017 by the former vice president and his wife, Jill Biden, to “develop and drive implementation of solutions to accelerate progress in cancer prevention, detection, diagnosis, research and care and to reduce disparities in cancer outcomes,” according to its IRS mission statement. But it gave out no grants in its first two years, and spent millions on the salaries of former Washington, DC, aides it hired.

    The charity took in $4,809,619 in contributions in fiscal years 2017 and 2018, and spent $3,070,301 on payroll in those two years. The group’s president, Gregory Simon, raked in $429,850 in fiscal 2018 (July 1, 2018, to June 30, 2019), according to the charity’s most recent federal tax filings.

    Simon, a former Pfizer executive and longtime health care lobbyist who headed up the White House’s cancer task force in President Barack Obama’s administration, saw his salary nearly double from the $224,539 he made in fiscal 2017, tax filings show.

    https://nypost.com/2020/11/14/biden-cancer-initiative-spent-millions-on-payroll-zero-on-research-report/

  38. I’m just pointing out how nice and civil you all are….. lol

  39. What about this and what about that

    I don’t endorse fiddling by anyone.

    You guys do – you’ve never once criticized Trump’s financial crimes, as shown over a lifetime of fraud and abuse of co-investors, or his abuse of the naive and uneducated ( Trump University, brain dead cult voters )

    Took ten seconds to bust you here

    https://www.cancerhealth.com/article/truth-biden-cancer-initiative

    It’s true that the initiative did not dispense grants in its two-year existence.

    But that’s because it was never meant to.

    The Biden Cancer Initiative sought to put an end to the siloing of cancer research. It worked to support the work of the entirely different and much larger Beau Biden Cancer Moonshot, a National Cancer Institute program that President-elect Joe Biden spearheaded as vice president that continues to fund grants worth many millions of dollars each year. (The Moonshot program is named after Joe Biden’s son, who died of brain cancer in 2015.)

    Indeed, the Cancer Letter suggests the similar names of the two programs may have led reporter Isabel Vincent to conflate the nonprofit Biden Cancer Initiative with the ongoing, federal Beau Biden Cancer Moonshot effort

  40. Trump committed no crimes Phantom. If he had they would have prosecuted him, that has always been your standard. Just as I am sure that no one will be prosecuted for anything with the Biden Charity.

    Yeah it was never meant too…. create an a funnel to catch money, call it a charity in honor of your dead son….. but the intention was never really to give any money to anyone….

    You see only corruption on one side as long as you do it will always be your biggest flaw. I’m trying to put together a post on the Governor of Maryland a Republican who like Cuomo, Wolf and Witmer thinks he’s a Roman Governor issuing edicts that over rule constitutional rights.

    What worries me is not a loss, if we lost we lost. Fair is always a matter of perspective. The concern is what I’m already seeing, these Governors and Mayors feel that Biden won and there will be no constraint on their power. They have already begun to double down in mandates, and restrictions and they are calling them Law.

    Governors and Mayors don’t make Law, and no one can make Law that violates the Constitution, but that is a daily battle.

  41. Patrick,

    Hillary Clinton has never been prosecuted, nor have the overwhelming majority of people you have accused of misconduct or criminal behaviour. Why the double standard with them?

  42. Trump committed no crimes Phantom

    lets just say that statement is economical with the truth

    a president can’t be charged with a crime whilst in office,
    some people don’t even know their own laws !

    when he’s out of office we’ll all find out what if any crimes he has been up to

    so
    its a strawman – setting up a falsehood and then attacking it or defending it.

    is that right paul ? you’re the expert on these terms : strawman and so forth

    maybe another term : non sequitur or logical fallacy is more accurate ..

    I call it BS cos I can smell BS , but what is the more refined phrase ?

    colm its twisted right ?

  43. It is a documented fact that Trump misused charity funds, including in petty theft ( paying Don Jr’s childhood Boy Scout dues from the charity ) and in paying his own business expenses ( at Mar A Lago ) .

    He was forced to shut down the charity by the court.

    There is no record of malfeasance of this or any other type by the Clintons or Bidens as respects charities.

    The Clinton Foundation in particular has high marks for effectiveness and transparency by charity watchdog groups.

    As always, they accuse other of the things that they do themselves.

  44. PA result for Biden officially certified.

    There has long ceased to be any legitimate question, except in the minds of the crazy and trivial.

  45. Drew Morgan ( comedian )
    @drewmorgcomedy
    Holy shit y’all we are actually gonna get away with stealing this election! Amazing! Reply w/ what you did. I voted 3 times and antifa’ed a lot

  46. Seamus, on November 24th, 2020 at 3:54 PM Said: Edit Comment
    Patrick,

    Hillary Clinton has never been prosecuted, nor have the overwhelming majority of people you have accused of misconduct or criminal behaviour. Why the double standard with them?

    Which double standard…. the one where Phantom says because they haven’t been prosecuted they’re innocent, but even though it’s exactly the same there is nothing Trump has been prosecuted for but he’s a crook… you mean that one?

    The double standard that concerns me is the lack of the application of the Law to high ranking elected officials and high ranking bureaucrats of both parties.

    What applies to the American Public does not apply to Government workers and especially Elected government.

    Newsom says no dining and has a Party in a restaurant, Cuomo says no Thanksgiving, but the next day says both his daughters are flying in for dinner and his mother and brothers family are coming to the Governors mansion for Thanksgiving.

    We have a Class of people that were never supposed to exist in our society that the Laws that apply to the Average American do not apply to and they are flaunting it.

  47. There you are correct

    Very many politicians, including Cuomo, Pelosi, Trump, DeBlasio and Newsom are do as I say and not as I do guys.

    Newsom is a particular idiot for that unmasked lobbyist dinner. Doesn’t he realize that everyone has a phone with a good quality internet capable camera in it, and that half of those people hate his guts, and are just waiting to catch him doing something wrong.

  48. It is a real problem and right now at this point in history it’s on the surface.

    Will it be dealt with? and I mean civilly there are many simple things that can correct it, or is it going to be swept away and continue?

    The second option leads to disaster, not tomorrow but it’s inevitable. The system doesn’t work when there are 2 sets of rules.

  49. The last major US politician who wasn’t a grifter / do as I say not as I do guy AFAIK was maybe Jimmy Carter.

    And that’s going back a long time.

  50. Newsom is a particular idiot for that unmasked lobbyist dinner. Doesn’t he realize that everyone has a phone with a good quality internet capable camera in it, and that half of those people hate his guts, and are just waiting to catch him doing something wrong.

    It’s their arrogance, pictures no pictures they know they can have their parties and their families over for thanksgiving because there are no consequences.

    Hell Cuomo got an Emmy for Covid. The state with the number 1 death count, and a man who wrote a book while 10s of thousands were dying around him about how great he was managing it… They gave him an Emmy.

    Ask those thousands who lost mom and dad in the nursing homes if he deserves that emmy.

    Humility is another modern casualty.

  51. Jimmy was Honest no doubt. As a man he’s a saint that deserves high praise.

  52. “Which double standard…. the one where Phantom says because they haven’t been prosecuted they’re innocent, but even though it’s exactly the same there is nothing Trump has been prosecuted for but he’s a crook… you mean that one?”

    I’d need to double check the thread but I can’t find Phantom saying that. As far as I can see you were the first one to introduce the ‘no prosecutions = innocence’ idea. As far as I can see Phantom has said that there is no evidence that they committed crimes, not that the lack of prosecutions is proof that they are innocent.

    Now given that it is you, and not Phantom, arguing the ‘no prosecutions = innocence’ idea, why do you maintain that Hillary Clinton, the Clinton Foundation etc… committed crimes even though there have been no prosecutions?

  53. because the evidence showed crimes, Comey in his press conference admitted that crimes were committed, but that “No one would ever prosecute such crimes”.

  54. Show us the exact quote where he admitted that they were crimes

  55. Trump embezzled funds from his charitable foundation for self enrichment. Now, while we all know you think you’re being cute with your criminal caveat fig leaf but are you okay with that level of such low dishonesty as long as it doesn’t meet the criminal law bar?

    Let’s see what Trump losing his Presidential immunity brings.

  56. Phantom, on November 24th, 2020 at 5:31 PM Said:
    The last major US politician who wasn’t a grifter / do as I say not as I do guy AFAIK was maybe Jimmy Carter.

    And that’s going back a long time.

    I believe Bernie Sanders meets this standard.

  57. “I believe Bernie Sanders meets this standard.”

    Not sure he meets the definition of “major US politician”.

  58. Petr

    Yes, I would agree with that

    And Chuck Schumer as well

  59. I would think that Bernie Sanders is a pretty big deal

    He’s influential, And has attracted enormous amounts of votes in national campaigns

  60. I think he is treated as a bigger deal than he is. In reality, given his actual role in politics, he is still a fringe figure. He, and his ideas, have had chances of going mainstream but have always failed to do so.

  61. “because the evidence showed crimes, Comey in his press conference admitted that crimes were committed, but that “No one would ever prosecute such crimes”.”

    Except he didn’t. He said potential violations of statute occured (notice the word potential, and not definate). He also said for it to rise to a criminal matter, rather than an administrative matter, certain characteristics had to be present such as:

    clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information;
    or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct;
    or indications of disloyalty to the United States;
    or efforts to obstruct justice.

    He then concluded that the FBI “do not see those things here”. So certain characteristics had to be present for it to move from being an administrative matter to being a criminal matter. And those characteristics were not there. Thus it wasn’t a crime, even if it didn’t follow the standards set in law.

  62. Sanders and AOC and those generally like them, including the BLM / Defund the Police types probably did the House and state officeholder Republicans a big favor this past election.

    A lot of people, including many Latinos in south Florida and on the border in Texas, want no part of any of that.

  63. He broke the Law….. he abused his position. It is not his place to make such statements, and it is out his purview to make such a decision. The FBI investigates the Dept of Justice decides what does or does not get prosecuted. He did however polute the jury pool at a national level.

    Hillary Clinton set up a communication network outside government oversight. A Felony, She Deleted 30,000 pieces of evidence that were under subpoena, A Felony.

    Now you can claim she’s innocent because she wasn’t prosecuted, but you can’t claim she did not commit a crime. There are 2 Felonies she has admitted to…. but that’s ok. She’s one of the Political Elite the same set of Laws that apply to Phantom and I don’t apply to them.

    Now run with that in any direction you want, but we have a two tier justice problem that is abused by the elected of both parties. The only way to end any elected individuals corruption therefore is to vote them out….. except now no one is going to trust that… oh well…

  64. Sanders and AOC and those generally like them, including the BLM / Defund the Police types

    Do you notyo think you’re painting in incredibly broad brush strokes there?

    A lot of people, including many Latinos in south Florida and on the border in Texas, want no part of any of that.

    Aren’t a lot of the Latinos in South Florida Cubans who are more right wing than your average USer Conservative? As said here previously, those that are seen as Commie firebrands of the Dem Party would be seen as Social Democrats in Europe.

    I’ll never understand the USer automatic and emotive reaction to such views and opinions as beyond the pale.

    Pat, are you okay with Trump embezzling from a charity as long as it doesn’t meet the criminal law bar?

    (and Kurt, I’m more than aware that Pat will spin and dance around this. That doesn’t mean that these questions shouldn’t be asked as the sophistry employed to avoid them often says more than a direct answer).

  65. In my own Congressional District, Democrat Max Rose, first elected only two years before, was crushed by Republican Nicole Malliotakis.

    He had attended a BLM rally, where there were ” Defund the Police ” signs, and the video of him at such a rally was used to devastating effect in campaign ads.

    ” Defund the Police ” people said that their slogan doesn’t mean what the words say, but few were fooled by that. Including sizable numbers of all Latinos and blacks. Defunding the police is the last thing in the world that they want.

  66. He had attended a BLM rally, where there were ” Defund the Police ” signs

    Does that mean he supports ‘DTP’ or is it guilt by association? I also don’t think that Max Rose is Sanders or AOC.

    Of course, painting everyone with such broad strokes is also a wink and a nod to associations with violence and rioting?

  67. Pat, are you okay with Trump embezzling from a charity as long as it doesn’t meet the criminal law bar?

    No if he embezzled he should be prosecuted. I give no one a pass.

    We constantly fight a fight for equal justice wealth and power always have an edge over the common man. Right now things are more out of balance than is the norm here. We are in a dark age that if it does not right itself toward a fair balance could very easily explode or just crumble.

    In spite of everything I have faith that it will correct itself, peacefully and will not crumble.

    But the voting system must go back to paper and paper only ballots or it won’t happen, a correction without violence or collapse depends on CONFIDENCE in the vote.

  68. No if he embezzled he should be prosecuted

    He was court ordered to pay $2 Million to his charitable institutions after misusing their funds for his personal enrichment.

    So, we agree that he should be prosecuted and that you have absolutely no problems whatsoever in condemning him for such base, despicable dishonesty?

  69. I wouldn’t participate in any demonstration that included people from either cause, any more than I’d share any platform with ultra right wing groups.

    Very many from all parts of society here take a similar position.

    Congressman Jim Clyburn of SC, who is very savvy, says that the ” Defund the Police ” movement hurt House Dems–a lot. About as idiotic a cause as we’ve ever seen.

  70. I wouldn’t participate in any demonstration that included people from either cause, any more than I’d share any platform with ultra right wing groups.

    That’s not the question being asked:

    Does that mean he supports ‘DTP’ or is it guilt by association? I also don’t think that Max Rose is Sanders or AOC.

    Of course, painting everyone with such broad strokes is also a wink and a nod to associations with violence and rioting?

    Was John Hume associated with the SF because he attended the Bloody Sunday demonstrations and SF banners were prominant at them?

  71. I don’t attend demonstrations or support extremist groups. I’m not even a member of the NRA.

    I refuse to belong to any organization that would have me as a member

  72. “He broke the Law….. he abused his position. It is not his place to make such statements, and it is out his purview to make such a decision. The FBI investigates the Dept of Justice decides what does or does not get prosecuted. He did however polute the jury pool at a national level.”

    Which is what he said. He didn’t make the decision. He laid out the FBI’s thinking on the matter. It explicitly says “As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case”. So he didn’t break the law or abuse his position. That simply isn’t true.

    “Now you can claim she’s innocent because she wasn’t prosecuted, but you can’t claim she did not commit a crime. There are 2 Felonies she has admitted to…. but that’s ok. She’s one of the Political Elite the same set of Laws that apply to Phantom and I don’t apply to them.”

    I didn’t claim that. You’ve claimed that and I’ve applied your (incorrect) standard to Hillary Clinton. If the fact that he hasn’t been prosecuted means that Donald Trump is innocent then the same standard means Hillary Clinton is also innocent. You can’t have it both ways.

    “In my own Congressional District, Democrat Max Rose, first elected only two years before, was crushed by Republican Nicole Malliotakis.”

    Crushed is probably over stating it. Malliotakis is about fifteen points ahead at the moment but there is still a lot of mail ballots that haven’t been counted (or haven’t been declared). Malliotakis has won but the result will be a lot tighter when those mail ballots are counted.

  73. The voters wanted no part of Max Rose after he attended that rally.

    Both BLM and DFP are toxic to me, and to very many others.

    And if he attended a BLM rally then yes he supports that.

    He only disavowed DFP when he saw that the issue had ripped a massive hole in the hull of his campaign.

    DFP was very popular among many Democrats for a time here until they saw that such views were incredibly harmful to them politically.

    AOC, a huge star in the party is still an advocate for DFP.

  74. Both BLM and DFP are toxic to me, and to very many others

    Again, that’s not the question being asked, here’s what you wrote:

    Sanders and AOC and those generally like them, including the BLM / Defund the Police types

    And this is what I asked:

    Do you not think you’re painting in incredibly broad brush strokes there? […]

    Does that mean he supports ‘DTP’ or is it guilt by association? I also don’t think that Max Rose is Sanders or AOC.

    Of course, painting everyone with such broad strokes is also a wink and a nod to associations with violence and rioting?

    Do you think John Hume should be associated with violence because of his attendance at Bloody Sunday commemerations?

  75. He was court ordered to pay $2 Million to his charitable institutions after misusing their funds for his personal enrichment.

    So, we agree that he should be prosecuted and that you have absolutely no problems whatsoever in condemning him for such base, despicable dishonesty?

    No…..

    We agree he was ordered to pay back funds, but unlike you I know that whatever took place wasn’t criminal. He was being persecuted by the best team of Prosecutors in the nation dying to indict. If they didn’t indict there was nothing there to indict over. Paul if they could have found parking tickets he didn’t pay he would have been indicted.

    For three years that was crossfire hurricane and then Mueller’s job. Find a crime.

    They didn’t the lack of prosecution in this case does prove it, because unlike Hillary they weren’t trying to disprove she committed a crime, with Trump they wanted a crime any crime so it could be plastered on the frontpage of every paper in the country and they got buppkiss

  76. I see DFP and BLM as hugely similar / interlinked, as two peas in a pod, both are highly radioactive.

    Anyone who attends a rally sponsored by either doesn’t deserve anyone’s vote.

  77. We agree he was ordered to pay back funds, but unlike you I know that whatever took place wasn’t criminal

    Now, while we all know you think you’re being cute with your criminal caveat fig leaf but are you okay with that level of such low dishonesty as long as it doesn’t meet the criminal law bar?

    I didn’t state that it was criminal, in fact I said it wasn’t.

    What I asked you was are you happy with such disgusting dishonesty as long as it doesn’t meet the criminal law bar and if you were prepared to condemn such base behaviour?

  78. I see DFP and BLM as hugely similar / interlinked, as two peas in a pod, both are highly radioactive.

    Anyone who attends a rally sponsored by either doesn’t deserve anyone’s vote.

    And yet again, that wasn’t the question asked. I think I’ll desist from beating my head against this brick wall any longer.

  79. Show us the exact quote where he admitted that they were crimes

    still waiting for the answer to that
    its simple ( esp to pat )
    you throw up a serious accusation , you gotta be prepared man to fire back
    immediately with the answer , the quite, because your credibility is on the line
    pat you talk about not wanting to be called a fraud or the “L” word
    but you don’t give shit when confronted .. its poor play , its very bad
    its not what this site is about , c’mon fuckhead where s the quote
    ( ps guys I’m running with the expressed statement that pat will take any insult bar the L” word ) .. don’t get on my case – its a fuckhead to says that kinda shit and don’t back it up
    hey fuckhead pat get your shit together !!!
    crimes , comey , where the fuck you getting this shit ???

    I will body slam you into next week sunshine fuckface if you don’t back up your shit !!!
    now come the fuck on , we agreed this is the new ATW
    shit you can’t even last 5 minutes fuck sake
    and colm you can fuck mright off, i am gonna be as rude as i need to be until this site improves its play

    don’t make claims you can’t back up
    and that applies to everyone …

    its either that or i ain’t playing no more Im sick of the bullshit

  80. I’m not talking about John Hume today.

    I’m talking about why Max Rose managed to get his ass beat a short two years after he won the seat.

    That wasn’t the only election the Democrats managed to lose, for similar reasons, in a year when an unpopular Republican president was dethroned.

    They grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory in a year when they should have gained seats but did not do so.

  81. I’m talking about why Max Rose managed to get his ass beat a short two years after he won the seat

    And I’m not talking about Max Rose, and neither were you until I asked this:

    Do you not think you’re painting in incredibly broad brush strokes there?

    So if you want to try to change the focus from your original subject to some dude then my Hume analogy is also legit. But as I said, I shouldn’t be beating my head against this wall, as past experience has taught me.

  82. What I asked you was are you happy with such disgusting dishonesty as long as it doesn’t meet the criminal law bar and if you were prepared to condemn such base behaviour?

    What disgusting dishonesty? You have no idea what took place and neither do I, but we both know that whatever took place it wasn’t criminal.

  83. The disgusting dishonesty of embezzling other people’s monies from a charitable foundation for personal enrichment.

  84. On Fox News on Monday, Ingraham said: “Unless the legal situation changes in a dramatic and unlikely manner, Joe Biden will be inaugurated on 20 January.”

    Carlson claimed “the 2020 election was not fair”, but admitted Trump had lost it.

    On his radio show, Limbaugh attacked Trump’s lawyers in Pennsylvania, led by Rudy Giuliani, for failing to provide any evidence to back claims of voter fraud in the state.

    “You announce massive bombshells,” he said, “then you better have some bombshells.”

    Just Hannity left, i think

    yeah he’s tweeting this sh1t

    MAGA Protesters Drown Out CNN Reporter’s Live Shot , hannity thinks its funny to disrupt people going about their daily job ,
    sounds like an antifa type guy to me, what ya think phantom ? close ?

  85. Hannity has hitched his wagon completely to Trump for a long time.

    If Trump goes away, Hannity will have little to talk about.

    He’s a flack, not a thinker.

    Notice Rush blames the incompetent lawyer, not the incompetent who hired him.

  86. well noted ph:
    Rush and Trump throw Rudy under the bus, needed a patsy and found one
    rudy still ranting , you need a silver bullet to keep vampires down
    or some holy water , seem to recall from the movies, a cross works good too !

  87. Trump is just as much of an incoherent conspiracy mumbler as Rudy is

  88. more than Rudy
    anyhoo
    It’ll be nice for the United States to finally have a foreign policy that isn’t centered around which countries the President owes money to.

  89. Yes yes they’re all idiots… a President, the best prosecutor, and the king of the airways….

    3 men who have achieved nothing…. oh ok girls…

  90. They are not idiots, just ill mannered bad losers.

  91. Rudy was a great prosecutor and was a great mayor.

    He’s lost his fastball.

    He’s maybe lost his marbles.

  92. The way it looks now Biden is very likely to be the 46th President. 5 states certified their votes today. Even if the President gets Ps and Ga thrown out he’ll still need a third state which he just doesn’t have time.

    That being said what happens in the Ga Senate race will be the final decider of just how much unbridled control the left will have.

    It will make for some interesting writing.

  93. Yes and if current trends continue, the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning at 655 am here.

  94. What possible reason could the Trump campaign get the Pennsylvania and Georgia results thrown out ?

  95. Still hoping and praying that some corrupt judge or McConnell-like “ends justifies the means” state politician over-rides the voters, eh?

  96. You know Phantom I’m glad it’s all so obvious to you and the other 70 million Americans who feel it was crooked are all just assholes.

    Well I guess they’ll all just sit down and shut up….. I guess they’ll all just behave. The right doesn’t riot, the right doesn’t loot and burn it’ll all be fine.

    So while it’s as obvious to YOU as the sun rising that Biden won it’s just as obvious to that 70 million that he didn’t……

    but they’re right the right does not act out like the animals have for the past 6 months.

    You do have a very large amount of very pissed off people lets see how far the left pushes. AOC and the Press said they have lists and those of us that supported Trump are going to pay… God help us all if they carry through with that threat.

  97. Patrick

    You had an election . More people voted for Biden in more States with a greater number of Electoral College votes than Trump. That’s it, that’s why Biden won. It is nothing more sinister than that. It happens every four years. Trump was successful last time and he wasn’t this. If 70 million people allow themselves to believe that it was impossible for their man to lose and it can only be a a fraud if the other guy won then that is an example of their own deluded and arrogant stupidity, but I don’t believe anything like that number feel that way. Most people I’m sure who voted for Trump are disappointed but accept that the American people had the right to make another choice and did so.

  98. Biden won the popular vote by six million and the GOP have now lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight POTUS elections. It’s no wonder they feel threatened by the demographics. But gerrymandering has helped them to control state legislatures where they lose the popular vote every time. Like Wisconsin.

    But if millions of votes were stolen as the more deranged among them allege, including Liar Donald and Crooked Rudy, how come the Dems didn’t manage to “steal” control of the Senate as well? And how come the GOP gained seats in the House and retained control of all the state legislatures they were defending? It just doesn’t compute. But there’s no doubt that Trump’s deranged lies about a stolen election have been lapped up by a majority of GOP voters (70%) and no amount of facts will change that perception. Call it Trump’s poison pill for the Biden presidency.

    And Trump TV will make Fox News look like CNN.

  99. Most people I’m sure who voted for Trump are disappointed but accept that the American people had the right to make another choice and did so.

    Colm

    I think you’re correct. I think many Republicans were like me, willing to give the President a couple of weeks to prove his case of voter fraud in court. The problem is that he didn’t and apparently can’t. So I must say that Biden won fair and square, lacking evidence to the contrary. If evidence surfaces, I’ll reconsider.

  100. As always, you’re an honest man Charles.

    I noticed that Senator McConnell still pretends that he doesn’t know who won. History will not be kind to people like him.

  101. I’m not the one that needs convincing I already said when one concedes the other is the winner, and I’ve said if it’s Biden then he’d be my President.

    To deny the vote is fucked up is a lie none of you actually believe yourselves, but even if you do there are millions of Americans that do not. Like it or not it’s a problem you can deny it all you want, but it’s going to blow up in everyone’s face…

  102. Biden is the winner whether or not Trump concedes, they are mutually exclusive.
    Breaking the rules and wrecking cherished democratic norms is something we have come to expect from “loser” Trump . The most corrupt POTUS ever ; as the record will show
    ask us “what crimes”? again in 12 months time
    Indictments expected in the Spring of 2021 , the LAW rolls slow
    But when it happens it’ll just be “another schmuck who goes down” , bang! – No tears
    Just a lonely jail cell and a con in prison uniform mopping floors and slopping out – utter disgrace in other words

  103. Patrick

    Honest answer please. If this election outcome had resulted in Trump winning the majority electoral college votes would you really be on here today saying it was fucked up and untrustworthy ?

  104. I hear turnip is leaving the Whitehouse with grace and dignity, as soon as Grace finds her shoes and dignity gets paid

  105. good luck with the plea colm , 8:12 is a great question !
    lets see how you are treated ?

    re crimes, prison, vengeance justice, retribution …

    President-elect Joe Biden has repeatedly made clear that he will not interfere with any DOJ prosecutions of Trump or his people, and that he will not pardon Trump under any circumstances.
    But we need the DOJ to be aggressive, and in some cases creative, in its prosecutions. It’s not about retribution. It’s about making clear that the penalty for turning the White House into a personal crime spree is steep enough that the next round of corrupt criminals won’t be so quick to try it.

  106. 70 million Americans who feel it was crooked are all just assholes

    What makes you think that everyone who voted for Trump all follow the same delusion that the election was crooked?

    To deny the vote is fucked up is a lie none of you actually believe yourselves

    I don’t think it’s any more ‘fucked up’ than it was in 2016.

    AOC and the Press said they have lists and those of us that supported Trump are going to pay

    Have they? Where? I don’t think they’ve said that at all.

  107. colm i predict you’ll get the line
    “Hey if there was fraud (crimes) committed in the Trump re-election of 2020, I’d be the first to get the pitchforks out ..
    ergo in summary colm expect you’ll get “Pitchforks” as a response, possibly with “laws” written in capitals somewhere in the sentence, maybe “Nation” and or “felony” too 😉

  108. Here is a good take on how the party of Lincoln has become an outlier in conservative parties in democratic countries. It used to be pretty mainstream but no longer. The chart in the article linked below shows how extreme its views have become when compared to the views of other conservative parties around the world:

    “The Republican Supreme Court power grab after Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s death should be shocking, given the naked hypocrisy involved. The only reason it isn’t is that we’ve come to expect this from Republicans — and not just under Trump. Republicans shut down the government in the 1990s and impeached President Bill Clinton over far less than what Trump has done in office. Under Obama, they fanned the flames of birtherism, held the global economy hostage to force spending cuts, and elevated obstructionism to the level of governing principle.

    At the state level, they have rewritten electoral rules to block Democrats from voting and seized power from Democratic governors after they have won elections. Just this week, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis proposed a bill that would effectively criminalize anti-police violence protests — and protect drivers who ran over protesters with their cars.

    This kind of radicalism is not at all normal — at least, when compared to center-right parties in other advanced democracies. Experts on comparative politics say the GOP is an extremist outlier, no longer belonging in the same conversation with “normal” right-wing parties like Canada’s Conservative Party (CPC) or Germany’s Christian Democratic Party (CDU). Instead, it more closely resembles more extreme right parties — like Viktor Orbán’s Fidesz in Hungary or Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s AKP in Turkey — that have actively worked to dismantle democracy in their own countries.

    The following chart shows the results of the survey for all political parties in the OECD, a group of wealthy democratic states, with the two major American parties highlighted in red. The GOP is an extreme outlier compared to mainstream conservative parties in other wealthy democracies, like Canada’s CPC or Germany’s CDU.

    Its closest peers are, almost uniformly, radical right and anti-democratic parties. This includes Turkey’s AKP (a regime that is one of the world’s leading jailers of journalists), and Poland’s PiS (which has threatened dissenting judges with criminal punishment). Experts rate the GOP as substantially more hostile to minority rights than Hungary’s Fidesz, an authoritarian party that has made demonization of Muslim immigrants into a pillar of its official ideology…”

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21449634/republicans-supreme-court-gop-trump-authoritarian?campaign_id=116&emc=edit_pk_20201124&instance_id=24423&nl=paul-krugman&regi_id=92386359&segment_id=45325&te=1&user_id=88a853b48475ac441e2bca51f72ddacb

  109. hi colm
    gen hoping you’ll get a response less wooden from pat ofc, we’re not ham radio stars here
    though some may privately believe their time here is a constant audition for said ham radio 😉

  110. Kurt

    I think if Patrick is honest he would say that if Trump won even if Patrick thought the electoral rules and safeguards were dodgy he wouldn’t be so keen to shout about them as he is now 😀

  111. keyword “honesty”, being tested .. lets see
    looking likes its being ducked , but lets give it time .. 🙂

  112. He sure didn’t moan when his Trump or his pet GWB won with minority of votes and the identical system

    They discovered the fake crisis when Trump invented it

  113. No the rules are the rules gentleman, they apply to both sides.

    No matter how many times I say it, it’s ignored I look at both sides as corrupt. Yes I support the Republicans, but I do not support illegality and fraud by anyone on either side.

    Right now in Ga the one Senate race is between a rev wright, and a grifter. Loeffler is an inside trader and corrupt as hell I couldn’t vote for her if she was the ONLY person on the ticket.

    Trump has done a fantastic job as President. To say otherwise is a denial of facts, and I support him, but he was not my first choice. Yet no matter how many times I say that it falls on deaf ears.

    The crises with our voting system is not fake.

  114. //but I do not support illegality and fraud by anyone on either side//

    Good. You’ll have no problem condemning Trump for illegally and fraudulently using charitable foundation monies then?

  115. Patrick

    You may think that the security rules around identifying and counting ballots and ensuring the correct people only vote is poor but that does not automatically mean there has been massive fraud and that Biden did not genuinely win the Presidency.

  116. Can someone list the tangible, practical differences between the 2016 & 2020 electoral processes?

  117. A reminder that some Dems claimed big scary Russians had hacked the voting machines in 2016. There’s a lot of blame to go around when discussing all this silliness.

  118. “A reminder that some Dems claimed big scary Russians had hacked the voting machines in 2016.”

    Firstly I think it has been confirmed that the Russians tried. Secondly as far as I am aware it was never claimed in some convoluted attempt to vacate the result of the 2016 election.

  119. “Firstly I think it has been confirmed that the Russians tried.”

    All 144.5 million of them?

  120. //I think if Patrick is honest he would say that if Trump won even if Patrick thought the electoral rules and safeguards were dodgy he wouldn’t be so keen to shout about them as he is now.//

    But then he doesn’t say.

    So this is Colm coming much closer to the L word than two regulars who got the whack for it recently, but of course Colm gets off Scot free.

    kurt is the prophet not recognised in his own land.

  121. aww bless u Noel
    I’m a fan of you too 🙂

  122. Troublemakers 😉

  123. just trying to elevate the thing colm
    its really worth it when folks back their shit up and be honest
    or things just degrade very quickly downhill !

    Its begins and ends with honesty , that’s the grease that keeps the wheels afloat .

    see : speak your truth, boldly, powerfully , passionately , disagree vehemently
    just don’t post crap and expect it to pass the smell test ..

    its really quite straight forward

    unfortunately the career criminals here are pat and petem – no question !

    which is why we’re in troubled waters on ATW

    I’m not sure its sustainable , but i am not a pessimist either !

    but I’m a realist

    petem/pat are more are more and more veeering towards conspiracy sites , newsmax, QAnon
    as foxnews is too commie for them even , this is a receipe for disaster cos we’re just get freaky bullshit en masse, even in a post Trump world, they really think they’re onto something with parler (DV) and so on …

    deep downj you know it too colm, but i worry your nose is so firmly planted in their buttcheeks its coming out is it 😉

  124. Kurt
    The way you write gives me a headache, but I wouldn’t have you any other way 😀

  125. Off topic but I’m sure a I saw a new post earlier put up by Phantom, to do with a Meghan Markle interview with the NYT. I wonder if he took it down because of the news about her miscarriage?

  126. apologies colm, i can do paragraphs but i don’t like to that much , hey here’s a quote from a real president , its awesome and just a few words “Biden’s Thanksgiving message: “We need to remember we are at war with the virus, not one another.”” wow we’ve waited 4 years to hear that. do you know what i mean ?

  127. oh god please no not Ms Markle…… there are some tortures that should be forever banned and anything to do with her has to be on that list.

  128. Patrick

    I’d be interested in your views on my 10.40 AM

  129. I’d be interested on his views on my 3.36 & 4.11.

    Kurt
    The way you write gives me a headache

    Kurt’s writing reminds me of Christopher Walken’s manner of talking.

  130. promised a 3 part last night here it is

    colbert interviewing president obama , its really good

    https://youtu.be/kAvu5pRfb7Q

    https://youtu.be/zhnPAHQFs_g

    https://youtu.be/PlUpeINUQjY

  131. Peter….. that’s one of the best written pieces of comedy I’ve read in awhile, thank you. I don’t think there is stereotype myth that it missed.

    I know that view well, the view of the Ivy League Educated. You may have heard me refer to it before I call it the Bubble.

  132. don’t blaspheme Walken is a God…

  133. paul I answered the charity question already, there was nothing criminal and other than that neither you nor I know any other details.

    So you can beat that dead horse as hard as you want, it ain’t gonna run son….

  134. best scene ever filmed in a movie

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3yon2GyoiM&ab_channel=ImBigOnReddit

  135. Cheers Patrick

    It’s good to know that the GOP is still a mainstream conservative party and not an increasingly deranged gerrymandering voter-suppressing right-wing cult led by a compulsive liar who has the party totally in his grip even as he leaves the White House and whose family is being groomed to succeed him.

    That’s a big relief to me and I’m sure to others hereabouts.

  136. Obama is relaxed and happy and he remains very popular in America and beyond

  137. lol paul I can be a bit twitchy ..
    love this one : scene from true romance wit C.Walken
    The Sicilian Scene –
    the cop wins , one of the best 2 mins i seen in the movies as a response to C.Walken
    True Romance – The Sicilian Scene in HD
    https://youtu.be/S3yon2GyoiM

  138. snap – pat 🙂
    music is beautiful when cop starts
    “you’re a sicilian …

  139. Obama is relaxed and happy and he remains very popular in America and beyond

    And Trump will always get a big welcome in Russia and Poland and Hungary and Brazil. Birds of a feather.

  140. There was nothing criminal

    No one apart from you is suggesting that there was anything criminal, as I said:

    I didn’t state that it was criminal, in fact I said it wasn’t.

    What I asked you was are you happy with such disgusting dishonesty as long as it doesn’t meet the criminal law bar and if you were prepared to condemn such base behaviour?

    Neither you nor I know any other details.

    We know that he embezzeled other people’s monies from a charitable foundation for personal enrichment.

    So you can beat that dead horse as hard as you want, it ain’t gonna run son….

    No problem. As I said to Kurt earlier in the thread, you deflection, sophistry, dancing and general spin on such blatant, disgusting dishonesty sometimes says much more than direct answers.

    As to my 4.11:

    Can someone list the tangible, practical differences between the 2016 & 2020 electoral processes?

    Don’t blaspheme Walken is a God…

    No blasphemy here, he certainly is.

  141. That’s a big relief to me and I’m sure to others hereabouts.

    glad to hear it. You can assure them it’s nothing but we God fearing, Gun Toting, Constitutionalists…. the one group that will never go away. You can bank on it 🙂

  142. We know that he embezzeled other people’s monies from a charitable foundation for personal enrichment.

    lol…. so link to the court papers that say that.

  143. As to my 4.11:

    Can someone list the tangible, practical differences between the 2016 & 2020 electoral processes?

    Ask a more detailed question.

  144. No link to the court papers that say that

    He admitted to using charitable monies for which they weren’t intended, some of which were buying paintings and funding electoral campaigns.

    That’s embezzlement but if you don’t want to call it that then it’s also fraudulent, (which you say above that you can’t support) and dishonesty of the lowest kind.

    It’s that that I’m asking you to condemn.

  145. Can someone list the tangible, practical differences between the 2016 ( fairly won by Trump) and 2020 ( suspiciously lost by Trump) electoral processes ?

    There fixed it 🙄

  146. By jove I think you’ve nailed it, Colm.

    Ask a more detailed question.

    No. I’d like you to answer the question I asked. It’s pretty direct.

  147. God fearing, Gun Toting, Constitutionalists

    God fearing: You guys must be shit-scared of that sky god, given the amount of bible thumping that goes on.

    Gun-toting: For sure. But the problem with the Second Amendment is its first four words: “A well-regulated militia…” That would seem not to cover white militia guys with personal arsenals. Never mind open carry inside state buildings.

    Constitutionalists: That’s a bit of a stretch, given what we’ve seen since the election. Especially Trump urging GOP legislatures to ignore the vote completely. It will be interesting to see how “constitutionalist” you guys are when Trump grants himself a pardon. I’m sure you will be piling on to claim that the word “grant” in the constitution can include the meaning “give to oneself”.

  148. As for Walken, this is superb:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVCiej8Fuig&ab_channel=CraigMurray

  149. Trump has pardoned Michael Flynn.

  150. Quelle surprise!

  151. gonna wathc that now , paul , i guess you guys know walken is a trained dancer too
    hey ( sorry colm i have a soft spot for ya ) we actually need a thread on Flynn
    why? Trump has just pardoned him ..
    That’s trump play now as he leaves office – pardon everyone

    p.s if you’re pardoned you lose your 5th Amendments rights .. this could backfire .
    Pat you waiting till tomorrow for the line from Rush Limbaugh/ Hannity or are you prepared to tell us what YOU think about the Flynn pardon?
    go on break the mould !!!

    trump and his entire family have been barred from ever owning or running a charitable foundation EVER again .. but hey no crime
    some people are really taking the piss, but its not working on me !
    is it working on you ?

  152. I guess you guys know walken is a trained dancer too

    I do:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDIYvFmgW8&ab_channel=SkintRecords

    But hey no crime

    Pat’s always the one to introduce the crime caveat when no one else is talking about it. Ask him to condemn the fraud and dishonesty and he’ll hide behind the crime fig leaf.

    A classic straw man.

  153. guys this is why i like palmer
    as he is razor sharp and follows every move like a hawk, his detail is breath-taking
    his forensics impeccable .. he simply offers the best analysis to be found anywhere on the internets ( GWBush) . Its not even close, the rest are a day behind and very loose and school-boy in their depth of understanding

    Donald Trump just pardoned Michael Flynn – but it could blow up in both their faces

    https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/pardon-michael-flynn-blow-faces-donald-trump/34419/

  154. Yeah the software wasn’t set it wasn’t believed it would be needed and trump played an electoral strategy that hadn’t been played since the 1800s going specifically for the electoral vote, not the popular vote. It surprised everyone.

    In this one they prepped for a year, overwhelmed the system with unverifiable mail ins and adjusted the algorithms in the machines, it was perfect and would have been undetectable except the turn out was so high it blew up the algorithm and the 5 swing states all at the sametime. And magically he was leading in those states until that point then simultaneously Biden took the lead. In at least one state you can see it in the count variables Biden got vote drops all in the variable of blocks of 1200, 1200, 2400, 3600 block drops.

    But there’s a good chance they’ll get away with it.

    If they do then Biden will be President, Trump will concede and we will spend four years in hell the American middle class under attack by the political elite.

    That is my unvarnished view. Take it or leave it.

  155. Pat’s always the one to introduce the crime caveat when no one else is talking about it.

    That’s because the crime “caveat” is the only point that matters. The rest is spin.

  156. ” In at least one state you can see it in the count variables Biden got vote drops all in the variable of blocks of 1200, 1200, 2400, 3600 block drops. ”

    Which state is that? Do you have a link to the evidence for your claim?

  157. So Al Capone never did anything bad, apart from the tax evasion

    As he was never convicted of other crimes

    Why he was a bit of a saint I imagine!

  158. That’s because the crime “caveat” is the only point that matters.The rest is spin

    Then why do you refer to illegality and fraud above?

    As I said, your deflection, sophistry, dancing and general spin on such blatant, disgusting dishonesty sometimes says much more than direct answers and in this case certainly shows you up to be as much of a fraud as Trump is.

  159. where am I deflecting anything?

    If you have a question on anything I believe I answer it…. you can’t however take one issue and apply it’s answer to a totally different subject and set of circumstances Paul.

  160. Where am I deflecting anything?

    When I am asking you to condemn Trump’s embezzling, fraud and disgusting dishonesty regarding charitable foundation monies and you are talking about crime.

    Why do you refer to illegality and fraud above and then talk about crime when questioned on them?

  161. because Paul you are making a judgement on facts that aren’t in the public view. Your judgement on what happened is emotional not factually based.

    Why do you refer to illegality and fraud above and then talk about crime when questioned on them?

    This part of your statement makes no sense to me. What are you referring to? Besides the charity ?

  162. He admitted to using charitable monies for which they weren’t intended, some of which were buying paintings and funding electoral campaigns.

    That’s embezzlement but if you don’t want to call it that then it’s also fraudulent, (which you say above that you can’t support) and dishonesty of the lowest kind.

    It’s that that I’m asking you to condemn

    We know for a fact that he admitted using charitable foundation monies for self enrichment and that he was ordered to pay back $ 2 million because of it.

    Those are facts and your attempted sophistry surrounding what we don’t know is an attempted argument ad ignorantium and shows you to be as big a fraud as Trump is:

    https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-from-Ignorance

    What are you referring to? Besides the charity ?

    This from 3.05 above:

    Yes I support the Republicans, but I do not support illegality and fraud by anyone on either side.

    What Trump done regarding the charitable foundation monies was both illegal and fraudulent but you want to hide behind the crime fig leaf.

  163. What Trump done regarding the charitable foundation monies was both illegal and fraudulent

    No that is your OPINION.

    If he had done ANYTHING illegal or fraudulent he would have been charged. The whole purpose of the investigation was to finf SOMETHING anything to charge him with and even forcing him to pay back they still couldn’t find ANYTHING to charge him with.

    but you stay stuck there……. have you ever heard the tale of the dog and the bone…..

  164. Patrick

    Even our Allan would have blushed if he had posted your 10:14pm comment 😉

  165. He couldn’t be charged as per DOJ policy

    You’ve not paid attention to any of this

  166. any idea why trump has bee banned and his entire family for ever running a charity org again ?

    I can’t think why ? — realpolitick dude

    yeah colm not a shred of evidence to back up the 10:14
    some folks never learn and the site is just dragged down again
    led by the guy who runs it
    what kinda shit is this ffs
    is this a serious site or a place for clowns ?
    I really wanna know ?

  167. No that is your OPINION

    It’s not my opinion, it’s the opinion of a court.

    What he did was against the law and fraudulent.

    Those are facts and that you trying your greatest sophistry to deflect and avoid merely exposes you as a fraud too.

  168. Patrick believes 100% that the election was stolen. He has no evidence that would stand up in court, but “belief” gets you a long way in US politics today. And this certainty is shared by 70% of GOP voters. The so-called “rule of law” that they like to spout about doesn’t come into it when it doesn’t suit them.

    Because the heart of the matter is that the GOP believes that it is the only legitimate party of government in the USA, because the Democrats aren’t just wrong, they are evil traitors. That’s your view Patrick, isn’t it?

  169. told ya the mans a fool

  170. “We must not attempt to exercise power we simply don’t have,” declared Van Langevelde, a member of Michigan’s board of state canvassers, the ministerial body with sole authority to make official Joe Biden’s victory over Trump. “As John Adams once said, ‘We are a government of laws, not men.’ This board needs to adhere to that principle here today. This board must do its part to uphold the rule of law and comply with our legal duty to certify this election.”

    pat pls just stfu will you man , please , or I’m off

  171. seimi gone
    seamus gone
    I’m going
    paul will go i bet

    we’re sick of your BS
    10:14 is just the pits
    you got yer head stuck up your ass completely
    no-one comments like that , its pure villainy , its horsehit, bullshit
    its a goddamn set of lies that your promoting
    DONT DO IT ANYMORE
    LAST CHANCE
    I’m half way gone

  172. So Pat is now saying that it’s OK to divert charitable assets for personal gain If your buddy does it

    Is this what it means to drain. The swamp

    My my

    MAGA 2024!!!

  173. That is my unvarnished view. Take it or leave it.

    Patrick’s 10:14 was clearly labeled as his “view” or his opinion. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said “Everyone has a right to his own opinion,,,” but of course that was back when we were a fee country!

    Kurt, don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

  174. Pat is entitled to his views. And others are entitled to show how shit we think that most of his views happen to be. This US election has been a hard rain for Pat and like most of the GOP he has lashed out, but on ATW we need to keep a civilised debate going.

    Cancelling views by banning people or walking off in a huff are equally unhealthy for free speech. And IMHO in 2020 we need free speech more than ever. This blog is a free speech haven which we would miss if it disappeared.

  175. Peter, I agree with what you say, esp. the need for free speech in 2020. My ire is directed mostly at Kurt for throwing his toys yet again out of the pram and threatening to leave over Pat’s opinions. Either leave or don’t!

  176. jesus let it go or do you want to hash it all out again….. because if that’s what you want to do Peter feel free. It’s your free speech.

    You want to ruin another thread and rehash what has been rehashed for 3 weeks now…

    you go right ahead…

  177. Kurt suffers from an addiction to this site he can throw all the fits he wants, he can leave if he wants, but Percy has been banned how many times Kurt?

    3 or is it 4… I’ve lost track and no matter what sooner or later in one persona or another he shows back up.

    I’ll speak my point of view all of you are welcome to say yours. No one is welcome to slander or defame anyone.

    If you can’t live under that, there’s the door.

  178. Sorry to lash out at you Peter.

    No ones free speech is now nor has been hindered on this site. There are times when reminders of decorum take place in every group. The closer the group the harder that is to accomplish without feelings being hurt.

    The demand for a level of decorum will never take away from anyone ever expressing what they feel or what they believe.

  179. Kurt

    Take a break

    Nothing here is that important

    You can’t get all worked up every couple of days, it’s not good for you

  180. everyone breath, enjoy the holiday… let us relax and be grateful for each other.

    Phantom I hope you have a wonderful day tomorrow.

    that wish goes out to you all.

  181. No ones free speech is now nor has been hindered on this site.

    Except for when I was banned for asking you if you could provide evidence for your own statement.
    Or when my ban continued and you lied about why I was banned.
    Or when you continued to lie about how I could be reinstated.
    Or when you continued to lie when you changed your reference to my being banned to my being suspended.
    Or when you banned Seamus for speaking out about my being banned.

    jesus let it go or do you want to hash it all out again…..

    You want to ruin another thread and rehash what has been rehashed for 3 weeks now…

    you go right ahead…

    You, and anyone foolish enough to take you seriously, should be reminded as often as possible about just how dishonest a person you are.

    You will fill entire pages here with conspiracy theories about how the big, bad Dems stole an election, but when facts are mentioned about your own blatant dishonesty, suddenly you don’t want to rehash the past 3 weeks.

    Does anyone else still have posting rights? I have a piece I’d like to post, but the person who calls themselves ‘manager’ of the site has zero credibility or integrity.

    //everyone breath, enjoy the holiday… let us relax and be grateful for each other.//

    What a hypocrite.

  182. Patrick lashed out at the wrong person here. He completely misunderstood Peters “free speech” comment which was aimed at kurts utterly ridiculous tantrum which he mistakenly took as a dig at him. I thought Patrick’s 10:14pm conspiracy theory claim was utterly fanciful nonsense but there’s no way I would get annoyed by it to the ridiculous extent Kurt did.

    For gods sake can everyone stop telling other people what views are ‘acceptable ‘ or not .Call them bullshit but accept that people believe their views and are entitled to express them.

  183. It’s not the views colm
    It’s the refusal to back em up
    Wonder if you’ll ever experience the emotion of being pissed off about that .?
    I doubt you will

  184. And would you suddenly believe Patrick if he posted a link ? Would you become a Trump supporter if Patrick posted enough pro Trump links. Of course you wouldn’t. Post your views Kurt but don’t tell other people how they should post theirs, or threaten to leave unless someone comments in a way you think is acceptable.

  185. I realized after I read the thread what Peter was saying which is why my 2:56.

  186. Remember the ole rule gentleman…

    Opinions are like Aholes, we all have one, and they all stink……

  187. Opinions are like Aholes, we all have one, and they all stink……

    Except when they are legally binding opinons that is:

    No that is your OPINION

    It’s not my opinion, it’s the opinion of a court.

  188. show me the court papers that say it……

  189. That say what?

  190. There are reports that the GOP crazies – more than a few of them – are actually asking Republicans not to vote for the two Republican candidates in the two Senate runoff elections. Some are saying that voters should write in the name “ Trump “

    This is part of an internal Republican civil war there.

    The Republican Secretary of State has been criticized for saying that the legitimate election was legitimate, that the two strongly pro Trump Senate candidates are not loyal enough.

    Trump opened the door to all of this with his bogus and idiotic claims of election fraud. In the close Georgia Senate elections to come, that may hurt Republicans, as they face a united Democratic army

  191. Phantom you’re living in denial

  192. What fraud has been shown in Georgia?

    Should Republicans boycott the Senate election in protest over nothing , as the crazies want?

  193. There’s a ton of fraud, both with mail in and dominion, and NO you don’t boycott

  194. You have never been able to show a single shred of evidence of fraud. And what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without it as well.

    Prove the fraud. Or it doesn’t exist.

  195. Pat’s as big a fraud as Trump. All that lofty ‘we are a nation of laws’ rubbish is fraudulent balls.