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HI ALL.

By David Vance On November 30th, 2020

Trust this finds you all well! We are about to enter December so looks like we are preparing to step into Christmas, Covid or not! I have read some comments on other threads and suggest battles are left in November. None of us is perfect and we can all make mistakes (except me, obviously) So, please keep the tone civil. Thank you!

48 Responses to “HI ALL.”

  1. Hi David,

    hope you are well.

    You say you have, “read some comments on other threads…” – we were given to believe that you were, “perfectly aware” of what had been transpiring here over the past few weeks.

    Was this not the case?

    And if it was the case – why have you waited until now to comment on it?

  2. Hi David

    Nice to hear from you. Hope your advice is taken on board by all. May this final month of this troubled year be kinder to you and everyone here.

  3. Yes, all the points – sharp or blunt – have been made. Let’s let this matter rest and everyone be sensible enough to avoid another round.

  4. Howdy David

  5. Hi David. Hope all is well you and yours, and that grandfatherhood is treating you well. First Christmas as a grandfather must be pretty exciting.

    As to the matter at hand, I hope things can return to normal and these arguments are left in the past. I truly do. None of us want to be arguing this stuff any day nevermind every day.

    However the giant elephant in the room does need to be addressed for it to be left in the past and everyone to move on from it. And that is Patrick’s arbitrary banning or threatening to ban people who disagree with him.

    People in the past have not been banned for making statements that would almost certainly meet the legal standard of defamation, while people have been banned or threatened with being banned for statements that almost certainly would not meet that standard. So defamation, real or imagined, is clearly not the issue.

    It started because on election night Patrick, upset over the result, banned Seimi for disagreeing with him. He accused Seimi of things that Seimi didn’t do – showing that his excuses for banning Seimi were nothing but a (made-up) pretext. He has since admitted that was wrong of him and apologised. And that should have been the end of it. But barely had time gone by or tempers cooled when he accused Dave of the exact same thing that he accused Seimi of, despite it being clear that Dave had done no such thing. Clearly this was Patrick gearing up for another arbitrary banning – and get his same made-up pretext in line for doing so. That is 100% the cause of the bad feeling on the site. Patrick has apologised to Seimi but that apology needs to be sincere. And judging by his actions I don’t honestly believe it is.

    Obviously some sort of editorial function is required, and that people who are genuinely out of line need to be warned and failing that removed. That is reasonable and acceptable. And a function that you applied very well in the past – and something that attracted many people to this site in the first place (certainly in comparison to Fealty’s over the top nonsense in the other place). And for the most part since taking over from you, in terms of the day to day, Patrick has fulfilled that well. However, in the last month particularly, he has stopped doing so. And that is the crux of the matter. Sadly these arguments are likely to continue as long as Patrick continues to abuse his banning powers, and banning people who are not out of line but have just annoyed Patrick on any given day. If he stopped that I genuinely believe that these arguments would stop. Certainly I can guarantee that my part in the arguments would stop.

  6. However the giant elephant in the room does need to be addressed for it to be left in the past and everyone to move on from it. And that is Patrick’s arbitrary banning or threatening to ban people who disagree with him.

    That is just simply untrue.

  7. What part of it is untrue? That is exactly what happened.

  8. It also did not start a month ago.

    It started years ago with another commenter and then you 3 picked it up and made it a daily thing.

    What happened a month ago had nothing to do with the election it had to do exclusively with You, Seimi, and Dave saying I lie.

    It may not seem like a big deal to you Seamus, but it is to me, and it cost me. I would never dox any of you because A) it’s immoral, but B) more importantly it could hurt you in your job and or your reputation.

    I work under my real name, everyone I do business with off this site knows my work here, and knows that my views and opinions are on display. None of my views have ever hurt me. The “claim” that I’m a liar actually did.

    So I took measures to bring that claim to an end. That is what changed.

    Now you can disagree with that, contrary to your continued nonsense you can argue with me all day about anything. What you can not do is claim I intentionally deceive.

  9. “What you can not do is claim I intentionally deceive.”

    And yet you clearly do – as evidenced by the last month. It is not even debatable that you do not lie.

    “The “claim” that I’m a liar actually did.”

    Which specific claim that you are a liar hurt you? Be specific so we can all have a look at it and determine whether that claim is reasonable or otherwise. Because your blanket “you never lie” nonsense is clearly nonsense.

    “It also did not start a month ago.”

    And it clearly did. All of this started with the banning of Seimi. Not before. None of this constant collapsing of threads discussing this one issue happened before you banned Seimi. That was the catalyst. Nothing else.

  10. What you can not do is claim I intentionally deceive.

    You banned me and said that I called you a liar. That was not true, but could – if you squint and look at it in a funny way – could be seen as an honest mistake. However, when it was pointed out by numerous people that you were incorrect, you continued to insist that I called you a liar. At this point, you were attempting to ‘intentionally deceive’ ie lie.
    You then changed your reason for banning me – twice. Again, you lied.
    Then you started saying that I was suspended, rather than banned. Another lie.
    Then, you apologised for suspending me. You didn’t suspend me – you banned me. Another lie.
    Then, you said your apology was sincere, but your words since then have shown it was anything but sincere. Yet another lie.
    Then, you accused Dave of calling you a liar. He didn’t. Yet another lie.

    Need I go on?

    As Seamus has repeatedly said: if you don’t want to be called a liar, don’t tell lies.

  11. Noel. (I’m responding to your comment on Paul’s thread.)

    As I said previously, I’m not totally disagreeing with what you’re saying. You make a lot of sense. But the problem is, (and Seamus beat me to this point in his post on Paul’s thread), Patrick loves arguing with people. If we collectively ignore him, he’ll just become more abusive, authoritarian and dictatorial until he forces a reaction. I know this because he’s done it many times in the past.
    I’d be willing to give your suggestion a try, but I’ve got to go and record now pointing out that I don’t think it will necessarily work even if we all did it.
    But at least he’ll still have Colm to talk to because Colm gives Patrick special dispensation.

  12. I’m not going to share my business details with you or anyone else on this site. You’ve proven you simply can’t be trusted.

    You want to concentrate on this past month because I stomped on Seimi. What you fail to see or more honestly just refuse to acknowledge is that You, Seimi, and Dave had been carrying this line of personal attack for a very long time, and for the past year I kept asking for it to stop and I kept warning that eventually action would be taken.

    It was, and it brought it all to a very nice head.

    Now you say this was anger over the election, now the election is frustrating, but far from ever causing me to take it out on any of you. You act like I’m devastated or angry that Trump lost, except in my view he has not lost yet….. so why would that be the reason for anything.

    What you have to ask yourself, and why.

    I have been able to ban/suspend any of you for years…. Have I ?

    Over the past few years have I not fought with people?

    Who over all those arguments for years have I ever banned/Suspended ?

    So why now? Was there no warning, were there no requests for it to stop ?

    You can feel I crossed a line, I feel the three of you crossed the line on a regular basis and it had to come to end.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

  13. Dave you have a persecution complex.

  14. Now I have said all I am going to say.

    Please feel free to say whatever you feel.

    I suggest WE follow David’s advice.

  15. When I don’t think anyone’s persecuting me. How does that work then Patrick?

  16. “I’m not going to share my business details with you or anyone else on this site. You’ve proven you simply can’t be trusted.”

    Fair enough. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I’m not going to give any credence then to unsubstantiated claims of injury then – given your dishonesty in the past as well. So you have provided no evidence of injury and so that accusation that these claims have caused you harm can be dismissed.

    “What you fail to see or more honestly just refuse to acknowledge is that You, Seimi, and Dave had been carrying this line of personal attack for a very long time, and for the past year I kept asking for it to stop and I kept warning that eventually action would be taken.”

    No we haven’t engaged in personal attacks. Please provide evidence to support your claim. We have disagreed with you, often in strong terms, but it has not risen to either defamation or personal attacks. It is strong disagreement which you now want to prevent by asking people to let you say what you want without challenge, and now banning those who strongly disagree with you.

    “I have been able to ban/suspend any of you for years…. Have I ?”

    As I pointed out David set a good example of personal conduct in a position of authority on this site. You emulated that until very recently.

    “I suggest WE follow David’s advice.”

    As I said in the previous thread – for this to end you need to stop banning people and stop threatening to ban people. That is the only way this site will go back to normal.

    “Dave you have a persecution complex.”

    For the love of the sweet baby Jesus that’s funny.

  17. I’m not going to share my business details with you or anyone else on this site.

    Nobody asked you to. Seamus asked

    Which specific claim that you are a liar hurt you? Be specific so we can all have a look at it and determine whether that claim is reasonable or otherwise.

    If you don’t want to be called a liar, don’t tell lies. It’s simple.

    If you really felt that you were being picked on, or bullied, or whatever, address the issue. If, as you claim, only 3 people here were calling you a liar – correctly or incorrectly – why didn’t you contact those individuals and speak to them privately? Isn’t that your own guidance, if someone has an issue with you?

    What you fail to see or more honestly just refuse to acknowledge is that You, Seimi, and Dave had been carrying this line of personal attack for a very long time, and for the past year I kept asking for it to stop and I kept warning that eventually action would be taken.

    I don’t remember any warning of impending action. I should point out here that by saying I can’t remember it, I am not accusing you of lying.

    I’m beginning to understand how your paranoia works.

  18. “You act like I’m devastated or angry that Trump lost, except in my view he has not lost yet….. so why would that be the reason for anything.”

    Because the people who make up your opinions for you hadn’t made up that conspiracy theory yet.

  19. Happy Xmas, War is over 😂

  20. … if you want it 🙂

  21. Peace on Earth and Good will towards us All

    Merry Christmas David.

  22. It’s not Christmas until Yoko’s screeching ‘waaa ees ovaaa’

  23. god forbid……

  24. It’s not Christmas until Noddy says it is.

  25. don’t know Noddy……

  26. is he the Elf that wanted to be the Dentist in Rudolf ?

  27. Elvis living inside the Welsh fella disagrees:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdsk3NNqBZ8&ab_channel=ChristmasMusicVideos

  28. “don’t know Noddy……”

    Noddy Holder, lead singer of Slade. Slade had a song called Merry Xmas Everybody, which I was reading has almost no market penetration in the United States, but would be seen as one of the best Christmas songs on this side of the pond.

  29. Don’t know Noddy……

    Arguably the greatest pair of pipes in Brit rock.

  30. Noddy Holder

    I will look him up….

  31. that link was frightening Paul….. here wash it away

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwdI-gbm5kE

  32. Just listen…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8uO7A8c9zo&ab_channel=Sladev

  33. Noddy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpfHSqLXePI

  34. You got it Patrick. You’ll be singing it all through December now 😊

  35. that’s mean….. but you’re probably right and it just created an earworm.

  36. I have loved Slade from childhood but Merry Christmas Everybody was for me them at their most mediocre.

    The second greatest song Slade ever did:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mKjx2oL_fI&ab_channel=XXFGTK34D

  37. This is Allan’s favourite Christmas tune, and no it’s not the original… 😊

    https://youtu.be/z8LmMtScH3g

  38. This thread is much improved!

  39. That’s the magic of Vance 😊

  40. It’s been improved now David.

    Rudolf contains nudity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sdmGA3VgQQ

  41. David Vance, on December 1st, 2020 at 9:13 PM Said:
    This thread is much improved!

    Colm, on December 1st, 2020 at 9:23 PM Said:
    That’s the magic of Vance 😊

    Sometimes I wonder if I wouldn’t be happier, if I just accepted shit like this, instead of having a mind of my own.

    Look – the thread was ‘improved’ by the site owner – the actual owner, not the prick who has his cock out at the minute – dropping in on a ‘royal procession’ and declaring that, “..war is over.”

    If, by ‘war’, you mean the anger generated by Troll’s un-warranted, unnecessary banning of me for disagreeing with him, then fine – it’s a war.

    But it has not been resolved. You, David – unlike Troll – are an intelligent man. I am making an assumption here, but I am assuming that you also understand the difference between right and wrong – again, unlike Troll – and that you are honest enough to do the right thing over the wrong thing. Again – not like Troll.

    The person you have left in charge of this site is a dishonest liar. He is doing your site, that you spent a lot of time developing, an awful lot of damage. He has no control over himself nor his own emotions, so he tries to compensate for that by wielding his limited power here in a pathetic pantomime of threats and dick-swinging.

    I’m not going to apologise to anyone for bringing this up again. This should be brought up over and over again, until it’s resolved.

    Here’s a question: what do other people here think? Should I continue to argue/complain about my being banned? Should I complain, until I either get banned permanently, or should I just accept it and move on? Should I just accept it?

  42. Seimi

    The question is what do you mean by ‘resolved’ ? The past cannot be undone. The ban happened and then it was lifted. If you wish to continue to complain what Is the aim you are seeking ?

    You don’t need to ‘accept’ anything. You have asked for others opinions so mine is for you to stay and just continue commenting like all of us on the topics of each and any post as freely as you always did. If a topic interests you join the thread . If not, don’t. Same as all of us who comment here. I don’t really understand what other option there is unless you decide to no longer comment because you don’t like the ethos of how the site is run.

  43. You’re right, Colm. I just need to accept what happened and carry on. I should accept and conform. Don’t rock the boat. I did nothing wrong and was banned for it. The person who banned me was ultimately endorsed and supported by the site owner through his empty, vague comments, which were in turn endorsed and welcomed by people who say they welcome debate, but really only mean debate within certain parameters; parameters which don’t put too much strain on their own conscience – ie, wrongs committed on the world stage can be condemned: wrongs committed on the ATW stage can be dismissed by the quoting of song lyrics – “Happy Xmas, War is over 😂”

    The question is what do you mean by ‘resolved’ ?

    That’s a good question, Colm. I consider a matter ‘resolved’ when all issues pertaining to that matter have been properly dealt with and brought to a conclusion. If a light bulb blew in our house, I would consider the matter ‘resolved’ once the light bulb had been replaced with a working one – not when the discussion about replacing it had taken place, otherwise, we’d be sitting in the dark.
    So, if one person does something wrong to another person and then lies repeatedly about his reasons for doing so, I would consider the matter ‘resolved’ once that person had properly apologised for what they did and had paid for what they had done wrong through some form of appropriate punishment. I would not consider the matter ‘resolved’ if they got away with an insincere, incorrect apology and no punishment whatsoever. I can see that that is good enough for most here, but unfortunately not for me. I must be funny that way.

    So perhaps you’re right, Colm. Perhaps I just need to swallow it all down and move on. Accept that this is how things are resolved on ATW. Can you, or anyone else, explain to me how you do that?

  44. Live without offense semi as far as possible .
    We all know where the shame belongs in this sorry saga and it’s not upon you . Though it was put upon you . Falsely.
    Forgive , for your own peace of mind .
    That resolution requires no apology .

    In the bigger picture he got 4 years of hard labour and daily pain with Trump being castrated by SCOTUS, we got 4 years of unbridled joy peace celebration .
    They have their reward a chara

  45. Seimi

    I didn’t say you had to conform to anything. You are a free agent. You are not a hostage. ATW is an online blog. It’s not a prison or a house you must live in. My point about your issue of continuing to complain is simply about what the purpose is. This is David’s blog and he allows Patrick to manage it. It isn’t up to anyone else here to say how it should be run. We are here voluntarily and freely. We each have to make our own decisions on how we act rather that make demands of others. For my own example I no longer comment on any of Mike Cunningham’ s posts as he twice threatened to get me removed from the site and so I no longer wish to engage in threads on his posts. I however accept that David is perfectly entitled to have Mike as a contributor , Mike is entitled to react to comments on his posts as he wishes and I have no right to demand apologies or changes to Mike’s place here. I can only make my own decisions about my own actions.

    You are not going to get Patrick’s authority here removed so the only realistic option left to you is your own action. Perhaps you could simply stop commenting on Patrick’s posts as I have done with Mike’s or you could decide to continue commenting as you see fit on any post without accepting Patrick’s rules (however Patrick chooses to react) or decide that you don’t feel able to continue here at all. The answer lies with what you choose for yourself . Continued complaining to try and achieve something that just won’t happen is pointless and will be fruitless.

  46. Seimi,

    I don’t think it is a case of conforming.

    I don’t think there is going to be a come-to-Jesus moment where Patrick throws himself to his knees, supplicating himself for his failings. Personally, and I’m not the injured party here (so I’m not going to even suggest to you what you should or shouldn’t do), but I asked him for two things – an apology for his original, unjust actions, and that he stops banning people or threatening to ban people, as well as pointing out to him that this issue is going to come up from time to time – especially if he starts going on about how pro-free speech he is.

    Now he did apologise (sort of – and I would question at times the sincerity of that apology). And at least since this thread, as far as I am aware, he has stopped threatening to ban people at the drop of a hat. There has been no public declaration that he will stop but so far he has stopped. Personally I’ll take that as enough (I don’t need sackcloth and ashes), though the obvious caveat is that if he goes back to his previous ways then so will I.

    I think when push comes to shove David is not going to remove Patrick – if he was going to he would have already. I think there is an argument that there is no one else to do it. David is broadly detached from the website now, Pete has said in the past about his busy schedule that makes it harder for him to devote time to ATW, a lot of the others are gone, Patrick is likely the only one with the time and inclination to run the site. So I think if Patrick is removed it wouldn’t be the removal of Patrick but the removal of ATW. Now if Patrick was going to act the same way he did for pretty much the entirety of November then that wouldn’t be that big a loss. However if Patrick could find some way to exercise even a basic level of self control – which before Trump was bitchslapped by the American people he broadly did – then the loss of ATW would be big in my opinion.

  47. Colm & Seamus

    I don’t want Troll’s authority to be removed, nor am I ‘demanding’ anything of him or anyone else. I also really do not expect a ‘come-to-Jesus’ moment from him either.
    Here’s the thing: I tend to hold people to the same standards to which I hold myself. If I behave like a cunt, I know that it is up to me to accept that and apologise. I suppose all I am doing here is having too high an expectation of Troll. I also know that any apology received from him would be as sincere as anything else he writes here, ie completely without worth or substance.
    I know, as well as everyone else on this site, how dishonest and lacking in integrity he is, and just because he is currently behaving himself – probably because his employer has told him off behind the scenes – we all know that he cannot control his temper for very long, and will soon revert to form.
    And you are correct, Colm – the only realistic option I have is my own action, or lack thereof, and I’m afraid that I can’t sit back and tolerate an insecure bully, just because he isn’t currently smashing up the furniture. Nor do I believe that the bully’s bullying nature should not be talked about, for fear of him starting up again.
    But for the sake of peace around here, I will hold off on any further comment on the subject, unless provoked, or until such time that it all kicks off again, which it will.

  48. Seimi

    I am pleased to hear that Seimi. I understand how frustrated you must feel at the unresolved situation with Patrick but I look forward to your continued participation on the topics we all like discussing here. The site has always been richer for your participation, particularly with your excellent Irish language and culture posts although sadly I acknowledge at least for the time being you probably won’t be attempting to submit any more of those gems here .

    I can’t think of anything more to say other than I hope the recent troubled waters here can remain calmer for as long as possible. Cheers,