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Somethings will NOT Change

By Patrick Van Roy On January 9th, 2021

As the writer once said…. “You already live in the Land of the weird, where would ya go?”… H.S.T.

141 Responses to “Somethings will NOT Change”

  1. the Greatest , above all else that defines freedom is
    1)free and fair elections
    2) a free press

    both came under sustained vicious attack in the last 4 years, as an attempt to dismantle sacred institutions and install tyranny was led by one man DJT

    Fortunately, thank the Lord and thanks to good people standing up , waiting inline for hours
    : Freedom Prevailed :

  2. Trump lawyer and conspiracy nutjob Sidney Powell is being sued for $1.3 billion by Dominion for her nutjob conspiracy claims against it:

    “A company that made voting machines used in the US presidential election is suing one of Donald Trump’s former lawyers for $1.3bn (£940m) over “wild accusations” of vote rigging. In legal papers, Dominion claimed statements at rallies and in the media by Sidney Powell “determined to promote a false preconceived narrative about the 2020 election” that was won by Joe Biden. A 124-page claim for defamation filed in a Washington federal court states she “falsely claimed that Dominion had rigged the election, that Dominion was created in Venezuela to rig elections for Hugo Chávez, and that Dominion bribed Georgia officials for a no-bid contract”.

    https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trumps-former-lawyer-sidney-powell-sued-for-13bn-over-wild-vote-rigging-claims-12182566?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

  3. yeah let me know when there’s a verdict in Dominions favor Peter….. lol

  4. Kurt do yourself a favor, go to rehab.

  5. Has there been an outbreak of sanity in the GOP? A snap poll on Wednesday found 45% GOP support for the Capitol riot but that’s now down to 18%. Still far too high of course:

    Support for Trump supporters breaking into the US Capitol via new PBS/Marist poll:

    All Americans:
    8% support
    88% oppose

    Republicans:
    18% support
    80% oppose

    Democrats:
    3% support
    96% oppose

    https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1347674222194253825?s=20

  6. Trump lawyers Sidney Powell and Linn Wood Are genuinely crazy and or are complete liars

    Both of them will be successfully sued for libel/ slander

  7. Anyway, at least the rioters succeeded in getting Trump’s favourite flag into the building. In his forced retirement he can take comfort in this image:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/confederate-flag-during-civil-war-never-made-it-inside-us-capitol-but-a-rioter-carried-one-inside-wednesday/ar-BB1cyVnZ

  8. Kurt do yourself a favor, go to rehab.

    nothing i wrote is false , its the absolute truth
    so all you’re doing is showing your complete contempt for truth
    which doesn’t surprise us as truth is not your native language is it ?

  9. Both of them will be successfully sued for libel/ slander

    you want to put money on that?

  10. well is she has Rudy and lin wood as her lawyers to defend here, I’m sure everything will work out and she’ll be acquitted
    warning: ( heavy sarcastic alert ! 😉

  11. These are the real authors of insurrection who embellished and re publicized the lie that the bad president foisted on the ignorant

  12. cor blimey phantom i guess thats meds for you too after that 2:56
    are we all getting our meds from the dr in the house today 🙂
    colm I think your on the meds list too, on the other thread ..
    courtesy of dr.troll who has medical degrees and con.LAW degrees ..

  13. worth quoting is Elizabeth de la Vega 21yr Fed Pros (Org Crime, Chief SJ Branch), Past Stanford Law Pro Bono Dir/Lecturer & US Dist Ct. Clerk.
    though prolly not as qualified as Dr.Troll, nevertheless here’s her opinion

    I don’t know if anyone has explained this to the president, but he is now facing the possibility of charges that could realistically result in life imprisonment. If you follow me on Twitter, you know that I am not prone to exaggeration. I’m not exaggerating now.

    Having spearheaded a massive conspiracy to obstruct the lawful business of the U.S. Congress via a mob attack on the U.S. Capitol by his followers who, armed with guns, bats, sledgehammers, and other weapons, carried out an hours-long siege that resulted in five deaths

    the president faces the possibility – and in this former prosecutor’s opinion – necessity of multiple federal charges. For now, though, let’s focus on just one: seditious conspiracy. What would be a likely sentence for conviction on seditious conspiracy based on these facts?

    Well, the maximum statutory penalty is 20 yrs. But what is the applicable US Sentencing Guidelines range? That’s where it gets interesting. Because the Guidelines have no offense level for seditious conspiracy, we look to the most analogous offense

    n U.S. v. Rahman, 189 F. 3d 88 (2d Cir. 1999), the Second Circuit held that the District Court had properly found that the most analogous offense, for purposes of guidelines calculation, was —- treason

    What, then, is the guideline level for treason? It’s Level 43, the highest U.S. Sentencing Guideline level. And what is the sentencing range for someone with no prior convictions at Level 43

    The range would be up to life imprisonment, which would likely be achieved through charging, conviction and sentencing on multiple crimes. But, that is not all

    Trump was an organizer; he abused his office to commit the crime; there were 100s of victims, including USG employees; the crime led to five deaths, including a homicide; and there would be multiple counts. These factors would make the offense level even higher

    We don’t know all the relevant facts but, based on Trump’s public conduct, statements and tweets, we can conclude that Trump faces the real possibility of multiple charges arising out of his instigation of these crimes. Further investigation will only make the case stronger

    Trump, from the WH, has committed among the most egregious crimes ever committed in this country. As much as we need him out of office, a resignation and pardon is no solution. If he resigns, he will continue to foment violence, not missing a beat. He must be prosecuted

    —————————————————-

    But sure what does she know eh !

  14. And Lin Wood told Republicans not to vote in Georgia

    What a genius

    Stacey Abrams thanks him very much

  15. so Phantom what do you think of Google and Apple trying to shut down Parler?

  16. Very mixed feelings about that

    Parler has been an aid to riot insurrection and lies

    Something needs to be done about that

    The riot was basically Organized on that site

    I don’t want them to be shut down but I want them to take responsibility and to act like a proper platform not like a dark web lair for criminals and radicals

  17. Patrick

    I read Twitter’s reaons for permanantly suspending Trump’s account today and they amount to two tweets yesterday including the one-liner that he would not be attending the inauguration. They interpreted this as evidence that he was still posting lies about the election. This is censorship pure and simple.

    There will be many on the left who applaud Twitter’s decision, but they should reflect first. Now that censorship is established it could come for them some day. Suppose loss-making Twitter was bought by a pro-Trump rightwing billionaire? Free speech is either for everyone or it ends up being for no-one.

  18. Twitter and Facebook have terror groups with their own accounts….. The Ayatolla was on Twitter this week calling for the death of jews and americans, but that’s ok?

    Parlers rules are very simple….. no threats or calls for violence. Other than that you can say whatever you want.

    What needs to be done?

  19. You see I don’t care if the Ayatollah, KKK, BLM, Nazi’s or whoever say their hate. I encourage it.

    It’s called FREE SPEECH.

  20. I’m going to sound like a stuck record, but it has to be pointed out again. The Parler app runs on Google(android), and Apple platforms through their app stores. as the terms and conditions state, they are perfectly entitled to take this app down.
    However from a personal point of view I completely disagree with this. I also disagree with the removal of Trump from Twitter.

    Peter
    “Free speech is either for everyone or it ends up being for no-one.”
    Absolutely spot-on.

  21. Its not FREE SPEECH if its breaking the LAW, its just Breaking the LAW

  22. DaveA are you supporting speech that whips up frenzy to break the LAW?
    which is what has happened . Its just breaking the law dude – catch a grip !

  23. Trump wasn’t breaking the law when he said he wouldn’t be attending the inauguration.

  24. Peter , Twitter explained his last 2 tweets and the impact they were having on parler and other places – they gave him a fair warning over the last 6 months
    Ejected Out on his arse was totally justified, he aint no model citizen ..

  25. Kurt

    DaveA are you supporting speech that whips up frenzy to break the LAW?
    which is what has happened . Its just breaking the law dude – catch a grip !

    Saying you’re going to murder someone, is not the same as murdering someone.
    I can still support free speech and not support violent protest.
    if these people were deliberately inciting violence then they should be punished for doing so, not have the platforms they used shut down.

  26. the two platforms that control 99.9% of the flow of information shutting down free speech is ok with people like Dave, which is not surprising. It doesn’t surprise me that any of you from that side of the pond don’t see an issue. You don’t have freedom of speech.

    It however is the foundation of society on this side of the pond and corporations are taking the right away because THEY don’t like what someone is saying.

    That isn’t just a threat to the US it’s a threat to humanity, but that’s beyond your ability to process.

  27. This is you people

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SicsQervb4&ab_channel=AwakenWithJP

  28. Patrick

    the two platforms that control 99.9% of the flow of information shutting down free speech is ok with people like Dave, which is not surprising.

    Dave

    However from a personal point of view I completely disagree with this.[shutting down free speech] I also disagree with the removal of Trump from Twitter.

    if these people were deliberately inciting violence then they should be punished for doing so, not have the platforms they used shut down.

    Did you even read what I wrote Patrick.

  29. Troll going full communist again. Twitter, Google, Apple etc… have rules and if you break those rules then off you go. It isn’t about free speech. It is about property rights.

    And the nation of Joe McCarthy doesn’t get to pretend that the foundation of their society is free speech.

  30. the two platforms that control 99.9% of the flow of information

    You also made that figure up.
    The vast majority of information that flows around the internet, is not controlled by Google, Facebook and Apple.

  31. Trump still owns the GOP and he’s not going anywhere. And the base still loves him:

    “In a chandelier-adorned ballroom at the seaside Ritz-Carlton here, there was no mention of President Trump’s disruption of the coronavirus relief package or his phone call to the Georgia secretary of state demanding that he help steal the election, both of which contributed to Republicans’ losing control of the Senate. And while the R.N.C. chair, Ronna McDaniel, condemned the attack on the Capitol, neither she nor any other speaker so much as publicly hinted at Mr. Trump’s role in inciting a mob assault on America’s seat of government.

    Even as the president faces a possible second impeachment proceeding, this collective exercise in gaze aversion was not the most striking part of the meeting. More revealing was the reason for the silence from the stage: Party members, one after another, said in interviews that the president did not bear any blame for the violence at the Capitol and indicated that they wanted him to continue to play a leading role in the party…

    Mr. Trump is the first president since Herbert Hoover to preside over the loss of the White House, the House and the Senate in a single term and will be the first since Andrew Johnson to boycott his successor’s inauguration. That hasn’t yet fazed the Republican rank and file…”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/trump-republican-national-committee.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

  32. A “Camp Auschwitz” sweatshirt was also on display on Wednesday. Classy.

    https://twitter.com/BeschlossDC/status/1346971421134741505?s=20

  33. Risky business Peter. Pointing out that Troll’s fellow travelers are anti-semitic is enough to get you threatened with a ban.

  34. soeone pointed out that there is a whole eco-system going on on networks that are supportive of DJT and violent overthrow, this is the problem .
    Its like a jihadi network, I dunno bout you, but my feeling the best response to protect ourselves is to go down these tunnels with flame-throwers
    which means you don’t get to use free speech cover if you’re plotting terrorist attacks

  35. Once again Johnathan Pie nails it. This time on Trump’s banning.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7paBcllck

  36. Seamus,

    Risky business Peter. Pointing out that Troll’s fellow travelers are anti-semitic is enough to get you threatened with a ban.

    Having your free speech taken away on ATW! Surely not Seamus. 😁

  37. pie missed the most important point , people have died as a result of this insurrection
    560 officers still injured
    it could have been much worse, many went there to hang Pence amongst others
    sorry but you bust jihadi networks , arrest them , charge them
    and that’s what’s happening and that starts with Trump who must now go to jail

  38. Yes Dave. Pie is right that banning Trump from Twitter will simply feed the victim legend. It just makes the schmuck into a martyr and will energise the Trumpist conspiracy nutters even more.

    But it’s also wrong in principle.

  39. Trump isn’t a Nazi, he isn’t a racist, or white supremacist, nor is he any sort of right wing ideological demagogue. That involves having a considered political identity. He doesn’t. Trump is only a ‘Me-ist’ . If you support him, he isn’t bothered what other beliefs you have. If you are holding an ‘I support Trump’ banner in one hand, he doesn’t care what banner is in the other, he won’t be looking at that.

  40. 560 officers still injured

    Think that’s a bit of an exaggeration kurt. Did you mean 56 ?

  41. Colm

    Correct

    Trump is not any sort of conservative

    Patrick and I agreed on this point twice before

    Trump is all over the place and isn’t even consistent with his own views

  42. Colm.

    Well said.

    Trump didn’t specifically instruct people to storm congress. He’s just a narcissistic man child, who couldn’t face the reality that he legitimately lost the election wanted other people to protest repeating his lies.

  43. “It’s called FREE SPEECH. ”

    You don’t believe in free speech.

  44. Correct

  45. It seems things could have been much worse

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/us-capitol-riots-arrest-pelosi-desk/index.html

    “This is who we are.”

  46. trump is a malignant narcissist, but for the greater good I’m glad he’s been muzzled
    He’s led millions up the garden path, and is grifting off them
    we’re looking after them by extinguishing the source
    Its less about free speech , more about a wise course of action
    damage limitation
    ofc he’ll start over, and make a new platform , lets call it TrumpNet
    cos the greatest things he’s getting off them is cash to fund his court cases
    and pay his debts on his properties

    56 yes colm , too mnay noughts .. oops

  47. trump is a malignant narcissist, but for the greater good I’m glad he’s been muzzled

    Kurt

    Do you think it’s a good idea that a corporation like Twitter which is controlled by three shareholders should have the right to decide who gets heard and who doesn’t? I think their previous policy of attaching health warnings to Trump’s lies was quite sufficient. There was no need to ban him and it will probably backfire on them.

  48. I kind of like having sewer rats like Trump and the neo-Nazis and QAnon out there where I can see them

    And once you start banning people, you might want to ban many more people in a parade that doesn’t stop

    Should Twitter ban those who deny global warming?

    Should they ban those who don’t support the migrant trade?

    It will not stop with Mr Trump

  49. These three men exercise enormous power without accountability:

    “Twitter has three main shareholders:

    Evan Clark Williams is one of the board members of the company. He is also the CEO of Medium Inc. and Obvious Corp.
    Jack Dorsey is the CEO and co-founder of both Twitter Inc. and Square Inc. He is the second-biggest shareholder of the company.
    Peter H. Fenton is the third biggest shareholder of the company. He served at the board of members between 2009 and 2016.”

    https://www.instafollowers.co/blog/who-owns-twitter

  50. i only agree with the ban because Trump is the de facto leader of the amalgamation of right-wing domestic terror groups, they’re doing what they’re doing in his name and for him.
    Its more than just a cult he heads , its a jihadi training camp .
    The risks to the public far outweigh any other considerations .
    he only has himself to blame ..
    Its fair and that’s ma roolin on this here supreme court of ATW 😉
    I realise I maybe outnumbered here .. but i wish to register my dissent

  51. i only agree with the ban because Trump is the de facto leader of the amalgamation of right-wing domestic terror groups

    So what if Dorsey decides to ban AOC because “she’s the de-facto leader of violent BLM agitators”?

    You see the problem?

  52. yeah and if she was, and was inciting and spreading lies and whipping up a frenzy, endangering lives ban her azz, .. no problem here
    very specific peter , we’re talking violence and criminality, nothing else
    so phantoms nonsense about who’s next , ppl who disagree with climate change is just that : nonsense

  53. so phantoms nonsense about who’s next , ppl who disagree with climate change is just that : nonsense

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that Kurt. I despise those climate liars but I would hate to see them banned from Twitter. And I think it will probably happen unless Dorsey has a change of heart. It’s appalling that it’s down to one man to make calls like this.

    Banning a US president is a very radical step to take, revolutionary even. And revolutions tend to get more extreme after they start – think Robbespierre, or Brexit. So it will be very surprising if the usual suspects don’t march on and demand that all sorts of liars get banned from Twitter, even the ones who are not urging violence. Like fossil fuel shills, or even the women who say that humans with penises should not be allowed in women’s changing rooms.

  54. i hear ya, but i do believe this is specific to the threat out there right now
    and I’d hate to be wrong about that too ..

  55. Banning people who incite violence shouldn’t be an issue. Banning a president who lied daily about the election, working his base into a seditious, angry mob who stormed the capitol, some with the intent to murder elected officials, resulting in five deaths, also shouldn’t be a problem.

    I see Parlor has deleted Lin Wood’s repeated calls to execute Pence have been deleted. Censorship?

  56. The former law partners of pro-Trump lawyer L. Lin Wood say that he claimed he “might actually be” the second coming of Jesus Christ in a recorded conversation.

    The bizarre claim was made in legal brief submitted last week by Nicole Wade, Jonathan Grunberg and Taylor Wilson, who were all law partners with Wood before starting their own firm and entering into a flurry of legal battles with their former colleague earlier this year. News of the brief was first revealed in a Thursday report from Law & Crime. In addition to hinting that he might be Christ, Wood also allegedly argued that he personally represented a host of other Biblical figures.

    “You’re sitting with Lin Wood. Or has the second coming already started?” Wood is quoted as saying in the brief. “Maybe I’m already here. You want to take the risk that you might be wrong. And I might actually be Christ coming back for a second time in the form of an imperfect man, elevating Christ consciousness.”

    Newsweek

  57. Yeah, saw that earlier, he’s clearly insane.

  58. can’t get more whacko that lin wood , james woods runs close second
    what is it with these woodies, can’t get it up no more , and show some wood
    terrible, but best i got 😉
    nite dahphers et al

  59. Parler has nixed posts shared by controversial lawyer Lin Wood—a staunch supporter of President Donald Trump and the QAnon conspiracy theory—after he was permanently banned from Twitter.

    “Get the firing squads ready. Pence goes FIRST,” Wood posted Thursday morning to Parler, a “free speech” conservative social media network.

    On Friday morning, Wood shared a photo of Ashli Babbit, the Californian Air Force veteran who was fatally shot by police as rioters stormed the Capitol on Wednesday, and claimed that she was still “alive.”

    Newsweek

    That’s not all that he said recently. Wow.

    They wanted Mike Pence to defy the Constitution In order to attempt to force an imposition of Trump for a second, illegal term.

    For this he needed to be executed.

    Crazy people – and there are many of them in this Trump movement – act on messages like that.

    And those who want “ no moderation “ of platforms want this stuff left up

  60. Banning people who incite violence shouldn’t be an issue. Banning a president who lied daily about the election, working his base into a seditious, angry mob who stormed the capitol, some with the intent to murder elected officials, resulting in five deaths, also shouldn’t be a problem.

    I see Parlor has deleted Lin Wood’s repeated calls to execute Pence have been deleted. Censorship?

    No Daphne. Incitement to murder should always be censored. But Trump did not directly incite murder or even violence. I’ve no doubt he was happy with what happened on Wednesday, but free speech is precious and we’ll miss it when it’s gone. The list of countries where it exists is getting shorter every year.

  61. Wonder if he can get away with claiming it’s a parody account taken over by the left when he goes to court ,lol

    Peter correction trump is missing it . We’re not

  62. from the other thread but it fits here also.

    I have to agree with Colm

    You don’t have to speak literally to be tied to the consequences, and his first statement hours after the invasion had occurred demonstrated quite clearly he wasn’t at all angered or repulsed by what was occurring.

    and it needs to be applied EQUALLY….. After a Sanders Supporter shot the republican baseball team putting several bullet holes in Steve Scalise, Congresswoman Waters told people at an event she was speaking to “HARRASS every republican, get in the face of every staff member every republican, don’t let them eat in public, don’t give them a moment of peace, let they no they are not welcome anywhere”

    As city after city burned and people died in riots all summer long not one Democrat would go on record to condemn. VP Kamala Harris put up a tweet encouraging donations to BAIL OUT looters arsonists and rioters, multiple members of President Biden’s campaign staff did the same thing and gave money.

    If that’s not endorsement nothing is….. to after a shooting to encourage harassments, to bailout rioters who caused BILLIONS of dollars of damage and those tweets by Harris are still up on her account she refused to take them down.

    So yes lets apply these standards.

    The tweets and Donations to bail out domestic terrorists by Harris and Biden are both a REAL act of Sedition.

    Ahh but they’re democrats…. Waters, Harris, Biden the Laws and Rules don’t apply to them, they ONLY APPLY to Republicans and if your a Republican Trump supporter well shit just double the sentence whatever it is for wrong thinking on top.

  63. Phantom, on January 9th, 2021 at 9:20 PM Said: Edit Comment
    I kind of like having sewer rats like Trump and the neo-Nazis and QAnon out there where I can see them

    And once you start banning people, you might want to ban many more people in a parade that doesn’t stop

    Should Twitter ban those who deny global warming?

    Should they ban those who don’t support the migrant trade?

    It will not stop with Mr Trump

    Ahh so 4yrs of TDS hasn’t totally fried your brain.

  64. I see Parlor has deleted Lin Wood’s repeated calls to execute Pence have been deleted. Censorship?

    no Daphne Parler has very simple rules. You can not incite violence. So no not censorship.

  65. Censorship of calling for violence is the only kind of censorship that should be permitted Anywhere…..

    No one any where in the world should not be allowed to say publicly whatever especially those saying things others don’t like to hear.

    If you suppress speech as shown through out world history it leads to the development of alternative subversive means of communication it does nothing to suppress the sentiment and it leads it to foment in dark corners rather than being discussed in the light.

    Ideas, and speech that are grown and groomed in the dark never lead to good.

  66. So if somebody wants to spread racial or religious hatred for 24 hours a day that’s fine?

  67. yup….

  68. Phantom those are the ones we especially want speaking in public…..

  69. They should have the right to speak but any private or public website should be allowed to refuse to host their comment

    The site owner has a right of speech also

  70. No

  71. I will elaborate because this is important and really should be understood or at least explained as I see it.

    This site is a Private club and I could and have edited when I’ve seen fit. Most of you don’t like it, I don’t like it, but we all know that the admission to speak here is the understanding that you can be edited and you venture here of your own accord.

    Google, Twitter, Facebook set their sites up as open speech platforms as a utility for people to share and communicate as they see fit. Just as the phone company provides you the means to communicate from one to another.

    A Phone company makes it’s money off of billing you, the 3 other communication utilities make their money not from billing you but by exposing you to advertising. You pay for that utility by viewing those adds, but your reason for being there is to communicate with another person. You are using their network for communication and they are getting paid for it. You are not on google twitter or facebook to communicate with google twitter or facebook just as when you use your phone you are communicating with another person not your phone company.

    If you were having a conversation on the phone and the line went dead as the phone company told you “sorry that is not approved information” and then blocked you from calling that person would you accept it? because that is exactly what google twitter or facebook are doing.

    There is zero difference. I refuse to accept any company that’s product is communication between people the right or ability to then censure that communication and so should everyone else.

  72. ahh missing one thing there in that analogy
    the platforms you cite are in fact public forums
    a phone-call is a private one to one
    that’s where the analogy breaks down and fails
    Diff rules apply to public forums, not least because of the corruption of morals
    hence the disclaimers: No harassment, racial prejudice, sexism etc
    that’s to fall inline with the Laws of the land which prohibit such things
    do your research man !

  73. That’s a good point Kurt. I have to admit I do side more with the free speech side of things , but yes Patrick’s analogy of a private phone conversation being compared to a message on Twitter isn’t an equal comparison.

  74. I am colm , but you’ll find these on virtually every open forum
    “Any material which constitutes defamation, harassment, or abuse is strictly prohibited. Material that is sexually or otherwise obscene, racist, or otherwise overly discriminatory is not permitted on these forums”
    are we saying fuck that ?

  75. It’s too broad Kurt. How do you define discrimination in a comment ? If you preach the word of God on Twitter are you discriminating against atheists. Should proselytising faith then be banned ?

  76. no it’s not a good point it actually points out how even more offensive it is then….

    Because that puts Facebook, Twitter, and Google into the Public Park Genre.

    You go meet your friend at the Public Park Say like we have here in the US Special Green Areas the Land is owned by an individual but it’s designated a public green wilderness zone. The land belongs to a person or group, but the park is tax free because it’s a preserve for the public. And has walking trails, benches for people to enjoy.

    Well you go and your sitting on a bench talking to your friend and the person who donated the space to the PUBLIC at no charge comes over and says “Sorry you two have to stop talking about that, I don’t approve of what you are saying in PUBLIC…..”

    or your sitting on a Bench or at a bus stop on the street talking with a friend or relative and a cop walks up to you and says sorry you’re not allowed to talk about that….

    Saying it’s not a “Private Conversion because it’s being held in public…. BULLSHIT you’d freak out and tell either the person or the cop to go to hell you’ll talk about whatever the hell you want….

  77. those are hypotheticals pat, which don’t occur in real-life
    how bout just face reality
    e.g in UK we had racist comedians in the 70’s , this is no longer cool or acceptable
    so as a nation we have moved on , and no-one want to go back to the ugly illiterate jokes against black people, chinese, or the vulgarity against women.

    for my money its the case that the Right just wants free speech so they can be as abusive as hell and get away with it ..
    I’ve not seen or heard anything that would dissuade me of that view ..
    colm
    I think the line on that is you can preach, but once you start attacking groups, like some hate preachers do in USA , then you’re not welcome in UK
    many have been banned here .
    broadly speaking there are two types of street preacher
    those that set out to antagonise gay people and persecute them with extracts from the OT
    and those who genuinely are inviting people who want to listen t the message od salvation
    The cops end up never arresting the second types

    this isn’t complicated really ..

  78. Who here, when they first signed in to ATW for the very first time, agreed that their words could be edited? I never agreed to that. If what I wrote was deemed illegal, or incitement to violence, or sexual harm or whatever, then yes, I understood that that comment could be removed, but edited? No.

    I think that is more about Troll’s power trip than about actual site policy.

    Or, more likely again – its a misunderstanding cos he don’t read English too good.

  79. This thank god is NOT the UK.

  80. Amazon just took down Parler from the space they rent on the server farm….. Parler is NOT ALLOWED to rent SERVER space because Bezos doesn’t approve of what is said on the site… yet they still host porn sites….

  81. Kurt

    Once again that is your interpretation. Some people could feel attacked purely by someone promoting the view that homosexuality is sinful and goes against Gods will, yet that is a standard religious view. Should that speech be banned ?

  82. colm, its a tricky one , that’s exactly how many if not most in the gay community feel – namely attacked by the word of God. Just the fact its written even

    breakthroughs occur when preachers widen the net to encompass all sexual activity outside of marriage is regarded as sinful . and sure god loves all sinners and came down for everyone as the Son

    I happen to have had the privilege to know and drum n bass with a lesbian copper ( london metropolitan ) who goes to the church i used to go to, she’s still a member. so she clearly feels she belongs and is not attacked because of her sexual orientation .

    other churches are “gay-friendly” , its a mixed bag , esp as 50% of the C of E clergy are themselves gay ..

  83. There is something hilarious about Troll, who bans people for disagreeing with him, complaining about free speech restrictions on the internet.

  84. Jesus F’ing Christ….. is this going to start again today…….

    Seamus if you and Seimi don’t like the site then get the fuck off of it you two pieces of shit.

    No one is holding you here yes I am a monster of control…. you two are couple of pussies who can’t handle that you had your hands smacked.

    Get over it Gentleman I run the site as I see fit……. You don’t like it leave assholes or let it go.

    If not I will Ban you both and anyone who don’t like it can go with you.

    Enough is Enough.

  85. Nothing starting. Just pointing out your hypocrisy. You love censorship on the internet, when you are the one doing the censoring, but complain when people you agree with are censored.

    “you two are couple of pussies who can’t handle that you had your hands smacked.”

    And yet you are such a small, pathetic creature of a man that you can’t even take it being casually mentioned. So who really is the pussy?

    “If not I will Ban you both and anyone who don’t like it can go with you.”

    Go fuck yourself Troll.

  86. Facebook and Twitter were never set up as utilities.

    I don’t think that the owners of those sites have ever used those words in their filings

    Facebook had its beginnings as a small site that was used by college students

    A utility is pretty much an essential service that is a monopoly. An water/sewer or electric provider Is a utility, because it is practically impossible for there to be true competition In the provision of service to a building. You can’t have five sets of water pipes serving an neighborhood

    There are Alternatives to Facebook. Patty used to make that comment here.

    Parler has been set up as a safe space for extremists. The murderous raid on the Capitol Was openly publicized and planned on parler. People said to raid the building there, people,said to bring illegal guns there. The organizers of parler don’t have the right to play Pontius Pilate on that

    That having been said, I am extremely uncomfortable With a few dominant companies banning or boycotting based on their own point of view

    What Amazon has done to parler is a death penalty against a much smaller company. It sounds abusive. I have a big problem with it

  87. I think Amazon (and Google and Apple) have a right to not allow their technology be used for violence. Parler, despite their own rules, have not taken stringent action to prevent Parler being used for violent purposes. And because Parler is being used for violent purposes so, by extension, are Amazon, Google and Apple. It is perfectly acceptable in those circumstances for Amazon, Google and Apple to tell Parler to clean up its act. And when Parler refused it is right for Amazon, Google and Apple to remove their ability to misuse Amazon, Google and Apple’s products.

  88. Parler has not been thought out properly. The more you learn about it, the worse it looks

    Many bad actors on it.

    I choose to stay away from it.

  89. Hey Patrick you claimed that I was okay with shutting down free speech, which is a lie.
    When are you going to apologise for that?

    Patrick

    the two platforms that control 99.9% of the flow of information shutting down free speech is ok with people like Dave, which is not surprising.

    Dave

    However from a personal point of view I completely disagree with this.[shutting down free speech] I also disagree with the removal of Trump from Twitter.

    if these people were deliberately inciting violence then they should be punished for doing so, not have the platforms they used shut down.

    Did you even read what I wrote Patrick.

  90. i dunno why people get worried about banning sites and users whose clear purpose is to cause harm, how about show some solidarity for the victims who are on the receiving end of the harm, be it verbal hostility, or violent threats and plots.

  91. Seamus,

    There is something hilarious about Troll, who bans people for disagreeing with him, complaining about free speech restrictions on the internet.

    I have to laugh as well mate. The double standard of saying ATW is a private site and people can be banned, but the same rules don’t apply to other private sites like Twitter and Facebook.

  92. I am listening to an Israel based talk station

    They are at this moment openly concerned about the concentration of power in global Internet companies, and are Wondering if they themselves will be banned by streaming providers at some point.

    Because “ Israel is an apartheid state, and is violent “ or whatever the cool kids say

    We are rapidly falling down a slippery slope

    https://israelnewstalkradio.com/

  93. Ultimately these businesses are taking business decisions. If their sponsors and their advertisers (or the users of the products of those advertisers) had no issue with the sort of hate speech that is being removed from these platforms then these platforms wouldn’t remove them. They are only removing it because the financial pressure from their advertisers. So in determining which might be next (in the slippery slope context) one needs to wonder what would be opposed by the majority of people (and particularly the majority of younger people who are often the targets of these advertisers). And that is where there is a greater divide in the Atlantic, because I believe that European consumers are more willing to use their financial clout to pressurise Israel into acting in a civilised manner, while Americans are more willing to pretend that Israel isn’t doing anything wrong.

    Now given that these are American companies I would imagine that they would be more tuned into American advertisers who are going to be more tuned into American consumers. As such I don’t see anti-Israeli action being likely by these platforms.

  94. I think one of the main issue here is the perspective that offensive or inflammatory language from the Right is censored more readily than the same thing coming from the left. I am not on Twitter but I have often clicked on links to Twitter accounts that are far more inflammatory than anything Trump has written. Many people on the left will be smiling at what is happening with Trump’s account and the increasing actions being taken to disable Parler but I am not comfortable with it.

  95. How many of those inflammatory comments were made by accounts with the sort of reach that Trump has? Obviously there are always going to be examples of people making extreme or offensive comments on a whole host of platforms. But they are often anonymous accounts with few followers – and thus limited harm. Trump’s account was different. Is there an equivalent of a high profile left wing account, with a large reach, making the sort of incendiary comments, incitements to violence etc… that Trump has made?

  96. the other thing I’ve noticed colm is the differing nature of the threats
    the left in the main goes after some sort of anarchy often property sometimes police , rarely individuals
    The right as pat is always threatening is about “bodies in the street” , and named individuals that’s what they’re interested in , less so property or police .

    The Law clearly values life more than property as sentences reflect that ..

    look no further ..

  97. Trump’s tweets were rambling idiotic nonsenses filled with absurdities, self centred paranoia and yes, they were manna to the right wing groups that supported him, but I don’t believe they in themselves reached the level of specific incitement to violence and hatred that would merit him being banned. Flag the fake claims by all means but stopping him entirely and permanently is unjustified. A lot of people are smugly comfortable about the ban because it is Trump, and although I am as pleased at the end of his Presidency as any of them I don’t share that pleasure.

  98. If I supported a particular party or movement and saw that that my side was wrongfully denied victory in an election due to the other side cheating, then I would certainly do everything possible to restore democracy, and would support violence to that end. Every citizen is not only entitled to but also morally obliged to fight for democracy. Once the democratic system goes, the law goes with it and nobody need feel shy of using force to get rid of the usurpers. If someone operates on the basis of that genuinely held belief, then even assassination is morally justifiable.

    So simply creating the fiction that the US presidential election was stolen through fraud and that Trump actually won by a landslide and that everyone must be brave enough to prevent Biden from becoming president … even if Trump never said anything more inflammatory, and he did, all that is in itself an incitement to civil unrest and political violence.

  99. The issue is simple no rules and it’s anarchy, to many rules it’s oppressive. Open Source platforms vs Private Platforms.

    If you present yourself as a utility Like Google and Amazon because Bezos controls more server banks than you realize but even say ATT because of their shear size and power they control the internet infrastructure. They are utility companies.

    Your utility company does not have the right to decide whether or not you get service based on your political views or anything else. You contract with them for their infrastructure and you pay for it whether it’s through hosting fees or advertising.

    Now if each government wants to set up their own rules on speech as most nations do and do so very restrictively they are more than welcome to do so. If Biden wants to appoint AOC Minister of Speech and have her decide who gets to say what he is more than welcome to do so.

    But Jack, and Jeff and the Google chicom charlie crowd don’t get to do that, and if they are allowed to do it you are creating a world you do not want to live in and you will not like the paths that those in power of whatever party or political bend is control will freely go down when no one is allowed to complain let alone speak except those your betters decide can be heard.

    That is the issue cloak it in whatever you want. Do you want to be able to talk to your neighbor about what you want or do want a small group of very rich people telling you that you are not allowed to have that conversation?

  100. Facebook and Twitter never presented themselves as utilities

    You guys made that one up

    You want to control them – You are the ones who want government regulated speech on their platform

    What do you want is just as much an abuse as anything that Bezos is doing

  101. Phantom.

    A utility is pretty much an essential service that is a monopoly. An water/sewer or electric provider Is a utility, because it is practically impossible for there to be true competition In the provision of service to a building. You can’t have five sets of water pipes serving an neighborhood

    This is absolutely correct. To claim that Facebook or Twitter are utility companies is total nonsense. These are private platforms that have become incredibly popular and they have no obligation to host content if they don’t want to. I do acknowledge that whilst they’re not monopolies, they do have the lions share of the market.

    There are Alternatives to Facebook. Patty used to make that comment here.

    Spot-on. These companies do not own the internet or even control it. Not only are there plenty of alternatives, but with minimal expense you could even set up your own social networking platform.
    The whinging about free speech comes from crybaby Trump supporters, (and Trump himself), because they are not getting their own way. You still have free speech on the internet. And let’s hope that continues to be true.
    All that being said, I think that everyone on here with more than 2 brain cells knows my opinion on free speech by now and I personally do not support them banning Trump.

  102. That’s where Patrick’s arguments fail. In fact the stance he takes is an abuse of free speech. I don’t agree with the ban on Trump’ s Twitter account but the idea that Twitter shouldn’t be allowed to ban him is absurd.

  103. Internet service providers and be hosting companies are much closer to utilities Because if they act in concert to boycott a person or company , there is simply no way for that person or company to communicate in the internet

    Dominant companies are able to destroy companies that they don’t like

    I don’t think that Patrick has thought any of this through, despite All the commentary over the last year

    The American Civil Liberties Union Is very concerned with what Amazon, Twitter, and Facebook are doing

    Those who are cheering on big tech are also making a huge mistake. Bezos will shut Trump up today, And he will silence you tomorrow

  104. no I have thought this through very well FB, Twitter, Youtube and the platforms that are editing private conversations sold themselves as Free Spaces where People can talk to friends and families and share things.

    In the reality of today’s technology it’s a communications network.

    As a communications network is the only way they can be looked at. You go to these sites because they told you can come and communicate with people.

    Now they are saying not only are we listening in on everything you say if we don’t like your views we’re going to shut you down.

    Now if they want to put up a warning label that pops up and says that you are being monitored and they reserve the right to EDIT your speech as they see fit Click here to Enter then sure leave them be, but until then they have created open source communications networks because that’s how they were advertised and they have no right to censure anything or anyone that is not criminal.

  105. Phantom

    Internet service providers and be hosting companies are much closer to utilities Because if they act in concert to boycott a person or company , there is simply no way for that person or company to communicate in the internet

    That’s a really good point Phantom.
    if hosting companies where blocking people, then I would be much more concerned. These companies are the ones that allow you access to the internet, and whilst denying that access wouldn’t take away your free speech in general it would certainly take away your free speech on the internet if you were no longer allowed to access it.
    You still have free speech on the internet even if Twitter banned you.

    This reminds me of the anti maskers in the US. I’ve been watching some videos recently were these Trump supporting cry babies, throw tantrums that their free speech and constitutional rights are being taken away because stores are stopping them from entering without a mask.
    F****** selfish morons, every last one of them.

  106. but until then they have created open source communications networks because that’s how they were advertised and they have no right to censure anything or anyone that is not criminal.

    I see we can add open source to the long list of things Patrick doesn’t understand.

    Open-source

    adjective COMPUTING
    Denoting software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified.

  107. I personally witnessed one of these Mask shirkers give lip to a store clerk, when asked to put the mask on.

    Yes, they are all morons, and yes they are all selfish in the extreme.

    I’m a little disappointed in the Irish contingent here, who have not really said much or anything in all these many months about the Covid deniers and mask shirkers that are a real problem there.

    I know people who work in the health care field there, in Dublin and beyond, and they are beyond stressed at the major overload at the hospitals there, and at the open defiance of the rules that is widespread enough there, as it is in the UK and US.

    You’re not observing or hearing about anything at all?

  108. Phantom

    Do you mean NI, ROI or island of Ireland? 😊

  109. The entire island

    I think that there is a big problem of noncompliance there

    I’m seeing much detailed information, including on social media and major media there on this

    Big problem for the police and health care

    You have many truthers and slackers over there, just as the British and US has them

  110. Phantom.

    I don’t think non mask compliance is bad in the UK and Ireland as it is in the US.
    I’ve been watching some interesting videos on the Nowthis used channel on YouTube showing how strong anti-mask feeling is in the US.
    My own experience of UK’s that the vast majority of people are complying with masks.
    I’ll be interested to get Colm’s experience on this in London.

  111. I know that, and a few of us have been complaining about it as much as anyone else. I’ve had it, so has Peter. Our respective partners also had it. Peter and I have both pointed out that large numbers here ignore social distancing and mock mask wearing.

  112. My own experience of UK’s that the vast majority of people are complying with masks.

    From what I’ve seen in Belfast, compliance has further improved since Christmas and is now close to 100%. Our hospitals are on the point of being overwhelmed and we could see some dark days this month.

  113. There has been significantly improved mask wearing in shops here in London over the last couple of months. Until recently you might see about 10% of people not wearing masks, but in my recent trips I would say it’s about 1 in 50 now who wouldn’t be wearing them.

  114. Colm, do you really need a mask in the light (or dark) of Kurt’s comment on the DV thread? 🙂

  115. What you see in public Is 50% of the story at best.

    There are plenty of reports of illegal parties in Ireland, England, France, some of them very large.

    In Ireland and England, there is the grand old tradition Of pubs staying open after legal closing hours, with trusted customers, With the doors locked and the drapes obscuring view from outside. That is going on in New York City right now, in bars, hookah joints, other places. I witness it, this is no hearsay. I will bet you a Northern Ireland 10 pound note that that type of thing is happening around you at this moment
    If the Irish, English, French, and Americans obeyed the guidance the way the Japanese and Taiwanese do they wouldn’t have the bad results that they have now. The virus does not affect only Westerners

    There have been know nothing rallies against masks in Dublin and across Europe.. I hear reports of police officers being personally targeted for on line abuse in Ireland by these cretins, who are buddies with the Virus Truthers in America and in Britain, who have traded Truther videos like “ Plandemic “ on social media.

    It is the view of some here that “ masks have been tried “ in Ireland, Britain, America. That is completely untrue. They’ve been used by many, not by all. If they were used by all, we would be seeing a different result.

    I invite everybody to look a little bit closer as to what is going on in Dublin, Belfast, London, Liverpool.

    I can send large numbers of press reports of illegal gatherings in all those places if it would be helpful

  116. Yes Phnatom, there have been illegal house parties in Belfast and elsewhere in Northern Ireland. But mask wearing in shops is observed by nearly everyone and there have been no anti-mask protests. There was one half-hearted anti-lockdown protest a few months back but it has not been repeated.

  117. Phantom

    Are you trying to claim that you no more about what is going on in London than I do ? I am not trying to sugarcoat anything or ‘defend’ Londoners. I don’t think that way. I am just observing what I see. I have little doubt quite a few people are mixing in other households, but I have heard very little about pub ‘lock ins’. The vast majority of pubs are visibly fully closed. Parties are going on and are reported in the news but not in large numbers. Mask wearing in shops and transport places is very high indeed now. That is the honest observation from I who live work and moves around in London . I don’t need to be told I am blind to the truth.

  118. The parties that are reported on and which make the papers would not be all of them

    They might be 10% of them. If you see one roach in the kitchen, there are 10 others that you don’t see. Same with this.

    Here or there…

  119. I don’t get your point Phantom. You seem to be implying that the U.K. and Irish contingent here on ATW are in denial about the behaviours in our own countries and you need to educate us about ourselves. Thats quite arrogant and wrong.

  120. we have some idiots protesting and calling masks face-nappies and running down the NHS
    but you won’t find them on here ..
    oh wait , no ,there are one or two ..

  121. Colm Phantoms position is very simple, Lockdowns and Masks work. So the only reason the virus is still spreading is because people aren’t following the rules.

    To him since the virus continues to spread in spite of all the Lockdowns and Masks we’ve already gone through and are already wearing everyone must be cheating.

    The chance that maybe Lockdowns and Masks didn’t do what the Almighty Fauci said they would can’t be discussed (ask Fauci) instead like Fauci Phantom will double down and say we need to stay lockdown and wearing masks for at least another year now according to the Almighty Fauci.

    any discussion otherwise will be banned, deleted, and labeled subversive. (not here though)

  122. Colm

    I am only making the point That near universal mask wearing in public doesn’t impress me much at all

    You keep saying that everyone is wearing a mask on the tube. Well lah dee dah

    Most people don’t live on the Tube

    Most of anyone’s life isn’t in public view. And it is there where the west is falling down completely on this

    There is great anguish being expressed By healthcare workers in Ireland and England and America at The huge amount of noncompliance that is going on, and the death and illness that is inevitably following that

    The people in our countries are not doing a good job at all on this issue, that is all I say. Fauci doesn’t think so, I don’t think that any of our local nurses think so either

    A number of the people on this site have said that they won’t comply – I am sure that they have not. They are not the only friends that this disease has

  123. //Most of anyone’s life isn’t in public view. And it is there where the west is falling down completely on this//

    Is that what causes the huge infection figures, within private households?

    It must be something like that, because mask and distance compliance in public is very high here, and the infection rates are still soaring.

  124. Noel

    I am not speaking of spread within households here

    I am speaking of the many illegal gatherings of young and not so young that is going on

    If everyone was complying why would the west be doing so badly

  125. Phantom

    And I can only comment on what I see and hear. That’s all I am saying. I am not turning a blind eye to any wrongful behaviour. I was asked by Dave to comment on what I saw in public as a resident of London and I gave my truthful answer. I don’t claim we all behaving perfectly here. I couldn’t possibly know that.

  126. 1) its obvious to all bar the dumbest on the planet that masks and social distancing and washing hands helps to reduce the spread, fols still argue that point
    however unless we’re all wearing gas-masks and body suits all we can do is limit this thing.
    does that means we should not follow 1) ofc not
    but there’s many a cretin who can’t follow logic, so they ruin it for the rest of us
    ( and there is the politicking we see in video after video of americans finest roaring and belowing in public places like walmart about their rights – ) jaysus wept

  127. Phantom.

    If everyone was complying why would the west be doing so badly

    Why did Germany do so well in the first wave, and is now doing so badly in the second?

  128. Phantom

    Lots of people have not complied with social-distancing rules. Lots of people have refused to wear masks. In my own area, it was surprising to see how many apparently healthy people who, presumably because of underlying health conditions, weren’t wearing masks.

    But, as Peter said, compliance is much, much higher now. I wouldn’t say it’s 100% yet, but it’s better than it was. Police here were given more powers at the weekend to fine people who breached the rules. We’re back in a lockdown situation. My son has missed so much school this academic year. I have been working from home since last March. Herself, as an essential worker, had to continue going in to work. We have been extremely careful, with hygiene, distancing, masks etc. Still, I caught the virus in September/October, but she and my son tested negative. Then, 5 weeks later, she tested positive, but myself and the wee lad tested negative. I have been tested 5 times now, himself 3 times, and Herself – it’s at least 8, but possibly as many as 10 times. She will only return to work this week, having been off since first testing positive.

    I walk the dog at least twice a day. I avoid other walkers. One good way of doing this is to go out quite late at night. When I do this, I am struck by the silence in a pretty huge housing estate. Normally, there would be voices – muffled maybe, but voices of groups of people, talking, laughing, shouting. Ordinary noises. These nights there is silence, because people are obeying the rules.

    So I would love to see some of this large number of media reports on illegal gatherings here. Shall we start with an easy number? Let’s say 10 for starters?

    I will bet you a Northern Ireland 10 pound note that that type of thing is happening around you at this moment

    I’ll take that bet, though I should warn you that the pubs around here have been closed for ages.

  129. The “masks and lockdowns don’t work” argument is based on the proposition that as the virus is still spreading masks and lockdowns must be useless. They ignore the counterpoint that without masks and lockdowns the spread of the virus could have been many times worse than it has been. Which is not to deny the serious downsides of lockdowns in terms of damage to mental health and untreated cancers and unemployment. But there are no downsides to wearing a mask, it’s really not a lot to expect.

  130. Agreed Peter. Think about the absurdity of the mantra “Lockdowns, mask wearing and restricting social gatherings can’t be working because cases are still going up so let’s try and abandon them, increase peoples exposure to each other and see if that reduces the virus “ madness !

  131. Yes yes yes

  132. I see that the Swedish Parliament has authorized lockdowns

    Their herd immunity strategy, praised by some here, has not been successful after all.

  133. Angels on a Pin, Egg or Chicken. It would have been worse, it didn’t change shit.

    The facts are the virus has been active a year all attempts so far to slow down transmission has failed because the death numbers are getting higher not lower.

    So what is your Prescription for a cure? or at the least to slow the death rate? The vaccine is on line I suggest you get it. The virus isn’t going anywhere and it’s just going to kill who it’s going to kill. Man is not the most powerful lifeform on the planet.

    Welcome to reality. Now end the torture of the public because their safety measures are killing explosion in death from suicide, drugs, while dolling out bankruptcy and despair.

  134. If the US properly does social distancing and mask wearing – which has never happened – very many Americans have never adhered to it – we can fairly quickly return to our offices, theaters, restaurants, Disney.

    President elect Biden upon taking office will set a good example on this, and will use his bully pulpit to ask all Americans to -now- wear masks for 100 days.

    That, along with the vaccines, are the way out.

    Hopefully we are now near the apex of this thing, and that better days are coming soon.

    It can’t be said enough – if we had been disciplined early on, our offices movie theaters and restaurants could have all been open months ago, as those in Japan and Taiwan have been open for ages.

    With some leadership from the top for the first time, maybe the nation can be disciplined for the first time, and we can beat this.

  135. Well Pat ending transmision was never really the goal, nor was it a realistic goal.

    What they were hoping for was to control the spread and keep the hospitalizations to a manageable level, and masks and lockdowns do work for that

  136. To those who believe that masks and lockdowns and closing public entertainment spaces have no effect on transmission because the virus will always find its way to spread , can they explain the reasons for much lower rates and numbers of infections in those Asian countries and a few others like New Zealand ? Surely if the virus can outwit any public restrictions its numbers would be similar everywhere regardless of whatever public policies govts. had enacted ?

  137. New Zealand was smart, with good leadership, but They were also lucky By being far away from the rest of the world

    But yes all those Asian countries are much closer to China, with closer human ties of all kinds, but they nonetheless managed to be in a much better place than we are in. And there are reasons for that.

  138. Sure Colm there is a biological factor or an environmental factor… they have not been able to nail down yet.

    Why in some people once you have it your immune, but others catch it once it goes away and then comes back, also areas that did great against the virus are now getting hit.

    There is a new sub species of a virus we already knew a lot about,(UK) but this virus did not go dormant in the summer as most viruses in this strain. Now it is mutating we have this new variant.

    The only thing effecting the spread of this virus is genetics my Daughter spent the past year in a house where 3 people caught it and her girlfriends mother battled it for 3 months where it kept going away and coming back, the one son almost died, he got sick and it triggered his Leukemia, Lily my daughters partner was sick for 3-4 days and then was fine, but through all this my daughter was tested every 3 days. Her work payed for it.

    So for a three month period in one building with 5 people you had 1 almost die, one wish she would die so it would stop, one that it was no worse than a cold, and 2 that never tested positive yet they were in the same house, no masks living and sleeping together.

    So you tell me there is the world in a microcosm. 5 people one house 3 got sick all to different degrees and 2 never caught it. and at no time IN THE HOME did they practice social distancing or wearing masks.

  139. Patrick

    That is an interesting observation but it still remains the fact that this virus is transmitted person to person. IT isn’t like cancer or heart disease. It doesn’t develop organically, it has to be transmitted, so despite the different reactions in different people to the virus surely it still make sense to minimise person to person contact in myriad different ways.

  140. I don’t think that the average Joe in Japan spends their days doing angels on a head of pin disputing the virus.

    They just get on with it, wear the mask, even when no one is looking, and that’s why they’re so much better off than the deniers and minimizers who has befriended the virus and who keep wasting everyone’s time.

  141. Phantom

    They just get on with it, wear the mask, even when no one is looking, and that’s why they’re so much better off

    I think there are many more reasons as to why some countries are better off virus wise than just wearing masks mate, but I do agree broadly with the point you’re making.
    At the end of the day, the science has demonstrable proof of what works and what doesn’t. Anecdotal stories about your family and friends are not proof of anything. If we made our decisions based on personal experience and what we ‘feel’ to be true, we’d still be burning witches and believing in fairies at the end of the garden