75 3 mins 14 yrs

Everybody has met a small man with a big ego sometime during their life.  Aren’t they a pain?  They are either bragging about their sexual competency, or flexing their biceps, or telling their work colleagues how they single-handedly kicked the s*** out of five gorillas the previous Friday night.  Most, if not all, of these stories are complete codswallop and offer a tonic to their real acknowledgement of their size and capabilities.

I think Dublin, the Republic’s capital city, has a touch of the ‘little man syndrome’.  It may be a good night out for stag and hen parties; it certainly has its fair share of interesting history; and it undoubtedly has been at the vanguard of that country’s economic growth over the past ten years or so.  But let’s not pretend it is anything other than a minor player in the league of world cities.  Nor should we think it is a large city by European standards, let alone global ones.

So I had to chuckle yesterday when I read reports from the Irish Urban Forum about how Dublin could soon have an urban sprawl the size of Los Angeles.  Los Angeles lies at the heart of the world’s largest continuous urban area.  At over a thousand square miles it is half as big again as London’s (which itself is by far the largest in Europe).  Even at current growth rates, it would take Dublin another 200 or so years to equal the size of London, let alone that of LA.  This is a recent satellite image of Dublin taken by NASA 200 miles about the earth.  The orange area clearly indicates the limit of urban growth.  By comparison this is a satellite image of Los Angeles taken from five times the distance away.  Even from 1,000 miles up in the sky, there is simply no comparison.  If anything, this report shows a predilection for certain Irish agencies to engage in sensationalist forecasts, and the willingness of the Irish media – caught up in the wave of economically-inspired arrogance, to go along with them.

Dublin was always marketed as an almost quaint city.  It would be better and more believable if the same method of promotion was applied.  I concede that Dublin has experienced considerable change over recent times – in all sorts of positive ways.  It still shouldn’t brag in a manner that causes those of us who live in countries with GENUINELY massive cities to giggle uncontrollably by making out it is up there with the big boys.

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75 thoughts on “The ‘Little Man’ Syndrome

  1. I can certainly agree with you that you have presented compelling evidence of small man syndrome.

  2. For the love of god…Andrew..Seriously.. Get a life.

    How much time and effort did you put into gathering the information for this post. A post which essentially is a non story, but it gives you a tool for your anti irishness

    You are portraying 2 things

    1) You lack of knowledge about the ROI
    2) You lack of knowledge about Urban planning

    To address the second point first… Urban sprawl is NOT a good thing and Dublin is in no way bragging about this. You are making this up.

    To address the first point, do you know where Kildare, Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford, Dundalk, Droheda, Offaly are ? Do you know where these counties are in relation to Dublin. I bet you dont.

    The point that planners are making is that even today, people are commuting to Dublin every day from these counties, counties which are nearly 2 hours drive away from Dublin. They are driving to Dublin or commuting in trains. If you visited the ROI regularly and visited the towns in these counties you would see the housing estates springing up everywhere to cater for these commuters. Dublin reg cars parked in the drive ways.

    That was the point the reports were making, in that its NOT a good thing for this to happen as the Dublin commuter belt is now encompassing large areas of the rest of the country and encouraging urban sprawl…a BAD thing!

  3. Henry

    Not subtle enough, I’m afraid. I don’t do subtlety, so either offer a comment on the substance of the thread or bugger off!!

  4. >>Do you know where these counties are in relation to Dublin. I bet you dont.<<

    Sorry, should have said counties/towns

  5. Kloot

    This is not about an ‘anti-Irish’ anything. It’s about the power to exaggerate. I would have written something in exactly the same terms if, say, Wellington, had been reported as having a problem of urban sprawl.

    Drogheda, Dundalk – north.
    Kilkenny, Kildare, Carlow – south west.
    Waterford, Wexford – south.
    Offaly – west/north west.

    Hope this helps.

  6. The substance of the thread is that Dublin is obviously big enough a city to capture the intense interest of Andrew in how it may or may not view itself. Andrew, why should you care what the ‘Dublin Urban Forum’ thinks about it’s namesake city. Would it even flicker across your conscience if the ‘Copenhagen or Oslo or Lisbon Urban Forum uttered the same opinions.

  7. Andrew

    be honest, you would probably not even have read such a report about Wellington let alone bothered to comment on it.

  8. Colm

    Yes it would as a matter of fact.

    People commute to London on a daily basis from Leeds and Manchester. I couldn’t imagine anyone here thinking they were part of the problem of London’s sprawl.

  9. Come on Kloot – OK, the ROI is "doing well" at the moment, but your (pl) bragging is a pain in the ass. You still have an inferiority complex about being the least of the components of the British Isles 😉

    <Q>Do you know where these counties are in relation to Dublin. I bet you dont.</Q>

    Boglands still desperate for broadband 😉

  10. >>It’s about the power to exaggerate<<

    Andrew,

    Fine, but the point is… who is exaggerating ? You or them.

    These reports are from qualified individuals who im sure have years worth of experience behind them. Anyone living here can see directly the affect that the centralised economy in Dublin is having on urban sprawl.

    You dont live in the ROI, so you are not acutely aware of the problem. You seem to even doubt its a problem. Im not from Dublin, but i live in Dublin. I see the problem first hand when I travel home to wexford. Traveling through the affected towns and villages. Where it can take 45 mins just to get through a small village.

    You have inferred a tone from these reports which does not exist. This inferred tone forms almost the entirety of your post. What nation on earth would boast about Urban sprawl….

  11. <Q>What nation on earth would boast about Urban sprawl….</Q>

    Goes with your (pl) "Loadsamoney" and "I’ve got considerably more money that youw" mentality Kloot 🙂

  12. >>People commute to London on a daily basis from Leeds and Manchester. I couldn’t imagine anyone here thinking they were part of the problem of London’s sprawl.<<

    You see, again your lack of knowledge of the ROI economy is showing here. The point is that the celtic tiger or what ever you want to call the damn thing, was almost entirely focused in Dublin. Its where the majority of the major companies located and its where the absolute majority of the citizens of the nation live and work.

    The secondary cities do not compare in size at all to Dublin, and hence they do not take the pressure of Dublin in the same way that Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds do for the UK. Therefore the planners are looking to develop a counter weight to Dublin in the west to try and prevent the Urban sprawl that is currently happening and looks likely to get worse.

    >>Come on Kloot – OK, the ROI is "doing well" at the moment, but your (pl) bragging is a pain in the ass.<<

    I aint biting Madradin 🙂

  13. >>Goes with your (pl) "Loadsamoney" and "I’ve got considerably more money that youw" mentality Kloot :)<<

    Still not biting 🙂 … its just too obvious

  14. So it takes you a while to get to Wexford. The point I’m making is that compared to a journey from the centre of London to Chelmsford, High Wycombe or Reading, a ride to Wexford will be a walk in the park.

    BTW, a million homes are planned for the south east over the next twenty years, more than for all the other UK regions combined. So I think this bit about ‘capital-centric’ arguments applying to Dublin and not London is cobblers.

  15. "being the least of the components of the British Isles"

    Surely you are referring to poor little NI Mad!;)
    Once the powerhouse of empire – now a subsidy dependant little backwater – all together say awwww.

    NI has declined (except war years) every year since partition.

    In relative terms it is now scraping the barrel of where it once was.

    Sad really.

  16. >>The point I’m making is that compared to a journey from the centre of London to Chelmsford, High Wycombe or Reading, a ride to Wexford will be a walk in the park.<<

    I havent a clue what a journey from the centre of London to Chelmsford is like… in the very same way that you havent a clue what a journey from dublin to wexford is like… what has that point got to do with urban sprawl in Dublin.

    Lets get some facts straight here Andrew. An engineering forum releases a report which Irish media pick up on and yourself of course. The purpose of the report was to highlight to the Irish government the problems facing Dublin with regards to Urban sprawl.

    You try to turn what is an engineering report about the problems facing Dublin in the future into a competition into which city might have the biggest urban sprawl… who gives a fiddlers… If you think people are going to get involved in a debate of the form "Our Urban sprawl is worse then yours" or "our city imprints are bigger then yours" well then I think you will be sadly disappointed.

    >>So I think this bit about ‘capital-centric’ arguments applying to Dublin and not London is cobblers.<<

    Do some research and then get back to me. Its pointless discussing the negative side effects of the last 15 years of economic activity in the Irish economy on urban planning with someone who clearly is lacking in the knowledge required for the debate or is unprepared to research the topic.

  17. Not really D4 – one has to factor in the damage done by insurrectionists and their allies in your neck of the woods. But these things even out in time 🙂 Sure the ROI is nouveau riche at the moment – I’m old enough to remember when Nigeria was Africa’s equivalent of the ROI.

  18. Kloot

    I know precisely what travelling in and out of Dublin is like by car. Compared to London, Paris, Naples and Rome (all other EU cities I have had the experience of driving in) it is Sleepy Hollow, pal.

    My point is that, whatever ‘urban sprawl’ is seen in and around Dublin, it is small fry compared to what has been witnessed elsewhere in Europe since the War.

    Whatever the calls you make for academic research, the basis of the report is that Dublin would be as big as LA, not Berlin, Madrid or Melbourne. It is patently bullshit.

  19. I wasn’t discussing the ROI Mad – I was discussing NI.
    Thats a great argument – blame it on the troubles.

    Ulster’s mantra.

    The last 10 years have been the most peaceful yet NI’s productivity has continued to decline and the level of subsidy from all angles has continued to increase.

    Yes the troubles caused problems but to blame all the decline on them shows either stupidity or blind ignorance – or both.

    Ulster was in the 1910’s the most prosperous, most industrious, wealthiest and one of the most productive of both these Islands – it was constantly referre to as ‘Ireland’s Powerhouse’ etc.

    Modern day NI (covering two thirds of what was Ulster) is economically feeble, socially & culturally divided. And all it’s politicians ever seem to do is ask London for more money.

    Where’s the risk taking? The wealth creation? The innovation?

    How many private companies are there employing more than 500 people?

    You see Madradin, in relative terms it has all gone pear shaped for gods chosen people.

    It really is sad. Genuinely.

    London has to pay billions each year and will need to do for decades (fingers crossed that partition holds up)…….

    Nothing to do with ROI at all mad. JUST NI !!!!!

    (well it was you that mentioned "being the least of the components of the British Isles" NI of course.

    The decline started way before 1968. Ship Building, the linen industry etc – all gone by the wayside.

    Look at it in terms

  20. Most Dubliners are sensible, level headed people with a good sense of responsibility. Unfair to tar them all with the same brush.

    But the syndrome does exist, like the guy who claimed GAA was a more popular global sport event than World Cup! It usually revolves around a small clique with the mantra "our selves alone" who emitimise a dying breed of mono-cultural, nationalistic, bigoted and xenophobic Oirishness.

  21. >>Whatever the calls you make for academic research, the basis of the report is that Dublin would be as big as LA, not Berlin, Madrid or Melbourne. It is patently bullshit.<<

    No!! thats not what the basis of the report is! You are misreading it. The report says "Dublin will soon have a footprint the same size as Los Angeles"

    Its not saying Dublin the city will be the same size as LA, its not saying that Dublin the county will be the same size as LA, its suggesting that the footprint of Dublin will be the same size as LA. That is not the same thing. What its trying to get at is if the growth of development around Dublin continues at the rate it is, then over time it will become unmanageable and will reach the scale of the footprint for LA.

    Maybe your interpreting footprint differently to me. I think you have visions of one continuous development area stretching from carlow straight to D4. Thats not what people are saying here.

    Take for example the fact that the Dublin County Traffic Plan now have to take into account towns as far away as Carlow.

  22. Kloot

    Yes it used the term ‘footprint’. It also used the term ‘urban sprawl’ in its title. Blame the report, not my reading of it.

  23. >>But the syndrome does exist, like the guy who claimed GAA was a more popular global sport event than World Cup! It usually revolves around a small clique with the mantra "our selves alone" who emitimise a dying breed of mono-cultural, nationalistic, bigoted and xenophobic Oirishness.<<

    Fare point NRG. You and I both know that there are small minded fools to be found hanging off every street corner across the globe. I think you would surely agree that by that token there are similar people in both communities which are hopefully a dying breed. Its not isolated on one community.

  24. D4 – The Blog is about the nouveau riche "Considerably more money than youw" ROI – Europe’s Nigeria.

    Kind of hard to establish a base in NI when people like Thomas Neidermeyer and Geoffrey Agate were murdered by the Organisation with the bolt-hole over the border.

    <Q>The decline started way before 1968.</Q>

    Read some history – Terrorism didn’t start in 1968.
    It has been an ongoing problem.

  25. OK mad – talk about the ROI’s economy – talk about terrorism, the weather, Jordan’s latest boob job – talk about whatever – as long as you can avoid looking at Ulster’s relative delcine and addiction to subsidy.

    Sad.

  26. >>The orange area (on the map) clearly indicates the limit of urban growth.<<

    Andrew, Dublin’s northern limit of expansion is Ballycastle, Co. Antrim!

    I agree tho, that Dublin has always been punching above its weight, and its narcissism can be annoying.
    Here’s how a famous Belfast Prod saw it.

    But yet she holds my mind
    With her seedy elegance,
    With her gentle veils of rain
    And all her ghosts that walk
    And all that hide behind
    Her Georgian facades –
    The catcalls and the pain,
    The glamour of her squalor,
    The bravado of her talk.

  27. "Kind of hard to establish a base in NI when people like Thomas Neidermeyer and Geoffrey Agate were murdered by the Organisation with the bolt-hole over the border"

    Thats still troubles era mad. – what about the last TEN YEARS !!!

    Stop MOPING about the troubles and take some responsibilty 😉

  28. It sounds to me like its a bunch of Dublin 4/An-Taisce types doing one of their greeny dances to me.

    Best ignored, except that a lot of the Irish MSM listens to these twats.

  29. Ten years is buttons D4 – it took what is now the ROI 70 years odd to get over what was after all only a couple of years of turmoil of it’s "troubles" in the 1920s before it found it’s feet.Let’s see how things stand in a few more decades !

  30. Crikey Andrew you really have shown yourself up on this one.

    This report was critical – not ‘bragging’

    Urban sprawl is a bad thing – Dublin suburbs now stretch to most of the province or leinster and parts of Ulster (mostly Cavan and Monaghan).
    Housing estated going up with miles of countryside between each development. – This is very bad.
    Yet you think Dublin is in someway bragging ? Weird.
    Population wise Dublin is nowhere near LA or New York or London, this is about the bad use of land and bad planning.

    Once again me thinks you let prejudice and bias get in the way of the facts.

  31. >>It sounds to me like its a bunch of Dublin 4/An-Taisce types doing one of their greeny dances to me.<<

    Its a report by Engineers Ireland a highly qualified group of individuals.

  32. ‘Dublin suburbs stretch to parts of Ulster’. By the same token, London’s suburbs stretch to West Yorkshire and Bristol.

    What a load of garbage!! A sphere of influence is not the same as a suburb.

  33. <em>The last 10 years have been the most peaceful yet NI’s productivity has continued to decline and the level of subsidy from all angles has continued to increase.</em>

    Would you like to produce some fugures to prove these two statements D4?

    How do you define "productivity", for example? GDP per head?
    Check out the stats and let’s have it out in the open.

    And while you’re at it, check out last week’s report in the Economist about the present state of the UK, some interesting *facts* there which disprove some sweeping statements you made on here several weeks ago.

    Regarding the whole Dublin ting, I can’t believe any rational person, having actually been there, would boast about having an urban sprawl the size of LA, and I don’t think that’s what the Irish Urban Forum are doing. The big problem for the ROI is this over-importance of Dublin in relation to the rest of the country, that’s what the report is pointing out surely?

  34. Re the first paragraph, pretty accurate. Napoleon had little man syndrome. God what a giant useless pain in the arse he was. It always makes me laugh the French hold him in such high esteem.

  35. Andrew clearly you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Quit while you’re behind. This is about Urban Sprawl and the environment in an Irish context.

    Instead of builing up planners are allowing developers to build on green land outside of the established city (as shown in your link)

    This report is about the lack of rhyme or reason to the growth of the dublin area.

    That you could deduce ‘bragging’ from a highly critical report says more about your mentality than anything else.

    Yes sometimes people do get carried away and exaggerate – like the Head of Yahoo or was it google ? opening their european headquarters describing Dublin as Europe’s Ellis Island.
    Clearly going over the top and exaggerating but you focusing on this report and taking it as ‘showing off’ – ‘my urban sprawl problem is bigger than yours’….. is just crazy.

  36. Kloot – absolutely agreed. There are more than enough paranoid insular nutters arond here.

    This topic is hard to get throught without an benign observation being taken for some sort of bigoted insult.I often recieve stick for voicing criticisms of the Republic which were passed on to me by Dubliners.

    Generally I think Northern Ireland could do with a goodly dose of the self reliance, confidence and wealth creation ethos that the Reoublic has developed over the last 2 decades and a stronger good neighbours relationship would serve us all well. I do however balk at the vestiges Griffiths gaelic utopian mythology and Celtic uber alles attitude that pops up here and there.

  37. "The big problem for the ROI is this over-importance of Dublin in relation to the rest of the country, that’s what the report is pointing out surely?"

    Yes Paul, this is part of the problem. No country should be entirely dependant on one region for it’s development. It’s not healthy. We need balanced development centred around other cities – like in the UK or France or even similar sized countries to Ireland – Scotland springs to mind.

  38. "I do however balk at the vestiges Griffiths gaelic utopian mythology and Celtic uber alles attitude that pops up here and there."

    As a Dubliner I could have said the very same thing and meant it with conviction.

    Northern Republicans and their ilk from the poorer suburbs of west Dublin are very very different indeed to most people here now.

    I think some Unioinists unfortunately look at the S(h)inners and think we are all like that down here.

    Fact of the matter is that they and people like them are the past.

  39. Armaghlite

    Clearly I DO know what I’m talking about. You have a report here which infers that Dublin will be the same size as LA – a line of argument adopted by much of the Irish press.

    It is crap! All the other arguments are sideshows.

  40. >>Generally I think Northern Ireland could do with a goodly dose of the self reliance, confidence and wealth creation ethos that the Reoublic has developed over the last 2 decades and a stronger good neighbours relationship would serve us all well. I do however balk at the vestiges Griffiths gaelic utopian mythology and Celtic uber alles attitude that pops up here and there.<<

    Im in 100% agreement with you. As D4 said in his last post, there are as many of us down here who detest "Griffiths gaelic utopian" as there are in NI.

  41. >>You have a report here which infers that Dublin will be the same size as LA <<

    Its talking about greater Dublin..

    >>a line of argument adopted by much of the Irish press.<<

    Media outlets take a report and sensationalise it.. hardly new that now is it !

  42. >>You have a report here which infers that Dublin will be the same size as LA<<

    And do you see this as bragging ?

    If the Fine Gael came out with a report tomorrow saying that crime levels in Dublin would soon be 3 times the european average… would you then also consider this to be bragging

  43. <Q>As D4 said in his last post, there are as many of us down here who detest "Griffiths gaelic utopian" as there are in NI.</Q>

    Not quite what he said, but close enough!

  44. >>Not quite what he said, but close enough!<<

    Points for trying ?? 🙂

    Dont get me wrong though. Im as Irish as the next person, the history and culture is part of who I am.
    I just dont believe in holding it up on some sort of pedestal. It is what it is. Nothing more. Some of it needs a good fire lit underneath it to drag it into the 21st century

  45. Madradin Ruad, your comments display a pathetic prejudice and an enormous amount of ‘what about-ery’ that you normally have the hypocrisy to condemn others for. Are you honestly saying that ROI had its 1920s GDP rate right up until the 1990s (i.e. no economic growth in that first 70 years of independence)? Also, UK economic policy predominantly benefits the South East of England, and London in particular. This is the reason I wish Scotland to gain independence. Are you claiming that without the troubles that Northern Ireland would have bucked the economic trend experienced by the other peripheral UK regions, despite being so socially divided? Incidentally, I read recently that NI is one of the most bigoted places in the developed world. I presume from your attitudes that you come from Northern Ireland.

    A McCann
    Why do you dislike the Irish so much? I’ve being reading your site for a while now and at times you display hatred for them. What have they done to you personally? You use unnecessarily pejorative language when ever you discuss any ‘Irish’ issue. I’ve met many Southern Irish people and have been to Southern Eire. As far as I can make out they aren’t plotting to take over NI, or to join the IRA. In fact, quite the opposite. The ones I’ve met aren’t even anti-British.

  46. Ian – we have to face facts – the "wealth" of the ROI is very recent. Point I was making was that it’s hardly fair to compare the ROI today, some 8 decades after it’s "troubles" ended with NI less than 10 years after the Belfast agreement. If NI had acted as the ROI’s Syria for more than 30 years do you think the ROI would be sitting pretty ? If Dublin, Cork, Limerick etc had had 30 + years of bombings would any comparison be fair.

    Secondly – NI is an integral part of the UK. If you want to single out NI from the rest of the UK then possibly a fairer comparison would be a comparison with one of the republic’s depressed areas.

    Am I "prejudiced"? Silly comment. That’s like accusing an American of being "Prejudiced" against Syria or Afghanistan or any of the countries that aided and abetted the terrorists that attacked it. People in NI have every right to resent a neighbouring country that aided and abetted terrorist attacks. Of course I’m Bleedin’ Prejudiced. For 80+ percent of my life the ROI has given shelter to terrorists attacking my community.

  47. Iain

    I’ve already given my response with regard to the same question posed by Billy. I ain’t going to go over it again.

  48. IAIN

    ole mister mccanne is just a little bitter because the ROI has never recognized the brilliance of his arguement and surrendered unconditionally to his mighty intelect.

    Its either that or hes a xenophobe, you pick

  49. ‘Xenophobe’ = a word Sean suddenly discovered one day in his children’s dictionary and thought it would be good to use it in, not one, but two posts.

  50. Andrew: I suppose one could ask for your particulars as to height considering the nature of the post. But does one really have to be small of stature to be small of mind?

    Dublin has an intersting history and much to be proud of. It has its share of problems like any other city. I can only advise the good people there that Los Angeles may not be the model to strive for.

  51. >> I can only advise the good people there that Los Angeles may not be the model to strive for.<<

    Am i the only one that has actually read this report ( well at least some of it )

    http://www.iei.ie/PressArchive/pressdetails.pasp?INT_NEWS_ITEM_ID=420&recordsperpage=20&PageNumber=1&ShowTab=1&MenuID=20

    They are not using LA as a model. A single line at the start of the report states….

    "Dublin will soon have a footprint the same size as Los Angeles with less than a quarter of its population according to a report published by the Urban Forum, which is calling for large-scale development of Cork, Limerick and Galway to create an "Atlantic Gateway"."

  52. Madradin Ruad
    I disagree with pretty much everything you say there bar how you feel about the ROI
    If Eire’s wealth is a recent thing, then it is fair to compare it with the recently peaceful NI. Both were economically depressed in the 1990s, both have been relatively peaceful since the 1990s, one has now progressed economically and the other hasn’t.
    I don’t buy the implication that if there hadn’t been the troubles somehow NI would have performed aswell as the ROI. Even if the troubles hadn’t occurred you still would have lost all the heavy industry as we did here around Glasgow, you still would not have had control of economic policy. The troubles came about in NI because of the social and political divisions (and certain injustices I guess) within NI. The people of Northern Ireland are responsible for the troubles. The other way of putting it is that the ROI has been doubly successful, as they have managed not to have any troubles. They succeed both economically and socially/politically. Also, I’m sure the ROI has been involved in arming criminals (did they make bombs for use in NI?), but since some loyalists were trained/armed through UDR/RUC affiliations, are you prejudiced against the UK too? The loyalists were part of the troubles too after all and the UDR was an agency of the state. MI5 seems to have been implicated too recently. I guess you’re prejudiced against America too, as they harboured terrorists and refused to extradite them. NORAID even funded them. Fair enough though, you’re perfectly entitled to feel prejudiced against the ROI. I think I’ll take a leaf out of your book and be prejudiced against NI as you guys bombed us over here on the mainland.

    AmcC
    Didn’t see that. i should read you site more often. also, apologies for being totally off topic.

  53. ‘I suppose one could ask for your particulars as to height considering the nature of the post.’

    You do subtlety almost as badly as Henry.

    ‘But does one really have to be small of stature to be small of mind.’

    No, but beginning responses to Internet articles with snide remarks is a good indicator.

  54. Andrew: Suggestion: attain a thicker skin if you are going to write the way you write. You write a demeaning post and that get offended when the response is less than salutatory. Come on, if you go to the beach you can’t complain about finding sand and water.

  55. Here’s my take!

    Dublin is clearly not like LA. But Dublin is expanding and I know that this is causing all kinds of infra-structure issues, traffic problems, housing issues etc. My own view is that Dublin will grind ever slower, with the M50 rapidly becoming the Irish equivalent of the M25. So it’s good that planners try and deal with these issues but it’s hard to see how the massive traffic issue can be resolved.

  56. Mahons,

    My aunt used to go to the beach (at Rockaway) and complain about the sand and the water and the noise and the people. Maybe Andrew and I are related (shudder).

  57. ‘Suggestion: attain a thicker skin if you are going to write the way you write.’

    Suggestion: stick to the substance of the article.

    There is nothing ‘demeaning’ about the post. I didn’t say Dublin was a hole, or a slum, or some such remark. I simply pointed out the potential to exaggerate.

    Neither am I ‘offended’. It’s just that when I visit the beach, I don’t expect to be swimming amongst turds floating in on the tide.

  58. David – the answer is simple – The traffic problem will be sorted (or ameliorated at least) by builing new train lines to commuter towns in Leinster and parts of south Ulster.

    They also need to increase capacity on current lines, more tram lines in Dublin and completing the underground they are proposing.

    But for any of that to work they need to stop being afraif of tall buildings in central Dublin and stop builing on Green Belts.

    – I think this is what the report was saying!

  59. "I don’t expect to be swimming amongst turds floating in on the tide"

    Thus proving that he can give it but he can’t take it!(thats the rumor anyway!!)

  60. Rumour has it that Iain can put together a cogently reasoned argument.

    So much for rumour.

  61. Andrew: The substance of your literary efforts is far too often antagonistic, an observation that I am not alone in making. It may be your style, but it doesn’t lead to convincing others and often undermines certain points you wish to make. If you write in a confrontational style, you have to take a little flack back. I’ll give you some credit for being able to return fire with fire, but if you start off on a more balanced note, you might not have to.

    In any event, I was troubled to learn of your swimming misadventures. The only remedy I can think of is to go BEFORE you get in the water.

  62. you’re being unfair on Iain (there seems to be two of us)

    i’ll call myself Glasgow Iain in future (if i can remember) so as not to damage the other Iain’s reputation

  63. ‘The only remedy I can think of is to go BEFORE you get in the water.’

    It would depend on who’s nearby. If Irish nationalist-inclined Yanks were frolicking in close proximity, I’d have to take laxatives before donning the trunks.

  64. Andrew: No need to take the laxatives, we probably would scare the s–t out of you (have you ever seen our type by the sea? Sunburned with dark socks in sandals).

  65. LOL Andrew you may be a dumb ass but it is entertaining watching you try to swim against the shit tide

    OH by the way I got xenophobe from my word a day calendar just not entirely sure why it included a picture of you. And then I read your pathetic posts and understood immediately

  66. Sean

    I doubt you ever understood anything immediately. I bet the village idiot had to show you which bit of your mother was ‘serving the drinks.’

  67. Ian – compare like with like – lets compare NI with part of the Free State – say Sligo and Leitrim, 10 years after the Free state’s equivalent of the troubles ended, in the 1930s. Your claim that NI has been "relatively peaceful since the 1990s" shows your ignorance, as does your "analysis" of the troubles.

    The difference this time round was that unlike every other time the IRA went on the offensive, this time the ROI didn’t clamp down – they helped and sheltered them. No internment, no aggressive policing, even after the political reforms campaigned for by NICRA were instituted – Because the troubles weren’t about what was happening IN Northern Ireland – they were about trying to force NI out of the union. I suspect some of the attitudes over the border were whipped up by the celebrations of 1966.

    So – the terrorist gangs of PIRA and INLA were, as long as they kept their noses clean in the ROI, by and large not troubled by the state. There was collusion – active or passive at all levels – from withing the army of the ROI, the Gardai, the Justice system and the Government. Extradition ? Forget it. Where were the Arms dumps ? In the ROI. From where were the murderous attacks launched ? From across the border -and even post Belfast agreement murder attacks have been launched from across the border.

    The ROI Government then used the slaughter in the North to extract concessions and for leverage against NI.

  68. Spent last weekend in Dublin (finally keeping a promise to my cousin to visit just to see them – nothing to do with politicis or victims issues).

    Really pleased to get a good peice of medium rare roast beef in a restaurant! I have trouble getting it in London. H&S is quoted as the reason.

  69. Aileen,

    Scroll up to my response to Mahons at 05:24PM. It contains a link to some photos that pertain to part 3 of my story for you (which I haven’t written yet).

  70. Alan

    Did! It is good that the firefighters are remembered. They do tend to get overlooked. I await part 3 with interest :o)

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