47 1 min 15 yrs

‘Coming barely a year after the digusting riots in Dublin, the England/Ireland match at Croke Park and the reaction to the playing of God Save the Queen will give many of us a chance to see if a significant minority of the Irish population has matured since then.  I have my doubts.’  Discuss.

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47 thoughts on “Talking Point – 21.02.07

  1. GSTQ has already been played at Croke Park 3 years ago during the Special Olympics. Though I think GSTQ was booed at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff the last time NI played Wales.

    Glasgow Iain

  2. An unnecessary controversy. If National Anthems are to be played than common courtesy demands that it be played and the crowd observe it respectfully. We have idiots over here who have booed the Canadian anthem in Yankee stadium, further proof that sporting events are not exclusively attended by rocket scientists.

  3. I hear the joke going round in Dublin is that England can’t win on Sunday as they won’t have machine guns and armoured cars to back them up this time.

  4. >>Coming barely a year after the digusting riots in Dublin, the England/Ireland match at Croke Park and the reaction to the playing of God Save the Queen <<

    Wheres the connection ?

    I dont understand what the ordinarday decent dubliner/irishman has to do with the scum that caused havoc that day…please explain.

    Im sure some people will boo GSTQ, there are no really totallities when it comes to human nature. The vast majority in my opinion will respect it. If they dont ill be disappointed.

    Now, lets hope that the english team members show due respect to the Irish president and not insult her and the Irish nation in the same nature again… hows about a talking point on that.

    Me, well, im looking forward to a great game, and some good banter with my fellow english rugby supporters afterwards…

    I can post the result here for you andrew if you want! or will you be watching ?

  5. <Q>I hear the joke going round in Dublin is that England can’t win on Sunday as they won’t have machine guns and armoured cars to back them up this time.</Q>

    ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    (Oirish History courtesy of Neil Jordan)

  6. Denial ? There WERE no armored cars at Croke park. That, like so much nationalist history, never happened. And how many times do you have to hear a "joke" before you stop finding it funny?

  7. Andrew is being hypocritical is seeking to judge the RoIs ‘maturity’ based on the respect shown to the singing of GSTQ at Croke Park considering he has often and openly welcomed and supported the burning of Irish tricolours at 12th of July bonfires in Northern Ireland.

  8. Mad

    I knew you would comment. You can’t defend Andrew on this although I knew you would try. He is saying , You Irish must respect our cultural represantations of nationhood, while I will encourage people in my country to desecrate yours. It is pure hypocrisy.

  9. >>There WERE no armored cars at Croke park.<<

    Sad that your mind won’t allow you to recognise the truth about an event 86 years ago even now when Ireland – north and south – is finally coming to terms with its past (sigh!)

  10. Andrew,

    What did you make of the reaction of the crowd to the last time GSTQ was played in croke park. Did you find that respectful enough

  11. <Q>I knew you would comment.</Q>

    I knew you would expect me to Colm and didn’t want to disappoint!

  12. Kloot

    So let’s talk about how the Oirish were (gasp) insulted because England lined up on the ‘Oirish’ side of the halway line. McAleese wouldn’t have had to dirty her shoes if the dumb Oirish team had just stood on the other side, and there would have been bugger all to report on if the IRFU hadn’t got their knickers in a twist over a nothing incident.

    Really, look at yourselves. You’d think that Captain Johnson had marched into the centre of the pitch and burned the tricolour! So England stood in the half where Irland like to. Diddums. Get over it.

  13. Pete: Did you consider the point in the post about maturity? Of course not. You are no better than any cretin who feels the need to boo at the game.

  14. Pete

    It was a purposely intended insult!! Bad manners plain an simple. But if thats something your proud in a person/team..well fair enough. Thats the difference between me and you i suppose.

    Oh.. and the ‘Oirish’ bit.. classic… broke me b*lls laughing at it… ohh ar master marner!!

  15. Pete Moore

    Pathetic post.

    Andrew

    I doubt that there will be any issues with GSTQ at the weekend. Hopefully, I will be proved right.

    If you’re interested in "fans" disrespecting National Anthems, how about the NI "fans" shouting "No Surrender" during GSTQ or try listening to the anthem of any team that play England at soccer – you’ll find it difficult to hear due to the England "fans" booing.

  16. Folks,

    To say that I will be in Dublin for the game! I’ll be the one in the Union Jack waistcoat, wearing a Sash, and burning an effigy of Bertie Ahern. So, it’s goodbye from me…

  17. I think this was discussed before, but why is GSTQ – the anthem of the UK – being played for an England game, anyone know?

    Some of the Irish team are from NI, and it seems absurd that their national anthem will be played for the opposing team!

  18. >>and burning an effigy of Bertie Ahern.<<

    Careful now.. better make sure you use smoke free materials.

    Seriously though davo (get used to the short version for Dublin), enjoy yourself. Bring plenty of yo yos as its pretty expensive these days down there.. see you in the temple bar for a few later 🙂

  19. David,

    If your down early.. and have a free hour or so. It might be worth your while taking a trip out to collins barracks to check out the new display on the Irish in battle from the 1600’s… an excellent display by all accounts. You can take the daniel day ( the Luas ) right to the door

  20. David, if you have time, do go to Elephant and Castle in Templebar and ask for their rather legendary spicy chicken wings. They are delicious with a cold beer. Might be a nice post match nibble.

  21. <Q>Some of the Irish team are from NI, and it seems absurd that their national anthem will be played for the opposing team!</Q>

    British sense of Fair Play – this way ALL the British players get to hear their national anthem.

  22. >>David, if you have time, do go to Elephant and Castle in Templebar and ask for their rather legendary spicy chicken wings.<<

    SSShhhhh.. dont be giving away our secrets!!! Chips are nice there and all

  23. David, if you’ve time you could visit the Dail buildings, and marvel at the idea of one day representing "The North" as a TD

  24. Thanks for the ideas! I have friends flying in from several countries and we will all have a good time, enjoying the hospitality of Dublin. Blogging may be slow on Sunday from yours truly….

  25. >>and burning an effigy of Bertie Ahern. <<

    You’re going to be in Bertie’s constituency and drive/walk past his local, so be careful.

  26. David: Have a good time and I think it was very brave and generous of you to offer to model for a restored Nelson Pillar.

  27. Kloot

    Be sure to tell us which way to park the team coach. We don’t want any diplomatic insults.

  28. Cunningham

    Please – get it out of your mind, or I might have to start questioning your sexuality 🙂

  29. What ever Pete….. 🙂

    I suppose you would find no insult should the Irish have done the same in twickenham…

    I suppose you would have been on ATW jumping to the defence of the Irish.. if the answer is YES, then fair enough.. if otherwise… well nuff said.

    If the Irish team had performed a similar act at Twickenham I would have been very dissapointed with them..

  30. Just so its clear…. It didnt bother me the least what johnson did that day… thats not the point I was making.. my point was that its not the irish side that needs to prove its maturity..not their fans.

  31. Kevin Myers (certainly no big fan of GAA nationalism) in today’s Indo:

    "The anomalies accumulate. Whenever God Save the Queen has been sung in Lansdowne Road, it has been accorded a respectful silence. But when it is played for English visits to Cardiff or Edinburgh it is treated to a yobbish caterwauling, though Queen Elizabeth is the monarch of the kingdom to which both Scots and the Welsh have chosen to remain part. No doubt they feel that adolescent displays of bad manners are ways of asserting their national identity; but making oneself appear ignorant on great occasions has not been a traditional Irish characteristic, and certainly not a GAA one. Dignity, even at times of profound difference, set people of breeding apart from the mob."

  32. the most amazing thing I learned on this blog …… david has freinds!!!!!!!!!!!!

    lmao

    have Fun David wish i was there, don want the hot wings but the beer sounds good

  33. Best thing about Dublin–settling down in a pub to a freshly poured pint of Guinness. A great beverage anywhere, and maybe its mind over matter, but it does taste better the closer to St. James’ Gate you get.

    I trust that the match will be forever known for its high caliber of play, that everyone’s anthems is treated with respect, and that more than a few Irish and English supporters buy one another drinks afterward.

  34. >>I trust that the match will be forever known for its high caliber of play, that everyone’s anthems is treated with respect, and that more than a few Irish and English supporters buy one another drinks afterward.<<

    Nominations for the ATW annual Peace award are open…with The Phantom topping the early polls 🙂

    Sound words indeed.

  35. A McCann, the premise of your topic for discussion reveals exactly the type of person you are. As an ex-rugby player and on-going supporter of the great game, and considering the history of Croke park, I think the magnanimity of the GAA to allow such a great occasion speaks volumes about how Anglo-Irish relations have improved. Instead of seeing this, you are searching for a way to be offended. I suspect that the ‘English’ national anthem will be shown the required respect when its played. What then? Will you take offence because the pitch is green? Incidently, I don’t think that Martin Johnson and the English team meant to offend, though they were being quite rude. That team was simply very focused on winning and I think they were just starting the psychological game at that point (Ireland had denied them a Grand Slam the year before). They went on to win a world cup, which I was delighted to see them do. Of course, Ireland have returned the compliment by beating them every year since, and more than likely will beat them again on Saturday. Amongst the Rugby fraternity I think the issue was forgotten very quickly.

    Glasgow iain

  36. iain,

    I agree, the incident was forgotten pretty quickly, it will always be brought up from time to time, but its not like its held against them.

    You point regarding croke park was very true. The fact that the game is even taking place shows the maturity in the Anglo-Irish relationship.

    Its a day of great rugby. The six nations, and in particular, Ireland v England is the highlight of the rugby calendar for me every year. Its such a force for good on these islands and is brilliant entertainment.

    Its not the time for politics.

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