56 2 mins 15 yrs

rudy.bmpThe UK MSM wants John McCain as the GOP Presidential candidate next year. Of course they would prefer it if a Democrat wins the race for the White House – Hillary or Obama will do nicely –but McCain is their fall-back candidate. Why? Because he is on the far-liberal side of the Republican Party.

So imagine their consternation at the news that Rudy Giuliani, the former Mayor of New York, is opening a lead of up to 20 per cent over his declared rivals among likely Republican primary voters.

Naturally the UK MSM choose to portray this as "causing consternation on the right " of the GOP – pretending that "Right-wing"supporters are shocked  – yes, shocked -that the more socially liberal Giuliani is doing so well. Rubbish. It’s the UK MSM which is shocked.

If issues like gay-marriage and abortion were the primary issues facing the US then they might have a point – but we are AT WAR with militant Islam and we need a President who is very clear on THIS central point and who can show REAL LEADERSHIP on the issue. I believe this is Rudy’s BIG strength – it is why I shall support him – and it is why I believe he can win the White House next year. We need a leader – not a follower of shallow defeatist MSM liberal values.

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  1. David, I would probably vote for Giuliani over McCain, but I think you’re way off on McCain. McCain is to the right of Giuliani and very much a war hawk.

    I think that you’re probably right that Rudy has more of that almost indefinable leadership quality than McCain has, but I wouldn’t denigrate McCain.

  2. Eagle,

    McCain is a contradiction in many ways. He is indeed very hawkish in some areas, but he will be extremely tainted amongst the GOP base by his ‘Guest Worker program’ (which Guiliani supports but didnt initiate). McCain still supports the US presence in Iraq, but Guiliani is quite clear that he feels that whatever is necessary should be done to ‘win’. The problem for McCain is that there are only a small handful of ‘Right’ issues on which he has more credibility than Giuliani, and that GOP pragmatists know its Giuliani’s liberal attitudes on those certain issues that may sway voters over from the Democrats.

    Dick Morris has an article up in Newsmax about how McCain ‘peaked’ far too early, and I tend to agree.

    Me, I’d be voting for Tom Tancredo given the chance, but thats because if I was an American I would put Immigration at the top of the issues even above the War on Terror. That’s the perspective of a Brit who is sitting in misery at the end of the same tunnel the Americans are happily accelerating down talking of course…

  3. The important thing for me is mutual influence with the UK and the rest of Europe – the West.

    Since Cameron will be PM i think Giuliani and he could work together pretty well and possibly undo the enormous damage done under Bush and Blair who seemed leagues apart on all but one issue.

    The malign approach of the press towards Bush b/c of this was Blairs undoing – whatvere i thought of him locally we have huge international issues up ahead that need challenge – the more liberal Cameron and the more liberal Rudy would find it easier to keep the UK US relationship strong and make a better case.

    I think Giuliani did a great job on New York which was a massive undertaking. I do think the US is too blase with immigration and associated issues which id hope he did focus on as it would be great if english was still the first language there in 50 years time. Course i have similar concerns about Cameron.

  4. From the Washington Post story:

    "The principal reason was a shift among white evangelical Protestants, who now clearly favor Giuliani over McCain. Giuliani is doing well among this group of Americans despite his support of abortion rights and gay rights, two issues of great importance to religious conservatives. McCain opposes abortion rights."

    This is truly amazing and if maintained will propel Giuliani to the Republican nomination. I believe he could defeat any Democrat candidate, but a lot will depend on how Iraq looks in November 2008.

  5. Peter,

    Fascinating changes – aren’t they? I’ve been going on about Rudy for a while now so I’m glad he’s on a role.


    Yip – I agre about the border issue – but I guess it is a little bit further down the perceived league od priorities. Bush has been almost criminally negligent on this important issue.

  6. Holy Crap. McCain a far-liberal? You are joking.

    As a native New Yorker I can say Giuliani was necessary mayor whose self-confidence (bordering at times on megalomania) cleaned up New York City and restored common sense to civic government there. He had much of his success due to the fact that he owed the established political order nothing. It worked on a municipal level, a national level is something else.

    His actions on 9/11 and in the aftermath were terrific and almost without a single mistep. In part, American affection towards him then resulted from a lack of leadership at the national level. He said and did the right things.

    But he has a long road ahead of him in the primaries, let alone the national election. He has to step out of the spotlight of 9/11 and in so doing, will have to demonstrate what he proposes in a varierty of areas. I will say that it will be interesting as he is a loose cannon with a hair-trigger temper.

  7. To solve a mystery for the non-Americans, Rudy’s buddy in that photo is New York Yankees (baseball) manager Joe Torre.

  8. Oops I mean Rudy. There, there Colm I am sure you did!

    I support Ridy oops Rudy all the way, leadership qualities are rare and should be nurtured and kept, hope the American people still recognise this after the time has elapsed since 9/11.

    Envy them, wish we had a leader somewhere in the background with star qualities. (We have only had a couple in the last century one with, and one without!)

  9. Maggie – ive never enved american politics hung up on side-issues like abortion tho’. Bleugh. Sarkozy still doing ok in the polls in France? He looked good on France24 last night. Theres another one with charisma.

  10. Maggie: No one can discrdit the man for what he did in NYC (or no one with the facts). However, leadership of a City is different than leadership of the nation which might require a more even temperment than Giuliani has. He has two years and for Rudy that is a lot of time.

  11. I’m a Romney supporter. He’s a gentleman, the real deal, which is why the MSM is all over him about Mormonism (a non-starter). Very competent.

    Rudy’s great and a true leader. People just want to follow him. I’ll be voting for him if Romney doesn’t make it.

    I think McCain is a war hero, but an incompetent legislator. He triangulates too much, and seems to always go towards the trend, which is terrible in a leader. He’s pro-amnesty with Kennedy, he put together the Gang of 14 with the Democrats which watered down the Republicans power when they had the majority, and he co-wrote McCain-Feingold which – instead of stopping campaign funding abuse – took it to a new and less transparent level which is disastorous and enables George Soros among others to have undue influence.

  12. Notme: I think Romeny’s "Mormon problem" comes not from the MSM but from evangelicals who are deeply suspicious of that faith. He also seems to be backtracking too quickly on fundamental issues to be worthy. He may be a gentleman (ironically he is the only one of the three candidates who has had one wife) but I don’t know how far he’ll go.

    I agree with you on McCain as a war hero but poor legislator.

  13. His Mormon "problem" comes from some evangelicals and is being blown out of proportion by the MSM. I think most Americans are "live and let live" regarding religion (as long as they’re not beheaded or forced to convert at gunpoint). But the MSM is fixated on evangelicals because of Bush.

  14. The evangelicals believe what they believe but they do not necessarily insist that everybody else believes what they believe. And I think that is what matters to the political evangelicals.They are fighting the political activism of the ACLU and others, not trying to convert Americans to their faith. They do not want the liberals to legislate gay marriage;they want to overturn roe v wade; they are against embryonic stem cell research etc.

    Mormons are extremely close in social values to the evangelicals. And therefore, the political activism of the "liberals" (for lack of better word) will not get much traction with him as President and the evangelicals, and the MSM know this.

  15. Notme: The Mormon faith is viewed as a cult by evangelicals, and a deep doctrinal issue exists. A 1999 Gallup poll indicated that 17% of Americans said they would not consider a Mormon (compare that with 6% for Jews and 4% for Catholics).

    And those are what people admit, polls asking about prejudice tend not to capture the full extent.

    Mormons do share some social values with evangelicals but don’t rule out the doctrinal issues which are profound.

  16. I cant see Romney staying the course. He has flip-flopped too many times on those key GOP issues and (to its credit) unlike British Politics, US politics tends to punish those who try to be all things to all men depending on their audience at the time. Frankly I wouldnt vote for him on the basis that he has repudiated his old liberal views because I simply wouldnt trust him not to turn around and go back to them later.

    I think GOP voters in the Primaries will be genuinely balancing their own issue priorities and the question ‘who can beat the Democrats’ far more this time than they have for a very long time. And that may well be what takes Giuliani past the finishing post.

  17. I like Rudy alot. I will never forget what a good leader he proved to be during and after 9/11. Rudy understands that we are war and WHO we are fighting. Rudy also has a spine, I love that he refused that money from the Saudis.

    I don’t like his position on gun control and immigration. I could really care less about his position on abortion and gay marriage.

  18. Monica: Good memory. The take your check and shove it moment was a delight. So was his tossing Arafat out of a City-owned property. The two areas you are concerned about (guns and immigration) are two areas he’ll likely downplay his prior position, or at least embrace the mainstream Republican consensus. Oddly enough, that might do it among the Republican primary voters, especially if he doesn’t make a pro-choice litmus test for judges.

    On his third wife, he can hardly defend the "sanctity" of marriage to oppose gay marriage, and I doubt he would (to his credit).

  19. That was another good moment, Mahons.

    It’s a long time until the primary. So far Rudy is out front for me. If Newt runs – I’ll have to change my mind. lol

    We could definitely do a lot worse than Rudy. We could do better too, though.

  20. Monica: Newt is facing off against Mario Cuomo in a debate today. I think it might be on line (Irish Eagle had the site – ATW links him). Maybe old Newt will sound the call to arms for you.

    It is a long time until the primary indeed. I wonder if the whole process just hasn’t turned off the best of what we could have to offer from both camps.

  21. Newt is a the most intellectual of all the potential Republican candidates. He’s a real political thinker. But, he’s an ex-legislator. I have a natural inclination towards those who have executive experience.

    I think that’s a real weakness for the two main Democrats. Bill Clinton had been a governor (even if he was in charge of a corner drug store looking to run Wal-mart). Neither Hillary or Obama has that experience.

  22. Eagle: Newt is the more intellectual of that crowd (like being the tallest building in North Dakota) but he is far more toxic and has an even greater ability to self-destruct than Rudy.
    With a name like Newt he should have played baseball.

  23. Thank you Eagle. Newt is always a pleasure to listen to. Even if you all think you might hate him – give him a listen.

    I doubt that Newt could win. What I know for certain is that Newt will keep the debate where it should be for the conservatives. It would be very interesting.

  24. Monica: Sticking a child with a name like Newt indeed borders on child abuse. A Boy Named Sue laughs at him.

  25. Mahons: boy named sue comment! LOL!

    What percentage of Republican voters identify themselves as evangelicals- Do you happen to know? That will make a difference in the race.

    I like Newt alot. Many Republican pundits say that he "can’t win," though. Wouldn’t mind knowing the details about why people think this.

  26. ***"Newt is the more intellectual of that crowd (like being the tallest building in North Dakota)"***

    I don’t think that’s what he was saying, Colm. There aren’t many tall buildings in N. Dakota. I believe that Mahons was trying to say that Newt’s stunted intellect is better than what he’s up against. That’s not saying much, for Mahons. Perhaps Mahons can clear that up for us.

    As for Newt’s electability – the press HATES Newt. The leftists cannot stand him. They crucified the man last time he was in the spotlight.

    If the press loves you (witness Obama or even Keith Ellison:AKA some nation of islam name) nothing you can do is wrong.

  27. NotMe – much ado about the evangelicals. I don’t know what percentage of Republicans would identify themselves as evangelicals. I personally don’t put much stock in the media raving about the evangelical vote. They tried doing that with the Catholics a couple of years ago. They were wrong then, of course.

    The Republican party is very diverse.

    There are plenty of Republicans, like me, who – although they personally feel strongly about marriage and abortion – don’t make that the deciding point on any candidate.

    Just my opinion, though.

  28. Its an interesting question isnt it. I found this old but interesting article:


    "Broadly defined, evangelicals are Christians who have had a personal or "born-again" religious conversion, believe the Bible is the word of God, and believe in spreading their faith. (The term comes from Greek; to "evangelize" means to preach the gospel.) The term is typically applied to Protestants.

    Millions of Americans fit the definition, although estimates vary on exactly how many. Forty-two percent of Americans described themselves as evangelical Christians in a Gallup poll in April, while 22 percent said they met all three measures in a Gallup survey in May. The National Association of Evangelicals says about 25 percent of adult Americans are evangelicals. Larry Eskridge, associate director of the Institute for the Study of American Evangelicals at Wheaton College, puts the figure about 33 percent."

    Really that high?

  29. Monica – The North Dakota crack was a small joke. Old Newt has a PhD in History from Tulane University where I spent three years trying to drink New Orleans dry. He’s educated, but intellectual? I am not so sure about that.

    It is true Newt is to leftists what Hillary is to righists – toxic.

    Incidently and off point, the two of them have love lives that would be rejected by Soap Opera writers as too unreal to be believed. Newt’s hijinks are funnier because of his anti-Clinton posturing.

  30. Notme: A large number of organized Republican Primary voters identify themselves in certain key states as Evangelicals. I don’t know the percentages. But the name embraces quite a wide range of folks who have a wide range of ideas. Their organiztions make them as valuable and at times as burdensome to the Republicans as the labor unions can be to the Democrats.

  31. Have great respect for McCain, but Rudy is absolutely my first choice also.

    London, where will soon be having a pint at the Magpie

  32. Phantom,

    Congratulations on being able to post a comment on ATW from the field. Will you be meeting up with other ATW regulars at the bar [pub] so you can do a conference call-in to Tangled Talk Radio?

  33. Newt is a frigging genius, Mahons. Very well spoken, too.

    The fact that he might not say what the so-called ‘intelligensia’ like to hear does not take away from his intelligence one whit.

  34. Monica – You mean he isn’t clean and articulate? Please, that many wives can’t be wrong.

  35. mahons

    You pipped me to the post. I was just about to pose the same question to Monica .

  36. Colm: I am starting to think Troll may have some competition for the affections of the Belle of Philadelphia in the person of one Newt Gingrich.

  37. I know, Monica must have realised your North Dakota comment was just a light dig at the quality of the Republican field in general, yet she displayed no tolerance of any criticism of her pin up hero.

  38. Colm: I know. She’s got her eye on Newt (as opposed to eye of newt). I’ll have to be more careful.

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