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Muslim Family Values

By ATWadmin On May 14th, 2007

Yesterday, following on from his ridiculous visit to an "inner-city" Muslim family, David Cameron penned an equally ridiculous piece for The Observer, extolling the virtues of Muslim/Asian (he uses the terms interchangeably) family values:

Asian families and communities are incredibly strong and cohesive, and have a sense of civic responsibility which puts the rest of us to shame. Not for the first time, I found myself thinking that it is mainstream Britain which needs to integrate more with the British Asian way of life, not the other way around.

Today, we see an example of just what Muslim/Asian family values often are. A pregnant 17 year old Muslim woman in Manchester was brutally murdered last Friday. Now, her husband has been arrested in connection with the murder. The words "honour killing" hang heavy in the air.

This was not an isolated incident. It was recently estimated that an "honour killing" occurs once a month in the UK. And then there’s the forced marriages, not to mention plain old wife-beating.

Muslim family values: you just can’t beat ’em.

But you can beat your wife. 

38 Responses to “Muslim Family Values”

  1. Just curious, how many spouses are murdered per month among the non-Muslim population?

  2. Oh dear, a good opportunity to rightfully mock Cameron’s rosey eyed patronising of British Asians is ruined by equally idiotic stereotyping of ‘murderous’ Muslim family values.

  3. Apparently, 7 women and 2.5 men. So 90% of such murders are carried out by non-Muslims. Muslims make up about 2.5-3% of the total population, so they are clearly over-represented in such cases. Plus, I’m assuming that every domestic violence death that occurs outside of the 12 annual honour killings is carried out by a non-Muslim, which may very well not be the case.

    In any event, given that Muslim families are, according to Cameron, a model to aspire to, the rates of domestic violence in their communities should be lower, not higher than in the general community.

  4. Read that article yesterday and about gagged. What an ass kissing piece of idiocy. Cameron’s a first class pandering troglodyte who probably doesn’t have the faintest idea of how completely clueless he appeared with his remarks.

    He ought to fit in perfectly the current crop of fearless (read: bent over) world leaders.

  5. FR – if Honour killings – which are cultural rather than religious – condemn all of Islam, should we not despise Chritianity for the child abuse so commonly committed by both protestant and RC Clergy ?

  6. Mr. Fulham – hard to go from the stats right into your conclusions. In any event while we all (I hope) deplore the so-called honor killings, they don’t seem to be repreentative of that particular community.

  7. Mad makes a good point that they are cultural rather than religious.

  8. I read somewhere that until recently Honour Killings used to be common in Greece.

  9. Oh good so they are cultural rather than religious. Woopee glad we got that sorted out.

  10. They were common in Italy too. So what? It comes down to patriachal societies. And you dont get more patriachal than islamic societies. Question is whats to be done to protect them? Or are these women to be discussed on the basis that noones quite sure how to classify it.

  11. Maggie – the point is that they issue really isn’t some general depravity that anyone who follows Islam shares as alleged by Mr. Fulham, but rather the still dangerous circumstances that women are exposed to because of cultural beliefs.

    Alison – Serious enforcement of the law coupled with increased awareness of the issue. My toddler nephew fell off a swing and broke his arm. The hosptial staff were vigorous in their questioning of my sister and her husband of the circumstances. Rather than take any offense, they were gratified to know that the staff took an active interest in the possibility of abuse rather than assuming all was well.

  12. Mahons

    I understand what you are saying, but awareness of the issue will vary from place to place. Using your example – my son split his lip open on a see-saw when he was about seven. It looked like someone had punched him solidly in the mouth and he needed stitches. Not one nurse or doctor questioned my account of the event.

    So a big difference in the medical staff that treated your nephew and the ones who treated my son. Was it a lack of awareness or just exhaustion? Was it just that I didn’t look like I would punch a child? I don’t know.

    I think it will be difficult to ensure that the awareness is widespread and any measures implemented fully.

  13. It beggars belief ‘honour’ killings are happening in the UK – we have enough of our own ‘home grown’ problems re abuse of women and children without importing this evil aspect of someone else’s culture or religion. Let’s hope they catch the bastards and bang them up for a long long time. She was just 17 for god’s sake and pregnant.

  14. The other difficulty will come about because people will shout you down as a racist if you throw a spotlight on this issue. I think thats partly why governments are so slow to get any form of protection, awareness or criticism of this crime. It cant be treated as a case of battery because of the social stigmas that come within the culture. I do think there is a serious question in our relationship with countries like Pakistan, where we have this relationship that allows young men here to constantly marry OUT. So you get young women coming in who might not a) speak english b) be aware of their rights and c) hugely unlikely to be willing to speak out. Plus it creates a never ending circle of suffering when you constantly take a step forward and then two steps back. The whole issue of forced AND arranged marriages needs addressing.

  15. Fiona -a good point, there are always degrees of competence. I am not proposing a solution to a problem that I sadly suspect we’ll always have, just offering suggestions for reducing it.

    Maggie – I agree with you that a heartbreaking crime such as this gives us grounds to question certain conceits (that we can assimilate everyone). I’d also hope that some of those who come running when they see discrimination would have the decency to speak out against this barbaric practice. But it isn’t grounds to paint all Muslims with the same brush.

  16. Mahons: ‘offering suggestions for reducing it’.
    Its good that you are thinking about it though.

    Later maybe Adrian could chime in. ha ha.

  17. <She was just 17 for god’s sake and pregnant.>

    Abortion, muslim style.

  18. Alison: Adrian is in deep R.E.M. at this time, dreaming of the Bollywood version of The Bells of St. Mary’s.

  19. Mahons, don’t be so coy. He’s dreaming of doing unmentionable things with Shilpa Shetty, then he’ll rush off to confession in the morning and then tomorrow night he’ll be dreaming of doing ……

  20. LOL Mahons.

    I asked him about Shilpa he doesnt know who she is. A LIKELY STORY!

    Im sure he will have all the answers to this issue tomorrow once rested. He has given such a critical analysis of US and British/European hegemony and human rights abuses, he must have thought this through carefully also. I await his considered opinion.

    p.s I have a joke about the UK earthquake shall i stick it on the open thread?

  21. Alison/Colm – I am a Aishwarya Rai man myself. I only know Ms. Shetty through the controversy ATW folks mentioned regarding the Big Brother Show.

    As for Adrian, I often find it interesting that he doesn’t really reference problems in India (but mention them and he goes quite animated) when explaining the problems with The West.

    Alsion – I’ll be looking for that joke.

  22. Alison

    I see you already have without waiting for our permission !

    I have seen that one doing the rounds before – I think it was set in Essex, but it is still very amusing.

  23. So what you’re talking about is a specific group of people who are not assimilating to your cultural norms because of their religious beliefs, which condone ownership and abuse of women and children as an age old cultural perogative. Islam has not been altered or reformed since it’s inception, to expect people immigrating from poverty stricken, widely illiterate, fundamentalist muslim society to conform to western secularism is absurd.

    Abuse is an age old worldwide problem that every society seems to suffer from, the muslims certainly don’t have a corner on the wife beating market, but the fact of honour killings, arranged marriages, sexual consent ages of 9 or 10, polygamy, pederasty, burkhas, cloisters, etc. point up very sharp differences in our views of patriarchy, secularism and human rights and many muslims traditional way of life, which they strenuously defend as their cultural and religious rights within western countries.

    Islamic ideology is not compatable with the western society.

  24. Alison –

    Blair’s government backed away from outlawing forced marriages. The focus groups said no.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4799728.stm

    Leadership!

  25. Daphne, I agree with you, so does Ayatollah Khomeini…

    From Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, fourth edition and Tahrir-ol-Masael:

    "A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed.
    A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man’s four permanent wives. he is also not permitted to marry the girl’s sister"

    Another of his gems:

    "If a child dies within the mother’s womb and it is a danger to her life to leave it there, it must be extracted in the easiest way possible; it can, if need be, be cut into pieces, this should be done by the woman’s husband or midwife."

    There is no way this kind of belief can ever assimilate into any culture.

  26. Pete – yes, but thats down to Reid isnt it unless the powers of state suddenly change. I agree with you it is disgusting. On the other hand the government shouldnt interfere with marriage is what they are saying: They said forced marriages could still take place as a result, but away from the public eye.

    Unless its gay marriages of course.

    Its a mess.

  27. Alison

    Blair has centralised control around himself. No Home Secretary could act in any way against Blair’s wishes. It doesn’t appear a mess to me: the government announced its intentions to legislate against forced marriages, enough muslim men protested, the government counted the votes and thousands of vulnerable women were abandoned.

    It’s yet another black mark against a genuinely bad man and the most dreadful Prime Minister in British history.

  28. In which case the rise of British muslim fundamentalism is the fault of John Major – the worst PM in history and a Tory to boot. Way to go.

  29. In which case? In which case what? How do you go from Blair’s cowardice in the face of muslim misogyny straight to the rise of fundamentalism under Major? What’s the relevance?

  30. Because its pointless chalking all our ills up to Blair. I just dont get where you are coming from chalking this up to Blair who is patently NOT the worst PM in British history.

  31. Alison

    Its hardly pointless. At 10.02pm you said: "The whole issue of forced AND arranged marriages needs addressing."

    The government, under a man you so admire, made a tentative attempt at addressing it and backed off when it saw a load of muslim votes disappearing. You can’t pass it off to Reid or some other Blair dupe. This government made a cowardly and spineless decision to abandon thousands of women to forced aggression. Many women will live in misery in future because of Blair’s self-interest. Some will be beaten, raped or even murdered because this wicked Prime Minister put votes ahead of doing what is right. Excuse Blair if you like, but you’re only kidding yourself.

  32. Im not excusing Blair on this issue at all. I said im not chalking this *all* up to him and writing him off on single issues as so many people do on each and every occasion.

    An example of what i mean is, if we are taking single issue politics and chalking them all up to the PM then its worth considering that Omar Bakri was given citizenship under John Major. Hizb ut-Tahrir founded in 1986 in the UK – under Major, they arrested Bakri for threats against the then PM – John Major – in 1991, released him, turned a blind eye, and Major gave him permanent residency in 1993.

    Im just not kidding myself that each and every givernment to date isnt in some way up their necks in as much of this rubbish or similar rubbish. Ive criticised this government and Blair enough times on my own blog to know where i stand generally on the matter, what i admire and what i dont.

  33. And it turns out Blair didnt walk away from this.

    Ive just googled this issue and found out that Blair stepped in to this issue in March this year. I thought the issue had been quietly dropped as per the last BBC links i read. Mainly on the grounds that it would mean women were forced to prosecute their parents and it would be driven underground.

    ‘We listened to what people were saying,’ Blair said. ‘I was told we were in the wrong place on this, that the bill should be supported and that we should think again. I reflected and realised that, if you approach the problem through civil law, it’s very sensible. It [forced marriage] is a terrible thing.’

    "Tony Blair is to back moves to make forced marriages illegal. The move, a U-turn in government policy, will ensure the introduction of a new law enshrining powerful rights for victims, many of them under age, who have been compelled to marry against their will.
    The Prime Minister’s change of heart, revealed in an exclusive interview with The Observer, means that legislation introduced in the Lords by the Liberal Democratic peer, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, will obtain the government backing it has previously been denied"

  34. Pete – im tired, im off to bed. Goodnight.

  35. Alison,
    I first heard of Shilpa Shetty on ATW. I think when the "racism" incident took place.

    I don’t have much general knowledge about India. Only about history, politics, wildlife and the 1987 cricket team.

    Colm,
    Last night I dreamt that you were doing unmentionable things to Shilpa Shetty. And this morning I’m waiting to hear your confession.

  36. Sorry Alison – religion and politics as well.

    I have watched only five Indian-made movies in my life and don’t know anyone from Bollywood except those who’re in the papers for some reason or the other like Sanjay Dutt etc.

    You must understand that Bollywood isn’t usually the favoured topic of conversation in the circles I frequent.

  37. Adrian, you must get out of the monastary more.

    How are things with you, my favorite anti-american friend?

    For some reason I’m reminded about Jesus being tempted by Satan. What does America have to throw down at your feet before you will bow down and worsip us? 😉

  38. Charles,
    I’m still waiting for your Mission Sunday collection to reach me! I’ve got to buy myself some humility, remember!

    Hmm if you want to follow the Bible you’ll surely have to stop messing around in ancient Babylon, won’t you?