49 3 mins 14 yrs

But all jihadists are Muslim. And a disturbing number of them are British Muslims.
 
British-based Muslims have carried out  international terrorist operations in 15 countries.

Daniel Pipes in his January debate with Ken Livingstone points out that London provides an environment where terrorism is harbored, protected and nurtured.  He says,  “Britain has become a threat to the world.”   (The debate is on YouTube here.)

Christopher Hitchens agreeD with Pipes in this  article for Vanity Fair.  He  writes:

“Overnight guests at his (Abu Hamza al-Masri, the imam of the Finsbury Park Mosque) mosque’s sleeping quarters have included Richard Reid, the man in whose honor we now all have to take off our shoes at the airport, and Zacarias Moussaoui, the missing team member of September 11, 2001. Other visitors included Ahmed Ressam, arrested for trying to blow up LAX for the millennium, and Nizar Trabelsi, a Tunisian who planned to don an explosive vest and penetrate the American Embassy in Paris. On July 7, 2005 ("7/7," as the British call it), a clutch of bombs exploded in London’s transport system. It emerged that one of the suicide murderers had been influenced by the preachings of Abu Hamza, as had two of those attempting to replicate the mission two weeks later.

In fact, the British jihadist is becoming quite a feature on the international scene. In 1998, six British citizens of Pakistani and North African descent along with two other British residents were arrested by the government of Yemen and convicted of planning to kidnap a group of tourists and attack British targets in the port of Aden (scene of the near-sinking of the U.S.S. Cole two years later). One of the youths was the son of the tireless Abu Hamza, and another was his stepson. In December 2001, Richard Reid made his bid on the Paris–Miami flight. By then, two or three Britons had been killed in Afghanistan—fighting on the side of the Taliban. The following year came the video butchering of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, whose abduction and murder were organized by another Briton—a former student at the London School of Economics—named Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh. And the year after that, two British-passport holders, Asif Mohammed Hanif and Omar Khan Sharif, took part in a suicide attack on Mike’s Place, a Tel Aviv bar.

 

Clearly, “multiculturalism” doesn’t work.

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49 thoughts on “Most Muslims Are Not JIhadists

  1. Patty

    Can we get some commentary on the US problems?

    The recent terror trial in the UK involved a key terrorist who was a US citizen who turned to terror on 9/11. And the Dispatches report revealed that a key hate preaching imam, in fact THE hate preacher was an American citizen.

    We hear so much from US blogs about the UK. When will we start to hear some introspective commentary?

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=1629cfc5-c073-4747-bcef-0e6b0e0c4b44&&Headline=US+faces+threat+from+terror+'next+door

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1789200.ece

    Plus the most recent case of course, re attacking US troops on the mainland by illegal immigrants in the US.

    http://www.theherald.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1384059.mostviewed.six_are_accused_of_planning_to_massacre_american_soldiers.php

    "In January last year, a shopkeeper alerted the FBI about a "disturbing" video he had been asked to copy on to a DVD"

    Is that limited? Are your mosques in trouble? Do you have problems with wahhibi islam?

    As illustrated by your post the discussion is very much on in the UK and our media have been underciver to their credit. Their are countless arguments, editorials finally. The problem has been going on for years in this country and not just under Blairs government as people are wont to suggest. Ignored by the media as much as by Downing Street.

    In all the hysteria about British mulsims which seems to be giving them more and more of an elevated cyber celebrity status of late, will we ever get to learn of the issues in the US?

  2. Patty –

    It’s coming youw way too:

    SPRINGTIME IN ISLAMBERG
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/paul-williams051107.htm

    Now, If I were a spineless liberal I’d come over all’offended’ at savages being described as ‘British’. God decides who is British, not the Home Office. Richard Reid aside, we are talking about imported savages or first generation filth, and a dog born in a barn isn’t a thoroughbred.

  3. Alison,

    If you spent as much time worrying about, and solving UK problems, as you do when attempting to make comparisons with America at every turn or criticism of the UK. You may actually make a difference.

    Of course they have their homegrown problems, (‘issues’ you called them), only a fool would assume otherwise! I am sure they will eventually solve their problems, and probably in a very different fashion to us in the UK.

    "We hear so much from US blogs about the UK. When will we start to hear some introspective commentary?"

    Re mention of the UK on US blogs, – that could be said equally of UK blogs, passing judgement on the US. On the introspective front, many US blogs are highly critical of the US. Read a few, and you will ‘get to learn of the issues in the US’

    Pointing the finger at others will do nothing to solve our own problems.

    Surely it would be better for all to get our own house in order first. After all, are we not seen as Leaders or progressive thinkers on the world stage? – well, maybe not lately, but are we incapable of finding an answer?

    After all, as you so rightly point out, ‘The problem has been going on for years in this country’, – dating back to the days of the IRA, no less. Makes one wonder if there really is a will to find an answer, doesn’t it?

  4. Ernest – please read my own blog and then try and make that suggestion again. Chump

  5. ‘The problem has been going on for years in this country’, – dating back to the days of the IRA, no less. Makes one wonder if there really is a will to find an answer, doesn’t it?

    Or makes me wonder if our security services hadnt been tied up with Omagh and Irish terrorism then perhaps they would have been focused on something else? The French security services had been warning them about all through the 90s according to the Times resports on our unique failings. Yes it does make me wonder. But then terrorism became an issue for the blameless USA on 9/11. Around about the time funding for the IRA dried up – freeing up our security services Ernest.

    Oops – is that anti americanism?

  6. First link isn’t complete, MR (copy it in sections)

    But the story of that Norwegian woman is truly bizarre!
    I wonder how that 31-yr-old could justify damages from that incident.

  7. women have been found guilty of rape in several countries – and not just statutory rape where they had consensual sex with a minor.

    news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/16/newsid_2521000/2521053.stm

  8. I wonder how the victim is cross examined. That would be useful to see, does anyone know?

  9. Questions for Ernest:

    Is this anti-americanism?

    "What is it about George Bush that Yanks find so great? I’m talking about why they voted for him, the people. What is wrong with them?"

    "The US deserved 9/11 they asked for it"

    "Can someone help me understand why both the American public are such incredible suck ups to Israel?"

    "Does George Bush speak English?just wondering"

    "The Americans themselves are directly responsible for a great deal of the ongoing conflict in the middle east"

    "The Bush family are just a bunch of inbred redneck assholes"

  10. The fact that Islamic terrorism is a real threat and that we will be dealing with it for generations doesn’t mean what the author of the post wishes to imply, that Muslims are all terrorists.

  11. Patty

    Re the importance of not marginalising all muslims and promoting other voices rather than focusing on the heat in an issue – plus addressing a point i was trying to make before Ernest accused me of being anti-american, i found this:

    "Most of the American media has done a lousy job of critically covering Muslim organizations in this country, of asking serious questions about what their leaders believe and where they get their funding.

    Groups like CAIR and the Islamic Society of North America are quick to shriek "Islamophobia!" when a journalist points out their connections to radical Islam or asks straightforward questions about what they believe. The idea is to squelch a legitimate and necessary public discussion"

    http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/181137.html

    My feeling is that we have turned the discussion around in the UK from a non discussion to a full one and it is HOW we now handle it that is importamt. Important in terms of media and government. But
    we really do need to generate light not heat.

    And suggesting all are terrorists wont help or that the UK is teaming with them only adds more muscle to their PR campaign. We dont need the blogopshere for this. All this you post on is almost old hat in terms of what we know. Its HOW we handle it now, what the arguments are, the likes of Cameron and how he is arguing it all.

    There is another piece on 70 or so muslims walking out of work in Nebraska because they cannot pray 5 times a day.

    http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_5904327

  12. Alison: did I say the US is blameless, close to blameless, even the slightest bit "blameless?" This is not about the UK v US, or v the World or v anything other than civilization v barbarism. We are in this together.

    I originally started this post with a qualifier (don’t think I’m blaming the UK only etc) but I took it out. I didn’t think it was necessary, and I thought it took us off-track.

    I guess it was necessary.

    The fact is many of the Muslim jihadist are home-grown in Britain. I feel it’s due to multiculturalism Needs to be discussed…no?

    The faults and the sins of America are discussed everywhere, often – ad nauseum. And correct me if I’m wrong but the media in Britain has blamed much of the terrorism on America’s Iraq war.

    This post is an attempt to source the terrorism elsewhere. Why? Because we have to fight terrorism, and like any disease it is important that the diagnosis and cause be determined before it can be eradicated.

    I wish Britain, in unison, would stand up and say "the British Empire was the greatest idea anybody ever had – look at how better off the world is because of her, look at how prosperous her former colonies are today."

    And then – -in this dream – the Bristish people would say: "We are still British with all that that stands for , in particular law and order, God and country , and we will hunt down and imprison anybody who dares to plot against her as this is treasonous."

    That’s what this post is about.

    The American involvement with the poisonous Saudi Royal family members who are funding the Wahhabi terrorist efforts, the American inability to deal effectively with Iran for over 30 years, the American inability to deal with homegrown jihadists which are mirroring the efforts of their British compadres, jihadist in American prisons – this is subject for a different post.

  13. Mahons: "Muslims are all terrorists."

    What I am saying is:

    1.) all jihadists are muslims.
    2.) a disturbing number of them are British home-grown.

    I agree with Pipes that most Muslims are not jihadists, and that non-Muslims need to work with moderate Muslims so that they are empowered and not sucked into the radical movement.

    Multiculturalism empowers the radicals at the expense of the moderate.

    Maybe this is all old hat. But I don’t think so.

  14. Noel: "Yeah, and all rapists are men"

    I’ve never heard of a woman rapist, although I’m sure it happens.

    And yes, all jihadists are Muslim. Ever heard of a kufar waging jihad?

  15. Pete Moore: "a dog born in a barn isn’t a thoroughbred."

    That’s a keeper! 🙂

  16. Its not that the issue is old hat its that it is being covered and discussed and arguments fly around trying to establish the next steps. So much so now that countless reams of msm space is dedicated to it now. If you look at newsnow or newshound there is a whole section dedicated to British Muslims.

    In other words there is plenty of heat but not enough light.

    The multi culturalism argument has been going on for 2 years now. New Labour ditched an age age age old issue shaped, to be fair, by decades of governments – and noones sure what to do next. How to unpick it all.

    You seem to have multi culti issues developing at home. eg 70 muslims walk out of work and refuse to continue because they cant pray.

    Are the issues that happen in the US not a concern at all?

    What I dont understand is how it is that American bloggers consistently point this out by examining the UK but then seem to be happily trotting down the same path back home. Whats the point in all this really?

  17. Alison: "Are the issues that happen in the US not a concern at all?

    What I dont understand is how it is that American bloggers consistently point this out by examining the UK but then seem to be happily trotting down the same path back home. Whats the point in all this really?"

    You really are off the mark here. The issues in the US are of huge concern and are discussed everywhere. The US tends to be, actually, extremely self-absorbed. We think it all starts and stops with us. Discussing Britain is the exception.

    The point is to fight barbarism. It’s about political consensus around certain ideas. If there is no public will to go in a certain directionm, then politicians do not go in that direction. Currently, Livingstone is still very supportive of multiculturalism And in the US, there are those – especially in academia – who feel the same.

    Multiculturalism needs to be openly discussed and criticized. Over and over and over. If we can do away with multiculturalism, and its little brother "political correctness" then we can judge barbarism when we see it, even if it hiding as a religion, and we can condemn it and maybe stop it.

  18. Patty – ill come back to you on your comment in a tic but since Ernest has disappeared I feel obliged to point out that the above anti american remarks were in fact a small selection of comments taken from both LGF posts and comments – and a number of other US blogs in respect of Britain.

    I just changed the words British to Americans and Bush from Royal family, Israel from Palestine etc…

  19. Alison,

    Re your ‘questions for Ernest post;

    Just what is your point? American blogs are just as abusive of Bush et al, there was no need for your ‘alteration of words’ effort to make that point, and there are many UK blogs equally abusive of Bush et al, it’s all part of the repartee of the internet.

    All you are proving is my original comment that you are far too quick to point to America, even when the issue is UK related.

    As far as your blog is concerned, is there not enough juvenilia to read on the internet, without having to read yours, – I’ll take a raincheck!

  20. No Ernest – you know very well that youd be quick to jump all over any of that as anti americanism. Rightly so.

    But your special prism standards stop just there. That was my point.

    Re jihadis: The UK MSM has come a long way in pointing out the problems that have been festering here for decades and the discussions havent disappeared. Im assuming you read the US links above? Those are pretty clear if my points arent.

    That you cant see the rampant anglophobia on a blog that, without a hint of irony frequently accuses the BBC of anti americanism and chalks all the British up as the same, isnt any surprise. But then maybe its something to do with needing glasses at your age that means you cant see beyond the end of your own nose.

  21. Just so long as the British govt and it’s side-kick the BBC, continue to heap praise on Islam, then Jihadists will continue to roll off the UK production line.

    One more serious bomb outrage from a ‘British’ muslim on a Western democracy, and this Island will be declared a ‘no-flight zone’;… with all that entails….

  22. Alison,

    It is your assumption re my defence of the US that is incorrect. I freely admit that much is amiss there, but does that mean I have to accept the same thing when it happens here? We may have many similar problems to the US, but that does not imply that the same solutions will work in both places.

    I rarely criticise the US in the same fashion that I criticise the UK, – but then I a not American. Being English gives me a certain freedom to be as critical, or as rude as I like re the government, the press, the BBC and any other entity that attempts to bemuse people into thinking that all is well, – I know it isn’t, and you know it isn’t, why pussyfoot around trying to rally the troops to a lost cause.

    Travel broadens the mind, and it only on return to the UK that you realize just how badly run the whole shebang really is. Ask any returning holidaymaker, and they will tell you as much, the extent of the damage is even more apparent to returning expats.

    That many of our American friends here are so supportive, is very welcome, but I fear they are ‘whistling in the wind’, certainly as far our present government is concerned.

    In much the same way as the UK deserted much of the Commonwealth, on joining the Common Market, so they will do the same to America.

    Ever heard that saying – French I believe; "Beware perfidious Albion".

    "But then maybe its something to do with needing glasses at your age that means you cant see beyond the end of your own nose.’

    At least I can see the wood for the trees!…

  23. Alison: You focus on whether or not there is anti-Bristish sentiments v. anti-American sentiments – why? what point is it? This is not a football game. This is not about my or your personal allegiances or feelings.

    We live in a global world. And jihad is a global problem. I could care less if you focus on the Bush Administration’s ill advised foray into Iraq, when they should probably have taken on Iran first. But it wasn’t the subject of this post.

    You obviously have an allergic reaction to LGF – but if you take a step back, you will see that Charles Johnson is fighting radical islam. Not Britain. If Britain is often featured in his blog it is because radical islam has been nurtured in Britain. Because of multi culturalism combined with sheer numbers of immigrants.

    Why turn this into a British versus American thing?

  24. I posted a link underlining my attempted point – suggesting your media doesnt do enough to expose this and open up discussion in the US.

    A year ago the rise of blogging was precisely down to the lack of media and political insight into this issue. Along with attacks on the likes of the BBC for being anti american. You say its not a football game, no it isnt – but dont see the point im making about sites like LGF which is precisely that?

    Its not that I have an allergic reaction to it as you think. Its that I care as you do vis a vis the likes of the BBC etc about the way the internet is used. If you take a step back you will see that he is now adding massively to the problem. Its not how often we are featured it is how it is treated and the responses it engenders.

    Look – ive posted above the reasons. When has ATW featured one post on the issues of American jihad? And yet there ARE issues. You talk about multi culti stuff but ignore the link i posted earlier that is precisely that issue – in America. If Britain is such a terrific example of what not to do and blogging is all about opening up that discuission then why is America following suit?

  25. Re the January debate with Ken Livingstone. I went along to the debate and frankly im gobsmacked that such a debate took place – discussing as it did multi culturalism and with Daniel wiping the floor with Ken Livingstone.

    Exactly the sort of thing that is needed and that should be promoted as a success. The success of the event and Pipes argument being heard. Rather than the issue of jihadis which we all know about and hear about day in day out in the MSM. Its preaching to the converted. I think we all know there is an issue. Else why would there be such a high profile debate?

    That is a step in the right direction even if the issue will take years and years to unpick from society. We cant rely on government alone to do this. Id love to know what the US is doing to avoid the problems, from a US perspective how you view these workers walking out, these trials, the witnesses in US trials….Is anything you are doing working at all? Do you think the internet is part of the issue? If i was a jihadi and i read Britain is going down the tubes on every site i came across with everyone nodding in agreement and noone looing at solutions id think – job done!

  26. Alison: Charles Johnson has done a lot of the hard work exposing much of the soft jihad. ( I’ll do a post on one of America’s problems – CAIR – not today though, too much going on.)

    CAIR – America’s favorite pro radical muslim lobby – like Ken LIvingstone and Co. multicultural disease – is doing much to promote the totalitarianism of Sharia – and I don’t think it can be exposed too much. And I really don’t care if they are American or British. Bad is bad.

    I disagree with you that America is not bashed often enough, on this site or on any other. I think America is criticized quite abit.

    I also disagree that everyone agrees about the dangers of multiculturalism. Maybe you know what is going on but I don’t think you can say that everyone else does.

    You suggest that it empowers our enemies to be self-critical.

    Does the work of someone like Melanie Phillips give aid and comfort to radical islamists seeking to install sharia in London. I think open discussion promotes solutions to problems and good public policy.

    Your suggestion that it is somehow wrong to criticize the UK and its approach to islamism seems to me like a form of appeasement.

  27. Ernest: Perfidy = Treachery; and that’s a Racial Slur on the Brits.

    One must be so careful nowadays not to indulge in Racial Stereotyping.

    Smack botty.

  28. Bernard,

    A racial slur, then blame the French, it is one of their more appropriate quotes….

  29. Patty –

    This London debate was an open discussion on ideas such as Melanies and Pipes with a known apologist for Islam. Unthinkable 2 years ago. Are you saying the British arent worried about this? If we arent then why so much msm attention to it? And yes congrats to Melanie and co. So – what next? If they havent convinced any doubters, is the argument working?

    There is a great book called ‘Losing the Battle with Islam’. Some key excerpts, all food for thought. Why we are losing:

    ) Western Incoherence: The first is the extent of political division in the non-Muslim world about what is afoot. Some reject outright that there is a war at all; others agree with the assertion that “the war we fight is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century”. How do we get convergence where the debate has so far failed?

    2) Underestimating the Threat: The second reason why, as things stand, Islam will not be defeated is that the strengths of the world community of Muslims are being underestimated, and the nature of Islam misunderstood. It is neither a “religion of peace” nor a “religion hijacked” or “perverted” by “the few”.

    Islam is not even a religion in the conventional sense of the term. It is a transnational political and ethical movement that believes that it holds the solution to mankind’s problems. It therefore holds that it is in mankind’s own interests to be subdued under Islam’s rule.

    3) Crap Western Leadership: Indeed, the third reason why Islam will not be defeated, as things stand, is the low level of Western leadership, in particular in the United States. During the half-century of the Islamic revival, it has shown itself at sixes and sevens both diplomatically and militarily.

    4) ‘Islamophobes’ & ‘Apologists’: Next is the contribution to the disarray of Western policy-making being made by the egotistical competitiveness, and in some cases hysterics, of “experts” and commentators on Islam. They include hyperventilating Islamophobes as well as academic apologists for the worst that is being done in Islam’s name.

    5) Leftist Guilt: The fifth disablement is to be found in the confusion of “progressives” about the Islamic advance. With their political and moral bearings lost since the defeat of the “socialist project”, many on the Left have only the fag-end of anti-colonial positions on which to take their stand..eg with islamists. Moreover, to Islam’s further advantage, it has led most of today’s “progressives” to say little, or even to keep silent, about what would once have been regarded as the reactionary aspects of Islam: its oppressive hostility to dissent, its maltreatment of women, …. Mein Kampf circulates in Arab countries under the title Jihadi.

    6) Trojan Horses: The sixth reason for Islam’s growing strength is the vicarious satisfaction felt by many non-Muslims at America’s reverses. Those who feel such satisfaction could be regarded as Trojan horses, a cavalry whose number is legion and which is growing..

    7) Moral Poverty: The seventh reason lies in the moral poverty of the West’s, and especially America’s, own value system. Doctrines of market freedom, free choice and competition — or “freedom ’n’ liberty” — are no match for the ethics of Islam and Sharia, like it or not…
    . Indeed they are expressly used as reasons to fight the West

    8) Propaganda: The next indication that Islam’s advance will continue lies in the skilful use being made of the media and of the world wide web in the service and advertising both of the “electronic jihad” and the bamboozling of Western opinion by Muslim spokesmen.

    9) Dependency: The ninth factor guaranteeing Islam’s onward march is the West’s dependency on the material resources of Arab and Muslim countries. In April 1917, Woodrow Wilson, recommending to the US Congress an American declaration of war against Germany, could say that “we have no selfish ends to serve”. American levels of consumption make no such statement possible now. The US is, so to speak, over a barrel.

    10) Powerful Retrograde Force: Finally, the West is convinced that its notions of technology-driven modernity and market-driven prog- ress are innately superior to the ideals of “backward” Islam. This is an old delusion. In 1899, Winston Churchill asserted that there was “no stronger retrograde force in the world” than Islam.

    This is written by a Leftist and is supported by other Leftist voices such as Nick Cohen who wrote Whats Left? How Liberals Lost their Way. So it seems that the Left is rising to the challenge and accusations levelled at them and taking on their own demons and looking at ideas critically.

    Im wondering when the right will stop standing there shouting about Islam and in effect giving everyone the motives they need to keep calling them Islamphobes

    Thats not appeasement – its another point of view

    As for Charles Johnson – yes he has but he is also now contributing to the above. Sometimes what he posts is dangerously close to unresearched unfounded bullshit.

    Great about CAIR – because many people in the UK dont know that the US has similar issues. And maybe if we can get some convergence in ideas out of this mess we would all be better off.

  30. Alison: "also, sorry but im not alone in my views on LGF"

    If you’re views are correct and sound, it matters not to me if you stand totally alone. And just because many agree with something doesn’t make it right.

    "Charles’ fuck up.."

    Can I ask you not to use this language when you comment to me? It makes my skin crawl.

    I’m going to look for the book. It sounds like it makes several good points.

    I agree strongly with 1, 2, and 8.

    Anyway, each point is worthy of a blog post and discussion or two, or three. Too bad you stopped blogging! You could address this point by point.

  31. We are losing. Much of this fits with the points made above:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2080411,00.html

    "making the moral position of the west more attractive to potential al-Qaida footsoldiers"

    al-Qaida had created a very powerful and attractive brand. The west had to make its position as attractive. "If you wish to recruit from within the opposing forces you need a clear moral position to engage the Muslim elite," he said.

    I cant think of anything more attractive to jihadis than the point made by the commenter at LGF (linked to in my blog, which i hope you will read) or frankly the way we big up Islamism. There has to be a way to discuss the issue on the internet without making them feel good about themselves.

    Thanks Patty and apologies for the language – I know exactly what you mean.

    So many of the comments at ATW on my posts made my skin crawl & so little debate ever ensued. That is why i stopped.

  32. Alison, that is a shame. I wanted to say that as a fellow contributor, I regard my own posts as merely a starting point for possible debate, but I accept that threads can lead to wildly off-topic conversations, as ATW is so lively that sometimes people just want to use a thread to have a chat on. I think you have to accept that, and just roll with it. A few times I’ve done a post and got no (or almost no) comments and I thought "oh no, I thought this was worthy of a good debate, did I do something wrong?", and other times I’ve been amazed at the number of comments. You just cannot tell how a post is going to be received. I get about 20 hits per day on my own blog, yet far fewer comments. So people are reading my nonsense but not commenting. I just shrug. So what? Guido Fawkes is the widest-read political blog in the UK yet the vast majority of the comments on his site are complete rubbish, and many are simply offensive, puerile crap. Big deal.

  33. Tom,

    Just to weigh in on this. I see that ALL ATW writers receive dozens, and more often hundreds, of hits each time they post. Comments are totally unpredictable and because the site rock and rolls, who knows what each nugget posted yields? Thats the fun and frustration of it all!

  34. Oh no.. its not the lack of comments Tom at all. I mean more the lack of debate when its gets hostile or whatever.

  35. Alison – that’s an interesting set of comments. The Nick Cohen book is good and well worth a read for his analysis of how the modern left got into bed with Islam. He’s well off the mark with his grotesque comments about Franco and the Spanish Civil war – but I suppose he hasn’t yet ‘gone there’ to examine the received left wisdom afresh. It mars a good book.

    I’d like to hear more about this LGF problem. I don’t understand what you’re saying above about LGF…

  36. Indeed, David. And I also think that what sets ATW apart from the other "main" political blogs such as Guido and Iain Dale (whose blog I like a lot, by the way; Iain is basically a nice chap) is that ATW is not a strictly Party political blog. Here, a voice of dissent can be found, and all are welcome to comment, you don’t feel out of place commenting if you are not part of the Westminster Village, as it were. I’ve left a few comments on Iain’s site this evening, but I sometimes feel slightly "out of place" commenting as a non-Conservative Party member. I’ve always found Iain to be affable and friendly, though.

  37. Tom,

    Iain is indeed a decent guy.

    I think the main point of difference is that we do dissent here from UK mainstreamisn and the posts frequently have a bite lacking elsewhere. It has to be a challenge here and lord knows it mostly is!!!

  38. Orlando – i agree about that section of the book. Actually i was impressed with his sound remarks about Thatcher and Serbia even if it was through gritted teeth! And the stuff about Scribblers is excellent, as is the lambasting of the Left for selling out the working class. I didnt know Liberals like Virginia Wolfe had suggested wiping them out – literally.

    Re LGF I think the best explanation is by that guy aethean who commented on LGF last December. An astonishingly clued in comment. You can link to it above.

  39. Alison – I understand. I don’t get upset about that stuff, because there is some truth in what they say. ie. we are a haven for Jihadis and they are a threat to the US esp. since they removed the visa requirement. I think as well that a cold look at our history does show we have messed up in the middle east and we have had problems keeping out of Israel’s business. For example the 1948 war of extermination against Israel was partly led by the British Army general John Glubb, who had command of the Jordanians. (They don’t teach that in school!). I don’t buy a lot of the nonsense about failing to help Jews during the war, but our record is not perfect.

    I don’t see that saying these things is defeatist or doing down the UK. I enjoy LGF as a cracking news site, and the owner has scored some major hits against false news stories in the MSM, outing Dan Rather and Reuters for using falsified documents to back up their fables.

    Chill, babe 😉

  40. Orlando – You can now get news on all these issues ahead of LGF. Without the anglophobic commentary its so much better 🙂

  41. Alison – sorry , I’m a bit slow tonight, are you telling me you’re going to keep blogging ?

    Change of subject – Re. Cohen’s book it was an eye-opener hearing what these Liberal elites actually believed. "Fabians’ – like Bernard Shaw, Woolf. Quite disgusting. I thought some of their beliefs were surprisingly contemporary though – like the vegetarianism, new-age alternative therapies, anti-religious. Even eugenics – if you think of the modern goings-on with embryos and test tube babies.

    Did you see the banner behind Gordon Brown when he was making his showpiece speech yesterday ?

    Yep – "Fabian Society"

  42. No im wonderin if you use news sites, the ones that update every 5 mins? There is a great one that has British Muslims and Islam as a specific sector, ages ahead of LGF on most topics. Just caught this great piece off it, though its standard MSM now:

    "Sometimes young people want to listen to the loud, strong speeches, even if what’s being said is wrong: they want to feel proud and part of something big and dramatic. But I won’t give them speeches like that"

    The Antidote to Terror

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1667358.ece

    plus the piece i linked in above re the muslim walk out in Nebraksa which isnt on LGF at all.

    Re Cohen – yes all fascinating stuff and no I missed that re Brown! The stuff about Bosnia was incredible. I didnt know they tried to deny that. Plus all the stuff about Chomsky..

    Anyway im knackered.. goodnight!

  43. Asymmetric wars are lost in the hearts and minds of democratic voters, not on the battlefield.
    Because many voters have turned negative on Iraq, the west is more seriously threatened by Muslim terrorists (many already in the UK) than they were before 9/11. Consequently Bush and Blair have been bad for our two countries. Both have failed to remind their voters why our soldiers are dying. They were very good at persuading everyone of the need for war, but appear to have assumed that we are all privy to the intelligence briefings that they receive.

    The "special relationship" does not exist – you only have to watch the Fox News network on satellite, where there is never a mention of British troops or peruse US blogs like LGF (as noted above) to realise that. It is less about a global concern and all about America. More specifically on blogs in portraying the world has issues that America doesnt.

    The two nations have more in common than any others in the developed world, including the enjoyment of civil liberties and being hamstrung by minority rights. We have more to lose than most from the prospective dark age of muslim theocracies – but the latter DO benefit from careless western propaganda both in the media and on the blogs. If there is only negative in both these domains then as correctly summised above – the war is already lost.

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