108 2 mins 14 yrs

Well then, I was very happy to see that IRA/Sinn Fein – the organised terrorist hypocrisy so beloved of the UK media – has had a disastrous result in the Irish Election. It looks like they will end up with NO advance whatsoever in terms of gained seats, and this is very good news indeed. Given the timing of devolution day in Northern Ireland – when these grinning monsters entered the government of Northern Ireland – the plan was that this would help push forward their prospects in the southern election. But  – whoops – it didn’t happen and the Adams family are in shock this morning. Where did it all go wrong? 

It is reported that…

The party’s representation in the Dáil was down at least one seat after a high-profile loss in Dublin and the failure to capture several other heavily targeted seats.

The interesting question is why do the electorate in the south mostly REJECT the Provo-spawn, whereas nationalists in the North just love ’em? Might it be that thirty five years of bombing and murder carried out by IRA/Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland have softened up and morally bankrupted a large section of the electorate here whereas there has been no such concomitant situation in the Republic? Also, constitutional instability in Northern Ireland only encourages insurrection whereas a settled constitution in the Republic leaves marginal room for those who advocate revolution.

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108 thoughts on “IRISH FASCISTS REJECTED AT THE POLLS

  1. SF appear to have two choices from here on—they can either radically alter their economic policies and move periously close to the centre or they can sulk until the economic downturn arrives. Neither strategy guarantees any future success.

    Today’s result proves that a UI is not a burning issue for southern voters and that the Euro in their pocket is more important than uncosted utopian flights of fancy. In short, SF are dealing with a more sophisticated electorate than their tribal following in the UK and are highly unlikely to break out of their core ROI constituencies anytime soon, if at all.

    The really galling thing for them is the fact that they have played all their big cards—partition by consent, decommissioning and support for the RUC/PSNI yet haven’t advanced a jot in the south. If they couldn’t make gains this time, exactly when can they do it?

    The question now has to be asked—what are Sinn Fein in the 21st century for? They have nothing to offer the ROI economy or the vast majority of it’s people and have no real power in a toothless NI assembly funded by the British Government. Their policies are based on outdated and failed political creeds and their glorification of terrorism is abhorrent.

    By accepting the principle of consent, they have ensured that partition will continue for decades.
    By their petty sniping at everything Unionist, they are actually prolonging the division of the island.

    Surely now would be the right time to exit the stage. To coin a phrase from a west Belfast gable wall mural, it is ‘time for peace time to go.’

  2. It seems that whist the voters in the Irish Republic are happy for Bertie to speak in Westminster and forge a closer relationships with the British government, they are not yet ready to let a party whose leader is a British MP have any say in their country. Maybe the way forward for SF is to forget their Irish dimension and merge with George Galloway’s Respect party and offer the good people of Britain a far left alternative to the vote for.

  3. Well said HA.

    it’s interesting – Henry advanced a theory that the unionists would be better off with the ROI – conservative and who reject SF – than with the leftist UK establishment who pander to them – but this election shows that while the ROI might want the unionist people of NI they sure as hell don’t want Northern Nationalists !

    First visit to slugger in ages – delightful !
    Best comment was from Pete Baker

    "As a somewhat partitionist observer maliciously remarked to me, even with the recent remarkable improvement in Irish-British relations, the people of this State are not yet ready to welcome the intervention of a member of the British parliament in the domestic political affairs of this State!"

  4. Another glaringly obvious point is that SFs few successes have been concentrated in the border counties. This merely indicates that their appeal is based on the NI ‘conflict’ (as opposed to the peace process) rather than 21st century realities.

    Their hard left policies have been utterly rejected and it has to be accepted that they may never be in vogue. British socialism effectively died on the operating table in 1979 and has stayed buried ever since. Now that the ROI electorate have tasted success and prosperity, they are highly unlikely to vote for a return to the days of pre 1990s austerity.

    The SF train has hit the buffers and the DUP can afford to show much less deference to this bunch of chancers in Stormont. They have effectively painted themselves into a corner. Having played their big cards and gambled everything on this election, they are left as an irrelevant rump in the south and a toothless party of protest in the north, destined to administer British rule alongside Unionism for decades.

    Their chances of seeing a UI in their lifetime has diminished even further today, and working a few north-south bodies and pushing the Irish language won’t advance that day one iota.

    Bizarrely, SF are beginning to resemble the UUP — a party with little reason to exist.

  5. >>Constitutional instability in Northern Ireland only encourages insurrection whereas a settled constitution in the Republic leaves marginal room for those who advocate revolution<<

    Let church bells toll – I agree with David on a NI statement!

    Another reason BTW, if one were needed, to support the power-sharing arrangement in NI:

  6. 4 seats for Sinn Féin out of a possible 165 on offer seems about right for the types of policies these chaps are advocating.

    Nobody in Ireland wants a United Ireland if they are the ones in control.

  7. a toothless party of protest in the north

    -Not quite… They have the DFM, 3 minstries and a Junior Minster… Plenty of teeth if you ask me.

    And on another point. Some of the comments seem to suggest that this election was some great victory for unionism… Are you all blind???? the Two largest Parties in the south are Republican, commited to a united Ireland.

  8. David… My point was something very different and perhaps you could deal with it instead of mis-directing it?

    I was in Dublin a couple of weekend’s ago with some Fianna Fail friends ad was very very surprised to see just how high unification is on the agenda for them… and how central it is for the party.

    They are Republicans, as are Fine Gael, its not simply a quant abstraction. The youth wings ran their internal elections on bringing their parties to the north, to places likes Queens and UU. They are very serious about it.

    If I was a unionist, I wouldn’t be that content at the minute. You have the most hated republican in government here with sell out unionists who are more concerned with power than principles, and less hated republicans knocking at your border with the First Minster of NI and the prime Minster of the UK Helping them win… No No, this was not a victory for unionism, it was something else.

  9. You keep dreaming Ciarnan. As a Unionist I haven’t had such a great day since my mother-in-law emigrated.

    Sure all the southern parties are nominally republican — and have been for the last 85 years. Even if they do decide to organise here, all they will do is eat into the SF vote, a highly welcome development.

    There’s also the small matter of the principle of consent, something which even the shinners have signed up to. I’d personally welcome a border poll ASAP so we can see exactly how far we are from the magic 50% +1. The general concensus seems to be somewhere around 35% with 40% being mooted by optimistic republicans. If they seriously thought there was the slightest chance of more they’d be out marching as we speak, demanding that democracy be exercised.

    The reality Ciarnan is that the union is safe for decades — Catholic families no longer produce ten children, the Prods aren’t emigrating in large numbers and the immigrants don’t care. Who is going to persaude even the soft Unionists to plump for a UI? Sinn Fein? Pull the other one.

    The result of the SF election debacle is that Gerry & the boys can no longer strut around like they own the place. They’re no longer armed and dangerous — now they’re not even elected and dangerous. The bulk of their vote, like it or not, is in the UK and in the south they are rapidly becoming an offensive irrelevance. Doors worldwide are going to be firmly closed and they’re condemned to administer British rule with their new Unionist chums for years. Game set and match I’d say.

    Unionism hasn’t had a lot of great days. But this is most definitely one of them and damn I’m enjoying it.

  10. Some terrific comments here.

    I said before ( forget where ), that Sinn Fein had reached its high point, and were actually an impediment to Irish unity since

    a) they were radioactive to Unionists

    b) they were nearly as radioactive to many in the Republic because of their paramilitary nature, and the ties the IRA has to poisonous organizations such as FARC, Hezbollah and the Cuban government

    Were Sinn Fein to ever command the heights of power in a 32 country Ireland, you’d likely see a tilt to a disastrous, confiscatory Cuban style economic policy , which would lead to a Cuban style poverty, and ultimately, to Cuban style gulags, albeit with lovely tricolors flying over them.

    As I said last fall, when I travelled in Cavan and Monaghan I spoke to several small farmers who –unprompted– said that they were opponents of Sinn Fein because of SF’s hard core left economic policy.

    Said one, "And you know that they hate you [Americans, American foreign policy], don’t you? They like to take your money, but they absolutely hate the United States". I knew, and I know.

    The voters of the Republic have displayed enormous maturity and sophistication.

    There will indeed be a united Ireland, an Ireland of equals as they say, and most of us will live to see it. But Sinn Fein will not see it from the inside. Take that one to the bank.

    Time for some new alliances and maybe even new political parties on a 32 county basis. Unionists most certainly included.

    Good job.

  11. Ciarnan,

    They are Republicans, as are Fine Gael, its not simply a quant abstraction. The youth wings ran their internal elections on bringing their parties to the north, to places likes Queens and UU. They are very serious about it.

    Not many unionists would publicly admit this, but I hope they (along with the British/Irish Labour parties) do start organising in NI. Anything that moves the debate beyond the crude sectarian, communal parameters that SF have helped to create and exploit has got to be a good thing long term, surely?

    No No, this was not a victory for unionism, it was something else.

    It’s a victory for democracy, that’ll do.

  12. The voters of the Republic have displayed enormous maturity and sophistication.

    What, by not voting Sinn Fein? You must have very low expectations of Irish people, Phantom.

  13. I’m not a Shinner myself but I wouldn’t get too excited lads. They’re not going away and some of their young candidates did very well. They would have had a seat in Dublin Central if they stood Nicky Keogh, and they very nearly had one in Donegal.

    It wasn’t their finest day but nor was it a disaster. The PDs on the other hand….

  14. Hugh

    –You must have very low expectations of Irish people–

    Not so, I’ve always had high expectations, as my comments over the last year and more on the various Irish sites will attest.

    But do I take enormous satisfaction to see these high expectations confirmed? Yes sir.

  15. I am delighted with the defeat of SF in the ROI elections.
    With all their money ( Northern Bank and drugs payment from FARC $25m ) they are by far the richest party in these islands and yet 93% of Irish people reject them.
    If I was a member I would be asking some questions of the leadership.
    The second oldest Party on the island and only receiving 7% of the votes.
    There is something wrong with policies or perhaps the public are fed up with terrorist connections and criminality and corruption at the heart of SF.
    More and more revelations will be made public.

  16. I’ve always had high expectations

    Well then, the only conclusion I can draw from this is that you are very undemanding in general.

  17. the Two largest Parties in the south are Republican,

    Hardly – they claim to be republicans in continuance of the old emnities of Civil War.

    "We’re Republicans"
    "No, we in FF are the Republican Party"

    commited to a united Ireland.

    Lip service.

  18. Hugh

    You may have been speaking in jest?

    I only comment as so very recently we were being told of the enormous gains that SF was about to get! The boys were measuring the drapes in their new offices only to find that no one had elected them.

  19. JG — SF pundits on Slugger were predicting 10 to 15 seats and even the most pessimistic expected double figures. The reality is they’re sweating for 4 seats — one LESS than last time.

    Factor into that the supposed bounce from Stormont and the PSNI issue and yes it was most definitely a disaster. Just because another party did worse doesn’t make it better.

    This was supposed to be the big breakthrough. Instead they have basically been told by the electorate — ‘thanks for ending your murder campaign in the north. Now piss off.’

  20. They’re not going away

    SF as someone said on Twenty Major, are Political Herpes 😉

    Your are right Julius – there will always be a few zealots and bigots around to keep them afloat – but they ain’t going to repeat 1918 and become a mainstream party.

  21. Confused, your name is most appropriate.

    Human Animals,

    Fair points and obviously I’m aware of all this. This election was tough on all small parties and on independent candidates, even those with national profiles. So did SF do far, far worse than expected? Yes. Will they come back from this? Of course they will.

    Given the presidential nature of the campaign I think the Greens and SF did reasonably ok. Both will live to fight many more days.

    ‘thanks for ending your murder campaign in the north. Now piss off.’

    There’s nothing to suggest this, it’s just your own hatred of SF coming through.

  22. there will always be a few zealots and bigots around to keep them afloat

    I didn’t say that, MR.

  23. –the only conclusion I can draw from this is that you are very undemanding in general–

    ??

    I have errands to do, and don’t know what the hell point you think you’re trying to begin to make.

    Immense gains were predicted by many for a Hard Left party with links to some of the more bloodthirsty and totalitarian entities in Ireland, Europe and countries far afield. This would have been a catastrophe for Ireland, the Irish people and the cause of Irish Unity.

    Many have been proven wrong, and will have to do some fancy dancing as they explain what the hell happened in the past week.

    The Irish people are a lot smarter than some think. They’re indeed too "mature and sophisticated" to shunt the island nation down the road to a Celtic Cuba, with all the misery which would come with that. It is that which has been avoided, I think permanently.

  24. Dear Lord! Phantom, SF are about as "hard left" as Bertie Ahern is. Have you seen the NI Assembly? Not exactly socialist revolution.

  25. JG

    A party with loving and fraternal ties with FARC, Fidel Castro, and Hezbollah may not show all of its cards until later in the game.

    Fidel Castro said that he was a democrat when he was fighting against the prior dictator, Batista. Only when all the levers of power were in his hands was the truth revealed.

  26. The most SF can hope for in the future is to be one part of a coalition. That means they would have to agree on and sign up to a programme for government in advance.

    To argue that there is any, however remote, possibility that they will "shunt the island nation down the road to a Celtic Cuba" is risibly naieve.

  27. JG

    I say that they would indeed to that –if they held the levers of power–

    Which will never happen.

    They’re not ready for the "dustbin of history", but the future does not belong to them.

  28. "Where’s Gaskin? ;)"

    Chris is on his own blog saying why it was a successful election because McDowell didn’t get re-elected.

    When SF give him the official partyline, I’m sure he will be on here to tell us that the world is really flat!

  29. MR quoting Pete Baker:

    "As a somewhat partitionist observer maliciously remarked to me, even with the recent remarkable improvement in Irish-British relations, the people of this State are not yet ready to welcome the intervention of a member of the British parliament in the domestic political affairs of this State!"

    Garret FitzGerald in today’s Irish Times:

    "As a somewhat partitionist observer maliciously remarked to me, even with the recent remarkable improvement in Irish-British relations, the people of this State are not yet ready to welcome the intervention of a member of the British parliament in the domestic political affairs of this State!"

  30. Well Well, what an election.

    Im quite surprise FF did so well.

    TwentyMajor sums it up well for me ( Warning, contains language that may require some of ye to do double penance for)

    Don’t Complain..

    So the PDs got the kicking they deserved. I honestly didnt think McDowell would get the boot and his retirement for politics was equally a shock. Im not a massive fan of this mans politics, but he did provide a great source of entertainment.

    FG made gains, but the public just didnt trust them as being ready yet for government. Besides, they were not offering anything FF couldnt deliver. I reckon a FG headed by simon Coveney will lead FG into government sometime in the future. In the mean time, get rid of all of those boring shadow ministers especially mitchel and joan whats her name

    Looking back now, Gerrys appearance in the debate of 4 seems to have been a massive error of judgment. I and others have been saying it here that NI is not an electing issue in the ROI, and those that thought that success in NI would help them in the ROI were wrong. The only person who might have got an increase in vote as a result of NI was bertie.

    Labour, time for change… where are the younger candidates. Get rid of rabbite and try find someone with a bit of charisma.

    The Greens have done alright and I reckon they will be the party that bertie gives the merc keys to. He most of all wants solid and safe government and he wont get that from PD + others.

    As for whether or not this was a good election for Unionists. I suppose for Unionists, seeing SF’s aspirations shot down must be a comforting thing. Yes, the major parties are republican parties, but they are aspirational republicans. That said, I do expect both FF and FG to begin organising in NI soon, which will put the squeeze on SF. The SDLP might merge with either and form a party which Unionism might be a lot more comfortable sharing power with

  31. You must have been quite happy with the results Noel.

    Bertie the first man to lead 3 governments in a row back into government since dev.

  32. JG: ‘There’s nothing to suggest this, it’s just your own hatred of SF coming through.’

    Well actually JG there is. If SF were ever going to get a ‘peace process bounce’ it was now. If their new radical ideas for the Irish economy were going to be given a chance, it was at the tail end of a ragged FF second term with Bertie on the ropes over his finances. Neither of those came even remotely close to happening.

    The electorate eyed up SF and declared them to be at best the party of the underclass. They didn’t like their uncosted Harry Potter economics and their slick vacuous party political broadcasts. They didn’t like Gerry’s bumbling in the small parties debate and they didn’t like the meaningless mantras about equality and rights. They might cut it in Twinbrook but the republic is a whole different ball game and let’s be honest a whole different country.

    And yes I do have a hatred of SF. I’ve lived in Northern Ireland all my life — SFs ‘military wing’ have murdered hundreds of Protestants / Unionists, including a good friend of mine in the La Mon Hotel. This action was reportedly ordered by a man who purports to be a politican and statesman. La Mon didn’t even have the fig leaf of being a ‘legitimate target’ — their blow for Irish freedom was directed against the collie club.

    But hey it’s not just me. SFs military wing killed more Catholics than the police, army and loyalists combined. And Gerry justified everything — blowing up ten men in a minibus was due to ‘the failure of British policy in Ulster’ apparently. Shooting a retired policeman in front of his family ‘wasn’t to be condemned.’

    And when the penny finally dropped that slaughtering the innocents wasn’t getting anywhere, Gerry portrayed himself as a ‘man of peace’, for ending a campaign that should never have begun. What a statesman.

    Now they’re the rightful govt of a 32 county socialist Ireland apparently. Except that 93% of the ROI don’t agree.

    As for your comment to Phantom — you can’t have it both ways. If they’re ‘as hard left as Bertie Ahern’ they’ve nothing new to offer and should join FF. They can hardly foment ‘socialist revolution’ in Stormont as it’s entirely a puppet assembly of the British state with no significant power.

    If SF want to stand the slighest chance of electoral success outside the UK, they need to ditch the loony left economics, stop glorifying terrorism and shut up about the peace process. Nobody wants to know.

  33. Noel – Pete made it quite clear that his comment was a quote of GF 🙂

  34. Garret Fitzgerald must be running on some sort of mini nuclear power station. How he keeps going at his age, ill never know. He was commenting right throughout the day on the election and apparently had a piece done up for the Irish Times and all and him nearly 81 or so!!

  35. Phantom,

    They’re not ready for the "dustbin of history", but the future does not belong to them

    The future doesn’t belong to any single party, besides possibly FF.

    Human Animals,

    Some wild extrapolations but hatred skews logical analysis.

  36. SFs military wing killed more Catholics than the police, army and loyalists combined.

    I think you are wrong about that.

  37. ‘hatred skews logical analysis.’

    Somewhat negates any logic Sinn Fein may possess as they have a pathological hatred of anything British.

  38. >>Bertie the first man to lead 3 governments in a row back into government since Dev.<<

    Yes. Tho it’s hard to beat Dev. He was in power continuously (Dev the Older) for 16 years first. If Bertie continues till 2007, he’ll have held the reins for only 15 years. Then Dev the Much Older was in power again after the war for a further 7 years, making it 23 years of the Long Fellow in total.

    Fianna Fail really must be Ireland’s most successful act besides U2. By 2012 it will have been in power for 62 of the 85 years since it was formed. I read somewhere that as democratically elected parties go, FF is second only to the SDP in Sweden in terms of tenure in government. Maybe with this extra 5 years it will even will pip the Swedes.

  39. Noel, what do you make of twenty majors points though (language aside)

    When are FF going to get the finger out and take on the unions. When are they going to tackle the health service head on. When is proper planning going to be the order of the day.

    I acknowledge that they have delivered some, none more then was due though, but its high time they started to deliver more.

  40. HA,

    ANY CHANCE OF EXPANDING ON THIS?

    I would have thought it was clear enough. All small parties polled poorly, not just SF. Not sure what the following claims are based on:


    The electorate eyed up SF and declared them to be at best the party of the underclass

    They didn’t like their uncosted Harry Potter economics and their slick vacuous party political broadcasts

    They didn’t like Gerry’s bumbling in the small parties debate and they didn’t like the meaningless mantras about equality and rights

    Your claims are based on your prejudices and hatred, there’s simply no proof.

  41. Submariner — my bad. It should have read — the IRA killed more Roman Catholics than the police, the army and other security forces combined:

    Of the 1,543 Roman Catholics killed – 381 were killed by republican paramilitaries. The combined total–which comprises the innocent and the guilty–killed by the RUC, the Ulster Defence Regiment, the Royal Irish Regiment and other Regular Army units was 316. In other words, more Roman Catholics were killed by republican paramilitaries than by the Army, the RUC and other legitimate forces combined.

  42. JG is right in that the overall "message" of this election is that when things become dicey, the electorate rushes to the big ones. All the small parties did poorly, some much worse than SF, the independents were practically wiped out. One of the most shocking – and most tragic IMO – developments was the sudden meltdown of Joe Higgins, who had a huge following in his constituency and had consistently done well.

    Re. Sinn Fein. The biggest blow for them is the failure of ML McDonald to get elected. They really needed a character like her in the Dail. However, I think it was a huge mistake to prachute a woman from Rathgar of all places – complete with private-school upbringing, a Trinity eduction,etc. – into such a salt-of-the-earth place as Drumcondra/Phibsboro/Cabra. Poor Nicky Kehoe had done years of work in the constituency and came within a shout of getting elected the last time. Then he was shoved off in favour of Mona Lisa. Kehoe might not have been elected either, such was the swing to FF (Cyprian Brady is a lacklustre nobody in the constituency and even he got elected), but there is probably a SF quota there, and IMO it was a kind the outsider (i.e. Northern) ignorance of the temper of the people that nominated someone like ML and lost it for SF.

    Kloot, hope you aren’t too disappointed and will raise a glass with me this evening to at least further government of peace and prosperity.
    The health service will be top of the agenda for the new Govt. Mark my words!

  43. Kloot, hope you aren’t too disappointed and will raise a glass with me this evening to at least further government of peace and prosperity.

    Consider the glass raised… now hurry the hell on.. my glass is empty and its your round mate!!! 🙂

  44. JG

    ‘Your claims are based on your prejudices and hatred, there’s simply no proof.’

    JG the points I made were all mentioned on RTE Radio within the last 24 hours. Short of canvassing every voter, they can’t be ‘proved’ but they are all valid points which SF will need to take on board if they are to avoid a repeat fiasco.

    My ‘prejudices and hatred’ are irrelevant, and it’s a bit rich to criticise considering that SF have made a career from prejudices and hatred for decades.

    What they really can’t seem to stomach is criticism of themselves, hence the huge well of animosity for Michael McDowell.

  45. All small parties polled poorly, not just SF.

    How many of the small parties were boasting that they would double their seats ? Which other small party had the huge amount of positive press because of events in NI ?

    And since when have SF sheltered behind claiming to be a small party ? They claim to be the Third largest part in Ireland 🙂

  46. Human Animals

    I second all your remarks. A bad day for the shinners is a good day for the island of Ireland (a phrase they love using). Now if only their sectarian rabble supporters in NI could see the light. Maybe next time…

  47. Human Animals,

    Your extrapolations are hysterical and were not mentioned on RTE Radio.

    SF are down one seat, lads, not exactly doomsday!

  48. Oh dear JG you’re losing it.

    My points WERE all mentioned on RTE radio one, a station I very seldom listen to. I decided to tune in to see how SF were doing and got hooked. In fact it was so good I stayed up till 2am.

    I won’t say the journalistic and presentation styles were particularly attractive, but the brusque treatment of various SF apologists was refreshing after the deference often afforded these people in NI.

    There was a fair bit of analysis given to the SF performance, and all the points I made and more were given a good airing.

    JG I really think you need a couple of whiskies (Bushmills of course) and a good lie down. Maybe things will look better in the morning.

  49. Hefty drop in support compared to 2004 elections Julius – 11 % down to 7%!

  50. Charles

    I’m here!

    Unlike others I was waiting for the final results before I blogged, unlike yanks I like to know what I am talking about 😉

    Ian

    Chris is on his own blog saying why it was a successful election because McDowell didn’t get re-elected.

    That’s not what I said at all, have you the ability to read?

    When SF give him the official partyline, I’m sure he will be on here to tell us that the world is really flat!

    As MR can testify to I am not a party drone, I will put forward my own view. I don’t take lines or orders from anyone.

    Here is my opinion on why we failed

    http://gaskinbalrog.blogspot.com/2007/05/sinn-fin-what-went-wrong.html

  51. Human Animals,

    Tut tut, playing the man! 🙂

    You have assumed I am a Shinner. In fact I am not, ask Chris or MR. Unlike yourself I am looking at this objectively. You are influenced by your self-confessed hatred of SF. As I said before, hatred skews logical analysis. I’m being generous here!

  52. Yep, fair play to you Chris, you call it as you see it and were quick to announce that you would be eating Humble Pie.

  53. JG I haven’t assumed you’re a member of SF — perhaps you can point out where I indicated such. All I know is that you were arguing for them and that’s all I needed to know.

    We’ve already dealt with the ‘hatred skews logical analysis’ myth.

    Let’s face it if you shoot, bomb and intimidate your political opponents, you’re going to garner more than your fair share of hatred. That certainly doesn’t mean that your opponents lack logic or fail to perceive the blindingly obvious — that whatever way you slice it, this election has been a disaster for SF.

  54. A loss of one single seat, oh yes a complete disaster! LOL.

    We’ve already dealt with the ‘hatred skews logical analysis’ myth

    No, we haven’t. Is it really a myth? Please elaborate. So does hatred aid objectivity and nuanced understanding? 🙂

  55. A loss of one single seat, oh yes a complete disaster! LOL.

    It certainly is when you’re expecting a doubling of seats and a significant breakthough. If you find it a laughing matter I can only assume you’re a Unionist in disguise.

    ‘Is it really a myth?’

    Few political movements are devoid of hatred for their opponents, particularly when genocide is involved.
    Ask SF. They have had a hatred of everything British for the last century. Does that indicate they are incapable of logical discource with the ‘old enemy’?

  56. Sucess or failure is judged only by expectation and seeing as he expected to double our seats this was a disaster (short term)

    Long term? Not on your life!

  57. Chris and Julus – how is going from 11% at the last ROI European election to 7% and losing a seat at this election, despite all the ‘triumph’ in the North anything other than a disaster ?

  58. Chris Gaskin

    I read your analysis of why the shinners failed. It’s remarkable how close it is to Human Animals, i.e. the "26 counties" don’t care about a united Ireland. But this was revealing of the shinner mindset:

    "We must also remember that the electorate in most of the 26 counties are not as trusting as the Northern voters. They require and demand proper policies and proper strategies from us. It’s not like South Armagh or West Belfast where you could stand a donkey with a tricolour and they would get elected."

    To me this reads like a highly patronising attitude to your voters in NI. And also that your northern policies and strategies are not "proper". Still struggling with the recognition of the PSNI?

  59. Long term? Not on your life!

    If decommissioning and entry into Government couldn’t get you more TDs …..

  60. For the record Chris, I’ve no idea where SF can go from here. The peace process bounce hasn’t happened and the economics either haven’t been thought through (how can you change corp tax policy in the middle of a campaign?) or are just plain unacceptable.

    The republic has become a capitalist society and SF cannot turn the clock back. There will always be a disadvantaged protest vote for them but breaking out of their core constituency looks like a huge ask.

    The only real answer is a betrayal of their principles. They can risk moving to the centre and becoming irrelevant or staying where they are and becoming archaic.

    If they are to make any progress in the south they have to ditch the northern image and personnel, thereby negating their ‘all Ireland’ stance.

    Then there is the double-edged sword of the NI assembly. If it’s performance is good, NI is seen as a relatively stable entity, with no immediate need for change. If it’s performance is bad, SF are seen to be poor performers, even in the glorified local council that Stormont effectively is.

    Gerry needs to be replaced. His performances are becoming a liability and his overly optimistic backing of Mary-Lou has proved a disaster. Fresh faces need to be brought in, preferably not people directly associated with terrorism and criminality.

    Above all, SF needs a purpose other than the mantra of UI. From this viewpoint, that is the most difficult problem of all.

    Ireland has moved into an era of peace and prosperity undreamt of even a decade ago. There are losers and under-privleged certainly but not enough to propel the likes of SF anywhere near govt.

    SF are currently perceived as a one-issue northern party with economic delusions. A lot of work needs to be done.

  61. It’s remarkable how close it is to Human Animals, i.e. the "26 counties" don’t care about a united Ireland

    You sure it was my piece you were reading? I didn’t say anything like that!

    To me this reads like a highly patronising attaitde to your voters in NI. And also that your northern policies and strategies are not "proper".

    Peter, I will take this very slowly

    For about 75-80% of people in the 6 counties there only is one issue. the national question!

    That is the reality, now I am from South Armagh where 84% of the electorate vote Sinn Féin. They vote for the brand and not the person.

    Mad

    how is going from 11% at the last ROI European election to 7% and losing a seat at this election, despite all the ‘triumph’ in the North anything other than a disaster ?

    You are being very disingenious and not comparing like with like.

    Going by your suggestion Pasiley and John Hulmes party should have had more MP’s than the UUP because they each got a bigger percentage of the vote at European elections.

    From the last general election our vote is up, always compare like with like

  62. Chris posted:

    "Peter, I will take this very slowly
    For about 75-80% of people in the 6 counties there only is one issue. the national question!"

    In your dreams Chris! Try these:

    Housing
    Tax credits and tax
    Cost of living
    Mortgages
    Fuel costs
    Schools and education
    Roads and transport

    Day to day, the above rank much higher than "the national question" in the lives of most people in NI, I daresay even in south Armagh.

  63. Chris I’ve just read your blog analysis and I have to agree that we’re not particularly similar on most issues (not surprising since I’m a Unionist).

    It was however refreshing to see someone cutting through the bullshit and telling it like it is.

    I personally think that SF have had a very easy ride politically in the north. The two govts have shown them undue deference and their Unionist political ‘opponents’ are for the most part a joke (I went to school with one of them and words fail me that he has risen above tea-boy).

    Now that the gloves are off in the south, Gerry suddenly looks like a small boy expecting a hug and getting a dig in the mouth instead. Your comments on the donkey in a tricolour are spot on.

    However it’s a whole new world out there in the Republic and I don’t envy you the task you’re attempting.

  64. You are being very disingenious and not comparing like with like.

    no, I think you have to address the point rather than prevaricate – SF got the support of 11.1% in the last all-ROI election – and 7% in this all-ROI election.
    After all your party boasted about the improvement since the last General Election when you did well at the European elections 🙂

    But do let’s compare with the last General election –

    1) from 5 TDs to 4 is a 20% drop….

    2) How are the majorities of the 4 who were returned ?
    Up or down ?

    On this performance how many MEPs would you get ? 😉

    From the last general election our vote is up,

    Only because you stood more candidates in more constituencies !

  65. genocide??????????????

    This hysterical nonsense is getting ridiculous, HA.

    A lot of wishful thinking here. A bad day, no doubt, but sorry lads, SF haven’t gone away y’know! LOL.

  66. SF haven’t gone away y’know! LOL.

    Julius – how could they go away ? They have never showed up in the ROI 🙂 They have only half the number of TDs now that the PDs had in 2002!

    They are a Northern party !

  67. They have never showed up in the ROI

    Erm… no, I think you’ll find they have! Keep wishing though LOL!

  68. So do the Greens – who also presently have more TDs than the shinners 🙂

  69. And as we were talking about whether or not SF have "showed up" in the past in the ROI, well their best performance hasn’t even reached past PD level 🙂

  70. You can spin it any way you want, MR, they are still in a decent position. Also, I believe if the numbers stacked up they would have gone in with FF. I think it’s much better that they didn’t. This could be a blessing in disguise.

  71. No Spin from me Julius – I call it as I see it 🙂
    It’s the shinners who need to do the spinning – as theyare the ones who were rejected by the electorate of the ROI!

  72. They dropped one seat while promising to double their representation – and they struggled to get the 4 survivors back . Mary Lou resoundingly rejected – despite the kitchen sink !

  73. Just got in from a hard day’s celebration at the excellent result.

    Delighted to see you’re still here brassing it out JG.
    The only person you’re convincing that this wasn’t a total disaster for SF is yourself. I haven’t seen so many LOL’s since the 12th July.

    Pity Chris couldn’t answer any of my earlier posts but he’s had a lot of tears to dry.

  74. >>I haven’t seen so many LOL’s since the 12th July.<<

    LOL!! Nice one.

  75. HA, just calling it as I see it. It was a bad day for SF but cetainly not a disaster. Just saw Fiona O’Malley on TV3 more or less conceding that the PDs are finished.

    SF are a different story. They are well organised and motivated. I have been very critical of them; wishy-washy policies etc., and Adams was awful in the RTE debate. They had a poor election, no doubt, but for people to say they are finished is just tosh. It’s wishful thinking and repeating it over and over won’t make it any less ridiculous.

  76. MR

    We’ll just sit back and laugh. Don’t you just hate sore losers (LOL!)?

  77. JG — I never once suggested that SF were finished.

    After all it took them 25 years to realise that murdering people wasn’t going to achieve a UI. And I’m sure there’s plenty of funds left in the £26 million election war chest.

    My contention is that they have no reason to exist.

  78. HA, you also claimed a genocide took place in norn iron which somewhat dents your credibiity.

    McCann,

    I didn’t vote for SF, so therefore I didn’t lose. Nice try though.

  79. JG a vicious republican terrorist campaign was carried out against the Unionist community here for decades, seeking to destroy lives, limbs and livings. Perhaps you’d prefer to call it mass murder.

  80. Oh, what about the UDA, UVF, LVF, RHD?

    Your examples above are, like PIRA, merely a list of bigoted psychopathic thugs steeped in criminality.

    But do any of the above proclaim themselves the rightful govt of Ireland? Do any of them receive anything more than a derisory vote from their constituencies?

  81. just pointing out how one-sided your post was.

    but the thread was about SF/IRA Julius.

  82. MR,

    The thread veared into a few different things. If you want to be pedantic, then read back. HA suggested there had been a genocide. When I challenged this he had a little MOPE. Then, I pointed out how self-indulgent and one-sided that was.

    Time for fresh air… dream on lads.

  83. ‘A little MOPE’? Well you are after all defending the experts in MOPE-ery JG. Compared to the antics of SF, my ‘little mope’ was indeed mild.

    No event is too old or too controversial to escape the SF mope machine. The famine, 1916, bloody Sunday, internment, the hunger strikes, Loughgall you name it — they can get a rabble out to commemerate it. Probably the same rabble who’d vote for ‘a donkey in a tricolour.’ And before you bring it up, I couldn’t give a stuff about 1690 either.

    This thread is heading for a record number of postings, so I think it’s time to wind up with the salient points:

    1. SF had a disaster of an election in the republic. They polled 6.9% — not much better than Alliance in NI. They got just 4 seats — one of them, a supposed ‘shoo-in’ finished with a cushion of 69 votes.

    2.This was the election when everyone, myself included, expected the big SF breakthrough — at least a doubling of seats. It was on a plate for them — the Stormont ‘bounce’, Bertie on the ropes, the policing issue resolved. It didn’t happen and it ain’t going to happen.

    3. Gerry proved a liability, both in debate and his over-endorsement of Mary-Lou. The north proved to be, as everyone outside SF knows, a side-issue.

    4. Chris Gaskin at least had the guts to acknowledge the shambles and bravely try to see a way forward, however unlikely that may be.

    5. SF no longer has any reason to exist — they are clearly incapable of producing a UI and are in fact delaying it through their constant baiting of the community they need to convince — Unionism. The southern electorate have roundly rejected their economic policies and are happy to consign them to the dustbin of history. Nothing JG has said on this thead offers any reason for SF to continue outside the UK other than sheer bloody-mindedness.

    My advice to Gerry is to take up Sinn Fein’s Westminster seats and follow Taylor & Trimble into the Lords.

    Personally speaking I’ve had a great weekend.
    Thanks JG it’s been fun.

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