37 6 mins 10 yrs

My thanks to Kateyo for raising this story from the always excellent Suzanne Breen;

The BNP has sent a chilling message to immigrant families in East Belfast – ‘hands off our nursery school places, you foreign parasites’. And the party’s Northern Ireland branch has launched a stinging attack on local politicians for encouraging multi-culturalism.

The BNP is claiming that dozens of local children are being turned away from the school gates because priority is being given to immigrants. The BNP said it’s despicable that the children of “foreigners on benefit” who barely speak English are being accepted into nursery schools while Belfast-born kids have been refused places for the start of term next month. The nursery school system is in crisis with around 1,500 children across Northern Ireland refused places due to a lack of resources. A BNP spokesman condemned a string of other ‘injustices’. “It’s not just our nursery school places being snapped up by these unwelcome spongers. It’s all our services – from housing to hospital appointments and treatment – the list is endless,” he said. “Our country is being flooded day and daily by the over-spill from the bursting mainland by every undesirable who can make their way here to claim benefits and services which we can’t get for our own people.”

I have been asked for my views on this so  here they are;

1. The BNP is using the very genuine concerns many people have to further its own hateful insulationist agenda. Calling immigrants per se “spongers” is inflammatory. There are people legally entitled to be here and they are getting what government has decreed they are entitled to. So, who to blame?

2. The real issue is that the major political players at Westminster (as opposed to the local minnows at Stormont) refuse to deal with the Immigration issue because our membership of the EU guarantees that as many Eastern Europeans as possible can lawfully come here to take advantage of the Welfare benefits. The EHRC also commits us to allow all kinds of “asylum seekers” as evidenced on these pages time and time again. So the real FRAUD is that of the Lib/Lab/Cons. Blaming those who take advantage of their weakness seems a bit unfair to me. I would tighten up every aspect of Welfare legislation but even then the truth is that as EU members, we are wide open to all who want to come here.

3. Alliance are, of course, utterly useless on the issue of Immigration but since they are equally useless on every other issue, what’s the big surprise. People voted for Alliance in their thousands – enjoy the consequences.

4. The way to solve all this is for the United Kingdom to withdraw from the EU, asserts its national sovereignty, protect all borders, ensure we allow those with real  talent from outside of the UK into it (Yes, Immigration can be very good for you!) and in doing this we remove the threat of the BNP.

5. It’s all very well for some to talk of BNP being extreme. But what is Sinn Fein/IRA? There are some double standards in play here too.

There IS  a real problem here and trying to use the BNP as the bogeyman does not make it go away.

The UK has been destination welfare for so many immigrants (and not just from Eastern Europe) and Labour’s infatuation with multiculturalism has had a big part to play in creating tensions. The BNP seeks to exploit these concerns but perhaps rather than just castigate them we should be asking why the larger established parties have acted so cravenly? There are also people from other parts of Europe here who work very hard and who make a real contribution to our society, unlike some local parasites (Ooops, THAT word again, my my, hope the BBC aren’t taking notes, then again….)

I want to see British jobs for British people – yes. I also want to ensure we bring in sensible numbers of people from outside the UK who have skills and talents that can augment what we have. I seek borders that are not permeable.  I believe these are reasoned views not extreme. In fact the REAL extremism can be found in the bile of the BNP and the arrogance of the multicultists.

East Belfast is where this issue has arisen in Northern Ireland. As you know, I canvassed that area when I stood for Westminster and the BNP is right to say that people in some areas there do have real concerns about how folks coming from outside the UK seem to get priority treatment than them and their families. Why shouldn’t they?

But the solution lies in the hands of those political lotus-eaters who feign concern but smile knowingly and insist that come what may, we MUST remain in the EUSSR. How do you change their minds, that’s the question?

I wish I had the answer but one could start by not voting for them I suppose. Is the BNP worth a vote? Nope. Is UKIP? Maybe.

In the final analysis putting your faith in politicians and their parties is perhaps misplaced idealism.

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  1. Issues should be addressed without having to resort to extremist parties of any stripe.

    Glad that someone has seen sense on IRA/Sinn Fein at last.

    Mind you, I wouldn’t call the BNP particularly extreme in some of what it says. The point of the BNP, that the British state ought to act for and on behalf of the British people, puts it firmly in the centre of political tradition.

    To argue otherwise, that the point of the British state is not to act for us, is unarguably the extreme and historically perverse position.

  2. Pete – Nice try, and although I am no fan of the Sinn Fein crowd, they are a mainstream party in NI.

    The BNP, however they try to pretty themselves up, are fringe (measured by numbers and by platform).

  3. Mahons –

    I didn’t say you’re a supporter of IRA/Sinn Fein, but you have always spoken of the necessity of negotiating and dealing with them. However as soon as the BNP is mentioned (at the last count, zero deaths attributed) you “shouldn’t resort to extremist parties”.

    In any comparison with IRA/Sinn Fein, the BNP is not remotely extreme.

  4. Pete – We are in an Apples and Oranges discussion. Sinn Fein is a political player in NI, I wish it were not so, but that is the case. They were an indispensible party to any peace, and while I wish concessions had not been as great, the result speaks for itself – there is peace in NI that no one would have contemplated a couple decades ago. The lamebrained socialism and unnecessary partinsanship that Sinn Fein engages in I trust will evolve as its more culpable leadership ages and is replaced by new leadership.

    The BNP was founded by pure racists whose agenda was transparent to the good people of Britain, who to their credit, don’t support an organization that tries to hijack patriotism for unsavory ends.

  5. Let me know what those unsavoury ends are Mahons. From what I see, read and hear of today’s BNP their aims are the aims of the British people. Whilst on the subject of the BNP what do you all think about the Police in Greenwich telling 6 BNP activists who were peacefull passing out leaflets to leave. And oh by the way three of the activists just happened to be OAPs. I wonder who gave the Police those orders.

  6. Oh and I nearly forgot, we wouldn’t have the problem of the jobless waste of space Somali living it up in a £2 million London residence if the BNP had anything to say about it.

    What you must remember is that many of today’s members of the BNP are former soldiers. Those who fought in the war for their country and those too who served in later conflicts. Those who saw the sacrifices of their comrades and those who wanted a better future. Are you really surprised that they belong to the only Party who is specific in wanting the same thing too? It’s easy to condemn what you know very little about.

  7. Yes, but you omit the fact that you will now have benefit of the magnificent Somali culture.

    Perhaps someday London will be another Mogadishu.

  8. Marlloy

    There are some strange people in it but there are also some decent people that I know. As I say, I put little faith in any British political parties.

  9. Marlloy – your point about former soldiers being in the BNP means nohing. There are weak minded people in all professions, including the armed forces sadly. Thankfully my family’s strong military line has true patriots in it who fought Nazi scum, not joined it.

  10. David, Are you feeling better? I know you said you felt out of sorts over the weekend and I thought I ‘read’ it in your posts.

    Gypsy Rose Marlloy!!!

  11. Marlloy – The BNP’s electoral showing demonstrates that they are not championing the aims of the British people, but rather their own fringe aims (on issues of race and religion).

    I have no information as to the event in which 6 BNP activists were handing out leaflets, other than the claims made by the BNP itself. I support the right of anyone, including the BNP, to free speech. The circumstances of this event need closer inspection.

    I have no figures for the number of BNP members who may have served in the British Military, though I suspect the numbers are less than you imagine. Certainly service in and of itself is neither a plus or a minus as to merit of one’s political arguements. In any event, the BNP has clashed with service member organizations (the Royal British Legion comes to mind). Why they even annoyed Dame Vera Lynne!

  12. Pete Moore – there are many, myself included who would view the BNP as yet another incarnation of Hitler’s Nazi party, therefore Sinn Fein it could be argued, despicable as they are, are lightweights in comparison. All cut from the same cloth IMO. Don’t forget, the right in the 1930’s were falling over themselves in the guise of Chamberlain and others were falling over themselves and demeaning our nation in their attemots to appease Hitler. The paralells are obvious.

  13. In the final analysis putting your faith in politicians and their parties is perhaps misplaced idealism.

    Given your antipathy to politicians and the contempt you seem to hold them in, why have you twice sought office?

    The key difference between SF and the BNP is that a large per centage of people vote for SF. The BNP has been an electoral disaster. They have no mandate and speak for no-one but themselves and their ever diminishing coterie of sloping-forehead racists.

    And before anyone says anything about having two MEPs yes they do- and a more vile pair of reptiles would be hard to find – but that was because the BNP vote held while every other party fell as turnout collapsed. Had turnout not collapsed neither would have been returned.

    If you look at the BNP performance at the next election it was humiliated. And a good thing to.

  14. Geoff Watts, I think you should take up fortune telling. By the way what does a ‘sloping forehead’ anything mean?

    Your last paragraph is a contradiction in terms – or is that a manifestation of your soothsaying abilities?

  15. David, Glad to hear it, but don’t leave anything to chance and take it easy until you are 100%.

  16. I wish I had the answer but one could start by not voting for them I suppose. Is the BNP worth a vote? Nope. Is UKIP? Maybe.

    After this I don’t think anyone at stormont will face down the problem of racism or jobs or broken families but at least they keep themselves well out of the poverty trap eh?

  17. I’m sorry but the idea that the Hitler-loving revisionist thugs of the BNP are in “the centre of the political tradition” or somehow “less-bad” than the Shinners is bizarre and says a lot about the moral relativism at the core of some of ATW’s commentators.

  18. MourneReg –

    When the BNP has murdered a few thousand people you’ll be at the point where you can compare it with IRA/Sinn Fein.

    That the BNP believes the British people ought to govern themselves and not be slaves to a foreign suzerain puts it (in this respect) wholly within human history, impulse and British tradition.

  19. The BNP are a horrible bunch, but they haven’t actually gone on an ethnic killing spree like Sinn Fein- IRA have so clearly they are a good deal “less bad” than them.

    Anyway the BNP are a busted flush, led and supported by people without the minimum intellectual requirements needed to turn them into a real force. The somewhat misnamed “far right” does have a chance to make the kind of headway other parties in Europe has but they would need to ditch the Hitler worshippers and overt racial hatred to gain wider support.

  20. I found this little nugget and it expresses much of my thinking:

    – Some may scoff at describing what is happening in Britain today as genocidal. However, the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) defines genocide as:

    “… deliberately inflicting on [a] group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.”

    Webster’s Dictionary defines it as:

    “… the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.”

    Can anybody deny that this will be the result of the policies carried out by the ruling oligarchy and their puppet politicians?

    Genocide, as defined above, seems to be a precise definition of what we’re seeing in Britain and particularly England, in present times. A recent report stated that a census to be carried out in March this year is expected to show that the number of ‘white’ pupils in Birmingham education has fallen to 47%. The tipping point has been reached and the future of this English city is for its native English to be an ethnic minority. Indeed in a previous report it was stated that the number of children under the age of seven in education in Birmingham was 40% Asian and 39% ‘white’ with the rest Afro-caribbean and other ethnicities. It seems that the indigenous English are going to be a minority in the second largest city in the land and they won’t even constitute the largest ethnic group. Birmingham isn’t the only city in this position. London, Bradford, Leicester and many others aren’t far behind. All done through lies and deception, without any mandate and against the wishes of the majority.

    Not only that but, as we’ve seen, these children, of all ethnicities, are already being indoctrinated, through the education system, into becoming willing members (world citizens) of the New World Order ‘global village’. It is undoubtedly presented in harmless sounding, even desirable terms, such as unity, tolerance and diversity along with a positive appraisal of all things ‘global’, but the end result of this brainwashing will be a long way from that. It is merely the beginning of the ‘mongrelisation’ and enslavement envisaged by Albert Pike.

    As part of this process, done under the guise of ‘social justice’ or ‘equality’, ethnic minority young people are encouraged to affirm or ‘celebrate’ their cultures and interests. Meanwhile young native English or British people are encouraged to do the opposite. It’s their culture that is (mis)represented as the ‘problem’ and as such to be denounced and denigrated. It’s through this process that the native British are to be ‘changed’ with ethnic minorities being cynically used as the catalyst.

    There’s no doubt that what is happening to Britain and England in particular, can be classed as genocide. As researcher and writer Tony Shell says:

    “… the English are a native people – an indigenous (aboriginal) people of the British Isles.”

    Often the knee jerk, brainwashed, response to this is that this cannot be the case because we are a nation of mongrels or something suitably derogatory. This is said to be because of the influx of some Angles, Saxons, Danes, Romans and Normans in our past history. Leaving apart the fact that no other nation appears to be subject to such stringent standards let’s refer to the work of Bryan Sykes who is a Professor of Human Genetics at the University of Oxford and a Fellow of Wolfson College. His research into this area led him to the conclusion that:

    “In spite of all these later contributions, the genetic makeup of Britain and Ireland is overwhelmingly what it has been since the Neolithic period and to a very considerable extent since the Mesolithic period”.

    He summed this up in a quote from his book ‘The Blood of the Isles’, published in 2006:

    “We are an ancient people, and though the Isles have been the target of invasion and opposed settlement from abroad ever since Julius Caesar first stepped on to the shingle shores of Kent, these have barely scratched the topsoil of our deep-rooted ancestry. However we may feel about ourselves and about each other, we are genetically rooted in a Celtic past. The Irish, the Welsh and the Scots know this, but the English sometimes think otherwise. But, just a little way beneath the surface, the strands of ancestry weave us all together as the children of a common past”.

    The English, Scots, Welsh and other European peoples are very bit as much worthy of protection as any other ethnic group around the world and it’s a curious form of reverse racism that pretends otherwise.

  21. And as for the BNP, no need for any ‘anti-racists’ to worry too much for I have direct experience myself of how the ‘leadership’ deliberately undermines its potential:


    – As my investigations continued I began to find many more links between freemasonry, the World Government agenda and the control of political parties. It was around this time that I discovered a blog (now defunct) by a former BNP councilor who was now writing about New World Order related subjects. I ended up corresponding with him and found out that one of the reasons for him leaving the party was because he was convinced that both Griffin and his deputy, the press secretary Simon Darby, were state controlled. This got me thinking and I couldn’t help wondering if Nick Griffin could also, possibly, be a freemason.

    It didn’t take me long to find out that Griffin’s father Edgar was a member of the Welchpool Lodge. He had been made a Worshipful Commander in 2005 and honoured as Masonry’s ‘longest serving brother of grand rank’ in 2008 after 61 years as a freemason. In addition Edgar’s father and Nick’s grandfather, Edwin was also a mason.

    I was reminded of an observation made by Alan Watt of ‘Cutting Through the Matrix’. He describes the masonic practice of ‘grafting’ where it would take at least two generations of a family being involved with masonry before any member would be entrusted with anything of real importance.

    As I dug a little further I found alleged links to masonic accountants and even a picture of Griffin (for many more images of political figures giving masonic handshakes please click on the link) apparently giving the French leader of the Front National, Jean-Marie Le Pen, a masonic handshake.

    Nothing conclusive you might argue. But because I was beginning to understand the way those behind the New World Order operate and the significant role that freemasonry and other secret societies have, it certainly gave me more than pause for thought.

    I then came across other claims that Griffin was controlled in some way, which just added fuel to the fire. Sean Gabb of the Libertarian Alliance, in an essay about the leadership challenge of Tory Iain Duncan Smith, said that:

    “Since he became leader of the British National Party, I have taken it for granted that Nick Griffin is a controlled man. I do not know if it is details of his sex life or of his financial management that can be used against him, or if there is some other more elaborate secret that the security services have discovered and that he does not want to be revealed.”

  22. Hi folks, I haven’t been around in a while due to other commitments taking priority so it’s nice to be back.

    Firstly it has to be said that people some people do have concerns about immigration. These range from individuals not being able to come to terms with the speed of the changing cultural diversification dynamic in the Northern Ireland state, from its inception a traditionally conservative mono ethnic state, to the sensationalist immigrants are stealing our jobs / benefits/ houses/ school places/ women rubbish pedaled by the extreme right.

    Thankfully the good people of East Belfast, East Antrim & South Antrim gave their answer to such guff in 2011 when Anne Cooper, Steven Moore and Stephen Parkes were sent home with their tails between their legs.

    “ It’s all very well for some to talk of BNP being extreme. But what is Sinn Fein/IRA?”

    Oh please David, sometimes your obsession with SF seems to border on the pathological. SF are an extreme party? SF are now an establishment party whose primary concern seems to be maintaining the political status quo. Hardly what you’d call extreme.

    “ From what I see, read and hear of today’s BNP their aims are the aims of the British people”

    That’s an interesting one Marlloy. There’s a huge minority in the state of Northern Ireland who wouldn’t consider themselves to be British. What would the BNP do with these people?

    “What you must remember is that many of today’s members of the BNP are former soldiers”

    That’s a massive assumption and I’d like to see the source of your claims and even though my personal experience of the British Army is overwhelmingly negative I would paraphrase Sentinel of Liberty by saying that my maternal grandfather fought Nazi scum, he didn’t join them.

  23. Pete et al,

    No doubt the BNP, Combat 18 and their fellow travellers haven’t killed as many as the IRA. That’s simply a matter of competence rather than morals, I would have thought.

    Of course, you neatly side-step the fact that they hero-worship one of the greatest mass-murdering regimes in history…one that real British patriots fought and defeated.

  24. ‘Thankfully the good people of East Belfast, East Antrim & South Antrim gave their answer to such guff in 2011 when Anne Cooper, Steven Moore and Stephen Parkes were sent home with their tails between their legs. ‘

    No matter our political differences, across the divide, there is a modicum of common sense and decency and the BNP and their ilk are rejected by all.

    Hi Paul, nice to see you.

  25. Thanks for the welcome guys It’s nice to be back.

    Congratulations on the new Yankification Pinky give ‘Ole Glory a kiss for me.

    “The IRA interest in killing was pathological, as I recall”

    That may be how you feel David but it still doesn’t explain how SF are an “extremeist” party.

  26. Hmm. Not as easy to dismiss a criticism as it would first appear. Sinn Fein obviously has members who were complicit in terrorist activities or excused them. Of course, so do some other parties in NI. The reformation of Sinn Fein in abandoning its dance of the one veil with the IRA campaigns (although the excusing past transgressions crowd is alive and well) still doesn’t sit well with many folks who simply can’t forgive, forget or believe in the change.

    However, I don’t think the sins of the Sinn Fein crowd render the BNP reasonable. And unlike the BNP crowd, Sinn Fein had was able to achieve mainstream popularity and consensus (never more so then when they abandoned violence).

    A necessary and intesting debate.

  27. Mahons,
    It is an interesting debate.

    I would deem a party “extremist” based solely on its views. The fact that an extremist party may obtain popularity does not necessarily mean it is no longer extremist – it could mean that the population have become temporarily extreme!

    On that basis, the BNP and their ilk are about as extreme as one can get. And given their bedfellows in Combat 18 and other such groups (not to mention Europe’s experience of similar parties gaining power in the 1930s), I don’t doubt they would use extreme “action” if they ever got the opportunity.

    SF and other “liberation” nationalist parties like Batasuna, Fatah, the ANC etc may have supported paramilitarism that took innocent life and that is to be condemned, but their views, in and of themselves, are not particularly “extreme”.

  28. MourneReg – Good points. I suppose I take comfort that a group like the BNP has views that are so extreme that they don’t take with a significant segment of the population and therefore don’t result in significant harm, rather they result in fringe posturing and pronouncements.

    Some of the other groups you mention are a mixture of both legitimate and at times illegitimate means and ends, and have a mixed history because of it.

  29. “A Party headed by IRA godfathers is pretty extreme in my view”

    Really David? No doubt you’d also apply the same standard to the UUP, whose founders were armed insurrectionists, or even Likud, the natural party of rightist Israelis ?

    Both David Trimble & Reg Empey were in Bill Craig’s pseudo paramilitary Vangaurd. Does that make them “extremists”?

    Did you have any problem with the unionist electorate voting for the DUP when they were considered “extremist” and a blind eye was turned to their dalliances with the UDA, UVF, Third Force & Ulster Resistance?

    As stated above, SF are now an establishment party. Your former colleagues in the TUV are now considered more “extremist” than SF.

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