47 2 mins 10 yrs

I was delighted to see that David Cameron has ruled out the spending of even MORE taxpayers cash on the Republican cause celebre, Pat Finucane.

The family of murdered solicitor Pat Finucane have cut short a meeting with David Cameron after the prime minister failed to order an inquiry into the killing. Mr Finucane was shot in 1989 by loyalist paramilitaries at his north Belfast home. His family have long campaigned for an independent public inquiry.

However at Tuesday’s meeting, Mr Cameron proposed a review conducted by a leading QC. Speaking outside Downing Street, Pat Finucane’s widow Geraldine told reporters she felt so angry she could hardly speak. Mr Finucane’s family said they were “insulted” at the proposal for a review of the case to be led by QC Desmond DeSilva. They said they would continue their campaign for an independent public inquiry and would not participate in the review.

Now, some allege that Pat Finucane was an IRA Money man, laudering cash for the Republicam movement band. We do know for a fact that his brothers were IRA enthusiastic terrorists. But the Finucane camp claim that Pat was a noble defender of human rights even as his brothers chose to try and take human life.  There is no excuse for anyone taking his life, however, and the terrorists involved are scum. Just like Finucane’s IRA brothers. But enough cash has been lavished on the Finucane campaign, it’s time to stop.

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47 thoughts on “FINUCANE WHINGEFEST COMES TO END OF THE ROAD

  1. Caught a bit of an interview with one of the Finucane family on the Nolan show.
    Rather strange comment from him about wanting a Public Inquiry to get to the truth about what happened to his father….’and others’.

    I’ll have to listen again when its online…

  2. The family oughta get over it.

    After all, even if the Murder(s) are caught the pussie European Union would prevent them from getting the lethal injection.

    And that’s the only real justice at the end of the day.

  3. The focus on Finucane’s death and the clamour for an investigation into his death and not the murder of all victims is one of the most glaring examples of Republican hyprocrisy. The intent here is not a search for justice, because justice can not be selective. The intent here is to use the inquiry as a weapon to obtain further concessions and leverage.

  4. “Now, some allege that Pat Finucane was an IRA Money man, laudering cash for the Republicam movement band. We do know for a fact that his brothers were IRA enthusiastic terrorists. But the Finucane camp claim that Pat was a noble defender of human rights even as his brothers chose to try and take human life”

    That’s a nice bit of innuendo David does it now mean that we can imply that your former TUV colleague Alderman Jack McKee was in the UVF just because his brother Bobby was?

    “The intent here is to use the inquiry as a weapon to obtain further concessions and leverage”

    And just how would they do that and what would the further concessions & levarage be Mahons?

  5. paul – The need to appear to be “fighting oppression” gives Republicans their raison d’etre. If there is no clamouring for John Bull’s agression etc, they lose their steam and people focus on more ordinary issues (economy, housing, jobs, education etc) where the need for Republicanism becomes less.

  6. Bit of a poor showing on the “further concessions and leverage” front there Mahons.

    Watch this news clip. Cameron allegedly admits to the Finucane family that there was collusion in Finucane’s murder.

    THAT’S what they’re fighting.

  7. Paul – For the record I accept there may very well have been collusion in Finucane’s murder. It was a deplorable act. But the demands for the inquiry are made by those who wish no inquiry into other events, other murders and other killings.

    Do you not think that by selectively highlighting Finucane’s murder that the Republican crowd doesn’t have something to gain?

  8. Don’t waste your time Paul,to the unionist mind collusion only happens when it republicans and the Garda,hence all the talk about the Smithwick inquiry

  9. Who is wasting who’s time, if we are going to open up an inquiry lets open up a full blown inquiry for all of the victims, not just the ones who politics suit those who wish to have an inquiry.

  10. All of these inquiries are a waste of money none to date has produced a verdict that pleases anybody,but nothing short of jail for anyone who ever served in the British Army or RUC is going to keep republicans happy.

  11. Well firstly I don’t think that any “Republican crowd” are highlighting anything here. The calls for an inquiry have been led by the Finucane family supported by Finucane’s business partner Peter Madden. I can say this with authority because I used to work there.

    Focus groups generally tend to highlight selective cases which concern them directlty, to expect them to do otherwise is naive and unrealistic. What do you think Willie Frazer ot Jeffrey Donaldson would say if they were asked to support the Finucane case?

    The only thing that is to be gained is the official recognition that the State was involved in extra judicial killings and deliberately targetted murder – something that the infamous Belfast dogs in the street have known for years. If such an admission is inconveniant then that’s too bad, the state should have thought of that before it murdered it’s own citizens.

  12. BTW Mahons. I would fully support a a non retributive truth, (and reconcilliation?), process where ALL participants in the conflict were involved althogh I don’t think that it will ever happen as all sides have too much to lose.

  13. Paul – The call for a Finucane inquiry is not limited to the family but also by those who swim in the SF sea and put forth consistently by Republican politicians, their press organs and their supporters.

    The State should not be in the business of selective justice.

  14. Who is wasting who’s time, if we are going to open up an inquiry lets open up a full blown inquiry for all of the victims, not just the ones who politics suit those who wish to have an inquiry.

    You are talking about two different things. Firstly a truth commission to find out what happened in the past t give closure to all victims is different to a public inquiry into this mans death. An inquiry was promised then reneged on by cameron, so mahons what changed his mind, or who changed his mind?

    Secondly the main reason and difference to a review from an inquiry is that the family of the murdered man will not be able to cross examine evidence or ask any questions, just sit there and shut up and accept the result. That was never on the table. The family have a right to ask questions about the death of their father. Every family has that right, they campaigned long and hard, if you (mahons) have an issue with politics and inquiries that is not the fault of this dead mans family. All they want is what they were promised..simples.

  15. No it’s not limited to the Finucane family it’s also supported by SF politicians along with SDLP politicians, Alliance politicians, Human Rights organisations, NGO’s and eminent international members of the legal profession.

    To zero in on SF support as supposed proof of a political bias or agenda on the campaign’s behalf is somewhat disingenuous.

  16. kateyo – I presume you then support the right to cross-examination of Martin McGuiness and other IRA stalwarts so that justice can be brought to the families of IRA victims, which after all, is what they had been promised.

    Paul – I am pointing out that the campaign for the Finucane Inquiry is also politicially driven, a fact I don’t think you could or would disagree with.

  17. Do the Finucane family support and enquiry into the activities of the various Finucanes who’ve been involved in IRA violence- all his brothers, his sister in law etc? Or the claims by former IRA man Sean O’Callaghan that Pat Finucane attended IRA meetings.

  18. Well Ross as his brother’s have spent time in prison I suspect that there’s already been enquiries into their activities regarding judicial investigation.His sister in law is a new one to me will you put your money where your mouth is by naming her and substantiating the allegations?

    You undermine your yourself by using self confessed liar and murderer Sean O’Callaghan as verification.

    Mahons, I’m stating that for the principal instigators of the campaign, the Finucane family, it is not politically driven if others want to play politics with the murder that’s a matter for them to address.

  19. Ross / Mahon / Fellow travelers

    Feel free to start an inquiry into any and all republicans, I don’t know how you plan on compelling them to testify or what evidence you have besides opinions of highly biased witnesses, but spend all the time you want.

    Maybe the IRA will turn over the minutes of the army council meetings, but then again maybe not.

    There is no doubt what the IRA has done but no proof of who the exact individuals were. And short of a whole raft of DNA evidence magically procured by the DPP there never will be. There are many many unanswered questions about wht the government did and some where its all written down.

    Show us the books

  20. His sister in law is a new one to me will you put your money where your mouth is by naming her and substantiating the allegations?

    I was thinking of Mairead Farrell, although she wasn’t actually married to Seamus Finucane.

    You undermine your yourself by using self confessed liar and murderer Sean O’Callaghan as verification.

    Self confessed liar? Insofar as being an informer does require lying (because those being informed upon tend to frown upon it) yes he’s a liar.

  21. Paul – The politics of the inquiry campaign is a matter for all of us to address as any inquiry is not supposed to be for the benefit of any one family but for the entire society.

    Emerald- Excusing Republican Crimes and Only Investigating Loyalist/Government crimes is not justice. And you know that.

  22. Okay Mahons, I’ll address the political implications of the case. The state murdered one of it’s own citizens because he did his job very well. Now, I’ve outlined the campaign’s supporters above and some of them are politicans, if these politicians exploit the massive political repercussions of the state murdering innocents for their own political gain does it mean that the other members of the campaign are also tainted?

    If you think that the enormity of state sanctioned extra judicial murder is relevant to a singular family as opposed to wider society then I suspect that you’re in the wrong profession.

    Ross, as Mairead Farrell spent almost eleven years in prison I suspect that her activities were also investigated.

    O’Callaaghan alleges that he had a conversation with Danny Morrison regarding the developing peace process in Crumlin Rd prison in January 1990 – six months before the secret channels between the IRA and British Government were iniated. Morrison denies this conversation ever took place. Senior gardai have also claimed O’Callaghan’s stories to be grossly exaggerated and dismissed many of his claims.

  23. ” Excusing Republican Crimes and Only Investigating Loyalist/Government crimes is not justice. And you know that.”

    Mahons, its the “Government” part that is the problem here as you well understand. The collusion of Government and it’s agents in murder should always be investigated.

    For the record, I do not support the calls for a public inquiry or compensation.

  24. Paul – A state sanctioned murder (which I am not sure collusion of rogue elements equals state-sanction) is a concern for all. But so is the even and unbiased application of the law. Why are the Finucanes more important than other vicitims families?

  25. Who ever suggested that they were? See the second paragraph of my 3.29 above.

    Rogue elements? Brigadier Gordon Kerr, who directed Brian Nelson, one of the most prolific sectarian serial killers of the conflict, took his orders directly from the Joint Tasking and Coordination group which included Cabinet representatives.

  26. Paul – I will grant you that it is important for the state to be held to a higher standard in the ordinary course of business. But in the context of NI where there is finally peace achieved in part by the vitual amnesty given to various paramilitary groups, i do wonder if holding the past actions of state representatives to that higher standard is a productive use of state resources.

  27. That “virtual amnesty” that you speak of came with the fair amount of truth. The state has enjoyed that amnesty with it’s murky secrets intact and it’s past actions have a very definite effect on the present. As for the productive use of state resources, if the state didn’t have to be gragged kicking and screaming and didn’t block and drag it’s heels at every twist and turn, (a la Saville) the use of resources would be substantially less.

  28. Paul – I am not sure it came with a fair amount of the truth. Mr. McGuiness, for one, has indicated that those days should be put behind, at least as they relate to him.

  29. Paul McMahon –

    Good one:

    The state murdered one of it’s own citizens because he did his job very well.

    I always admire how the Brits out crowd can suddenly wave the British passport around to suit. So what do the family want? An inquiry to uncover collusion? We know there was collusion. Lord Stevens said so following his inquiry.

    Let’s put it in a way the IRA will understand: casualty of war, most regrettable, ah well, must move on and all that.

  30. Not one inquiry has comforted all sides, nor have they healed any wounds, rather each one reopens old wounds and rouses fresh resentment.

    I see nothing special about Finucane: He was murdered so were three thousand other people, most of whom don’t get the kind of media immortality he has been granted. What did the family hope to gain? they are already convinced.

  31. kateyo – I presume you then support the right to cross-examination of Martin McGuiness and other IRA stalwarts so that justice can be brought to the families of IRA victims, which after all, is what they had been promised.

    absolutely. But can you tell me who promised this to any family. And why, if it was promised was it only to the victims of IRA and not victims of state collusion or loyalist paramilitaries?

  32. “I always admire how the Brits out crowd can suddenly wave the British passport around to suit”

    Think that you’re confusing me with someone else Pete. If Finucane wasn’t a citizen in the place he lived then where was he a citizen? I’m also surprised that you admit there was collusion and that the conflict was a war. I’ll bear that in mind for future reference.

    Finucane hasn’t been granted any “media immortality” the fact of the matter is that his family have tenaciously run an effective campaign to keep his murder high profile.

  33. katey0 – there is an implicit promise of justice to all. Not to some. The failure of the British Government and its various representatives in NI during the Troubles to achieve justice for all is not denied by me.

    Part of the process, and the hardest part by my view, is having to put aside prosecution for past wrongs.

  34. Paul McMahon

    Finucane hasn’t been granted any “media immortality” the fact of the matter is that his family have tenaciously run an effective campaign to keep his murder high profile.

    Which without the oxygen of constant media attention would have gone nowhere fast. More than three thousand people were murdered.

  35. katey0 – there is an implicit promise of justice to all.Not to some

    This isn’t an ‘implicit’ justice for all issue mahons, this family had negotiated and where given to understand that an inquiry would be established. They went to Downing st yesterday on the promise of somethig big, with the expectation that an inquiry would be established. Thats why Geraldine Finucane has described the family going to downing street under these expectations to have them dashed, as ‘cruel’. It was cruel.

    Right up to the last minute, until something changed Camerons’ mind, there was the expectation of an inquiry. At least the British govt have now admitted ‘collusion’, in the murder of its own citizens. This family already turned down a judicial review years ago, to offer this now under such a public gaze was cruel in the extreme.

  36. Yes, his family have constantly kept the issue in the media.

    “More than three thousand people were murdered”

    Yes we know, some serreptitiously by the state hence the Finucane campaign.

  37. Part of the process, and the hardest part by my view, is having to put aside prosecution for past wrongs.

    But even with an inquiry there is no guarantee of prosecution. Look at Saville, how many British army personnel prosecuted after the inquiry? As the SoS said this evening, the DPP are wholly independent of government, even after an inquiry, or indeed this review it is up to the DPP to say whether or not prosecutions would take place. That is not a political decision.

    Past wrongs aren’t put aside, it’s the evidence that can’t be got to prosecute, and no closure if the perpetrators cannot speak out honestly for fear of prosecution. Thats the difficulty at the heart of trying to deal with the past here.

  38. “More than three thousand people were murdered.”

    Yes, but not by the State! That is the point. The State colluded in the whole debacle. If you accept that fact, then things look different in the light.

  39. I find it very strange that both David and Jeffery Donaldson asked for an inquiry for Billy Wright yet now are saying ” get over it”Finucane’s brothers may have been terrorists but he wasn’t, Wright WAS have been terrorists but he wasn’t, Wright WAS

  40. Paul McMahon, on October 12th, 2011 at 6:59 pm Said:
    Yes, his family have constantly kept the issue in the media.
    “More than three thousand people were murdered”
    Yes we know, some serreptitiously by the state hence the Finucane campaign.

    I’m a republican but I’m not a shinner and I don’t support the PIRA nor do I support the constant picking at old wounds. It helps no one, particularly when one side, can and justifiably say, its always completely one sided.

    Martin McGuinness is campaigning to be Irelands President, it’ll look good if he is called to be witness at some HET inquiry or other. Its time to move on, for all of us.

  41. it’ll look good if he is called to be witness at some HET inquiry or other.

    But haven’t the british government just said to the Finucane family that inquiries are too costly, so if they can’t have a public inquiry due to cost why should the HET?

  42. kateyo, on October 12th, 2011 at 7:12 pm Said:
    it’ll look good if he is called to be witness at some HET inquiry or other.
    But haven’t the british government just said to the Finucane family that inquiries are too costly, so if they can’t have a public inquiry due to cost why should the HET?

    Completely agree but if one enquiry is allowed it opens the door to all of them. Sooner or later someone has to say enough. Both sides murdered and both sides have murderers among them.

  43. The only thing that “Full Public Inquiries” serve, is the profits of the lawyers. Typical of politicians, many of whom are lawyers, to call for such. Jobs for the boys, obfuscation, its only tax payers money!

    “Full Public inquiries” will never satisfy those with closed minds.

  44. Completely agree but if one enquiry is allowed it opens the door to all of them.

    well…. I agree a line needs to be drawn under costly inquiries. But sometimes the exception proves the rule. For example if the SoS said tomorrow that a truth commission should be set up at whatever cost would you say no to it? The Finucane inquiry is effectively an inquiry into state murder/collusion. I for one would like to know did this collusion happen with the consent of those in the government. Why would I like to know that, because if it happened what difference is there between the british govt and that say of any third world dictator? It goes to the fundamental heart of what good government is all about doesn’t it?

    That is not to say this case is above all others, just that keeping its word or bond is the mark of a good government and in this case it broke its word, most likely due to the past actions of its agencies killing its own citizens either directly or by proxy.

  45. Kayeyo Oct 12 @ 7.39pm

    I’m not in favour of truth commissions. I’m not in favour of the entire truth and reconciliation industry. People suffered, most of them ordinary people who will never be told what happened or why.

    Perhaps I’m cynical but I don’t believe any government can be trusted , third world? just look at some of the headlines on ATW there’s nothing special about the Irish or British governments, would that there were!

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