31 3 mins 10 yrs

Well, I am sure you will have read the horrific details of what happened in the Belgium city of Leige yesterday?

“Police in Belgium have discovered a woman’s body at the home of a gunman who went on the rampage in the city of Liege, killing four people and himself. The body was found in a shed at Nordine Amrani’s property, a justice official told Belgian radio.

Amrani launched his attack with guns and hand grenades in a busy marketplace in Liege on Tuesday, causing panic among Christmas shoppers. Nearly 125 people were wounded, some critically. Belgian media reports say the body found at the killer’s property was that of a 45 year-old cleaner, who worked for one of Amrani’s neighbours.

“It was found in a shed which he used, notably to grow cannabis,” Liege’s prosecutor general, Cedric Visart de Bocarme, told Belgian public radio, RTBF. The authorities are trying to determine what motivated Mr Amrani to go on his killing spree.

Police have said he was known to them for previous drugs and firearms offences and acted alone in the attack.  Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo said it had been “an isolated case”.

Sure. I got into bother yesterday when I pointed out that the “Belgium” who carried out this act of mass murder was in fact a Moroccan Muslim. It appears that to be point out this sort of detail is unhelpful, although I am not sure to whom?

Belgium has an Islamic problem which is why the PM instantly seeks to cloak it.

“The attack comes a day after a Belgian court sentenced four members of a Pakistani family to prison for the murder of their law student daughter and sister in the country’s first “honour killing” trial.

After pronouncing the family members guilty for the shooting death of 20-year-old Sadia Sheikh in October 2007, the jury sentenced father Tarik Mahmood Sheikh to 25 years behind bars, mother Zahida Parveen Sariya to 20 years, brother Mudusar to 15 and sister Sariya to five years, media reported.

Lawyers for the family said brother Mudusar, who confessed to pulling the trigger on the three bullets that killed his sister, was handed a lesser jail term than his parents as they were considered to have ordered the girl’s death.”

Again, it is important that we ignore this Islamic background. So goes the dhimmi chorus. If we close our eyes to this, we make it worse. Why do western liberal democracies so fear Islam?

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31 thoughts on “HORROR IN LEIGE

  1. David,

    Much as we’d like to finger Muslims for honour killings, unfortunately they’re most certainly not the sole perpetrators. Robert Fisk filed this chilling report last year.

    It’s one of the last great taboos: the murder of at least 20,000 women a year in the name of ‘honour’. Nor is the problem confined to the Middle East: the contagion is spreading rapidly.

    A 10-month investigation by The Independent in Jordan, Pakistan, Egypt, Gaza and the West Bank has unearthed terrifying details of murder most foul. Men are also killed for “honour” and, despite its identification by journalists as a largely Muslim practice, Christian and Hindu communities have stooped to the same crimes. …

    Iraqi Kurds, Palestinians in Jordan, Pakistan and Turkey appear to be the worst offenders but media freedoms in these countries may over-compensate for the secrecy which surrounds “honour” killings in Egypt – which untruthfully claims there are none – and other Middle East nations in the Gulf and the Levant. But honour crimes long ago spread to Britain, Belgium, Russia and Canada and many other nations.”

    Did I see Belgium mentioned there? I did. Did I read the word “Christian”? I do believe I did.

  2. If there is evidence that Islamic militancy inspired this act of mass murder then of coures it is relevent to mention it. If as seems more likely in this case it was the act of a disturbed individual with personal problems then the race and religous identity are irrelevent.

  3. Why not, in the interests of transparency, gives the ethnic origins and religion of all perpetrators of honor killings and mass acts of violence like this one and then we can see which group is most likely to be responsible.

    Resources can then be targeted at the likely transgressors.

  4. No I don’t accept that this mans god delusion was irrelevant. If he was in fact a christian then it probably wasn’t a factor. Since Christianity isn’t that big on slaughtering non christians these days. Whereas Muslims are continually brain washed to go commit mass murder of khuffars in the name of jihad. They are inculcated to believe that it’s a good thing.
    I just don’t see how you can seperate the mentally disturbed from Islam, as far as I am concerned to one degree or another they are ALL ‘mentally challenged’ in one way or another.
    However that aside may I just point out yet another example of the UK’s MSM pro islam conspiracy. Compare and contrast the UK coverage of this with Anders Brievik. 24/7 news saturation coverage.

  5. Richard Clinton,

    “Nor is the problem confined to the Middle East: the contagion is spreading rapidly”

    “honour crimes long ago spread to Britain, Belgium, Russia and Canada and many other nations’

    Of course it is!, and of course it has! – did you ever think to ponder why? It has spread in direct proportion to the level of Muslim immigration.

    ‘despite its identification by journalists as a largely Muslim practice, Christian and Hindu communities have stooped to the same crimes.”

    The inclusion of ‘Christian’ in that sentence rather casts doubt on the validity of the investigation by the Independent, Yes such murders are committed in Christian communities, – but by Muslims, living within those communities. The same probably applies in Hindu communities, given both religions very different attiudes to their religion.

    “Did I see Belgium mentioned there? I did. Did I read the word “Christian”? I do believe I did.’

    Did I see the name Robert Fisk mentioned? I believe I did – surely enough to discredit any such report or investigation…

  6. “the UK’s MSM pro islam conspiracy.”

    Hardly that. I’m reminded of another MSM style of reporting, that emanating from Northern Ireland. The violence in David’s neck of the woods is very sporadic now but not so long ago it provided me with many’s a puzzle.

    It went something like this. A man would be attacked in a certain part of Belfast. The report would never offer the man’s religion or ethnic background, therefore I was left to decide whether the crime was

    1. Prod on Prod

    2. Taig on Taig

    3. Taig on Prod

    4. Prod on Taig

    5. None of the above

    It was (and still is) all a bit confusing. One had to be familiar with the area in question in order to decode the message.

    I suppose it was done to deter repercussions in the community of the attackers. I can see how this would apply to Muslim-on-Christian crime. The BNP would be leaping up on their soap-boxes toot sweet.

  7. Ernest,

    “Did I see the name Robert Fisk mentioned? I believe I did – surely enough to discredit any such report or investigation…”

    I’d have thought that Mr Fisk knows more about such matters than you or me. But if you think otherwise…

  8. This man smoked cannabis. I seem to recall a lecture I attended many, many years ago, where the effect on the brain of indulging in smoking cannabis was amply demonstrated. Since then there has been a continuing propaganda campaign to try to convince the general public that smoking cannabis is harmless or less harmful than tobacco. Some people believe this. I do not.

  9. Richard – Honor killings of daughters is hardly an ecumenical event. I don’t think you’ll get very far (unless you intend to travel without facts) in suggesting it isn’t primarily a crime that arises in Muslim family situations when it does occur.

    That doesn’t mean all Muslims do it or approve, but certainly the issue is a scourge among a portion of their populations.

  10. “the “Belgium” who carried out this act of mass murder was in fact a Moroccan Muslim.”

    Listening to the BBC world service news yesterday by way of contrasting two events.

    1. Leige incident,

    The name of the individual was withheld (during this radio item although on the Television news it had been mentioned) his ethnicity nor his religion were mentioned, the rhetorical question was, what could possibly have motivated some one to carry out such a senseless attack.

    2 Florence incident.

    Introduced by the same presenter and immediately following the Leige item:

    In Florence a gunman shot and killed three or four black street traders IN A RACIST attack! He then went on to another market and shot some more street traders before shooting himself. His ethnicity was mentioned – he was white and it was definitely a race motivated attack, although we know as much about the attacks in Florence as we do about the attack in Leige.

    So in the case of the second attack, is it possible the guy had selected his targets for reasons other than race. I have been in Florence and Rome and there are plenty of street traders selling their wares. If he was motivated purely by race hatred he could have carried on killing all the way down the street.

  11. Richard Clinton,

    Why would that be so? – he is but a reporter with a very dubious reputation for exagerration, duplicity, outright falsehood, and a political agenda.

    I have experience of living, both here and abroad, among Muslims, Hindus, and unbelievably, also among Christians, although they do appear to be few and far between.

    One only has to have lived in West London during the past fifty years to be well informed as to their habits and practices. I am sure the same might be said of many communities the further north one goes.

    One has only to read some of the posts by Andrew McCann to realise the effect that multiculturalism has had across the UK.

    I have no axe to grind, one way or another, but it does help if when quoting such articles, that some acknowledgement is made to the historic context which cause such things to occur.

    Incidentally, I think it might be almost impossible to find a reported case of an ‘honour killing’ prior to 1960.

  12. Five people killed, incl. two boys and a baby, and at this time of year – awful.

    I visit Liege often. It has a nice slightly down-at-heel patina to it that reminds of days past. A very nice place with very nice people.

    “One has only to read some of the posts by Andrew McCann to realise the effect that multiculturalism has had across the UK”

    Well, if multiculturalism is also responsible for Andrew’s outpourings here, then maybe it really isn’t such a good idea after all.

  13. The attack in Belgium was not the only attack in Europe yesterday:

    “The mayor of Florence has declared Wednesday a day of mourning in the Italian city, a day after a gunman killed two Senegalese traders. Mayor Matteo Renzi called for businesses to stop trading for 10 minutes at 1200 local time (1100 GMT). Gunman Gianluca Casseri, 50, has been linked to a far-right group, which has disassociated itself from the killings. Casseri later turned the gun on himself and was found dead in an underground car park, police said. Casseri killed two men and injured a third in Dalmazia Square before opening fire in San Lorenzo Square, wounding two.

    Italy’s President Giorgio Napolitano denounced “this blind explosion of hatred” and called on Italian authorities and society to “combat in the bud every form of intolerance and to reaffirm the tradition of openness and solidarity in our country”.

    It is utterly predictable that Rightworld declares that the Belgian killings were motivated by Islam while the Italian killings were not motivated by race. Despite the fact that the authorities take the opposite view in both cases.

  14. I’d like to see someone do the numbers of how many honor killings existed in western Europe in say the 1960s and compare them with how many have existed in the past decade.

    You import people from pathological cultures, and you import their pathologies. There is no talking around it.

    This phenomenon is just beginning. And the professional excuse makers will be making their excuses after each and every incident, even as conditions get worse and worse.

    Dublin and Belfast, that isn’t an academic story for you guys either. This is very much headed in your direction.

  15. Noel,

    ‘Well, if multiculturalism is also responsible for Andrew’s outpourings here, then maybe it really isn’t such a good idea after all.’

    I take it you meant that multiculturism wasn’t such a good idea after all! 🙂

    Could any act of govenment which raises such ire, and on such a scale, still be considered a ‘good idea’?

    Given that the success of such an idea relies on all parties signing up to the general concept, it was always a very dodgy idea, on very shaky ground from the getgo. That it was also implemented on such a large scale most certainly didn’t give it much chance of success.

    Perhaps if it had been a truly sociological idea rather than dogma ridden political experiment, it might have stood at least a small chnace of success.

  16. Peter T

    Cannibis

    Are you kidding?

    I think that the only real downside to cannibis smoking is that it generally makes you stupid and that it is bad for the lungs.

    I’d think that there is no connection between smoking reefer and violence. It suspect it makes you less violent.

  17. The incident reveal a host of problems. One, what was the waiting period, background check of this immigrant before he was given citizenship status? Two, given the fact of his gun possession conviction and wholesale drug operation, how did he serve such a short sentence. Three, he was “asked” to come in for questioning on suspicion of rape. Allow me to repeat – a convicted gun felon is invited to come to the police station on suspicion of rape. Not arrested, not picked up by police, and apparently not even surveilled.

  18. Belgium has always had a notoriously lenient criminal justice and sentencing system from the stories I have read over the years about that country.

  19. Phantom

    Actually Peter is right, for most people it is a relatively benign substance, for some it triggers recurring psychotic episodes.

    I used to have a neighbour from a “respectable” family who was regularily carted off for mental health obsevation for just this reason

    Then his dad bought him a new house and he moved away, later he killed himself

  20. I used to know a very bright and promising young lad; well-educated, shy and withdrawan but an absolute wizard at chess. He then got into smoking dope really big time; he bacame even more withdrawn and soon totally lost his concentration in chess. He then had a serious car accident and now sits around all day looking at the walls and can’t tell an Indian Defence from de fence around his garden.

  21. Peter T –

    “This man smoked cannabis. I seem to recall a lecture I attended many, many years ago, where the effect on the brain of indulging in smoking cannabis was amply demonstrated.”

    Soon after the Giffords shooting in Arizona I mentioned in here the extraordinarily high incidence of cannabis use among these spree killers. I said that time after time, usually a few days after the initial news reports, it will be mentioned that the killer was a habitual cannabis user.

    I also said that readers should bear it in mind the next time it happens. Well here we go again. We don’t for certain yet, but since Amrani was growing cannabis in a shed it might be fair to assume he often smoked the stuff.

  22. I am not sure that there is cause and effect. There are many many variables at play here.

    Just because a number of crazy people smoke dope does not mean that smoking dope makes you crazy.

  23. Mahons,

    Thank you for responding with an admirable lack of prejudice. Makes a fine contrast to certain others on this thread.

    “Honor killings of daughters is hardly an ecumenical event. I don’t think you’ll get very far (unless you intend to travel without facts) in suggesting it isn’t primarily a crime that arises in Muslim family situations when it does occur.”

    Sorry if I gave that impression; it was not intended. My understanding is that honour killings have been around since the dawn of patriarchal society. As long as some men continue to believe that they actually “own” their daughters (and wives in many cases) then this cancer will not go away.

    It’s rather unfortunate that many religions continue to promote this idea of ownership, Islam being the worst culprit.

    “That doesn’t mean all Muslims do it or approve, but certainly the issue is a scourge among a portion of their populations.”

    Yep, and we in the West have a lot to do when it comes to the abolition of arranged marriages, for in those arrangements lie the roots of honour killing. Marriage should never be about monetary gain yet that is the case in so many societies. I weep when I hear of Indian children of 4 or 5 being “promised” in marriage.

    That’s the commodification of a human being and it’s not so very different from slavery. We must be vigilant. It’s still prevalent in our societies, yours and mine, in so-called good, Christian communities.

  24. Richard – Well I think we can look at the honor killings in a present day perspective as an issue arising in our present day due primarily to a wacky and by no means isolated section of the Muslim community. I don’t think we need to deflate our criticism (and I don’t think you intended to) by comparing historical wrongs.

    Also I find my society, despite its ills, to be good, not merely so-called. Much room for improvement to be sure, but also the ability to improve.

  25. “One has only to read some of the posts by Andrew McCann to realise the effect that multiculturalism has had across the UK”

    And Robert Fish has ” a very dubious reputation for exagerration, duplicity, outright falsehood, and a political agenda”?

    “I am not sure that there is cause and effect. There are many many variables at play here”

    True Phantom. One of the variables is that long term continued cannabis use has been linked to schizophrenia.

    “Firstly, severe mental disturbances, such as momentary short-term psychosis or the long-term illness of schizophrenia, have been linked to cannabis use and especially so when cannabis use begins in adolescence. As a stimulant of the dopamine system, cannabis offers the user a pleasurable ‘high’; however, this ‘high’ can become dangerous when dopamine levels become excessive. Murray (2005) discusses the impact of early cannabis use on the developing adolescent brain and specifically dopamine receptors, indicating early cannabis use may damage these receptors permanently, leaving a young cannabis user at a much higher risk of developing schizophrenia or experiencing psychosis”

    http://www.drugfree.org.au/fileadmin/Media/Reference/DFA_CannabisPaper.pdf

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