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By ATWadmin On July 19th, 2007

I’m sorry but I just think it is entirely inappropriate to be teaching "sex education" to young kids. It’s worse than that, it’s depraved. And yet, as this link shows, that is EXACTLY what is what Democrat Presidential wannabe Barack Obama wants to see in American class-rooms, including the kindergarten.  Of course he caveats it all by saying it has to be "age appropriate" – but can someone tell me what part of sex education is appropriate for a five year old? Can’t they leave the age of innocence alone? It is for parents, not the State, to take responsibility for these issues and I see no reason WHY sex education has to havee any role in the early years. Do you agree?


  1. no people like Obamination want to program childrens thinking from as early as possible if they introduce the programing as early as they "guide" their views into the right direction, ie: Betty has two moms etc

  2. First, it is an inappropriate age for sex ed, and his attempts to disguise that he hasn’t fully thought this out by stating that it should be age appropriate without even offering any specifics won’t wash. He is pandering, pure and simple.

    Second, even if he honestly believed this is a good idea, it shows poor judgment because it shows he doesn’t understand that he’s created a stick for his opponents to hit him with.

  3. Troll- I hadn’t heard that name. Funny.

  4. isnt it a sin to talk sex with kiddies in islam ?

  5. under 9 of course….oh i see.

  6. Hi Mahons

    I agree with David here. Too early for all that.

    But Ive been thinking a lot recently about what the right age is. Last week my boys (eldest just gone 7) and I were singing "The Unicorn" (in sunny but songless Slovenia), after which he asked me why Noah "marched in the animals two by two" into the Arc. I replied that he needed two so that there’d be a next generation of each animal. "OK, but then he only had to take in a women of each to have babies later. Why did he march in a man too?"

    The 3-yr-old was also present so I didn’t feel like explaining how camels hump it and even educated fleas do it, so came out with the "to protect the women animals" line.

    Experience of other ATW fathers/mothers ?

  7. ‘But Ive been thinking a lot recently about what the right age is.’


  8. daddies who love mommies very much give them a little seed to make a baby ?

  9. Way too early!

    Who is he pandering to Mahons? Democratic voters maybe? Or just Planned Parenthood, that highly esteemed institution that’s almost universally supported by Democratic voters?


    With 6 and 8 year old boys in the house there has been the birds and the bees discussion – but it’s been a much more general thing; mommies and daddies make babies, it takes a male and female animal to make babies. When they bring the topic up we answer their questions in a simple, non-graphic way. They aren’t interested in the specifics or mechanics yet. We’ll have those talks as they’re ready.

    What they are greatly interested in is seeing how far they can pee off the balcony!

  10. Daphne,

    "What they are greatly interested in is seeing how far they can pee off the balcony2

    That’s exsctly it! Kids will loose their innocence early enough as they grow up, let them keep those golden years!

  11. Noel: My 6 year old niece asked from the back seat of the car after a trip to the pool why women wear bikini tops when they swim. Her six year old brother answered it was "to cover their boobies" followed by "but who wants to look at boobies when you are swimming?"
    We intend to remind him of that statement when he is sixteen and his interest, ahem, increases.

    I suggest it is appropriate for the parents to deal with such discussions in the early years.

  12. >>they are greatly interested in is seeing how far they can pee off the balcony<<

    >>That’s exsctly it! …let them keep those golden years!<<


  13. as a father of two girls 7 & 10 the appropriate age is when a) they get out of the convent, b) when they are 30, or c) when I’m dead….

    That being said we have already had the discussion in varrying degrees with both of them. It is the parents job NOT the schools.

  14. I totally agree, this is much too early.

  15. I agree that this is the parents’ job, but I’m surprised that Noel didn’t give a straight answer to his son’s question. In my experience kids aren’t really interested in knowing the … ahem … ins and outs of these matters before a certain age (each kid being individual) but there’s no harm in putting in place the framework for that knowledge, especially when they’re asking.

  16. I think that formal sex education classes is a bit much for this age group but I still think that shildrens questions should be abswered truthfully in terms that they can deal with, whether it is where babies come from or where the picture on the TV comes from.

    My parents main roblem with this was that they were so inconsistant and never seemed to rememeber what they had told me or what the other one had. So apparantly I cam about by the stork, the doctor’s wee black bag, my mother getting me from the hospital and "your father planted a seed in the garden". The latter, although it could be deemed to have truth on its side was potentially dnagerous as my father was a very keen garden and was very free with seedlings and cuttings for friends and family!!! I did use to have a wee look uder the cabbage patch (as this was referred to from time to time), just in case there was a wee brother or sister to be found.

    My brother fared a wee bit better regarding birth if not conception. When he was about three a cow was calfing and there were some neighbours and the vet (Mr Johnston) assembled and my father thought that my brother should have the opportuntiy to witness the birth. Later my mother asked him how it had all gone and how my brother had handled it. My Dad said that he had asked how babies got born. My Mum was very curious as to how this was handled. My Dad’s relply was "I told him – the same way as the wee calf, but Dr Mc Brien is there instead of Mr Johnston!"

    Apparnatly Noel Coward was asked by a child who saw two dogs sniffing, what they were doing. His answer "the dog in front has just gone blind and his friend is pushing him to St Dunstans (which deals with blind exservice personnel)

  17. Excellent post Aileen – lol!

  18. I think 5 is probably pointless more than anything. Sex education isn’t like maths where you need to constantly be practicing and learning new things. A few lessons is all you really need to learn about puberty and safe sex (I believe pregnancy and conception is part of the science syllabus).I think an age just before puberty is fine so kids know what’s going to happen before it happens. At 5 many probably won’t remember the details so the time would be better spent on something else.

    Perhaps a scheme like the "don’t talk to strangers" one might be useful to let kids know that when uncle Bobby starts doing certain things you need to tell someone though. Perhaps not a good idea to leave that one solely to parents, as they are often the abusers.

  19. Ahem just realised that:

    "Sex education isn’t like maths where you need to constantly be practicing and learning new things"

    Might be taken the wrong way. I meant things like puberty and safe sex, not sex in general! 😛

  20. What is this "innocence" of which many speak? Innocence of the world? Innocence of human beings?

    Isn’t it incumbent on parents and minders to teach children about the world and their place in it? Anything else we’d like to keep our children "innocent" of?

    How about mythical deities? Or is it OK to fill their sweet little heads with all that?

  21. Let’s see. Kindergarten, eh? I think that the limit of their curiousity at that point was, ‘What is that thing on Johnny, and how come I don’t have one?’

  22. Monica,

    check this out, slightly different issue but awful nonetheless. Does this kind of stuff happen down your way?


  23. Monica,
    Thank you for identifying an age-appropriate sex education topic for a five-year old. You have added dignity to this discussion.

    Richard Carey,
    I am confused by your link. Are you asking if there are lawyers in Philadelphia that defend people accused of child abuse? My guess would be yes.

  24. Alan,

    if you look at the link you will find terrible examples of children being taken from their parents for no good reason, and gross violations of constitutional rights by an anti-family federal agency, in ways that would bring a smile to Pol Pot.

  25. Richard,

    I’ll have to look at it later. Off to work now. My quick response is that family law is a state not federal domain here in the USA.

  26. Alan,

    I think there is a federal dimension. In any case the website is for a group in Massachusettes (however you spell it) and hence my question to Monica!

  27. Richard,

    When I look further at the site you linked, the only "federal" connection is a further link to the John Birch Society. Looking further afield, I find that the lawyer who runs the site is not well thought of by his former clients (see Lawyer: Gregory Hession).

    I’m going to pass the ball to Mahons to discuss the federal (or lack thereof) implications of family law. My own dim memory only remembers something called the "Happy Pappy" statute that enabled ex-wives to enforce child support orders across state lines.

  28. Aileen: great comment. I loved the story about Noel Coward.

    Alan: you are correct family law is a mainly a state run issue, but of course federal and municipal agnecies can enter the mix.

  29. Incidently, one of the New York daily papers suggested Obama’s sex education in kindergarden might be entitled The Kermit Sutra. I wish I had come up with that.

  30. Mahons,

    I cannot think of a specific Federal Agency that would enter the mix at the level of "children being taken from their parents for no good reason" can you?

  31. Alan
    Do the group Dads and Daughters generally get a good write up in the US?

  32. Alan: No. I am not familar with any such agency or even accusation that one is engaged in such a practice.

  33. Alan,

    I carry no brief for the guy, and you’re right that it is a state issue. There was a quote from a federal official, but I can’t find it now.

  34. Alison,

    I will admit that I never heard of Dads and Daughters. Went to their web site and they seem like a good group, but I’ve seen no press or other media coverage.

    My two step-daughters were both in Girl Scouts and both have a continuing and close relationship with their father and with me, but we’re more do-it-yourself dads. For example, Bridget is away for the summer (teaching English in China) and before she left we all went out for dinner including her dad and her dad’s mother. Also, I’m driving her car while she’s away, and this evening I’ll take it to her dad’s so he can work on the breaks.

  35. Richard, I am unsure why Mahons or Alan wouldn’t confirm to you that child welfare agencies wield entirely too much power.

    I have seen dozens of examples of these agencies all over America stepping over the line to seize kids who don’t need to be seized. Texas seems to administer an agency that commits especially egregious acts.

    Americans need to be educated in their constitutional rights when it comes to dealing with these agencies, as the pukes who work for them will demand entry to your home without a warrant – often bringing the police to back them up.

    One thing that has caused me to take such a dim view of these agencies is that there are thousands of children who actually NEED protection – yet fall through the cracks. Quite often you will read of a child tortured to death who was supposedly under the protection of child services. One child in Florida had actually been missing for almost a year, was on the child protective services list of children at risk, but the social workers in charge of her case were falsifying records saying that they had seen and talked to her when they had not. They still haven’t found this kid.

    Do we trust a government social agency to do a job right?? We never can. Ever.

  36. Monica,

    too true.

  37. Monica: Please read the exchange again. I was asked about federal as opposed to state agencies, not the power of any agency that deals with children.

    As for the agencies in question, what is the alternative? For every case where they may have overstepped, there are cases where they failed to take action. Either way the children are the real victims.

  38. Mahons,

    and the parents who have their children taken for no good reason.

  39. Richard -of course.

  40. Mahons doesn’t want to talk about THAT, Richard. Too uncomfortable. Too difficult to face.

    I understand, Mahons, that you made this into a federal vs. state question. I do not believe that to be the point of Richard’s inquiry.

    Of course we want to protect children – the vast majority of us do. Where was child protective services in Collingdale, PA last year? For that matter, where were the damn police to enforce the laws against child abuse? Children were sexually abused – even tiny babies – in a rowhouse daycare for a long time. For a long time, neighbors reported hearing children screaming and being hurt to the police. NOTHING was done. NOTHING. Oh fine – the police chief is now in a lot of trouble – so what?? How is that going to help those kids?

    The child protective service was too busy harrasing good parents, whose children were in no danger.

  41. The parents of healthy families AND their children are being made victims of this program, Mahons.

    It’s not just the children who are victims.

  42. In any case, child protective services are stepping on citizen’s constitutional rights. This has to be stopped.

  43. "The child protective service was too busy harrasing good parents, whose children were in no danger "
    for home schooling and creationsim i bet……

    this idea, given the advance of sexual ethics in the eu has wider conitations,the rendering of sexual conversation with kids ‘untabbo’ can only have so many consequnces, and when we look to he protestations of those who proceeded us on this path and their demands for " sexual liberty for children" and indeed enforced transvestism in state schools, those consequnceses are obvious.

    sexual liberty and marxist deconstruction share a gfreater link than many realise,
    aldous huxley’s brave new world would be a good source of a mature view on this.

  44. Mahons,

    My apologies for dragging you into this non sequitor argument. You answered the question I asked and caught hell for it. Sorry.

  45. Monica: Are you reading before you write?

    I was asked a question by Alan if the agencies involved were federal or state, and I advised state. That is it, I didn’t try to make the question.

    I agreed with him that parents can also be victims in this (see my 4:30 comment in response to Richard).

    Parents can also be the villains, which is why we have child protective agencies in the first place.

  46. Richard: Not to worry. Monica is apparently still sore from the Phillies 10,000th loss.

  47. Alan
    Thanks for the thoughful response! You always strike me as a pretty knowledgeable chap so I thought Id put the question to you. Its relevance to this post is small. I discovered the group by chance in an article from the First Post. They talked about them as a pressure group successful in stopping the lanuch of a new Bratz doll I believe – which i thought was quite incredible! They seem pretty straight down the line to me.

  48. I wouldn’t stop the sale of any doll, to each his/her own. but the Bratz dolls are little hookers and not appropriate for little kids

  49. The girls have a couple of Bratz dolls – I just think they’re strange. Their feet come off and they end up with little stumps. All of the Bratz dolls are now double-amputees. Poor things.