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ISLAM AND SUNSHINE….

By ATWadmin On July 21st, 2007

nikab.jpgHere’s a strange story. Muslim women who wear the hijab are at risk of serious illness because they do not get enough sun, doctors have warned. They said an alarming number of women who cover their skin are suffering bone deficiencies over a lack of vitamin D. Most of the body’s vitamin D – which prevents rickets – is obtained through sunlight acting on the skin. Only a little comes from food. Doctors told a London conference today that people with dark pigment are at risk because of "cultural reasons" and because they are less efficient at producing the vitamin. The bone disorder rickets has now broken out in young Muslim children as babies are not getting enough calcium from mothers’ breast milk.

But here’s a response to this from someone who claims to be "a Muslim female health professional who works for the NHS and pays a lot of taxes let me get some things straight with you.

1. Hijaab (modesty) is a religious requirement
2. Muslim women in other countries do not encounter this problem
3. Treating Vit D deficiency is not expensive at all
4. Muslim women work, pay taxes and contribute towards the NHS
5. My taxes also pay for treating smoking/drinking related illnesses. As a Muslim who does not drink or smoke I could moan about my taxes paying to treat such problems – but I have more sense and intelligence to do so
6. There are many Western women on Vit D/Calcium suppements. This problem is not limited to Muslim women."

So, there you have it. The NHS says that Muslim ladies need to drop the mask of Islam, but Muslim ladies who work for the NHS say no thanks!

I say – ban all Islamic garb unless it is in day-glo colours.

56 Responses to “ISLAM AND SUNSHINE….”

  1. Why is this woman moaning aboutpaying for something that is not even available free on the NHS?

    Is it possible to get any vitamins on the NHS? I don’t think so. I know for a fact (blush) that women cannot get treatment for the menopause (except HRT) on the NHS. All supplements such as black cohosh used to treat symptoms of the menopause are not available on the NHS. Any vitamin treatments provided for anyone are usually not paid for by the NHS, that I know of. Since I pay for prescriptions I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.

    There are so many drugs out there not provided free, the postal lottery of women who need breast cancer drugs and are having to go to court, yet the muslim women want vitamin supplements on the NHS for a self imposed deficiency.

    Get real FFS!

  2. This is just another example of the Muslim mindset that insists on "Do it for me, I am a Muslim and a Victim and incapable of doing it myself". It doesn’t matter whether the "it" in question is evicting the native Slavic population from Kosovo, or Bosnia (where they got NATO to do their dirty work for them), or running their dietary laws in the UK (where for instance Tower Hamlets Council consider it their duty to ensure that the Halal claim is properly verified), or providing male circumcision for the sons of believers (where the East London Mosque has run a campaign to have it provided free of charge on the NHS because the "poor Muslims" can’t afford to pay a competent surgeon, and the Islamic "Community" won’t organise it themselves).

    After all, as they cannot see any legitimate difference between their religion and the state, why shouldn’t the state meet their every need? But I’d better stop here, otherwise I might launch into … … [passage deleted by commenter]

  3. It would appear that writing a prescription by the doctor for vitamin supplements is discretionary to the doctor, however the payment of prescriptions is dependent on the circumstance of the patient. This could be a major drain on resources in some muslim heavily populated areas.

    Rickets is making a comeback. If any one saw the panorama programme where 2 white children were taken into care because of abuse, where bones were fractured etc. In sum it wasn’t abuse but rickets,the children were never returned, they’d been adopted.

    Its a clear choice for these women, either abandon your bedsheets in the interests of your own health and that of your children, or deplete resources for the rest of us.

  4. Onwards with the ricketts!

  5. Did any of you see the story on last nights BBC Ulster about the Roma family living on a round about on the M3 into Dublin, near Ballymun. They are living in tents but say it is better than home. Their welfare groups want the govt to give them accomodation. This is why they came. They want stuff handed to them.

  6. On the matter of muslims in this country, I’m engaging Frank on whether there are any benefits to the country exclusive to muslims as opposed to,say, Buddhists or Sikhs.

    Frank, like so much of the left, will call anybody racist and will change his definition to suit. Let us look at a sequence of comments which allows me to define Frank as a dissimulator.

    1. I state my strong prefernce for the UK to remain a predominantly white country.
    2.Frank says that’s racist.
    3. I ask Frank for his definition of ‘racism’.
    4. Frank says that it’s "the dictionary definition"
    5. I ask Frank for the reference of the dictionary.
    6. Frank declines to provide the reference – but does provide some infantile abuse
    7. I check around several dictionaries for a definition of racism which would cover the strong prefernce to keep the predominant ethnicity of my country as that of the indigenous people
    8. I fail to find such a definition into which the ‘example’ cited by Frank would fall.
    9. I conclude that Frank has made it all up.
    10. Frank replies that he did not define racism but cited my views as an example.
    11. I state that if a definition of racism is not forthcoming yet an example is cited, then the definition must concur with the example otherwise the example cannot be cited as an example.
    12. Frank posts more abuse.
    13. Aileen chips in with "An example of racism is not a definition of it" but fails to grasp that an example must fall within the definition, otherwise it is not an example.
    14. Still no reference

    I attempt to engage with the leftist known as Frank. I put straight-forward, simple questions to him in order to determine the basis of his views, and he refuses to engage. Questions from others such as what would I call a black man who wants the country to become predominantly black (A – a colonialist) are answered. Frank asks why I distrust arabs (A- their doctrine permits lying and obfuscation in order to conquer) are answered. Frank did ask:

    "So cut the crap Allan. If the UKs borders were sealed tomorrow and if in 1000 generations time it just so happened that the population were 60% black, explain why would that be a problem?"

    Well, Frank, you’re asking me about a hypothetical situation set at least two thousand (2,000!) years in the future yet you cannot answer simple, direct questions about the here-and-now. The answer to that ‘question’ is that it wouldn’t be a problem: I’d be dust as would my descendants for as long as I can foresee.

    Now, Frank. Would you please state what benefits exclusive to muslim migrants we (the British nation) get from the presence in our country of said muslims?

  7. Allan

    where else are you going to post this?

    my answer from where you did it before :-

    "13. Aileen chips in with "An example of racism is not a definition of it" but fails to grasp that an example must fall within the definition, otherwise it is not an example."

    She fails to understand nothing.You were trying to make out that Frank had supplied a definiton. He didn’t. You seem to fail to grasp that an an example that fits a defintion is not by that token, the actual definition.

  8. Andrew open up your comments

  9. Aileen: "You were trying to make out that Frank had supplied a definiton. He didn’t."

    That’s the problem: he didn’t, and wouldn’t, because he couldn’t! I have a suggestion – why don’t you ask Frank to provide a definition of racist into which the example he cites (my stated preference for the UK’s population to remain predominantly white) would fall?

    In the absence of a declared definition, only the cited example can be the basis of the definition. Would you agree with that?

    The reason why I’m keeping this thread going is that I have noticed that Frank responds with insults and abuse whenever his ‘arguments’ are challenged. I recently showed mahons doing exactly the same by calling Guardian Apostate "a moron" even though GA posted his comment in mild and unthreatening terms. Then the thread falls off the page and Frank is free again to throw his invective around.

    This time, I’ll ensure that Frank’s writings will be used against Frank and this thread will endure.

  10. No Allan the problem was that you were trying to make out that he had and picked up quotes to try and show that he had but was denying it.

    An example of 3 as a Natural number is not a basis for a defintion of Natural numbers.

    If you want to ensure that anyone’s writings are held agaisnt them, it is best to stick to what they have written and what can be logically extrapolated (not presumed) from what they have written.

  11. Andrew Mccann.

    ‘On with the ricketts’ was pretty much what I thought too.
    If vitamin D deficiency means your bones can’t take jumping up and down in the streets anymore, then that sounds like a fair trade-off to me.

  12. Sat round a table last night with 6 people, two Italians, two Danish and two English. The chief subject of the night was about in their parlance ‘the Musulmen’ and how anxious these unwelcome immigrants were to take advantage of their generosity. Interestingly, the Danes said they thought their government was at last fighting back and telling them no deal.

  13. OK Aileen. Frank was asked on several occasions to provide a definition of racist into which my statement would fall: he would not do so. But he still continued to cite my statement as racism even though he would not provide a definition. Because he would not provide the definition but continued to cite the statement as an example, then it may be reasonable to take the statement as the basis of the definition, given that no definition was forthcoming.

    The ‘definition’ would then be that "a stated preference for a country to retain a population comprising a predominant number of the indigenous racial group is racist": that can be derived directly from Frank’s cited example (and you may feel free to derive your own). I know of no reference which has that or a similar definition of racism.

    "An example of 3 as a Natural number is not a basis for a defintion of Natural numbers"

    BUT

    An example of 3 as a prime number IS a basis for a definition of prime numbers: divisible only by one and itself.

  14. Allan

    I don’t believe that your statement above re the desire for a nation to remain largely made up of a partciular race is racist. Expressing a preference based on traditional historic norms is perfectly acceptable and I am sure most people in countries all over the world would hold the same view. Racism to me would be defined by how you treat racial groups who do live in the country regardless of that view. If you decided to deliberately make life uncomfortable to all non-white people who are living here legitimately in the hope of forcing them out that would be racist but I do agree that simply wanting Britain to continue being a largely white nation is not a definition of being racist.

  15. Allan

    That is not a defintition that can be derived from anything that Frank said. If it is anythign it is a example of somehtoing that might fit within it.

    3 is not the basis of a defintion of prime numbers, it is again merely an example. If I said that 3 was a prime number, you couldn’t logically say that I was defing prime numbers as those which are 3.

  16. Colm, naturally I would agree. In my little world, I have several non-white friends and colleagues, some of whom are British or fully assimilated and their kids are British, and others who are Indian (Hindu) and Iranian. By stating a simple preference for Britain to remain predominantly white, I merely mirror my Indian colleague’s preference for India to remain mainly Hindu.

    Aileen, in the absence of anything else, the example can be the only basis of the definition unless another example or even a definition were forthcoming from the person who doesn’t like to be challenged. Why don’t you ask Frank to provide a definition so that I don’t have to extrapolate one?

    From examples, one can build the definition. 3 is a prime number, divisible only by itself and 1. That simple basis defines all subsequent prime numbers and was derived from only one number – 3!

  17. Allan

    Why should I ask him, my beef is not with any of his arguments

    From examples alone you cannot build the defintion unless your list of examples is complete.

    Prime numbers are those whole numbers which are only divisible (with a whole number as a result) by itself and one, excluding one itself. 3 is merely an example and the defintion is complete without it. BTW it isn’t the smallest prime number, 2 is.

  18. BTW it isn’t the smallest prime number, 2 is.

    Indeed, Aileen, and I’m pretty sure that I already knew that, but you did put in 3 so why would I want to pick a little bone like that.

    You also wrote:
    "That is not a defintition that can be derived from anything that Frank said. If it is anythign it is a example of somehtoing that might fit within it."

    Fit within what, Aileen? A definition? But in the absence of a declared definition, the example is all there is and it can only be the (makeshift) definition until and unless Frank provides one.

    Would you consider my statement to be racist?

  19. Hannah..11.00am
    "Is it possible to get vitamins on the NHS?"

    That depends on who you are…during a recent spell in hospital, the non-English speaking young muslim woman in the next bed was asked via her interpreter whether she was on any prescribed drugs….the answer was (via her interpreter) yes, multivitamins to aid pregnancy…she was duly supplied with a box of the said "medication".

  20. Allan

    The 3 thing was a BTW and you mentioned "That simple basis defines all subsequent prime numbers and was derived from only one number – 3" which doesn’t make snece to me especially the last phrase.

    No the example is just an example and is not a defintion. the defintion you created out of it was yours. I wouldn;t ahve a problem with you asking Frank what the definition was or whether your extrapolation was the defintion he was working with, you posted his comemts to try and show that he was contradicting himself when he said that he had not supplied a defintion, when he wasn’t.

  21. Allan

    And yes Allan I consider your statement to be racist. Why should anyone care whether England or any country should have a particular racial make up?

    I can see people wishing to preserve cultural identity, their religion, there political outlook but why race?

  22. Aileen, we agree that Frank did not provide a declared definition of racism but he did write that my statement was an example of racism.

    I asked for a definition and he wrote that his definition was the dictionary definition.

    I asked which dictionary and he would not respond.

    Thus we have no declared definition in which to put the example.

    So, the only basis for a definition of racism is the example. But this would be solved if Frank were to provide a definition.

    I then suggested that you ask him for a defintion of racism which would encompass the example but you wrote:
    "Why should I ask him, my beef is not with any of his arguments

    From examples alone you cannot build the defintion unless your list of examples is complete."

    So, it appears that you don’t want Frank to provide a definition of racism. Why not?

    "

  23. Allan

    I have no particular reason to want him to.

  24. Very interesting story. One of the theories of why Northern Europeans developed white skin has to doe with vitamin D.

    As our ancestors moved out of Africa some 60,000 years ago, the further north they went the less sun they got, which means the less Vit. D their bodies produced. Hence through natural selection only those with lighter skin survived.

  25. OK, Aileen, we’ll agree to disagree. frank will be back some time soon so I’ll keep asking him.

  26. Allan@Oslo,

    [to Aileen]
    "So, it appears that you don’t want Frank to provide a definition of racism. Why not?"

    Probably because she’s not an ignoramus and already knows what racism is, like everyone here. Certainly if anyone has doubts, a dictionary is never far away.

    "I’m engaging Frank on whether there are any benefits to the country exclusive to muslims as opposed to,say, Buddhists or Sikhs."

    No you’re not, since I’ve already dealt with that question (I believe it was weeks ago), you’re simply spamming every thread by copying and pasting the same crap that has been discredited on every other thread you posted it on.

    So why don’t you open the bidding by telling us what benefits to the country are exclusive to racist spamming asshats like you?

  27. Allan@Oslo wrote:

    "Frank, like so much of the left, will call anybody racist"

    List two people that I have called racist. Be sure to provide a quote and a link, unless you are lying.

    I will start you off:

    1) Allan@Oslo is a racist.

  28. Frank, what should be done with or to ‘racists’?

  29. Allan

    I agree with Colm that wanting the country to remain predominantly white is not necessarily racist. But how do you feel about Polish immigrants to the UK?

  30. Lumping immigrants from various countries into simplistic groups such as ‘white’ and ‘black’ is extremely unhelpful. The use of colours, such as black, as descriptive words when discussing issues of race, culture and immigration seems more popular among ethnic minorities (Blink, Black Police Officers Association etc) and the left. I rarely think of myself in terms of the colour of my skin. I sometimes wonder if it’s popular because it’s easier to brandish the racist card if you oppose any aspect of the multicultural agenda.

    I want Britain to remain predominantly native British. The fact that due to the history and geography of these islands the native British have light coloured skin is irrelevant. I also suspect that’s what Allan@Oslo would prefer and I don’t consider him a racist because of it.

    Although I’d be relaxed with a modest level of immigration I don’t include the followers of Islam in that. I’ts a violent and dangerous cult founded by a mass murdering paedophile with an appalling attitude to women and non believers. That some people on this thread are prepared to defend massive levels of immigration without being prepared to suffer it’s worst consequences is indefensible.

  31. Charles,

    "As our ancestors moved out of Africa some 60,000 years ago, the further north they went the less sun they got, which means the less Vit. D their bodies produced. Hence through natural selection only those with lighter skin survived."

    Tosh! Every pic I’ve seen of Adam and Eve shows them with pale skin. The Garden of Eden was in Mesopotamia, a vast distance from northern Europe.

    So there goes your theory.

  32. Dawkins

    I have heard the theory that we were all origionally black too.

    those pics of Adam and Eve arn’t real you know ;o)

  33. Peter, the huge number of Poles arriving into the country is driving wages for the indigenous working class down, and this must be reversed. I don’t see why hundreds of thousands of people from any country should be allowed to wander into the UK and undercut the wage rates of our own workers. The fact that the Poles are white has no bearing on this at all.

  34. Frank, how old are you?

  35. Yesterday, Saturday, Allan@oslo posted the following lie, one of several that he has posted.

    ""Frank, like so much of the left, will call anybody racist"

    Since he was called on this (which may no longer be his most recent lie) he has failed to provide any support for it, but has instead posted further bullshit.

    This of course will come as no surprise to those who are familiar with Allan@Oslo’s lack of integrity. I predict that he will once again fail to support his lie, and will fail once more to name even one other person that I have called a racist.

  36. Frank, you’re correct and I apologise.

    How old are you?

  37. Allan@Oslo,

    "Frank, you’re correct and I apologise."

    That’s great Allan. If I have time I may revisit some of your earlier lies another day and see if I can shame you into apologising for those too.

    However really what you ought to do in my view is stop lying, stop asking silly questions of your betters, stop wasting everyone’s time, and move on to address the ridiculous and racist views you hold.

  38. LOL Allan and Frank still battling it out.

  39. Interesting debate, but it appears to me that Allan has won. Frank, you need more meat to your arguments – you are simply coming out with rhetoric and no substance. To me that indicates that you hold your views out of habit and stubborness.

  40. And Allan I commend you for not resorting to abuse – Frank unfortunately you are scraping the barrel with your abuse and name-calling.

  41. ""Interesting debate, but it appears to me that Allan has won."

    So you think that Allan has "won" by being caught lying and apologising for it when called on it? LOL!

    If you say so Malcolm/Allan.

  42. Frank, I ‘apologised’ in order to put you in a good mood to see if you would answer a question to which you would probably know the answer i.e. how old you are.

    The reason why I wish to know your age is that whenever you ‘debate’, you immediately resort to abuse, name-calling and insults – all quite direct and none of it delivered with the wit of an intelligent, mature adult. Moreover, the term ‘moron’ appears quite frequently and it is rather popular amongst pimpled youth.

    On the matter of naming people ‘racist’, I stated my preference for the population of this country to remain predominantly white. You declared such a view to be ‘racist’ but refused to provide a source for a definition of racist into which my belief would fall. Others on this site opined that my belief was not racist, or mocked your terminology:

    Allan@Oslo –

    Oh dear, looks like I’m a racist too. It’s all off a duck’s back though; liberals have been calling me a racist, for advocating the mass expulsion of muslims from Britain, since the 1980s. I’d be worried if he ever agreed with me.

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 01:07PM | Pete Moore
    I think a lot of ‘foreign’ people are mean and lazy and cause problems.

    can i be racist too ?

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 01:12PM | juan

    Allan@Oslo..

    i’m a racist, and so’s my wife !

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 08:51PM | gudone

    Frank – is this the level of debate we can expect from ‘leftworld’. Shout racist as often as possible then refuse to debate detailed information when it’s put to them?

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 01:18PM | Guardian Apostate

    could we have your definition of racist frank ?

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 01:35PM | juan
    Juan,

    Dictionary definition. Certainly someone who is obsessed with the numbers of whites in the country, and doesn’t trust arabs is a racist, if anyone is. Don’t you agree?

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 01:39PM | Frank O’Dwyer

    WHICH DICTIONARY, FRANK???

    We’ll simplify things a bit Frank to fit your limitations. Who else, apart from me, is a racist on this site?

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 02:17PM | Allan@Oslo

    Count me in, I’m a racist. At least by Frank’s rather dubious definition I am.

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 02:31PM | Guardian Apostate

  43. Allan@Oslo,

    "whenever you ‘debate’, you immediately resort to abuse, name-calling and insults "

    I would advise you not to lie about easily checked facts, however do as you wish. You have little credibility left to lose.

    I notice that you have done as I predicted, and failed to support the lie that you insincerely apologised for.

    Instead you have posted new lies, which I know you will also fail to support, and which I will immediately disprove should you attempt it.

  44. Frank, how old are you?

  45. Make allowances for the fact that Allan is a moron as well as a racist.

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 01:57PM | Frank O’Dwyer

    please, if you want us to take your anti-hate stance seriously, don’t use abusive terms like moron, I think Alan has some good points and responds faithfully and honestly in debate.
    I think I’ve plagiarised him on occasion, so what does that make me ?

    what about my other question ?

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 02:11PM | juan

  46. I will link to a post from another debate where I do not immediately call Allan@Oslo a moron (after all there is no need to labour the point, which I think is implicit in most things that he writes):

    So this is the proof that I said I would provide.

    I could instead have chosen any of hundreds of posts. I think Allan@Oslo probably knew that when he chose to lie about it, for reasons best known to himself.

    In passing I will also note that having demonstrated himself a racist and a liar on several occasions, Allan@Oslo now demonstrates hypocrisy by engaging in the sort of personal attacks he complains about. Perhaps he hopes this will distract from his racism and his lies.

  47. how anyone can possibly think maintaining a white predominance is not racist is quite beyond me.

    maybe allan can explain otherwise?

  48. Tell me daytripper, do you think that maintaining a black predominance is racist? I’m thinking of Africa.

    How about Japan – do you think that the Japanese are racist by maintaining an oriental (exclusive) preponderance is racist?

  49. Racism, lies, moron – all part of FOD’s blogging vocabulary.

    And this is the equivalent of shrieking and wailing:

    " So why don’t you open the bidding by telling us what benefits to the country are exclusive to racist spamming asshats like you?"Saturday, July 21, 2007 at 08:04PM | Frank O’Dwyer

    Frank, how old are you?

  50. "Racism, lies, moron – all part of FOD’s blogging vocabulary."

    Allan would prefer to promote his racist views and have nobody call them or him racist.

    Allan would prefer to lie and have nobody prove him a liar.

    Allan would prefer to post idiocy and have nobody notice he’s a moron.

  51. Guys,

    Attacking each other gets us nowhere. Stick to the issue, which as I recall, was the effect of Muslims living with a head tent and the accompanying reduction of exposure to sunlight!

  52. Certainly David. Would you request of Frank that when a question is put to him he make an attempt to answer it? he won’t answer any questions put not just by me, but by anybody. That being so, how does debate thrive in the absence of questions AND answers.

  53. Frank: Enjoyed your responses to the Oracle of Oslo. He lies, apologises for the lie and then backtracks off his apology. Then he wants to know how old other people are?

    David: Interesting topic in the post. I tend to dress in a quasi-hijab when I go to the beach (even when sitting under an umbrella) because I burn so easily. As for Muslim women who wear it for religious reasons, I suppose they have the right to dress as they feel in their private lives. If there is a real health issue, perhaps they should consider some modification as the importance of one’s wellbeing should trump some rule about dress (for example, we fast during Lent in my faith, but the elderly, infirm and little children are exempt. it just makes common sense).

  54. Tell me daytripper, do you think that maintaining a black predominance is racist? I’m thinking of Africa.

    How about Japan – do you think that the Japanese are racist by maintaining an oriental (exclusive) preponderance is racist?

    what are you on about? those are natural majorities. youre talking about forced domination. ie you have more rights than others based solely on your race. that is racism, pure and simple. regardless of whether its in japan, africa or the UK.

    you cant see that, likely because of the reason frank states.

  55. Daytripper, the preponderance of whites in the UK is a natural majority no different than that of blacks in Nigeria and orientals in japan. I’m not quite sure where "more rights than others based solely on your race" comes from but I’d be grateful if you would tell me.

    Colm put it well: (Is Colm racist?)

    If you decided to deliberately make life uncomfortable to all non-white people who are living here legitimately in the hope of forcing them out that would be racist but I do agree that simply wanting Britain to continue being a largely white nation is not a definition of being racist.

    Saturday, July 21, 2007 at 02:19PM | colm

  56. sounds wonderful as a theory allan. and i take it you will be retracting your calls for mass expulsion of muslims?

    or is your elevated right to remain in the UK somehow different?