58 3 mins 14 yrs

Firefighters run into burning buildings knowing that it’s their duty to risk their lives for others and follow orders, but some question if marching in a Gay Pride parade should fall under that solemn oath.

Four San Diego firefighters lashed out last week against the city’s fire department with a sexual harassment complaint after being forced to attend the parade in uniform despite objections they made to superiors.The firefighters claim parade attendees made obscene gestures, uttered inappropriate remarks and displayed lewd behavior that made them uncomfortable. They also demanded a work environment without discrimination and harassment.The four men allege they were ordered by a battalion chief to attend last month’s parade and feared consequences for failure to do so, since refusing to follow a direct order constitutes disciplinary action.

 

Similar situations have arisen in the UK as the militant gay lobby seek to force those who work in the State Sector to support their "cause".  The thing that I find odd is WHY there have to be any "Gay Pride" parades? I mean we don’t have "Heterosexual Pride" marches, maybe we should? Maybe gays should be forced to turn out and cheer on those who are straight? But maybe not! Why is one’s sexuality to be a matter of such overt public display? As you know I do not agree with the sin of homosexuality BUT I do understand that people must be responsible for their own lifestyle but do we REALLY need to sink to the level of forcing those with NO interest in homosexuality but who nonetheless have an interest in providing a vital function as fighting fires and saving lives to be put in the situation (I almost said position, whoops!) that these four firemen were? My only possible possible reason for supporting firemen attending a "Gay Pride" rally would be to hose down the more ardent participants.

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58 thoughts on “SUPPORTING GAY PRIDE TO BECOME MANDATORY?

  1. Ardent gay men ? Firemen getting their hoses out! –

    You’re asking for trouble with the comments on this thread David 🙂

  2. I am surprised that Terry has not commented yet.

    Normally when the phrase "militant gay" is used he appears immediately as if summoned by Gabriel’s horn.

    So to speak.

  3. Mahons

    The article is a bit vague. It doesn’t say why they were required to attend. If they were required to attend in order to promote the fore service or hand out safety leaflets then that could be considered a legitimate part of their contract, if they were simply ordered to join the parade – which I doubt would be the case – then they have a good case to oppose the instruction as it would make no sense.

  4. I presume that people feel the need for a gay pride march and don’t for a hetro pride march as there is no stigma or taboo about the latter. We don’t have to come out We are still the default assumption.

    On the other hand forcing these firefighters to appear and in uniform is soooo inappropriate. I am not that aware of a militant gay lobby that insists anyone espouse their cause, beyond them not being discrinated against. IMO the problem tends to be the PC brigade who presume to speak for them.

  5. Sending a load of fit (in all sences of the word possibly) IN UNIFORM to a gay pride march is asking for trouble!! Bit like sending them along to a hen night. Throw in an Indian chief or two and You have a Village People tribute band!

  6. Colm,

    "The article is a bit vague. It doesn’t say why they were required to attend."

    Maybe somebody misheard the lyrics to "relight my fire" and called 911.

  7. It all seems a bit vague. It appears to have been voluntary previously, with perhaps undue pressure from their superior to participate in this instance. In New York they would have called their union delegate and this would be a non-issue.

    So we’ll have firefighters suing the City for sexual harrassment to be paid by taxpayers. Wonderful.

    Am I too late to say the whole thing is a flaming mess?

  8. Perhaps those firemen should have gone with the flow and been a bit more resourceful . They should have brought along their ‘firemens benevolent fund’ charity buckets and promised to perform a ‘full monty’ for the assembled gay gathering in return for a generous collection of donations.

  9. Did any of you guys ever see the gay parade in Belfast and the protests by Ian Paisley and Willie McCrea. I’m sorry for laughing and I know homosexuality is a sin, but its bloody hilarious.

  10. Which is more objectionable? Some folks who happen to have a different sexual orientation than the majority, or rabble rousers like Ian and Willie?

  11. Mahons, I have to state up front, homosexuality is a sin, it’s very objectionable BUT put them, as well as transgender/sexual together with willie and Ian and we could have the best tourist attraction ever.

    Having said that the few gays I know are really nice guys.

  12. Aileen if they are homosexual,with homosexual tendencies but do not engage in the activity and abstain then they are not sinning.

    Unfortunately Frank it is a sin to me, but its not up to me to judge them. I couldn’t be ingnorant to them, they are much too nice, friendly warm people. Their sexuality is there business, but I do strongly believe it is a sin.

  13. Wow! It’s not often Frank says that. He normally ALWAYS finds something to argue back with.

  14. Its not absurd, its a point of view expressed honestly and civilly.

    there seems to be a lot of focus on the christian perspective on homosexuality – unfortunately there have been some christians on the site openly expressing hatred which to me doesnt marry up with the christian viewpoint at all. You’ll find that same hatred expressed by a fair few non christian guys out there that dont rock up to church every sunday or need to find a reason in the bible. To me Hannah exhibits true christianity. So to call her absurd exhibits a lack of tolerance.

  15. All those officers needed to do was say that they are muslims and that they believe the Gay pride marchers should be killled by being crushed under collapsed walls. That should work!

  16. Thanks Alison,

    Alan talking about muslims, there was something on the radio this morning, don;’ know if you can listen to the steve nolan show. I didn’t catch it all, but it seems someone had a placard at the parade saying Jesus was a gay man can you imagine what would happen if they said that about mohammad?

    I think it comes on line after lunch, I must listen to it again and find out the full story.

  17. Alison,

    The Christian reponse should be to hate the sin and love the sinner. No-one is perfect, most certainly not Christians but we have a duty to try and follow the teachings of Christ, imperfect as we are.

  18. Ho ho, more of that famed yet elusive tolerance on display. The outcome of the case in Scotland:

    Nine firefighters who refused to hand out safety leaflets at a gay pride march were disciplined by their bosses today. The group have faced a series of disciplinary hearings since disobeying orders at the Pride Scotia parade in June. After several days of deliberation, fire chiefs at Strathclyde Fire and Rescue (SFR) today announced the nine officers would be made to undergo an intensive course of "diversity training" as a result of the incident.

    http://www.24dash.com/content/news/viewNews.php?navID=7&newsID=9867

    Let’s be clear, this has nothing to do with anything except the ruling class showing who’s boss. The Fire Brigade is an overwhelmingly male and macho environment, so a new front in the culture war is opened up on it. Dissent, and you are sent to a re-education camp for the politically unstable.

    Happily, they haven’t yet proscribed trees or lengths of rope.

  19. Hi Frank/Colm, have just been summoned/read this thread (lack of time recently), you can probably guess what I’ll say so …

  20. Pete Moore,

    Thanks for the link to the Strathclyde story. Exactly what part of "Firefighters cannot, and will not, pick and choose to whom they offer fire safety advice" do you disagree with?

  21. AF-M

    I disagree with all of that statement when firemen are directed to a meeting of queers, or any other people, for political reasons.

  22. PETE

    So they should be able to pick and choose which parts of their contract to obey. With attitudes like that you’d make a great Trade Union leader.

  23. Alison, Hannah

    Thinking homosexuality is a sin is absurd in my opinion. Clear?
    I don’t care how honestly you hold that view.

    "…homosexual tendencies but do not engage in the activity and abstain then they are not sinning.

    Unfortunately Frank it is a sin to me, but its not up to me to judge them. I couldn’t be ingnorant to them, they are much too nice, friendly warm people."

    Gays are "nice, friendly warm people" are they? So they’re all alike then?

    Aren’t you one of those nutters who claims the "British people" are about to become minorities in their own country….when the stats clearly indicate otherwise?

    Wise up.

  24. Dan

    "Gays are "nice, friendly warm people" are they? So they’re all alike then?"

    Hannah did not say that all gays were. She was talking about the ones she knew.

    I don’t agree with her re sin but I don’t see anything absurd about it.

  25. So you think it’s reasonable that gays should abstain from sex for life? That’s what she is advocating.

    I think it’s inborn and not something people can control. The idea that it’s a sin is outrageous to me.

  26. Actually, Hannah is on this point being totally absurd or totally heinous and inhuman, take your pick.

    She says active homosexuals are sinners. She is a Christian, and according to her beliefs sinners go to Hell, and this punishment is just – divinely just in fact. If she is consistent, she therefore believes that it is right that they are thus punished and all active homosexuals (including those nice guys she knows) fully deserve to suffer the most unimaginable and eternal torments simply because they practiced the only sexuality open to them.

    So which is then: absurd or inhumanly sadistic?

    Of course, it’s also possible that Hannah doesn’t believe in the Hell bit of Christianity, that she makes up her own mind. In that case, she will have to tell us why she decides for herself that homosexuality is a sin.

  27. I dont agree about the sin part but I respect her view that it is such since she doesnt go around telling me they are absurd for being gay for example. Or calling then spiteful names like some others on this site who pretend to be christian. Trying to conflate issues to make your point doesnt help either Dan. But since you gave it a go – neither does she hang around pub doors at kick out time to beat up a ‘queer’ walking home. You seem to think it is only thereligious that have a problem with gays. Wise up.

  28. Gays are "nice, friendly warm people" are they? So they’re all alike then?

    Oh and Dan – what an absurd thing to pick up on. You’ll have to tell us why you think for yourself that saying that is worthy of your contempt. Do then enlighten us with your very special approach. perhaps you can tell us if the meatheads outside of pubs garner your contempt in quite such a direct manner. Are you consistent Dan?

  29. "You seem to think it is only thereligious that have a problem with gays"
    Not at all. Where did I state that?

    She’s entitled to her views of course. No matter how out of touch with reality they are.

    Good points Noel Cunningham.

  30. Well no wonder my ears were burning.

    I will stand up and over my belief that homosexuality is a sin, whether it is absurd or not.

    That is my belief, end off…. I do not apologise for it.

    As regards people I know,(who happen to be homosexuals-which is part of them not all of them) they know my stance on this. They chose to live like this and that is down to their own free will.

    If they can accept my beliefs (absurd or not) and I can accept their life style (like it or not) and the interactions between us are decent, civil, Christian friendly and warm, then what others think doesn’t bother me at all.

    Someone said above, about hating the sin and loving the sinner, that is much the basis of it.

    The placard at Queens is highly offensive and insulting, and only brings disapproval upon a community who in the main are decent citizens and don’t need the ridicule.

  31. "Someone said above, about hating the sin and loving the sinner, that is much the basis of it."

    Well said Hannah!!!
    I have a few friends who are gay and know straight away what they would think of that fellow with the placard.

    Any fans of Will and Grace here? Or anyone ever take a tip from Queer eye for the straight guy??? haha

    Alan
    Seen a documentry on Phelps before. The guy is seriously deranged. Would love to see the Michael Moore piece where he followed him around in a pink bus full of gays.

  32. The placard at Queens is highly offensive and insulting, and only brings disapproval upon a community who in the main are decent citizens and don’t need the ridicule.

    Hannah, agree 100%

  33. "I will stand up and over my belief that homosexuality is a sin, whether it is absurd or not.

    That is my belief, end off…. I do not apologise for it."

    Absolutely. As you probably know, it’s a view that is becoming less and less common.

    Do you think homosexual Christians can gain entry in heaven Hannah?

  34. "If they can accept my beliefs (absurd or not) and I can accept their life style (like it or not) and the interactions between us are decent, civil, Christian friendly and warm, then what others think doesn’t bother me at all".

    To me, Hannah, that is what always came across in your above statement. You arent asking them to justify themselves to you either so it was disappointing to see that in Cunninghams comment above and endorsed by Dan.

    To me that placard is no different to some of the christian perspectives ive seen posted here on ATW about various including on the gay community (the adoption post). Christians dont need the ridicule it engenders either!

  35. I never suggested Hannah is going around taunting and attacking gays.

    Just can’t comprehend how someone could hold the view she does on the matter.

  36. Dan – i dont think it is less common. The idea that it is a sin maybe, but beyond that other people may not say it is a sin but they wont agree it is ‘ok’ or acceptable either. Im often surprised by the attitude of most average guys towards gay men. They sort of put up with it and dont say a lot but after a few beers the truth and ridicule starts. Like they feel threatened by it. I can think of two atheists i know who are repulsed by homosexuality and dont mince their words (scuse the pun) and would exercise a lot less compassion in what they say than Hannah. I would have thought that was something quite hurtful? I dont understand why the community would want to prance around with an insulting placard like the one in Andrews post when they suffer from the same sort of crap themselves. But then again i dont think the ridiculous bra burning commie feminists did themselves any favours 30 odd years ago. If anything they made it worse.

  37. ‘As you know that view is becoming less and less common’.

    That doesn’t make it wrong Dan.

    ‘Do you think homosexual Christians can gain entry to heaven Hannah?’

    You know Dan I never thought about it before, but since you mention it here is what I think. I must state upfront I’m not giving you any one church’s viewpoint, only my own.

    If a person reads the Bible and takes from it the way to salvation in following the footsteps of Christ then I don’t see any reason they shouldn’t get into heaven.
    Many Christians who belong to the RC church get divorced and cannot remarry in their own church, but go instead to city halls and marry in a civil ceremony. But they still go to their sacraments, and lead good Christian lives and would put me to shame in the good that they do.
    It’s much the same for me as regards homosexuals.
    That is not to say I’m advocating that people pick and choose their beliefs, but if they as a Christian have a failing or some flaw in their make up – something which does not harm others-then why would the Lord bar them.
    By flaw, (I can feel your comments coming) yes I do mean homosexuality, but for others it may be something else. Some are judgemental, and as Alison says some Christians are so filled with hate they cannot see the wood for the trees.
    They have their free will. It was God given. As Christians they need to square that within themselves, not with you or me.
    I do believe that love is part of Christianity, but some things like love has been hijacked. You wouldn’t say ‘love’ was a human condition if it involved paedophilia would you?

    Sometimes it all does boil down to doing the right thing. Homosexuality isn’t the right thing, but I won’t hate the sinner. For me thats the right thing. Others must judge for themselves.

  38. Noel,

    I really don’t know how to answer that post, because I’m wondering at your motives. I think you expect me to come accross as hell fire and brimstone and are perhaps along with Dan a little disappointed that has not happened.

    Let me lay my beliefs for you up front. I am a convert to Roman Catholicism. I converted because the beliefs of RC aid me more in attaining my ultimate goal of reaching Christ in the next life. Ideally I would like my life on this earth to mirror His values of loving ones enemy, doing good to those who hate me, and those who dont. I want to harm no one, nor hate anyone. That does not mean I do not have a political opinion, nor does it bar me from condemning the actions of others.

    So you’ll excuse me if I dissappoint you in the hell fire and brimstone area, and not condemn anyone to the fires of hell.

  39. "She is a Christian, and according to her beliefs sinners go to Hell"

    I must have missed this. Surely Christians would consider us all sinners (including them). Sinning and going to Hell are not that closely correlated unless you go in for the good works = salvation and further not good works = damnation.

  40. Aileen

    Some of us are pure in mind and thought and are free of all sinful desires 🙂

  41. Colm

    "pure in mind and thought" What exactly is the difference? I notice that you fail to answer for acts ;o)

  42. >>Surely Christians would consider us all sinners (including them). Sinning and going to Hell are not that closely correlated <<

    Aileen, they are. Simply: according to Christian religons (well RC anyway, and I very much doubt if the others differ on something so fundamental, tho it’s possible) if a person dies in a state of sin, it’s the flames for him or her.
    One sin is homosexual practice (actually all sexual activity outside marriage). This is Catholic doctrine and if Hannah chooses to believe otherwise she is not being orthodox. A true Catholic, one who belives in sexual sin as Hannah does, will believe that a practicising homosexual who refuses to repent and sincerely resolve to mend his ways before he dies is simply doomed. The Catholic will also necessarily believe that this punishment is what the sinner deserves.

    What also annoyed me, Hannah, is that someone considers something abstract, that does not affect them in any way, that they do not even know about, to be evil and "highly objectionable", etc. You are condemning something that is a central part of your friends’ lives and putting your own sexual preferences above theirs (even tho yours are every bit as "sinful" in the eyes of your Church. Or did you never engage in any sexual activity outside marriage?).
    Besides, all this talk of hating homosexuality but liking homosexuals is very dicey and not at all credible. It’s like saying you don’t like people who speak Italian, eat a lot of pasta and live by the Mediterranean but have nothing against Italians!

  43. Aileen

    I did actually mean to write pure in mind and body, although sometimes my thoughts are so far out, they have nothing to do with my mind at all 🙂

  44. Aileen

    My body listens to my meandering mind and says "No way mate I aint doing that, I’ll end up in hospital" 😉

  45. The Fire fighters were ordered to march in the parade by their superior, who is a lesbian. I think that pretty much answers the why of it!

    I have no issues with people chosing to be gay. What I do not understand is why they have Prida days, with overt displays of public sexuality and often nudity.

    I find this confusing because the gay activist groups will always tell you that gay rights is not about sexuality. But at events there is always overt displays of sexuality in public places!

  46. Heather

    Your first sentence is just an example of character based assumption. You have no idea of the reasons why these firefighters had to attend, and is it the case that they were actually ordered to March as oppose to just attend the event in a safety promotion capacity as was the case in Glasgow. There is a difference. As to why there should be these ‘Gay Pride’ events, well you could you argue the same for St Patrick’s day parades, othere ethnic fetivals like West Indian Carinavals or even Christian rallies. Lots of different communities hold public events, parades, festivals, the world would be a more boring place if none of these events ever occured.

    Ultimately there is a difference between private opinions and obeying legitimate workplace duties. If it is part of the contract which they freely signed up to, then Firefighters or any other public serice employees should not be allowed to individually pick and choose which legal public events they may be instructed to attend in an official capacity.

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