110 1 min 9 yrs

Abu Hamza (left) with a masked bodyguard

I”m not impressed but I am relieved to read this;

The European Court of Human Rights has backed terror extraditions from the UK to the United States. The Strasbourg court held there would be no violation of human rights for those facing life and solitary confinement in a supermax prison. The court sanctioned the extradition of Abu Hamza, Babar Ahmad and three others.

And which dangerous country had requested the deportation of these alleged Jihadi? Which rogue nation needed the ECHR to consider whether it was capable of providing a fair trial?

Yes – the United States.  

It is shameful that we sought permission from this Euro-Court to deport terrorist suspects wanted by our closest ally.

As I say, I view the ECHR with complete contempt BUT I am still happy that Hamza and the crew are going west!

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110 thoughts on “GO WEST….

  1. The difficulty is that Abu Hamza and Babar Ahmad are being extradited under the same circumstances and same rules (ie that they have allegedly committed crimes but committed those crimes while in the UK, not the US) as Gary McKinnon, Richard O’Dwyer and Christopher Tappin that have the right wingers going nuts.

  2. Seamus – no thats incorrect.
    Tappin and McKinnon to the best of my recollection have had NO court procedings whatsoever this side of the pond. THATS EXACTLY the point we ‘right wing nut jobs’ are making. Preferential tratment handed out to these muslim tourists er ‘turrrists’.
    Hamza et al HAVE been considered by UK and EU judges.

    Anyway I reckon this is just Capt Hook blagging a free USA vaction at UK taxpayers expense. He’s already won the free house and loadsa our cash hasn’t he?

  3. Well they have had court proceedings. Their extradition proceedings where in a court. And Hamza hasn’t been tried for this specific offence in the United Kingdom. Babar Ahmed has never been tried for any offence in the UK.

  4. DIG,
    Seamus is just a supporter of terrorists and their activities, it doesn’t matter if they are Irish or Arab. If they promote their political agenda by killing, he supports them.

  5. How about you stop talking balls Troll. If Abu Hamza has committed a crime he has committed that crime in the UK. Thus he should be tried in the UK. If Babar Ahmed has committed a crime he has committed that crime in the UK. Thus he should be tried in the UK. If Gary McKinnon has committed a crime he has committed that crime in the UK. Thus he should be tried in the UK.

    It has bollocks all to do with the United States.

  6. Seamus

    The point I made is that you approve of, and champion people that use violence as a political tool.

    You have from day one on this site. So your opinion on matters concerning people that promote violence for a political agenda is colored by your beliefs.

    Truth hit a nerve?

  7. No, you same to confuse politics for national independence.

    If someone uses violence to lower or raise taxes that is wrong. IF someone uses violence to lower or raise government spending that is wrong. If someone uses violence to change Government policy that is wrong. If someone uses violence to free their country that is not.

    I in no way support the use of violence to further a political agenda. And I never have.

  8. someone uses violence to free their country that is not.

    wrong, if your a pack of pussies that put on ski masks and blow up pubs and school buses in the name of freeing your country your a terrorist and should be hunted like a rabid animal and shot on site.

    If you pledge your life, your honor, and your fortune IN PUBLIC. Signing your name to a document stating your intentions, and then fight openly, even if you lose you are a hero.

    You support murderers and cowards

  9. Keep telling yourself that Troll. Your country never had to fight a country 100 times more powerful than it. You also make it seem like the American Revolutionaries never committed any atrocities what so ever.

  10. “David Vance, on April 10th, 2012 at 9:07 am Said:

    In the hold, preferably.”

    Yup,
    after the events of 9/11 I doubt even the most misguided “LIBERAL of liberals” would want to let them loose on the flight deck…
    Shame, shame, shame on the UK government that they resolve a serious terrorist problem by off loading them onto the good old US of A .

    Still, it does mean they can continue to pretend that they “understand” the dilemma of the radical Muslim without having to be “judgmental.”
    Instead they can let the USA deal with it whilst maintaining their coveted position as a European haven for Islamic terrorist groups…. 🙂

  11. LOL

    Seamus you are so wrong on so many levels. It is sad.

    You do however, provide the perfect example of where terrorists get their followers, your a pathetic and dangerous person.

  12. What levels am I wrong about? How about you debate instead of just flinging insults.

  13. fact, Great Britain was the Predominate world power when the US declared their independence. They were 100 times more powerful than the 13 colonies.

  14. The British had about 1 1/2 times the forces that the US Colonies had (about 150K compared to 90K). During the Irish War of Independence the British had about 14 times the strength the IRA had (about 40K compared to about 3K) and during the Troubles the British manpower was about 40 times that of the IRA (about 40K compared to about 1K).

  15. The UK wasn’t forced to join the EU. But the Socialists and freeloaders figured (like the Irish) they’d get a free ride, sit back and let the E.U. do all the heavy lifting. HAH!

    There was no threat of invasion or other draconian deeds but the politicians saw plenty of moola in their future as full fledged members.

    There are enough people in the UK who want out, but they’re screwed.

    Joining the European union is like walking into a bottomless pit of “quicksand”. Or even better getting hooked up with the Mafia.

    Once in-Never out.

  16. “If you pledge your life, your honor, and your fortune IN PUBLIC. Signing your name to a document stating your intentions, and then fight openly, even if you lose you are a hero”

    I’m always amused when people like Troll castigate armed resistance groups for not being good little boys and going out and fighting a numerically stronger, massively equipped, professional army with all the resources of the state at it’s disposal in open battle. How much easier it would be to anihilate them if the done that eh?

    Do you use the same coward tag to the various resistance groups in Europe who used exactly the same tactics against the Nazis?

    “If they promote their political agenda by killing, he supports them”

    That’s quite an accusation from such an advocate of gung – ho hammer diplomacy.

  17. the IRA are terrorists. They were never a legitimate force for independence after 1921. That’s what you are unable to grasp Seamus.

    Your heroes are nothing but animals.

    After 1921 anyone claiming to be fighting for an independent Ireland commiting acts of violence, was and is a terrorist.

    The fact that to this day that the majority of the people in both the north and the south won’t agree to uniting Ireland as a whole nation does not give just cause to ski masked killers.

  18. Well he/they will not be on a plane tonight. Apparently the judgement of the Court calls for crossed t’s and dotted i’s to be completed and nothing will happen for at least three months. And I thought that the Court had changed its attitude.

  19. Paul I never said you should fight a superior force in open battle.

    you use a strawman argument.

    Do you use the same coward tag to the various resistance groups in Europe who used exactly the same tactics against the Nazis?

    you justify terrorism in a nation that is not in a declared war, with the actions of people who were fighting in a declared war. The two don’t mix, or are you saying that the ROI is in a declared war with Great Britain? That is the only way your comparison holds water.

  20. Seamus, on April 10th, 2012 at 2:19 pm Said:

    What makes the IRA in 1921 different to the IRA in 1922?

    documents called treaties, you know (actually I guess you don’t) they are the rules of law

  21. “you justify terrorism in a nation that is not in a declared war, with the actions of people who were fighting in a declared war. The two don’t mix, or are you saying that the ROI is in a declared war with Great Britain? That is the only way your comparison holds water.”

    “documents called treaties, you know (actually I guess you don’t) they are the rules of law”

    Except they weren’t in a declared war. Poland had surrendered, France had surrendered. Their Governments had signed documents giving control of the areas to the Germans. So if a lack of a war and a document made the IRA terrorists how did the same not make the French and Polish Resistence terrorists?

  22. “You justify terrorism in a nation that is not in a declared war, with the actions of people who were fighting in a declared war. The two don’t mix, or are you saying that the ROI is in a declared war with Great Britain? That is the only way your comparison holds water”

    Please show me where Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Greece etc declared war on Germany as opposed to resisting the occupation of their countries.

    Or, for that matter, where your buddies whose actions created the state for David’s children in 1948 didn the same?

  23. I actually just checked. Poland never formally surrendered so the Polish Resistance was different. The argument is true for the French Resistance.

  24. oh so you make the argument that since the French surrendered(after 3 days..lol) and the Polish surrendered, then those people should be considered terrorists… OK then using that logic you admit that the IRA after the treaty or Ireland surrendering that the IRA ARE terrorists…lol you argument is convoluted.

    First off that’s not my argument it’s Pauls strawman argument.

    Secondly and most importantly in ALL those cases “the resisters” didn’t target nazi women and children. The IRA has and does.

    The two of you can dance all the angels on all the pins you want. It doesn’t change the facts.

    The IRA/SF are terrorists. Both of you support them, therefore both of you support planting bombs to kill school children. You should be proud.

  25. it would be different if the ROI was in a war with Britain, it is not. The IRA only represent themselves. If you believe they represent you, then you claim equal responsibility for the targeting of civilians where the only military objective is terror

  26. For a couple of the accused, this is yet another case of the British government palming off a problem/doing a deal with Washington, over something which we ought to deal with here.

    These are BBC profiles of the six accused.

    Two, Babar Ahmed and Syed Talha Ahsan seem to have no connection with the US at all.

    The other four might have connections with the US, something which British courts ought to examine before deciding on whether extraditions ought to happen. Strasbourg and its Albanian and Belorussian judges ought to have no say in the matter, of course.

  27. “oh so you make the argument that since the French surrendered(after 3 days..lol) and the Polish surrendered, then those people should be considered terrorists… OK then using that logic you admit that the IRA after the treaty or Ireland surrendering that the IRA ARE terrorists…lol you argument is convoluted.

    First off that’s not my argument it’s Pauls strawman argument.”

    Except that it was your argument. You argued that the French were at war, the Irish weren’t so the IRA were terrorists and the French Resistance weren’t. Except the French weren’t at war. They had surrendered. Are the French Resistance terrorists?

    “Secondly and most importantly in ALL those cases “the resisters” didn’t target nazi women and children. The IRA has and does.”

    Well they did target civilians, regularly in fact, including reprisals against women who “liaised” with German soldiers. They targeted companies who worked with either the Nazi or Vichy governments.

    “The IRA/SF are terrorists. Both of you support them, therefore both of you support planting bombs to kill school children. You should be proud.”

    You support the US Military so you support the killing of all the civilians killed by the US Military, including the killing of women and children. Brave boy aren’t you.

  28. “it would be different if the ROI was in a war with Britain, it is not. The IRA only represent themselves. If you believe they represent you, then you claim equal responsibility for the targeting of civilians where the only military objective is terror”

    And the French were not in a war. The war was over.

  29. You do know what a strawman argument is don’t you Troll?

    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-straw-man-argument.htm

    You cannot accuse people of supporting murderers and cowards and when comparitives are made to similar circumstances attempt to close down the discussion as a straw man.

    I slao note that you have assiduously avoided my point regarding the actions of those which led to the children of David having a state.

    “The IRA/SF are terrorists. Both of you support them, therefore both of you support planting bombs to kill school children. You should be proud”

    Belligerently bellicose rants nonetheless doesn’t make what you say any less untrue. I have never supported the planting of bombs to kill school children or any other innocent.

  30. LOL @ Troll tripping himself up in his own bullshit. A Tangled Web indeed! LOL

  31. no your right I know nothing. The IRA are heroes. Every person killed by them was a good and justified death. We should all celebrate them give them money and Semtex so that they can carry on with their just and Holy War.

    Trying to justify ski masked animals planting bombs and killing civilians in the name of a United Ireland with the actions of WWII or any other War does not support your case Paul.

    The ROI is NOT at war, supposedly the government of the ROI does not support the IRA. Therefore they are terrorists and you look at them as heroes. You therefore believe that killing women and children for no reason other than political terror is OK.

    Face it to you these little girls all under the age of 10 were good kills.

    Bernadette McCool, Carol Ann McCool. Angela Gallagher, Tracey Munn, Rosaleen Gavin, Kathryn Eakin.

    Yes lets have party and celebrate their justified deaths “IRELAND UNITE!”

  32. The two McCool children were an accident and any attempt to portray it as otherwise is just stupid. They died when a bomb their father was building premarutrely exploded. Angela Gallagher and Rosaleen Gavin were also accidents as they were caught in crossfire.

    There is also not a shread of evidence to suggest the IRA did the Balmoral bombing or Claudy.

  33. “No your right I know nothing. The IRA are heroes. Every person killed by them was a good and justified death.

    The first sentence is correct, the second sentence less so and the third absolutely incorrect.

  34. Oh, and you’ve still avoided the point regarding the state of the Lost Tribe.

  35. oh well than lets just cross them off the list….

    you really don’t see it….. you have a blackness in your soul.

  36. You said “Face it to you these little girls all under the age of 10 were good kills” yet described 6 children of whom there is no evidence to prove the IRA killed 2 of them and the other 4 were accidents. The deaths were tragic but you used them to try and prove the IRA deliberately targeted and murdered children when that simply wasn’t the case. So how about you pipe the fuck down and stop talking about stuff you clearly know nothing about.

  37. What do I not see Troll? & will you answer the question regarding when the Zionists declared war on the British?

  38. Troll why don’t you just shut the feck up. You are a barely literate fat middle aged yank that know fuck all about everything. Stop digging that hole your in it is almost painful to watch.

  39. tsk tsk… all the supporters of Irish terror

    Subboy if condemning masked Irish TERRORISTS that target civilians in the name of a united Ireland puts me in hole I’ll gladly stay there

  40. Well I think too broad a brush is being used here. There are some people who have supported the IRA who visit here, and some who have supported or excused all of their misdeeds, but that doesn’t extend to all. I don’t see how anyone could argue that the modern IRA campaign was not immoral, even if there were instacnes of moral transgressions by the RUC or British army.

  41. “Except they weren’t in a declared war. Poland had surrendered, France had surrendered. Their Governments had signed documents giving control of the areas to the Germans. So if a lack of a war and a document made the IRA terrorists how did the same not make the French and Polish Resistence terrorists?”
    Seamus,
    you make it sound like Germany, France and Poland were playing League football!

    France 0 Germany 1
    Poland 0 Germany 1

    They “surrendered” because they were overwhelmed by an aggressive, efficient, ruthless military machine called Nazi Germany!
    To have continued in a state of war would have meant more people killed, more historical and cultural destruction and the breakdown of their whole infrastructure.
    They didn’t LIKE the situation. They had no choice but to sign peace treaties with Germany.
    So the Polish people and the French people who were brave/desperate enough to resist the occupiers of their countries did so.
    These guys didn’t have to live in the West. They could have gone to any number of Islamic nations, but either they didn’t want to, or no Islamic state wanted them. They used European nations as bases for plotting their terror war on the West.

  42. More bluster Troll. As I said before, just because you shout louder it doesn’t make it true. Now could you please answer the two questions I pose at 4.01?

    Mahons, the conflict was squalid, nasty & ugly and all protagonists have very dirty hands indeed, including the state who’s “moral transgressions” included directing & controlling some of the conflict’s most prolific killers but many of the IRA’s actions, at the very least in the beginning, were justified.

  43. Troll –

    Sometime’s there’s swearing in here, but in my oinion telling people directly to STFU crosses the line.

    Whether or not you’re “a barely literate fat middle aged yank”, I’ll leave you to adjudicate.

  44. As I recall, Seamus has a poor record as to commenting on atrocities committed by the IRA. But that isn’t everyone who has offered support for the republican cause. In any event, none of the gentlemen effected by this recent ruling appear to be known IRA agents.

    The point of the post, unless I missed it, is that the UK should not have to go to a a EU related Court to extradict. But if they are treaty bound, then certainly they must.

  45. Pete I consider the source.

    Mahons it got derailed because Seamus loves to support terrorists and you know how I hate adding fuel to fire.

    Paul when the brits start marching the irish into ovens I’ll answer your question.

    Personally I hope the nice muslim men don’t get extradited until January. Although I’m sure having their case heard in NY might do the Obama campaign well…lol

    Where in the US are they being sent to?

  46. “These guys didn’t have to live in the West. They could have gone to any number of Islamic nations, but either they didn’t want to, or no Islamic state wanted them. They used European nations as bases for plotting their terror war on the West.”

    Agit, by the time we discussed this Troll had already taken us that far off topic that we were discussing the IRA, not Islamic fundamentalists.

    “As I recall, Seamus has a poor record as to commenting on atrocities committed by the IRA.”

    I pretty sure you recall wrong. What atrocities do I have a poor record on commenting on?

    “Mahons it got derailed because Seamus loves to support terrorists and you know how I hate adding fuel to fire.”

    No it got derailed because I made a comment on US jurisdiction and you didn’t want to answer it so you took it off topic.

  47. Troll – a very valid criticism of Obama from two points – (1) he should have clsoed it (which would be my point) and (2) he shouldn’t have promised to do so and then not followed through (your point).

    Seamus – clear it up quickly so I don’t have to go searching, what IRA act did you ever offer condemnation of?

  48. It isn’t bullshit. Any one can read the top of the thread. I was talking about the problems associated with the US/UK Extradition Treaty and cases, such as these ones, where someone has committed a crime, or an alleged crime, while in the UK yet the US is trying to try them and you ran off on a tangent because you didn’t want to challenge that.

  49. “Seamus – clear it up quickly so I don’t have to go searching, what IRA act did you ever offer condemnation of?”

    Several. If the IRA directly targeted civilians I condemn it.

  50. “Paul when the brits start marching the irish into ovens I’ll answer your question”

    So Zionists copied IRA tactics against the British in Palestine because the British were marching them into ovens?

    I’ll take your equivocation as not wanting to make a noose for yourself.

  51. there is no problem except that they had to ask your overlords in Belgium first.

    Seamus on this thread and on numerous threads in the past you have shown your support for and demonstrated that you have a mindset that supports and justifies acts of terror. How you dismiss the deaths of little girls above reenforces the point that there is a defect in your mental and moral judgement. Seek help, you honestly need it.

  52. I didn’t dismiss the deaths of those girls. I explained the very simple fact that you were wrong to suggest they weren’t targeted. You are the one who supports the murders of civilians, as long as it is done by the IDF or the US Military. So maybe you should seek help for your defects.

  53. no you’ll have a moral equivalency after the irish have been marched into ovens to exterminate them as a race. not before

    I make no bones about it. The Jews can do no wrong in their fight for survival because of crimes committed against them. I will grant that same pass to any group that suffers the same.

    The fact that you try to equate the IRA situation with a moral equivalency of the Jewish one only goes to show how truly weak your position is.

  54. The English/British mounted two acts of genocide against the Irish people Troll. Does that give us a free reign now.

  55. I didn’t dismiss the deaths of those girls

    yes you did

    Seamus, on April 10th, 2012 at 4:00 pm Said:

    The two McCool children were an accident and any attempt to portray it as otherwise is just stupid. They died when a bomb their father was building premarutrely exploded. Angela Gallagher and Rosaleen Gavin were also accidents as they were caught in crossfire.

    There is also not a shread of evidence to suggest the IRA did the Balmoral bombing or Claudy.

  56. Really Seamus make your case for charges of genocide against the British…

    Convince us….

  57. “yes you did”

    That isn’t a dismissal of their deaths, it was a dismissal of your ludicrous notion that the IRA targeted them.

    “Really Seamus make your case for charges of genocide against the British…”

    During the Cromwellian invasion of Ireland the English wiped out 25% of the Irish population while Britain imposed an artificial famine in Ireland causing the deaths of over 1 Million people. Two separate acts of Genocide.

  58. Pete

    Oh they’re gonna share a cell with Manson….lol

    It’s a nice place, there are two floors for administration above ground, the rest of the prison is underground drilled into the bedrock.

    Still putting them on American soil creates legal issues. They should be sent to GITMO

  59. Let’s compare!

    This:

    Seamus on this thread and on numerous threads in the past you have shown your support for and demonstrated that you have a mindset that supports and justifies acts of terror. How you dismiss the deaths of little girls above reenforces the point that there is a defect in your mental and moral judgement. Seek help, you honestly need it.

    – Troll

    and this

    I lift my glass in a toast to the bombing of Iranian children, Palestinian children, and whatever other children that are used to shield the enemy.

    – Troll

  60. Let’s have this straight Troll:

    Are you suggesting that the Holocaust is justification for Zionist Jews to copy and emulate IRA tactics and use them against the British in their violent struggle for an independant state?

    As to your emotive use of the deaths of those children. I challange you to list the kids deliberately killed in the state of N.I. by state forces and comment on it.

  61. oh so the IRA are seeking revenge against Cromwell…lol

    oh and I guess all those Irish including my ancestors that left at the time of the famine, it was either go to America or off to the death camps and the ovens?

    So where did the brits round up these Irish into death camps? Why aren’t there tours of these death camps? When where they liberated and by who?

  62. And the Israelis were seeking revenge against the Nazis by blowing up the King David Hotel?

    Not all genocides involved Death Camps Troll.

  63. Paul

    Let’s have this straight Troll:

    Are you suggesting that the Holocaust is justification for Zionist Jews to copy and emulate IRA tactics and use them against the British in their violent struggle for an independant state?

    Putting it simply YES

  64. Seamus the king david hotel was not an act of genocide, neither are Cromwell, and the famine.

  65. No one said the King David Hotel was an act of Genocide.

    If wiping out 25% of the population of a country or causing the deaths of 1 Million people aren’t genocides then what is?

  66. So, in your opinion, terrorism is alright sometimes?

    Are you going to accept the challange about the kids that the “security forces” killed or are they also causualties of your subjective view on use of violence for political ends?

  67. Paul I can’t express my support for the Jews any plainer, it has been my stated position from day one. The Jews can do no wrong, period!

    and no I’m not going to accept your strawman challenges, I listed the names of children killed by the IRA because you and Seamus say they have not killed innocents.

    I have not condoned the British behavior in the fighting against these terrorists that you love. You two are the ones grasping for straws to give your support for murdering scum a sound moral base, not me.

  68. “and no I’m not going to accept your strawman challenges, I listed the names of children killed by the IRA because you and Seamus say they have not killed innocents.”

    Where did we ever say that you crazy lunatic?

  69. The Jews can do no wrong, period!

    That is the most imbecilic comment made on these pages in all the years I have been reading or participating here.

    Shame on you.

  70. Troll, let’s get a few things on the recoed here.

    “I listed the names of children killed by the IRA because you and Seamus say they have not killed innocents”

    In short Troll that’s a lie

    Not only have I never said that the IRA have never killed innocents but when they have I have never sought to justify it nor excuse it and have condemned it outright. I’d like you to go over as many posts of mine as you wish and see if you can come up with one single iota of evidence to support that assertion. If you can’t I’d like you to retract it.

    “It has been my stated position from day one. The Jews can do no wrong, period!”

    That’s okay, it’s just good to know that you have a subjective opinion on the use of violence for poitical ends, (nowadays called terrorism). It also completey discredits your absolutist, black & white view on such things.

    “I have not condoned the British behavior in the fighting against these terrorists that you love”

    I’m not asking you to condone or condemn “British behavior in the fighting against these terrorists” I’m asking you to have a look at the kids that were deliberately killed by them and then make the same emotive point that you made with the other kids above. I suspect that you won’t as it doesn’t fit in with your simplistic good guys / bad guys narrative and once agin demonstrates the hypocricsy of your absolutist views of the use of terror.

    “You two are the ones grasping for straws to give your support for murdering scum a sound moral base, not me”

    Q. When are murdering scum not murdering scum?

    A. When they bomb the King David Hotel.

  71. Paul you have not said the IRA can do no wrong you are right, you did jump in with Seamus who has taken that position, I am not the only one to note it either. So if you lie with a dog when the hose gets turned on him your also going to get wet.

    Saying my position on the jews discredits any opinion I have is your choice, as I see it very few of you ever agree with my position or beliefs anyway.

    Also concerning the Jews they can do no wrong, as I have said in the past, again today, and will again tomorrow.

    The U.S. pledged that it will never happen again, and voices like mine will see to it that it won’t. The rest of you have proven that you won’t. You don’t have to like it, you can judge it wrong, that won’t change the fact that that when push comes to shove we shed our blood shedding the blood of those that do them harm, bank on it… as we role another aircraft carrier into the Persian gulf http://www.nola.com/military/index.ssf/2012/04/us_navy_sends_second_aircraft.html

  72. Thank you for your retraction.

    “So if you lie with a dog when the hose gets turned on him your also going to get wet”

    You realise that comment also could be be applied to your selective excusing of terrorism don’t you?

    Regarding the killing of children; are you at least prepared to condemn the wilful killing of children by the British “security forces”?

  73. We now have the equivalent of 5 times the fire power we used to invade Iraq in the region. That should give everyone pause, even with Obama in office.

  74. of course, willfully killing anyone that is not being used as a shield for a military target is unacceptable. especially children.

  75. I do believe that if a terrorist, or a nation uses innocent people to hide behind or as a shield for those positions for their bomb factories those positions are still legitimate targets and any resulting deaths are the responsibility of those that placed those innocents in the line of fire. not the people firing on those positions to eliminate the threat.

  76. Thank you again, it took a while but at least we got a condemnation.

    You should remember this conversation for future reference Troll. I know I will.

  77. I just posted a respons but it seems to have disappeared into the either so if this post is replicated I apologise.

    I do believe that if a terrorist, or a nation uses innocent people to hide behind or as a shield for those positions for their bomb factories those positions are still legitimate targets and any resulting deaths are the responsibility of those that placed those innocents in the line of fire. not the people firing on those positions to eliminate the threat.

    Really Troll? Here’s some food for thought:

    http://i.pbase.com/u47/jflogel/large/33978641.DivisTower.jpg

    That’s a British Army post on top of an apartment block in West Belfast. Are you saying that if the IRA had attacked it, (which they never did because of the high chance of civillian casualties), the British Army would have been culpable?

    Troll, you need to realise that there’s a lot you don’t know about the Irish conflict, (indeed, if you ever knew anything beyond you good guys / bad guys scenario), and that sometimes you need to do some homework on the subject before expressing your views as it’s seldom and cut and dried as you appear to see it.

  78. Troll,

    Your ignorance (i.e. total incomprehension of the facts when it comes to Northern Ireland) is only matched by your – ignorence!

    Hoo-Ra, or whatever!

  79. “Hoo-Ra, or whatever!”

    i.e. blow some women and children up, (because they deserve it), with your “shock & awe” or whatever.

    And you wonder why the USA is seen as a hate figure!

  80. you continue to throw insults when you’ve asked for a civil discussion, the answer to your question is yes it would be the fault of the British army for the deaths of the civilian casualties. They should not place targets amongst civilians.

    However you can’t assign honor for not attacking to the IRA. They do not represent the ROI, which is not at war with NI or Britain, and they do not represent the people. They are a group of terrorists that have repeatedly killed innocent people in the name of a political cause.

    If they could have attacked that position they would. Their past actions prove that.

    You continue to try and give a group of terrorists moral ground. You say I know nothing, I know that you continue to throw support to people that represent no one except themselves and obviously you as they target civilians that have no strategic value except terror.

    If they had attacked that out post it would be a legitimate target if they were a real army conducting a real war instead of a being a pack of animals that they are.

    We can show dozens of military targets that they have NOT attacked. We can also show dozens of NON military targets that the little pussies have attacked, killing civilians as a primary goal.

    Your position whether you realize it or not bolsters my argument, and condemns your support for a pack of murdering scum.

  81. eeeewwww another terrorist supporter joins the fray, welcome Matt, kill any children in the name of a united Ireland?

  82. “You continue to throw insults when you’ve asked for a civil discussion”

    I apologise if you’ve interpreted any of my comments as insults. It wasn’t inyentional.

    I’m not asigning honour to anyone for anything I merely state the fact that they never attacked the billet. I’m from the area and know it well, the last two floors of the block were occupied bt the British Army I don’t need to go into IRA actions to prove that they could have easilly attacked it.

    I didn’t say that you know nothing I merely said that there are many things you don’t know which is patently obvious from the tone of the more outlandish claims in your contributions on the subject.

    “instead of a being a pack of animals that they are.
    We can show dozens of military targets that they have NOT attacked. We can also show dozens of NON military targets that the little pussies have attacked, killing civilians as a primary goal”

    Please don’t I wouldn’t like to see you dig a bigger hole than you’re already in but if you insist then maybe you could also include the kids intentionally killed by state “security forces” which I challanged you about earlier?

    “Condemns your support for a pack of murdering scum”

    Was the bombing of the King David hotel also carried out by murdering scum?

  83. don’t play dumb, you insult and you know it.

    Who has dug a hole? The man condemning a pack of ski masked terrorists that target civilians, or the man defending them?

    and I already stated my opinion on the jewish actions but I’ll go even further. The King David Hotel was a legitimate military target. Here are the simple facts from wiki

    The King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out by the militant right-wing Zionist underground organization Irgun on the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946.[1][2] 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.[3]

    The hotel was the site of the central offices of the British Mandatory authorities of Palestine, principally the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and the Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine and Transjordan.[3][4] The attack, which initially had the approval of the Haganah (the principal Jewish paramilitary group in Palestine) and was conceived of as a response to Operation Agatha (in which widespread raids, including one on the Jewish Agency, had been carried out), was the deadliest directed at the British during the Mandate era (1920–1948).[3][4] More people were killed than by any bombing carried out in the subsequent Arab-Israeli conflict.[5]

    The Irgun, considered to be terrorists by Mi5,[6] planted a bomb in the basement of the main building of the hotel, under the wing which housed the Mandate Secretariat and a few offices of the British military headquarters. Warnings were sent by telephone, including one to the hotel’s own switchboard, which the hotel staff decided to ignore, but none directly to the British authorities.[4] A possible reason why the warning was ignored was that hoax bomb warnings were rife at the time.[4] From the fact that a bomb search had already been carried out, it appears that a hoax call or tip-off had been received at the hotel earlier that day.[3] Subsequent telephone calls from a concerned Palestine Post staff member and the police caused increasing alarm and the hotel manager was notified. In the closing minutes before the explosion, he called an unknown British officer, but, for whatever reason, no evacuation was ordered.[4] The ensuing explosion caused the collapse of the western half of the southern wing of the hotel.[4] Some of the inflicted deaths and injuries occurred in the road outside the hotel and in adjacent buildings.[4] Controversy has arisen over the timing and adequacy of the warnings and the reasons why the hotel was not evacuated.[4]

    it was a response to Black Saturday and the targets were not civilian, they were military. so your use of it as an example to bolster your support of a group that targets civilians is wrong.

    You continue to make a fool of yourself, and you are the one in the hole, both logically and morally.

  84. Troll,

    You haven’t a clue about the conflict in the north. And you advocate mass violence here routinely, unlike Paul who is always a gent.

  85. There’s only one poster on Atw who’s only ever suceeded in almost driving me to insult and you’re not him. I discuss with people civilly and don’t insult. You’ve accused me of insulting you and even though I haven’t I’m prepared to apologise on account of my words being misinterpreted. If you don’t accept it too bad.

    “The man condemning a pack of ski masked terrorists that target civilians, or the man defending them?”

    Let’s have a look at that Troll. Just who is it that’s making excuses for a bombing attack which killed:

    91 people, most of them being staff of the hotel or Secretariat: 21 were first-rank government officials; 49 were second-rank clerks, typists and messengers, junior members of the Secretariat, employees of the hotel and canteen workers; 13 were soldiers; 3 policemen; and 5 were members of the public

    ?

    However if you want to look at an example of support for

    a group that targets civillians

    maybe we should look at the Deir Yassin massacre?

    Honestly, you couldn’t make this up.

  86. Troll,

    After reading all of the entries here frankly I am embarrassed for you.

    Your geo-political knowledge outside the US is limited, to say the least.

    Perhaps examine situations a bit deeper before you superimpose your good guy/bad guy TV theories on them.

  87. Petr Tarasov coming you that carries so much weight…lol

    Paul

    It doesn’t work, you can point to jews grinding arab children up to use in their bread, which it wouldn’t shock me if you believe that, you can point to my calling for the bombing of Gaza with napalm to make room for the third armored division. You can deny that this is not you insulting me.

    Troll, you need to realise that there’s a lot you don’t know about the Irish conflict, (indeed, if you ever knew anything beyond you good guys / bad guys scenario), and that sometimes you need to do some homework on the subject before expressing your views as it’s seldom and cut and dried as you appear to see it.

    Left handed and a poor insult, but an insult none the less.

    Paul You can point out a thousand different things, it still does not change the fact that you support terror, that the blood the IRA spills you cheer.

    That because of that support you share blame. That you are no different than any Muslim cheering the death of an infidel or a Jew.

    Your insistence on dragging the Jews into the conversation only gives weight to the fact that it is you, that not only joyfully support the targeting of civilians in the name of your cause, you feel it justified. You have your twisted defenses all thought out, and ready to apply.

    Maybe you should look in the mirror.

    If the arabs left the US and Israel alone I would say ignore them, who cares. They have shed American blood and Jewish blood, My Country has declared war on terrorists, and the nations that support them, My Country has pledged to defend Israel.

    The American military actions are not carried out by little faggots wearing ski masks, our acts of violence are carried out by our young men and woman who stand before God and our Flag and take the oath.

    If your enemy in war kills one of yours, you kill 1000 of them, if they destroy a building you destroy a city, if they destroy a city you nuke them.

    If your country does not sanctify you to go somewhere and fight, and you on your own decide to don a ski mask and plant bombs or shoot people in the name of a country that didn’t ask you too, well than your a rabid dog, and the authorities of the country you “claim” to represent and her people should hunt you down and capture or kill you.

    If the country and the people you say that you are committing these acts of terror for refuse to stop you. Then the people you attack are justified in tracking you down and killing you, and if because of their silence and their allowing you to hide amongst them gets some of them killed that shouldn’t have, well you have no one to blame but their parents for allowing the animals refuge amongst them.

    You want to fight, but you lack the balls to fight like men, and you whine like women at the consequences of fighting like cowards and pussies.

    You disgust me.

  88. don’t play dumb, you insult and you know it.

    Oh for god’s sake, there was no insult in his comment, either latent or manifest.

    You’re having your ass handed to you in an discussion, and your bull-headedness is making you see insults where there aren’t any.

    Anyhow, you’re the last person to hold anyone to account for that sort of behaviour.

    Wise up man! 🙂

  89. The American military actions are not carried out by little faggots wearing ski masks, our acts of violence are carried out by our young men and woman who stand before God and our Flag and take the oath.

    Dropping bombs on poor people from thousands of feet above their heads is the very definition of cowardly.

  90. Sarah,

    How long before the toys really come out? How long before he says his integrity has been questioned and he’s leaving for ever and ever… and comes back two days later?

    LOL

  91. tell me Sarah what Country does the IRA fight for? What Country do they swear Allegiance to uphold it’s laws? Who are their Generals? Who gives them their orders? List their chain of command.

    They are terrorists no different and less honorable than the Muslim Terrorists.

    If you believe that those who support a group of people that where ski masks and fight for no country except one they only imagine, well than your just another in a long line of Irish fools.

    It’s good to know that you want your children to grow up planting bombs in schoolyards and shopping centers. Ah but it’s for my United Ireland they’ll thank my child after he has blown the head off my neighbors child when were all one.

  92. well for 4 hrs I have listened to people who believe that a group of people wearing ski masks that fight for no country and purposefully target civilians for death are heroes and are doing the right thing.

    While they call me the ignorant one…lol

    I bid you the blood soaked supporters of terror adieu, (don’t worry Petr I’m not running away, even though your showing up on the thread does lower it even beneath those that cheer for terrorists) just tired.

    Sarah your the only one that shocks me, I knew the rest supported murder, but you surprised me.

  93. Petr

    I’m sure it won’t come to that. Here’s hoping, anyway. *rolls eyes*

    Troll

    *sigh*

    (As I don the kid gloves) I’d like to point out i don’t want to fight, or to ‘insult’ you. Okay?

    What I now see as a typical trait of yours, you rush to unfounded, and utterly absurd judgements for no sane reason at all; firstly about the personal character of commentators, as seen above, and now about my heritage. From what I have read from you, this is habitual behaviour, and does you no favours, either in the reasoning in your head, or your arguments on these pages.

    Case in point: I’m not Irish. I don’t even have Irish parents. Or grandparents.

    Given this, I’m generally inclined to allow those more informed (on both sides) to give their opinion and to state what facts they may, before leaping right in as if I’m the foremost authority on the subject… because I know I’m not.

    And neither are you.

  94. True Sarah,

    It’s not an insult to say Troll knows almost nothing about the Irish conflict, which is all Paul said. It’s just a fact.

    Troll,

    Is binn béal ina thost. Oíche mhaith.

  95. Sarah

    yes it takes special understanding

    That’s exactly what the Pallies have also said for decades as they have planted bombs to kill Innocent people for political profit also.

    The IRA are no different than the PLO anyone who believes otherwise is just stupid.

  96. and I do want to add just like the pallies you irish terror loving scum claim unless you live here and unless you subscribe to your point of view we don’t know what we’re talking about.

    Thats what the nazi’s said, that’s what the PLO says, that’s always what the weak says you keep good company with both your tactics and statements

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