21 3 mins 9 yrs

I don’t know about you but everytime I see the beginning of a football match (and believe me, I try to avoid them like the plague, not easy in a sport loving household) there is always a minutes silence in respect of someone having died and black armbands are the order of the day. I read this story yesterday…

Relatives of victims of the Loughinisland atrocity have said they are overwhelmed at the Republic of Ireland team’s plan to wear armbands to mark the 18th anniversary of the shootings. Six Catholic men were shot dead in the sectarian massacre in the Heights Bar in Loughinisland, Co Down, on June 18, 1994, as the Republic played Italy at the World Cup in America. Now at the upcoming Euro 2012 tournament, the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) has revealed organisers Uefa gave permission for the team to wear the armbands, during a game between both teams 18 years on.

Well, one has to wonder why football players from the Irish Republic seek to play “tribute” to one particular group of terrorist victims from another country. The Loughinisland massacre was appalling, of course, and there is no harm in remembering the vile acts of the UVF. Mind you, the UVF have subsequently become “heroes” of the process, so a little bit of inconsistency there maybe? But why have the Irish Football Association chosen NOT to wear black arm bands in memory of other atrocities, for example those carried out by the IRA? Might this actually belie a sectarian motivation? If we checked the history, I am sure the IRA were out killing when the Republic of Ireland were playing other football games.

Personally, I would ban ALL black arm bands from any football game – unless it is player of the team that has died. Trying to import grief, as in this case, raises more issues than it solves in my view.

I would have hanged those who carried out the killings at Loughinisland. The Irish Government was keen to support a process that saw the killers set free from prison. To now want to “mark” the event in this way seems…mawkish.

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21 thoughts on “ON THE BALL….

  1. Correct David,

    In my humble opinion the problem lies with the following:

    1) The Irish-Catholics tend to be hypocrites. It’s instilled in the culture via the teachings of the church. You have to be a hypocrite to declare yourself a “good” Catholic and go out and break every rule in canon law without any remorse.

    2) The Irish-Catholics, whether they admit it or even overtly believe it are still fighting the sectarian war in their minds.

    Therefore, material tributes like wearing black armbands to memorialise the killing of 6 strangers that took place 18 years ago in a FOREIGN country is certainly indicative of their mindset.

  2. I seem to remember saying to Noel a few weeks ago, that Catholics from Northern Ireland might feel a lot safer/comfortable over the border in the RofI, than a Northern Irish Protestant would, but he didn’t understand that..

  3. Some prat at the FAI is looking to stir it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they swung it by calling in a favour for some dodgy back-room UEFA deal.

  4. Ireland will again play Italy 18 years to the day that Unionists murdered Irish football supporters who were watching Ireland play Italy. You don’t think that is poignant?

  5. And the coincidence makes it all the more poignant. Football supporters were murdered watching those two teams play on that same day. I agree that there is too much of a remembrance culture in football now but if that doesn’t justify remembrance then I don’t know what does.

  6. //one has to wonder why football players from the Irish Republic seek to play “tribute” to one particular group of terrorist victims from another country.//

    Well, the simple reason is that all those who were killed were supporters of the Irish team and were killed when supporting that team.

    Actually, I remember at the time there was some suggestion that the team make some kind of gesture at the next WC game, which was I think the very same day or the next day after the massacre, and THEY REFUSED.

    //I seem to remember saying to Noel a few weeks ago, that Catholics from Northern Ireland might feel a lot safer/comfortable over the border in the RofI, than a Northern Irish Protestant would, but he didn’t understand that..//

    No, you didn’t, you said the opposite – that NI Catholics are as safe and in some ways even safer in NI than they would be in the RoI, then you got all confused and contradicted yourself. I even I pointed this out to you at the time. Go back and check what you really wrote.

    As usual you are just waffling about here like some pensioner in a pub, understanding neither what someone else says nor what you say yourself.

  7. I think the intent isn’t in bad faith, since it is an anniversary and they would be playing the same team and the victims had been watching the particular match between the two nations at the time. But I think that ultimately it leads to a slippery slope in which some victims could be seen to be elevated over others from other occassions, and as such it seems to bring more controversy than is necessary.

    That being said it is a remarkable achievement that the peace process has brought us far less incidents of killings for which we have to recall the dead. The old road is rapidly changing.

  8. Liverpool refuse to play on the anniversary of their supporters dying at Hillsborough. That was in the news quite recently and caused a bit of controversy. Yet no post from David.

    But when the Irish team commemorate our fans who were murdered by the UVF he suddenly discovers a long standing objection to commemorations at football matches?

    Coincidence? Hardly. But lets be fair. David in you long years of almost daily contributions on a huge range of topics here can you give us a previous example of this long-standing policy of yours.

    I found this example of your wanting poppies worn to commemorate the dead during a football match.

    http://www.atangledweb.org/?cat=789

    So just to clarify, is it just black armbands are the problem?

  9. it’s still legitimizing the politics of terror. I agree with David, armbands and memorial tributes like this should be limited to deaths within the organization or the team.

  10. But why have the Irish Football Association chosen NOT to wear black arm bands in memory of other atrocities, for example those carried out by the IRA?

    A brilliant piece of whataboutery David, well done.

    And could you get the name of the organization right.

  11. Well, one has to wonder why football players from the Irish Republic seek to play “tribute” to one particular group of terrorist victims from another country

    But why have the Irish Football Association chosen NOT to wear black arm bands in memory of other atrocities,

    What “country” does the Irish Football Association represent, David?

    Does not the fact that there are two football associations called the Football Association of Ireland and the Irish Football Association not (a) remind you of something from the “Life of Brian” and (b) tell you that your hard line statement that County Down is somehow in a territory “foreign” to the 26 counties is somewhat questionable (what would Percy French think after all?)…..

  12. I take it Troll you opposed the NFL from having commemorations on September 11th 2011, to mark the 10th anniversary of that atrocity, as it legitimised the politics of terror.

  13. “//I seem to remember saying to Noel a few weeks ago, that Catholics from Northern Ireland might feel a lot safer/comfortable over the border in the RofI, than a Northern Irish Protestant would, but he didn’t understand that..//

    No, you didn’t, you said the opposite – that NI Catholics are as safe and in some ways even safer in NI than they would be in the RoI, then you got all confused and contradicted yourself. I even I pointed this out to you at the time. Go back and check what you really wrote.

    Agit8ed, on May 6th, 2012 at 7:04 pm Said:

    “Jews are as safe in Europe or the US as they are in Israel (and in certain ways of course much safer) – and to suggest that they are not, that they are in danger from the other people there, is ugly fanaticism – the kind of crap that Israeli leaders need to keep their ship afloat. Such people who make such a coddle of them are little better than anti-semites.”
    let’s try that another way..

    Northern Ireland Protestants/Catholics are as safe in Northern Ireland as they are in the Republic of Ireland (and in certain ways of course much safer) – and to suggest that they are in danger from the other people there, is ugly fanaticism – the kind of crap that Sinn Fein and the Ulster Unionists need to keep their ship afloat.
    Such people who make such a coddle of one side or the other are little better than Shinners/Orangemen/Brit Bastards etc etc..

    At last I’ve found it!

    Agit8ed, on May 6th, 2012 at 7:04 pm Said:

    “Jews are as safe in Europe or the US as they are in Israel (and in certain ways of course much safer) – and to suggest that they are not, that they are in danger from the other people there, is ugly fanaticism – the kind of crap that Israeli leaders need to keep their ship afloat. Such people who make such a coddle of them are little better than anti-semites.”
    let’s try that another way..

    Northern Ireland Protestants/Catholics are as safe in Northern Ireland as they are in the Republic of Ireland (and in certain ways of course much safer) – and to suggest that they are in danger from the other people there, is ugly fanaticism – the kind of crap that Sinn Fein and the Ulster Unionists need to keep their ship afloat.
    Such people who make such a coddle of one side or the other are little better than Shinners/Orangemen/Brit Bastards etc etc..

    YOU were trying to say that Jews were safe anywhere in Europe or the USA, and I turned your statement around to point out that Northern Irish Catholics are safer in the Republic of Ireland than Northern Ireland Protestants would be..
    You are talking RUBBISH Noel.
    Of course Jews are safer in Israel than they are in Europe or even America!
    Just as NI Catholics would be safer in the Republic of Ireland than NI Protestants would be.

    And as for,
    “As usual you are just waffling about here like some pensioner in a pub, understanding neither what someone else says nor what you say yourself.”

    Are you talking to me – or your Dad? Your issues are with your Dad not me.

    Because when I thought about it, my first (non Christian) reaction was to say,
    “Come here sonny boy with your trendy t shirt; and this pensioner will show you how to communicate using blink once for yes, and twice for no.
    Then I thought,
    no, that would be wrong… 🙂

  14. Quite the hypocrite once again Mr Vance considering your stance over the annual Poppy fest and football teams having one on their shirts. Is it only certain victims that should be remembered.?

  15. Therefore, material tributes like wearing black armbands to memorialise the killing of 6 strangers that took place 18 years ago in a FOREIGN country is certainly indicative of their mindset.

    And what a FOREIGN countries football team does is anyone else’s business why?!

  16. I’d imagine that they’re going to wear the armbands in memory of six Irish supporters who were murdered as they watched their football team play Italy and the fact that they’re playing the same team eighteen years to the day later is fairly relevant.

    Good catch Henry.

    While we’re on the subject of victims how anyone could let this idiotic buffoon (dangerous) publicity whoremongering “victims campaigner” represent them is beyond logic.

    http://www.u.tv/News/IRA-HQ-claim-over-schools-Italian-flag/a415e119-9230-4265-b9d5-a16348618fac

  17. “The school was flying the flags as part of a European project ..”

    Just as bad. God forbid they grow up with a love of their own heritage and country.

  18. Just as bad. God forbid they grow up with a love of their own heritage and country

    It depends what country and heritage you’re speaking about.

  19. It is not the first time that an Irish team will have taken to the field wearing black armbands, however, with the most famous occasion probably the one in Reykjavik on September 6th, 1997, when a side managed by Mick McCarthy and captained by Andy Townsend, both of whom were said to have had a major hand in the decision, wore armbands to mark the death of Princess Diana.

    From the Irish times. Somehow i doubt that David will have much to say on this.

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