182 3 mins 9 yrs

I have to put on record my admiration for Anne Travers, whose sister Mary was murdered by the IRA as she left a Belfast chapel with her father and mother in 1984. She has  branded Sinn Fein claims that the Shankill Butchers were victims of the Troubles as “political correctness gone barmy” and also hit out at suggestions that one option to deal with Northern Ireland’s past might would be to let victims “die off”.

Ms Travers was speaking yesterday after Sinn Fein MLA Mitchel McLaughlin was asked on the BBC’s Stephen Nolan Show if the Shankill Butchers were victims. He replied: “I think they were, because all of us are victims of a conflicted and divided society.” The Shankill Butchers were a group of Belfast loyalists who murdered 19 people in the 1970s using tools from the butcher’s trade. Their nickname is still used today as a by-word for cruelty. Mr McLaughlin was then asked if ordinary people distinguish between an innocent child killed in the Troubles and armed men on the British or republican sides. But the MLA replied: “I am refusing to be drawn into that game of a hierarchy of blame.” Asked if dissident republicans are also victims, he replied: “Of course they are.” Ms Travers immediately hit out against Mr McLaughlin’s comments on social networking site Twitter. She then contacted the News Letter to repeat her views.

“What Mitchel McLaughlin said was going to the ridiculous,” she said. “His definition of victims is political correctness gone barmy. “I cannot see how someone who plants a bomb can be on an equal footing with one of their victims, people who had no means to defend themselves and no prior warning they were about to be attacked. “Just because you are in a community where something bad has happened to you, it doesn’t mean it is completely right to go out and murder. “Sinn Fein put the IRA volunteers to the forefront and are very supportive of them. But I remember growing up in Northern Ireland where people were petrified of what the IRA and loyalists would do to them.”

Ann Travers speaks the truth on this issue and I doff my cap to her. It cannot be easy to speak out in this way but she is right and I hold precisely the same view.

Click to rate this post!
[Total: 0 Average: 0]

182 thoughts on “BARMY…

  1. Add me to the list as well.

    It is sickening to see the likes of mclaughlin and the rest of the ira sitting trying to justify their sordid mass murdering campaign as anything other than genocide.

    Even worse than that is the majority of catholics who vote for them.

    Truly immoral and an impediment to real progress for all our people.

  2. I agree with her that she remembers a dangerous NI. That dangerous time is gone.

  3. And that it wasn’t just the IRA and loyalists that people were petrified from.

  4. “Ms Travers was speaking yesterday after Sinn Fein MLA Mitchel McLaughlin was asked on the BBC’s Stephen Nolan Show …”

    Well there’s the problem.

    Mitchel McLaughlin has always been the IRA’s chief bullshitter. For shamelessly lying out of both sides of his mouth in defence of the perverse, he makes Tony Blair look like an amateur.

    Nolan knows it, he knows what he was getting on the show, he knows McLaughlin can’t recite a shopping list without defending IRA thugs.

    Decent people would be better off ignoring him.

  5. Pete,

    even better, stop voting for him and his fellow ira gangsters?

  6. The reason McLaughlin agrees that the shankill butchers were victims is purely an attempt to legitimise his side’s murderous campaign. Loyalist and Republican terrorists now pat each other on the back as they act and talk like pious peacemakers.

  7. The only people who really were victims were those who chose not to participate in the violence but ended up being killed anyway.

  8. That can’t be argued with Colm. The only amendment I would make would be to broaden the killing element to physical / psychological injury, loss of relatives etc.

    Mitchel McLaughlin needs to catch himself on in this instance.

  9. Paul,

    Do you agree that all terrorist killers and supporters of same can never be classed as victims?

  10. I would argue that they can’t be victims. Just because Person A is a victim and Person B is a victim doesn’t mean they have they are the same. Is Thomas Begley a victim of the Troubles? Yes. Is he as much of a victim as Sharon McBride? No.

    If someone lifted up a gun whether they are IRA, Loyalist, British Army, UDR, RUC etc then they aren’t as much of a victim as a civilian. But it doesn’t mean they aren’t victims.

  11. Seamy son,

    the British Army, the RUC all are accountable to the law and prosecution.

    Now, your scummy cowardly ira are not, as they haven’t the balls to stand in the daylight and conduct themselves accordingly.

    I should have known you and other ira supporters would try and bend morals to suit your own agenda, just like the civil rights baloney used to justify mass murder.

    SICK.

  12. You are only accountable if you are actually held to account something the British Army and the RUC were not. How many people have been imprisoned for the Army executing 14 Civil Rights Protesters for example?

  13. The Army and the RUC were held accountable, under the law.

    How many of the ira you support were/are answerable to the law?

    LOL, Even your hero Adams cannot even admit he was in the ira!

    YELLOW BELLY!

    McGuinness came to the Bloody Sunday inquiry he shouted about and said he couldn’t give evidence because of some sort of omerta nonsense.

    A proven liar, commander of mass murderers and someone your community still feel fit to vote for.

    So, I will take no moral lecturing from you or others like you as you still support the scum of the earth.

  14. You are only accountable if you are actually held to account. RUC officers and the Army murdered 189 civilians throughout the Troubles. How many were held to account for that.

    Also the IRA were held to account under the law, hence the number of them that ended up in prison.

    It also isn’t a moral lecture. As things stand the legal definition of a victim is anyone who has been physically or psychologically injured as a result of a conflict-related incident, provides constant care for anyone who has been physically or psychologically injured as a result of a conflict-related incident or has had a bereavement as a result of a conflict-related incident is a victim. If you want to change that you have to convince people like me.

    So you sit and cry to heart’s content but it ain’t changing anything.

  15. No wee Seamy, wrong again.

    Killings were unfortunate, but murder is pre-mediatated.

    The security forces were accountable and worked under the law, as is right.

    The cowardly ira is led by adams who cannot even admit he was in the ira!

    Yellow scum of the earth. They will not even testify, even marty (I didn’t fire a machine gun at the paras and got my community’s balls rolled) refused to answer questions.

    You really are a sick lot you catholic IRA supporters.

    Those who were found to be working outside it were prosecuted and rightly so.

    I believe that mass murderers and their supporters do not deaerve to be classed as ‘victims’, they are merely the dog’s dirt on the bottom of my shoe, and the support from you and others is even more immoral.

  16. Aw. Poor wittle LU doesn’t like us.

    Boo hoo.

    You have to convince the “immoral” ones if you actually want to change anything. So good luck with that one.

  17. No LU, killers can’t be victims. “Supporters” of killers, (whatever that is), can.

  18. Paul,
    Supporters of mass murderers can be victims? That fits with your lack of morals…

    Seamy, I don’t have to convince anyone, it is incumbent on the minority to convince me and the rest of the majority.
    I wish you even better luck with that one! LMAO.

    Martin,

    Thanks for your fantastic contribution.

  19. It actually isn’t incumbent on the minority to convince you or anyone else. The law is what it is thus to change that definition would require a vote to change the law. Such a vote will undoubtedly get the 30 signatures in Stormont required to force a cross-community vote thus ensuring the Bill’s defeat.

    So it is actually incumbent on you to convince us.

  20. Seamy, ah actually yes it is, as our status will not change unless the rest of us agree with your warped mindset.

    (I can tell you, it is not very likely.)

    the 30 key petition would be vetoed by unionists OF COURSE!

    DUH!

    No change in NI’s staus within the UK until the majority say so, get it?

    That is quite simple, even for you!

  21. Thanks Martin.

    I have a life, a very good one and at present on holiday.

    I hope the weather is as nice where you are.

    Do you like fish?

  22. sitting with a platter in front of me.

    Calamari, sea bass, salmon, mackerel, prawns…

    Lovely.

    met a lovely couple from New Jersey, they are interested in ‘soccer’

    lol

  23. I didn’t say “Supporters of mass murderers” you did.

    Give me the definition of what supporters of killers are, e.g. would you group SF voters into it?

  24. Anyone actively supporting and complicit in mass murder has no right to claim victimhood.

    sfira activists and supporters have no morals and obviously no conscience.

  25. A couple of points firstly Sinn Fein’s Mitchell McLoughlin nor Sinn Fein, have any morals or the right to determine who is a victim.

    Sinn Fein’s Mitchell McLoughlin and his party claimed that the IRA abduction, torture and murder of a mother of 10, Jean McConville was not a crime!!! Secondly Begley was not a victim nor was is mother, father, brothers or sisters. He was a perpetrator, nor is his IRA bomber friend Sean Kelly a victim. They are mass murders.

    One died and the other was rescued from the aftermath of there bomb by the people of the Shankill road.

    Does it surprise anyone that Sinn Fein are going out of their way to define that mass murders are victims, because its part of their rewriting of history.

    It begs the question, are republicans/nationalists so warped that in voting for Sinn Fein they agree with this? I’m sorry I find myself starting to harden my opinion on anything that is coming from not only Sinn Fein, but the republican/nationalist population.

  26. Martin,

    my money is on ze Germans and I have just watched them scrape through against portugal one nil.

    Last week, I was in London, and I was sitting at the bar.

    I was with a lad from Cork and another London based Irishman, who neither of us knew.

    the conversation was amusing in that Connor knows my form, and he was conversing with the London based Irish man.

    Connor says; ‘ye’ll be watching Ireland next sunday then, wont ya?’

    London irish replies, ‘are there any Irish playin in da team?’

    I had to go to the toilet… lol

    classic!

  27. Glenn, anyone complicit in assisting or voting for mass murderers are just as bad as the scum they are supporting.

    Simple.

    Glad to read some sense after the splattering of manure I have to endure from ira supporting scum.

  28. “Seamy, ah actually yes it is, as our status will not change unless the rest of us agree with your warped mindset.
    (I can tell you, it is not very likely.)
    the 30 key petition would be vetoed by unionists OF COURSE!”

    No one is talking about a change in status of Northern Ireland. This is thread, if you had been paying attention, is about changing the definition of a victim. In order to change the definition of a victim you need the support of Nationalists. Nationalists have a veto over that and are willing to use it unless you convince us otherwise.

  29. Why all the hullabaloo around the Ballymurphy shootings? All those Para troopers allegedly involved are victims, according to Sinn Fein’s Alex Maskey, so what’s the beef????

  30. Seamy,

    WRONG again.

    There is no definitive criteria for a ‘victim’ from the assembly.

    Secondly, I wouldn’t expect the irasf mass murderers support the moral description of a victim, nor would I expect you and others who support the scum to have any morals or decency in this respect, or anywhere else.

    We do not have to convince anyone; the world knows who the victims are, and more importantly, WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE THOUSANDS.

    SFIRA, who YOU vote for.

    ABSOLUTELY SICKENING.

  31. Just because someone is a victim doesn’t mean what they did is wrong. Thomas Begley was a victim. What he did was wrong. Lenny Murphy was a victim. Wrong doesn’t being to describe what he did. Many of the Paras were victims. What they did was wrong.

  32. There is. The Assembly doesn’t set “criteria”. It sets law. And the definition of a victim is set down in law, the 2006 Victims and Survivors Order (in that particular case it was an Order-in-Council). The only way to change it is to pass another law amending the definition which would have to have cross community support.

  33. Begley was a scumbag, like you and others who vote for mass murderers.

    He was a coward.

    Lenny Murphy was not a victim. He was scum like Begley.

    Murderers are not victims, they leave behind victims, but they are cowardly scum of the lowest of the low.

  34. Keep telling yourself that LU.

    Because according to the law of the land both were victims.

  35. Seamy,

    there is no law passed to include killers.

    It doesn’t need changing, as the disgusting views of the ira’s mclaughlin bears no gravitas across the legal implications of the 2006 order.

    No convincing needed.

    Just a condemnation for people supporting mass murderers.

    sick.

  36. Seamy…

    ah…yet again, evidence for scumbags begley and murphy being termed as victims please.

    In your own time.

  37. There is a law that includes anyone, including people who have killed others. It defines a victim as anyone who has been physically or psychologically injured as a result of a conflict-related incident, provides constant care for anyone who has been physically or psychologically injured as a result of a conflict-related incident or has had a bereavement as a result of a conflict-related incident is a victim. If you want to change that you have to convince people like me.

    That includes members of the IRA.

  38. as sick as you then and your other fellow supporters.

    We will rise above that and leave those who view mass murderers such as begley and murphy as ‘victims’ to be viewed as the warped and sick individuals as they are.

    Well done, I couldn’t have exposed you any better.

    GIFT!

  39. btw, there is no recommendation for terrorists to be included. That is your assertion which most people would find reprehensible and secondly would have no legal standing in the UK court of law.

    Your first sentence is WRONG.

    It doesn’t ANYWHERE say anything of the sort.

    There is no provision to include people who have killed others.

    This is boring…are you over 18?

  40. Of course that doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is the legal definition. That means all agencies, all government offices must use the definition that IRA volunteers, Loyalists etc are victims. That means that all allocations of resources must take them in to account.

    We will accept the crying of a few knuckledraggers on the side. The fact remains that your crying changes nothing. In every way that matters, legally, financially etc they are stilled classed as victims.

  41. I just can’t believe what I’m reading from republicans/nationalists on here.

    I have not voted in the last couple of elections and was of a mind of never voting again.

    Well done guys, the 4 votes in my house will now be making their way to the ballot box at every opportunity to ensure as few shinners get into power as possible.

  42. It says that a victim is:

    (a)someone who is or has been physically or psychologically injured as a result of or in consequence of a conflict-related incident;

    (b)someone who provides a substantial amount of care on a regular basis for an individual mentioned in paragraph (a); or

    (c)someone who has been bereaved as a result of or in consequence of a conflict-related incident.

    There is nothing in law to exclude those who committed offences.

  43. No shame Seamy, no shame…

    the victim makers are victims in your weird world.

    Shameful and sickening.

  44. Not in my weird world. In the real world, LU. According to the law of the land.

  45. Anyone actively supporting and complicit in mass murder has no right to claim victimhood.
    sfira activists and supporters have no morals and obviously no conscience

    So, just to be absolutely clear, you are saying that SF activists and members actively support and/or are complicit in mass murder and can never be victims?

  46. Seamy,
    I am aware of the definition; I was asking where it COMPREHENSIVELY included those who were convicted of killing.

    It doesn’t, so for that, I am a, glad, and b, it never will, as you and your ira mass murdering ilk have to convince the majority to approve the immoral and sick position of you all.

    Pass the sick bag…

  47. Paul son, can you read?

    Let me repeat;

    ”Anyone actively supporting and complicit in mass murder has no right to claim victimhood.
    sfira activists and supporters have no morals and obviously no conscience”

    Simple.

  48. It doesn’t have to definitively. Because it doesn’t exclude them they are considered, under law, to be included. It has to directly exclude them for them to be excluded and they aren’t, directly or otherwise, excluded.

  49. No seamy lad.

    The victim makers are never victims.

    That would be perverse.

    Oh, hold on, you support and vote for them…

    Ah.

    Understand.

    SICK.

  50. It isn’t just me declaring them victims, LU. It’s the law, whether you like or not, whether you feel it is perverse or not.

  51. That’s a lot of excludes.

    Anyone ‘qualifying’ is answerable to the commissioner, which guess what seamy?

    Is answerable to the assembly.

    IE, subject to a cross community vote.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA CLEANED YET AGAIN!

    Next time try thinking and educationg yourself wee man!

  52. Except that the commission (there is more than one commissioner and one of them is the brother of an IRA volunteer) is a) appointed by the Assembly (and thus under the current election results must have Sinn Féin support) and b) follow the legal definition of a victim.

    So maybe you should try thinking before you declare yourself the winner when you clearly haven’t a clue what you are talking about.

  53. obviously seamy…except that of course they are restricted by the assembly, so as a result the opposite is more pertinent, that in order to exert legal judgement, it would have to garner support from the majority of unionists, and I don’t really think that will happen, as they have morals; as opposed to the murderers sitting opposite.

    And of course, a toothless talking shop is powerless to usurp the law of the UK and of course, the ECHR.

    Try again wee man.

    lmao

  54. It doesn’t have to exert legal judgement. It is law. It is the current law. It has legal force. It doesn’t need continued assembly support to sustain it. It doesn’t have to be re-passed.

    It is the law. The only way to stop it, the only way to create a new definition, a definition that excludes the IRA and Loyalists, is for the Assembly to pass a new law. And that would be subject to a Nationalist veto.

    Maybe if stopped laughing your arse off you would pay attention for five seconds and stopping acting like an idiotic buffoon.

  55. Were these people victims?

    The inquest, expected to last three weeks, is into the deaths of Constable Moore, 24, and the three men he killed in February 1992, Patrick Loughran, 61, and Pat McBride, 40, both Sinn Fein members, and Michael O’Dwyer, 21. Constable Moore killed them with a shotgun and later used the gun to shoot himself

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ruc-man-tells-of-call-from-colleague-inquest-told-of-threats-made-on-phone-2322306.html

  56. I really don’t think Mitchell McLaughlin thought this one through before speaking, although Pete was right earlier – Nolan knew the type of response he would get to his question, and went for it. It’s all about viewing figures to him, so the more controversy he generates, the better.

    That said, I would argue that some, and only some, of the butchers could be called victims under the terms of the 2006 Victims and Survivors Order, in that they have been ‘psychologically injured as a result of or in consequence of a conflict-related incident.’ That’s to say, they were young men, brainwashed by their peers, elders, and political leaders, into believing that they were in some way ‘doing the right thing’. Many of the young men on the Republican side would also fit into this category.

    Lenny Murphy doesn’t fit in here as a victim, of course. He was a sociopath, and very sick, mentally, to have done what he did and overseen the murders that he ordered from his prison cell.

    He is a victim in another sense though. He slipped through the net in regards of Social Services (not a huge surprise, given what was going on here at the time), and probably should have been identified as a risk to others a lot earlier. That in no way excuses what he did, nor does it put him in the same class of ‘victimhood’ as any of his, or any other groups, victims.

    I would also say that a certain victims’ campaigner from the South Armagh area would fit into both groups I’ve mentioned.

    Oh yeah – hi folks. I see I got an honourable mention on another thread, this time masquerading as an Arsenal-supporting ‘bit of a soak.’ Hey-ho.

  57. awk seamy, are you upset?

    Don’t you know that the act about victims and their definition is solely for the commissioner?

    Don’t you know that any recommednadtions from the commission has to be approved by a cross community vote?

    Go back and have a wee look at it son, and then, when you come back you can have a go at debating in an adult manner, and stop exposing your ignorance, day in, day out…

    Paul,

    your desperation is amusing me…It has taken you all this time to find this?

    lol

  58. The Act defines what a victim is, for all matters, not just the commission. If you can’t get that threw your thick skull then that is your problem. And if they ever tried to change it or the Commission tried to pass anything that excluded them then it would be vetoed by Nationalists.

    There is no exclusion, in terms of the legal definition of a victim, of members of the IRA, whether you like it or not.

  59. seamus,

    lenny murphy and begley and the rest of the mass murderers can NEVER be classed as victims.

    I wish you goodnight and hope you can sleep without reflecting on the many poor individuals murdered by those you support.

    You are one sick lad.

  60. ‘lenny murphy and begley and the rest of the mass murderers can NEVER be classed as victims.’

    That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I might even agree with you.

    The law, however, may say otherwise.

  61. your desperation is amusing me…It has taken you all this time to find this?
    lol

    So, not only are you again avoiding answering the question but you’re also laughing at the murders?

  62. The act you are citing is in terms of what the commissioner will recognise a victim as.

    The commissioner is answerable to the assembly.

    With me so far?

    So, it is yet another pointless act, as if nationalists do not like any report or recommendation, they will veto it, and the same for unionists.

    In short, nobody in their right mind would support a compensation claim for example from the family of a mass murderer.

    So, stalemate and a complete waste of time.

    Just like Stormont.

  63. Seimi,

    nope, I think that a claim from a mass murdering ira man/or family would have a very slim chance of support from the unionist benches…

  64. Except that it doesn’t just apply to the Commission (there is more than one commissioner dumbass).

    It applies to any services granted to victims, including funding, access to care etc. And with those services they can’t exclude victims who were paramilitaries.

  65. Which would surely be a breach of that family’s rights? Say a family of an IRA man’s house is badly damaged in a flood, are you saying they wouldn’t get compensation because of his history and affiliations? Or are you saying they shouldn’t?

  66. What and whom Unionists and Nationalists consider victims will always be different, and the opinion of anyone here is as irrelevant as the opinion of the Man From God Knows Where.

    As I said before (but is a prophet ever recognised in his own land?), the question could only be decided if we knew who would have been a killer even if he had never appeared on the NI scene. (and that would exclude IMO Lenny Murphy)

    But we can’t know that, so as far as I’m concerned they are all victims.
    The grass will grow just as green over all their graves, to coin a phrase.

  67. If as the republicans/nationalists state that everyone was a victim, what is all the debate about???

    Is it not the case that there needs to be cross community agreement, on the definition. And no Unionist politician is ever going to agree to the republican/nationalist definition.

  68. seamy, I know there is more than one commissioer, but one commission. It was said in context. You probably don’t know what that means, ‘dumbass’.

    The act is solely based on what the commission interpret any ‘victim’ is defined as, or qualify to be a victim.

    Understand?

    Funding is allocated by the assembly and agreed by the assembly.

    Which really will never happen, as the sfira benched will not support the funding for proper victims, left without family due to their mass murder.

    A waste of time.

    Seimi, we are talking about the troubles and the effects of terrorism, not floods, or anything ‘normal’.

  69. seamus.

    Listen son, or read.

    There has to be cross community agreement to agree to anything.

    U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D?

    The definition is secondary to the importance of funding to your mass murderers, and on top of that, Sammy Wilson is never going to allocate money to ira scum, is he?

    Get a grip.

  70. You should be more specific in what you write then…

    ‘nope, I think that a claim from a mass murdering ira man/or family would have a very slim chance of support from the unionist benches…’

  71. It is actually already funded, not just from the Northern Ireland budget but also EU monies in Peace II spending. It is allocated as a block by the Assembly and individually allocated by the Office of the First and deputy First Minister. So the Assembly can’t stop funding going to a Republican victims organisation.

  72. Seimi,

    we are talking about victims within a NI context, and within the troubles.

    That is quite aptly specific.

  73. We are talking about victims within a NI context, and within the troubles

    So could you specify, according to your opinion, wether the people in the link I provided are victims or are you just going to continue to ignore my question?

  74. Well, to be even more specific, you were talking solely about the families of IRA men, and their chances of getting compensation. You didn’t mention ‘within the NI context’, whatever that means, or ‘the troubles’. What you said was –

    ‘nope, I think that a claim from a mass murdering ira man/or family would have a very slim chance of support from the unionist benches…’

    which is why I suggested that you be more specific. No need to thank me.

    However, ‘within the NI context and within the troubles’, are you saying that the Unionist benches would look more favourably on a claim from the family of a UVF/RHC/UDA/WHATEVER man, in terms of compensation?

    Cos I can think of a few politicians who might not like you saying that.

  75. Seimi,

    I think you misunderstand the thread.

    Please read the whole comment and understand the whole thrust.

    We are discussing a NI thread and one about the victims commission ‘qualifying’ who constitutes a victim; so to follow on, we were looking at would they qualify for funding as a result of the troubles.

    Unionists would be very reluctant (and rightly so) to allocate monies to mass murderers of the ira, or to ANY murderer, (eg, like the family of lenny murphy), as the unionist community does not support terrorism, as is evident by the neglible voting for the pup/uvf.

  76. ‘I think you misunderstand the thread.’

    No I don’t. I did read the whole comment, thank you. I was merely pointing out that you weren’t very precise in your comment. That’s all. A tad pedantic, perhaps, but now that you have explained it, it no longer looks like you were saying that the Unionist benches would turn down a claim, any claim, purely because the family claiming were related in some way to a member of the IRA.

    I have a question for you. Will you answer Paul’s question?

  77. ‘…the unionist community does not support terrorism, as is evident by the neglible voting for the pup/uvf.’

    Do you honestly believe this? Like really?

  78. If a claim from any member of the ira was lodged, then I would fully support the complete and absolute dismissal of same.

    The people who murdered our citizens should be in prison, not in government.

    Same goes for the shankill butchers, but thankfully my community dismiss murderers at the ballot box.

  79. seimi,

    it is evident and proven time after time, so it is unquestionable.

  80. ‘Same goes for the shankill butchers, but thankfully my community dismiss murderers at the ballot box.’

    But your community, ie the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist community produced, protected and harboured this gang of serial killers, and many more besides. Does success at the ballot box change this from a good thing to a bad thing?

  81. ‘it is evident and proven time after time, so it is unquestionable.’

    Oh, well that’s that then.

  82. ‘As I said before (but is a prophet ever recognised in his own land?), the question could only be decided if we knew who would have been a killer even if he had never appeared on the NI scene. (and that would exclude IMO Lenny Murphy)’

    Why do you think Lenny Murphy wouldn’t have killed had he never appeared on the NI scene? You don’t think he was a violent sociopath to begin with?

  83. Actually, they might have came from my community, but they were not protected, or harboured; in fact it was the community that turned against them, and rightly so.

    As for success at the ballot box, no, it is reassuring that my community refuse to desire representation in government from killers and thugs. It is a welcome development that I would like to see mirrored by the catholic community, as we want to move on and embrace a shared future and leave behind the men of violence.

    Until the catholic community can do the same, then we are stuck in the past.

  84. Except that Paisley regularly sided with Loyalists (such as the Ulster Workers’ Strike) and the DUP had members of the UVF in their ranks. And your community still supports the DUP.

  85. ‘Actually, they might have came from my community, but they were not protected, or harboured; in fact it was the community that turned against them, and rightly so.’

    Are you referring to the Shankill Butchers?

  86. Paisley never killed anyone.

    Neither have the dup ever been armed and killed thousands unlike your cowardly ira scumbags.

    My community supports democrats, not gangsters and murderers.

  87. Yes Seimi, the butchers were rejected and shunned by the community, and ultimately sacrificed even by the mainstream uvf.

  88. Also the DUP had no difficulty electing members of the PUP and UDP into high positions of Belfast City Council when the UVF and UDA were still actually killing people.

  89. seamy,

    full sentence: ‘Neither have the dup ever been armed and killed thousands unlike your cowardly ira scumbags.’

    So, your point?

  90. Is that different than sitting in government with sfira seamy?

    Is it ok to place sfira members into stormont, but not for loyalists to be elected to city council positions?

  91. The DUP have caused multiple deaths, had no difficulty in helping loyalists when the notion took them (all supported by your community), there were loyalists in the DUP etc etc.

    Additionally there is also the fact that the UVF was at one time in history the paramilitary wing of the UUP and your community kept voting for them.

    So we won’t be lectured by people like you on this issue.

  92. I didn’t say I had issue with it. You are the one who wants to exclude people. I’m just suggesting that you not be as bigoted and biased in it.

  93. Seamy,

    have caused multiple deaths.

    Hmmm.

    A rather poor attempt.

    The dup and the uup killed nobody.

    Loyalists were never supported by my community at the ballot box.

    Now, on the other hand, SFIRA, killed and received votes from your community and still do, even to convicted murderers,

    SICK.

  94. Seamy,

    I object to ANY terrorist in government.

    I want them to face justice for their crimes and shunned by society so we can move on and leave terrorism behind and embrace the future together within the wonderful UK .

  95. Well that isn’t true. Over 30,000 Unionists voted for them in 1996 and 1997.

    The UUP’s armed wing never killed anyone because the Government gave in to their terrorism.

    Also what convicted murderer is in the Assembly?

  96. Yet your community still voted for terrorists and their enablers in the DUP and UUP. They still vote for those enablers.

  97. 30k?as a percentage of the unionist vote, a very far cry from a majority, UNLIKE your rancid community who vote overwhelmingly for mass murderers.

    If you haven’t even the sense or wit to understand the scum you vote for and the murderers within the party, then Seamy, yet again, you are a complete and utter buffoon.

  98. How about Mary McArdle?

    Of course, a convicted IRA murderer in sinn fein is odd, isn’t it?

    not.

  99. ‘the butchers were rejected and shunned by the community, and ultimately sacrificed even by the mainstream uvf.’

    Where is your proof that they were rejected and shunned? They continued to live in the area, their families weren’t chased out, they weren’t ostracized. So how were they rejected and shunned?

    And do you consider their being set up by one set of paramilitaries for another set of paramilitaries to be justice!? You, who keeps going on about your alleged military background and your alleged fight for law and order??

    To paraphrase your good self:

    SICK.

  100. Whose conviction was overturned and thus is no longer a convicted murderer.

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any?

  101. Gerry Kelly was never convicted of murder. He was convicted of causing explosions and conspiracy to cause explosions.

    Also Mary McArdle isn’t a member of the Assembly and has never stood for election.

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any?

  102. Seimi,

    good try, but not good enough.

    I oppose all terrorism and condemn anything illegal. Unlike the catholic community.

    Thanks and goodnight.

  103. What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community votes for convicted murderers?

  104. What convicted murderer is in the Assembly?

    Mary McArdle is IN the assembly.

    Alongwith the absolute SCUM of the earth of bombers, shooters and lying cowardly low lifes.

    Take your pick and you can vote for some more seamy lad!

  105. She represents the sick scum of the SFIRA and those immoral individuals who vote for them.

    Goodnight.

  106. ‘Unlike the catholic community.’

    And that’s it in a nutshell, isn’t it? Pure, unadulterated, sectarian bigotry. It’s not Republicans, or Nationalists. It’s Catholics.

    Goodnight.

  107. Which of Northern Ireland’s 18 constituencies does Mary McArdle represent? You are the one who thinks she is an MLA.

  108. Seimi;

    FACT : A majority of catholics vote for sfira.

    Deal with it.

    Sweet dreams.

  109. seamy,

    an MLA?

    Never said such a thing. I said they received votes for convicted murderers.

    They did as they voted for mccartney a convicted murderer at the time, and didn’t put off your scummy voters.

    Add to this the appointment of mcardle and you and your community are contemptible beyond reason.

    Right, goodnight.

    Enjoy your terroristy worship!

  110. ‘FACT : A majority of catholics vote for sfira.’

    Sectarian bigot.

    Oíche mhaith.

  111. You said “still do”. So what convicted murderer do Sinn Féin still vote for?

    You also said that Mary McArdle was in the Assembly. What constituency does she represent?

  112. Raymond McCartney is not a convicted murderer. He had his conviction overturned.

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community still votes for convicted murderers?

  113. He is a convicted murderer, as is Mary McArdle.

    Raymond killed two police officers in cold blood, and was involved in the ira alongwith your other hero mcguinness, (you the one who couldn’t give evidence at the bloody unday enquiry because of him firing a machine gun that got the real army involved and ended up getting his wee gang’s balls rolled?)

    No I will definitely NOT retract the FACT that the majority of CATHOLICS, and a majority of nationalists do indeed vote for sfira scum, guilty of the most heinous crimes against all of humanity.

    Genocide should be punished in the Hague, alongside the likes of Milosevic.

  114. He isn’t a convicted murderer. His conviction was overturned in 2007, thus he is no longer convicted.

    Mary McArdle is a convicted murderer but isn’t a member of the Assembly nor has she ever stood for election.

    Also the IRA killed just over 1,700 people (over a 30 year period), of whom only 30% were civilians. Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t consider killing 500 people over a 30 year period wouldn’t count as a genocide.

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community still votes for convicted murderers?

  115. Ah seamy, son.

    Only 1,700? The very fact that you think this is anywhere near acceptable is very, very sick.
    Now, once more I have tolerated you, but it is time to CLEAN you once again.

    Have a look at PAUL BUTLER,(MLA and I’ll give you a clue, he is a member for Lagan Valley, and party leader in Lisburn council.

    Yes, he is a CONVICTED MURDERER.

    Oh dear Seamy lad, you must educate yourself and understand what animals you and your community vote for and support.

    Shameful.

    ’til next time! LMAO

  116. Paul Butler is not a member of the Assembly.

    Also I didn’t say 1,700 is acceptable. I said it wasn’t a Genocide.

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community still votes for convicted murderers?

  117. That website is incorrect. Paul Butler was the MLA for Lagan Valley until last year when he stood down.

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community still votes for convicted murderers?

  118. so he was elected by your community even despite his past.

    Now run along.

    I am off out its a wonderful day here.

  119. As Billy Hutchinson was by yours.

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community still votes for convicted murderers?

  120. Mary McArdle.

    I am not going around in circles with you seamy, you are dizzy enough.

    Your community voted in the last Assembly election for a convicted murderer. FACT.

    Now deal with it.

    The next election will depend on the candidates, but as everyone knows, even someone with a conviction for bombing/shooting/murder will be no impediment for the support they will receive.

    Have a nice day!

  121. Which of Northern Ireland’s 18 constituencies did Nationalists vote for Mary McArdle in?

    “Your community voted in the last Assembly election for a convicted murderer.”

    Who?

  122. So paul butler wasn’t elected then even though a convicted murderer?

    lol

    case closed.

    ‘Well cornered’ seamy lad…another embarrassment to add to the list.

    “Your community voted in the last Assembly election for a convicted murderer.”

    Answer ‘Paul Butler’

    I thank you.

    LMAO ach…getting too easy now.

  123. I ask again LU:

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community still votes for convicted murderers?

  124. Paul, seamy sons.

    Your community votes for mass murderers.

    Deal with it.

    Nighty night

    btw, the ladt asembly election he was eleceted even thought he was convicted.

    NO SHAME.
    LMAO

  125. LU, let’s all at least hope they do better than you did on this thread.

  126. Yeah, or I hope they surpass seamy’s performance and be embarassed as much.

    It would be almost as funny as Mary McArdle’s support from the catholics…eh?

    lmao

  127. oh by the way…..

    GET INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

    ONE NIL!

    GET THAT RIGHT INTO YOU REBEL SFIRA SUPPORTING SCUM!

    YE HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  128. Noel,

    yeah, because when the voters vote for a convicted murder it doesn’t count?

    Sincere condolences for your membership of the mope brigade.

    LMAO

  129. Paul son, your community voted in a CONVICTED MURDERER.

    GAME, SET AND MATCH.

    I hope the english b team don’t lose too much

    LMAO

  130. the lizard is no longer in the assembly…the convicted murder McArdle is…

    Also, the last election your community vored in a CONVICTED COMMUNITY.

    AND STILL YOU VOTE…

    SCUM.

  131. Paul,

    last elections, as I have exposed ad verbatim, Paul Butler, a CONVICTED MURDERER elected by your community.

    NO SHAME!

    I thank you.

    gift.

    Now, I want to watch the english b team in peace, see you tomorrow and sean from BIRMINGHAM is doin the OIRISH proud!

    SNIGGER LMAO

  132. Awk Paul, he didn’t get elected and leave in March last year?

    Would sinn fein have lies on their website? lol

    You are deluded and will probably believe that you are chinese.

    Just enjoying the English B team getting beat.

    FANTASTIC!

    Come on CROATIA, GET INTO THE MASS MURDERING HARBOURING SCUM.

  133. Yes, the last Assembly elections were in May 2011.

    You do understand that don’t you?

  134. I understand, and your community voted for bombers, murders, shooters and COMMANDERS of the IRA.

    Thanks.

    GIFT.

    LMAO

  135. “Just enjoying the English B team getting beat.

    FANTASTIC!

    Come on CROATIA, GET INTO THE MASS MURDERING HARBOURING SCUM.”

    totally agree Andrew, would be amusing if Shay Given was killed in freak accient like the crossbar collapsing lol!!!

  136. And just like that another prodigal son appears. Do I detect a pattern here?

  137. What constituency was Mary McArdle elected in LU?

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community still votes for convicted murderers?

  138. Whats the score ?

    loololololollolllloollollololololololololololololololololololololololololoo

  139. paul baaaabbbbyyy!

    voting for mass murderers can never be excused, but I AM LOVING this.

    The English B Team flounders

    IT IS GRRRRRRREEEEEtttttttttt!

    you like frosties?

    HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

  140. Just as well that Ireland are getting beat by Croatia otherwise you’d have nowhere to hide from the beating that you’re recieving on this thread eh?

  141. yeah, your scum voting for scum should be changed of course lol

    and of course butler, and the rest of your terrorists are worthy of your vote.

    Wallow on, and realise you are in the UK, and give thanks to the Queen and the UK that you are not in the free state, son.

  142. “Just as well that Ireland are getting beat by Croatia otherwise you’d have nowhere to hide from the beating that you’re recieving on this thread eh?”

    lol maybe you need another beating from a British soldier eh, like when you were a little snot nosed republican whelp..

  143. Paul,
    last elections, as I have exposed ad verbatim, Paul Butler, a CONVICTED MURDERER elected by your community.
    NO SHAME!
    I thank you.
    gift

    Wrong

    The lizard is no longer in the assembly…the convicted murder McArdle is…

    Wrong

    And you’re allegedly an academic?, (never proven), Where do you lecture / research Mickey Mouse University?

  144. actually brains, hutchy has been abandoned… unlike your community and your support for terrorists.

    Non stop support for scum.

    What is the score now for your false english B team?

    HAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

  145. Your community voted in the last Assembly election for a convicted murderer. FACT

    As did yours with Billy Hutchinson.

    Seamus cornered you with that and you ran away.

  146. LU

    What convicted murderer is in the Assembly? Can you name any? If you can’t will you please retract your comment that the Nationalist community still votes for convicted murderers?

  147. Seamy, weamy, what about the latest immoral appointment?

    Tch.

    We are trying to move on and here we are again with republicans being appointed to a sensitive position in (would you believe it, a victims role), whilst we are all trying to MOVE ON.

    Sad.

    It seems the ira and supporters still haven’t gone away you know…

  148. EH VIVA ESPANA!

    We beat them EASY, how will your English b team do?

    lol

Comments are closed.