53 2 mins 9 yrs

You might consider this an instance of criminal entrepreneuralism;

“A man was able to remove more than £40,000 from an Ulster Bank ATM in one day in the early stages of the computer meltdown, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal. The man, who is understood to be a foreign national and on benefits, is believed to have secured the sum after visiting a cash machine on the Shankill Road more than 80 times on the same day.”

Now then, let’s chuckle at the sheer criminal enterprise of this guy who must have been permanently attached to the ATM machine that day on the Shnakill Road but once we’ve finished chuckling consider the fact he isa “foreign national on benefits”. That’s right – he is here, like SO many, for the welfare. At a time when our welfare system is under extreme duress coping with the needs of our OWN people, we just cannot afford to be acting as a magnet for those like this foreign thief. Now had this been a local the crime would still be a crime and worthy of the same punishment (Whatever that will be? ) but the fact that this was a foreigner who has come here to claim benefits shines a little light into the devastating demographic changes put in place by our membership of the EU and the open borders agenda of the previous Labour government.

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  1. Reminds me a bit of the story of the Irishman who, desperate for work and prospects borrows enough money to get him to London, whose streets his friends assure him,
    “are paved with gold!”

    Tired and thirsty our Irish friend arrives in London; and as he steps off the train sees a half sovereign lying amongst the rubbish on the platform.
    He bends down to pick it up and then stops:
    “Sod it!” he says,
    “I’ll start tomorra!”

  2. “Why does any foreign national qualify for ” benefits ” in the first place?”
    It’s an expression of inverse superiority. We daren’t say,
    “Our system is better than your system, that’s why you came here.” because we don’t want to feel superior.

    So our guilt about being superior kicks in, and we give them benefits to assuage our consciences. 😉

  3. The man, who is understood to be a foreign national and on benefits

    That’s an interestingly ambigious phrase. Is the man an EU national of from a different continent?

    Either way his nationality is largely irrelevant to the story. I’d be surprised if anyone in Belfast wouldn’t have done the same thing if they were in a position to do soo.

  4. I know that there are honest people in Belfast but I doubt that anyone would have much sympathy for a bank losing money.

  5. If you take money improperly from an ATM, you’re a criminal, end of.

    And an idiot too, since they all have cameras.

  6. I didn’t say anything to the contrary Phantom I just said I’d be surprised that a Belfastonian wouldn’t have done the same thing given the chance.

  7. This is OT though related as it shows the kind of country which the UK is becoming. I was in the county of Angus visiting a friend last night and he mentioned something which I didn’t/couldn’t believe, but it turned out to be true:


    Edzell 70-year-old Dave Coull said he was flabbergasted by the arrival of two plain clothes officers at the door of his sheltered housing flat in the Angus village after a letter he wrote was published in The Courier.

    The bemused pensioner has vowed to go ahead with his one-man protest when the torch arrives in Courier Country on Tuesday, handing out leaflets he says highlight the modern era relay’s controversial connection to Nazi Germany.

    That link had been part of Mr Coull’s letter detailing the relay’s origins with the Berlin summer games of 1936, when ”the purpose was to glorify the power of the centralised state which was hosting the Olympics — and the glorious leadership of that state”.

  8. The ATW withdrawal symbolic. You are getting fleeced a lot more every day by scammers (homegrown and foreign) who abuse the benefits system to the extent that the system itself becomes their free ATM.

  9. That link had been part of Mr Coull’s letter detailing the relay’s origins with the Berlin summer games of 1936, when ”the purpose was to glorify the power of the centralised state which was hosting the Olympics — and the glorious leadership of that state”.

    Mr Coull is spot on, and because the peon dares speak the truth the local CID send a pair of heavies to intimidate him.

    What an apt protest in once-free Britain.

  10. ”Tayside Police fully support lawful protest and Mr Coull was contacted to establish the form of protest he was intending. We have no concerns about Mr Coull’s protest.”

  11. Tayside Police, in my opinion, has no business stating what it “fully supports”, or “supports just a bit”, or “has reservations about”, or “fully condemns”. Tayside Police exists to arrest criminals, not to announce its opinions. It’s opinions of anyone’s planned actions, whether supportive or not supportive, are irrelevant.

  12. Colm –

    The Police should not take a position on supporting or not supporting a protest in a supposedly free society.

    Mr Coull’s form of protest is none of their business while he does not harm or harrass others.

    Clearly the Tayside Police does have concerns about Mr Coull, otherwise they wouldn’t have sent a pair of badged goons to his home.

  13. Yes I agree it can appear a bit sinister but given that the police are expected to maintain the peace at events like this, it’s understandeable that they contact people who have made public intentions of expressing direct hostility at the event.

  14. Colm –

    I disagree. It’s not understandable. Unless Mr Coull has broken the law then the Police has no business contacting him. That’s how it works in supposedly free societies.

    I agree it’s understandable if your instinct is to support and glorify the State and collectivist serfdom, but screw that.

  15. Pete

    The police have a duty to maintain the peace and involve themselves in the community, not just stay in the shadows and only pop up act after a potential crime has been commited. I don’t fully support the decision to send 2 officers to his home but the statement issued by the police demonstrates a more benign situation than your alarmist ‘jackboot’ claims.

  16. Colm –

    And yet “staying in the shadows and only pop up act after a potential crime has been commited” is exactly how the police operates today. If Mr Coull were to report local crimes the police would not be interested, yet when he writes to a newspaper that he will protest a State spectacle they can’t speak with him quick enough. Let’s look at his letter:

    Sir, – In ancient Greece the Olympics was a competitive testing of athletes. The modern Olympics is a competition of political and corporate power.

    Cities are put under military occupation, thousands are evicted to make way for the venues, and unimaginable amounts of wealth are squandered.

    The Olympic torch relay was first used for the Berlin Olympics of 1936. The purpose was to glorify the power of the centralised state which was hosting the Olympics — and the glorious leadership of that state.

    That remains the purpose of the torch relay to this day. The propaganda chiefs have managed to involve many hundreds of people in the so-called ”honour” of carrying the torch for a short distance.

    Some of these people are disabled or have triumphed over adversity and many are worthy of admiration, but all of them are being used, quite cynically, by the state’s propaganda machine.

    I have learned the torch is due to pass through Montrose, Brechin, and Forfar on Tuesday June 12. No doubt there will be many people out cheering.

    I will be there to protest this fascist display.

    There is nothing in that letter which justifies State agents intruding into his life. He is also, clearly, a thoughtful and intelligent man. He has nailed the purpose of the modern Olympics and torch relay, and he pinpoints the violence necessary for thm to happen.

    However, the State cannot bear to be mocked and tinpot, local heavies are paranoid that the State will be mocked on their patch, hence a form of response which is entirely appropriate with 1936 Berlin tactics.

  17. Colm, I agree with what you say “on the surface” as it were, but I want to delve a little more into why your statement irritates me:
    When you say “The police have a duty to […] involve themselves in the community”, that presupposes that, by default, the police force is NOT already a part of the community, and that therefore it needs to take steps (such as issuing these sort of statements) in order to “involve” itself, to show that it is “at one” with the “community”.
    In this model, it’s as if “the citizens” and “the police” are to be recognised as two seperate entities: The citizens are “the free radicals”, doing as they please, and “the police” is by definition an extension of The State, enforcing State laws, against the natural will of the citizens.
    This may not be what you intended to imply, but even by saying “The police have a duty to […] involve themselves in the community”, that is what is implied.
    I think that we get into real danger if we succumb to the temptation to think of the police as part and parcel of the State (and even more danger if the police force itself is led to believe this).

  18. People disrupt public events, including the Olympics. If someone wants to protest the Olympics all well and good (I refer you to my boycott of Budweiser at the time of the Red Chinese Olympics, well documented here on ATW).

    But I think the cops here were following a protocol of checking out the nature of the protest which seems to be a harmless thing as an advance team checks out parade routes etc.

    As for the torch and the Nazis, I am shocked the loose connection would bother some here, but even so it is a bit like claiming you object to the volkswagon.

  19. “However the state cannot bear to be mocked…

    Oh what nonsense Pete. This is not North Korea or anything like it. Thousands of letters, phone in calls, conversations, media comments, protests, etc etc take place here in Britain in which political leaders/The state/Government local and national is mocked daily without fear. By all means complain about actions that you don’t like but stop using the childish language of ‘fascism’ where it really doesn’t exist.


    By ‘involve themselves in the community’ I meant precisely that wider natural interaction between the police and the rest of the community of which they are meant to be already part of. This can and should mean both knowing local people in a relaxed friendly informative manner and also being pro-actively aware of whatever is going on. Their role is not and should not be to just become involved in apprehending criminals after the event, but working with the rest of the law abiding population to prevent crime and maintain peace.

    There is a legitimate cause to be concerned about the visit to Mr Coulls home and to question the intention, I agree, but if they are simply talking to him to be reassured that he plans no physical interruption which could cause a breach of the peace then I think that is a reasonable explanation and a proper use of police activity.

  20. Colm –

    Where we disagree comes with your: “Their role is not and should not be to just become involved in apprehending criminals after the event, but working with the rest of the law abiding population to prevent crime and maintain peace.”

    My view of Mr Coull’s protest is simply that he is exercising his liberties to speak freely. Essentially, I see no difference between his protest and his letter, or (say) if he decided to grumble to his mates down the pub instead.

    On the other hand, you are associating his protest with potential criminality. It’s a link I don’t and cannot recognise. It implies that “protest”, the voicing of an opinion, is potentially criminal.

    That is not healthy.

  21. Pete

    I am not associating his protest with potential criminality . Indeed the police themselves do not consider anything potentially criminal about his protest and have no concerns or issues about it. They are not preventing him from exercising that liberty to speak freely. If they warned him not to go near the event or pressured him to stay away then yes that would be an abuse of their role, but even in his interview he has not suggested they made any threats at all.

  22. Colm –

    Clearly you are associating his protest with potential criminality. For this reason you often cited, on this thread and in defence of the police, the requirement of the police “to prevent crime and maintain peace”. Why use such phrases otherwise?

    Clearly the police did consider his actions to be potentially criminal. If not, they wouldn’t have sent a couple of badged goons to check him out.

  23. Although not strictly on-topic, I have to point out that you would have to be a total nerk, to write a letter to your local paper, giving your full name and address, if you were planning to do anything illegal.
    In that respect, surely the mere publication of Mr Coull’s letter, along with his name and address, ought to have been enough to reassure the police that whatever he was planning would not be illegal. (At least, you’d think so, I suppose!)

  24. There’s a bit more to the Olympic torch than in previous times. The ‘Torch’ has a corporate sponsor and this sponsor – Coca-Cola – is not without influence. Coca-Cola doesn’t want anything marring the triumphal passage of its latest acquisition through the UK. The authorities exhort the people to come and see the ‘Torch’ and out they come in their millions. Having some ‘extremist’ pointing out the pagan and nazi origins of the ‘Torch’ might not be good publicity for Coca-Cola so the police will be requested to protect the asset.

    As far as I’m aware, the Dundee Courier is privately owned and not a corporate.

    Another point is that I didn’t actually believe what my friend told me. Seriously – you send letter to a local newspaper which is duly published as is usual for local newspapers, and the FBI (Criminal Investigation Department in the UK) send a couple of agents round to ‘check up on you’. That’s not good, and let’s not pretend that it would have happened 20 years ago: it wouldn’t have.

  25. They didn’t kick his door in, beat him up and threaten him. So the goons claim is specious. Nobody ran round and destroyed the printing press at the paper. His family wasn’t rounded up. He was deneied the right ot write more letters or to protest. The yhave a major crowd control issue and made an inquiry as to the nature of his protest, seems quite civilized.

  26. Tom – Try this – pure hypothetical- guy writes a letter (and can we admit a tad overreaching one) about his planned protest, cops don’t go to make an inquiry and he viciously attacks the runner. Then ATW’s story would be how the cops ignored the published intent of a madman?

  27. Pete

    No, I don’t clearly associate his protest with potential criminality regardless of however many times you say so. Are you claiming that the police must only ever talk to another citizen in connection with potential criminality. They can talk to individuals/ groups purely to ensure the smooth organisation of various events as they do every day in connection with all sorts of public gatherings.

  28. Mahons, what on earth is this, Spielberg’s “Minority Report”? The cops are there to nab crooks after the event, not to predetermine or second-guess criminality in advance. Once you start accepting that kind of role, you may as well hook up Orwell’s telescreen in your apartment.

  29. Pre-Crime 🙂 I think that was the name of the police unit in Minority Report, and it is a pertinent point. Nonetheless, the journey of the Olympic Torch does indeed have its origins in nazi Germany and I’m sure that the organisers and sponsors would not want this fact to see the light of day on the TV screens or national newspapers. I’m sure that Coca-Cola has enough clout to see that its asset is suitably protected. That’s what police are for!

  30. Tom

    You have it completely the wrong way around. The role of the police is essentially to PREVENT crime. They were established to help maintain order and protect their oclaity from crime. Having to nab crooks after the event is a manifestation of policing failure.


    Coca-Cola wouldn’t be owned by J*** by any chance ? 😉

  31. Colm 1031

    Spot on with that policing comment

    Highly successful police work is very largely proactive in nature

    After the fact policing is defeatist and ineffective

  32. Colm –

    Yes, that’s all quite clear.

    A) The police are required to prevent crime with proactive policing and, in an astonishing break with the usual modus operandi, were ensuring that failure was averted by not having to nab anyone after a crime was committed.

    B) The police never thought that Mr Coull would commit a crime.

  33. Pete

    For a man who claims to know about English traditions, you don’t seem very clued up on the rationale behind the existence of our police forces.

  34. Colm, it’s truly frightening that you actually think in that way. Really frightening.
    I ought also to be frightened by Phantom’s endorsement of that comment, and I would be terrified of it, if I did not already have him marked down as a defender of the Orwellian 1984 State.
    Truly, you two, open your minds up, and start thinking as free human beings ought to think. Your unthinking, automatic willingness to surrender your ownership of your lives unto the State is truly terrifying.

  35. Having to nab crooks after the event is a manifestation of policing failure.

    Yes – the police really excelled in this instance, by stopping those crooks who, it must be said, did give themselves away by sending a letter to a local newspaper which was published with their address. But one can sleep happily in Scotland knowing that there is no other crime going on – nothing to have diverted the attentions of the two plain-clothes officers from their ‘pre-crime’ duties.

    What has become of the police and policing in general? They spend more time stealing money from the public through their road traffic scams than in getting after real criminals. Now, they are simply an enforcement arm for Coca-Cola.

  36. Phantom:
    Ha, yes, HAH. Try and actually debate the point, rather than just issuing your idiotic “Hah!” – any stupid fool can say “Hah!”.

  37. I never said that you said “heh”, Phantom, I said that you said “hah”. Whatever, never mind, as Kurt said. Stop saying “heh” or “hah” or “hih” or “huh”, whatever the crap you said.

  38. That’s nice. Keep on being a total blowhard on economics, and I’ll keep on giving you such comments. (Nice to see that you’re a Nirvana fan, having said that).

  39. It’s not “science” at all, Phantom. Actually, we all do “economics” in our daily lives, it’s just that we do not always recognise it.
    When my previous computer conked out, I went fist to the company “PC World” for a replacement, and finding their prices a bit too high, I went next door to Comet, and then to an independent retailer, until I found what I wanted. This was me, driving a hard bargain in the big bad capitalist world, until I found what was a bargain for me, and in turn, the retailer found a bargain for his business, and so we struck a deal, and here we are. “Everyone’s a winner”, as Del Boy says.

  40. …But, really, I have got to say, if you need a religion, then consider Christianity.
    If you accept Christianity, then all well and good. But assuming that you do NOT accept it, then please, Statists, please do not try and “throw your religion of Statism down our throats”. At least, allow the atheists to truly BE atheists. Don’t try and force any kind of “religion” such as “global warming” down their throats, please.
    I can cope with the modern atheists ridiculing Christianity, just so long as they don’t attempt to replace Christianity with their own “religions”. Let atheism really MEAN atheism, give me that, at least.

  41. Allan – I thought you would welcome Nazis traditions.

    Tom – Nonsense. Good police work anticipate problems so as to avoid crime or disruption before it happens.

  42. Even in older times the ” cop on the beat ” was a vsible comfort to the community – and a visible message to the bad guys to behave.

    Ideally you don’t arrest anyone as no crime is committed.

  43. Tom,
    Christianity leads us to salvation and the fruits of the Spirit in our lives are evidence that our salvation is real. We are told how to live in society and regarding this thread, Christian morality (or any other religious/philosophic morality) makes us better citizens.
    The police are there to uphold the law, but the teaching of morality should make their task easier!
    It is because we have rejected (especially) Christian morality that the Police are struggling.

  44. So the commentators who live in the ‘land of the free’ are united in praising the police for their intervention which prevented a crime. Which ‘crime’ was prevented?

    I can understand Coca-Cola not wanting the general public (or at least, those who still have their own minds) to be informed of the origins of the national tour of the Olympic Torch, but I wouldn’t classify it as a crime; more of a public service.

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