63 1 min 9 yrs

or do you just want rhetoric? Watch the 11 min. I know that exceeds a large portion of your attention span, but it might help you understand.

We have people that come here on a daily basis that “know everything” yet they prove daily they understand nothing.

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63 thoughts on “Do you want to understand,

  1. From the White House to the Leftist Progressives at ATW, statists just don’t want to admit they’re on the wrong track.

    As for the too-cynical-to-vote crowd on ATW – because Ron Paul can’t win or something- they’re losers.

  2. With such a warm post I was looking forward to watching that, but 11 minutes is too much for me.

  3. “A real person…who ‘gets’ it”? Does Cruz ‘get’ the private control of money through the Federal Reserve? Until Cruz ‘gets’ that, he gets nothing. Likewise for the TEA Party. Btw, do any of them advocate reduction of American wars overseas?

  4. “We have people that come here on a daily basis that “know everything” yet they prove daily they understand nothing.”

    And most people on the site would put you and Patty in that group.

  5. “Watch the 11 min. I know that exceeds a large portion of your attention span, but it might help you understand.”

    You really know how to persuade people with gentle flattery don’t you Troll ? 😉

  6. Pete: you had time to link to articles on Ron Paul from 2007 but you don’t have 11 minutes to perhaps learn why Troll and I think you’re wrong about the Tea Party?

  7. Patty –

    “Pete: you had time to link to articles on Ron Paul from 2007 …”

    I linked to one article, one news piece and one collection of TV reports, each on how the TP started among Ron Paul’s base in 2007. Have a look at them for goodness sake. What is so wrong with learning a little recent history? Conservatives have long pointed the finger at the Left for historical revisionism, but that’s precisely what you’re doing now.

    And what on earth am I going to learn from an interview on MSNBC? What is being said there that I won’t know already or can dismiss? Some TP stuff? I told you, I’ve been watching Ron Paul for years and I saw how that movement began. Look, it’s a Troll post. I know what Troll posts are:

    GOP = great, Obama = bad.

    You’re going to tell me that 50% of the country is TP? If they’re going to vote for Romney then they’re bullshitters. Romney = more war, more death, more taxes, more spending, more corruption and more liberties curtailed.

    Patty, the Grand Old Plunderers have been lying to you all your life and here you are, still coming back for more. When have you had enough? How often are you willing to be betrayed?

  8. I did read your link, Pete – and I was interested to see the reference to the Tea Party – but that isn’t exactly the same Tea Party that we are talking about —

    The Tea Party is not a monolithic movement stuck in one moment of time – it is a growing dissatisfaction with Statism – and yes, about 50% share this dissatisfaction while about 50% are on board with Obama’s Progressive statism – that’s the argument that we, as a nation, are having.

    Do we embrace the European statist model with its safety net or do we go back to our constitutional limited govt. roots? That’s the question.

    “the Grand Old Plunderers have been lying to you all your life” Please don’t confuse me with Daphne. For much of my life, I was a Democrat and a very liberal Democrat, at that. It took 9/11 and the wealth of info. and debate on the web to wake me up from my statist, well-meaning stupor. I don’t feel betrayed by the GOP – I feel they are the only hope, warts and all.

  9. Do Tea Party people who want to protect and continue Medicare –a huge, expensive, social program – do they make any sense to you?

    These guys want to protect what is theirs, and to cut or deny services to everyone else.

    It is the usual self interest.

  10. The truth of the matter is that the only way Obama and his failed policies win in 2012 is with a disenchanted Republican base that refuses to come out and vote.

    That is the Democrat hope – and of course the goal of much of the propaganda we read – the goal is to discourage the Republican opposition voting so a significant percent don’t bother at the polls.

    You play into this propaganda when you urge me to just give up in disgust and sorrow – betrayed! if only I would stay home then Obama could win!

    Daphne pushes this propaganda as well, which makes me wonder about her. She hates (supposedly) the Progressive Dem. statism – and she is betrayed by the GOP – so she won’t vote – and this helps to elect Obama.

    Square this circle and then maybe I’ll think you have a point – until then you just seem immature in your political views.

  11. Obama didn’t create Social Security. Or Medicare.

    And it was your GW Bush who proposed and implemented the prescription benefit.

    He owns some of this pig, but not all of it.

    And the Tea Party is a confused mess. They’re generally as much statists as anyone else, where it concerns benefits to THEMSELVES.

  12. Phantom: the Tea Party wants free market solutions to take care of the cost of the healthcare insurance – end of story.

    afterall, the problem is not with our healthcare – its with the cost of insurance – you should know this, it’s your industry.

    the Tea Party knows that only the free market can lower the cost –

    but your side only recognizes Big Gov. solutions – as if replacing the state insurance company monopolies with one huge federal monopoly is going to lower cost for anybody – what a joke –

    regarding Medicare – many have paid into the system and face retirement – what to do with this group – noone in the Tea Party wants to throw grandma out onto the street without something she’s been counting on for so many years – this is not contradictory with free market future solutions – if you can’t understand this, I can’t help you.

    govt. monopolies increase the cost, the waste, the corruption.

  13. “He owns some of this pig, but not all of it” So f…ng what? what does it matter??

    Regarding the Tea Party – you haven’t got a clue. Look, Troll’s video is from your favorite station, MSNBC – watch it. You might learn something.

  14. Patty –

    “Do we embrace the European statist model with its safety net or do we go back to our constitutional limited govt. roots? That’s the question.”

    And your answer is: “more regulatory welfare statism please”. The US is as statist as any European country and its techno-police state is much more advanced than in any country over here. The GOP is as responsible as the Democrats for this.

    You just had the opportunity to campaign and vote for “constitutional limited government”, but you said his conservative foreign policies put you off.

  15. I don’t agree, Pete.

    I think the Palin Tea Party strategy of electing constitutional conservative down stream – winning the Senate back and packing it with Tea Party types if possible – is an excellent strategy.

    I think your disillusionment with politics as usual is touching but about as relevant as your point that the GOP is as craven and responsible for the mess in Washington DC as the Dems.

    what else is new? yes, politics sucks. yes, the Progressives suck. and yes, the establishment Republicans are basically Dem-lite, and they suck too. This is not news nor is it new.

    Unlike Daphne, I don’t feel “betrayed.” This is too immature for me. It’s silly. And your bitter clinging 🙂 to Ron Paul is touching but also a bit silly. What is the point??

  16. The Tea Party types want the free market and the Constitution as long as the free market and the Constitution do what they want them to. When the Constitution gets in the way of their beliefs they have as much a tendency to ignore it as the non Tea Party types.

  17. Patty –

    Read up, it was you who brought Ron Paul into the thread.

    Look, the point about him and his campaign now is this: he’s the most conservative and incorruptible man who ever went to Washington, he understands money and economics like only a student of von Mises could, and Congress has never had such a champion of the Constitution.

    He offered everything supposed conservatives talk about, and what did they choose? The fascistic, collectivist, warmonger Romney. The conclusion is crystal clear: American conservatives are bullshitters.

    Don’t tell me now about the TP and liberty and free markets. You just had the opportunity to back the rhetoric with action and, instead, you voted against those things.

  18. Ron Paul’s degree is in medicine. It is not in economics, or even business.

    Has he even taken any courses in economics?

  19. Ron Paul had the good sense to avoid “a course” in economics.

    Instead, he spent his life actually studying economics, chiefly the works of the the greatest of all economists, Ludwig von Mises and his analysis of business cycles.

    It’s because Ron Paul has a deep understanding of economics and business cycles that he was the one man in Congress who predicted the great recession and why it would happen well before time.

    (With apologies to Phantom, who has been told this twenty times before)

  20. Has anyone seen his birth cert? I know he says he was born in the US but hmmmm… that could be just what he wants us to think!

  21. If you predict recession for long enough, one year you will be right.

    He’s been predicting hyperinflation for three years or more and there is no sign of that.

    He’s like Joe the Plumber, who talks a good game but who never bothered to do the coursework and apprenticeship to become a certified plumber. I wouldn’t let Joe the Plumber work in my house, and I wouldn’t let Ron Paul anywhere near my economic policy.

    They are both amateurs.

  22. He was a foreign correspondent from the Middle East for a few days. That was really good.

  23. Phantom – you reckon that jamie Dimon is a real professional then? The kind of honest guy who is busy saving the US economy?

  24. He majored in economics at Tufts.

    Unlike the congressman who never took economics and who never worked in any financial or economic field, public or private, Dimon actually knows something about money.

  25. Apparently I’ve gotten well under Miss Patty’s west coast skin.

    A good sign.

    If a progressive liberal can make the drastic move to fascist conservatism, there’s great hope for an intelligent transformation into a conscious mix of civil libertarianism broad stroked with a cranky minor in anarchism, all underwritten with a solid foundation in classical liberalism.

    It took me well over twenty years to open my shaded eyes. Patty’s a quick study, I expect to see a drastic political transformation in her ideology by 2016, if we’re still around to give witness.

    Yes, Jamie Dimon is a serious crook. The man should be sent to prison for the rest of his natural life.

  26. Some entertaining freaking out accusations by Max Keiser there, but Mr Simon’s name was not even mentioned

  27. fascism is also leftist not conservative.

    Reading the comments on here do more to prove my point than anything. Phantom Medicare is Broke plus Obama stole half of it’s funding for his program, Social Security is broke. The TEA Party doesn’t want to end either of these programs just make the financially viable. So according to Pete that means that their socialists.

    As for Ron Paul I’ve said it 1000 times and I’ll say it again he’s a fraud followed only by idiots.

    You people can refuse to acknowledge what the TEA Party is about, it’s not surprising. The idea of common sense in government combined with fiscal responsibility is beyond your grasp. You continue to prove that each and everyday.

    In November the seats of power will change. Will the things that get done be perfect? No, but they will be steps in the right direction.

    Industries will be freed up, programs will be trimmed, changes will take place.

    Things will get better, they will get better from some plain simple practical steps, it won’t be nirvana and there will still be major problems, but I guarantee you you will not have 41 months of real unemployment above 14% like we have had under Obama.

    We have American and foreign idiots right here on this thread that are aching for and would like to assign revolutionary movements to the TEA Party and to American Politics.

    That is not going to happen, the adults will take back control and turn the ship back on course, but we will have idiots to contend with also McCain, Grahm, Boehner, and a host of other Institutionalized beltway fools.

    I guarantee that by this time in the Romney Administration he won’t be touting 163,000 job creation as victory when in the same month 178,000 jobs were lost as Obama did today.

    But you guys and gal keep babbling, each day you reveal more and more the depth of your bile and ignorance. It will just continue to make the upcoming victory sweeter and sweeter

  28. Daphne –

    Yes, they’re fair points about Patty. I assumed that she’s a lifelong Republican still mesmerised by the party propaganda. As you say, there’s hope yet.

  29. OK Phantom – we’ll switch off our brains and assume for a moment that an honset man, Jamie Dimon, got to the top of a kleptocratic system through the sheer force of his honetsy. But here are more specific accusations:


    So should Dimon be regarded as a national hero? Not if past conduct is any gauge. Besides the recent $3 billion in JPMorgan losses, which look more like illegal speculation than legal hedging, there is JPM’s use of its conflicting positions as clearing house and creditor of MF Global to siphon off funds that should have gone into customer accounts, and its responsibility in dooming Lehman Brothers by withholding $7 billion in cash and collateral. There is also the fact that Dimon sat on the board of the New York Federal Reserve when it lent $55 billion to JPMorgan in 2008 to buy Bear Stearns for pennies on the dollar. Dimon then owned nearly three million shares of JPM stock and options, in clear violation of 18 U.S.C. Section 208, which makes that sort of conflict of interest a felony.

    Financial analyst John Olagues, a former stock options market maker, points out that the loan was guaranteed by $55 billion of Bear Stearns assets. If Bear had that much in assets, the Fed could have given it the loan directly, saving it from being swallowed up by JPMorgan. But Bear did not have a director on the board of the NY Fed.

    Olagues also notes that JPMorgan received an additional $25 billion in TARP payments from the Treasury, which were evidently paid off by borrowing from the NY Fed at a very low 0.5%; and that JPM executives received some very large and highly suspicious bonuses called Stock Appreciation Rights and Restricted Stock Units (complicated variants of employee stock options and restricted stock). In 2009, these bonuses were granted on the day JPMorgan stock reached its lowest value in five years. The stock quickly rebounded thereafter, substantially increasing the value of the bonuses. This pattern recurred in 2008 and 2012.

    Olagues has evidence of systematic computer-generated selling of JPMorgan stock immediately prior to and on the dates of the granted equity compensation. Collusion to manipulate the stock to accommodate the grant of options is called “spring-loading” and is a violation of SEC Rule 10 b-5 and tax laws, with criminal and civil penalties.

  30. Dimon is a world class executive

    The recent trading losses are mainly a matter between he and his shareholders.

    There is no evidence here or anywhere else that he has done anything illegal, or anything close to it.

    There are problems with bank and other FI trading etc, of continuing dangers to the world system, but they wont be solved by calling every banker a ” criminal ” in the absence of knowledge or evidence.

  31. Every banker is a criminal because the system of privately-controlled, debt-created money with usury is criminal. The reason why Dimon and his peers won’t be indicted is because the banks own the justice system and the political system:


    Top BUSH 2004 contributors

    Morgan Stanley $603,480 Merrill Lynch $586,254 PricewaterhouseCoopers $514,250 UBS AG $474,325 Goldman Sachs $394,600 Lehman Brothers $361,525 MBNA Corp $350,350 Credit Suisse Group $326,040 Citigroup Inc $320,820 Bear Stearns $313,150

    Top OBAMA 2008 contributors

    University of California $1,648,685 Goldman Sachs $1,013,091 Harvard University $878,164 Microsoft Corp $852,167 Google Inc $814,540 JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799 Citigroup Inc $736,771

    Top ROMNEY 2012 contributors

    Goldman Sachs $636,080 JPMorgan Chase & Co $502,874 Morgan Stanley $476,300 Bank of America $465,850 Credit Suisse Group $421,310 Citigroup Inc $345,265 Barclays $322,400 Kirkland & Ellis $295,042 Wells Fargo $276,700

  32. Dimon is a world class executive

    “Questions swirl around the character and timing of Dimon’s disclosures to shareholders. Given the widespread speculation about JPMorgan’s potential losses, which proved to be accurate, it raises the question of why people outside of JPMorgan were more aware of JPMorgan’s risk and potential losses than Jamie Dimon claims to have been. His public estimates of losses have been a fraction of reality, and it raises the issue of whether he has materially misled stockholders.”

    Janet Tavakoli

    “JPMorgan Raises Fraud Questions: Rising Trading Losses Top $5.8 Billion”

    Huffington Post

    July 16, 2012

    Is that what it takes to be a “world class executive”?

  33. Allan

    Every banker is a criminal

    You’ve got nothing aside from blog fueled ignorance

    He basically got Chase out of toxic mortgage CDOs before they blew up. Include that in your honest assessment od Dimon

  34. Toxic mortgage CDOs, and these were created by nature? Toxic mortgage CDOs were created by the banks and offloaded onto the customers of the banks, and the banks do not dispute this. All that remains is to determine whether it was a criminally fraudulent policy or simply some of the to-ing and fro-ing of that most honest of activities:


    – A federal judge dismissed part of a U.S. securities regulator’s lawsuit against the only individual charged in a JPMorgan Chase & Co case that led to the bank’s $153.6 million settlement of civil fraud charges.

    – JPMorgan is one of three banks to settle major SEC fraud cases over CDOs in the last 16 months. Goldman Sachs Group Inc reached a $550 million accord in July 2010 and Citigroup Inc last week reached a $285 million accord that still requires court approval. The banks did not admit wrongdoing.

    – Evidence in the case suggested that JPMorgan bankers pushed the CDO onto clients so it could move toxic mortgage debt off its books. –

  35. Petr – those at the top are.If they weren’t, they wouldn’t get to the top. The entire sector is a criminal enterprise. And because they can create the money from nothing, they can buy everything and everybody whereas the rest of us have to work to get our share of what trickles down into the real economy.

  36. Colm, on August 4th, 2012 at 7:10 am Said: Edit Comment
    Do you even consider the possibilty that Obama might win ?

    LOL… NO

  37. Allan,

    “because they can create the money from nothing”

    Obviously if they could really create money from nothing there’d be no need for the rest of the rigmarole would there?

  38. keep telling yourself that Petr.

    in 2008 I was fringe in 2012 I’m just one of the crowd…..

    You see some things are like gravity… all they need is a push, and without knowing what he did Obama gave the country that push

  39. Frank – what do think ‘Quantitative Easing’ is?


    On Tuesday, Senator Bernie Sanders office released a report titled “Banks Play Shell Game with Taxpayer Dollars” that sheds a bit light on the shady ways the Fed conducts its business. Sanders “found numerous instances during the financial crisis of 2008 and 2009 when banks took near zero-interest funds from the Federal Reserve and then loaned money back to the federal government on sweetheart terms for the banks.”

    So, now we have irrefutable proof that the Fed was simply handing out money to the banks. More importantly, the report shows that this was not just a few isolated incidents, but a pattern of abuse that increased as the needs of the banks became more pressing. In other words, giving away money became policy. Is it any wonder why the Fed has fought so ferociously to prevent an audit of its books?

    From Sander’s report: “The banks pocketed interest on government securities that paid rates up to 12 times greater than the Fed’s rock bottom interest charges, according to a Congressional Research Service analysis conducted for Sanders.”

    Are you kidding me; 12 times more than what the Fed was getting in return?

    That’s larceny, my friend. Grand larceny. –

  40. But the kleptocratic clique which controls the UK’s money wouldn’t wish to miss out on such a windfall as ‘Quantative Easing’:


    It is all smoke and mirrors, allowing the Cuntservatives to reward their richest backers whilst pillaging the country in order to find the money.

    The implications of this revaluation are huge:
    ■ that all the big British commercial banks are effectively bankrupt.
    ■the Stress tests are a fraud designed to deceive the public, into a false sense of security. This is to avoid a run on the commercial banks.
    ■That the toxic credit default swaps fraud, created by Goldman Sachs is still running

    Well, the Government will rely on its lap dog press to distract the public from the real issues. Like this morning’s claim in the Torygraph that there was no money left for tax cuts.

  41. Allan,

    Obviously if they could really create money from nothing there’d be no need for the rest of the rigmarole would there?

  42. Troll,

    I couldn’t give a fiddlers who wins the election. Just pointing out how absolutely wrong you got it in 2008. You might get it right this time, you’ve a 50/50 chance!

  43. Petr,

    “you’ve a 50/50 chance”

    According to the bookies and intrade etc, more like 42/58 (with that number so far steadily increasing ever since Romney began his campaign!)

  44. I think the man spoke a lot of sense.
    Government IS far too big. It is out of control. It is so entwined/involved with the economy that it can’t take impartial/detached decisions anymore.

    The powers and influence of the Federal government means that it is becoming part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    Defence research and development is also out of control, because your government is awarding big contracts wads of taxpayer’s cash to armaments companies to develop weapons systems whose effectiveness may not be incrementally worth the costs involved.
    Finally, watching the clip and all the pundits chipping in, it is clear that another industry has sprung up around “the news”, and “the news” is all that matters..
    This too, creates an inertia that paralyses real debate, because it is keeping up with “the news” that matters; not acting on the news.
    I could see that bunch of talking heads doing the same thing on the very edge of catastrophe!

    “Well Ben, we have reports coming in that the Chinese have just nuked Los Angeles, and the anthrax cloud has –

    Sorry to cut in there George, but we have breaking news that in fact, Los Angeles AND Hollywood have been hit..

    Mary, you wanted to say something….”

  45. at least A8 understood the point.

    Petr your a commie no one really gives your point of view any weight anyway, at least no one that matters…

  46. Well,
    thank you Troll.
    I watched it TWICE!
    That Senator Coburn said himself that whilst he remains a Republican, he embraces the principles of the Tea Party movement.

    As the Senator says,
    “I don’t think you folks get it!”
    The real balance of power that our Fathers wanted, is that we the people hold the government accountable” (4.21>)

    The USA and the UK are in the same dilemma:
    We can vote for this party or that party. However, there is no ALTERNATIVE to big government…

  47. Somewhat on topic, this is a kickstarter project from Tim Worstall that many here might find interesting:

  48. it would be an interesting book to read frank, I tend to lean that he would find to make progress in the directions and efficiencies he is aiming to point out the “the local control” would be the best method.

    The fight is wrestling that control from the inside the beltway crowd

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