50 1 min 9 yrs

Keynesians rejoice! Your faith in the economic blessings of destruction has been answered.

It will take many months and many billions of dollars to recover. Along the way, much capital and production will need to be diverted from what would have been economically productive enterprises. All this, simply to replace what was there before. Yep, it’s our old friend the broken window fallacy, this time writ large.

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50 thoughts on “MANY BROKEN WINDOWS

  1. I’d pull this posting if I were you Pete.
    It’s highly contentious, considering what’s just happened….

  2. Not worth responding to.

    He is good boy but a complete economic and political illiterate

    And he wonders why no one in the UK or US sees things his way

  3. Bad timing! – this is hardly the time for a philosophical debate on such an esoteric topic. The hurricane has barely left the area, and here you are trying to make political capital from it!

    You are so out-of-touch with your readership, limited though it is, anyone would think you were a politician!!

  4. Well, if this lawsuit succeeds, there will be $43 trillion returned by the banking cartel to the American to pay for the damages and reconstruction. In this lawsuit are laid out clearly and completely the criminal undertakings of the banking cartel, of which ‘honest’ Jamie Dimon is a core member. This should be in the news, but it isn’t. It did feature on CNBC, but got pulled for some reason. The RICO Acts don’t just cover the Italian mafia:

    http://occupycorporatism.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/43-Trillion-Ponzi-Scheme.pdf

    1. This lawsuit arises from, among other things: (1) the deception in inducingPlaintiffs to enter into loans and mortgages1from approximately 2003 through 2007 and which were acquired or are serviced by Defendants; (ii) the fraudulent and illegal use of MERS andother “camouflage entities”in connection with those loans and mortgages; (iii) Defendants’ breach of Plaintiffs’ statutorily protected rights; (iv) Defendants’ breach and willful violation of numerous consumer and homeowner protection statutes, and willful violations of unfair business practices statutes, by, among other things, processing money from unknown sources, in contravention of the Patriot Act and the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act; (v)accepting money, transferring alleged assets and foreclosing upon alleged assets in instances where the alleged assets do not exist, and in which these Defendants have no right, title, or interest upon which they can act; and (vi) Defendants’ continuing conversion and other tortious conduct intended to deprive Plaintiffs of their money, property and legal rights and remedies for the foregoing acts, as described more fully below.(Hereinafter “Defendants’ Scheme.”)

    2. The Defendants scheme was and continues to be a gigantic international moneylaundering, “ponzi” and racketeering enterprise in which Defendants – and each of them as setforth herein – deceived, defrauded, stole, laundered, transferred, hypothecated (collectively“ponzi” enterprise)and then increased the level of theft by stealing from the United States of America and injecting into the ponzi enterprise a grand total (including monies stolen from all plaintiffs) of $43-Trillion ($43,000,000,000,000.00) through the foregoing acts, through the acts set forth herein, and through supplemental acts continuing and ongoing as recently as the dayprior to filing this complaint as follows (a) the deception in inducing Plaintiffs to enter into loansand mortgages and loan modification agreements and compromise agreements and otherundertakings of any and all kinds and nature, from approximately 2003 through and includingthe date of this First Amended Complaint, and (b) the fabrication of documentation, charges,lawsuits, investigations and other modalities againstthe founders of Plaintiffs’ counsel in thismatter, lawyers throughout the United States, and any persons who were opposed to the theft of the entirety of at least 10X the United States of America’s entire money supply($43 trillion), all pertaining to the ponzi and racketeering schemes and money laundering intentions by the defendants as follows:

  5. I believe everyone deserves a fair hearing*, and whilst Pete and I rarely agree after reading the parable he refers to, I find myself agreeing with (what I think)is his main point. Namely that although the clear up and window replacement provides work for some people, overall the losses in economic productivity far outweighs it.
    * A trait often associated with English people I am told..)

  6. No Bernard, now is exactly the time to be reminded that Keynesians laud the (non-existent) economic blessings of destruction.

  7. Yes, I saw Keynesians dancing in the streets over the death and destruction and chanting “moore, moore, moore.”

  8. Being only mildly conversant in American Law, do I perhaps see, a long way down the line; a ‘Plea Bargain’?

    Allan@ has a point, however, in that this lawsuit didn’t feature much on any news outlet which I read or watch. Conspiracy? Possibly; but just think of the legal fees1

  9. And right on cue!

    Someone at Yahoo Finance has only gone and written of the “economic boost” to come for communities from Hurricane Sandy.

    (Note to self: never take any advice from Yahoo Finance.)

  10. Mike – the lawsuit did feature on CNBC, but was withdrawn before the day was out noting that the CEO of CNBC’s Digital Media section had his two children murdered by a nanny who then tried to kill herself by cutting her own throat. Usually, throats are cut by somebody else. It is a very rare method of suicide especially for a woman. Here is where the info is found including screenshots of the report which CNBC withdrew:

    http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.de/2012/10/43-trillion-dollar-suit-against-us-govt.html

  11. Phantom, on October 30th, 2012 at 6:11 pm Said:
    Simple human decency is rarely to be found in the soul of an extremist

    What a fraud this guy is. I showed conclusive evidence from the FDA’s own site that 100,000 Americans die every year from adverse drug reactions (ADRs) to the highly-profitable toxins peddled by the pharmaceutical corporates and Phantom’s response:

    Of course they are big money earners: They are in the business of making money

    So if your relatives are among those who died from a prescription from a bought-and-paid-for GP, too bad.

  12. I don’t like this whole attitude of “now is not the right time to post such an article”.
    This is the internet, and this is a website for political and economic debate.
    Sure, if I was in someone’s household in NY right now, a household which had been destroyed by Sandy, I might not want to bring up this issue about economics. But this is a forum intended for such issues. When is the right time to post about them – ten months later? No, that’s rubbish. If you feel that now is an “insensitive” time to read such a post, then don’t read it. Simple. Pete is making a valid economic point, because now is the time when that point is going to be argued by the Keynesians.

  13. Tom – He has a right to post it and others have a right to denounce him on it. if he doesn’t want the criticism, he doesn’t have to write it.

  14. We have a few sociopaths here.

    May as well admit it.

    There’s been very little honest siscussion of any economica here, lets face it. At best, there has been ignorant shouting from time to time.

  15. Fair enough, Mahons (and I’m glad you and your family are safe, by the way!) But my point is, we shouldn’t denounce an internet article just because it seems insensitive or badly timed. There are genuine questions which outsiders are asking, such as, are the Presidential candidates trying to make capital out of this? And, if I post a comment saying “Oh, what a terrible storm, it’s so awful”, does that mean that I genuinely FEEL something, and does that feeling make my comment acceptable, or alternatively, if I post some hard, unfeeling mathematical calculation, does that mean that I therefore have no human empathy with those who have suffered losses in this hurricane? No, of course it doesn’t mean that.
    That’s partly why, on the Halloween thread, I ask a question of Pete re his spiritual self, but I take care to say, “if you don’t feel this is any of my business, I won’t be offended if you don’t answer”. It’s kinda….like that, yeah?

  16. ” the lawsuit did feature on CNBC, but was withdrawn before the day was out noting that the CEO of CNBC’s Digital Media section had his two children murdered by a nanny who then tried to kill herself by cutting her own throat. Usually, throats are cut by somebody else”

    It’s only logical. Faced with this publicity stunt john grisham plot reject lawsuit of the century, what else would you do but murder the children and nanny of the VP CEO of CNBC Digital, so that his staff he would pull the story in such a way that it would be all over the Internet and his staff would be able to corroborate it nobody would ever hear of it again?

    After all waiting for it to be laughed out of court bumping off the lawyers involved would be too simple, and the usual direct options such as sending a lawyer along to point out that that it was all perfectly legal framing a relative for shooting up a movie theatre, arranging a shooting in a sikh temple in order to intimidate the relative of somebody tangentially involved, or arranging for the car of the ten a penny only qualified expert to run off the road years after they’d already recorded their opinion on video, these have already been done.

  17. //It will take many months and many billions of dollars to recover. //

    By the way, where was the market when all this needless destruction and loss of value was going on?

    Don’t tell me it went into hiding again just when we needed it most, leaving the work to be done by firemen and civil defence workers.

  18. The broken windows fallacy exists only in straw man right wing rants. Keynesians do not believe that such destruction creates economic growth.

  19. All,the local cops and fire and ambulance guys and bus drivers showed up early today

    Incl my next door neighbor, a civilian NYPD employee who left home at 6am to drive the local streets to Jamaica NY, the local highways being flooded

    They’re great and we’re proud of them.

  20. I’ve just spent the last hour or so trying to calm down a friend of mine who hasn’t been able to contact his parents who are in New York at the moment.
    So, with all due respect Pete, i have to agree that now is not the time for a post such as this.

  21. Noel
    The market also provides all the equipment used by the emergency services and the training to use the equipment!

    I could go on!

  22. …. I have to agree that now is not the time for a post such as this.

    There were around 70 deaths attributed to the hurricane and nobody here knows any of the victims of this natural event – after all, hurricanes happen. As I wrote above, while about 70 people died in the hurricane, 300 died as a result of adverse drug reactions (ADRs). The sociopaths here find little wrong with that and one even welcomes the profits which the purveyors of these toxins will receive. Given these facts, exactly why should Pete’s article not be written? Mawkish sentimentality over Hurricane Walton does not count as a reason.

  23. If Allan@Aberdeen needs meds then I hope for ATW’s sake he stays off them. Without the insults he gets site traffic would crash.

  24. Without the insults he gets site traffic would crash.

    But this is all that there is. Look at the post by mahons at 3.52 and one sees no attempt whatsoever to address the points made in my preceeding post. None of these points are trivial and they invite debate, yet nothing above the level of a 9-year-old is forthcoming.

    On another thread, I posted the lawsuit which names the bankers and describes the banking system who and which have forced hundreds of thousands of Americans into penury. The site’s Strawman-General (Frank) attempts mockery on a most serious of matters – and this is all that Frank, mahons et al have.

  25. ” Debate ” with the angry and the crazies brings no light! Ever.

    Give one example here where it ever did.

  26. Allan,

    ‘On another thread, I posted the lawsuit which names the bankers and describes the banking system “

    Would that be the same posting that you posted on this thread at 6.14 p.m. yesterday?

    If it is, it’s hardly surprising that you received a negative reception, it was completely at cross purposes to Pete’s post, which was itself the subject of some derisory comment.

    All in all, this thread has been one of the weirdet yet seen on ATW.

  27. Phantom – you show me where you haven’t run away when on the end of a beating – see recent thread on your hero, Jamie Dimon.

    I’ll cite the example of the recent thread on prescription drugs where I showed that 100,000 Americans die each year from adverse drug reactions (ADRs) and you mentioned corporate profits as justification for continued peddling of these toxins. As I wrote above in response to your posturing over teh deaths of those unfortunates in this hurricane but your callous disregard for victims of prescription drugs, “what a fraud” that you are.

  28. Ernest Young –

    Allan@Aberdeen’s welcome to do that on my threads. They’re interesting and he’s not trying to lead threads astray, drop in red herrings or close down debate.

  29. You accept aid from crypto Nazis who share some of your anti British and reactionary views.

    How open minded of both of you.

  30. Phantom – what are you talking about (posts at 10.12 and 10.34)? Has Troll been giving you some of his ‘meds’?

  31. Pete,

    “Allan@Aberdeen’s welcome to do that on my threads. They’re interesting and he’s not trying to lead threads astray, drop in red herrings or close down debate.”

    Oh please. The verbatim copy pastes and repetition of the exact same (irrelevant) links and quotes every time the original scrolls off the front page – those are interesting and keeping threads on track are they?

    Respect the readers indeed.

  32. Allan’s crypto Nazism is tolerated by Pete since he is one of the few remaining allies in the bizarro world of endless breathless conspiracies.

    They’re in the bunker together

  33. Frank O’Dwyer –

    Well, “copy pastes” tend to be verbatim. No, they don’t keep threads on track but I don’t regard what Allan does as an attempt to deceive, deflect, close down debate or wreck a thread.

    In my view he’ll drop a lump of information – sometimes with an “apologies for being off-topic but there’s nowhere else to put it” – into a thread in a “c’mon, look at this” way. I don’t think he expects anyone to pick up on it, and often it is on topic anyway but with a slant that the MSM or official histories ignore.

    Bottom line: in my opinion Allan doesn’t have posting rights but does his best to gee things along according to his views an he offers plenty. He’s up front, honest, not snidy and welcome to do it on my threads.

  34. “In my view he’ll drop a lump of information – sometimes with an “apologies for being off-topic but there’s nowhere else to put it” – into a thread in a “c’mon, look at this” way..”

    Is it really necessary to look at it umpteen times? We’re overdue to hear from Danny Jowenko again, aren’t we? It must be at least 10 minutes since the last one. Or let’s have the video about the freefall collapse again.

    Or why not copy and paste that ludicrous lawsuit almost in its entirety again. We haven’t seen it enough times yet. Some people still have a drop of blood left in their eyes.

    Here allow me:

    1. This lawsuit arises from, among other things: (1) the deception in inducingPlaintiffs to enter into loans and mortgages1from approximately 2003 through 2007 and which were acquired or are serviced by Defendants; (ii) the fraudulent and illegal use of MERS andother “camouflage entities”in connection with those loans and mortgages; (iii) Defendants’ breach of Plaintiffs’ statutorily protected rights; (iv) Defendants’ breach and willful violation of numerous consumer and homeowner protection statutes, and willful violations of unfair business practices statutes, by, among other things, processing money from unknown sources, in contravention of the Patriot Act and the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act; (v)accepting money, transferring alleged assets and foreclosing upon alleged assets in instances where the alleged assets do not exist, and in which these Defendants have no right, title, or interest upon which they can act; and (vi) Defendants’ continuing conversion and other tortious conduct intended to deprive Plaintiffs of their money, property and legal rights and remedies for the foregoing acts, as described more fully below.(Hereinafter “Defendants’ Scheme.”)
    2. The Defendants scheme was and continues to be a gigantic international moneylaundering, “ponzi” and racketeering enterprise in which Defendants – and each of them as setforth herein – deceived, defrauded, stole, laundered, transferred, hypothecated (collectively“ponzi” enterprise)and then increased the level of theft by stealing from the United States of America and injecting into the ponzi enterprise a grand total (including monies stolen from all plaintiffs) of $43-Trillion ($43,000,000,000,000.00) through the foregoing acts, through the acts set forth herein, and through supplemental acts continuing and ongoing as recently as the dayprior to filing this complaint as follows (a) the deception in inducing Plaintiffs to enter into loansand mortgages and loan modification agreements and compromise agreements and otherundertakings of any and all kinds and nature, from approximately 2003 through and includingthe date of this First Amended Complaint, and (b) the fabrication of documentation, charges,lawsuits, investigations and other modalities againstthe founders of Plaintiffs’ counsel in thismatter, lawyers throughout the United States, and any persons who were opposed to the theft of the entirety of at least 10X the United States of America’s entire money supply($43 trillion), all pertaining to the ponzi and racketeering schemes and money laundering intentions by the defendants as follows:

    Wasn’t that fascinating, again?

    In case you missed it, here it is again:

    1. This lawsuit arises from, among other things: (1) the deception in inducingPlaintiffs to enter into loans and mortgages1from approximately 2003 through 2007 and which were acquired or are serviced by Defendants; (ii) the fraudulent and illegal use of MERS andother “camouflage entities”in connection with those loans and mortgages; (iii) Defendants’ breach of Plaintiffs’ statutorily protected rights; (iv) Defendants’ breach and willful violation of numerous consumer and homeowner protection statutes, and willful violations of unfair business practices statutes, by, among other things, processing money from unknown sources, in contravention of the Patriot Act and the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act; (v)accepting money, transferring alleged assets and foreclosing upon alleged assets in instances where the alleged assets do not exist, and in which these Defendants have no right, title, or interest upon which they can act; and (vi) Defendants’ continuing conversion and other tortious conduct intended to deprive Plaintiffs of their money, property and legal rights and remedies for the foregoing acts, as described more fully below.(Hereinafter “Defendants’ Scheme.”)
    2. The Defendants scheme was and continues to be a gigantic international moneylaundering, “ponzi” and racketeering enterprise in which Defendants – and each of them as setforth herein – deceived, defrauded, stole, laundered, transferred, hypothecated (collectively“ponzi” enterprise)and then increased the level of theft by stealing from the United States of America and injecting into the ponzi enterprise a grand total (including monies stolen from all plaintiffs) of $43-Trillion ($43,000,000,000,000.00) through the foregoing acts, through the acts set forth herein, and through supplemental acts continuing and ongoing as recently as the dayprior to filing this complaint as follows (a) the deception in inducing Plaintiffs to enter into loansand mortgages and loan modification agreements and compromise agreements and otherundertakings of any and all kinds and nature, from approximately 2003 through and includingthe date of this First Amended Complaint, and (b) the fabrication of documentation, charges,lawsuits, investigations and other modalities againstthe founders of Plaintiffs’ counsel in thismatter, lawyers throughout the United States, and any persons who were opposed to the theft of the entirety of at least 10X the United States of America’s entire money supply($43 trillion), all pertaining to the ponzi and racketeering schemes and money laundering intentions by the defendants as follows:

  35. ‘JM –
    I’ll pass on your concerns to Yahoo Finance.’

    Charming?
    and not really big or clever Pete.
    I’m disappointed in you.
    Totally unnecessary response under the circumstances.

  36. Shit Pete, the blue collar trades need the work, don’t look mother nature’s gift horse in the mouth.

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