35 2 mins 9 yrs

Well, the BIG news is that the next Archbishop of Canterbury has called the rejection of women bishops a “very grim day”, as bishops prepare for an emergency meeting on the issue.

The ordination of women bishops in the Church of England was narrowly rejected by its ruling general synod on Tuesday. The Rt Rev Justin Welby, who takes over the Church’s top role next year, said the lost vote was hard “most of all for women priests and supporters”.

The liberal wing of the COE will be gutted. Big deal. I couldn’t care less if there are women Bishops are not. What WOULD be nice to see is the emergence of Christian Bishops however. Those within the COE need to have a very careful read of the 39 articles of  religion which they ALL sign up to when joining that Church and ask themselves why they choose not to debate these instead of gender politics.

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35 thoughts on “LADY BISHOPS…

  1. I have high hopes for the Reverend Justin Welby, not least because he has real world credibility, doesn’t wear a beard or show any inclination to become a Druid or an advocate of Sharia law.
    All good so far.
    I believe in the equality of men and women but equality of difference. I see no real support for the idea of women Bishops in the New Testament, although I am sure that my pink and fluffy liberal friends on ATW will accuse me of misogyny and lacking in Christian lurve, forgiveness, acceptance and other meaningless guff.
    I am willing to give Justin the benefit of the doubt. If he can get away from the CofE’s obsession with being trendy, PC and inoffensive to all, and start preaching red blooded Christianity we will see church attendance start to rise again.

  2. Agit8ed,

    “red blooded Christianity”

    Given Xian history, a most unfortunate choice of words.

    I’m wondering why the women don’t start their own Church. The CoE is dying by inches, pews emptying inexorably. The men have had it their own way for too long.

    Besides, frocks definitely look better on women 😉

  3. “Given Xian history”??
    What this is?
    A deliberate choice of words calculated to get a response from,

    “my pink and fluffy liberal friends on ATW will accuse me of misogyny and lacking in Christian lurve, forgiveness, acceptance and other meaningless guff.”
    It worked 🙂

  4. They have a new idea, – they discuss it ad infinitum, – they decide, as a nod to the notion of democracy, to have a vote on the matter, – they lose, – they weep they wail, and they whinge!

    Are these people hypocrites or not?

    So very typical of our modern society, – “I want it!, and I want it now!!”

  5. David


    In modern society, religion must conform to people’s wishes, rather than people striving to bring themselves into harmony with religious law.

    Rules are such a hassle, anyway!

    The sovereignty of the individual, even sovereign to God!

  6. Pathetic decision!

    Interesting that it was apparently the laity to blame!

    The key doctrinal “objection” really relates to allowing women to be priests. That has been crossed so this is just about not letting women to be in the hierarchy or management.

  7. Paul,

    “Paul McMahon, on November 21st, 2012 at 9:42 PM Said:
    What’s the objection to women holding office at every level in the Church?”

    If you have to ask that then you don’t understand patriarchal woo 😉

    BTW I left my email address with David. Want to “speak” to you about Pamplona and stuff.

  8. This decision is probably largely the result of an unholy alliance between patronising heterosexual evangelical Conservative men who think women should only be baking cakes to bring to the church sale and the largely homosexual ‘bells and smells’ anglo-Catholic wing who just think women are horrible creatures they want nothing to do with !

  9. Colm,
    Regarding the Church (any Church)I don’t see what relevance the opinions of people who neither believe in Christianity nor attend church, have to the actual workings of the Church.
    I would however be interested to hear how you get on when you share similar observations with the faithful at the local mosque..

  10. Agi

    No but I don’t see any good reason why women who want to be should be debarred merely for their gender.


    I think that there is part of the high church wing that doesn’t want to increase the difference between the COE and RC. I wouldn’t underestimate the traditional women who don’t like women in the clergy as they want to pet and fuss over a man in that role.

  11. Aileen,
    no matter how distressing it may be to the pink and fluffy brigade on ATW, there is no scriptural backing for the concept of women ministers or bishops..

    Titus 1:5-9 —
    5)For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might set in order what remains, and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,
    6) namely, if any man be above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.
    7) For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
    8) but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
    9) holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, that he may be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

    Men and women are equal but men are called to be leaders in the Church.

  12. ” I will, like everyone else here, comment on whatever topic I wish to thank you very much.”
    Of course you can Colm..
    But if you do decide to also comment on the hierachical structure in your local mosque, please do share how you get on. 🙂

  13. Agit8ed,

    I’m glad that Colm put you in your place. That was terribly rude of you.

    There are at least two good reasons why the godfree should have an interest in “the actual workings of the Church”.

    1. It’s frequently the case that the outsider has the more objective view. Which is why the cat is more familiar with the topography of the aquarium than its fishes are.

    2. More than two score bishops of the CoE sit in our unelected House, and interfere in our government and legislation. This ludicrous situation is the envy of would-be theocracies the like of Iran.

  14. Agi

    Where is the differential scriptural backing re woman bishops as opposed to women priests?

    There is no scriptural backing for ex chartered accountants being minsters or bishops either.
    Where is the scriptural backing for lace on alter cloths?

  15. What relevance do mosques have in terms of Colm’s right to comment freely on news items on the COE?

  16. I look forward to Agit8ed ceasing to comment on American politics because he’s not a yank, Irish news because he’s not a paddy, Israeli/Palestinian stuff because he’s neither a Yid nor a raghead and Gay stories coz he’s not a prancing pansy 😉

  17. Aileen,
    there is no scriptures backing women priests either.

    St Paul said,(Ist Letter to Timothy chapter 2.)

    12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

    That’s what it says, and I didn’t write it! Whether it’s my age or not, but I don’t feel comfortable with women priests etc, even though I know that men can be corrupt or wrong..

    14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

    You are right about the lace on altar cloths. I argue with our church about stuff we do for which I can find no Biblical backing.

  18. There is no scriptural backing for the concept of women ministers or bishops..

    Marvellous, I look forward to the time when the Church stop travelling in planes, cars, stop using electricity, mobile phones, computers etc.

    After all, there is no scriptural backing for such concepts . . . . sheesh.

    If you have to ask that then you don’t understand patriarchal woo

    Richard. I don’t understand why someone should be barred from s position where their gender doesn’t place physical constraints on the job they do.

    I’ll give David a shout tomorrow regarding the e mail

  19. Richard
    I disagree.
    Although I didn’t mean to sound rude, and I am quite happy for Colm to put me in my place as you see it. My view remains the same. So many who criticise the Church never set foot, and it is not the role of the Church to please the world or seek their approval.

  20. ps
    We have people here who complain about the state of the churchyard at a funeral or the clock not being on time, but those same critics never offer to help..

  21. Agit

    The CoE is not a private organisation, it is the official Established church of England , with a statutory legislative role in Parliament, so it is perfectly acceptable for any Englishman (but not women, they need to keep quiet ;)) to comment on it’s affairs.

  22. Agi
    Yes Agi and you might just get the point. The vote is daft as if women ministers are ok, where is the argument against women bishops?

    This is a discussion board. It’s discussions are not limited to just those institutions that seek our approval.

  23. Colm

    Ah but you aren’t a ” true” Englishman 😉

    Non English women can comment though 😉 I am typing quietly 😀

  24. Agit8ed,

    “it is not the role of the Church to please the world or seek their approval.”

    Just so. So why are its bishops clogging up our upper chamber?

    It either works both ways or not at all: let the god-botherers cease bothering secular society and we shan’t bother them.

  25. Richard,
    “Just so. So why are its bishops clogging up our upper chamber?”

    That might just be because we still live in a constitutional monarchy, not yet a secular state or an Islamic one.
    You could read about it here,
    but I doubt you will because it’s all about the role of “God botherers’ in our constitutional monarchy.

    And by the way, your use of the term “God botherers” is EXACTLY why I have no regard for the opinions of people like yourself on Church governance.
    Did I hurt your feelings?
    Soooooo sorry. 🙂

  26. Aileen,
    Nice to see you being chipper again. You might not appreciate it but I was thinking about you during Remembrance Sunday.
    Now, regarding women’s roles in the Christian church..

    “Yes Agi and you might just get the point. The vote is daft as if women ministers are ok, where is the argument against women bishops?”
    As Father Jack might say,
    That would be an ecumenical matter.”
    Personally I don’t agree with women ministers, but the CofE does.
    I attend a CofE church because it is the main church in our village and we found out that the new minister is a real born again Christian.
    So we endure the liturgy, the frocks, the funny ceremonies and the “tradditions” that have no basis in Christianity. Some issues are important and have to be defended, others are peripheral and a matter of personal conscience.
    I help out practically in looking after the church, and I want us to reach out into the village. My wife is starting up a thing called Messy Church as an after school activity.
    So I think you and I would both agree that we accept the nonsense as long as the basics are right.
    The CofE has wandered away from the basics of Christianity and that is why it is increasingly irrelevant to the needs of society.
    But I do believe in prayer, and I do believe things can change and my responsibility is to be a good example of Christian practice within my community. Whether that pleases the soft and fluffy brigade or not.

  27. Agit8ed,

    Did you hurt my feelings? Of course not.

    Re “god-botherers”. Name-calling is all part of the fun of ATW, isn’t it? You’re probably the most prolific name-caller here.

    But I suspect you missed the point I was making. We secularists have every right to concern ourselves with the CoE’s issue with female bishops.

    Why? Because were such women “allowed” by the patriarchal god-botherers then they could at some future time be elected appointed to the House of Lords. Were that the case then they’d be in a position to interfere with the secular affairs of the godfree.

    While I resent the presence of bishops in the Lords, given the choice I do not have, I’d prefer females. To my mind women are more spiritual than men. Less ego-driven for a start.

  28. Garbage Clinton!
    YOU miss the point.
    The Christian Church existed and was influencing the life of our nation hundreds of years before Liberatii like yourself ever gained a voice.
    And by the way, whilst the Church has done some really bad stuff contrary to the teachings of Jesus, give me ONE secular/Atheistic/Agnostic state that hasn’t got a Christian background, that you can point to as being the crowning achievement of your liberal thinking.

    There ain’t none!
    Soviet Russia,
    Soviet China, they killed MILLIONS in the name of a man centred political philosophy..

    You live off the back of Christian values that have shaped the society you live in.
    A dissident like you would have been locked up and forgotten about in some Soviet style Lubyanka for attacking the state.


  29. Agit8ed,

    “give me ONE secular/Atheistic/Agnostic state that hasn’t got a Christian background”

    There are no secular/Atheistic/Agnostic states, and never have been. Nor will there be one in the UK until the god-botherers are ejected from our Parliament.

    I wonder how you’d feel if our constitution dictated that at any one time 26 imams must have seats in the House of Lords. I very much doubt that you’d approve.

    I leave you to extrapolate to my feelings on interfering bishops.

  30. “I wonder how you’d feel if our constitution dictated that at any one time 26 imams must have seats in the House of Lords. I very much doubt that you’d approve.”

    No, I wouldn’t approve because
    a) I don’t accept the tenets of Islam and their understanding of God, and
    b) Islam is not a part of our cultural history.

  31. “Now you can extrapolate and Imagine how I feel about your 26 skypilots.”

    I wouldn’t worry Richard.
    Three quarters of ’em are as wetly liberal as you are..

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