130 2 mins 9 yrs

I entirely disagree with violence which is WHY I entirely condemn this;

“The Alliance Party’s office in Carrickfergus has been attacked and police officers have been injured after trouble flared following a loyalist flag protest.

Police said that about 1,500 to 1,600 people had gathered at the Irish Gate roundabout earlier on Wednesday. They were protesting against Belfast City Council’s decision to stop flying the union flag every day. Trouble broke out and missiles, bottles and masonry were thrown at police. The violence continued in nearby West Street, where Alliance MLA Stewart Dickson has an office.”

Those who would attack private property and threaten violence are scum. But are they foolish?

After all they have seen how we rewarded the scum who murdered thousands, maimed tens of thousands and blew the hell out of our cities, towns and villages, by placing their proxies in Goverment. If they see violence appeased and indeed rewarded, why act surprised when they too follow the path of violence? It’s time the hypocrites who support the appeasement of the IRA, UDA, UVF et al looked in the mirror. If it is wrong to riot in Carrickfergus (and it IS) THEN it was wrong to carry out a blitzkrieg for more than three decades. Yet many of you support the rewarding of those men of hateful violence.

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130 thoughts on “SCUM PART THREE….

  1. //by placing their proxies in Goverment//

    SF didn’t get into government through violence, David. They got in by the long and hard slog of political campaigning, mobilising voters and perseverence in the face of 100 setbacks. A lot of people – and not just rioting Loyalists – could learn a thing of two from them.

    SF of course also benefitted by a lot of luck, it has to be said. By far the best card in their hand was the downright stupidity of those opposing them. Their constituency was a minority within a minority, they had no friends anywhere and were villified by the media, yet still they managed to corner, isolate and then divide Unionism. Whether you like Sinn Fein or not, I think you have to admit they did it all very skillfully indeed.

  2. Ah, the much loved unionist qualified condemnation of violence;

    ‘Yes, unionist violence is wrong, but . . . . who can blame them?, look at themmuns.’

  3. This is the result of the two main unionist parties deliberately going out of their way to stir things up. Now they have lost control and are doing their usual looking the other way act.

    Lets not forget that all Alliance have done is to facilitate a perfectly sensible compromise which still has the union flag flying on the usual designated days. Just like in the rest of the UK.

    This looks like an attempt to intimidate the Alliance Party out of East Belfast and I hope it doesn’t succeed. And where the hell is the ‘moderate’ Mike Nesbitt? He should be standing arm in arm with David Ford against these attacks on democracy.

  4. Looking at the recent comments list It seems to be all SCUM on ATW at the moment (and no I’m not referring to our esteemed regulars) 🙂

  5. I keep on thinking that I’ve fallen down a rabbit hole. Rioting over a frigging flag? Offices being torched?

    Come back, Alice; all is forgiven. The Red Queen says she’s sorry and the dormouse is hibernating.

    Only in Northern Ireland could grown-ups act like children over the flying of the Union Jack. If you could see yourselves as the rest of the world sees you…

  6. This post could have been written by this new group ‘ulster protestant voice’. the fact that some appear to think violence pays is confusing in the extreme. Violence did not pay and the IRA had to give up its guns and go away . Some need to rethink their reasons for opposing democracy.

  7. I condemn this violence. I also think that the dup have a cheek to come out and start tut tutting at something they have increased tensions with after phamphlets and rabble rousing.

    Also, the IRA did indeed use violence to get their way, as they couldn’t get enough people to support their ideal of a united ireland, which looks even more silly now.

    For those who think that they didn’t use violence to blackmail the British Government, remember their phrase, openly stated as their tactic: Ballot box and armalite, or is that all forgotten?

  8. Mahons, I think that after or rather during the ceasefire, which was called to enter into appeasement, they blew up canary wharf in London, costing almost all if not more than the entire troubles in NI.

    Lo and behold, they were quickly ushered into further talks and given what they wanted on the back of further threats.

    That is what they do.

  9. Sadly we are most likely going to see a lot more violence as the reality of Nationalist encroachment continues. Belfast is lost to Unionism as so many other towns and cities in the North are. The centre of the once great Unionist Monolith has been hollowed out and very soon there will be nothing more than an egg shell left. David’s approval of Loyalist violence only confirms what Nationalists always knew to be true. Unionism can only accept democracy on the basis of a very narrow definition of the word as it pertains to their own criteria. A bit like a grieving mother standing at a gate waiting for her dead son to return, he never does and she withers away with grief and despair her only companions. She destroys her own chances of happiness just as Unionism destroys its own chances of survival. Whatever the IRA or the British or Irish or Rome or Europe or America ever did to damage Unionism pales in comparison to what Unionism has done to itself time and time again. Its sad, very sad.

  10. I wondered how long it would take before this turned into a finger pointing exercise and the conversation would be turned away from the violence, vandalism, assault and intimidation we have seen over the past few days from unionism.

  11. Really what we are witnessing is a testing of the middle ground after the peace process.. As Brian Feeney said on utvl2n last night, this was a boil that needed lancing. The proposed new protests won’t achieve anything,and alliance needs to find its back bone and stand tall bringing their middle ground voters with them.

  12. What we are seeing Katey is a testing of unionism’s commitment to democracy which isn’t contrived to suit their political aspirations.

  13. not really paul, already the alliance want to support flying the union flag all year round at the cenotaph in the grounds of the city hall, so as was said else where this is a testing of the peace process middle ground middle class and they need to s**t or get off the pot..

  14. Kateyo, I think the problem is, there is no middle ground. After the Belfast Agreement, which institutionalised sectarianism, there was only one logical outcome.

    Now we have two sides, more entrenched than ever and becoming increasingly polarised as each decision is viewed to for or against whichever ‘side.’

    I am not confident about the next few years.

  15. Democracy is obeying the wishes of the majority. That is why we had decades of violence, as republicans and to a lesser extent, nationalists, refused to accept it.

    They still refuse to, as in the assembly, for example, there has to be a majority of the minority voting in favour to allow legislation to go through.

    That is why nothing ever gets done.

  16. Kateyo, yes, thanks for that, but surely it beggars the question that if they support flying the flag all year around at the cenotaph, then why not from the city hall?

    As I understand it, the flag doesn’t fly at the cenotaph in the garden of remembrance all year at present, so lets get this straight.

    The Union Flag will not fly from the city hall all year round, like it used to, because Alliance didn’t support that.
    Now the Alliance will support the flying of said flag in the cenotaph at the city hall all year round, like it didn’t used to.

    Can anyone make any sense out of this?

  17. LU keep up with the media..;) ‘listen again’ nolan show from yesterday morning re ulster protestant voice…
    They were just on there how’d I know who they are 😉

    As for fb, ppl are talking and organising generally.

  18. is it the ‘upv’ on facebook, or I mean, when they were on the Nolan show, did they have a spokesman named?

    That’s what I was getting at.

    If this keeps on going it isn’t going to be an easy time in the run up to Christmas.

  19. Thanks Paul I was expecting another picture.

    Any idea either of you what minute the ulster voice is on? I don’t fancy listening to the whole show lol

  20. about an hour ago · Like · 5..

    from face book
    Grant Nesbitt Calling all Unionists and Loyalists from the District of Banbridge, to come out and protest this FRIDAY night at 8pm on jinglers bridge the CUT. This will be a peaceful and dignified protest to show solidarity with our fellow Ulstermen in Belfast. The UNION Flag has flew for 100years on top of Belfast City Hall. Our heritage is under constant attack and time to stand and be counted. United We Stand pass this on

    about an hour ago · Like · 2

  21. I read somewhere that it was iniatiated by a group of ex British military servicemen but I can’t speak as to the veracity of the claim.

  22. //The UNION Flag has flew for 100years on top of Belfast City Hall. Our heritage is under constant attack and time to stand and be counted//

    Don’t tell me Troll has finally made it to Ireland.

  23. Haven’t heard that paul, though not sure if this ulster protestant voice is organising all the protests or only the one at city hall…

  24. Sinn Féin (Jim McVeigh) said that the flag would not fly at the cenotaph. If it goes to vote, and it likely will, if Unionists Loyalists keep rioting protesting, then it will be passed, as Alliance hold the balance of power.

    I can pretty much guaruntee you that Nationalists/Republicans will not;

    a) Block off a street in the busy city centre
    b) Cause damage to vehicles and property in and around city hall
    c) Chase off visitors to the Christmas Market
    d) Attack a Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist area
    e) Hospitalise police officers
    f) Attack a place of worship
    g) Issue death threats to councillors and other elected representatives
    h) Set fire to offices belonging to any political party
    i) Riot for 2 (and counting) nights
    j) Plan and organise protests all over the feckin’ place
    k) Blame it all on Unionists/Loyalists/Protestants

    Have I missed anything?

  25. I posed the question the other day on how relations are left in tatters inside the council chamber as a result of this.

    It seems that it is fair to say this has damaged relations inside and out, and now is spreading like wildfire across the province.

    Just goes to show, the Alliance party will be thinking to themselves that the old adage of ‘you’re either with us, or against us’, never rang truer tonight…

  26. just listened to the news, they were mentioning Clinton comes here in 48 hours…great timing.

  27. Jonathon Harvey, the spokesman for the Ulster Protestant Voice on Nolan, is the chairman of the group in the link.

  28. Has there ever been a more insecure group of people than NI Unionists/Loyalists?

    They cause mayhem and destruction when a flag they don’t like is placed in the window of an office.

    They cause mayhem and destruction when a flag they do like is only flown on certain days, rather than all year round.

    At certain times of the year, they hang flags from everything around them. They hang them out their windows, on every lamppost, out every window, on their pets and on themselves. They paint the colours of that flag on kerbstones, gable walls, their faces, in fact, on anything that will hold paint.

    Are they so insecure, that they fear they will be looked on as less British than say, someone from Brighton, or Uxbridge, or Dunny-on-the-Wold?

    Or is it something more simple in this case?

    Are they up in arms, destroying property and threatening lives, because they want the flag to fly all year round, just like they leave their own flags flying all year round, on every lamppost, until there is nothing left but a few wind-ravaged tatters?

    Perhaps that is the solution. Perhaps SF and the SDLP should say, ‘Ok – you can fly the flag 365 days a year. But just the one flag. The same one, never taken down, never changed, never washed or repaired. And when it’s gone – it’s gone. No more flags.

    Could it be that simple?

  29. Just been told by a friend from north Belfast that unionists loyalists have blockaded a school entrance on the Hightown Rd and parents are told to go to the school and collect their children.

  30. Sorry, not blocked.

    Crowds starting to gather at Gaelscoil Eanna, Irish language primary school.

  31. Waiting on word back from that member of staff.

    Now now, kateyo, didn’t you hear? The Holy Cross incident was the fault of Nationalists/Republicans who insisted on bringing their pesky daughters to school. I mean, with provocation like that, can you blame anyone for throwing bags of urine and blast bombs at 8 & 9 year-olds?

  32. In all seriousness though – Robinson and Poots have spoken in the past few days of the flag issue as an argument that Unionism was winning. If a school is being targetted for a protest around this issue, then wiser heads within the PUL community need to get in here quick and call this protest off, or else their argument is completely lost.

  33. I think that they’ve lost control. The genie’s very difficult to put back into the bottle.

  34. The Guardian has learned that members of the Ulster Volunteer Force from east Belfast and North Down have played a key role in many of the violent protests over the last three days. The UVF is not only officially on ceasefire but also is supposedly disbanding its militaristic structure

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/06/northern-ireland-loyalist-paramilitaries-violence?CMP=twt_fd

    I think it’ll take a long time for the DUP, and to a lesser extent the UUP, to shove this particular genie back into the bottle.

  35. I think what is particularly distasteful Paul is the likes of you and your other sidekicks, who support the political reps of terrorists spouting on here about unionists or loyalists.

    Even worse is the impression of your little cabal of nationalists actually enjoying the wanton violence of the last few days, and gloating about it, so you can goad and attempt at getting a rise out of myself and other unionists on here.

    In fact, your group probably hopes for more violence so you can occupy an imaginary high moral ground.

    Unfortunately, since we all know about the electoral support for terrorists from your community, you would do well to climb out of the gutter, never mind any moral plain.

    ps, the Guardian? lol Yeah, like, they could learn something from loyalists in the real world, about as reliable as your friend about the road blockage, that, er, never happened.

    Oh dear…

  36. ‘Clearly we do have paramilitaries involved, some are involved as individuals, some are involved within their communities but we will be looking very carefully indeed to see whether there has been any conspiracy and a degree of orchestration,” he added.’

    So, what a surprise, loyalists who were protesting are members of paramilitary groups.

    Wow.

    It is clear, however, the riots have not been planned or organised by said groups.

    Mr Baggott said that paramilitaries had been present at some of the protests and police would examine if there was a “conspiracy”.

    He didn’t mention the shooting of JFK, Aliens amongst us, or if the moon landings were in fact real.

  37. LU,

    “In fact, your group probably hopes for more violence so you can occupy an imaginary high moral ground.”

    An obscene suggestion. Quite pathetic.

    Do please remember that the protests are and were one-sided. Members of your tribe objected to a curtailment of the flying of the Union Jack. A curtailment arrived at by democratic process.

    And perhaps you can suggest to me a paper that’s more reliable than The Guardian.

    The Sun? The Daily Spurt? Which one do you take?

  38. So, it’s ok for paramilitaries to be involved then, as long as they are there as individuals rather than in groups? Why didn’t you say so?

    And no, I’m not hoping for more violence. I hope these fools come to their senses, and soon, before someone is hurt. Or worse.

  39. LU objects to that particular edition of the Guardian, Richard. If, tomorrow, it were to report that Sinn Fein were behind the riots, he would come on here brandishing it like Moses and the 10 commandments.

  40. It is clear, however, the riots have not been planned or organised by said groups.

    LU

    How would you possibly know this?

    BTW, what have you been up to the past couple of days? 🙂

  41. wee dicky clinty, the guardian is a rag, and one which wouldn’t know Loyalism and certainly wouldn’t have an insight into loyalist thinking. I heard Billy Hutch on the radio, stating clearly that his organisation was not going to be following the grand old duke of york again, and ruled out taking a lead role in the violence. For once, I am thankful for something he has said.
    The Union FLAG should fly all year round, in exactly the same way as the other hundreds of councils throughout the rest of the UK. Why should NI be any different? Unless of course, you are admitting than nationalists just will not tolerate democracy? tut tut…

    Seimi, then maybe you can stop gloating and trying to take a moral position on this, its a pitiful that you are using this as an opportunity to gloat. If put into context, against the thousands killed by your community supported ira, it is really not that significant, but regrettable all the same.

    I direct you to the ‘resident groups’ with leaders from sfira, many moved into the area for the purpose, and the riots in Ardoyne and even counter parades at the same time as a silent parade by compromising orangemen.

    That is the tiniest glimpse of the bitterness and intolerance of your community, and together with the electoral support of the ira and the support to reduce the number of days our national flag is flown shows the world who the bigots are.

    As long as you support the reps of murderers, I told you; I have nothing to discuss with the likes of you.

    Phantom,

    because the uvf and uda have said publicly they want nothing to do with it as an organisation. The uvf’s political rep, billy hutchison was on radio saying it today.

    The last couple of days, I have been writing, and will be doing so until the end of jan.

    Anyway, speaking of which, I am off.

    Hopefully a peaceful night in store.

  42. LU, I’m not gloating at all, and I would resent that accusation from anyone I had an ounce of respect for. You, on the other hand…

    As to taking a moral stance on this issue – I have. The democratic decision was right, and the ensuing violence by Unionists who, like you, oppose democracy, is wrong.

    And I won’t take lectures on right and wrong by someone who was shown – again – to be an outright liar last night.

    Good night to you and yes, here’s hoping for a quiet one.

  43. LU,

    “wee dicky clinty, the guardian is a rag”

    The Guardian, unlike your beloved Daily Spurt, is an award-winning paper (inter alia 2011 Newspaper of the Year).

    “and one which wouldn’t know Loyalism and certainly wouldn’t have an insight into loyalist thinking.”

    Loyalists think as well as riot and destroy? Well, stone me 😉

    “The Union FLAG should fly all year round, in exactly the same way as the other hundreds of councils throughout the rest of the UK. Why should NI be any different?”

    Pray do not be deliberately obtuse. You know as well as anybody that NI is home to a considerable majority for whom the Union JACK has nasty connotations. If you think it’s fine to fly it in their faces then you a very uncaring and insensitive individual.

  44. See LU

    Flying the national flag in the same way as the rest if the country has to be “in their faces”!

    And of course the majority don’t matter if a minority considers that the country’s flag has negative connotations.

    Richard

    When LU asked why NI should be different, I think he meant what would be a GOOD REASON why it should be different!

    I can’t think of any other country that would be so pathetic as to accept that some inhabitants not liking the national flag is a legitimate reason not to fly it!

  45. Nor can I Aileen. In Belfast, however, a MAJORITY of the council voted that it be flown on DESIGNATED DAYS, not that it not be flown at all.

  46. Aileen,

    “I can’t think of any other country that would be so pathetic as to accept that some inhabitants not liking the national flag is a legitimate reason not to fly it!”

    You surprise me. I hadn’t expected that you’d share UL’s deliberate obtuseness.

    Last time I looked, it wasn’t a matter of “some inhabitants” of your province not liking the Union Jack, but a very large minority. So large, in fact, that I mistakenly wrote “majority” in my last comment.

    You cannot but be aware that much of the nationalist population of Northern Ireland equates the Union Jack with oppression and centuries of wrongdoing. And that they’d sooner not see it displayed more than is strictly necessary. For them it is not a rallying emblem; they have no affinity with it and what it represents.

    Ask yourself how you would feel were the Irish tricolour to fly above your town hall 365 days per year.

    Now put yourself in your nationalist neighbours’ shoes.

  47. Richard

    I would hate it!

    If it was in the UK I would be outraged.

    If it was in the RoI I would think that it would be pathetic of me to object and for anyone to consider such objection to have weight.

    Or when I put myself in my nationalist neighbour’s shoes do I also have to become stupid?

  48. Richard

    Re the “now put” you asked this as if it wasn’t a bleeding obvious question to have already asked myself!

  49. //what would be a GOOD REASON why it should be different! //

    It’s different because in no other region or province would a majority in the two largest cities vote against flying the national flag as standard procedure.

  50. Flags are a fine thing in places like America or France etc, where there is an essential unity.

    In NI, that unity of course is not present, nor has it ever been present. A big percentage of the population there accepts the reality that it is currently part of the UK, but those folks regard the UK, or ” England “, as the foreigner, as the occupier on the island of Ireland, and they see Northern Ireland as something that is transitory, something that will not always exist. And all here know that a lot of people see it that way. They’re entitled to their opinion on that matter.

    Flags in Northern Ireland have been intentionally been used as a tool to dominate, to show who’s boss, to mark neighborhoods. Ultimately, waving the flag in a belligerent or super patriotic way is a sign of insecurity at best. They don’t stick the flag in your face in London or other places in England. They can do it in the North – painting it on walls, on sidewalk curbs, etc etc.

    Has anyone considered the possibility of having a ” no flags ” policy in certain areas there, just as many bars there, including the Crown Bar, have a ” no ( soccer ) football shirts ” policy? No Union Jack flag, no Tricolor, and certainly no EU flag. Agree on what can be agreed on, and leave the unnecessary and divisive alone.

  51. Aileen,

    Phantom addressed the issues you raised better than I could. Thank you, Phantom!

    As an outsider, it seems rather obvious to me that each of the “opposing tribes” of Ulster should acknowledge the other’s concerns, hurts, hopes and fears. No good will come of pretending to yourselves that there aren’t two equally valid positions to consider.

    In other words, cries of “But it’s the national flag; why on earth would anybody object to it bring flown” are at best disingenuous and at worst callous.

  52. The average ” foreigner ” – American, German, Japanese, whatever …English even….cannot begin to process the behavior that is routinely seen there. Throwing golf balls and bottles at police, attacking churches and threatening schools, over a flag policy?

    And all the rest of it?

    It simply cannot be believed, much less justified. It is astonishing that there is any tourism industry, or that there is any inward investment.

  53. seeing thugs wrapped in union jacks behaving badly
    its just incredible- the stupidity mate

    hey phantom
    I’m the unsinkable molly malone of the titanic ATW

  54. @Paul….
    I’m in Glengormley and as far as i could see there was no protest/whatever outside the Irish Language school on the Hightown.
    Looked to me that it was centered around the junction of the Antrim Road/Carnmoney Road at the Glen Inn (if you know it?).
    It got very out of hand. Large Police presence with groups of youths fighting with each other. Which is pretty typical for Glengormley most nights of the week anyway.
    I saw nothing on the Hightown Road but couldn’t be everywhere, obviously.
    I had gone along in support of the protest but left when it started to turn ugly.

  55. Phantom

    None of that trumps the right of a country to fly its flag in its space!

    Richard
    There are not two equally valid positions. The right of a majority to define the national identity of the territory and fly its flag Zshoukd take precidence!

    It is not callous to defend a right! It is callous to expect or even want a majority to cave in on expressions of national identity, ESPECIALLY, when that majority has been under murderous attack because of that identity and mainly at the behest of SF/ IRA who did the murdering.

    The Irush tricolour disgusts me. I hate to see it anywhere, including anywhere in the ROI when I am visiting but I totally recognise that itvus their flag and they have the right to fly it.

    Phantom
    The rioting is wrong but it is about rights and erosion of rights and erosion of Britishness, which matters far more because of the murderous attack against it. The idea that NI people should have different rights of expression of national identity of their territory because of the situation there is yet more reward for the terrorists and terrorists have had too much reward.

    Also (not aimed at you Phantom as I don’t think you said this ) the notion ths some have that pointing out that violence has been seen to pay in NI is said to somehow excuse the rioters says a lot about the thought processes of those saying it. Of course it doesn’t bloody excuse it! SF/IRA carried on longer and murderd more people because they could see that it would pay. Is that going to be taken as me excusing that pack of thugs?

  56. Aileen

    The right of a majority to define the national identity of the territory and fly its flag shoukd take precidence!

    That’s a good argument against the partition of Ireland. Ireland was brought into the union as a single entity and when it voted to leave it should have been allowed to do so peacefully as an entity. Citing majority rule when it suits you and rejecting it when it does not is not a tenable position.

  57. How many times does it need to be spelled out here?

    The decision last Monday night to only fly the Union flag on designated days was voted and passed on by a majority of Belfast city councillors (29 to 21). That proposal came from the Alliance Party, not Sinn Féin or SDLP. They had originally proposed that the flag be removed altogether. Alliance, in keeping with their own party policies, came up with the compromise, and brought the council in line with flag-flying policies at Stormont.

    In the weeks leading up to the vote, the DUP and Ulster Unionists bombarded parts of the city with leaflets which placed all the blame for a decision which had yet to be made at the feet of the Alliance Party. They whipped people into a frenzy before the vote, and got them to stage a protest. When, inevitably, that protest turned into riotous behaviour, destruction of property and attacks on the police, the DUP and UUP washed their hands of the rioters and quickly condemned them.

    And now it’s the fault of Republicans for ‘eroding peoples’ Britishness’!?

    FFS people, are you all so stupid, so easily led!? The 2 main Unionist parties used you all, got you to do their dirty work, and fooled you all into thinking it was someone else’s fault!

    Different politicians and ‘community workers’ have been in the media claiming that it was because the Unionist vote hadn’t come out at the last election, which was why Alliance took East Belfast, which was why the demographics of the council had changed, which was why there was a Nationalist majority, which was why yah-dee-yah-dee-yah..

    They said voters would have to come out next time. Perhaps they are right. Next election, everyone come out, and reject these f*ckers at the polls! Let them know you are not their sheep, that you won’t do their dirty work for them, that you are wise to their game. They don’t care about you. Never have, never will. They only want you for your vote, so that they can stay in power. Not you. Them.

    And don’t listen to the bollox that your Britishness is being eroded. It isn’t. Nationalists were told for generations that they weren’t Irish, despite being born on the island of Ireland. Guess what? We are . That doesn’t mean you are less British. Far from it. As mentioned above, in the councils with a Nationalist majority, Nationalists share power, and respect the identities of others. In Unionist-majority councils, they don’t share power. Can you see who is being democratic and who isn’t?

    Get off your knees, people. Remove the blinkers. Your flag wasn’t thrown in the bin, it will just fly on less days. If it bothers you that much, hang one outside your house, or carry one in your pocket whenever you visit Belfast. Celebrate your Britishness in whatever way you can. Be vocal in your support of the Union, but understand and recognise that there is a sizeable minority who have different views to yours, but will and do respect your views, as you should theirs.

  58. If the flag is now going to be flown on official designated days in accordance with how it operates on official and government buildings throughout the rest of the UK then what is the problem ?

  59. Actually, Colm, Mahons, et al, the policy throughout the UK is to fly the Union flag 365 days a year on council buildings.

    We are asking for the EXACT same.

    A very reasonable position, except of course in Belfast, we have rabid nationalists unable to tolerate anything British.

  60. Actually that is not the policy throughout the United Kingdom. Scotland also has some flag protocols of its own. And isn’t it true that the Union Jack was only flown on government buildings on specific days up until 2007?

    Frankly to me the entire controversy is senseless.

  61. Colm,

    LU demonstrates above exactly what the problem is.

    ‘Rabid Nationalists unable to tolerate anything British’, voted that the flag be flown on designated days. ‘Rabid Nationalists’ accepted a compromise. ‘Rabid nationalists’ did not go out and riot.

  62. No Mahons, in the council meeting, the DUP read out a long list of councils who adopt the EXACT same policy of flying the Union Flag every day of the year.

    In Scotland, they decided in the devolved government to fly the soltaire.

    Maybe this would be something we could copy and fly the red hand of Ulster from the City Hall, every day of the year.

    (stand back and just watch the reaction to this suggestion, and you’ll see what I mean about rabid nationalists)

    oh, and No, it wasn’t true that it only was flown on specific days, it was flown every day, as it should be, the same way as the stars and stripes flies over buildings in the US.
    On that note, how would you feel if Al Queda formed a political party and voted to remove the stars and stripes from a council/senate building?

    Would you feel outraged?

    Maybe then you can understand how we feel.

  63. No semi, rabid nationalists ‘voted tactically’, openly admitted by McVeigh of sfira on the night, in the council.

    An openly sectarian gesture, and a deliberate attempt at moving anything British away from Belfast.

  64. Senseless is removing the flag of a sovereign nation from its very capital city building.

  65. SF accepted a compromise to continue flying the Union flag at city hall. Spin it whatever way you like, that’s what happened. Hardly ‘An openly sectarian gesture, and a deliberate attempt at moving anything British away from Belfast.’

    ‘Senseless is removing the flag of a sovereign nation from its very capital city building.’

    No, senseless is rioting, destruction of property, and attacking residential neighbourhoods, places of worship and the police because you won’t accept a reasonable compromise.

    And i notice you’ve gone back to your infantile mis-spelling of my name. That shows how pathetic your arguments are becoming.

  66. Henry, since it represents three counties of a foreign country, then it has no place in the UK.

    I thought that would be obvious, and dare I say it, Logical!

    Right, I’m off writing, have a nice day and make someone smile.

  67. ‘Right, I’m off writing, have a nice day and make someone smile.’

    You made me smile by leaving 🙂

  68. Logical – You are mistaken. There was no protocol in the UK for flying flags from government buildings every day prior to recent years. While he is not beloved, it was Gordon Brown who promoted the flying of the flag every day.

    Scotland and Northern Ireland have distinct histories that make them rather unique in the way symbolic things such as flags are displayed. As with many symbolic things the proponents and opponents tend to get carried away.

  69. Actually, Colm, Mahons, et al, the policy throughout the UK is to fly the Union flag 365 days a year on council building

    Except that it isn’t

    http://www.bedford.gov.uk/council_and_democracy/civic_and_ceremonial/flags_uk_government_buildings.aspx

    Maybe this would be something we could copy and fly the red hand of Ulster from the City Hall, every day of the year

    I assume that you’re speaking about the flagon the N.I. government 1953 – 1972 which has no legal status?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Banner

    Rabid Nationalists unable to tolerate anything British

    Yes, of course. What language are we communicating in again?

  70. LU

    Henry, since it represents three counties of a foreign country, then it has no place in the UK.

    Why were three Ulster counties excluded from Northern Ireland? To ensure a Protestant majority.

    What’s the thing about majority rule? It works both ways.

    There are only two ways of doing this. Either each community does what it likes where it has a majority. Or we try to find some middle ground together.

  71. If the gap between unionist and nationalist voters narrows as expected then the likes of the Alliance are going to hold the balance of power in a lot of places. I know, let’s alienate them and drive them into the arms of the other side. Now that’s what passes for logical unionism.

  72. A politician receiving death threats over the flying of a flag?

    Where was this, some background, developing country inhabited by base savages?
    Afghanistan? Nigeria? Papua New Guinea?

    Oh, dear. I’m mistaken. It’s actually a country that purports to belong to the civilized, developed world: Northern Ireland.

    Let henceforth no one here on ATW express scorn when uneducated Asian Muslims make death threats against somebody who insults a Koran or some other inanimate, intrinsically worthless object.

  73. Paul, Bedford? lol

    Dear me, you are scraping the barrel…

    The MAJORITY of councils fly the Union Flag every day.

    Evey country does the same, why would the UK be different?

    ps, Richard Clinton, I notice it is the Union FLAG… lol

  74. These Loyal Unionists remind me of the fundie Muslims.

    Take down a flag and they’ll burn you to the ground and riot all over the place.

  75. The flag of the United Kingdom, of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    End of story, should be flown throughout the UK, and any attempt to usurp the democratic wishes of the UK should be met with the same force as if the USA had a group like Al Queda, responsible for thousands of deaths trying to do the same.

    The flag of our Nation will fly, and any attempt to attack it from provo voters should be met with ultimate disdain and legal opposition.

  76. Crack that whip, Pinky.

    I swear, you’d think the regulars would know by now that their past words will always be brought to light by atw’s resident memory keeper.

  77. Unfortunately Daphne, the poor girl has melted into obsession…there is no dossier, just like her hero, Tony Bliar.

  78. LU, I know Pinky can harp when she sets her teeth, but you definitely provided enough incriminating evidence on that topic to garner her relentless hazing.

    Don’t take it personally, Pinky goes after everyone who can’t keep their stories straight.

    She also rigorously defends people being pounded by self-righteous hypocrites.

    Pinky has her flaws, as we all do, but overall the woman is quite grand.

  79. Paul, Bedford? lol

    Perhaps you have trouble reading the link?

    The Lord Chamberlain’s Department, through the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and the national Executives, issues a list of Flag Days on which UK Government buildings should fly the national flag.
    This does not prevent them flying the national flag on any other day that they feel is appropriate or desirable

    The MAJORITY of councils fly the Union Flag every day

    Can you post a link to verify that or is it just an assumption?

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