68 2 mins 9 yrs

It’s the story behind the story that needs discussed.

A British man and an American woman are believed to be among three Westerners killed in an ambush by government forces in Syria who claimed they were carrying out the orders of an al Qaeda-linked terrorist cell. The trio were said to have died while taking photographs of military positions in Idlib province, near the Turkish border. Yesterday 33-year-old Nicole Lynn Mansfield, from Michigan, was revealed as one of the dead after Syrian state television broadcast images of her passport on Wednesday. The attack is said to have happened on the same day British doctor Isa Abdur Rahman, 26, a graduate of Imperial College London who had travelled to the country to treat injured civilians, died when a makeshift hospital was shelled in Idlib province

Now, whether the Syrian Government can be trusted is an issue we can debate but this much does seem clear…

UP to 100 extremists from Britain have joined the fighting in Syria, William Hague told MPs last night.

The UK has become a SOURCE of exporting Jihad. That is truly remarkable but what is EVEN more amazing is that Hague wants to ARM these “rebels”

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68 thoughts on “BRITAIN EXPORTS JIHAD…

  1. Is it illegal under British law for a UK citizen to fight in ( any ) foreign war?

    It -can- be illegal for US citizens to fight for a foreign army / cause though I think it is rarely prosecuted.

  2. so what is the government doing to monitor the families of those that have left Britain to go fight in Syria?

    These people and there families and associates are a ticking time bomb in the country. How peaceful will these people be after a year or two of active fighting in Syria?

    Instead of sending arms I think it would be a great idea if each was issued a suicide belt as they left, at least you won’t then have to worry about them coming back.

  3. Perhaps he means to give them British Leyland guns…ones that are only lethal to the people using them.

    No the Gubbermint wallies are seeking to arm Alky Aida (again…remember Libya) and I’m baffled if I can figure out why they would want to do that..and they call themselves Tories…Really? Baffling. Maybe our Gov is secretly bonkers..although it’s not that much of a secret. Top marks to Putin for giving AA rockets to Assad…that should put a damper on our governments eagerness to get involved.

  4. Not everyone travelling to Syria to fight is an Islamist. Many are simply going to defend their people from the butcher Assad, and more power to their elbows.

  5. Well Petr…you say they are tourists, whereas most would says they are terrorists.

    Need to work on your spelling there pal. Again well done Putin…

  6. It is interference if the US / Europe becomes involved, but it’s not if foreign adventurers go to fight there?

  7. you say they are tourists

    No I don’t, you crack head.

    Again well done Putin…

    Quite. If Putin, as the word on the street has it, is providing Assad with S300 anti-aircraft hardware, it will mean no more criminal air raids from Israel. The S300 has a range of 200km, can intercept fighter jets and missiles, and simultaneously strike multiple targets.

  8. I wish none of it was happening. The Gulf states are pouring money and arms in, Turkey is interfering, Iran is interfering, Israel is interfering, Hezbollah is interfering. The whole thing is a disaster. The only point I was making in the previous comment was that anything that restrains Israel’s criminal actions in the region is positive.

  9. The Briton has been named as Ali Al-Manasfi.

    So that’s just a bloke with a British passport then.

  10. The only certain loser is the Syrian people.

    I am astonished that it got this bad this fast. In this divided a society, I have a hard time imagining a good outcome.

  11. Petr – If Assad is the Butcher Assad, then Putin giving him weapons is well done?

  12. “Not everyone travelling to Syria to fight is an Islamist. Many are simply going to defend their people from the butcher Assad, and more power to their elbows.”

    Only Petr the Bold could defend “concerned Muslims” American or British “citizens” travelling from their country of adoption, not to take a vacation or study or work.
    Oh no..
    To fight in wars that America or Britain have no formal involvement with..

    So Petr says “all power to their elbows”, and using THAT logic we could say that Lee Rigby’s killer saved themselves a heap of air fare money by prosecuting a war here.

    VERY considerate of them, eh Petr?

    You are one weird socialist.

  13. Petr – correct. Only white people can be British.

    Good on Putin for sending advanced AA missiles to Syria. It will make Israel and its US/UK lackeys think twice about ‘providing humanitarian assistance’. From Libya follows the proverb, ‘fool me once, shame on you: fool me twice, shame on me’.

  14. Agit8ed – I don’t necessarily have a problem with people who wish to go fight Assad if their goal is to help prevent his dictatorial misdeeds. Heck, there were Americans who fought Franco and Hitler. My concern would be if they adopted the ideals of some jihadist nutcases and saw the fight in that context.

  15. Here’s how Israel can mess up Syria’s armed forces: import them some Africans. The once-renowned military of South Africa is now foundering in incompetence:

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/08/12/not-one-of-the-r8-billion-arms-deal-submarines-is-operational

    South Africa’s fleet of attack submarines, which cost an estimated R8-billion in the infamous arms deal, are all in dry dock after the only operational vessel crashed into the seabed. This means that all three submarines – meant to police the oceans – are presently undergoing repairs and maintenance.

    The SAS Queen Modjadji, named after South Africa’s rain queen who lived in Limpopo, struck the ocean floor while conducting training exercises between Port Elizabeth and Durban last week. The accident is the latest in a string of submarine incidents over the past two years and comes three months after the Queen Modjadji welcomed a new commander, Commander Handsome Thamsanqa Matsane.

  16. mahons 431

    That’s a big problem.

    This ain’t the Lincoln Brigade.

    The foreign adventurers will be mixing up with jihadists from the rest of the world. Nothing good will come of that.

  17. Phantom – Indeed it is not. Nor the Sons of Saint Patrick who fought with the Mexicans against the US.

  18. //No I don’t, you crack head. //

    Petr, you misunderstand: that was meant to be a joke.

    I don’t see how it makes much difference why people go to fight Assad.
    The question is whether his removal would on balance be a good thing or not – and that remains to be seen.

    Removing a dictator by force almost always leads to a bit of mayhem afterwards.
    I think the best that can be hoped for is that the present talks lead to a ceasefire and then some sort of coalition, with an undertaking that elections will be held in the near future.

  19. I matters why they go. Removing him because he is a tyrant is a defensible reason. Removing him because you want to put another tyrant in place is not.

  20. //I matters why they go. Removing him because he is a tyrant is a defensible reason.//

    But you aren’t likely to engage them in debate ever, and their reasons will scarcely arise. For them of course the reasons, whatever they are, will always be very defensible. Then again, for the people of different countries, different reasons will be defensible/indefensible. I think if we are all happy with the outcome, the reasons don’t matter, unless you live in a very idealistic world.
    If someone rushes into a burning building and puts out the fire, it matters a damn whether he wanted to save the people within or just a picture of Muhammad he saw hanging on the wall.

  21. The reasons most certainly matter, and matter among the factions. Replacing Assad with something more dangerous to Syrians and the world at large isn’t a great result.

  22. Yes.

    You could replace a murderous thug with the devil himself.

    The Russians have been warning of this for some time. There better be some good and frank dialogue with the Russians.

    The West ( esp the Euros ) are way too eager to aid ” the rebels “

  23. //The reasons most certainly matter, and matter among the factions. Replacing Assad with something more dangerous //

    Yes, but that is the result, which I also said was paramount.

    I think it’s impossible to tell at the moment what the result will be. Things have a habit of working out very differently to what was hoped for/dreaded and despite the best efforts of the parties involved or their intentions.

    I think many in the West exaggerate the power of AQ and its affiliates. They were effectively run out of Iraq, not by the US with its enormous resources but by the people on the street.
    If the situation in Syria is ripe for an Islamist takeover (and I’d say it gets more ripe with every massacre by state forces), then it will happen irrespective of who is fighting or why.

    If, on the other hand, the people want a break from being bossed around and want to try a spell of being normal for a change, then no Islamist movement will be able to get past them.

    If the war had ended with a rebel victory a long time ago, things would look much brighter. Now, as I said, the best option seems to be a roundtable kind of solution, as worked in Lebanon and is working in Northern Ireland, where each side keeps the others in check, and in the middle there is room to breathe.

  24. Petr – If Assad is the Butcher Assad, then Putin giving him weapons is well done?

    I loath Assad but whoever is in power in Syria has a right to protect themselves from external aggression. This kind of hardware is almost certain not to be used against rebels or civilians (it’s purpose is mostly air defence) and should act as a deterrent to the lunatic next door. It may actually save lives.

  25. Translation – My anti-Israel hysteria trumps my ability to denounce the supply of further military supplies to a tyrannical regime presently murdering its own people.

    Got it.

  26. Pff.. if that floats your boat. I won’t bother answering next time if you’re just going to decide for yourself.

  27. I don’t get the reference, Mahons. Israel has entered the war in Syria. May they face the consequences of their own aggression.

  28. Mahons,
    “. My concern would be if they adopted the ideals of some jihadist nutcases and saw the fight in that context.”

    There were idealists who went to fight in Spain; George Orwell of course and the members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade..
    http://www.democracynow.org/2007/4/30/fighting_fascism_the_americans_women_and

    The point is though that they were idealists. I suspect many of these folk are Muslim first, last and always.
    Let’s look at this rationally Mahonially,
    Let’s ask ourselves a question.
    ” From all the evidence we have of Islamic values and behaviour,
    stated and practiced; would you or I want to live in a world dominated and controlled by those values?”

    See,whilst I can accept that there are many many nice, law abiding Muslims in the world, I cannot see what they add to our (westeren) world in terms of
    literature
    science
    philosophy
    social care
    medical discoveries
    humour
    art
    civil liberties
    female emancipation
    freedom of speech
    tolerance.

    Can you ?

  29. Petr – Sophie’s Choice is a book/movie about a holocaust survivor who was force to choose which hone of her two children would survive. I figure as person of, shall we say left-wing sympathy, you have the dilemma of having a dictator on one side who is committing mass murder and then the holy grail of leftwing carping about Israel.

    I imagine things were like this for your party elders when China and Russia were at odds.

  30. Agit8ed- If I promise to set up a post here every day for you to flounder in at will, will you promise to utilize that and not interrupt discussions with lengthy comments that boil down to your wish to write off a large section of humanity?

  31. Interference from Putin ( and Iran ) in a civil war is ok?

    Yeah, because Russia’s the one and only country to do that.

    The nouns pot & kettle & the adjective black spring to mind.

  32. “Commander Handsome Thamsanqa Matsane”

    You get what you deserve, putting to sea under the command of someone with a name like that.

  33. I’d say there are a lot of people who view this conflict – and indeed all the upheavals in the Arab world – primarily from Jerusalem or from Ramallah.

    Both are mistaken. Even if that were the most important issue (and what a gloomy world it would be if it were), peace between the Arab world and Israel will, short of some kind of Armageddon, best be achieved, can only be achieved, when the Arab states are democratic, free and strong. The presence of Assads and Islamicists postpones a just settlement just as much as Netanyahu does.

  34. “The West ( esp the Euros ) are way too eager to aid ” the rebels “”

    Especially the Euros?

    It wasn’t a Euro Ambassador in Benghazi who was doing arms deals between libyans and the islamist nutters in Syria (sorry, “the rebels” as we’re supposed to call them).

  35. Paul

    Don’t blame the US for Assad.

    Blame everything else on Washington, but on that one I point you to Moscow and Tehran and to the drug trafficing Hezbollah.

  36. Mahons — Believe it or not (and I wish it weren’t so) many on the left shill for the Assad regime. There’s by no means a unitary leftist position on Syria. As for carping about Israel.. come on, Israel has bombed Syria three times in the past few months. If Syria has better hardware, it makes such dangerous escalations less likely.

    Nicely done on your 6:59pm, by the way.

  37. Mahonio.
    YOU said,
    “My concern would be if they adopted the ideals of some jihadist nutcases and saw the fight in that context.”

    and I asked what really has Islam brought to the West anyway (list supplied).

    Now I think it is very generous of you to offer me my own post, but scout’s honour all I was trying to do was look a bit deeper into the whole problem of Islam in the West.

    For example, do you think Lee Rigby’s hackers amateur butchers killers were idealists?

  38. Mahons,
    I think I may have discovered the main difference between us.
    (Apart from the fact that I like and support the Troll that is).

    I think you are basically a legalist whose world is governed by
    ” The law says…”
    and I like to think about why people do what they do irrespective of the law.

  39. Don’t blame the US for Assad

    I don’t Phantom I just thought it a bit rich castigating Putin for becoming involved in a civil war as if he were the first to do it.

  40. I don’t know which is worst

    The West, who at times can be moralistic and naive ( not a compliment )
    or
    The Russians and Chinese, who are entirely amoral and calculating.

  41. The West, who at times can be moralistic and naive ( not a compliment )
    or
    The Russians and Chinese, who are entirely amoral and calculating.

    That is monumentally naive!

  42. Agie: do you think Lee Rigby’s hackers amateur butchers killers were idealists

    They were actors, didn’t you get Allan’s memo?

  43. If you don’t think that the West has been naive and moralistic at times, you’re nuts.

  44. Ah, the old I’m right and if you disagree you’re nuts, without any supporting evidence. Bravo.

  45. Agit8ed – The problem is you are in love with your own stream of conscious. No one (myself included) suggested Rigby’s killers are idealists. What makes you think that question makes any sense?

    As for your obsession with my profession I can’t help you.

  46. On the subject of Syria, this is a very interesting BBC Arabic documentary about a Syrian state TV channel. Provides a rare window into how state propaganda is produced.

  47. Mahons,

    “Agit8ed – The problem is you are in love with your own stream of conscious. No one (myself included) suggested Rigby’s killers are idealists. What makes you think that question makes any sense?”

    I am in love with my own stream of consciousness??

    Did I SAY that you thought Lee Rigby’s killers were idealists?
    I asked you the question.

    You started off (4:23)by saying that,

    ” I don’t necessarily have a problem with people who wish to go fight Assad if their goal is to help prevent his dictatorial misdeeds. Heck, there were Americans who fought Franco and Hitler. My concern would be if they adopted the ideals of some jihadist nutcases and saw the fight in that context.”

    I followed up on that by asking what Islam has added to our Western culture..

    Not only do you attack people whose views you dislike (like the Troll or Patty) you try to rubbish straightforward reasonable observations and questions you don’t like.
    You poke fun, you insult.
    You may think I’m daft, but as far as I can see you exercise the same kind of integrity as Petr.

  48. Agit

    Even the Vietnam war, which was an entirely wrong action, a mistake of the millenium on the part of the US, had a huge moralistic and naivete component.

    Communism was seen as a pure evil ( largely true ) and it was seen by very many as a means of protecting the people of SE Asia and the greater world from that pure evil.

    The staggering error was that Ho Chi Minh was a lot more of a nationalist than he ever was a communist, and that he very openly wanted to a USA that he admired publicly

    Now you may think that moralism is a compliment, but you are wrong. The moralist position that the Vietnamese Communists could never be trusted, that they would kill all the Christians there, etc was very real and can be verified by reading contemporary news of the 1950s and 1960s.

    The standard lefty bullshit – that it was a war prompted by an economic lust for rice paddies, the oil, or whatever is not on. Moralism again is not a compliment here.

  49. Agit8ed- There have been Islamic contributions throughout the course of history in all of the fields you mentioned. Not that it has any relation to the topic at hand.

    I disagree with almost everyone here at some point, but I reserve “attacks” for those who are deserving. The two you mention have consistently been among the deserving.

  50. “Oh thanks very much, Agie. You have a nice weekend now!”

    I should have said “intellectual integrity”. Petr, I can’t make up my mind whether you are an intelligent but naive romantic socialist idealist or a cynical Marxist; posing as an intelligent naive and romantic socialist idealist. 🙂
    Don’t forget, I lived the socialistic communal life. I have spent 18 of my years on this earth in unpaid idealistic/convictionist work of various kinds.
    As far as I know you haven’t.

  51. I meant Petr and not Agit

    There are many other examples of moralism in US policy, from Woodrow Wilson to Jimmy Carter

    Which again to the hard of thinking, is not a compliment!

  52. Agie — Whatever! 😉

    Phantom — Nobody said it was a compliment but you’ve said now three or four times that it’s not. Who’s hard of thinking? 🙂

    Have a good Friday, folks. I’m off for a few nice cold beers.

  53. Petr

    You have said that there was no supporting evidence of moralism and naivete in US foreign policy.

    I say that there are presidential libraries filled with evidence of moralism and naivete in US foreign policy.

  54. “Have a good Friday, folks. I’m off for a few nice cold beers.”

    Alone.
    wearing his student scarf and his chequered tablecloth.. 🙂

    Enjoy, Petrkin.

  55. ” The two you mention have consistently been among the deserving.”

    Just to be clear, you mean the Troll and Patty.
    As a Holy Joe pious ponce sort of guy, I think the Troll has an integrity I admire even if I disagree with him on some issues (guns ‘n killing people) Patty is imv harder to understand, but she fights her corner, she gives reasonable arguments, and I don’t see why either of them should be given a hard time by people who perhaps see themselves as intelligent, liberal, tolerant and inclusive…

  56. Agit8ed – Isn’t that the beauty of it all. You are free to ignore their constant behavior and I am free not to ignore it.

  57. Ha Ha!
    AND you are free to ignore the things that displease you or jar with your cosy, libersl take on things.
    I don’t ignore their opinions, I take them with a pinch of salt and another pinch of humility, and a good helping of tolerance.

  58. I say that there are presidential libraries filled with evidence of moralism and naivete in US foreign policy.

    We’ll talk about this soon.

    Ok, gone.

  59. //You have said that there was no supporting evidence of moralism and naivete in US foreign policy. //

    He didn’t mean that, Phantom.

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