119 2 mins 8 yrs

When most of us buy a loaf of bread, we go for a brand, a bakery or supermarket logo, an item we have grown used to. We sometimes moan a little at the ever-rising (pun-alert! Ed.) cost of the average loaf, but we pay; and butter the result, or toast, to our own liking. But what might be in our minds if we were all members or adherents of the ultra-orthodox Hasidic Jewish sect based near New York.

These guys not only import their own wheat from near the Mexican border, they even supervise its harvesting and growth, so that it conforms to the strictest standards of Kosher manufacture. The farmer don’t get no say, a Hasidic man drives the combine, and only after the farmer has assured the rabbis that no water has been near the crop to even hint at sprouting ears.

Too far? Too uptight? Possibly; but if your very religion and race were threatened with actual extinction just a few decades ago, I reckon the Hasids have the right to determine what goes into their matzo bread, which incidentally tastes great with chunky Scots marmalade.

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119 thoughts on “Staff of life?

  1. the farmer does get a say. He gets to choose if this is what he wants to subject his growing standards to, and he gets paid quite well for it. As the farmer states. “if I can meet these guys standards I can meet anyones”

  2. Most British bread seems to be rubbish these days, especially that from the supermarkets. The bread is crumbly and tasteless and the crusts too tough to eat. If you want to bake your own, it is difficult to get the right flour, but we have now discovered a source of good flour made from Manitoba wheat, and the bread is just like it used to be.

  3. There were but two places where good strong, ‘high gluten’ wheat, – an absolute essential for good ‘Manna’, – was grown, – Hungary and Canada.

    Post WWII the bulk was imported from Canada, – until we fell under the pall of the EU, who proceeded to limit imports of all manner of foodstuff from places other than EU members. Wheat was one of them, along with New Zealand lamb, butter and other much missed ‘good stuff’.

    To say that the quota was ridiculously small would be an understatement, – our bakery alone consumed some ten percent of the annual allowance. The Hungarian source was demolished during the war and seems never to have recovered.

    For my sins, for over thirty years I owned a small group of artisan bakeries in London, and we took great pride in the quality and selection of bread that we offered. However that quality suffered somewhat because of the poor quality flour that was subsequentlly all that was avaiable.

    Another detrimenatal change was in the mixing and ‘resting’ of the dough, – previously known as the fermentation process, which was the traditional, if time consuming method, to one known as the Chorleywood process, – where rather than the yeast maturing the dough, and thereby developing flavour, texture and anti-staling quality over an extended period of hours, the mixing was done on a high speed mixer which ‘developed’ the dough mechanically and in a much shorter time.

    The new method certainly had improved anti-staling properties, but entirley lacked the flavour and texture of bread produced by fermenation. Of course that was all the supermarkets were interested in – the ‘shelf-life’. It also fitted in better with the changing household shopping patterns, from a daily chore to the once or twice weekly expedition.

    And so the closure of the ‘local bakerery’ shops in the High Street continued apace.

    Just thought you might like to know some of the detail… 🙂

  4. The Hasidics don’t want Monsanto’s products, do they? And they are correct to demand full traceability of their food. At least they, unlike the ignorant mass of consumers, are interested in the origins of their food.

    But I have serious problems with the ‘production’ of kosher meat – a cruel and barbaric practice which should be outlawed by any society which claims to be civilised.

  5. If your very religion and race were threatened with actual extinction just a few decades ago

    I’ve heard that excuse before but never in justifying religious dietry requirements.

  6. Interesting comment Ernest. As far as I know that is the first time here you have mentioned your quite extensive involvement in and knowledge of bread making. Yet another string to your wide ranging bow of life.

  7. Colm,

    I try not to ‘crow or cry’ about things done and not done, – and there is a time and place for a chat on almost everything! Anyway – thank you!

  8. You’re involved in bread making Ernest?

    One of the greatest delacacies of life is the soda bread farl. Something I miss on a daily basis.

  9. I don’t really like any sort of white bread, with the exception of currant bread.

  10. good stuff, Ernest!
    Paul, soda bread is relatively easy to make…you shouldn’t ever have to miss it!

  11. Veda malt bread is also delicious although I suspect that it may be a uniquely Irish phenomenon.

  12. They make canned buttermilk now…:-) It won’t be quite as good as the real thing but it could stave off a craving or two!

  13. Actually I do like Soda bread (does that count as white bread ?) – so that would be an exception to my ‘no white bread’ rule.

  14. No Paul, – I used to be a Master Baker – well, I still am, but I retired from that many years ago. We used to make soda bread, among some of our thirty daily varieties, although Vienna bread was our forte, my Father won many competitions pre-war and was highly regarded ‘in the trade’ for his expertise.

    My Grandfather also enjoyed a reputation for his skills – those were the days when doughs were mixed by hand, – 240 pounds of flour mixed into dough in a trough, – backbreaking work, and him such a little fella! – a real man’s job!

    Our confectionery was pretty good stuff also, we supplied Harrods wih many lines and my proudest boast was when I landed a contract to supply the Calais Carrefore with our line of baguettes and batons, – a bit like selling fridges to Eskimos.

    The loss of the High Street bakeries is just a part of the passage of time, never to be replaced, bread made and baked ‘on the premises’, long gone and never to be replaced, a sad thing to say, but ‘that’s progress’.

    All this ended some thirty years ago, and I went to other things, now I am taking things a little easier, all in all, a varied and enjoyable life, if you have any good ideas that a mentally and physically able octagenarian can do – then please let me know!…

  15. ” If your very religion and race were threatened with actual extinction just a few decades ago

    I’ve heard that excuse before but never in justifying religious dietry requirements.”

    Paul,
    We know.
    You made that clear re circumcision.
    But both circumcised and adherents seem to be going along just fine. No signs of extinction there. 😉

  16. The loss of the High Street bakeries is just a part of the passage of time

    Thankfully quite a few ‘home bakeries’ independent bakers shops still survive in Belfast Ernest but I largely agree with you. With the advent of supermarkets sadly saw the demise of independent bakeries.

    Are you familiar with the story of Masterbaker Barney Hughes? Inventor of the ‘Bap’ (now called the ‘Belfast Bap’ by trndy urbane professionals), the cheap bread which was a lifeline to the city’s poor during the great hunger and a staple of the Belfastonian breakfast and snack for over 150 years.

  17. I suppose nowadays a ‘great hunger’ would be the name given to the consequences of a power cut affecting the local Burger Bars,Pizza parlours/Indian-Chinese takeaways and Kebab shops 🙂

  18. No Paul, I am not familiar with the name, nor a Belfast bap, – so many regions with so many little delights to try, and most are but variations on a theme, – just how much can one do with a piece of dough? – after all, its the love and the effort that goes into making that makes it special..

    I’ve just looked him up on Google, – seems he was a nice fella, and like most Master Bakers – a pillar of his community.

    Thanks for the tip – I’ll read more later!

  19. A champion of Belfast’s poor and a great believer in promotin of education among that class.

    Colm, unfortunately I suspect that your comment has more than a grain of truth in it.

  20. ” Thank you Colm I do try. I’ve never been one to loaf around. ”

    Now that’s a little bit corny..

  21. Paul,

    I think you might find that most of the skilled artisan trades shared a similar interest in education, after all, the working class was/is the source of future employees, and their education was of benefit to all.

    Apprenticeships were the original idea of the Trade Guilds and to succesfully complete a five year stint and to receive a City and Guilds certificate was on a par to most uni degrees, certainly the effort involved was no less and the pride in receiving one just as great. It was more than just a piece of paper, – it was confirmation that you were mentally and physically able and worth hiring, and that used to mean a lot.

    However, your man obviously earned a well deserved place in many folks hearts, and an example which we could well use in todays misbegotten social environment.

  22. Oh crumbs.

    Anymore half-baked puns and I’ll be leaven this thread for good.

  23. Don’t worry.
    They’ll either stop oventually. Personally I find some of these puns loavesome…

  24. Stale? Needs a bit of leavening up then.

    ….but if your very religion and race were threatened with actual extinction just a few decades ago…

    Maybe, maybe not. Just how many holoco$t survivors are there? According to figures of the Office of the Israeli Prime Minister, there were 830,000 – 960,000 alive in 1997 which, based on normal mortality rates points to 3.5 – 4.5 million alive in 1945:

    However, by 2004, the number of survivors had risen to 1,092,000 which, by normal mortality rates takes the number of survivors up to the magic 6 million:

    – An Israeli government report that claims to be the first of its kind has set material damage to the Jewish people during the Holocaust at some $240 billion to $330 billion.

    At the beginning of 2004, 1,092,000 Holocaust survivors were still living worldwide, about half of them in Israel. About 10 percent of survivors die each year, the report said. –

    Surely the figures of the Israeli government are wrong?

  25. I see two innumerates have commented. Either the Israeli government’s numbers of holocaust survivors are correct or a gross over-estimate. If correct, then there are at least 6 million holocaust survivors in 1945. If incorrect and an over-estimate, and I’ll assume that 6 million jews were murdered leaving far fewer holocaust survivors alive in 1945, then the Israeli government is shaking down Germany. Using Agit’s Palestine principle, how can a country which in 1945 DID NOT EXIST AS A STATE possibly claim reparations from Germany?

  26. how can a country which in 1945 DID NOT EXIST AS A STATE possibly claim reparations from Germany?

    Allan

    You have a point there. But you seem to have a problem with the holocaust. For the record, how many jews do you think the Nazis murdered?

  27. “An Israeli government report that claims to be the first of its kind has set material damage to the Jewish people during the Holocaust at some $240 billion to $330 billion.”

    Cheeky bastards.

  28. Pete Moore

    You have a point there. But just for the record, how many jews do you think the Nazis murdered?

  29. Peter –

    I have no idea. I’m pretty sure it’s not six million, which is a suspiciously round number that seemed to hanf around for a long time waiting for a cause.

    Funnily enough, a few years ago in here I questioned the six million on the basis that I had never seen empirical evidence for it, yet despite saying “the real toll could be four or eight million”, I was roundly criticised by some po-faced arsehole who I won;t name. My point was that the Holocaust is a globally accepted event, but I had never seen how six million had been arrived at.

    Some time later and the NYT reports that “the Holocaust just got more shocking”, with deaths possibly much higher than previously reported. So it was ok to question Holocaust Mk 1 all along!

    Look, aileen discovered the other day that Gandhi was a deeply racist man who despised blacks. One day the world will accept that Lincoln was a tyrant and a racist. One day the world might also have to accept that (I suspect) although there was some kind of programme of extermination, the death toll is somewhat lower than currently widely believed.

  30. Look, aileen discovered the other day that Gandhi was a deeply racist man who despised blacks. One day the world will accept that Lincoln was a tyrant and a racist.

    So what? Does mean that their opponents held the moral high ground?

  31. But you seem to have a problem with the holocaust. For the record, how many jews do you think the Nazis murdered?

    I have a very big problem with the holocaust. I never used to have that problem but once one perceives oneself as having been told a big lie – probably the biggest lie, then it can be rather annoying. But at least some jews are in agreement with me, and these would be what Churchill termed ‘national jews’ – jews who have linked their fate to that of the host people.

    Here is a jew or somebody of jewish background who disputes the gas chambers and the millions of victims, and there are many others as I have linked on this site:

    http://pauleisen.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/how-i-became-holocaust-denier-by-paul.html

    I question that there ever was an official plan on the part of Hitler or any other part of the National Socialist regime systematically and physically to eliminate every Jew in Europe.

    Ø I question that there ever existed homicidal gas-chambers.

    Ø I question the figure of six million Jewish victims of the Nazi assault and I believe that the actual figure was significantly less.

    And finally, one more thing I do not and do question: I do not question the horror of what was done to Jews by National Socialists or the right of Jews (including myself) to regard that horror any way they wish. I do, however, question their right to compel the rest of the world to feel the same.

    For my money, a child of six can see that something’s not right about the Holocaust narrative, and the science simply confirms what I already suspect. But I differ from the Holocaust Revisionists. They are scholars – historians and scientists who apply ‘truth and exactitude’ to determine the truth or otherwise of the Holocaust narrative. I’m no scholar. I care nothing for the chemical traces in brickwork or the topological evidence for mass graves. But I’ve read the literature, and it just doesn’t add up.

    My niece worked in Aberdeen crematorium and about three years ago, she made a chance remark about how much more fuel the crematorium had to use because bodies weren’t burning very well in the cold damp weather – the kind of weather associated with western Poland. I had seen some ‘denial’ literature which I had hitherto refused to read because, as you know, ‘holocaust deniers’ are evil and vicious although I didn’t deny them the right to expound their views mainly because I wanted to know who they are. And then I read the case against the holocaust – and it was clear and concise. No pro-Nazism, no revanchism etc. just the case and the supporting facts.

    The numbers killed in the camps – about 500,000 and mainly because of starvation and lice-borne disease caused by the destruction of the German logistical network. The records of the Red Cross support that number.

  32. Peter –

    “So what? Does mean that their opponents held the moral high ground?”

    Irrelevant. Gandhi and Lincoln are elevated to super-greatness while their opponents have long been denigrated, yet it’s the two heroes who were nothing like their court-approved hagiographies.

    Much of even widely believed and globally accepted history is false.

  33. That is true, yet these were among the very best and greatest that their nations produced.

    We can all agree on that.

  34. The numbers killed in the camps – about 500,000 and mainly because of starvation and lice-borne disease caused by the destruction of the German logistical network. The records of the Red Cross support that number.

    Thanks Allan. An honest answer.

  35. Much of even widely believed and globally accepted history is false.

    As in the holocaust?

  36. Peter –

    Yes, much of what is widely believed about the holocaust (which only became imprinted in human consciousness in the 1970s) is false. As I said above, I believe some type of programme was implemented, so don’t worry about that.

  37. A Jewish friend of mine flew into Berlin today. He and his wife will visit the Sachsenhausen camp tomorrow.

    These camps were rightly preserved, as a permanent and irrefutable testimony to what happened.

  38. What do you mean, they were preserved? Sachsenhausen, like many camps, looks nothing like it did prior to 1945.

    Send your friend an email. Remind him that Sachsenhausen was a death camp, operated by the Red Army and which many thousands perished after 1945. No, the camps were not closed at the end of the war. The Soviet Union kept them open.

  39. Phantom – are your jewish friends on a pilgrimage as part of the rites of belief for Holocaustians? Here another jew raises the matter of the holocaust as a religion and that those who challenge it are effectively heretics:

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-an-interesting-exchange-with-a-jewish-anti-zion.html

    Daniel: But surely you agree that you cannot debate with people who deny the Holocaust as a historical fact. And why should one raise questions where answers are already known to all?

    Gilad: Daniel, you are a very educated man, would you allow yourself to say the same thing about science? Would you dare saying “Chemistry has given us quite a good picture of what is happening in the world, so we may put an end to our research right here”? I don’t think so. And this is where integrity comes into the picture.

    So phantom – what should be done to those who deny the holocaust, and especially to jews who deny the holocaust?

    As for the Israeli report quoted in the linked article in my post of 7.49pm yesterday: do you agree with the figures or not?

  40. I visited Sachsenhasen.

    They tell you that it was used by the Soviets after the war. This is known.

    It is a very strange place tonvisit. You take the S Bahn ( commuter train ) and walk through a residential area to reach it

  41. My froends are on holiday. They are interested in history.

    Aftet Berlin, they will be drinking wine in Barcelona.

    Berlin and Barcelona holiday, unlikely but true.

    I don’t want to make most any speech a crime. Deny what you like.

  42. Holocaust denial as a crime is a very European thing.

    I don’t think that anyone of note has ever considered it in the US.

    The First Amendment is a good thing.

  43. That is a very interesting link Phantom. Never seen it before. I flicked through and found a section on other death camps..

    ” Every SS man had his favourite or special way of killing. Jews in the camp were murdered for the slightest misdemeanour; for working slowly, for not paying attention, some for no reason at all. The manner in which a Jew was killed varied, depending on the executioner; shooting, flogging, choking, hanging, fixing to crosses with the head down, cutting to pieces with knives or axes. Distinctive procedures were adopted when killing women. They were mostly flogged to death or killed by stabbing. The Nazis conducted their tortures, beatings and shootings to the accompaniment of music. For this purpose they organised a prisoners orchestra, led by Professor Stricts and the well-known conductor Mund. Composers were ordered to write a special tune, which was called “The Death Tango”. Shortly before the camp was liquidated the Nazis shot all members of the orchestra. ”

    http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/janowska.html
    We have discussed before the actual numbers of people (specifically but not exclusively Jews). It is the motivation behind all these killings and the treatment of a people who in the main had done nothing to justify this cold and calculating barbarism at the hands of a supposedly civilised nation.
    That they were different, that they mostly refused or were not allowed to integrate is undeniable. But does any of that justify the Holocaust?
    The other objections raised against the Jews are frankly so laughable that were they not also so malicious and full of hate, we could laugh.
    “They are plotting against the world”
    “They only look after each other”
    “They own Hollywood and the entertainment industry”
    “They are white Europeans posing as Jews”
    “There are no real Jews, only suicidal and masochistic people pretending to be Jews!”
    “They circumcise their baby boys without asking them first”
    “They obtained their State by violence”
    “For two thousand years they pretended to be persecuted and hated scapegoats, then once in a country they stole from the Palestinians, they turn out to be Nazis!”

    Quite pathetic.

  44. Fortunately the scale of lies is such that when put together into a film, The last Days by Steven Spielberg, the lies collapse quite neatly into their own footprint:

    https://sites.google.com/site/spielbergshoax/

    So Agit, in 1945 there was no STATE of Israel just as there was no STATE of Palestine. How therefore given your argument that because Palestine didn’t exist as a state that the land could be taken by jews can Israel (not in existence until 1948) possibly receive war ‘reparations’ from Germany even up to this very day?

  45. I’m going to go through Agit’s little list in his post of 10.00am. The first two are almost inseparable so I’ll deal with them simultaneously.

    Mass immigration into white countries is facilitated by activist jews, often against the interest of ordinary jews (the ‘lesser brethren’) who can be sacrificed anyway in the wider interest. Here we see a letter from jewish organisations in the US to President Obama beseeching him to grant amnesty to 11 million or more illegals in the US.

    http://intranet.hias.org/uploaded/file/019d91f6add54d316cbfafffb6012ebe.pdf

    March 22, 2013
    Dear President Obama and Members of Congress:
    We, the undersigned Jewish organizations and leaders, strongly believe that our country would benefit from an overhaul of our nation’s broken immigration system. Our views are shaped by our Jewish religious and ethical traditions, as well as our own history in this country and by core American values. The commandment to ‘welcome the stranger’ is mentioned 36 times throughout the Torah, more than any other commandment.

    yada, yada, yada….

    We look forward to working together to improve our country’s immigration system in a way that honors our American and Jewish values.

    Sincerely,

    National Organizations
     American Forum of Russian Jewry (AFRJ)
     American Jewish Committee
     Anti‐Defamation League
     Bend the Arc: A Jewish Partnership for Justice
     B’nai B’rith International
     Bukharian Jewish Congress of the USA and Canada
     HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society)
     Jewish Council on Public Affairs
     Jewish Federations of North America
     Keshet
     National Council of Jewish Women
     Orthodox Union
     Rabbinical Assembly
     Reconstructionist Rabbinical College
     Tikkun Olam Commission of the Jewish Reconstructionist Movement
     T’ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights
     Union for Reform Judaism
     Uri L’Tzedek
     Women of Reform Judaism
    Local Organizations
     AJC Cincinnati
     AJC Cleveland
     AJC Houston
     AJC Los Angeles
     AJC New York
     AJC Philadelphia/Southern New Jersey
     Anti‐Defamation League of Eastern PA and Southern NJ
     Congregation Meor Hachaim of Luna Park (New York, NY)
     FEGS Health & Human Services (New York, NY)
     Greater Philadelphia Jewish Coalition on Immigration
     HIAS Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA)
     Indianapolis Jewish Community Relations Council
     Jewish Alliance for Law and Social Action (Boston, MA)
     Jewish Community Action (St. Paul, MN)
     Jewish Community Center at Starrett City (New York, NY)
     Jewish Community Relations Council of Philadelphia
     Jewish Council on Urban Affairs (Chicago, IL)
     Jewish Family & Career Services (Atlanta, GA)
     Jewish Family & Children’s Service (Pittsburgh, PA)
     Jewish Family & Children’s Services of the East Bay (Berkeley, CA)
     Jewish Family Service of Buffalo & Erie County New York
     Jewish Family Service of Western Massachusetts, Inc.
     Jewish Family Services (Ann Arbor, MI)
     Jewish Labor Committee Western Region (Los Angeles, CA)
     Jewish Social Policy Action Network (Philadelphia, PA)
     Jewish Vocational Service of MetroWest (East Orange, NJ)
     Jews for Racial & Economic Justice (New York, NY)
     Massachusetts Board of Rabbis (Newton, MA)
     National Council of Jewish Women ‐ Greater Philadelphia
     National Council of Jewish Women Texas State Policy Advocates
     UJA‐Federation of New York
     Women of Vision (Philadelphia, PA)
    Community and Faith Leaders
     Rabbi Abie Ingber, Executive Director, Center for Interfaith Community Engagement,
    Xavier University (Cincinnati, OH)
     Rabbi Alan Iser (Wynnewood, PA)
     Rabbi Alison Abrams, Jewish Council on Urban Affairs (Chicago, IL)
     Rabbi Amy Eilberg, Jay Phillips Center for Interfaith Learning (St. Paul, MN)
     Rabbi Ayelet Cohen, Director of the Center for Jewish Living, The JCC in Manhattan (New
    York, NY)
     Rabbi Barbara Penzer, Rabbi, Templle Hillel B’nai Torah (Boston, MA)
     Rabbi Bruce J. Pfeffer, BCC (Indianapolis, IN)
     Rabbi Burton Visotzky (New York, NY)
     Rabbi Claire Magidovitch Green, Director, Best Interfaith Simcha (Philadelphia, PA)
     Rabbi David Rosenn (New York, NY)
     Rabbi David Teutsch, Director, Center for Jewish Ethics, Reconstructionist Rabbinical
    College (Philadelphia, PA)
     Rabbi Dennis C. Sasso, Congregation Beth‐El Zedeck (Indianapolis, IN)
     Rabbi Ellen Lippmann, Founding Rabbi, Kolot Chayeinu/Voices of Our Lives (Brooklyn, NY)
     Rabbi Eric Solomon, Rabbi, Beth Meyer Synagogue (Raleigh, NC)
     Rabbi George Barnard, Northern Hills Synagogue (Cincinnati, OH)
     Rabbi Gerald Serotta, Rabbi, Shirat HaNefesh Congregation (Chevy Chase, MD)
     Rabbi Jan Katzew, PhD, Director of Service‐Learning, HUC‐JIR (Cincinnati, OH)
     Rabbi Jeremy Gerber, Rabbi, Ohev Shalom (Wallingford, PA)
     Rabbi Jill Jacobs, Executie Director, T’ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights (New York,
    NY)
     Rabbi Jill Maderer, Associate Rabbi, Congregation Rodeph Shalom (Philadelphia, PA)
     Rabbi Joel Simonds, University Synagogue (Los Angeles, CA)
     Rabbi John Franken, Rabbi, Bolton Street Synagogue (Baltimore, MD)
     Rabbi Jonathan D. Klein, Executive Director, Clergy and Laity United for Economic Justice
    (CLUE‐LA)
     Rabbi Julie Greenberg, Senior Rabbi, Leyv Ha‐Ir ‐ Heart of the City (Philadelphia, PA)
     Rabbi Karen Bodney‐Halasz, Associate Rabbi/Educator, Temple Israel (Dayton, OH)
     Rabbi Lauren Grabelle Herrmann, Rabbi, Kol Tzedek Synagogue (Philadelphia, PA)
     Rabbi Lewis Kamrass, Isaac M Wise Temple (Cincinnati, OH)
     Rabbi Linda Holtzman, Senior Rabbi, Mishkan Shalom (Philadelphia, PA)
     Rabbi Linda Potemken, Beth Israel of Media (Wynnewood, PA)
     Rabbi Louis Rieser, Rabbi Emeritus, Etz Hayim Synagogue in New Hampshire (Boynton
    Beach, FL)
     Rabbi Maralee Gordon, McHenry County Jewish Congregation (Crystal Lake, IL)
     Rabbi Marc Margolius, Rabbi, West End Synagogue and Institute for Jewish Spirituality
    (New York, NY)
     Rabbi Margaret J. Meyer (Cincinnati, OH)
     Rabbi Maurice Harris, Author and Educator (Eugene, OR)
     Rabbi Melody Davis, Temple Israel (Lehighton, PA)
     Rabbi Michael Adam Latz, Senior Rabbi, Shir Tikvah Congregation (Minneapolis, MN)
     Rabbi Miriam Terlinchamp, Temple Sholom (Cincinnati, OH)
     Rabbi Misha Zinkow, Senior Rabbi, Temple Israel (Columbus, OH)
     Rabbi Paula Marcus (Aptos, CA)
     Rabbi Rachel Hartner (Washington, DC)
     Rabbi Rachel Kahn‐Troster, Director of North American Programs, T’ruah: The Rabbinic
    Call for Human Rights (New York, NY)
     Rabbi Sandy E. Sasso, Congregation Beth‐El Zedeck (Indianapolis, IN)
     Rabbi Shawn Zevit, Rabbi, Congregation T’Chiyah (Oak Park, MI)
     Rabbi Shmuly Yanklowitz, Founder & President, Uri L’Tzedek
     Rabbi Sigma Faye Coran, Rockdale Temple (Cincinnati, OH)
     Rabbi Simkha Y Weintraub, LCSW (New York, NY)
     Rabbi Stacy Rigler, Education Director, Keneseth Israel (Elkins Park, PA)
     Rabbi Sue Levi Elwell, Rabbinic Director, Union for Reform Judaism, East Geographic Network (Philadelphia, PA)
     Rabbi Toba Spitzer, Rabbi, Congregation Dorshei Tzedek (West Newtown, MA)

    Now that’s all very well – but there’s one HUGE piece of hypocrisy at work. These signatories oppose the very policy they wish to be imposed on the US to be the same for Israel.

  46. Now it has already been established that jews dominate Hollywood but I’ll post the reminder below:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-stein19-2008dec19,0,4676183.column

    I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe “the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews,” down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood.

    But I don’t care if Americans think we’re running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them.

    The takeover of Hollywood required money, but jews dominate money everywhere so it wasn’t too difficult to buy Hollywood, or anything else for that matter.

    Note that Time magazine is owned by jewish interests.

  47. This is a cover of Time magazine from 1993:

    http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19931118,00.html

    It ties directly back to my post of 12.33pm and it shows the ‘future of America’. I don’t recall seeing Americans asked if this is the future that they want but jews want it for America (but not for themselves).

    So Agit’s first three points are linked nicely in these posts.

  48. I never thought the subject of bread would garner so many comments.
    Ernesto should start his own bread blog.

  49. From the letter sent by jewish organisations in the US to President Obama asking him to let everybody who gets to the US to be allowed citizenship because

    The commandment to ‘welcome the stranger’ is mentioned 36 times throughout the Torah, more than any other commandment

    then one must ask how Israel ‘welomes the stranger’. It is, after all, the jewish state and one would expect it to welcome immigrants in the manner requested by jewish organisations of the government of the United States. But….

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18322416

    Four African migrants have been hurt in a suspected arson attack on their home in Jerusalem, Israeli police say.

    Graffiti found at the scene read: “We want the foreigners out.”

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently described African migrants as “infiltrators” who had come here for economic reasons and who were a problem that had to be “solved”.

    Now reading what is above and comparing it to what jewish organisations have written to President Obama leads me to conclude that the jewish body-politic is populated by hypocrites and liars. So unless Agit can persuade me otherwise, it seems that jews in politics are hypocrites and liars noting especially that a Likud MP and an Israeli MP in Australia are trying to solve Israel’s ‘problem’ with African migrants by deporting all 60,000 of them to Australia. I wonder if Australians will be asked about this?

  50. Bernard,

    I was as surprised as anyone that the mention bread would create such interest. I trust they realised I was talking of the edible kind and not the folding kind! – of course they did!

    Some years back I did start a bakers web site, but it was aimed more at the small commercial artisan baker rather than the enthusiastic ammateur home baker. Other considerations rather put paid to that one!

    However, you have planted the germ of an idea, – I shall give it some thought, perhaps a different target audience? – and for that, – many thanks!

  51. This reader would very much welcome a pithy, informative post on the making of bread and/or the business of making and selling bread, Ernest.

    I know little about it and yet I eat it everyday.

  52. Patty,

    Thank you for the encouragement, – I’ll give it some serious thought, busy as I am the idea is very enticing,,, Thank you..

  53. Perhaps if I can devise a way of creating a website that conveys aroma, I will be home and dry! – there is nothing like the small of freshly baked bread, first thing in the morning to get the juices flowing…

  54. ” I’m going to go through Agit’s little list in his post of 10.00am. The first two are almost inseparable so I’ll deal with them simultaneously.”

    He just loves it don’t he? 🙂
    It’s Der Bunker all over again..

  55. “Downfall”
    was the film I was thinking about. I saw it a few years ago.

    Just imagine the scene.
    Instead of Hitler, being shut in der bunker mit Allan..
    “You VILL believe me, ja?
    Dere IS ein Conspiratzy!!
    Repeat after me,
    “Dere is ein Conz…..

  56. ” Archie or concrete? ”

    Lol!

    Adolf, Allan, Archie or possibly Arsenic…
    Hmmm,

  57. This thread turned into a nice light hearted and enjoyable (albeit pun loaded) discussion on matters related to bread, only spoiled by Allan’s absurd obsession with planting his ‘Jewish conspiracy’ theories everywhere.

  58. On Friday after working hard to rescue a bee colony which had made it’s home in our “au naturel” back garden, (the entrance had been blocked whilst digging over the soil, and buried when I went over it with a roller, one of the little blighters rewarded my act of environmental compassion by stinging me right on the end of the nose!

    Then we are again having awful broadband/phone problems with dropouts right as I am composing a comment,
    Today we have spent 5 hours without broadband, and when it does come back on what do I find?
    The mad SporranBasher…
    Aaaaagh!

  59. During my unsuccessful evasive manouvers, I could have sworn that it buzzed with an angry Aberdonian burrrrrrrr..

    When I was a kid we used to poke bees nests for fun (no television you see..) but here I am years later, a practicing Christian, thinking warm thoughts towards these little evidences of God’s creation. and that’s the thanks I get. He chased me right across the garden!
    I went indoors, inspecting my schnozz and asking my chief fan and follower to look on line (it was working on Friday after the last engineer left) for the best treatment.
    So I recommend a dob of toothpaste if it ever happens to you. Make sure you’ve got the dting out first though.

  60. I look out for Allan’s Jewish interjections, after all, such comments are deleted by a moderator on most other websites.

    It’s a tribute to David Vance’s broad-mindedness that he allows Allan free reign.

  61. Bernard,
    I agree with you, but there have been times when (imo) Allan has sailed very close to the wind. We have tried to get him onto other issues that he has hinted at, but it’s obvious where his main obsession interest lies. In all the time I have blogged here he has not changed his views one iota.

  62. I would never seek to censor Allan’s or anyone else’s views, but sometimes its nice to change the record !

  63. “You only have free speech in this country if you have nothing to say”. Unquote.

  64. Ah good – Agit’s back. Four questions:

    1. Why does Israel get reparations from Germany even though Israel was NOT A STATE in 1945?

    2. My post of 12.33pm links to a letter sent by organised jewry in the US asking President Obama to ‘welcome the stranger’ i.e. legalise 11 million illegal immigrants, yet the conduct of Israel is clearly not welcoming of ‘the stranger’ and that migrants in Israel are jailed and deported. This makes jews in politics look like liars and hypocrites. Could you explain that clear contrast of position?

    3. The effect of all the jew-driven laws allowing mass-immigration of the 3rd-world into the US has the ultimate effect of making the US minority white by 2040 in the same way as is happening in Europe. The intended consequence of this is shown in the jewish-controlled Time magazine over of my post of 12.41pm. This is nothing short of the planned miscegenation of whites – but not jews. Can you explain this apparent policy noting our friend(?) in Sweden who gave the game away:

    Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode, and Jews will be resented because of our leading role.

    Barbara Lerner Spectre, IBA News, 2010

    4. My post at 12.37pm shows that jews dominate Hollywood. Do you disagree with that statement by Joel Stein and the conclusive evidence which he provides in support? If so, why?

  65. In all the time I have blogged here he has not changed his views one iota.

    That is simply untrue. I was a staunch supporter of Israel and jewish causes generally. I even sent pizzas to an IDF unit besieging Gaza but then I found out certain things as my post at 12.03am explains.

    Dear Allan,

    Shalom from Yerushalayim. Thu 15/12/2011 14:13

    Once again thank you on behalf of our wonderful soldiers for your generous support in the past from Scotland. It has been our privilege to send Pizza, Hot Soup, Burgers and other special food to our serving soldiers on behalf of many wonderful people like you.

    Chanukah, the eight day Jewish Festival of Lights, will soon be upon us. You can again treat our beloved soldiers, the modern Maccabees, our brothers, sons and daughters, with a brief welcomed holiday break. Send them sufganiot, traditional Jelly Donuts. And accompany these treats with your personal greetings. Let them know they have supporters all around the world.

    You can participate in our Donut Project via our website at http://www.PizzaIDF.org. On each night of Chanukah we will be sending donuts to soldiers in different parts of the country. Of course you can also send Pizza and Burgers.

    We can send your relatives and friends a certificate indicating that, in lieu of Chanukah presents this year, you have sent a gift in their name to our soldiers.

    We wish you and your family a Happy Chanukah — and once again thank you for your continuing support.

    Hanuka Sameah,

    Menachem Kuchar
    http://www.PizzaIDF.org

    P.S. Please tell your friends about this great way of showing your support of our soldiers.

    Now Agit – there are ertain questions which I have put to you in the hope that you shall answer them.

  66. Some years back I did start a bakers web site

    Unfortunately Ernest eaten bread is quickly forgotten.

    That’s the end of the bread based puns for me. A flash in the pan, (HA!! see what I did there?)

    Thank you Ernest.

  67. All this time, I believed Allan was some kind of engineer…turns out he’s a pizza delivery man… 🙂

  68. Pepperoni, mushrooms, and a heartfelt conviction that the Jews are the cause of all the world’s woes.

    And anchovies.

  69. Bernard – no, it’s genuine though I’m obviously not going to post full address details. I also donated to Leket Israel which is a charity to provide food to Israel’s poor which begs the question as to why does Israel have poor jews on the brink of starvation if it is (supposedly) the land of milk and honey for jews? The conclusion must be that the financial institutions there are as exploitative of their co-religionists as they are of goyim. I’m sure that Agit will have an opinion once he gets round to answering the questions which I put to him above.

  70. ” I wonder what was in the Pizzas ? ;)”
    Really lol!
    Probably salami and foreskins..

  71. Allan
    1)Jews* received reparations from Germany, and I think things changed once Israel became a nation, but I shall look into it. (You don’t begrudge the Jews getting reparations do you Allan?)

    2) ” My post of 12.33pm links to a letter sent by organised jewry in the US asking President Obama to ‘welcome the stranger’ i.e. legalise 11 million illegal immigrants, yet the conduct of Israel is clearly not welcoming of ‘the stranger’ and that migrants in Israel are jailed and deported. This makes jews in politics look like liars and hypocrites. Could you explain that clear contrast of position?”

    If that is true it is reprehensible. Imo America needs more citizens like a hole in the head. Again needs proper kosher web sourcing.

    3) I have never heard of this until your weird self brought it up, but don’t forget I have Jewish in-laws and other sources I can ask about it. The rabid websites you gloat over are highly suspect anyway. In fact that you rely on them so much (as in your reference to that deceased journalist’s book the other day) shows a certain obsessive mindset Allan.

    Oh yes, there are some very poor and hungry people in Israel. There are a large and growing religious group called the Haredi (who despite Paul’s concerns about circumcision have children by the bucketful, and they don’t work either.) There are poor and hungry people in Israel just as there probably are in Aberdeen..
    You have to look into the circumcisions circumstances to find out why.

    * http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/reparations.html

  72. Agit – your response to item 1 would explain why the numbers of holocaust survivors seems to be increasing. Now, if jews as individuals can get compensation from Germany, can palestinians also get compensation from Israel by the same principle – regardless of whether there is a Palestinian state or not?

  73. ” Agit – your response to item 1 would explain why the numbers of holocaust survivors seems to be increasing. ”
    Allan,
    you obviously don’t read anything that runs contrary to your “Ve must obey ze orders!” mentality..
    Look and actually read it, Droopy Drawers;

    “On Sept. 20, 1945, three months after the end of World War II, Chaim Weizmann, on behalf of the Jewish Agency, submitted to the governments of the US, USSR, UK, and France, a memorandum demanding reparations, restitution, and indemnification due to the Jewish people from Germany for its involvement in the Holocaust. He appealed to the Allied Powers to include this claim in their own negotiations for reparations with Germany, in view of the “mass murder, the human suffering, the annihilation of spiritual, intellectual, and creative forces, which are without parallel in the history of mankind.”

    Did you see the italicised bits?
    Did you understand the meaning?
    This wasn’t one of your “Gorbals punchups” under discussion here. It was an attempt to wipe out a whole race of people.

    To help you, let’s pretend that this isn’t Chaim Weitzmann speaking; it’s your old mate Haj Amin el Husseini, aka the Palestinian card carrying member of the Nazi Party, who was called the Fuehrer of Palestine by kindly ‘Uncle Adolf’; and who wanted to build Nazi style extermination camps in the area known as PALESTINE.
    Did you read and understand that Allan?
    See, I have the impression that apart from this obsessive and malignant mania of yours, you are an educated and intelligent man who holds down a reasonably responsible and important job.
    I could take you to Israel tomorrow and introduce you to the same kinds of people you might meet in Aberdeen or Scotland or the UK. Nice people and not so nice people. (They have criminals in Israel Allan..)
    I think in spite of your prejudices you might find yourself actually liking and professionally relating to some of these people. I think it might actually frighten you, because these people are no longer the subservient, obedient people who allowed themselves to be herded onto trains or ghettos and forced to kill or scavenge for hair, gold or render their fellow man into fat..
    They will not only argue and discuss with you, they will fight back.

  74. Agit – Putting aside your over-wrought emotions for a moment but just how many holocaust survivors are there? According to figures of the Office of the Israeli Prime Minister, there were 830,000 – 960,000 alive in 1997 which, based on normal mortality rates points to 3.5 – 4.5 million alive in 1945:

    However, by 2004, the number of survivors had risen to 1,092,000 which, by normal mortality rates takes the number of survivors up to the magic 6 million:

    An Israeli government report that claims to be the first of its kind has set material damage to the Jewish people during the Holocaust at some $240 billion to $330 billion.

    At the beginning of 2004, 1,092,000 Holocaust survivors were still living worldwide, about half of them in Israel. About 10 percent of survivors die each year, the report said.

    The source of the figures in both instances will meet with your approval, both being of the Israeli government. For some reason, the number of holocaust survivors increased between 1997 and 2004 so therefore the number of survivors in 1945 must have increased dramatically from 3.5 – 4.5 million to 6 million based on normal mortality rates. If the mortality rates are considered higher owing to the weakened condition of the survivors in 1945, then the number of survivors in 1945 goes through the roof.

    Back to palestinians – should they receive compensation from Israel for their losses as individuals and people in the manner that Israel (on behalf of jews) gets reparations from Germany?

  75. ” Agit – Putting aside your over-wrought emotions for a moment but just how many holocaust survivors are there? ”

    You really trying to tell me that the same principle of getting something for nothing, or telling your friends that the cashpoint down the road is paying out double doesn’t exist amongst non Jews??
    You must be barking Allan!
    You mean people all over the world are fine and upstanding citizens and never take advantage of ANYTHING!
    And I say that without accepting the implication your fevered brain is suggesting.
    But even if it were true, so what?

    And No! Let’s NOT get back to the Palestinians.
    They could have had their own State on at least three occasions.
    They refused.
    They would rather teach their little kids to hate Jews, and grow up not to want an education but to be Martyrs for the Cause..
    The Jews WERE offered their own State and they took it.
    Why Allan?
    Wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that they had come to realise that the only place they could be proud to be Jewish was in their own State, would it?

  76. The jews were offered their own state by whom? Whose land was it to give? But what’s done is done and now that they have their own state, would it be ‘nazi’ of me to suggest that zionist jews actually move there? There are plenty of them here at the upper echelons of government whose role is simply to ensure that Europe and the US put the interests of Israel before the host country as any 5th column would do. Jews First – the rest don’t matter.

    http://www.bh.org.il/Data/Uploads/Peoplehood%20Papers%201-%20November%202007.pdf

    We need a Jewish community in Europe. Israel needs a Jewish community in Europe. Israel cannot exist, both economically and politically, without Europe. They are necessary advocates for Jewish issues.

    An example is the fact is that zionist jews in Germany betrayed Germany to defeat in WW1 in exchange for embroiling America and getting Britain to promise land which did not belong to the UK to a people who had no ties with the middle east. On the other hand, assimilated jews in Germany did not betray their country.

  77. Phantom – there it is before your eyes:

    Israel needs a Jewish community in Europe.

    They are necessary advocates for Jewish issues.

    So this jewish community in Europe: to whom does its loyalty lie? I would say from the above that it is most clearly with Israel therefore removing them to Israel which has their loyalty is no cruelty at all but a necessary measure for independence (from zionism) and security because, as I have shown above, jewish organisations advocate mass immigration into the host country from the 3rd-world BUT NOT INTO ISRAEL.

  78. ” Israel needs a Jewish community in Europe.

    They are necessary advocates for Jewish issues. ”
    My dear brother in law is an English Jew. All his siblings are living in Israel, his sister’s husband (also an English Jew) served during WW2 as an RAF navigator before emigrating to Israel in the early fifties and becoming a very successful businessman on behalf of his (socialist) kibbutz.
    My brother in law was born here. He retains a love for his people and Israel but he is also English and chooses to remain here. Plus he knows that his Goy/Christian brother in law will stick up for him come what may!

  79. Agit – your brother-in-law is born in England and should therefore be English, yet his people are jews and Israeli? At the very least, there is divided loyalty: at worst, a 5th-column of the kind which destroyed Germany from within in WW1 and is now destroying the cohesion of western countries by facilitating mass immigration from the 3rd-world. Germans never forgot the perfidy of many jews in Germany as of 1917 when jews also ‘persuaded’ the US to enter the war so as to get hold of Palestine. It certainly eased Hitler’s passage to power.

  80. Allan,
    Why do you find that so strange?
    Jews have been living all around the world since the earliest times. We know that from the Old and New Testaments.
    Then you have the Irish, the Scots and Welsh. Divided loyalties?
    Irish (stationary) Travellers, Tinkers, Romanies etc.
    Divided loyalties?
    5th Columnists??

    ” Germans never forgot the perfidy of many jews in Germany as of 1917..”
    Jews fought bravely for Russia. Jews fought bravely for Germany. Jews had all kinds of businesses and professions within many European nations.
    Taken from them on the grounds that they were “Jews”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

  81. Agit – how many survivors of the holocaust were there in 1945 given that Israeli government figures show 1,092,000 alive in 2004?

    One can go round in circles with me producing source materials and you producing zionist propaganda that one can forget the key question.

    This is from The Sentinel of 12th October, 1939. The second paragraph is particularly interesting:

    http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/7576f06807476d462bc20af97dc37ad3.jpg

  82. ” “Six million Jews died in the Holocaust.”? Just where did that figure come from? And what does it mean?

    2. The earliest attempts to put a number on the dimensions of the Holocaust came from simple before-and-after demographic comparisons. Take the number of Jews in Europe before WWII, subtract the number found there after the war, add back those who managed to escape, and round it to the nearest million.

    Of course, all these numbers are estimates. Even with the vigorous effort by the United States to count every single person once every ten years, and even with all our modern-day technology, it is widely recognized that the census misses over 1% of the total population – and that it misses minorities by an even higher percentage. In many areas of Europe at that time, census taking was not nearly as comprehensive as it is in the United States. Other writers, using different estimates, have proposed both lower and higher figures. Some go as high as seven million. At the other end of the scale, Gerald Reitlinger arrived at a figure of between 4.2 and 4.5 million.”

    “Six million Jews died in the Holocaust.”? Just where did that figure come from? And what does it mean?

    2. The earliest attempts to put a number on the dimensions of the Holocaust came from simple before-and-after demographic comparisons. Take the number of Jews in Europe before WWII, subtract the number found there after the war, add back those who managed to escape, and round it to the nearest million.

    Of course, all these numbers are estimates. Even with the vigorous effort by the United States to count every single person once every ten years, and even with all our modern-day technology, it is widely recognized that the census misses over 1% of the total population – and that it misses minorities by an even higher percentage. In many areas of Europe at that time, census taking was not nearly as comprehensive as it is in the United States. Other writers, using different estimates, have proposed both lower and higher figures. Some go as high as seven million. At the other end of the scale, Gerald Reitlinger arrived at a figure of between 4.2 and 4.5 million.

    Look at this one.
    http://www.holocaust-history.org/quick-facts/six-million.shtml
    Either you accept its authenticity or you say it was staged by specially starved film extras..
    Imagine that happening in Aberdeen…

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