186 1 min 8 yrs

 

Russia lets everyone down, again! I dunno’, they get thirty of the stupid, self-publicising clowns in one place; and then they just let them go.

I heard the bit about the ‘Concentration Camp Aura’ on the Beeb this a.m. It is indeed an insult to the shades of the Holocaust victims who died in their millions to have their captivity compared to the prisons where these thirty foolish idiots were confined.

The Russians would have received greater applause if they had shipped all the Greenpeace protesters off to some Siberian gulag, and then set them free outside the camp gates.

 

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186 thoughts on “A real opportunity lost!

  1. In the annals of East/West relations, this Greenpeace ‘spat’ is about as insignificant as it gets.

    Putin’s magnanimous gesture is done from a position of political & economic strength, and he knows it.
    Unlike Europe, he knows where he is taking Russia and has the backing from his people too.

    2013 has been Putin’s year, and he deserves it.

  2. I agree. Ran rings round the US and the UK over Syria. Ditto Iran. As much as I dislike the old KGB thug, I cannot help but compare him the the wet lettice in number 10, and think the Russians seem to have a true patriot looking after the shop.

  3. ….a true patriot yes, and a leader that has vowed to uphold Russia’s ancient Christian roots.
    The first time the country has had a Christian president in 70 years.

    I don’t know what sort of ‘function’ he performed as a member of the KGB, but one thing is for sure, it has taken his kind of ruthlessness to break the stranglehold the Jewish mafia has had on Russia’s key industries.

  4. Wow! Brit right wingers praising a former (:-) ) KGB boss. Does it get more surreal? A week surely is a long time in politics.

    I heard the bit about the ‘Concentration Camp Aura’ on the Beeb this a.m. It is indeed an insult to the shades of the Holocaust victims who died in their millions to have their captivity compared to the prisons where these thirty foolish idiots were confined

    Of for God’s sake don’t be so melodramtic man. The report clearly states the physical asthetics to be comparable to a concentration camp, (maybe he was speaking about the ones used in the Boer War?), it states in the report that they were treated quite well.

  5. Wow! Brit right wingers praising a former (:-) ) KGB boss. Does it get more surreal?

    We’re not praising his history or him as a person, but we (or at least I) am rcognising that by contrast with Europe’s finest, he has indeed run rings around them, he has sent out a clear message of what he (currently) stands for, and I think many people identify with his message.
    Personally I wouldn’t trust him with my babushka…

  6. I still await an answer as to which ” Jewish mafia ” controlled which Russian key industries before Putin came in.

  7. I still await an answer as to which ” Jewish mafia ” controlled which Russian key industries before Putin came in.

    An answer?
    You want an answer?
    What for?
    There are only a few here who bother with giving answers or debating..

  8. Phantom

    The nine Jewish oligarchs that held such sway in Russia after the fall of the old USSR were Mikhail Friedman, Vladimir Gusinsky, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Alexander Smolensky, Vagit Alekperov, Vladimir Potanin, Rem Vyakhirev. And most recently and famously, Boris Berezovsky…….and that other guy who Peter Mandelson visits on his gigantic yacht occasionally.
    His name escapes me.

  9. I still await an answer as to which ” Jewish mafia ” controlled which Russian key industries before Putin came in.

    Boris Berezovsky, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Roman Abramovich – these and many of the key men around Boris Yeltsin and his daughter (which is how they became extremely wealthy) are Jewish. Yes, an inordinately high percentage of them are Jewish. No, I don’t say anything beyond this basic fact.

    They became rich, in the main, because they worked their way right next to the centre of power in Russia after 1990 and persuaded Yeltsin (via his daughter) to sell them the Soviet industries at rock-bottom prices.

    It was the grandest larceny until the Wall St putsch of 2008.

  10. The Jews (excepting my brother in law) are often very good at business.

    After all, if you had been forced on pain of death to loan money and supply goods, wouldn’t YOU do your best to be good at it?

  11. Agit8ed –

    These Russians didn’t do business. They persuaded a drunken Yelstin to yield to them all the communised industries at rock-bottom prices. This is how they became billionaires in a very short space of time.

    It does serve to remind that in free markets we have to work hard, serving the needs of our fellow man, to make money, while with government the massive bucks come from the massive corruption which intense power centres naturally foster.

  12. Blimey, that’s a tall order Phantom.
    (BTW, it was Roman Abramovich, the 5th richest man in Russia, who ‘courted’ Mandelson on his super-yacht, or was it the other way round?)

    I can’t answer your request Phantom; it’s probably a state secret anyway, but suffice to say that Oleg Deripaska, who owns the biggest aluminium plant in the world, is a close friend & adviser to the Rothschild banking family.

    That may cover some of the bases for you.

  13. These Russians didn’t do business. They persuaded a drunken Yelstin to yield to them all the communised industries at rock-bottom prices. This is how they became billionaires in a very short space of time.

    Not sure it was a Jewish stranglehold on Russian/Soviet state industries, but it is a fact that many of the leading intellectuals involved in the Bolshevik party were Jews and were kicked out or sidelined,

    http://www.mosaisk.com/revolution/Winston-Churchill-Zionism-Versus-Bolshevism.php

    so maybe that’s how they took their materialistic revenge….

  14. Yeltsin was completely unqualified to lead Russia.

    All these oligarchs should have had their wealth confiscated, not just those who didn’t recognize Putin’s authority

  15. I’m glad you’ve got the message now Phantom.
    My initial comment about Russian Jewish oligarchs was just a statement of fact.
    Putin is real wary of powerful atheistic Jews and their hostility towards what he considers a traditionally Christian culture.

  16. Bugger !

    What I was about to say, before my PC decided to show its rebellious steak and desire for free will (HAL lives !), was:

    WARNING :

    This video is long but interesting.

  17. That the oligarchs who stole Russia’s national assets are jewish is beyond debate – it is fact. Wheteher these jews plotted is difficult to confirm – probably a cock-up which allowed an entire countries assets to to sequestrated by one clique, the same cock-up which happens everywhere else. Putin is now getting the assest back, one way or another. However, as one sees by this example, the oligarchs are simply front men for somebody else and the refinery industry was always, and is still, owned by those who own the oil industry elsewhere, Rocke-something.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/nov/2/20031102-111400-3720r/

    LONDON (Agence France-Presse) — Control of Mikhail Khodorkovsky’s shares in the Russian oil giant Yukos have passed to renowned banker Jacob Rothschild, under a deal they concluded prior to Mr. Khodorkovsky’s arrest, the Sunday Times reported.

    Voting rights to the shares passed to Mr. Rothschild, 67, under a “previously unknown arrangement” designed to take effect in the event that Mr. Khodorkovsky could no longer “act as a beneficiary” of the shares, it said.

    A “previously unknown arrangement” – with a Rothschild!! Isn’t life just one big cock-up?

  18. Mark B –

    Thanks for that. I like Peter Hitchens. He’s a genuine conservative, intellectually honest, brave and always thought-provoking. He’s also a former foreign correspondent in Moscow so he knows more about Russia than many of us.

    I’m about to booze so I’ll save it for later.

  19. Despicable post which notably fails to mention the reason these people risked imprisonment in Rusia.

    And some despicable comments as well. The anti-semites never miss an opportunity.

    Putin is a despotic, corrupt, murdering thug, but stupid Rightworlders now want to see him as a conservative hero. Pathetic. Cameron may be a “wet lettuce” but investigative journalists don’t get murdered in Britain.

  20. Control of Mikhail Khodorkovsky’s shares in the Russian oil giant Yukos have passed to renowned banker Jacob Rothschild, under a deal they concluded prior to Mr. Khodorkovsky’s arrest, the Sunday Times reported.

    HA HA HA

    Truly, some things are beyond satire, some things you simply cannot make up.

  21. The anti-semites never miss an opportunity

    But Peter, why are there so many opportunities? Do you dispute the factual accuracy of any of the ‘anti-semitic’ comments?

  22. Most of the oligarchs were Jewish- 6 of the first big 7- which provides fodder for antisemites, which Putin exploits. The book “World on Fire” by Amy Chua is a good place to start foirunderstanding market dominant minorities like Russian Jews or South East Asian Chinese and the resentment they receive.

  23. Well said, Ross.

    Being part of a minority is a good thing, and I often wonder why people complain about minorities being treated as outsiders. In fact, a certain degree of tension, or otherness, within a society (without it degenerating into the kind of stuff we saw in Northern Ireland) is also generally a productive force.
    The number of British Irish, Protestants in S. Ireland, Jews all over the world etc. who excelled in so many fields certainly seems to support the notion.
    Of course, sometimes it doesn’t work so well, and it’s worthwhile investigating the factors at play. Certainly beats indulgence in ignorant anti-semitism or racism of the kind we see here.

    I don’t know if the book Ross recommends deals with these things, but it’s probably worth a read.

  24. What I was about to say, before my PC decided to show its rebellious steak

    There’s nothing to beat a rebellious steak. Beats a rump steak hands down.

  25. You simply have to be obsessive/fanatical/warped even to believe that all the problems of the world can be laid at the feet of a people who were kicked out of their national home 2000 years ago, dispossessed of any ability to organise themselves into militias or self defence groups, constantly persecuted and pogrommed, baited and hated, and eradicated.
    THEN come up with a successful plan to take over and manipulate and subvert the world.
    He’s telling people here there are no black Jews.
    I send him pictures including Yemeni Jews, Moroccan Jews, Indian Jews and Ethiopian Jews all living in Israel and examples of which I have seen and worked with personally.
    I provide links to Jewish/Israeli websites.
    He’s not interested.
    He prefers to hate.
    But I suppose his redeeming quality is that he does it all so politely…

  26. While I’m recovering from alcoholic poisoning, I will put my hand up and say I’ve never said or written anything nice about the Welsh.
    I’ve found them to be petty, small-minded and deceitful, but whether that qualifies me as an anti-Welsh racist, or just having a personal opinion about them is open to debate.

  27. Yes, he probably owns a respectable suit too.

    The local version of David Duke, freshly scrubbed and just asking questions. Just trying to help.

  28. but whether that qualifies me as an anti-Welsh racist, or just having a personal opinion about them is open to debate.

    Probably qualifies you as an anti welsh racist with alcoholic tendencies..

  29. Most of the oligarchs were Jewish- 6 of the first big 7- which provides fodder for antisemites

    No it doesn’t. Judeo-realists accept that 6 out of 7 oligarchs in Russia being jews is pure cohencidence of the type in the US where over 90% of media is owned by zionsts, and I wonder who controls the Fed?

    Peter – No, I don’t hate jews (‘anti-semite’ is false as most jews are not semites), but the overwhelming participation of jews in the undermining of white societies cannot be ignored. Jews are white which is how they manage to infiltrate white institutions and pervert them from within. What the upper jews have is the genes for destroying the host. This is present in nature so there is no reason why humanity shouldn’t have a strain which seeks to destroy the host population, and that is organised jewry. Many ‘jews’ do not have these genes so they are effectively un-jews: others go so far as to oppose the destructive mission of jewry even if they don’t necessarily ‘name the jew’. Ex-jews who ‘name the jew’ include Gilad Atzmon, Nathaniel Kapner, Paul Eisen, Prof. Roger Domergue, David Cole et al and an example of a ‘jew’ who didn’t ‘name the jew’ is the late Aaron Russo – but if Russo achieved his aims, these being ending the Fed and exposure of the real perps of 9/11, then the jewish mission of our destruction would have been terminated anyway – by an ex-jew at the head. Here is an example. Ex-jew Gilad Atzmon reviews a book by a judeo-supremacist which lays bare the ideology which the goyim must not know of:

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/israelpalestine-and-the-queer-international-a-book-review-by.html

    In the very beginning of the book, Schulman provides us with an amazing confession most Jews would prefer to shove far under the carpet.

    “We were raised with two Yiddish concepts about Christians: kopf and punim. Yiddishe kopf and Goyishe kopf. To say that someone had a Yiddishe kopf (A Jewish mind) was to say admiringly that he was a genius, that he was analytical and conceptual and an original thinker. To say that someone had a goyishe kopf was to say that he was dull-witted, conformist and slow” (p. 2).

    One must admit that only rarely do Jews volunteer such intimate information that confirms the depth of racism and supremacy embedded within Jewish culture.

    A few pages later Schulman is honest enough to admit that she also is immersed in some deep biological determinist thinking.

    “Of course, like many Jews, I do think of myself in biological terms, despite how convenient that is for anti-Semitism. There is after all, a genetic component, since Jewish Identity—from the Jewish point of view is biologically essentialist, dependent on having a Jewish mother” (p. 10).

    It goes without saying that evolutionary psychologist Prof. Kevin MacDonald and Right Wing author David Duke are hounded relentlessly by the ADL and the progressive Jewish network for basically agreeing with Schulman.

    Bear in mind that denying the official holocaust narrative is not the same as wishing that it had happened anyway: that would be ‘jew-hatred’.

  30. Peter –

    “Would you confirm or deny that you are an anti-semite? Just for the record.”

    Only an idiot would think that All@Aberdeen is an anti-semite.

    Agit8ed –

    “I send him pictures including Yemeni Jews, Moroccan Jews, Indian Jews and Ethiopian Jews all living in Israel”

    The departure lounge of Ben Gurion Airport just prior to their expulsion is harldy a residence.

    Phantom –

    “The local version of David Duke, freshly scrubbed and just asking questions. Just trying to help.”

    And like David Duke, he hasn’t harmed anyone. In contrast, the respectable politicians you admire, like and vote for have murdered many thousands around the world. I’m sorry, but David Duke and Allan@Aberdeen are incomparably better people than anyone in DC.

  31. No, I don’t hate jews (‘anti-semite’ is false as most jews are not semites), but the overwhelming participation of jews in the undermining of white societies cannot be ignored. Jews are white which is how they manage to infiltrate white institutions and pervert them from within. What the upper jews have is the genes for destroying the host.

    Could have come from Himmler.

  32. // a people who were kicked out of their national home 2000 years ago, ..constantly persecuted and pogrommed,//

    Agit8ed, the Jews weren’t kicked out of any national home 2000 years ago, that’s a myth. They also weren’t constantly persecuted and pogrommed; that’s silly. Jews were in Europe for almost 2000 years; although they were discriminated against, they generally had more freedom and prosperity than the non-Jewish population, most of whom for the 2 millennia were little better than slaves. There was also occasional real persecution, but it was generally local and short-lived. The vast majority of Jews in Europe probably never encountered any violent persecution at all.

    Besides, you are also very much in the business of hate, and are one of the last people here who should be lecturing Allan about tolerance. What you’ve said about Muslims and Islam on this site is no better than what he says about Jews and Judaism.

  33. As Peter pointed out on another thread about another topic, debating those who ignore facts and history here on ATW such as Allan, Harri or Pete is like debating creationists. After a while you are just banging your head against a wall.

  34. The first time the country has had a Christian president in 70 years

    Eh Bernard? We’re told by some here that one of the central doctines of Communism is that there is no God?

  35. Peter, on December 27th, 2013 at 10:23 PM Said:
    Allan

    Would you confirm or deny that you are an anti-semite? Just for the record.

    Agit8ed, on December 27th, 2013 at 10:35 PM Said began his drooling a mere 12 minutes after Peter put his question.

    Now Agit, IF “a people who were kicked out of their national home 2000 years ago” have now got it back, why don’t they get out of civilised western countries and go and live amongst their own?

    Here’s a photograph but first, a question. You do know that the single Ethiopian jew in the Knesset who offered to donate her blood was told that it would not be used (she’s black, btw). Now you do know that, don’t you?

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/only-10-migrants-attempt-to-enter-israel-in-january/

    Influx of asylum-seekers halted, interior minister says, but mission not complete while thousands still reside in the country

    I read from Israeli sources that 55,000 African immigrants are to be deported to Uganda. Now, I don’t disagree with Israel’s policy of putting themselves first in what is defined as their country, but why do jews in other countries support mass immigration into those countries whilst exempting Israel from ‘enrichment’?

  36. No it doesn’t. Judeo-realists accept that 6 out of 7 oligarchs in Russia being jews is pure cohencidence of the type in the US where over 90% of media is owned by zionsts, and I wonder who controls the Fed?

    No one said it was a coincidence (or Cohen-incidence as you so wittily say). It is no more a coincidence than the fact that the wine industry in both the USA and Argentina is dominated by people of Italian descent or that a comfortable majority of newsagents in the UK are owned by the Asian community etc.

  37. From Allan@Aberdeen’s link (and with apologies to Mrs Mahons, who seems to have another attack of the vapours):

    Israel is cracking down on African migrants sneaking into the country looking for work or refuge from dire conditions in their home countries. There are no official numbers, but officials estimate that tens of thousands of people have flowed in from Sudan, South Sudan, Eritrea and other African countries in the last several years.

    I agree with the yids: keep out and kick out the Africans. If you disagree then you’re an anti-semite – aren’t you?

  38. I agree with the yids: keep out and kick out the Africans. If you disagree then you’re an anti-semite – aren’t you?

    Or Himmler … apparently 😉

  39. Judeo-realists accept that 6 out of 7 oligarchs in Russia being jews is pure cohencidence of the type in the US where over 90% of media is owned by zionsts, and I wonder who controls the Fed?

    It is no more a coincidence than the fact that the wine industry in both the USA and Argentina is dominated by people of Italian descent or that a comfortable majority of newsagents in the UK are owned by the Asian community etc.

    Indeed Ross – orgainsed jewry taking control of money and media and perverting both to their own benefit is perfectly natural. It’s in the genes: it’s what they do.

  40. That’s it, Bernard – miscegenation of whites (average IQ – 100) with blacks (average IQ – 70) eliminates whites and produces a hybrid of stupid mulattos to be dominated by those smart enough not to participate in the ‘enrichment’ process. I wonder who that would be?

  41. Indeed Ross – orgainsed jewry taking control of money and media and perverting both to their own benefit is perfectly natural. It’s in the genes: it’s what they do.

    So yet again you twist in the wind and fail to answer rebuttals of your ridiculous reasoning.

  42. Ross – organised jewry owns US and British media and controls the banking sector. Do you dispute these assertions? if so, say so and I’ll provide evidence to the contrary.

  43. Israel became a nation in about 1440 BC (at Mount Sinai), two thousand years before the rise of Islam. They arrived in this land forty years later in about 1400 BC. We will skip the next fifteen hundred years or so and rejoin them in about 70 AD when the Romans took over the whole land, flattened Jerusalem, burnt down the Temple and killed and exiled a large part of the Jewish population of the area.

    At that time, however, the Romans did not expel all the Jews and in 139 AD, the descendants of those who remained, under the command of Bar Kokhba, again rebelled against Rome. The Roman army came in again and this time they killed many thousands of Jews, flattened Jerusalem again and built a new Roman city on the ruins, calling it Aelia Capitolina. They then expelled all the Jews, who had survived the slaughter….
    http://www.peaceforourtime.org.uk/page61.html

    So although there were communities of Jews all over the known world, their homeland, their capital city centred as it was around their temple was destroyed, razed to the ground and rebuilt as Aelia Capitolina.
    The Jews lost their homeland/kingdom/ autonomy whatever you want to call it.
    They did not disappear from the land, but they lost their sovereignty as a people.

    As regards persecution or inclusion in Europe..

    AD391
    The Edict of Theodosius declared that Christianity was to be the only legal religion in the Roman Empire.
    589
    The Third Council of Toledo (in Spain) ordered that children born of marriage between Jews and Christians be
    baptized by force. A policy of forced conversion of all Jews was initiated. Thousands of Jews fl ed. Thousands of
    other Jews converted.
    613
    Very serious persecution began in Spain. Jews were given the options of either leaving Spain or converting to
    Christianity. Jewish children over seven years of age were taken from their parents and given a Christian educa-
    tion.
    722
    In Constantinople, Jews were forced to convert to Christianity.
    855
    Jews exiled from Italy.
    1096
    The First Crusade was launched. Although the prime goal of
    the Crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims,
    Jews were a second target. In Germany, in the cities along
    the Rhine River alone, 12,000 Jews were killed. This perse-
    cution and slaughter continued for eight additional Crusades
    until the year 1272.
    1121
    Jews driven out of Flanders (now part of Belgium). They
    were neither to return nor to be tolerated until they repented
    of the guilt of killing Jesus Christ.
    1130
    The Jews of London had to pay compensation of one million marks for allegedly killing a sick man.
    1146
    Renewed persecution of the Jews in Germany at the beginning of the Second Crusade. The French monk Rudolf
    called for the destruction of the Jews as an introduction to the Second Crusade.
    1181
    French King Philip banished the Jews from his domain. They were permitted to sell all movable possessions,
    but the permanent possessions, such as land and houses, reverted to the king.
    1189
    Jews were persecuted in England. The Crown claimed all Jewish possessions. Many homes belonging to Jewish
    families were burned.
    1215
    At the IV Lateran Church Council, canon laws were passed requiring that “Jews and Muslims shall wear a spe-
    cial dress.” Later, it was decreed that they also had to wear an oval badge. This was to enable them to be easily
    distinguished from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries.

    Just a section from the history of the Jews in Christian Europe. You can read more here..
    http://www.jewishvoice.org/assets/pdfs/jewish-persecution-in-history.pdf

    Finally,

    Besides, you are also very much in the business of hate, and are one of the last people here who should be lecturing Allan about tolerance. What you’ve said about Muslims and Islam on this site is no better than what he says about Jews and Judaism.

    I think you will find that my objections to Islam have always been about
    extremism
    Intimidation re free speech.
    Changing my nation into an Islamic state or forcing concessions onto us which are not a part of our culture.
    Honour killings
    FGM
    Attitudes to homosexuals
    Using this country as a base from which to participate in Muslim conflicts overseas
    Murdering British people in the name of Allah

    Now if you think my being against those things can be construed as hate and an absence of tolerance, you are a sensitive little flower..

  44. Changing my nation into an Islamic state or forcing concessions onto us which are not a part of our culture.
    Honour killings
    FGM
    Attitudes to homosexuals
    Using this country as a base from which to participate in Muslim conflicts overseas
    Murdering British people in the name of Allah

    All very laudable, Agit, but once again you choose to ignore the fundamental question: who let islam into the UK and every other country in Europe?

    “Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode, and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. ”

    —Barbara Lerner Spectre, IBA-News, 2010

    IBA? What is the IBA? Agit – you know that one.

    And I’m sure that you’ll be mentioning the ‘pogroms’ in Russia – lies and fabrications:

    http://pauleisen.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/myth-and-russian-pogroms-part-2.html

    As increasingly lurid atrocity tales again captured the attention of the Gentile public, the British Government found itself under pressure to intervene. The British Government, however, adopted a more cautious approach and undertook its own independent investigations into events in the Russian Empire. Its findings, published as a “Blue Book,” “presented an account of events at great variance with that offered by The Times.”[34] The most notable aspect of the independent inquiry is the outright denial of mass rape. In January 1882, Consul-General Stanley objected to all of the details contained within reports published by The Times, mentioning in particular the unfounded “accounts of the violation of women.”[35] He further stated that his own investigations revealed that there had been no incidences of rape during the Berezovka pogrom, that violence was rare, and that much of the disturbance was restricted to property damage. In relation to property damage in Odessa, Stanley estimated it to be around 20,000 rubles, and rejected outright the Jewish claim that damage amounted to over one million rubles.

    Vice-Consul Law, another independent investigator, reported that he had visited Kiev and Odessa, and could only conclude that “I should be disinclined to believe in any stories of women having been outraged in those towns.”[36] Another investigator, Colonel Francis Maude, visited Warsaw and said that he could “not attach any importance” to atrocity reports emanating from that city.[37] At Elizavetgrad, instead of whole streets being razed to the ground, it was discovered that a small hut had lost its roof. It was further discovered that very few Jews, if any, had been intentionally killed, though some died of injuries received in the riots. These were mainly the result of conflicts between groups of Jews who defended their taverns and rioters seeking alcohol. The small number of Jews who had been intentionally killed had fallen victim to unstable individuals who had been drunk on Jewish liquor — accusations of murderous intent among the masses were simply unfounded and unsubstantiated by the evidence.

    Btw Agit – you haven’t yet responded to my question of December 27th, 2013 at 11:14 PM:

    You do know that the single Ethiopian jew in the Knesset who offered to donate her blood was told that it would not be used (she’s black, btw). Now you do know that, don’t you?

  45. Agit – I found this interesting article on the site of that ‘self-hating jew’ linked at 11.35am. What do you think of it?

    http://pauleisen.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-artist-and-house-painter.html

    All politically correct Parties in Austria were in praise of the “unique artwork” of Hermann Nitsch. This genius is sponsored with millions of Euros by the Austrian government in order to secure the on-going production of his works. The Austrian government and the media believe that Nitsch can uplift one’s spirit by his “touching creations” – naked girls, resting in the bloody guts of butchered sows. On the other hand an individual will go to prison for up to 15 years in Austria if he possesses and shows or exhibits a piece of an Adolf Hitler painting.

    This is an example of our democratic right of freedom of artistic expression and ideas. We are thankful that we can enjoy the outstanding works of Nitsch and are spared the horrors of Adolf Hitler’s ugly scribbles. Thank God, democracy selects what we are allowed to see and what we are allowed to read and say.

  46. Btw Agit – you haven’t yet responded to my question of December 27th, 2013 at 11:14 PM:

    Been busy droolin’ and a dribblin’ Allan.
    Sorry.
    Read this.
    http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Magen-David-Adom-donation-stand-thrown-out-of-Knesset-for-discouraging-Ethiopian-MK-from-giving-blood-334689

    Put’s a slightly different slant on it doesn’t it?
    Do you know for example that here in the UK when I worked with abused children in
    care
    (don’t worry I won’t give your identity away)
    we weren’t allowed to know which children were carrying that particular virus, so when you got bit -which could be quite often- you were playing a form of Aberdonian Roulette..

    You can understand why that policy exists, but you forgot to mention this lady had done her Israeli national service and had risen to be a member of the Knesset.
    Not bad eh? Also I met Ethiopian Jewish young men doing their national service walking around with their rifles on patrol.
    The difference is that the Israelis have that overriding principle that if you can show or give reasonable grounds for believing their Jewish heritage, you’re in!
    Not bad eh?

    14,325 Ethiopian Jews came home to Israel,

    to be greeted by thousands of Israelis who gathered at temporary absorption centers, hotels and hostels to welcome their brethren.
    http://www.bluestarpr.com/ethiopian-jews-documentary.html?gclid=CLnyxtrt0rsCFfMPtAodGV4AIQ

    Now I’m not saying that everything’s hunky dory. There were always tensions between the Israelis from Europe (Ashkenazim) and the Arab/Eastern nations (Sepharidim), but as they intermarry those differences are being ameliorated.

    Comments Allan?
    Any comments at all on the good stuff?

    Or will you do your usual thing of ignoring stuff that undermines your conspiracy theories?

    Tip of the Day:
    If you were more willing to acknowledge that in fact the reality is not quite what your websites tell you it should be, and that the Jews/Israelis do do some good things in the world, people might be more willing to dialogue with you.

  47. ps
    Speaking as Private Godfrey I meant “a drooling and a dribbling” in its most universal sense.
    (wish I’d never been circumcised, but the Nohel did tell me that it might affect my continence it would act as an effective method of birth control. So he got one right.)

  48. Do you know for example that here in the UK when I worked with abused children in
    care
    (don’t worry I won’t give your identity away)

    Disgraceful accusation

    Smuch spite, so much hatred, goes with the religion i suppose.

  49. //As regards persecution or inclusion in Europe..

    AD391
    The Edict of Theodosius declared that Christianity “”

    etc etc.

    For a moment, Agit8ed, I thought you were going to try to show that you’re different from Allan.

  50. Do you know for example that here in the UK when I worked with abused children in
    care
    (don’t worry I won’t give your identity away)

    This has to be the worst comment about any poster that I hace personaly ever read on ATW.

    Agit, you should be bloody well ashamed of yourself man.

    And you accused someone else on another post of a comment being ‘Below the belt’

    You are a disgrace.

  51. Whoo -hoooo!!

    Such righteous indignation. And what happened to the comedian Harri? Suddenly something shocks you? The guy who thinks anything up for ridicule suddenly becomes a model of probity!

    How do you two know what I meant by that remark?

    There’s two possible meanings, and it ain’t the one you two upright citizens have picked on.

    I started the comment jokey and I kept it jokey because that’s how I deal with Allan.
    Had I meant any more than that, more would have been said. As it is I turned it back on myself as Private Godfrey..

    Next Case!

  52. Agit – this is the reality for Ethiopian ‘jews’:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel

    Thousands of Ethiopian women are said to be receiving shots of Depo-Provera every three months in Israeli clinics. The contraceptive stops menstruation and has been linked to fertility problems and osteoporosis.

    The phenomenon was uncovered when social workers noticed the birth rate among Ethiopian immigrants halving in a decade. An Israeli documentary investigating the scandal was aired in December and prompted a popular outcry.

    About your ‘witty’ comment at 12.01pm, please stop your attempts at humour. You’re not bright, you’re not funny but, if you believe your insinuation to have any basis, shouldn’t you contact the police? Why not just leave it at that?

  53. I hate to agree with or be in anyway seen to defend that idiot racist but

    Do you know for example that here in the UK when I worked with abused children in
    care
    (don’t worry I won’t give your identity away)

    is a disgusting comment on so many levels.,

  54. About your ‘witty’ comment at 12.01pm, please stop your attempts at humour. You’re not bright, you’re not funny but, if you believe your insinuation to have any basis, shouldn’t you contact the police? Why not just leave it at that?

    There was no insinuation about you doing anything. It was the being in care bit.
    It wasn’t an insinuation of bad behaviour. If you took it that way I apologise.
    Now as to my not being bright.
    If you believe that, why do you waste so much of your time either trying to get me to answer questions and what/who is a Jew, slurs on Jewish people and accusations of a Jewish world conspiracy?
    If I’m not bright enough to understand (and I think I have made plain some of my limitations, why keep reading my answers and asking new questions?
    Or is it the subject matter that is so compulsive?

  55. Agit8ed, on December 28th, 2013 at 4:39 PM Said:

    Whoo -hoooo!!

    Such righteous indignation. And what happened to the comedian Harri? Suddenly something shocks you? The guy who thinks anything up for ridicule suddenly becomes a model of probity!

    A joke about abused children, you are the one that needs help mate.

    You being a fine upstanding Godly man and all.

    Hang your head in shame.

  56. I started the comment jokey and I kept it jokey because that’s how I deal with Allan.
    Had I meant any more than that, more would have been said. As it is I turned it back on myself as Private Godfrey..

    Next Case!

    I think you meant Nutcase

  57. I am not the sub moronic cretin who considers that “something is very difficult is another was of saying that something is impossible. I am of course not defending the idiot racist, which is why I said “seen to defend” as opposed to merely “defend” and differentiating from that and actually agreeing with the idiot racist as I thought Harri’s first comment was the idiot racist’s.

    The idiot racist will not cause me to desist from speaking my mind.

  58. Harri baby,

    I dislike what Allan espouses. You admire him. So you take over answering the questions Allan seems compelled to ask me. According to him I’ve been giving him no answers or stoopid answers over the last two years. And despite me not being bright he still responds. My humour doesn’t suit either.

    Now you’ve got Jewish blood in you. You think you’re funny and you’re always shouting for the oppressed and ignorant drones. Maybe you should try sticking up for those drones you’re connected to by blood.
    Then Allan can ignore my comments and offload on somebody else.

  59. Aileen – please stop concerning yourself with being seen to defend me, or not, or whatever. Thank you.

  60. Agit8ed, on December 28th, 2013 at 5:18 PM Said:

    Harri baby,

    I dislike what Allan espouses. You admire him

    How many more times, I admire Allans Engineering skills, and I admire Allans patience and study of many subjects. what that has to do with my far flung Jewish blood is anyones guess.

    And I don’t get this bit ..

    You think you’re funny and you’re always shouting for the oppressed and ignorant drones. Maybe you should try sticking up for those drones you’re connected to by blood.

  61. Agit

    I am English, just like you an Anglo-Saxon, I will stick up for them.

    Shouting fot the oppressed, are you getting me mixed up with Petr?

    I hope not.

  62. How,do you ” admire ” Allan’s engineering skills?

    What exactly are those skills? In what area?

    What if anything has he built, or helped others to build?

  63. How many more times, I admire Allans Engineering skills, and I admire Allans patience and study of many subjects. what that has to do with my far flung Jewish blood is anyones guess.

    It may be true you admire Allans Engineering skills, but Allan is not mainly known for commenting on engineering.
    Or hadn’t you noticed?

    I remember some time ago,
    (when in my naivety I was trying to build some kind of rapport away from Der Judische Question)
    maybe a year or more, suggesting to him that he widen his topics to include what he does for a living. Big engineering projects I seem to remember. (I think he had let slip to someone that it was big engineering stuff.
    However, nothing really came of it.
    Apparently he is so keen to educate me round to his pov he ignores my shortcomings and keeps trying.

  64. Aileen – please stop concerning yourself with being seen to defend me, or not, or whatever. Thank you

    Wonder why this cretin thinks I would give a flying whatever about what he wants me to do. I don’t care if cretins think I was defending him.

  65. Shouting for the oppressed, are you getting me mixed up with Petr?

    No. Petr is an idealist.
    You are often going on about the “drones” of various backgrounds, so actively stick up for some Jewish ones.

  66. I agree with Allan 100% about the ‘Engineering facts’ with reference 9/11, what he states in my view is absolutely correct, if you Phantom believe that the twin towers were bought down by two aluminium tubes, then with all due respect, when it comes to ‘Engineering facts’ I will stick firmly with Allan.

    Phantom, whet are your Engineering credentials?

  67. No. Petr is an idealist.
    You are often going on about the “drones” of various backgrounds, so actively stick up for some Jewish ones.

    I mean the New World Order drones Agit, now I have mentioned that group of physcopaths enough times, and if they have Jewish drones, I do not care of what colour or creed they are, drones they will remain, and I have no time for any of them.

    Agit, I would not now or ever ‘stick up’ for any of those ‘drones’ they are useful idiots, why would I ?

    Agit, if you believe that I should stick up for Jews because I have some far and distant ‘Jewish blood’ in my veins, then I am sure you have absolutely no problems with Muslims standing up for other muslims no matter what stoneage and brutal extremist ideology they believe in.

  68. Phantom, on December 28th, 2013 at 5:44 PM Said:

    I have no engineering credentials.

    What engineering credentials does Allan have?

    I believe it’s ‘Structural engineering’ or something along those lines.

  69. How do you know?

    And if he is in that field, how do you know that he is good at it, or that he plays any sort of leading role?

    He could be a low level type.

    He frankly sounds very naive and not a fact based person – esp with the 9/11 jive. I don’t see him as any type of senior engineer. You need to be very smart to be an engineer.

  70. Agit

    And this is purely for arguments sake, how do you know what I think about the Holocaust?

    And again, before the wrong end of that pointy stick is grabbed by both of your hands with much smirking and glee, what are your views on any Jews that themselves question the ‘facts & figures’ of the Holocaust.

    In my view, and irrelevant to ones belief in any Holocaust ‘facts & Figures’ i believe that every man, woman & child should at some point there lives visit Auschwitz or one of the other concentration camps, and no, it should not be made ‘compulsory’ by the State, they should just take the time to reflect on what happens when the State gets out of control.

  71. Harri.
    I am passing this one over to you.

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 28th, 2013 at 4:47 PM Said:

    Agit – this is the reality for Ethiopian ‘jews’:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel

    Now then,
    this..
    “Arutz Sheva” http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/170410#.Ur8N57STTIU
    is an Israeli news station.
    Israelis are mostly Jews Harri, and in this link they are discussing the Ethiopian Jewish immigrants (Their skin is black Harri, because where they live it is very, very hot)
    Allan is concerned that the evil Israelis have deliberately (that means ‘on purpose’ I think)
    given the Ethiopian ladies birth control without consent.

    A bit like what the Nazis did (Nasty German people imo) in concentration camps to Jewish, Gypsy and other people they didn’t like very much.
    They also tried sewing twins together as well, but that’s another story. They might have been Jewish twins Harri, so there was probably a very, very, good reason why the Nazi doctors did it.

    Anyway,
    would you p;ease pass this link on to Allan, and ask him (very gently) what he thought about the film about the 14,000 Ethiopians (the ones with black skin) being brought to Israel.
    This is the link about that event Harri.
    http://www.bluestarpr.com/ethiopian-jews-documentary.html?gclid=CLnyxtrt0rsCFfMPtAodGV4AIQ

    Thank you.

  72. He frankly sounds very naive and not a fact based person – esp with the 9/11 jive. I don’t see him as any type of senior engineer. You need to be very smart to be an engineer.

    Phantom, don’t go there, you are not too precise on facts yourself are you, do you really need another reminder, you were 100% certain that all the steel from the Twin towers had been ‘forensically’ tested and inspected .. when most if not all was actually whisked away and melted down by the Chinese.

    In my view, and judging by Allans posts on engineering facts, I believe he is what he says he is.

    He frankly sounds very naive and not a fact based person – esp with the 9/11 jive.

    Can you provide any proof or alternative research (not touched by the State) to oppose what Allans engineering facts about 9/11 disclose.

  73. Harri

    I never said that -all- the steel had been forensically tested.

    You’re making stuff up again.

    When huge planes filled with fuel crash into 110 story buildings ( buildings without interior columns mind you ) bad things happen.

    A real engineer would know that.

  74. And again, before the wrong end of that pointy stick is grabbed by both of your hands with much smirking and glee, what are your views on any Jews that themselves question the ‘facts & figures’ of the Holocaust.

    I’m smirky, I’m dumb, I drool, I’m mad, unfunny,pompous, too serious,not serious enough, a nutcase, a believer in skygods and fairy tales, I don’t answer kvestions, I do answer kvestions but not the right ones
    and still they keep coming back to put the boot in. 🙂

    On the numbers question. Here you go Harri

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-features/.premium-1.540880

    and here’s a little excerpt which encapsulates why Allan and I differ so much on the subject..

    One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic “The Destruction of the European Jews.” In the third edition, from 1985, he provides a lengthy appendix explaining how he calculated the estimate.

    Lucy Dawidowicz, in her “The War Against the Jews” (1975), used prewar birth and death records to come up with a more precise figure of 5,933,900. And one of the more authoritative German scholars of the subject, Wolfgang Benz, offered a range of 5.3 to 6.2 million. Each used his or her own method to arrive at the totals.

    Nonetheless, the murder of the Jews of Europe is in a class by itself – not because of the numbers, but because of the ideology behind it, which placed the elimination of an entire people and their culture from the earth as one of its primary goals. It was unique because Nazi propaganda focused so intently on the Jews as an almost supernatural cause of evil, and the German war machine remained devoted to killing Jews up to the very last day of the war, long after it was clear that that war was lost.

    That is to say: Murdering the Jews was an end in itself, and it was used to motivate the German nation to great sacrifices of its own.

  75. ..then I am sure you have absolutely no problems with Muslims standing up for other muslims no matter what stoneage and brutal extremist ideology they believe in.

    I have no problem with Muslims sticking up for (but not going abroad to fight for and returning home to the UK again) Muslims. And I am quite sure that decent civilised Muslims don’t support stoneage and brutal extremist ideologies.

  76. Agit

    My view is thus:

    Six million, or six thousand, six would have been six too many, and that goes for all the other millions who died fighting a war started by (in my view) not because some halfwit shot a royal, or a bloke with a little black moustache meglomaniac fooled millions of his own nation, but a bloke with a little black moustache wanted out of the ‘Central banking’ system, but that’s a whole new debate maybe for another day.

  77. I have no problem with Muslims sticking up for (but not going abroad to fight for and returning home to the UK again)

    If, and that is a very very big IF, our beloved State stick by a sinhgle word they say, those muslims who do travel abroad to fight their Jihads in those Holy Lands will have their British citizenships removed from them, and rightly so.

    I would not hold my breath about that one though.

    “deprivation of citizenship orders”

    http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20131224190390

  78. Phantom, on December 28th, 2013 at 6:32 PM Said:

    So Hitler was the victim here.

    Got it.

    No, in case it slipped your notice, six million Jews and over 20 million other human beings were.

    They were the victims Phantom.

  79. Agit8ed, on December 28th, 2013 at 6:38 PM Said:

    Harri,
    Interesting.
    But not relevant to the Holocaust numbers bit.

    Agreed Agit

    We can all learn from what happens when the State spirals out of control.

  80. Are the numbers of Gypsie etc victims of the Holocaust also disputed or is it only the Jewish victims?

  81. Agit

    If you, me or anyone for that matter questions the figures for how many Russians were slaughtered by Stalin or how many Cambodians the Khmer Rouge slaughtered amongst many other World attrocities, the word ‘Denier’ is never mentioned?

  82. Paul McMahon, on December 28th, 2013 at 6:42 PM Said:

    Are the numbers of Gypsie etc victims of the Holocaust also disputed or is it only the Jewish victims?

    See, my above post.

  83. Agit

    The Human race hopefully will never repeat the Holocaust, but I don’t believe I have the same hope for what the State is capable of.

    I don’t see the State as part of the human race.

  84. If you, me or anyone for that matter questions the figures for how many Russians were slaughtered by Stalin or how many Cambodians the Khmer Rouge slaughtered amongst many other World attrocities, the word ‘Denier’ is never mentioned?

    Don’t understand the question.
    The point is in my link that the crime is not the exactitude of the figures of how many perished it is that it was attempted.
    In response to someone insisting the Jews didn’t experience persecution in Europe I posted a source at 11:09am that shows that as the power of the state Christian church grew, so did state sanctified persecution against the Jews.

    My friend in the village has no interest in his Jewish heritage. At all.
    But he is interested in the Holocaust, and is coming to the lecture Harri to see what this Jewish academic is going to say. Perhaps along the lines of “Where was God then?”
    I don’t know. We two haven’t discussed it, but it may come up.
    Frankly I am getting bored with this.
    I do not unconditionally support/defend the Jewish people and Israel, but I do it as a Christian and as an ex kibbutz volunteer, and as having Jewish in laws.

    To not oppose to the best of my ability the stuff Allan pushes would be another crime against them.

  85. To not oppose to the best of my ability the stuff Allan pushes would be another crime against them.

    Why?

    They are his views, we have seen what happens, and are on that slippery slope when some free peoples views are ‘not allowed’.

  86. Of course his views are allowed Harri, but they are imo dangerous and insidious.

    Think back as to how Hitler (and I am not comparing) got started. He had ridiculous views, but with some “muscle” and violence his influence grew.

    I said to you the other day, don’t just comment about M&S, DO something. Write/email them and copy in your MP. You don’t protect freedom and democracy by commenting, you have to be prepared to use that freedom to keep freedom safe.

    I think the Troll believes the same thing but I take the cissy “no guns” option..

  87. I think the Troll believes the same thing but I take the cissy “no guns” option..

    We have no other choice living in England 😉

    Think back as to how Hitler (and I am not comparing) got started. He had ridiculous views, but with some “muscle” and violence his influence grew.

    As I said Agit, ‘How Hitler gor started’ is maybe a whole new debate for another day (it might take some considerable amount of time), and please do not take this as ‘Anti-Semitic’ or worse, Hitler wanted out of that ‘Central banking’ system, he did not want the German Nation to be run and controled by ‘Debt’, and who owned all those ‘Central banks’?

  88. //someone insisting the Jews didn’t experience persecution in Europe//

    He didn’t.

    // I posted a source at 11:09am that shows that as the power of the state Christian church grew, so did state sanctified persecution//

    You didn’t.

  89. Harri,
    Don’t forget that the ignorant fool below wrote what he wrote. Ask DV for my contact details and I’ll show you what I’m working on – with due confidentiality, of course. Unlike the ignoramus below, you do have technical knowledge. As you have noticed, I always provide supporting evidence with any contentious posts.

    Phantom, on December 28th, 2013 at 5:56 PM Said:

    How do you know?

    And if he is in that field, how do you know that he is good at it, or that he plays any sort of leading role?

    He could be a low level type.

    He frankly sounds very naive and not a fact based person – esp with the 9/11 jive. I don’t see him as any type of senior engineer. You need to be very smart to be an engineer.

  90. Allan,
    you do remember when I tried to open things out a bit topic-wise? I think we were discussing environmental issues or something, and I tried to get you to give some of your technical experience on engineering projects?
    Or did I dream that?

  91. I’ve said exactly what I do for a living. Allan – why can’t you do the same? What do you do? What training have you had?

    Your comments on the WTC in particular have always been lacking in any detail that anyone familiar with the buildings would recognize.

    Like the other Truthers , you are a follower of your pre existing prejudice, no more.

  92. Phantom –

    You’ve said that you work in insurance. What you actually do for a living might well be something different, such as being a paid government troll. Allan@Aberdeen has said that he’s an engineer working in the oil field. Given what some are like online, I wouldn’t give any more info than that.

    “Like the other Truthers , you are a follower of your pre existing prejudice, no more.”

    Aren’t we all. Your prejudice is always for more government and for more obeisance to government. That’s what you think (or are paid to propagate), so you’re a slave to your prejudices.

    Anyway Allan@Aberdeen, being sceptical of the government’s 9/11 fairytale, is a potential terrorist:

    A Department of Justice memo instructs local police, under a program named “communities against terrorism,” to consider anyone who harbors “conspiracy theories” about 9/11 to be a potential terrorist.

    And if that doesn’t make you wonder what they’re up to, nothing will. Totalitarian states have always had to invent new enemies and outlaw internal dissidents. This is just another chapter.

  93. Allan is not an architect. He has never designed a building. He has never certified the safety of a building designed by others

    He has never spoken about the lightweight design the towers -different than other tall buildings, controversial in its day,

    He has never spoken about what he thinks the proper amount of damage to such buildings when hit at 600 mph by huge , heavy airplanes filed with jet fuel. He apparently thinks that the planes should have cause eno damage at all.

    How can any intelligent person listen to this stuff?

  94. Pete

    I don’t think that government is always right or that it is always wrong. To think either, is to not be thinking at all. It should do what it does best, and no more.

    That is all that I’ve ever said here.

  95. Phantom – please watch this for 10 minutes and tell me where it is incorrect:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSyqfM-Rgy0

    The professionals who support Engineers and Architects for 9/11 Truth are engineers (that’s me – mechanical and offshore engineering, including mechanics of offshore structures) and architects, and these are people who meet the criteria which you require.

    This paragraph is interesting:

    He has never spoken about what he thinks the proper amount of damage to such buildings when hit at 600 mph by huge , heavy airplanes filed with jet fuel. He apparently thinks that the planes should have cause eno damage at all.

    On several occasions, I have shown that the jet fuel ignited on impact (those were the fireballs which can be seen when the planes hit the towers) which left very little to heat the load-bearing columns in the zone of impact. I also showed that the maximum temperature which jet fuel could reach under open conditions could not approach the temperatures necessary to cause noteworthy weakening of the structural columns. Moreover, when a structure is hit on one side, it would be expected that failure would tend towards the side where damage is incurred i.e. the portion above the assymetrical impact zone would topple towards the side of the impact in the same manner as a table would topple to where a table leg was missing or a tree topples to where the segment of trunk has been removed. To state baldly that “he apparently thinks that the planes should have cause no damage at all” is false and mendacious, but is exactly what is expected of you given your intellectual deficiencies as well as a willingness to misrepresent and obfuscate. But then, that’s obviously what you do for a living.

    Pete – as made open to Harri, ask DV for my contact details and I’ll send you some info on the ground-breaking projects which I’m driving, confidentially of course.

  96. when hit at 600 mph by huge , heavy airplanes filled with jet fuel

    Phantom -Civilian aircraft can’t exceed 250mph at low altitudes as they are not designed to fly at such speeds through air of density encountered at low altitudes. You couldn’t be expected to grasp that because you are profoundly ignorant of technical matters and because of your intellectual limitations, but what I state is true.

  97. Like the other Truthers , you are a follower of your pre existing prejudice, no more

    Phantom is a joke – he must be. Anybody who had “pre-existing prejudice” 🙂 would have been onto the 9/11 false flag from the start. I believed what I was told for several years as can be seen by anybody who checks ATW posts circa 2007-2009 so how could Phantom’s claim of “pre-existing prejudice”(??) be true?

    I will admit that nowadays I want any major incident where people have been reported as shot dead in mass shootings to be looked at sceptically until independent corroborative evidence is shown. Strangely, the Establishment’s people are NEVER attacked by terrorists.

  98. f you, me or anyone for that matter questions the figures for how many Russians were slaughtered by Stalin or how many Cambodians the Khmer Rouge slaughtered amongst many other World attrocities, the word ‘Denier’ is never mentioned?

    Bollocks.

    Cambodian Genocide Denial hsa it’s own wikipedia entry (ironically one of the leading deniers was murdered by the Khmer Rouge himself). The same is true for denial of the Holodomor.

  99. //ivilian aircraft can’t exceed 250mph at low altitudes as they are not designed to fly at such speeds through air of density encountered at low altitudes//

    That isn’t true. Air density makes it more difficult to fly at those altitudes, especially if the pilot increases speed, which the 9-11 pilots apparently did. But that kind of speed is nothing for any jet aircraft: 250 mph at close to ground level is about .33 Mach (the speed of sound differs according to altitude), yet jet airlines CRUISE at .75 Mach, i.e. at much greater air strain conditions for the aircraft.

  100. Noel

    You beat me to it. Just because a commercial aircraft is not designed to go at high speed / low altitude, does not mean that it can’t be pushed to high speed/low altitude, esp in a short burst.

    These planes, esp. the second one, which was faster than the first, were going very fast – as witnessed by many eyewitnesses, and as captured on tv images. Even to the naked eye, this was not the same general speed as a plane easing into a landing.

    We’re not going to play hide and go seek with Allan’s lie machine tonight – the lies are far too numerous, and all of them are intentional – there are no ” errors ” . After all, if you’re gonna tell a lie, why not tell a big one?

    Allan

    Neither Pete nor Harri have ever challenged you in any way on any subject. They are your unquestioning followers.
    You can send them all the personal files you like. Their verification of your bona fides will be like asking Tom Cruise if Scientology is the genuine article.

    You are no expert on aircraft, or on the architectural properties of exceptionally tall buildings, esp these two buildings, which were built very differently than say the Empire State Building, etc.

  101. Phantom – you are writing nonsense again and again and once again. I asked you specifically to view that linked video (the narrator describes it as “high school physics”) and I asked you to tell me where he was wrong. Yet again, you avoid the very issue which you raised because you are an expert on sfa. Did you view the video linked at 9.18pm?

  102. You didn’t watch – pathetic.

    After all, if you’re gonna tell a lie, why not tell a big one?

    Yes – how about 6million? Now THAT is a Big Lie!

    Let’s have some basic thermodynamics:

    The speed of sound in air is directly related to the square root of the ambient air temperature in degrees Kelvin. At cruising altitude, the air temperature is about -60degC (213 degK) whilst on 9/11 at 1000ft, the air temperature was about 20degC (293degK). At cruising altitude, the sonic speed is 290m/sec (650mph) but at 1000ft is about 340m/sec (760mph). This means that at cruising altitude (30,000ft?) a plane at 500mph is about the same Mach number as a plane doing 600mph at 1,000ft – BUT THE DRAG IS RELATED TO AIR DENSITY and at 1,000ft, a passenger aircraft would be incapable of 600mph because the structure would disintegrate under the loads imposed. Surely those expert ‘suicide’ pilots would have known that?

  103. We’ll take the plane physics lessons from people who study planes.

    The second plane was very close to that speed. It could not have done that for long, but it flew at that speed ans altitude for a short time.

  104. No Phantom – you’ll take a short lesson in thermodynamics from me.

    In any case, here’s a video for you specific to the planes which hit the twin towers, as of 1.28.20. The air traffic controllers considered the planes to be military whilst civilian (1.34.32) and military (1.33.40) pilots state that the planes (if they are as we’re told) could not fly at the collision speeds reported. The engines don’t have the power for such speed at sea level and the structures would disintegrate. They are experts in their field whilst you are expert in nothing technical or representative of genuine human endeavour. An insurance salesman ‘don’t know diddly-squat’

    At 1.36.18, Boeing was asked about the speeds at sea level – hear the laugh 🙂

  105. you know what Allan you’re a real kook.

    It’s bad enough we have to listen to your neo-nazi crap, but the 9/11 crap just really pisses me off. Let me give you a lesson schmuck from someone who worked on Aircraft in the military and was running a control tower on 9/11. You don’t know crap, and your a fool.

    I was listening live to Air Traffic Control feed when these planes hit, I was in charge of 1 third of the ground air traffic at Philly international. I was there when all this went down. My airport held 391 planes if we used every gate. By the end of that afternoon we had over 1200 planes parked on the ground.

    The majority of the traffic from DC and NY was redirected to Philly because we had the reenforced concrete to park all the extra weight and were in the majority of the planes fuel range. You have no idea how many rules were violated just to get planes out of the sky before they started to fall out.

    This was my business in the military and for 16 years in civilian life. You and all these 9/11 truther scumbags are useful idiots. Tell me Allan you ever been on a C-130 when it landed on an Aircraft carrier? I have. There are people who say that can’t be done either.

    I don’t care about your nazi attitude. This 9/11 crap is why I despise you. You ever work on a boeing aircraft? you ever fix one? And as for the telephone crap they are in the process right now of making sure that idiots can’t use their cell phones during flights now with the new rule changes so you don’t have some idiot sitting next to you talking on them the whole flight, so don’t tell me you can’t use your cell in flight.

    Also my nation is not the “evil empire” for your goofball theory movie to work it said the planes were replaced by drones that means every passenger was landed some where else and men women and children were taken off killed and the bodies disappeared. My country doesn’t do that to civilians.

    Your sir offend me. This is why I tell you to take your Meds.

  106. I play a character on this site. I antagonize and beat on people for fun. I use this character The Troll to instigate, provoke and amuse myself, but The Airline industry was my life and passion for decades. You can link to all the crazy crap you want. I was there.

    Now if you want to make the case that the jews were behind it, or the saudies that flew the planes were genetically engineered grey aliens planted by the CIA you go right ahead, but don’t lecture us what an aircraft can or can not do or claim that my government killed all those civilians that day because george bush and dick cheyney or some shadow government wanted a war.

    I still remember that day first hand from the view of someone that was running a control tower in the middle of it, and I say your a kook.

  107. No it’s not funny Troll, far from it my freind.

    But your Drones do exactly just that, not in the States granted, but they do kill innocent. men, women & children.

    Just collateral damage I assume.

  108. I don’t care about your nazi attitude. This 9/11 crap is why I despise you. You ever work on a boeing aircraft? you ever fix one? And as for the telephone crap they are in the process right now of making sure that idiots can’t use their cell phones during flights now with the new rule changes so you don’t have some idiot sitting next to you talking on them the whole flight, so don’t tell me you can’t use your cell in flight.

    You may or may not be correct there Troll, the reports I have read so far stipulate, that they are thinking about allowing mobile phones, Laptops and other gadget users to use those electrical gadgets for game play and other apps, not for making calls, I might be wrong, I am orf out now, maybe if I get the time later I will do some more reading up on that ..

    Toodlepip.

  109. O/T

    I note Phantom was absolutley spot on with .. ‘You will not change them., they will change you’

    Thus:

    Daily Mail lifts veil of secrecy judge threw over trial of two Muslim lawyers on trial for perverting the course of justice ‘for cultural reasons’
    Reporting the case of Asha Khan, 30, and Kashif Khan, 34, was banned
    The order was made to prevent them being shamed in their community
    But after a legal challenge from the Daily Mail, the restrictions were lifted
    Asha Khan was found guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice
    She and Kashif were said to be involved in a plot to switch speeding points

    But Kashif, Asha’s brother, was acquitted after arguing he did not know

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530893/Reporting-Muslim-lawyers-trial-banned-cultural-reasons-Judges-gagging-order-lifted-appeal-Daily-Mail.html#ixzz2owqCnsgL

  110. Talking about conspiracy theories has anyone noticed the dig that didn’t bark? There have been a couple of terrorist attacks in Russia this weekend- following on from others in the last fifteen years- yet none of the crazy gang are here insisting that it was an inside job. Even Allan has never offered his insights into the Beslan massacre or Moscow theatre siege.

    It’s almost as if prominent members of the crank community know that the gigs on Russia Today will dry up if they go there.

  111. Ross – did you view the videos which I offered as evidence at 9.18pm yesterday and 2.00am this morning?

  112. our drones kill terrorists, if they are using their families as shields… oh well.

    It’s still different then pulling people off of civilian aircraft lining them up and shooting them, which is what allan believes we did.

  113. //You have no idea how many rules were violated just to get planes out of the sky before they started to fall out.//

    Nice comment, Troll. It gives an idea of the urgency and the cooperation needed to stop that day of disaster turning into total breakdown.

    Anyone who was involved in any way in bringing those aircraft safely down or facilitating the rescue services on 9-11 has reason to be very proud.

    //It’s almost as if prominent members of the crank community know that the gigs on Russia Today will dry up if they go there.//

    🙂

  114. not to mention the intentional killing of all those people in the towers.

    If you believe we killed our own people in a massive attack you’re an idiot too. If we wanted to start a war do you really think we would have to kill our own first?

    If we were capable of that why would we bother? We would just attack anyone we wanted, who could stop us, and if we would kill all our own civilians in this manner do you think we would care what anyone thought of us killing foreigners?

    put down the crack pipe, go get help and take your medication. The United States is not the Evil Empire.

  115. It was nightmare Noel, it was a day of hell and there were 100s of us in the industry doing things to get people safely on the ground that weren’t in the books and never will be.

    That day still sits raw with many of us.

  116. If you believe we killed our own people in a massive attack you’re an idiot too. If we wanted to start a war do you really think we would have to kill our own first?

    “We”?? “WE”?? Who exactly are “we”?

    Has anybody looked at the explanatory videos which I offered as evidence at 9.18pm yesterday and 2.00am this morning?

  117. Beslan massacre or Moscow theatre siege.

    Beslan, in my view the worst attrocity I have ever witnessed, and again in my view proves beyond any shadow of doubt, just how low the stoneage cold blooded bottom of the evolutionary ladder misguided muslim fanatics are prepared to stoop.

    If there really is a God, I hope he or she shows their souls no mercy.

  118. Allan

    You are in an alternate reality

    I am actually surprised that you have not said that ” the Jews were warned about 9/11 and the Jewish workers called in sick that day ” . Because I am certain that you believe it. You believe all the other stories.

  119. If there really is a God, I hope he or she shows their souls no mercy.

    Lol!

    Any luck with the metal detecting?

  120. Phantom – have you looked at the explanatory videos which I offered as evidence at 9.18pm yesterday and 2.00am this morning?

    Btw, didn’t ‘lucky’ Larry Silverstein have a fortunate dental appointment on 9/11? Yes, he did, and his children who both worked at the twin towers were also absent that day – very lucky and very true: pure cohencidence.

    Now, away from conjecture – have you looked at the explanatory videos which I offered as evidence at 9.18pm yesterday and 2.00am this morning?

  121. Any luck with the metal detecting?

    Yesterday, a great day out with the club in Oxfordshire, i found a stunning 1st century Roman bronze ring, 8 bronze roman coins and 12TH Century seal matrix complete .. and i managed to get my wifes new car stuck firmly in the mud .. she was not happy when i finaly got home 😉

    Next week, we are having a detecting weekender in Hampshire, unless it snows.

    Agit, you should try detecting, it is fascinating, i watch an American version of ‘Treasure hunters’, there are two of them detecting, they get excited if they dig up a 1970’s coke can 🙂

  122. Agit, you should try detecting, it is fascinating, i watch an American version of ‘Treasure hunters’, there are two of them detecting, they get excited if they dig up a 1970′s coke can 🙂

    I did some years ago with my young brother down on the Kentish coast where the Victorians used to bring the barges full of rubbish down from London. (Yes, they did.)
    The problem was I had a real cheapo one and every time it detected something it made a sound like a wet fart from a duck.
    We spent a lot of time in hysterics..
    All we found of interest was earthenware jam containers and assorted glass bottles.
    I told you before (were you drunk?) that I intend to buy a reasonably good’n and use my farmer contacts for the fields around here. I think you suggested a model to me? No more than £300 I said.
    We have quite a few historical sites relatively unexplored as far as I know. So I will get into it when I finish the garden.

  123. Ebay then.

    I don’t think so, thank you very much!
    Local dealer/second hand shop?
    Someone with a decent one to sell?

  124. Allan

    You have a batting average below the Mendoza Line on all matters, and it’s quite a bit below that on matters of 9/11.

    My time is worth more than yours, and I don’t wish to waste more of it. When you concede the point that your above comments on the speed of the two 767s were entirely without merit, then maybe I’ll take the time to look at your wee youtubes.

  125. I don’t think so, thank you very much!
    Local dealer/second hand shop?
    Someone with a decent one to sell?

    Regtons, or better still, the aftersales is superb .. Joan Allens

  126. FISHER F4 METAL DETECTOR
    There.
    Something like that.
    That looks simple enough for me.
    Whaddya think?
    (And don’t go all snobby on me. I wanna have a hobby, not study for a degree in nuclear physics..)

  127. …and I don’t wish to waste more of it.

    Smart move Phantom.
    Escape from the ‘Twilight Zone’ while you still can.
    Whatever the ins and outs, where’s all this stuff lead to anyway ?
    Pan’s Labyrinth that’s where.
    Nothing is ever done with all this stuff, it just gets regurgitated time after time.

  128. The only thing is that it will be disturbing to let the Big Lies go unchallenged over time.

    We’ll see.

    Cheers.

  129. The only thing is that it will be disturbing to let the Big Lies go unchallenged over time.

    I have read loads of web stuff on this. One or more saying Dick Cheney was behind it all, etc. etc.
    But all these conspiracy theorists (and not just on 9/11) where does it lead to?
    If the government was able to investigate it I think it would have come out by now.
    Or was everybody in on it?!

  130. Phantom, on December 30th, 2013 at 2:27 PM Said:

    The only thing is that it will be disturbing to let the Big Lies go unchallenged over time.

    We’ll see.

    Cheers.

    Oh the irony, see the ‘official 9/11 report’ for further details .. it should have stared with ‘Once upon a time’, one would need a heart of stone not to laugh 😉

  131. Even Putin himself, no friend of the US, poured complete scorn on the Truther premise of controlled demolition / False Flag. But the creatures of the Lie, the Alex Jones / Michael Moore types from right or left, and most certainly all those who dwell here, can not and will not be persuaded by logic or fact. This is mental illness we are speaking of, nothing more. I could almost some believing in this stuff in the immediate aftermath of the attacks – the level of evil and destruction was that hard to process. But not now.

    http://rt.com/politics/9-11-putin-seliger-investigation-toronto-355/

  132. Pan’s Labyrinth that’s where.

    Brilliant movie by the way ..

    9/11, I agree there is absolutely no reason to carry on about it anymore, they real cold blooded murderers got away with it Scot free, my only hope now is for either technology (which i suspect strongly will be their nemesis) or Karma .. which I suspect won’t.

    Bollocks to it, over 3000 innocents lost their lives to some New World Order freaks .. let them get on with it, it aint affected my life in the slightest, and no need to lose any sleep over it.

  133. Hi everyone

    I am back after my Christmas break. Hope you all had an enjoyable time. I haven’t looked at most of the posts on ATW in recent days but I noticed how long the thread was on this one so I have skimmed through it and I see that it represents all that is good bad and sadly even a little bit ugly about this tangled blog. Its good to see that the place has still been lively though ! Look forward to us continuing to throw bricks and bouquets at each other into 2014 🙂

  134. Last word .. whatever the truth , who gives a shit now it was just so long ago .. it’s history now.

    The official ‘report’ is and will reamain a load of unmitigated bollocks 😉

    Let that be the end of it.

  135. Hi Colm

    The clinic let you out early huh ! 😉

    Merry belated Christmas and a happy New Year me old China

  136. Welcome back Colm. I thought you must have gone off
    somewhere.
    The problems I think have been resol-ved.
    Nothing to see here….

  137. Agit8ed

    I was in a few places, including an unexpected trip to a funeral in Ireland, but I see that my calming influence is needed back here on ATW 😉

  138. This is an interesting story about a guy who was a truther, had a following, and then changed his mind about the ‘controlled exposion’ theory after personally meeting people who were there and experts…the truthers turned on him.

    >>On a June afternoon in the middle of New York’s Times Square, Charlie Veitch took out his phone, turned on the camera and began recording a statement about the 2001 destruction of the World Trade Center.

    “I was a real firm believer in the conspiracy that it was a controlled demolition,” he started. “That it was not in any way as the official story explained. But, this universe is truly one of smoke screens, illusions and wrong paths. If you are presented with new evidence, take it on, even if it contradicts what you or your group want to believe. You have to give the truth the greatest respect, and I do.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/10079244/The-911-conspiracy-theorist-who-changed-his-mind.html

    Veitch is spellbound by ideas, but the problem is that he has two competing world views that he’s never been able to reconcile. Born in Rio de Janeiro to a Brazilian mother and a Scottish merchant seaman, Veitch inherited a Right-wing outlook from his father, a patriotic, working class Thatcherite. But his father also passed on a mistrust of authority.

    “He told me, just because someone’s wearing a uniform or a fancy hat, it doesn’t mean they’re your boss,” he says.Veitch Snr was also responsible for Charlie’s peripatetic childhood.

  139. But his father also passed on a mistrust of authority.

    mairin2
    that’s a very interesting statement.
    My elder brother was just a year old when my father had to extend his naval service for the second world war.
    As a result at 7 he didn’t know who my dad was when he came back emaciated and damaged by his experiences.
    He had a lifelong problem with men in, or of authority, and got in far better with women who often wanted to ‘mother’ him. He ended up an alcoholic and died so sadly for those of us who loved him, of related illnesses.
    Now I have a theory that some of us are sensitive to certain issues because of something that happened to us often, or even as a one off. It can colour our whole outlook on life.

  140. including an unexpected trip to a funeral in Ireland

    Just seen this.
    We nearly had a funeral here, but there was so many contestants for ‘corpse of the day…’ 🙂

  141. yeah Allan I watched your asshole film, at 1.37.30 it says says we can’t say for sure what happened to the passengers, but the CIA has had the ability to switch planes with drones for years.

    Clearly implying that the WE you sick demented nazi the US government then killed all those men women and babies after of course using the drones to kill everyone in the towers.

    Your scum Allan, and you really should be in a home for mental patients.

  142. mairin2 –

    Charlie Veitch is an actor, a con artist. He probably had no opinion on 9/11 to begin with.

  143. Hahahaha – Troll thinks that the CIA and the other TLAs (three-letter-acronyms) are working with and for the likes of him. It’s because the likes of Troll are so stupid, and I concede that he is represenatative of the majority, that 9/11 and 7/7 can happen, and keep happening, and in the post at 10.37pm I see exactly why.

    The planes which hit the twin towers could not have flown at 600mph as is made clear by expert pilots and by Boeing itself. The fundamental mechanics are stated clearly and unequivocally so all that is needed is the ability to grasp these fundamentals. The majority, as represented on this site by the resident dolt Troll, are incapable of understanding these fundamentals, and those who carry out these ‘projects’ know this.

  144. Allan

    you really need help, seriously.

    Oh and who do you think works for the CIA?

    People like me….. think about it. 🙂

  145. Troll – pilots have stated categroically that the aircraft claimed to have hit the towers at 600mph could not have done so for the reasons duly given. The air traffic controllers considered the planes to be military whilst civilian (1.34.32) and military (1.33.40) pilots state that the planes (if they are as we’re told) could not fly at the collision speeds reported. The engines don’t have the power for such speed at sea level and the aircraft would disintegrate were such speed attempted. At 1.36.18, Boeing was asked about the speeds at sea level – hear the laugh. There is no getting past the technical facts.

  146. ….but the CIA has had the ability to switch planes with drones for years.

    Clearly implying that the WE you sick demented nazi the US government then killed all those men women and babies after of course using the drones to kill everyone in the towers.

    Troll – you may have missed the important detail of the text of switching planes with drones coming from ACTUAL CIA DOCUMENTS being shown there and then from Operation Northwoods.

  147. Why do you people engage this nonsense?

    Don’t you have anything more fulfilling in your lives?

    Masturbating would be a more worthwhile use of your time.

  148. Daphne,
    Coming on here and encouraging men to masturbate is weird.
    But we understand your frustration.. 🙂

    Allan
    you can hardly call the Troll a dolt when he has already told you his involvement and responsibilities on that horrific occasion.
    It is surely apparent (again) that your concerns are not fur the innocent dead and bereaved..
    (people falling/jumping from the building, making last phone calls to loved ones??)
    YOUR concern is
    COVER UP! CONSPIRACY!!
    I think mairin2 touched on something with her Charlie Veitch comment. Personally I find you disturbing and rather sad in almost equal measures. I wouldn’t want to see you stop posting but there is something clearly out of balance. Despite all our disagreements I do respect you if not your views. Please talk to someone who might help.

  149. I don’t think Allan really believes a lot of the stuff he puts our here. I think he does it just to engineer debate and see how people react.

  150. //Masturbating would be a more worthwhile use of your time.//

    What makes you think some of us can’t type with our left hands?

  151. Colm

    There has always been a subculture who believes in this conspiracy stuff. In the US, there are radio stations that have this as their main product, 24/7.

    Allan mixes it with a very classical, and sinister, Jew hatred.

    He believes every word. i bet that he goes a lot further than this with some people that he really trusts.

  152. I did a lot of reading on conspiracy theorists after the hurricane ’cause I had a lot (clearly, too much) time on my hands. I read several academic reports/studies as well as probably every main stream publication written on ‘the phenonemon’ at that time. He does believe it. He has to; it’s a ‘control’ thang. 🙂 He is a ‘classic case’. And the Jew-focus is not uncommon at all…there are actually statistics (I know you can’t trust statistics) on the number of people who believe in 9/11 conspiracies and have that Jewish obsession and IIRC, it’s more than 55%. He is rather run-of-the-mill; nothing exceptional about his place in a category of people who are at the far end of this spectrum. Since reading more about him and the likes of him, I feel sorry for him. I bet his mind doesn’t rest trying to connect dots that don’t necessarily connect. It won’t stop. With that said, there is some depravity in his character that I find hard to look past.

  153. I don’t think Allan really believes a lot of the stuff he puts our here. I think he does it just to engineer debate and see how people react.
    I don’t think so Colm.
    I have been warned by a few not to engage with him, but being of a slightly argumentative nature myself (especially about people I know and respect.) Allan never follows up on the positive or alternative stuff I put out re Israel.

    If he wanted reaction he would I think, needle you on your evidence, but he doesn’t. He goes back to his sources; and I have checked quite a few of them out, and some are quite poisonous.

    I would say that there is an overdose of obsession and an apparent lack of positive emotion and ability to engage with others.
    Having said all of that
    (and yes I might be totally wrong; he might in fact be a caring compassionate social worker),
    I wish him well. I think he has far more to offer than he shows here, and paradoxically. ATW wouldn’t be the same without him.
    GOD BLESS YA Allan!

    i

  154. mairin2
    A scholarly appraisal.
    Far fuller than my observations and generalities.
    What are you,
    eddicated or sump’n? 🙂

    I think you are a very sweet lady.
    I wish you and those you care about, every blessing in 20I4.

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