19 1 min 8 yrs

 

When embarking on a path which is more than slightly unpopular, when that path means moving towards your true beliefs and traditions, guess who comes along to give you the type of support you really, really, could have done without!

 

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19 thoughts on “…and your ‘friends’ closer.

  1. //your true beliefs and traditions, guess who comes along to give you the type of support you really, really, could have done without!//

    I’m not sure at all what the sentence in the post means. (Who is embarking, who is supporting whom and with what?), but one thing this shows is that traditional Christian and traditional Muslim laws and standards have not a little in common.

  2. I think what Mike is saying is that he believes moves towards criminalising and punishing homosexuality is fine when done for traditional Christian reasons, but becomes a bit less comfortable when it also pleases the Muslim fundamentalists.

  3. moves towards criminalising and punishing homosexuality

    Huh?

    When did Mike or anyone else here propose such things?

  4. I didn’t say he proposed it , only that Nigeria is doing it but I am speculating on the gist of his often cryptic posts on the matter.

  5. //When did Mike or anyone else here propose such things?//

    Several here supported it when done by Russia.

  6. I think Mike is confused by which way he should turn. Africans, Gays and Muslims are involved and it must be quite a strain on him to know which one to denounce the most.

  7. There is no Christian command to punish homosexuals any more than there was to punish people who didn’t toe the Catholic doctrinal line.. a la Inquisition.

  8. The General Secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria supports the Government law against homosexuals.

    However there are also organized Christian groups there who have opposed it.

  9. The General Secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria supports the Government law against homosexuals.

    However there are also organized Christian groups there who have opposed it.

  10. //There is no Christian command to punish homosexuals //

    That never stopped “Christian” zealots from punishing them (and 100 others for similar “sins”). They can draw on the Old Testament, or twist the sayings of Jesus to say whatever they want them to say.
    (didn’t David once interpret Jesus to claim he supported capital punishment)

  11. Homosexuality has been observed in about 450 species….homophobia has been observed in one.

  12. The General Secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria supports the Government law against homosexuals.

    However there are also organized Christian groups there who have opposed it.

    The Protestant tradition of Sola Scriptura means that Christians have no mandate for punishing homosexuals or people whose beliefs differ from ours.

    The problems arise when Churchians mix teachings from the Old Testament with those from the New. The role of the true Christian Church is to share the Gospel of forgiveness and regeneration (through true repentance) made possible by the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ; and! to do good in the world.
    Anything else causes confusion.
    The Christians in Nigeria may be mixing cultural values with their faith,and whilst Christians are called to live holy lives, they are not called to punish people who don’t conform.

  13. /The Protestant tradition of Sola Scriptura means that Christians have no mandate for punishing homosexuals or people whose beliefs differ from ours./

    My, what a pity you weren’t around several hundred years ago to tell all those Protestants.

  14. Agit8ed

    For centuries homosexuality was criminalised and punished throughout Western societies fuelled by Christian moral teaching and supported by all the Church groups. To say that Christianity did not punish homosexuality is simply inaccurate from a historical perspective.

  15. For centuries homosexuality was criminalised and punished throughout Western societies fuelled by Christian moral teaching and supported by all the Church groups. To say that Christianity did not punish homosexuality is simply inaccurate from a historical perspective.

    From a historical perspective, yes Colm.

    But let’s be clear, the New Testament does not allow for the Christian Church to punish people. Christianity is always seen as being IN the world, but not OF it. So there will never be a Christian State and things like eg The Moral Majority were misguided in their attempts to impose Christian morality on a non Christian society.

    From a ‘Sola Scriptura’ perspective this would be more appropriate..

    “Matthew 13:36-43

    36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

    37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

    38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

    40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

    41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

    42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    I think those from a Catholic background find this very hard to accept, but State churches are not the model for Christianity. You can’t impose Christianity on people, you can only share and debate why you believe it to be true. The problem with State churches is that people end up worshipping and obeying the Church, rather than the Founder of the Church.

  16. //I think those from a Catholic background find this very hard to accept, but State churches are not the model for Christianity. You can’t impose Christianity on people,//

    Come now, you old bigot. In your country, Protestants, including Presbyterians, were by far the worst in imposing their beliefs on everyone else as a state religion – banning other religious practices, forcing other believers by law to attend Protestant services, forcing Catholics to pay for the upkeep of the Protestant church (this didn’t end until 1869), executing those who allowed other clergy even stay in their homes etc. etc…

  17. Come now, you old bigot. In your country, Protestants, including Presbyterians, were by far the worst in imposing their beliefs on everyone else as a state religion – banning other religious practices, forcing other believers by law to attend Protestant services, forcing Catholics to pay for the upkeep of the Protestant church (this didn’t end until 1869), executing those who allowed other clergy even stay in their homes etc. etc…

    S’funny
    I thought I already explained that here…

    “The problems arise when Churchians mix teachings from the Old Testament with those from the New. ”

    and many other times where I have stated that State Churches are just that. An extension of the power and control of the State.

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