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…………and whats mine is my own!

By Mike Cunningham On February 24th, 2014

One of the many things which marked the Communist philosophy of the old Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was the belief that there was no such thing as private property, everything belonged to the State, everyone was equal, notwithstanding George Orwell’s comments; and the only loyalty was to the State. The fact that the leaders of that bloody revolutionary State, who murdered so many millions of Soviet Russia’s own, and placed millions more in abject poverty, considered themselves above the law in regard to that property, is perhaps beside the point. They did believe themselves better, and more worthy of special treatment, to the extent of building their own suburbs where the èlite, or the ‘Nomenklatura’ could insulate themselves as the new ‘ruling class’ from the workers, the peasants, who were treated as little more than slaves of the new aristocracy.

But the old ideals of ‘no private property’, of a blanket desire to make all do as the new Czars of the old Russia decreed, lives on today in the minds of some here in the West, despite ample demonstration that the old systems, the old ‘Communism’ just did not work. These people still believe that the old traditions of the Communists should still be allowed to grow in the ‘wasteful’ fields of the capitalist countries who watched as the original communists shrivelled and fell. They still believe in the ‘Communist ideals’ which call for all property to be ‘communal’, that no-one should be able to choose if a property they have purchased should remain empty, or even to be able to choose to whom they either rent to, or sell that property to if they so desire.

People such as David Ireland, chief executive of the Empty Homes ‘charity’, which campaigns for vacant homes to be made available for those who need housing. “It will be shocking to ordinary people.” This clown believes that there should be no such thing as private property, and the ‘homeless’ should be allocated homes from whatever housing stock is unoccupied, for whatever reason, simply because it is ‘immoral’. Where does this clown get his audience from? The Guardian; where else!

 

44 Responses to “…………and whats mine is my own!”

  1. It is very interesting and worth discussing whyso many of the intelligentsia and the privileged admire/d Russia and China’s experiment with State Communism. Or even Hitler’s Germany.
    So many people who forgot that the freedoms and opportunities they themselves enjoyed were won by individuals and groups standing up for what they believed. Liberty for the people didn’t come as a “do it yourself” package one could buy in Argos or Ikea. Painful and costly steps were taken which by and large avoided the bloody carnage, torture and fear that was to distinguish those two great countries flirtation with imposed socialism.
    So why do some westerners admire this vicious and repressive attitude to ruling a nation? Is it some kind of guilt trip about their privileged backgrounds?

    We were talking the other day about the bishops wanting to see welfare reforms reversed, and I pointed out that the Bible in general and Jesus Christ specifically were not against people owning property or creating wealth. It is those educated or motivated people who are the wealth creators and want to do some good with it, that are able to change things. That is why totalitarians always target them first.

  2. //and I pointed out that the Bible in general and Jesus Christ specifically were not against people owning property or creating wealth.//

    Agit8ed, I think all you pointed out really was how you misunderstood the New Testament.

  3. Simply because it is ‘immoral’

    You think it moral that people are homeless while large swathes of property remain unoccupied?

  4. Polly Toynbee spends a lot of time at her Million pound Tuscany villa, maybe she is up for allowing tenants to occupy one of her other homes she owns.

    Thought not.

  5. Agit8ed, I think all you pointed out really was how you misunderstood the New Testament.

    Well my personal understanding seems to be in line with millions of other Christians across the world, at least regarding the fundamentals of the faith..
    But come on, please share your views on the New Testament.
    After your revelation that the real lesson of Genesis 18 has nothing to do with God’s impending judgment on the evils going on in Sodom and Gomorrah, and everything to do with the importance of hospitality,
    frankly I can’t wait.

  6. You think it moral that people are homeless while large swathes of property remain unoccupied?

    It’s neither moral nor immoral. The two aren’t linked in any way. No-one is homeless because some properties are empty.

  7. It’s neither moral nor immoral

    I disagree.

    There are many reasons for homelessness one of them being lack of affordable housing stock.

  8. You think it moral that people are homeless while large swathes of property remain unoccupied?

    Yes I do.
    Because it’s not as simple as you seem to imply.
    I would ask where all these homeless are coming from?
    Are they kids from broken, dysfunctional or violent homes?
    Are they people who have lost their jobs
    because of being laid off
    or because the unions kept calling them out on strike
    or because they were unreliable workers?
    Or immigrants who couldn’t get a job, but who were allowed into the country by a slimy Labour government with a secret agenda?
    or illegal immigrants who couldn’t get a job?
    The list goes on and on, and anyone with any sense would stop and say
    “Hold on, where are all these homeless people coming from, what are the causes and what can be done to reduce the numbers?”

    Simply stealing other people’s housing property to put the homeless in them is actually stealing and punishing those who have lawfully acquired possessions.
    No, I don’t go along with that at all.

  9. Because it’s not as simple as you seem to imply

    And what’s that I ‘imply?’

  10. Paul McMahon –

    There are many reasons for homelessness one of them being lack of affordable housing stock.

    So you’d punish property owners, in a particularly fascistic way, for problems which they’ve not made?

    By far the greatest elements in the cost of housing are caused – surprise surprise – by government.

    The single greatest cost element is simply the planning consent. Because the supply of development land very tightly controlled by the planning system, getting consent for development on land will cause the price of it to skyrocket. A good 80 per cent of the cost of a home is caused by the planning system in this way.

    Of course there’s then inflation, which raises property prices in the long term generally though which greatly benefits those who get the new money first (i.e. the special interests close to government and central banks).

    Look for solutions all you like, but you advocate a particularly nasty measure which won’t do much at all about homelessness and nothing at all to combat the original causes of high house prices.

  11. You think it moral that people are homeless while large swathes of property remain unoccupied?

    I think it’s immoral our government can send billions in fake ‘Aid’ and we still have homeless people on our own streets.

  12. And what’s that I ‘imply?’

    That in your view it is immoral that houses stand empty whilst people are homeless.
    Solution: somehow put the two things together
    presumably by in some way forcing the owners of the empty housing to allow the homeless to occupy it?

  13. Well said Harri and Pete.

  14. So you’d punish property owners, in a particularly fascistic way, for problems which they’ve not made?

    No because I didn’t actually say anything like that.

    What I’m questioning is the morality aspect of millions of properties lying useless while there are people with no roof over their heads.It’s private property and it’s at the owners disposal to do with it as the owner sees fit but is it moral to let people sleep in streets while there are unoccupied properties?

  15. The primary cause of homelessness in NYC, particularly among families, is lack of affordable housing. Homelessness is very high (and grew rapidly under Bloomberg) here but we don’t see “them” because there is a ‘shelter system’. In other US cities, you see more people on the streets and in tent cities but NY state has a ‘right to shelter’ law (it might be in the state consititution/can’t remember). That doesn’t mean people are provided with ‘homes’ necessarily…just that there are locations they can go to get out of the elements. It’s complicated…providing shelter is very different than providing housing. Is it a moral dilemma? Maybe on a personal level not so sure about the state’s ‘moral’ responsibility. What is too little and what is enough?

  16. Solution: somehow put the two things together
    presumably by in some way forcing the owners of the empty housing to allow the homeless to occupy it?

    I’m afraid you’re halucinating again

  17. mairin2
    Same problem.
    But it’s just the same as managing your own household affairs.
    From your income you decide what has to be paid, what ought to be paid and what you can afford to spend on food, light and heating.
    I know these things.
    I was unemployed for two years
    We had to make economies, meet obligations.
    I spent 13 years of my life in unpaid voluntary work.
    No home of my own.
    No car
    No insurances
    No clothes budget
    No savings etc etc.
    I made choices and I accepted the consequences of the choices I made.

    Governments have to do the same,
    Do they control immigration, clamp down on babies being born to increase welfare payments, limit children to one per couple?
    Or do they say,
    “No, people must be free to do what they choose, and damn the consequences! We’ll just build more houses with borrowed money on prime agricultural land, we’ll increase welfare benefits using borrowed money, we’ll allow anyone and everyone to come and live here!!”

  18. I’m afraid you’re hallucinating again

    YOU insisted to Pete Moore it was a moral issue. If it’s a moral issue then presumably you think something should be done about it, else why bring it up?

  19. If it’s a moral issue then presumably you think something should be done about it, else why bring it up?

    Because it’s the penultimate line of Mike Cunningham’s thread?

    Sheeeesh.

  20. It’s not just about budgeting. NYC is extremely expensive (from food to housing to heating, etc) but there is a plethora of low-paying jobs (mostly related to tourism and the service industry). A lot of people lost their jobs or had hours cut–and couldn’t afford their rent so they were evicted. (Domestic violence and overcrowding are other reasons–families doubling, tripling up in apt’s.) In the past, there was a rent-subsidy program because rents are so high (particularly for households with children) and a subsidy program designed to shift the homeless from shelters into apartments. Those programs are gone/cut beyond recognition. Like I said, it’s complicated. I know people who have managed to survive homelessness and now have homes…but it wasn’t easy and their plight wasn’t voluntary.

  21. Because it’s the penultimate line of Mike Cunningham’s thread?

    And then you said to Pete Moore,

    What I’m questioning is the morality aspect of millions of properties lying useless while there are people with no roof over their heads.It’s private property and it’s at the owners disposal to do with it as the owner sees fit but is it moral to let people sleep in streets while there are unoccupied properties?

    So you must have thoughts on it!
    You asked the question..

  22. Of course I have thoughts on it, I’m asking people’s opinions as to if it’s moral to let people sleep in streets while there are unoccupied properties?

    Solution: somehow put the two things together
    presumably by in some way forcing the owners of the empty housing to allow the homeless to occupy it?

    As usual you were too quick off the mark in pushing your assumption as the truth.

  23. Okay,
    so what’s your thoughts and do they contain any solutions?

  24. IMHO I consider it to be immoral and no, I don’t have any solutions.

  25. IMHO I consider it to be immoral and no, I don’t have any solutions.

    Well what use are you then?
    You are the same as a hand wringing bishop or ‘do gooder’ who ‘cares’ but has no answers.

  26. I would stop all fake foriegn ‘aid’ with immediate affect, and spend every single brass penny on building more social housing.

  27. Well what use are you then?
    You are the same as a hand wringing bishop or ‘do gooder’ who ‘cares’ but has no answers.

    You’ve got a mighty high opinion of yourself. Your arrogance in attempting to tell people who or what they can comment on is breathtaking.

    I’m glad that there’s people like you who have the expert knowlege to resolve everything you rant on.

  28. I used to do a lot of volunteer work in the NYC shelters…not so much lately due to health-related issues. I have extra rooms in my house…2 with comfy beds. I’m an empty-nester so it was a moral dilemma for me. It tore at me to see young mothers with babies suffering in the shelter system. And a pope or two ago said it was our moral responsibility to resolve the homeless issue. But bring the homeless (strangers) home with me (and I’m not talking about the coconuts)? To be honest, the deciding factor was the loo situation…I couldn’t bring myself to offer up my bathroom. That sounds silly, I know but I’m a bit of a germaphobe and privacy is a very touchy issue for me. So maybe I was just looking for an excuse but I couldn’t get past it. So I did what I could in other ways. Am I immoral? Who here would take home a homeless person? Should someone I know well become homeless, I wouldn’t think twice but a stranger???…there’s too many variables/too much risk.

  29. Am I immoral?

    No, as a matter of fact Mairin I think you are the polar opposite.

    Who here would take home a homeless person? Should someone I know well become homeless, I wouldn’t think twice but a stranger???…there’s too many variables/too much risk

    It’s one thing to invite a homeless stranger into your home and another entirely different thing to house the homeñless in unoccupied properties.

  30. mairin2, on February 24th, 2014 at 9:13 PM Said:

    I used to do a lot of volunteer work in the NYC shelters…not so much lately due to health-related issues

    You have my admiration.

  31. Harri, there were some scary situations but I also enjoyed it. I met a lot of nice people. The end result was helping foster a ‘sistership’ between one of the homeless organizations and a women’s based resource group in the corporation I work for…so they don’t really need me anymore 🙂
    Paul, there is a rather large unoccupied building near my house formerly occupied by nuns when they worked in NYC’s catholic hospitals (which don’t really exist anymore) and housed a religious publisher (nuns did the bulk of the work). I’m not sure which Catholic group owns it but they applied to house homeless in it. The neighborhood it tooth and nail down because their plans included housing former convicts and drug users. The neighborhood already has a ‘transition’ house and a home for domestic violence victimes as well as a few homes transformed into housing for the disabled. The building is quite large and sits unoccupied. It was very poor planning on the part of the owners. I’m sure if they presented a plan for seniors or even families, there wouldn’t have been such an outrage. It’s an eyesore. It is falling into disrepair to the extent that it will be beyond rehab. The fire dept is regularly called there (not sure why–the electric is still on to prevent vandalism so there may be some issues with it). It’s a horrible waste in this city where there is such a huge homeless problem. But I can understand why homeowners said ‘not in my neighborhood’. If I win the lottery I will buy it for low-income seniors 🙂

  32. should say ‘the neighborhood homeowners fought it tooth and nail”…rats!

  33. If I win the lottery I will buy it for low-income seniors

    Unfortunately, people like you never win the lottery 🙁

  34. mairin

    This might be of some interest to you.

    http://www.mungos.org/homelessness/history

  35. You’ve got a mighty high opinion of yourself. Your arrogance in attempting to tell people who or what they can comment on is breathtaking.

    I’m glad that there’s people like you who have the expert knowlege to resolve everything you rant on.

    Not true at all. I stated my thoughts at 8:12pm. I’m not saying I am completely right, but you are saying nothing.
    Not like you at all!

  36. I’m saying that it’s my opinion that having people living on the streets in all weathers while there are millions of unoccupied properties is immoral. That’s all, I don’t have solutions to the problem nor never claimed to have.

    Not true at all. I stated my thoughts at 8:12pm

    What you stated at 8.12 was a self indulgent rant about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and single mothers and welfare recipients. Little if anything about the homeless much less suggestions of solutions to the problem that you castigate others for not having.

    I’m not saying I am completely right

    Good, that’s a nice change.

    Mairin, that building sounds ideal for affordable housing units for homeless families.

  37. It’s more or less a dormitory…single-room occupancy, which is why I thought seniors. Family housing would require a lot of rehab and reconfiguring to make ‘homes-like homes’. No matter how you look at it, it’s a horrible waste and really could be a beautiful building with amazing views and off-street parking. But like I said…it’s almost beyond rehab and probably a decent tax write-off. I’m guessing if the new court building takes off, it may become office space for lawyeres and the like.
    Harri, thanks for the link. If I lived in London, no doubt I’d work with a group like that!

  38. ‘home-like apartments’…I give up…my fingers type faster than my mind works…or is that vice versa??? Good night!

  39. Paul,
    pretend then that my ‘rant’ was that of a republican/sinn fein sympathiser in a pub explaining why he had made various personal sacrifices for the cause… 🙂

    Then in comes you and asks everyone whether they think it’s moral that the Unionists have tied Northern Ireland to Great Britain rather than the Republic?

    You don’t think it’s moral, but you don’t know what the solution is….

  40. ps
    By way of explanation my rant was about living with the consequences of my decisions…
    A little different from bootstraps and pullups.

  41. Paul,
    pretend then that my ‘rant’ was that of a republican/sinn fein sympathiser in a pub explaining why he had made various personal sacrifices for the cause… 🙂
    Then in comes you and asks everyone whether they think it’s moral that the Unionists have tied Northern Ireland to Great Britain rather than the Republic?

    Not only was it an indulgent rant which didn’t include any facet on homelessness much less a solution but now you’ve gone for your usual smoke and mirrors of introducing a completely irrelevant and unrelated subject to the conversation when you can’t think of anything to say. Methinks it’s better to practice the Mark Twain quote about staying silent when you’ve nothing to say.

    Stop sniffing glue Agi it does you no good.

    I do have a solution for the Six Counties problem though . . . .

  42. “Not only was it an indulgent rant which didn’t include any facet on homelessness much less a solution”

    But it’s just the same as managing your own household affairs.
    From your income you decide what has to be paid, what ought to be paid and what you can afford to spend on food, light and heating.

    Governments have to do the same,
    Do they control immigration, clamp down on babies being born to increase welfare payments, limit children to one per couple?
    Or do they say,
    “No, people must be free to do what they choose, and damn the consequences! We’ll just build more houses with borrowed money on prime agricultural land, we’ll increase welfare benefits using borrowed money, we’ll allow anyone and everyone to come and live here!!”

    There’s a link there Paul. Can you see what it is yet?
    Here’s a clue. Just like individual households, governments have to make decisions about priorities..

  43. for lawyeres and the like

    Now, those parasites do deserve to be homeless, they are only one rung of hate away from the bankers.

  44. There’s a link there Paul. Can you see what it is yet?

    No, what has homelessness got to do with immigrants and single mums? As a matter of fact you don’t even mention the homeless in your diatribe.

    Here’s a clue. Just like individual households, governments have to make decisions about priorities.

    Yeah, ‘cos being homeless is just like managing a household budget. Here’s an even bigger clue:

    There are many reasons for homelessness one of them being lack of affordable housing stock.

    Harri, that’s an interesting proposal yesterday about foreign aid and one which I could probably subscribe to.