28 2 mins 8 yrs

The people of the UK to the polls on 22nd May to vote in the European Parliament elections. The UK Independence Party is unique insofar it has clear agenda of REMOVING the UK from the EU and I suggest to you it will do very well indeed. This means that the status quo may be challenged and a cosy EU consensus disturbed. Hence stories like this are to be expected as we approach the day of the poll…

UKIP leader Nigel Farage has defended a poster campaign claiming millions of Europeans are after British jobs as “a hard-hitting reflection of reality”. The posters – with messages including a warning British workers are “hit hard by unlimited cheap labour” – come ahead of May’s European elections. UKIP leader Nigel Farage will launch UKIP’s campaign for the European and local elections later in Sheffield. Labour MP Mike Gapes attacked the UKIP posters as “racist”.

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“Racist”? Eh? Which “race” is being targeted then..the WHITE race?

The Lib/Lab/Consensus know that a drubbing is coming and this is all about throwing mud in the desperate hope that some may stick. Nigel Farage will be painted as a demon in the weeks ahead but I for one wish UKIP well. I don’t agree with all their policies BUT they offer a little hope.

 

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28 thoughts on “OPERATION – GET UKIP

  1. What?

    You David, as a free marketeer, are suppoerting a party which condemns the principal of the ‘productive class’ bying the cheapest form of labour on the open market?

    Surely some mistake?

    Besides IF UKIP’s claims are true surely it’s the fault of the greedy capatilist class rather than the proles?

    This just about sums it up:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HMhWB95ldQ

  2. Paul,
    As a Republican you must also be a nationalist. You believe in a united Ireland. Supposing the Chinese or the Poles or the Indians offered to send you skilled mechanics, scientists, technicians, doctors etc in such quantities that your wages bill would not only halve, those cut price workers would never strike either.
    So the government of your country said “Good deal, bring it on!” and employers were free to employ as many of these cheap skilled workers as they wanted. After five years the economy has been transformed, thanks to the skills of Indian doctors and surgeons the health service is now one of the best in the world. Because business is booming the State can afford generous benefits to those priced out of a job or unable to get a job.
    Question: would it still be Ireland?

  3. The proles were always capitalists, Paul.

    EU policy says that Britons have no more right to live and work in their homeland than 480 million foreigners. Westminster’s rules ensure that we must hand over so much of our wealth in social benefits that many of those foreigners are attracted here.

    This is purely the work of the parasite classes in London and Brussels. No doubt some business parasites are happy to lobby for cheap labour, from building sites to au pairs to cleaners and fancy restaurants, but none of these really benefit the average Briton that much.

  4. At least one of the posters is xenophobic and all of them are targeting the racist vote. The BNP must be kicking themselves because Farage has very cleverly stolen their act (they turned up at the UKIP launch today and were moved on by the police).

    If I was a Brit expat working in Europe I would be feeling very uncomfortable today. The bad news is that UKIP is a lot tougher to beat than the BNP but the good news is they can be beaten. They are also not as anti establishment as they like to claim. They have been troughing themselves like there’s no tomorrow in the European Parliament for years and Farage has had substantial personal donations from the tax avoiding Barclay brothers, owners of the Daily Telegraph.

    My own view is that their support has probably reached its high water mark. They always do well in European elections and then get away with not doing much because nobody notices what goes on over there. Their problem will be the more people they get elected at local level, the more voters will start to notice how revolting they actually are. This is what happened to the BNP in Bent when they lost all of their council seats in 2010.

    Today was the day UKIP stopped pretending they were decent.

  5. So the government of your country said “Good deal, bring it on!” and employers were free to employ as many of these cheap skilled workers as they wanted

    But then the problem would be with the, (presumably native), greedy employers who would exploit those who would supposedly work for a lower wage than the natives wouldn’t it?

    This is purely the work of the parasite classes in London and Brussels. No doubt some business parasites are happy to lobby for cheap labour, from building sites to au pairs to cleaners and fancy restaurants, but none of these really benefit the average Briton that much

    You are arguing that governemnt should intercede to restrict the flow of services being sold on the open market at the best price to the buyer?

    How very libertarian of you.

  6. Yes Paul, I am advocating that and I am a libertarian. Unrestricted immigration is not a libertarian totem. In fact many liberatrians recognise that unrestricted immigration is a threat to our liberties. Always and everywhere it leads to the loss of liberties as power elites use the presence of large numbers of immigrants to extent their control.

    You’d like an example? The presence of many foreigners in Briton is the explicit reason why our freedom of speech has been restricted via laws regarding what we can say about religions, races, the language we can use and so on. You might think such laws are desirable, but they are a restriction on our liberties and came about only as a consquence of the mass importation of aliens. Also, more and more of our wealth has been confiscated to benefit incomers, whether it’s for direct social benefit payments, to hire translators or to build community centres for some such ‘community’.

    Well I don’t accept my liberties being proscribed and if that means that many fewer immigrants are allowed, then so be it.

  7. Paul – as an Irish ‘nationalist’, is it the case that anybody who gets to Ireland is as Irish as anybody else? How many people in the world could be or become Irish?

  8. That’s fine Pete but it’s just another example of how your libertarian rhetoric desintegrates when the Union Flag is unfolded.

    Don’t talk cobblers Allan. I (and the Irish Constitution) said that any person born on the island of Ireland is Irish, (even those million or so in the North that like to think of themselves as British). And, it stated this before Alan Shatter etc please don’t go off on one an evil Joooos international conspiracy.

  9. So Paul – no child born of two Irish parents in Huddersfield can consider him/herself ‘Irish’? Conversely, a niglet born in Cork of two Nigerians is as Irish as Sean Kelly or Stephen Roche?

  10. No child born of two Irish parents in Huddersfield can consider him/herself ‘Irish’?

    Of course it can, what ever gave you the idea that bacause anyone born on the island of Ireland is Irish one not born on the island isn’t?

    Niglet? Classy.

    Yes.

  11. Paul,
    I agree, and the same goes for a lad born to Muslim parents living in Belfast. I think even if a person wants to become Irish, it takes a few generations before they would be accepted as such, and if they didn’t want to, they would remain Muslim or Chinese or English people living in Ireland..

  12. Paul McMahon –

    That’s fine Pete but it’s just another example of how your libertarian rhetoric desintegrates when the Union Flag is unfolded.

    Let me try again. Limited immigration sits well within the orbit of libertarian dogma. No libertarian (or anarcho-capitalist, which more accurately descibes me) tears up any credentials by advocating restricted immigration.

  13. I agree

    You agree with what? that it was the fault of the greedy native employer as opposed to the employee?

    I don’t understand the rest of your comment as I thought your point was about skilled workers and wages?

    Let me try again. Limited immigration sits well within the orbit of libertarian dogma. No libertarian (or anarcho-capitalist, which more accurately descibes me) tears up any credentials by advocating restricted immigration

    How can advocating state intervention in the free market to limit the choice of buying a service at the lowest price not be contradictory to ‘anarcho – capatilism’?

  14. But then the problem would be with the, (presumably native), greedy employers who would exploit those who would supposedly work for a lower wage than the natives wouldn’t it?

    No, the fault would be with the government for letting it happen (as I said on the other thread.) The point is that if a country allows cheap labour from overseas to come and live and work and become citizedns, the long term effect will be that the country will eventually lose its identity; whether it be Irish, English or anywhere else. The cost of cheap foreign labour is an inevitable loss of national identity, loss of sovereignty and the potential for civic unrest in the future.

  15. Let what happen? That they didn’t restrict employment rights to certain individuals?

    I heard the ‘cheap labour’ argument also levelled against Irish workers in England in the seventies & eighties.

    Maybe you’d prefer if the government legislated for an overall minimum wage which would give British workers a level playing field against these foreigners supposedly under cutting them?

    Or would that just be government interfering again?

  16. Paul McMahon –

    “How can advocating state intervention …”

    Did I advocate state intervention?

    I advocate limited immigration, which would necessarily happen in an anarcho-capitalist society because all property would be private and contain none of the so-called ‘public’ areas where conflict always and inevitably arises between between indigenous and immigrant people. At root, the conflict comes down to how looted tax moneys are distributed via welfare benefits, schools, health services and so on, all those places where the state is supreme and where the existence of the state always and everywhere cause conflict, or where immigrants and indigenous peoples conflict on the streets. Anarcho-capitalism doesn’t allow for looting and so none of the conflict arises.

    That’s just one school of thought, and clearly debate here in these circles is well outside the mental straightjacket which most people have around their minds. Immigration can be limited by property rights and natural economic means, not just by the state. I don’t introduce discussions like this on ATW because most people would be bewildered here, incapable as many are of imagining a way of life and social order outside of that which they’ve experienced themselves.

    This is in addition to what I mentioned above, that libertarians/minarchists have long recognised that immigration always bolsters the power and reach of power elits and the parasite classes, so it’s entirely legitimate to restrict it.

  17. Did I advocate state intervention?

    Yes.

    You are arguing that governemnt should intercede to restrict the flow of services being sold on the open market at the best price to the buyer?

    Yes Paul, I am advocating that and I am a libertarian

    The rest of your comment is hypothetical libertarian rhetoric which disappears when nationalism in introduced into the equation.

  18. Paul –

    My ideal society is unlikely to rise soon. The very best I can hope for in the meantime is a state restriction on immigration. I’d prefer other ways.

    In the way you sometmes remind me that I wasn’t living in West Belfast 40 years ago (and therefore don’t know), you’re hardly familiar with libertarian rhetoric.

  19. I don’t introduce discussions like this on ATW because most people would be bewildered here, incapable as many are of imagining a way of life and social order outside of that which they’ve experienced themselves.

    That’s a bit pompous Pete.
    Have YOU experienced it?
    If you haven’t, you can only offer it as an untried hypothetical, not a libertarian certainty..

  20. // all property would be private and contain none of the so-called ‘public’ areas where conflict always and inevitably arises between between indigenous and immigrant people.//

    But why mention Johnny Fereigner (sp?)? – it would also just as effectively restrict migration within the fair isle of Britain – no more get-on-yer-bike and go look for a job, no more Dick Whittingtons and their cats or that young actor setting out from Stratford to seek his fortune in London, if everywhere they went they were subject to private property rights and tolls and charges for the use of roads or even the wayside to sleep on.

    That would be a worse nightmare than almost any totalitarian state. Nothing would be free, nothing available for everyman or the poor or the young without cash; no more carefree rambling through the Cotswolds for Pete Moore.

    Communist East Germany at least only stopped internal migration to their capital Berlin. Maybe another generation or two and they’d have realised your utopia.

  21. Agit8ed –

    I have experienced it, each time I’ve tried to expain something to you or Phantom.

    Noel Cunningham –

    You think roads and transport are free now? Really?

  22. Hang on

    Noel –

    no more carefree rambling through the Cotswolds for Pete Moore.

    But all ramblers ramble through mainly private property now. Even those national parks are overwhelmingly private property.

  23. My ideal society is unlikely to rise soon. The very best I can hope for in the meantime is a state restriction on immigration. I’d prefer other ways

    Yet another example of calling for state intervention.

    In the way you sometmes remind me that I wasn’t living in West Belfast 40 years ago (and therefore don’t know), you’re hardly familiar with libertarian rhetoric

    Believe me, as someone who was involved in the anarch – punk thing for years I’ve heard more than my share of libertarian rhetoric.

    You might enjoy this film of those who walked the walk as well as talking the talk.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQ1CvwF7BQ

    Pete, you’re obvoiusly an intelligent fella but you haven’t thought this one through mate.

  24. Paul McMahon –

    With repect to anarcho-punk bands, we’re hardly talkng the premier of anarcho thinking.

    But if you’re imbued with that, why are you suddenly going on about the minimum wage?

  25. Exclusively private property and its arbitrary use (and what use is private property if we can’t use it arbitrarily) and chaos have a lot in common.

    Read Michael Kohlhaas by Kleist for a description of how one leads to the other and how both lead to injustice and murder.

  26. With repect to anarcho-punk bands, we’re hardly talkng the premier of anarcho thinking

    No? Penny Rimbaud makes a lot of sense but it also got me into reading things like the letters of letters of Sacco & Vanzetti, the CNT and the Spanish Civil War and wider anarchist philosophical reading.

    But if you’re imbued with that, why are you suddenly going on about the minimum wage?

    Because that was in my late teens and twenties, I’m now in my mid forties. Perceptions, opinions and attitudes change.

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