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and what say the brave Black nations? Send your aid and charity cash; and your soldiers!

By Mike Cunningham On May 18th, 2014

I note that Nigeria’s President Goodluck Jonathan, (perhaps his mother should have chosen a Christian name less prone to fortune or chance) has cancelled a visit to the village from where all those schoolgirls were abducted some weeks ago. His security men were worried that the road to the village passes through an area largely controlled and patrolled by the Muslim bandits of Boko Haram, and they decided that they could not guarantee the safety of their leader.

Surely a further indictment of this corrupt and crime-laden country, which is possibly the wealthiest of all Africa, with oil and gas reserves totalling billions, is that the only Army it can field is so afraid of contact with a well-armed and –motivated group of terrorists that some opened fire on the commander who is ordering them to move against the Boko Haram terror fighters.

So all the so-called African leaders are heading to Paris, and will be asking the British, the French and the Americans to help in their battle against a determined and disciplined rebel force. I hold no liking for the Muslim bandits of either Africa or the blood-soaked sands of Arabia, but one thing which must be agreed of these savages is the fact that they believe in their cause; no matter how blood-soaked it becomes! The corruptions which have crippled Nigeria’s attempts to even govern itself are but typical of the mindset of the Black nations of Africa, who, once ‘freed’ by ‘Independence’ from the allegedly ‘despotic’ regimes of the Colonial West, decided to enrich themselves and their lackeys, as we have seen time and time again, from Zimbabwe to South Africa, from the Ivory Coast to Kenya, they are all at the trough, Black leaders driving in their limousines past the shacks of those who once hoped for better times; and then, when the bullets commence flying, seek the white man’s help to dig them out of the cess-pit they have helped construct after their ‘Freedom from the White Man’!

 

86 Responses to “and what say the brave Black nations? Send your aid and charity cash; and your soldiers!”

  1. We could say much the same about our lot and those in Brussels when it comes to corruption.

    But as to:
    “So all the so-called African leaders are heading to Paris, and will be asking the British, the French and the Americans to help in their battle against a determined and disciplined rebel force. ”

    The code words, “Foxtrot Oscar” should be used and we should let them get on with it. Not my country, not my problem. Our soldiers, those that we have not yet made redundant so we could send African countries and their dictators our money, should be kept at home for ‘our’ defence, and not used as foreign mercenaries.

    Being an independent nation comes with responsibilities, and I would say that the leaders of African and other tin-pot states don’t seem to be taking them too seriously.

    To repeat. Not my country, not my problem ! OK !

  2. Personally I welcome the decision to tackle the problem of Boko Haram. Either these nations will destroy the threat or Boko Haram will destroy their countries. No doubt at all that these people bring forth only death and misery wherever they go. They are part of an emerging threat around the world and unless the free world starts dealing with them they will overwhelm us.
    Should we be involved? I think at some point we will have to be, although I agree with Mark’s points.

  3. ” Either these nations will destroy the threat or Boko Haram will destroy their countries.”

    As most of the modern African countries have been at some time in their past, members of one or another of the various European ’empires’, and that most have pleaded for, and attained self governance, they have proved that they learned nothing from the years of comparative stability their membership afforded.

    Surely, as any parent knows, there comes a time when a recalcitrant offspring must take responsibility for their own actions – or as in this case, inaction. Time for them to learn how to clean up their own mess.

    As for ‘being an emerging threat around the world’, – it could also be said that our own government has more than a few lessons to be learned as to providing protection for their own nation, without further spreading our diminishing military around the globe protecting those that seem to despise us and treat us as fools! especially as it seems we could increasingly put them to good use here at ‘home’.

  4. We can help with imtel and that, but Africa needs to stand up , be a man, and be self reliant..

    The West played no part in the creation of this.

    Nigeria has a military, let them prove that it can fight.

  5. Africa is not our fight, but it may become part of it once the ball starts rolling.

  6. Agreed on all points Ernest.
    I seriously think we are going to face the same kind of problems here, and when you think about it, it really wouldn’t be that difficult to launch an organised , lightning and violent attack on either one key target; Whitehall say, or wherever the Queen is. It could be done and a carefully chosen target coupled with an attack on communications could bring this country to its knees.
    In general I don’t think we should interfere in other country’s disputes except where they threaten our own interests, we shouldn’t try imposing our own way of life on others and having been kicked out of Africa we shouldn’t hurry to go back in. That said, if we don’t help them in as minimalist way as possible, Africa might fall to a serious perversion of Islam, and we would then be facing a far greater threat.

  7. Kidnapping, hostage taking, and forced conversions have been part of Islam since Day One.

    This isn’t a perversion of anything.

  8. Phantom,
    Islam has not been a major/serious threat to the West since their last major expansion into Europe. Sure they fought amongst themselves, but the Islamic nations were dormant and backwards looking.
    I suppose only since the establishment of a Jewish State (however it came about) has Arab nationalism been on the rise and has given way to these extremist groups who in one sense are a true perversion of Islam, in that they are not really interested in the religion as much as they are the subjugation of all to the will of Allah.

  9. It was spread by the sword since year one.

    The same sword that is on the flag of Saudi Arabia

    They’re proud of it

  10. 15 of the 19 9/11 muslim ‘Terrorists’ were all from Saudi Arabia.

    The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia. The others were from the UAE (2), Egypt and Lebanon. The hijackers were organized into four teams, each led by a pilot-trained hijacker with four “muscle hijackers” who were trained to help subdue the pilots, passengers, and crew.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks

    Why was Saudi Arabia not punished?

  11. Harri,
    Because Saudi Arabia has oil
    Because they have invested heavily into Western nations
    including the military and air industries, and by doing so have ensured themselves major influence and concessions for their brand of Islam…

  12. Phantom your 2:20pm
    The fact remains that for a long time they were not a threat to the West.

  13. Yes because they were in the colonized, ignorant, and powerless. And over there.

  14. You would think that after selling much of our oil and gas supply to Russia and the consequences of the subsequent castration of our ability to put any pressure or take any retaliatory action against them when they don’t comply with international consensus, – you would think that the ‘penny would drop’ on the advisability of selling or allowing any control of any part of our industrial infrastructure to so-called global entities.

    But no! – stupid is a s stupid does! – as the Pfizer/Astrozeneca morass is proving.

    I wonder if there would have been such a resurgence of Islam if the oil supply had not been so vital to the West.

    I still have the mental image of a sheik while shopping, complete with entourage in Harrods, of him slipping behind some drapes to relieve himself. No-one said a word…

  15. Absolutely.
    The reality was that Islam had run out of steam and run out of vigour and was unable to resist Western civilisation’s power both economic and military.
    Now the West has lost its foundations and Islam is on the rise. Not economically, nor scientifically, nor ethically; but by violence.

  16. Ernest,
    Money leaks speaks volumes…

  17. I am by no means an expert in the affairs of African Nations, but if there happens to be some sort of military action by the West in Africa, may I suggest that a strike on Nigeria’s communcation systems, it might not stop Boko Haram, but it will reduce World wide fraud by about 95% 😉

  18. Agit8ed, on May 18th, 2014 at 2:58 PM Said:

    Absolutely.
    The reality was that Islam had run out of steam and run out of vigour and was unable to resist Western civilisation’s power both economic and military.

    I think Islam also happened to run out of morals in about the 1st century, and mananaged to lose just about all of it’s marbles in the 21st century.

  19. Surely a further indictment of this corrupt and crime-laden country, which is possibly the wealthiest of all Africa, [ ], is that the only Army it can field is so afraid of contact with a well-armed and –motivated group of terrorists that some opened fire on the commander who is ordering them to move against the Boko Haram terror fighters

    I’d be a bit more humble with the smugness there Ernest, for more than a decade the only way the British Army could travel around south Armagh was in the air.

    On the subject itself; if these young girls can be located why can’t a specialist unit of soldiers be dropped in to rescue them? If there can be billions poured into Afghanistan & Iraq surely a humanitarian rescue mission isn’t beyond the means of some of the most sophisticated and best equipped armies in the world?

  20. I’d be a bit more humble with the smugness there Ernest

    Apologies, it should have read Mike.

  21. Well, I think Nigeria should learn how the West beat terrorism in Afghanistan, Iraq and Northern Ireland.

  22. Yes.
    There’s nothing can beat a troupe of black faced Morris Men when their blood’s up…

    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45984000/jpg/_45984696_morrismen2.jpg

    Paul,

    I’d be a bit more humble with the smugness there Ernest, for more than a decade the only way the British Army could travel around south Armagh was in the air.

    Was that because there were so many IRA Brigades that there wasn’t space to land, or because there was no one to trust on the ground??
    The British Army weren’t there to subjugate the people, they were there to keep the peace between the communities.

  23. It was because of a number of factors, amongst others:

    South Armagh is largely rural with many many places to land. The IRA were also able to attack in open countryside largely without the fear of causing civillian causualities.

    South Armagh is a staunchly Republican due to the fact that it was cut off from it’s natural hinterland of north Louth by an invisible line arbitrarily drawn in 1921 so yes, there were very very few on the ground who would welcome the BA.

    The South Armagh Brigade of the IRA were one of the most ingenious, effective and proficient IRA brigades.

    The British Army weren’t there to subjugate the people, they were there to keep the peace between the communities

    That opinion was no doubt formed by that propoganda machine television in your living room in Britain.

  24. All of which tells me Paul that you for one aren’t going to forget; that you think the IRA/Sinn Fein were somehow morally superior in the way they did their killing, and you still harbour grudges.

    I stick up for the British Army because they are an integral part of my country, and whilst having done things for which they should be brought to book, I ain’t going to be lectured on the subject by some guy who supported a side that engaged in shooting people in the back, blowing up shoppers and carrying out kneecappings, punishment beatings and God knows what else.
    No Sir!
    The Republican goals might be understandable, but the way they went about achieving them stank. For the innocents and uninvolved on both sides I have respect and even admiration. But for the guys who killed, the guys who dragged off mothers in front of their children I have nothing but contempt.

  25. The British Army weren’t there to subjugate the people, they were there to keep the peace between the communities

    I rarely, if ever comment on NI past troubles, I have no experiance to be honest apart from being caught up in a ‘Bomb scare’ in a BHS store in London with an ex-girlfreind many moons ago, it was terrifying.

    But I used to have a very close freind (no longer with us sadly for his freinds and family) and he was a Para and served a few tours during the trubles in Belfast, and although he had a very troubled mind, he used to tell stories of how himself and his fellow soldiers used to absolutely terrorize civies, in fact, the way he explained the situation, it was see as some kind of sport.

    One example is, kicking in backdoors of houses in the back allys and destroying the entire contents. He might have been telling a load of BS for all I know, but he seeemed quite genuine about it all.

    Another, going in mob handed to pubs which were IRA frequented and marching suspects out, gun in mouth, and giving them a good pasting just for the hell of it.

    Setting fire to any cars which belonged to possible suspects.

    The list was quite long, but I cant remember anymore at the moment.

  26. Then again, Shit happens in war.

  27. Harri,
    That was very helpful.
    In my own experience i have met soldiers who served in Northern Ireland and were met with kindness or hostility in equal measure. Soldiers who were helped by Catholic (Traitors I suppose some would call them)
    I acknowledge that there were bad things done. I don’t deny it.
    My question is,

    “Did Sinn Fein/IRA think the way they conducted their campaigns and tactics used were morally superior to the conduct and methods of the British Army?”

    Because if Paul or anyone thinks they were, it’s imv a lie.
    If he thinks they were on a par or worse, why say,

    “I’d be a bit more humble with the smugness there Ernest, for more than a decade the only way the British Army could travel around south Armagh was in the air.”

    and,
    “The South Armagh Brigade of the IRA were one of the most ingenious, effective and proficient IRA brigades.”??

  28. Good comment at 5.22 Agit8ed – very similar to my own feelings on the topic.

  29. p.s Paul’s comment at 3.42 was incorrectly attributed to me – he corrected it in a later comment as being intended for Mike.

  30. All of which tells me Paul that you for one aren’t going to forget; that you think the IRA/Sinn Fein were somehow morally superior in the way they did their killing, and you still harbour grudges.

    I ain’t going to be lectured on the subject by some guy who supported a side that engaged in shooting people in the back, blowing up shoppers and carrying out kneecappings, punishment beatings and God knows what else.

    Hold on a second Agit, you’re not getting away with that.

    The only person to have brought moral superiority into the equation here was you. Likewise, I haven’t tried to lecture anyone on anything, you asked me a number of questions and I gave you a number of answers. Get off the offended mantel, if you don’t like the answers don’t ask the questions.

    Let me make this absolutely and perfectly clear: the IRA did some absolutely horrific and inhuman things which I have no problem whatsoever in condemning in the strongest terms and that’s not some ‘if they have done things which they shouldn’t they should be brought to book’ wishy washy nonsense and neither is it some absolutist ‘I stick up for the British Army because they are an integral part of my country’

    When unjustifiable things are done they must be condemned.

    But, the IRA were absolutely correct in the central principle of taking up arms against what were seen as occupiers. That point I will never condemn

    You for one aren’t going to forget

    Absolutely I’m not. Even if I wanted to how and why should I?

  31. My apologies for butting in, this is not my argument. My Para friend never forgot either, in fact, it absolutely destroyed him in the end.

    He might have left NI, but it sure as hell did not leave him.

  32. No apology needed on my behalf Harri. Indeed it’s refreshing to hear a warts and all soldier’s perspective.

    The conflict in NI was squalid, vindictive and dirty, many people were affected by it not least many of the soldiers who served there.

    No one came out of the mess that the NI connflict was with clean hands.

  33. Paul McMahon, on May 18th, 2014 at 3:42 PM Said:
    I’d be a bit more humble with the smugness there Ernest, for more than a decade the only way the British Army could travel around south Armagh was in the air.

    Whoooooosh

    And just like that another thread gets derailed.

  34. I’d be a bit more humble with the smugness there Ernest, for more than a decade the only way the British Army could travel around south Armagh was in the air.

    On the subject itself; if these young girls can be located why can’t a specialist unit of soldiers be dropped in to rescue them? If there can be billions poured into Afghanistan & Iraq surely a humanitarian rescue mission isn’t beyond the means of some of the most sophisticated and best equipped armies in the world?

    You obviously have trouble reading English Allan.

  35. Don’t forget that those who served in NI had the choice to opt out.

  36. mairin2,

    If you are referring to the British Army, most of those serving were National Servicemen backed up by regulars

  37. Most of those serving were National Servicemen backed up by regulars

    In NI? that is arguably the singlemost incorrect statement out of many many incorrect statements that I have heard about the NI conflict.

    If you truly believe that Ernest I dread to think how far off the mark you are with other NI opinions.

  38. You’re wrong, Ernest. They always had the option to not serve. They chose to serve knowing the deal. That’s not to say they shouldn’t have been killed. But at the end of the day, they signed on and knew the deal.

  39. I also met a former Para who told similar stories as related by Harri (and what he told of the RUC was identical to IRA propaganda). However, I think such incidents were most common early on in the Troubles, when the British soldiers were facing a situation they had never encountered before, that they had not been trained for and that they couldn’t respond to the way they responded in, say, Malaysia or Aden.
    As time went on, such occurrences became rarer, even if they never totally disappeared.

    I think also no-one can deny that the British certainly behaved no worse than other armies would in the circumstances. The problem was not the nature of British soldiers or the IRA; it was the particular political set-up of Northern Ireland and that London chose to let it all continue until it was too late.

  40. But, the IRA were absolutely correct in the central principle of taking up arms against what were seen as occupiers. That point I will never condemn

    I don’t want to get away with anything Paul.
    I have no problem with the aims of the Republican cause.
    I have no problem with the Irish wanting the British out of Ireland.
    It’s the METHODS and TACTICS used by the IRA and SANCTIONED by Sinn Fein I have a problem with.
    And it’s no good using past injustices/excesses/cruelties inflicted by the English as an excuse for employing those methods in order to secure their goals.
    I will repeat, people who bang on about what the British did are assuming a position of moral awareness by judging those actions. Therefore by condemning the British and the British Army, they imply that they themselves are/know better.
    Yet the conduct of the IRA and the way they shot people in the back, etc etc etc, shows that in fact they behaved as badly, if not worse.

  41. I don’t want to get away with anything Paul

    Good then don’t comment on my supposed views on ‘moral superiority’ which you know nothing of or ask my questions and feign offence about me ‘lecturing’ you when I answer the questions that you asked.

    It’s the METHODS and TACTICS used by the IRA and SANCTIONED by Sinn Fein I have a problem with.
    And it’s no good using past injustices/excesses/cruelties inflicted by the English as an excuse for employing those methods in order to secure their goals

    Perhaps you missed this part in my previous comment?

    Let me make this absolutely and perfectly clear: the IRA did some absolutely horrific and inhuman things which I have no problem whatsoever in condemning in the strongest terms and that’s not some ‘if they have done things which they shouldn’t they should be brought to book’ wishy washy nonsense and neither is it some absolutist ‘I stick up for the British Army because they are an integral part of my country’

  42. mairin2 –

    “They always had the option to not serve. They chose to serve knowing the deal. That’s not to say they shouldn’t have been killed. But at the end of the day, they signed on and knew the deal.”

    While true in itself, what’s the conclusion? Something’s left unsaid there. Screw’em?

    It’s a statement which applies to all in volunteer forces. Those thousands of American men and women who were killed, injured, maimed and mentally destroyed in Iraq and Afghanistan, well they always had the option not to sign up. They chose it knowing the deal. That’s not to say they shouldn’t have been harmed, but at the end of the day they knew what they were opting for. So screw’em?

    I suppose theference is, American casualties willingly signed up to be occupiers, while British soldiers never were occupiers in NI.

  43. Paul McMahon –

    “But, the IRA were absolutely correct in the central principle of taking up arms against what were seen as occupiers. That point I will never condemn”

    Well as they say, one man’s occupier is another man’s immigrant, but you absolutely oppose (say) people demonstrating against what they see as occupiers in Britain.

    It’s a funny old world.

  44. I’m not a republican. I don’t condone what the IRA did…what the BA did was dispicable. The BA soldiers chose to go there knowing what they were doing and they knew they might lose their livese. At the end of the day, they should have said NO.

  45. I got this from the BBC
    “Initially, the troops were welcomed by Protestants and Catholics and were viewed as protection against sectarian attacks. Soldiers were served tea and toast when they arrived in the Catholic Falls Road area of west Belfast.

    But that soon changed. Within a few years, many Protestants came to view the army as their protectors against the Provisional IRA’s violent campaign to force Northern Ireland out of the United Kingdom.

    Many Catholics began to see the army as an oppressive force supporting unionist rule.

    The key catalyst for this change in perception was the killing of 13 Catholic civilians by members of the Parachute Regiment in Londonderry on 30 January 1972.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/topics/troubles_security_forces

  46. The BA soldiers chose to go there knowing what they were doing and they knew they might lose their livese. At the end of the day, they should have said NO.

    That’s what we Britiah call mutiny! The British Army obeys orders from the government of the day. It doesn’t pick and choose, else how could the government and indirectly the country rely on them?

  47. Perhaps you missed this part in my previous comment?

    No, I didn’t miss it. I will say it again, I have never had a problem with the Republicans wanting a united Ireland. In fact, it makes a lot of sense. BUT the methods used by the IRA and sanctioned by Sinn Fein

    even against their own people

    were shameful, and I personally see nothing to be proud about in their methods.

    I have worked with Irish Catholics who had Republican sympathies, yet hated -and feared- the people who fought for that “noble cause.”

    And lastly, the very fact that there are plenty of Irish people North and South, living and working happily here on the mainland shows how short their memories are regarding ‘the evil and oppressive English.’
    Or maybe, more likely, they recognised that ordinary English folk are nowhere near the monsters they had been led to believe they were.

  48. Mairin2,

    National Servicemen most certainly did serve in Northern Ireland until conscription finished in 1960, the last being demobbed in 1963. I have two cousins who served in NI in that era.

    How involved they might have been in the troubles – I admit I don’t know, so you are correct in saying they were all ‘regulars’, – but they still didn’t have any choice over where they served, if that’s where you were posted, that’s where you served.

  49. mairin2 –

    I’m not a republican. I don’t condone what the IRA did…what the BA did was dispicable.

    You sound like a republican. On the whole, what the BA did was try to suppress an insurrection in a part of the UK. It was deployed in the UK. It didn’t invade anywhere, and many Catholics were happy to see them for a while.

    The BA soldiers chose to go there knowing what they were doing and they knew they might lose their livese. At the end of the day, they should have said NO.

    And as I’ve said, that applies to all in a volunteer force, including the Americans who freely chose to become the invaders and occupiers of Iraq and Afghanistan, so screw them too, yes?

  50. I also met a former Para who told similar stories as related by Harri

    Noel, the Paras were animals but there were some exceptions. My experience with the BA but were invariably negative but sometimes base humanity won the day.

    I was walking along Lenadoon Ave in West Belfast on a fine Sunday morning in June 1988 with a copy of this:

    http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Struggle-Provisional-BANNED-Ireland/dp/B000OIKO6I

    Lenadoon Ave is a straight road for maybe half a mile and coming in my opposite direction was a foot patrol of eight British soldiers.

    It was a situation where I couldn’t turn away as it would have been too suspicious so I decided to walk on and chance getting past them without getting stopped so I went on.

    Sure enough I was stopped by a soldier who was about 25 and when I saw the wings on his arm my heart sank. He asked my name and put it through the radio which was normal P (personality) check procedure and began searching me while he waited for the confirmation to come back and sure enough he found the book.

    The soldier snarls at me ‘fucking Freedom Struggle eh’ and starts pushing me around at which an older soldier, probably in his late thirties, with sargeant stripes and obvioulsy the boss comes over and asks what’s happening. The younger soldier says ‘here’s a fucking Freedom Struggle for you Sarge’

    The older soldier says to me ‘so, do you like this sort of thing?’ and I, thinking I’m goning to get a kicking anyway, decide to throw caution to the wind and answer ‘yeah, I like reading’ and the sargeant replies ‘I like reading too’ and starts telling me why Stephen King was his favourire author.

    The confirmation that I’d given my correct name comes through and the sargeant looks me squarely in the eyes and says

    ‘So, do you agree with the IRA?’

    To which I reply

    ‘Yes, I agree with their objectives’

    The sargeant pauses for about two seconds and says

    ‘I can understand that’ here’s your book. Go home son.

  51. Yes, A8, that happened.
    But every soldier who went there chose to. They chose to because they chose to ‘fight’ against the Irish.
    Why?

  52. You obviously have trouble reading English Allan.

    Paul – no trouble at all, and I even understand it. As I see from above, the matter of discussion is NI which means that my earlier comment (based on one of yours)

    Whoooooosh

    And just like that another thread gets derailed.

    is quite appropriate.

  53. You constantly seperate yourslef from the Irish…Planters want you there…the Irish don’t.

  54. But every soldier who went there chose to. They chose to because they chose to ‘fight’ against the Irish.

    Oh bullshit.

  55. Are you saying you didn’t have a choice Pete? I mean when you were a soldier…could you say no? and if not why not?

  56. mairin2,

    “But every soldier who went there chose to”

    No they didn’t! they went where they wre sent.

  57. Well as they say, one man’s occupier is another man’s immigrant

    When immigrants are kicking your front doors in, wrecking your house and pointing high velocity assault weapons at you come back and speak to me.

    The key catalyst for this change in perception was the killing of 13 Catholic civilians by members of the Parachute Regiment in Londonderry on 30 January 1972.

    No mention of the Paras shooting dead eleven innocent civillians (including a Priest) over two days the year before in ’71 in Ballymarphy or putting the Falls under military curfew the year before that in 1970 then?

  58. Whoooooosh
    And just like that another thread gets derailed.
    is quite appropriate.

    Except of course that it’s not as the point that you’re speakingg of was a minor factor in my wider original comment.

  59. mairin2,

    “But every soldier who went there chose to”

    Can the American marines get to choose not to go to Iraq or Afghanistan?

  60. When immigrants are kicking your front doors in, wrecking your house and pointing high velocity assault weapons at you come back and speak to me.

    That’s what the drug and people smugglers are doing on our southern border to the people who live along it, and the Democrats want to give them citizenship for it.

  61. They didn’t go there becaue they were sent…they could always opt out. Pete can tell you thie. Every man that went to Norhtern Ireland chose to.

  62. When immigrants are kicking your front doors in, wrecking your house and pointing high velocity assault weapons at you come back and speak to me.

    Yeah, or causing most crime, committing rapes and murders, systematically targetting young British girls via drugs for sex and rape, getting laws onto the books which proscribe our liberties, taking as much of our money whoch the government can give them, declaring parts of British towns no-go-zones to Britons, patrolling them and confiscating alcohol and abusing women who aren’t dressed to their liking, seeking to take over schools for islamic purposes.

    In other words, acting like colonisers who own the place.

    See Paul, one man’s occupier is really just another’s immigrant.

  63. thie=this

  64. Pete. what the British soldiers did will never be forgiven by the world. Too many people saw it.

  65. Yes, A8, that happened.
    But every soldier who went there chose to. They chose to because they chose to ‘fight’ against the Irish.
    Why?

    Mairin2
    You’ve got that totally wrong.
    Look at that BBC link about the troubles and see that British troops were pulled from all over the place to Northern Ireland.
    When you sign on in the army, US/Canadian/Australian/British whatever, you DON’T get to choose where you will serve. If you decide NOT to go then you either do a runner (go AWOL) or face a charge or possibly courts martial.
    You sign up, you OBEY, end of.

  66. mairin2 –

    See if you can be the first New Yorker who doesn’t duck a straight question in here.

    They didn’t go there becaue they were sent…they could always opt out.

    So those thousands of American men and women who chose to invade and occupy Iraq and Afghanistan (which unlike NI to the UK, are foreign to the US) and paid heavily for it, screw them too yes?

  67. Apples & oranges Pete.

    Still, it’s nice to see that you’re comparing your beloved BA with the criminal acts that you mention above.

  68. Comparing economic migration to military occupation is a special kind of crazy; and I’d add quite insulting to the colonised and brutalised.

  69. Nothing of the sort, Paul.

    I’m close to a couple of BA bases and the soldiers who live off base. They’re a much better class of neighbour than immigrants.

  70. Paul — Our Pete has a great grá for the coercive arm of the British state.

  71. Maybe those American marines went to Iraq voluntarily to rid the world of Saddams weapons of mass destruction … uh oh, hold on a minute.

  72. Well Petrkin!!
    Good to see you again.
    All is well I trust?

  73. mairin2,

    ‘what the British soldiers did will never be forgiven by the world. Too many people saw it”

    Likewise for the things the IRA did, just as aggresive and even more reprehansive than anything British soldiers did, the ‘world’ wil remember them as well.

  74. Why don’t we re-label British troops as ‘immigrants’ and send them en masse to NI. I’m sure that would resolve the problem for Paul and Petr.

  75. I’m close to a couple of BA bases and the soldiers who live off base. They’re a much better class of neighbour than immigrants

    Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one then won’t we?

    Likewise for the things the IRA did, just as aggresive and even more reprehansive than anything British soldiers did, the ‘world’ wil remember them as well

    You think so? I wonder how Bobby Sands as opposed to say Margaret Thatcher is remembered internationally.

  76. Really, Ernest? Please tell us how the British soldiers did the right thing. Please tell us how the British soldiers protected the Irish people?? They didn’t. The soldiers themselves won’t confront the Iriah people. They were wrong.

  77. //what the British soldiers did will never be forgiven by the world.//

    Come off it, mairin. Armies in such situations do such things. It was the political mess in NI that was the problem, and the politicians in London that allowed and financed it.
    It’s total nonsense to say the soldiers went there voluntarily. BA soldiers were also in places like Germany and Gibraltar in the 70s and 80s – rather more attractive prospects that locked up in barracks most of the time and being a walking target for snipers the rest. Notwithstanding its pleasant green landscape, the soliders would never have chosen to serve in NI and, as far as I am aware, they all hated it.

    It’s also a bit odd hearing an American complain of British army crimes in Ireland. There were certainly such crimes, but they were all at least a generation ago; and they were certainly not nearly as bad as the crimes your country’s soliders committed in Iraq alone – cold-blooded murder of families in non-conflict situations, rapes, murder of prisoners etc, all of which were just a few years ago. And those are just the ones we accidentally found out about.

  78. = prospects than being locked

  79. Agie — I am keeping well, thanks. Hope you and your good wife are also doing well.

    What to know where Allan and Pete’s brand on online hatred leads?

    http://www.memetuludag.net/an-open-letter-to-the-people-of-dublin-15-castleknock-blanchardstown/

  80. mairin2,

    I never said they ‘did the right thing’, I said that terrorist and the military will be remembered alike for the atrocities they committed. Even so, I doubt that they will be quite so well remembered as you would wish or imagine.

    Each side has its own idea of what was right or wrong, I might have been more sympathetic to your cause if your terrorists had restricted their attacks to government targets rather than just declaring indiscriminate war on all and sundry.

    In hindsight they probably set their cause further back than would otherwise have been the case.

  81. Petr – if it’s so bad, perhaps Memet should go home and leave Ireland to the Irish.

  82. god here we go again….. ok all together now

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM

  83. I’ve always been a Brits out sorts of person. The soldiers never belonged there. The soldiers that arrived should have been smart enough not to arrive there …they should have done their homework like Pete did. They weren’t wantedd. They should have made the same choice that Pete made…NO.

  84. crap…I hate iPad.

  85. completely off topic, but better than the road your walking on now, wrap your mind around this interview.

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2014/05/were-at-greater-risk-q-a-with-general-keith-alexander.html

    there’s enough in it to have us babbling at each other for a week

  86. Petrkin.
    Re your link,
    http://www.memetuludag.net/an-open-letter-to-the-people-of-dublin-15-castleknock-blanchardstown/

    “I am a worker, a trade union member of Unite the Union, I fight for workers rights…

    I am an anti-war activist, I reject wars that destroy nations and kill millions…

    I am a man and I stand beside women and defend their rights, in every aspect of life…

    I fight against racism… I have worked for many years for a racism free society.

    I defend freedom…

    I am a migrant…

    Among many things, I defend the right to housing, the right to proper healthcare and education and I want ordinary people to have a better life… Not just barely get by.

    Whatever I bring into anything in everyday life, is a combination of all of the above. I want to understand the world but I also want to change it the better. I want to use my position to advance the fight of people before profit, not to be the elected hero. Indeed, elections may not change anything radically but I want to make sure that the electoral platform is not left to austerity champions as if nothing has happened in this country.”

    Sorry I didn’t respond earlier, but I always take your stuff seriously, and today I have the time to send my thoughts.
    This man sounds like a real mensch, a man of courage and integrity fighting his corner. Probably the sort of guy one would be pleased to have as a friend.
    No one should be ill treated simply because they are different /foreign / intelligent /dumb or small and misshapen.

    But reading your man’s letter he is simply highlighting what I believe is inevitable.
    People are afraid of that or those who are different. It disturbs their world
    and potentially threatens their security or world view.
    The history of immigration has always involved caution, clashes, leading either to serious long term hostility or eventual reconciliation.

    You are I believe an internationalist, whereas I am a nationalist. I believe in respecting all peoples and their cultures, but I don’t believe by mixing them all up (as in multiculturalism) we arrive at international peace and harmony.
    I am not against immigration, but I believe that in recent years especially it has become out of hand and unsustainable leading to economic and social distortions with implications for state security and cultural integrity.
    I would rather that as much as possible people stay in their own lands, trade and interact and assist each other where necessary (disaster aid and development, joint projects)
    So whilst I admire this chap and his principled stand, he is getting the same treatment as the British got in Northern Ireland and as evidenced regularly on this blog… 😉
    I well understand the concerns of those who have carried out these insulting attacks and whilst rejecting any such behaviour, I would say that as is happening in the UK now, fear of newcomers and what it might mean for the future, remains.