19 2 mins 7 yrs

There have been alot of reports of Yes campaigners (thems the ones who want out of the UK) in Scotland being abusive and violent towards No campaigners. The Telegraph reports what are just the latest of many such stories, with prominent businessmen who signed a publicly published letter receiving death threats, No posters being vandalised and a partially sighted pensioner being punched in the face by a Yes supporter.

That’s the reception they save for English visitors.


Now I’m down in the great and ancient Kingdom of Wessex, not up there, and I know the press (which overwhelmingly supports the No campaign) can paint a false picture, but these reports have been coming in for a long time and I’ve heard (obviously sane) callers to BBC 5Live recount their brushes with threats and intimidation.

Whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow, the relationship with Scotland will change, and it will be partly coloured by what seems to have become a bitter campaign in some areas. The many reports will have been noted across the UK, and alot of people won’t be minded to be too helpful if the Jocks need bailing out one day, or call for the Barnett Formula to be renewed.

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  1. and alot of people won’t be minded to too helpful if the Jocks need bailing out one day,

    Pete – that implies that the hollowed-out Englisgh economy with its gigantic record-breaking trade deficits would be bailing out Scotland. I doubt it. Anyway, here are the real possibilities of a Scotland which could escape the money cartel:

    Would Scottish Independence Mean Economic Sovereignty?

    The People of Scotland have an opportunity to extricate themselves from the socio-psychopathic global corporatists and the temple of outrageous and excessive abject materialism. However, it is not going to be an easy ride . . . .
    If Alex Salmond and the SNP [Scottish National Party] are serious about keeping the Pound Stirling as the Currency of Scotland, there will be no independence. Likewise if Scotland embraces the Euro, Scotland will rapidly become a vassel state of the Euro-Federalists, who will asset strip the nation in the same way that, Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain have been stripped of their entire national wealth and much of their national identity.

    England has been stripped of its wealth and its national identity. It can’t be denied any more.

  2. Allan@Aberdeen –

    If Scotland were to become a truly independent land, where state borrowing is banned, taxes and state spending were minimal and a place where the riff-raff is kept out then I’d paint my face blue and move up.

    But that ain’t on offer.

    All that Salmond proposes is the same as now, except he gets all the power instead of sharing it with Westminster.

    Taxes and spending will rise, Scotland will have the Euro and it will again be suzerein to the EU and IMF. You know that’s guaranteed. You know that no independence is on offer.

    In a few years time everyone up there, if the Yes votes win, will ask why they bothered.

  3. Pete – Salmond is going to have to apply to join the EU thanks to Spain, and he’ll be asked why he wanted power retrieved from Westminster only to be handed back to Brussels. Then there will be a ‘no’ vote.
    Away from the usurious banking system, money will be created for investment, and that is much more sustainable than the money-as-debt system which has destroyed England.

  4. England is destroyed?

    I will be there next week.

    Should I cancel the reservations, if the place is all ruined?

  5. The opinion polls are saying 52-48 in favour of no. I think the margin will be bigger, maybe 57-43, because the polls have underestimated the no vote. Why? Because some no voters prefer to say they are “don’t knows” because of a fear of being on the “wrong” side of the divide.

    The worst possible result would be 51-49 in favour of yes. That would mean that a major change has been achieved by a tiny majority, and would leave a worse legacy of division than a similar margin against change.

  6. Phantom – your bubble is doing nicely. So is mine, but I know that I’m in a bubble. Away from that bubble, places which I visit as the industrial remnant of the once-mighty English engineering sector are no longer collapsing – they are rubble. Great Yarmouth, Hartlepool, Newcastle, Peterborough – all imploded as industry can no longer sustain them. And the trade deficit is how much?

  7. If ” no ” wins, I hope that we don’t see bitter recriminations and accusations of insufficient patriotism ..

  8. because it’s come this far…doesn’t Scotland win either way? (might have been discussed before; haven’t been able to read all the threads/comments lately).

  9. Mairin

    Yes, “devo-max” will look very like independence.

    A similar strategy was followed in Quebec after it voted 51-49 to stay with Canada. It killed the independence movement, and a similar outcome can be expected in Scotland.

  10. doesn’t Scotland win either way?

    Scottish politicians win either way. As respects the people, time will tell.

    I trust local politicians even less than I trust ” national ” politicians.

  11. The incompetence of the Unionist campaign has led to far too many promises of preferential treatment for Scotland as a last minute effort to win the day. The Barnett formula is something even the Scottish parliament has acknowledged is unfair and the West Lothian question is now a real problem.

  12. Ah, yes, Pete and Ross, when a political argument gets tense. it isn’t long before we hear complaints of – seemingly always – the other party using violence.

  13. It will be fine, whatever the outcome.

    We’re talking about civilized people who respect the democratic process.

    If it’s a no vote, there could very well be another referendum a few years down the line that strongly favors independence. Or vice-versa.

    At the end of the day, Great Britain will be fine and so will Scotland. The two are tightly connected through strong bonds of a shared border, family ties and centauries of common history.

  14. This article is well worth a read, to get the US perspective:

    This is a matter for Scotland, not US neo-cons.

  15. What Daphne said.

    David Frum is a Canadian as much as he is an American.

    And even if he were 100 pct American, he most certainly would not have – the – American point of view. He is negative on independence, and I don’t think that this negatuvity on the matter is widespread among Americans or their givernment.

    To the extent their is a US consensus, it is positive toward the UK, to England and to Scotland. We’d expect you guys to sort it out in a spirit of partnership, as other countries have done when they moved the political lines. Norway and Sweden”s peaceful separation and continued friendship afterward would be a decent enough example to follow.

    Good luck Scotland. Get out there and vote.

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