88 1 min 6 yrs

LESS THAN 48 hours after a Germanwings A320 crashed in the French Alps, and we have an explanation. It was the first officer who did it, locking the cockpit door and taking her down.

But nine months later, there’s still no word on MH17?

Here’s an idea – get whoever’s been working on the Germanwings investigation onto the MH17 case pronto.

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88 thoughts on “THAT WAS QUICK

  1. But nine months later, there’s still no word on MH17?

    The Jews did it….. That is your running theory on everything. It’s the Jews or the Americans working off commands from the Jews.

  2. Insofar as I understand Pete the conclusion was reached after listening to the ‘black box’. I don’t think any were found in the wake of MH 17

  3. I read that the passengers were aware of the troubles at the cockpit. So far, no reports of mobile phone calls from the doomed plane. Maybe the European system isn’t as advanced in 2015 as the US system was in 2001.

  4. I see that officially it’s not suicide, but mass murder; akin to someone going into a school room or cinema and killing everyone, then turning the gun on themselves.

  5. There was wreckage? Usually there is none because the graound ‘swallows’ the plane, as does the sea nowadays.

  6. If the cockpit door is found it may provide conclusive evidence that the deadlock was in place, which would have been done by the co-pilot after the pilot left the cockpit.

  7. depending on which of the reenforced doors is on the aircraft over 90% lock automatically.

    It is part of the reason that on american carriers there are always 2 people in rhe cockpit. If one of the pilots leaves a flight attendant goes in.

  8. Maybe the reason there were no mobile calls was because everyone was frozen with fear and disbelief watching the captain hammering on the door and shouting to be let in.
    When I heard the reports early this morning, I too gaped in stunned incredulity.

  9. “Cockpit security systems are supposed to allow a pilot the ability to access the cockpit. But access can be deliberately denied from within the cockpit.

    Cockpit doors on an Airbus – according to this video understood to have been produced by the company – have three modes that are operated from the pilots’ seats: unlock, normal, lock. In the event of whoever is in the cockpit being incapacitated there is a touchpad that will allow cabin crew who know the code to enter.

    In “normal” mode the cockpit is locked but can be accessed – after a 30-second delay – by touchpad should the cabin crew get no response from inside. “Unlocked” mode is what a pilot would use to open the door for a colleague returning from the toilet. “Locked” means the locking mechanism ignores the touchpad entry code and remains locked for five minutes (it can be repeated). It’s easy to see how this would be used to prevent hijackers who have managed to get hold of the code from cabin crew from entering the cockpit.”

    Link here

  10. Bernard, on March 26th, 2015 at 8:51 PM Said:
    Maybe the reason there were no mobile calls was because everyone was frozen with fear and disbelief watching the captain hammering on the door and shouting to be let in.

    Bernard – there were no mobile phone calls because there is no connectivity over about 12,000ft, and I tested it myself several times including a flight from Barcelona. It just shows how advanced the US system was in 2001, Todd Beamer and all that……..bullshit

  11. Peter god forbid I would never argue with an article from a magazine. I mean what do I know it was only my business for over 16yrs. 10 of which were after 9/11.

    I can attest to certain things do I know 100% what every Lufthansa aircraft has equipped? No of course not. I did work with Lufthansa during that time and I am quit familiar with their security.

    If it makes you feel better that the copilot locked the door rather than the door locking automatically fine. It’s a mute point…. but you run with it. Either way the copilot on the 320 also had to disable several other automated systems that are part of that planes design to do what he did.

    I’m not going to discuss them because what is the point? The guy flew the plane deliberately into the side of a mountain. What interests me more is was it suicide for the sake of suicide, or was it terrorism?

    What was the copilots name? what was his background? what were his political ties?

  12. //If the cockpit door is found it may provide conclusive evidence that the deadlock was in place//

    I think it’s already pretty clear at this stage that the main pilot was deliberately locked out.

    The only real questions left as far as I can see is
    – why a well trained and professional (co)pilot decided to crash his plane and
    – what can be done to prevent this happening again.

    I mentioned a few days ago that it’s going to get real scary if suicide-by-plane-crash gets fashionable. This has happened before, although never with a large plane in Europe.
    If a pilot is determined to crash his plane, it’s going to be difficult to stop him. Having a flight attendant step in when one of the pilots leaves the cabin will hardly be enough, as the suicidal pilot could well overpower or kill him or her.

    I think what’s going to have to be introduced is some kind of electronic blocking system that prevents the pilot flying in a way that could damage or endanger the aircraft, similar to the electronic systems in cars that prevent the driver driving too close to vehicles in front or from accidentally changing lanes, etc.

  13. Peter god forbid I would never argue with an article from a magazine.

    The article I posted contained a link to a video by Airbus, explaining exactly how the cockpit door is operated. Presumably as the manufacturer they would know?

  14. – what can be done to prevent this happening again.

    Nothing.

    On 9/11, hundreds of passengers did what government told them to do: they sat still and were murdered.

    So tamper-proof doors were installed after 9/11 to protect pilots, and a tamper roof door protected the first officer as he crashed the plane.

    The quest for perfect security is a fool’s errand. There’s no such thing. Today the BBC was full of talking heads jabbering on about re-introducing a third officer. Tomorrow it’ll be another idea. But human activity is so varied that a madman will get around all of them.

  15. I have to get on a plane next Thursday so thanks everyone.

    The quest for perfect security is a fool’s errand

    That’s true however a third member in the cockpit seems to be the most preventative option.

  16. Paul McMahon, on March 26th, 2015 at 9:28 PM Said:
    Do I see the strands of another ‘theory’ coming together Allan?

    Yes – the ‘theory’ is that jews control the Fed. Oops – that’s not a theory: it’s a fact.

    As for the plane crash, has there ever been a crash inquiry in which bits of info/disinfo were given to the press before the airline which lost the plane was aware and could comment? This is happening now and it is quite bizarre.

    Jean-Francois Rosnoblet and Tim Hepher — Reuters March 26, 2015

    A French gendarme helicopter flies over the crash site of an Airbus A320, near Seyne-les-Alpes, March 25, 2015. REUTERS/Emmanuel Foudrot.

    Cockpit voice recordings from the German jet that crashed in the Alps showed one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not get back in before the plane went down, killing everyone onboard, the New York Times reported.

    Investigators were studying the voice recordings from one of the “black boxes” for answers on Thursday while the search continued for a second black box.

    “The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” an unnamed investigator told the Times, citing the recordings. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

    “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down,” the investigator added.

    A spokesman for Lufthansa (LHAG.DE), whose budget arm Germanwings operated the flight, said the carrier was aware of the Times story, adding: “We have no information from the authorities that confirms this report and we are seeking more information. We will not take part in speculation on the causes of the crash.”

  17. yeah Peter they put real information out for the public so that everyone can view the security protocols.

    Did they send a copy to any potential terrorists, or just put the “exact” information out there so you would feel secure?

    Like I said, yeah ok you run with it…. maybe Allan can help you.

    The Flaw in Airline Security is internal Security. Protecting the plane from those that work on or in the plane is the hardest piece of the puzzle. Whether the door locks automatically or it doesn’t is a mute point. If Johnny Jihad is loading the plane or behind the stick.

    The occasional mental breakdown adds even more color to the equation.

  18. A spokesman for Lufthansa (LHAG.DE), whose budget arm Germanwings operated the flight, said the carrier was aware of the Times story, adding: “We have no information from the authorities that confirms this report and we are seeking more information. We will not take part in speculation on the causes of the crash.”

    Breakdown in communication?

    Leak from investigators?

  19. Leak from investigators?

    Maybe we could get some leaks on MH17? Maybe not – there’s a non-disclosure agreement covering Ukraine, Australia, Holland, Belgium and Malaysia. Obviously there’s something which must not be made public.

  20. Obviously there’s something which must not be made public

    Why not tell us what you think that is Allan?

    So no ‘theory’ forming on Germanwings then?

  21. Paul – we have been told that Russia shot down MH17. If Russia did, and it would fit with the ‘narrative’ then why not make it public? It is quite straightforward and doesn’t require ‘theory’. Why do you think that the MH17 investigation is not providing a result?

    As for the ‘theory’ of Germanwings, I reckon that jews control the Fed. Oh – they really do control the Fed, and the banks, and Hollywood, and even the Ivy League:

    Who Controls the Ivy League?

  22. yeah Peter they put real information out for the public so that everyone can view the security protocols.

    Yeah Troll, whatever.

  23. You’ve probably all gone to bed now, but there’s government talk about too many people are flying these days because air fares have become too cheap!!
    Bloody good job they are as well.
    When you consider the logistics of running an airline and all the various personnel involved in getting you from A→B, it’s a wonder how they can do it.

    Here’s how our ripoff train service compares:

    Edinburgh to Bristol — £167. 7 hours.

    Edinburgh to Bristol by Easy Jet — £30. Just over an hour.

    Clearly, the government has more vested interest in trains than airliners.

  24. The only real questions left as far as I can see is
    – why a well trained and professional (co)pilot decided to crash his plane and
    – what can be done to prevent this happening again.

    Why can’t airlines seize control of doomed jets from the ground? The technology exists but pilots and companies refuse to use it
    Technology that might have averted Alps tragedy has existed for years but has been resisted by aviation industry
    ‘Uninterruptible autopilot system’ would allow ground controllers to activate mode that cannot be turned off on jet
    But support has stalled amid fears of dangers of eliminating pilots and possibilities of so-called cyber-hijacks

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013858/Why-t-airlines-seize-control-doomed-jets-ground-technology-exists-pilots-companies-refuse-use-it.html#ixzz3VZf9TJgV

  25. //Why can’t airlines seize control of doomed jets from the ground?//

    Harri, that wouldn’t have helped in this case, as it was only afterwards than controllers realised the plane had crashed.

    But, as I said above, mandatory blocking systems that prevent the aircraft being flown in relation to external objects in any way that would endanger it.
    Cars already have similar technology.

    It would have prevented 9-11 and this crash. It will be with us soon. Remember who told you first. 🙂

  26. But, as I said above, mandatory blocking systems that prevent the aircraft being flown in relation to external objects in any way that would endanger it.
    Cars already have similar technology.

    My wife’s car is only a couple of years old, and it is supposed to have all this wonderful safety technology, front and rear cameras, sensors, etcetera … going by all the dings, dents and bumps, it obviously does not work very well 😉

  27. //front and rear cameras, sensors, etcetera//

    Harri, I wasn’t talking about cameras and sensors and stuff, which of course don’t prevent accidents, as your dear wife will know.

    But the latest cars have systems that interrupt the driver’s operation of the car. They stop the car being driven too close to a vehicle in front. If you leave a long gap in front and someone pulls into your lane ahead of you, your car will be braked until the mandatory distance is again maintained. Similarly, you physically can’t cross a lane until you’ve put out the indicator and only when that lane is safe to enter (no Porsche bombing up from behind).

    It sounds like a pain in the ass for the driver of course, but if similar systems were in place in planes, 9-11 and the Alps crash wouldn’t have happened.
    A hijacker or a nutter simply couldn’t crash, or even divert, a plane. He could at most fly it around until it runs out of fuel, as probably happed with flight MH370.

  28. <blockquoteHere’s how our ripoff train service compares:
    Edinburgh to Bristol — £167. 7 hours.
    Edinburgh to Bristol by Easy Jet — £30. Just over an hour.

    At least you can be rest assured what the train driver won’t crash it into a mountain.

  29. From today’s newspapers, the tabloids state that he did it, he was depressed, he was suicidal, stuff was ‘found’ etc. Jerry Springer has been appointed as Chairman of the Crash Investigation.

  30. Paul McMahon, on March 26th, 2015 at 9:58 PM Said:

    The quest for perfect security is a fool’s errand

    That’s true however a third member in the cockpit seems to be the most preventative option.

    Nope. The suicidal pilot just incapacitates the third member of the crew and still locks the cabin door.

  31. It’s interesting that the technology is already in place to fly planes, (well Airbus, I’m not sure about the others), remotely from another location. The planes themselves even have the computing power to automatically land without pilot intervention. I’m surprised that pilotless airplanes aren’t being more enthusiastically pursued.
    It wouldn’t have help in this case though as the plane had already crashed before air traffic control realised what was happening.

  32. The quest for perfect security is a fool’s errand

    This morning I was at a meeting and the message for the day is: Perfection is not attainable but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.

  33. Peter don’t take it personal, just take it. 🙂

    Any film the public can see about the security capabilities of the cockpit door is an advertising fiction. As just a simple matter of security you actually believe that information would be offered up on a silver platter?

    This nutter committed suicide taking a plane load of people with him. As with a mass shooting you can’t really stop crazy. People sometimes just go off taking themselves out and as many others as they can with them.

    The only thing anyone can do about it is just pray that your not there when it happens.

  34. Phantom, on March 27th, 2015 at 2:14 PM Said:
    Allan

    Have you concocted a theory on this yet?

    No – not enough reliable data yet, but the Jerry-Springerist media leakage is absurd and certainly deliberate.

    Phantom – do you have a theory as to why the MH17 inquiry is releasing no conclusion?

  35. Nope. The suicidal pilot just incapacitates the third member of the crew and still locks the cabin door

    I said it seemed to be the most preventative option Dave not that it was fool proof or perfect.

  36. I’m surprised that pilotless airplanes aren’t being more enthusiastically pursued.

    Cargo planes will soon be pilotless. Passengers might take a bit more persuading. In any case, an Airbus is pilotless in a sense. Computers do so much that a pilot is just a back up.

  37. Paul McMahon, on March 27th, 2015 at 5:56 PM Said:

    I said it seemed to be the most preventative option Dave not that it was fool proof or perfect.

    I never said you did Paul and I see and, (to a degree) accept your point. However, I don’t think another crew member would make hardly any difference. I think it would be easy for the suicidal pilot to incapacitate the third crew member.
    I think if a person wants to cash in their chips, and take innocent people with them, there is sadly not a lot we can do to prevent it. There are just too many permutations they can use to achieve their goal.

  38. This morning I was at a meeting and the message for the day is: Perfection is not attainable but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.

    Thanks mairin2, you’ve just reminded me why I ditched the corporate rat race for a job outdoors. Everyone would have caught my howls of laughter in that meeting room, followed by me walking out. Which I did a few times when I saw that bugger all on the agenda had anything to do with me.

    People would actually sit through two hour meetings simply because they’d been invited, without saying a peep because nothing happened which affected them. It’d drive me insane.

    (If anyone wants to know how to prep and chair a meeting, just ask. I was very good at it.)

  39. Pete Moore, on March 27th, 2015 at 6:27 PM Said:

    Cargo planes will soon be pilotless. Passengers might take a bit more persuading. In any case, an Airbus is pilotless in a sense. Computers do so much that a pilot is just a back up.

    The next five years will be interesting. I work in the IT industry and I’m interested in technological developments and follow them regularly. There will certainly be some interesting advances in robotics and computer controlled transport in the near future.
    As you pointed out, several companies are actively pursuing pilotless cargo delivery in the next few years. And I’m afraid the days are numbered for fighter pilots.

  40. Pete Moore, on March 27th, 2015 at 6:32 PM Said:

    Thanks mairin2, you’ve just reminded me why I ditched the corporate rat race for a job outdoors.

    If you don’t mind me asking Pete, what job outdoors do you do?

  41. I don’t think another crew member would make hardly any difference. I think it would be easy for the suicidal pilot to incapacitate the third crew member.

    I’m not so sure Dave. If a pilot wants to take his own life and mass murder a plane load of passengers in the process he’d have to overpower a member of the crew to do so. People literally fighting for their life usually muster up untapped reserves of strength and energy.

    It would certainly give me more peace of mind.

  42. Dave Alton –

    No problem.

    I have two jobs. I work with a mate who has a fencing and landscape gardening firm, and I’m also a HGV driver. Doing one or both were stopgaps when I couldn’t stand office life anymore, but I’ve been juggling both for a few years now. They still feel like stopgaps while I decide what I want to do when I grow up, but I enjoy them and they pay the bills.

    The idea of sitting at a desk again all day fills me with dread. Whatever else I might so, I can’t do that.

  43. Paul McMahon, on March 27th, 2015 at 6:46 PM Said:

    I’m not so sure Dave. If a pilot wants to take his own life and mass murder a plane load of passengers in the process he’d have to overpower a member of the crew to do so. People literally fighting for their life usually muster up untapped reserves of strength and energy.

    It would certainly give me more peace of mind.

    Fair enough Paul. I’m not sure that the airlines would go for it though. The extra expense of another crew member, (to cover a thankfully, rare possibility) when they actually want less pilots seems unlikely.
    Perhaps I have a bias on the overpowering of a crew member because I, (being 6″3, stocky and strongly built), could overpower many people.

  44. Pete Moore, on March 27th, 2015 at 6:53 PM Said:

    I have two jobs. I work with a mate who has a fencing and landscape gardening firm, and I’m also a HGV driver. Doing one or both were stopgaps when I couldn’t stand office life anymore, but I’ve been juggling both for a few years now. They still feel like stopgaps while I decide what I want to do when I grow up, but I enjoy them and they pay the bills.

    Thanks for that Pete.
    It’s interesting, I think I’ve reached the same point you did. I love my work, (software design and development), but hate working in an office. For the last eleven years I’ve worked from home, but I find myself starting to hate sitting at my desk in my office all day. Plus the fact that it is having a negative effect on my health and weight. I’ve also been considering the landscape gardening option. (amongst others.) I’ve made good money in IT and paid my mortgage so I don’t need a highly paid job.

  45. Fair enough Paul. I’m not sure that the airlines would go for it though.

    I’m sure they’d be against Dave. As I read yesterday, airlines are run by accountants, however if there’s enough public pressure who knows?

    Perhaps I have a bias on the overpowering of a crew member because I, (being 6″3, stocky and strongly built), could overpower many people

    That’s true under ordinary circumstances however as I said earlier Dave, regardless of height and weight, someone fighting for their lives can suddenly become incredibly powerful.

  46. As I read yesterday, airlines are run by accountants, however if there’s enough public pressure who knows?

    Market forces should ensure that airlines which enforce the two in the cockpit rule will gain business at the expense of those who don’t. (posted by an accountant)

  47. If there’s sufficient demand, what’s the cost of a third crew member diluted across total seats sold? Not much.

  48. LESS THAN 48 hours after a Germanwings A320 crashed in the French Alps, and we have an explanation. It was the first officer who did it, locking the cockpit door and taking her down.

    But nine months later, there’s still no word on MH17?

    Allan@Aberdeen, on March 27th, 2015 at 12:06 AM Said:

    Paul – Why do you think that the MH17 investigation is not providing a result?

    Allan@Aberdeen, on March 27th, 2015 at 5:29 PM Said:

    Phantom – do you have a theory as to why the MH17 inquiry is releasing no conclusion?

  49. Paul – Why do you think that the MH17 investigation is not providing a result?

    I don’t know Allan. It was shot down over a conflict area? Someone wants to hide something? Aliens did it? There are X amount of potential possibilities.

    I’m sure you’ll tell us though.

  50. Paul – your effort above is typical obfuscation. The MH17 investigation is subject to a non-disclosure agreement covering Ukraine, Belgium, Holland, Australia and Malaysia, and that fact plus the fact that nothing has been released by the crash inquiry based at Farnborough, England, indicate that the conclusion is detrimental to one or more of the parties to the non-disclosure agreement: and that makes sense. You throw in the ‘aliens’ bit in order to ridicule the sensible conclusion which is that “someone wants to hide something”.

    Why didn’t you just write something equally idiotic like ‘jews control the Fed’? Oops – jews really do control the Fed.

  51. Paul – your effort above is typical obfuscation

    Obfuscation? Why do you ask a question that I can’t possibly answer and then call it obfuscation when I do comment because it doesn’t reach same conclusion as yours?

    You throw in the ‘aliens’ bit in order to ridicule the sensible conclusion which is that “someone wants to hide something”

    The aliens comment was a TIC reference to some of your more outlandish theories and if you look closely you’ll see that ‘someone wants to hide something’ is on of the possibilities I suggest.

    In short, I don’t know.

    Jews really do control the Fed.

    I suppose your referring to the thread form yesterday? Where have I ever argued that Jews haven’t proliferated the financial sector?

  52. I suspect that all evidence is that MH17 was shot down by Russia backed separatists but that this is not being publicly said at this time, as public statements of this kind might further inflame a belligerent Russia at a time when France and Germany are pushing for peaceful de-escalation of the situation.

  53. you will never see pilotless cargo or passenger aircraft in our lifetime. The planes of today already can takeoff, fly, and land completely by themselves with no human ever touching the controls.

    Liability wise flying people and cargo over populated areas without human supervision won’t be allowed in our lifetime. Over the years over 90% of airline crashes are do to mechanical failure.

    There has been quite a few problems with the automated systems over the years. We have had several flights that the computer has put the plane into a position contrary to public safety that the Human flight crews have resolved. The A320 has a glich in it’s automated systems that they have been “debating” whether or not it really exists. Once in every several 1000 hours of flight the computer for som odd reason bank hard to the right and goes into a dive.

    This glitch has been brought to the attention of the Manufacturer by several pilots and when the code was check they have yet to be able to determine any flaw. The report was dismissed until it happened either last year or the year before on an aircraft that was going through manufacturer maintenance. The manufacturer believed their own pilots while for years it dismissed Airline Pilots complaints.

    Airbus is not alone in Phantom computer problems Boeing had a random computer problem with it’s dual stick models. On completely random occasions one stick would go into a steep climb while the other would go simultaneously into a dive.

    They don’t let Trains travel without someone behind the controls to monitor and they are attached to rails on the ground in specified locations and routs, yet you believe we should trust several thousand tons of metal flying above us with no one watching the controls…. I don’t think so.

  54. Yes Phantom.

    MH17 was going from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, so that puts France and Germany right in the mix if you’ve never looked at an atlas.

    And the Western political/media nexus is clearly marked by its fear of “inflaming a belligerent Russia”. Blaming Putin for everything, including shooting down MH17, is evidence of that.

  55. Paul McMahon, on March 27th, 2015 at 9:40 PM Said:

    Why do you ask a question that I can’t possibly answer

    Paul – I asked you for an opinion in the same way that you asked me for an opinion. The only people who can close the matter are the specialists at Farnborough. As I wrote, the reasonable opinion based on the facts as we know them is that somebody who is signatory to the non-disclosure agreement doesn’t want the conclusion to be made public. Unlike Phantom who believes that Russia is to blame, I note that Russia is not a signatory to the agreement whilst Ukraine is. Furthermore, and given the generally bellicose narrative being pushed by NATO, disclosure of Russian ‘guilt’ would be manna from heaven for the warmongers whereas disclosure of Ukrainian guilt would derail the war-machine and bolster Russia’s argument that it is being baited. That’s my opinion and, in my opinion, my opinion is correct.

    Where have I ever argued that Jews haven’t proliferated the financial sector?

    Not so much a proliferation – more of an infestation. And the idea that it’s “Americans” who are in the financial sector made me smirk – it’s the ‘Chosen’ 2% of ‘Americans’ – and Israelis – who are chosen to control the Fed and banking sector. But I digress, though I’ll definitely come back to this matter.

  56. Pete

    What does an atlas have to do with France and Germany trying to reduce and maybe end a nasty conflict?

    Most media is not AFAIK accusing Putin of having any direct role in this. But he is culpable of helping an insurrectionist movement in another country – and without that support, no separatists with missiles.

    Think it through for five minutes, and even you and Allan will agree that Putin has helped create this disaster in that part of Europe.

  57. Air travel is off the charts safe these days of course, especially in the US.

    In one of the recent years there were zero deaths in large scale passenger operations.

    Let me know the next time there are zero deaths on the highways.

  58. Paul – I asked you for an opinion in the same way that you asked me for an opinion

    Which I gave with two plausible potential reasons so I’d be thankful if you withdrew the obfuscation remark.

    Not so much a proliferation – more of an infestation

    Okay, you call it and infestation, with the vermin – like connotations that that noun holds, and I’ll call it a proliferation.

  59. Phantom –

    Let me try again.

    Yes, France and Germany seem to have taken against Washington’s wish for war with Russia. However MH17 did not take off from either country, was not headed to either country and did not crash in either country. So what does France and Germany have to do with the investigation? Nothing, by rights.

    Being an American who supports both American insurrections and wars of aggressions, your objections to anything done by Putin are laughable.

  60. Pete

    No, let me try again.

    No serious person thinks that any in the US government or military supports the insane idea of war with Russia. Some in the Russian media are spinning that line, and only the extremely feeble minded in the west are falling for it. Please don’t be feeble minded anymore

    Second, the lead investigator is the Netherlands, who would be talking to the French and Germans daily, and who work closely with them on diplomatic matters in Europe and anywhere else.

    Those trying to calm Russia down may want to desist from immediately waving the bloody shirt in Putin’s face.

  61. The Troll, on March 27th, 2015 at 10:07 PM Said:

    you will never see pilotless cargo or passenger aircraft in our lifetime. The planes of today already can takeoff, fly, and land completely by themselves with no human ever touching the controls.

    They already have pilotless drones, some of them quite large. It’s just a small step to pilotless cargo planes. Many countries, including the US and UK are already making move to ensure this can proceeded unhindered. It will happen in our lifetimes Troll, mark my words.

    Liability wise flying people and cargo over populated areas without human supervision won’t be allowed in our lifetime. Over the years over 90% of airline crashes are do to mechanical failure.

    Cargo planes fly over populated areas now Troll. It makes no difference whether it’s a human or a computer at the controls. If it crashes, it crashes. And there will be less chance of that if you remove the human element.
    I don’t know where you got this 90% mechanical failure figure Troll, but it’s wrong. over 50% of crashes are down to pilot error.

    There has been quite a few problems with the automated systems over the years. We have had several flights that the computer has put the plane into a position contrary to public safety that the Human flight crews have resolved. The A320 has a glich in it’s automated systems that they have been “debating” whether or not it really exists. Once in every several 1000 hours of flight the computer for som odd reason bank hard to the right and goes into a dive………

    There will always be problems with machines and technology. This hinders progress but will not stop it. It makes no difference whether these problems occur in a plane with a pilot present or not. Many of the Airbus problems have been caused by pilots trying, (mistakenly) to override the automated systems.

    They don’t let Trains travel without someone behind the controls to monitor and they are attached to rails on the ground in specified locations and routs, yet you believe we should trust several thousand tons of metal flying above us with no one watching the controls…. I don’t think so.

    They don’t let trains travel without a driver. You might want to check that statement again Troll.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    And you’re going to see more of these automated transport systems. Not less.
    All modern planes are fly by wire. There is very little a pilot could do in the event of a systems or mechanical failure. The fact I’m making here is that planes are essentially pilotless now.

  62. Paul McMahon, on March 27th, 2015 at 8:53 PM Said:

    I don’t know Allan. It was shot down over a conflict area? Someone wants to hide something? Aliens did it?

    Paul McMahon, on March 27th, 2015 at 9:40 PM Said:
    The aliens comment was a TIC reference to some of your more outlandish theories

    Paul – would you show me some, or even one, of my “outlandish” theories?

    Phantom, on March 27th, 2015 at 10:30 PM Said:
    Most media is not AFAIK accusing Putin of having any direct role in this.

    Most media accused Putin of direct culpability, the media seen and read by most people:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697082/Twins-dear-brother-I-love-Agony-sister-British-UN-worker-Flight-MH17-crash-victims.html

    The distraught father of a brilliant maths student killed on Flight MH17 yesterday accused Vladimir Putin of his murder

  63. Daily Mirror: PUTIN’S VICTIMS

    Now, given that Putin was being accused of having direct responsibility for the shooting down of Mh17, suddenly it all stopped. Sure, we had ‘nuclear bombers over Bournemouth’ and @Hussian submarine takes fishing boat’s nets’ – unwarranted acts of aggression, but on MH17 – total silence.

  64. Allan

    You are right. Putin is such an innocent sweetie, it doesn’t really fit that he is the Russian leader. He really should be the head of state of Denmark or Norway or some other pacific gentle sovereign entity.

  65. Paul – would you show me some, or even one, of my “outlandish” theories?

    Allan, I find your theories on intelligence based on race and that Jews are conspiring to destroy western civilization extremely outlandish.

    Now most of the regular contributors on ATW along with myself have crossed swords with you regarding these subjects ad nauseam so please let’s not go around those particular mulberry bushes yet again. I have stated before on various occasions that I think that you have a paranoid obsession, (and that’s not meant as an insult, merely an observation). you are not going to convince me and I think it highly unlikely I am going to convince you.

    Now, I’d be grateful if you would draw your obfuscation remark from before.

  66. god what was I thinking Peter you are right…. you pull numbers off of a page don’t even quote the numbers honestly, but dammit you know more about this topic than the troll by gum…..

    Peter Pilot error is a category phrase if a wing falls off and the pilot doesn’t follow the exact procedures to get that aircraft on the ground that is written in the text book it is labeled pilot error.

    There are many subjects that I comment on that I am far from the most knowledgeable on the subject. This area is not one of them.

    I do want to say, if you want to believe that the majority of the problems and reason for airline crashes is human error you go right ahead. I’ve seen over the years that once you get something lodged in your head facts or information of any kind that does not agree with what you’ve decided is the truth is dismissed.

    I was a crew chief in the Air Force, (aircraft mechanic) I worked in the Airline business for over 16 yrs straight and off and on the ten years before that. I’ve ran maintenance crews, flight lines, and ground control towers. There is not an area in the Airline business that I have not worked in, but as I said you run with it sunny….

  67. Paul McMahon, on March 27th, 2015 at 8:53 PM Said:

    I don’t know Allan. It was shot down over a conflict area? Someone wants to hide something? Aliens did it?

    Paul – that is obfuscation. You were challenged and produced the rather lame “outlandish theories” excuse and when I asked you to SHOW me the outlandish theories – and I have backed and provided evidence in support of those which you cite – you merely present your opinion, which isn’t going to change even though I SHOWED that jews control media, film, money, education. Their indoctrination works – just look at you.

    Intelligence is a racial matter. Just watch this chimp-out: these are not humans.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfvk91vW8HQ

  68. Oh for Christ’s sake.

    Now most of the regular contributors on ATW along with myself have crossed swords with you regarding these subjects ad nauseam so please let’s not go around those particular mulberry bushes yet again

    Yeah, okay Allan.

  69. Allan

    The Daily Mail is not the only newspaper in the world.

    The NY Times, Wall St Journal, London Times, Telegraph, Le Monde, Der Spiegel, Singapore Straits Times, Asahi Shinbun did not have headlines saying that.

    And even that headline to your favorite newspaper did not blame Putin of direct and personal responsibility, did not claim that Russian troops shot the plane down, etc.

  70. Daily Mail: PUTIN KILLED MY SON

    And then ate a puppy, two kittens, three pet hamsters, and a whole live baby 😉

  71. Allan.

    That video, the whole lot of them probably have the collective IQ of a pickled onion.

    Evolution has been cruel to them.

  72. Noel – that’s all mild stuff compared to a chimp-out.

    Phantom – at 11.30pm was:

    Daily Mirror: PUTIN’S VICTIMS

    At 12.45am was:

    Daily Mail: PUTIN KILLED MY SON

    Here below is:

    The Sun: PUTIN’S MISSILE

    Taken together, these rags are the effective press in the UK. Newspapers in the UK are sold in shops where the headlies are displayed for people to see as they visit the shop or supermarket. These headlies are seen by everybody who enters the shop and it becomes the meme-of-the-day. Most people do not bother about the detail of the story, just the headlie because, if people did check up on the facts, these ‘newspapers’ would collapse. And so it goes around that Putin ordered MH17 to be shot down – based on the headlies and that is exactly what the headlies state.

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